Drop testing fully loaded mags on their feed lips onto concrete will show you what is toughest. I've done that with pmags and lancers, and the pmag started cracking at drop 4, with total failure at drop 7. My Lancer test mag has survived 30 (THIRTY) drops to the feed lips, along with a LOT of other abuse. I haven't been able to kill my lancer tester yet.
Simply put, Lancers are incredibly tough, and seemingly very hard to break. Durability is always a good thing. Pmags need a tiny bit of care, and minimal dropping on feed lips. That's fine with me, though. I just don't drop loaded pmags on their feed lips. With the Lancer, it's become a sport to see how much I can hammer on it.
I just watched your PMAG series, and while I don't agree 100%, I certainly respect the fact that you made a second video to correct yourself and to clarify your opinions. Thanks for the video(s).
I commented on the last video as well. Check out the new daniel defense mags. They are made for 32 rounds so you can load to 30 and load easier on a closed bolt.
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Yes be open minded is key to any progress. Test, learn from it something, improve and repeat test... never ending cycle. And I loved your test. BTW who will do it with his loved exuipment, noone, you are hero and I learned something from it, and this is the point! Just to improve myself, my equipment and my mind.
Every time a cartridge is stripped out of a polymer mag, a tiny little bit of material is going to come off from the inside of the feed lips. I prefer the G.I. aluminum mags or the Lancers. I don’t hate Pmags by any means. They are very good magazines. But for a SHTF or a WROL situation, I will use the G.I. aluminum mags or the Lancers. Aluminum is stronger than brass. I only use brass cased ammunition in my firearms. I think the aluminum mags will last a lot longer than a polymer mag.
I suppose training with less reliable magazines isn’t really that big of an issues. If anything it will probably train you to be better prepared for those malfunctions should they occur when it really matters.
People are always overthinking this stuff. What it boils down to is this, are they both fairly durable? You can drop them and they work? Both are reliable mags? Yes to both these questions? Then it boils down to which is cheaper. For some reason in the gun community everyone wants everything to last 10 zillion years and be nuke proof. Bottom line, if its durable and reliable, go for the cheaper option, if one mag fails, you got dozens more.
I don't understand why people have to get ignorant with a guy for sharing his opinion and thoughts. If you don't agree share your thoughts why, but to get ignorant and call names- really?These videos help to get a conversation going for anyone to chime in and everyone tends to learn something.Good video.
Outstanding comment! I agree totally! Also they can comment without all the foul mouth. How are we suppose to have a respectful image to the public as 2A carriers.
I treat all weapons and mags like it is only one I have, really sucks when something you have breaks and you go to get replacement and they don't have them in/sold out or they are no longer made. every gun gets cleaned before being put away and every gun gets cleaned and lubed at least once every 12 months. have several sets of mags one set loaded another not each month I unload the loaded and load the empty, I have mags for auto pistol that are over 30 years old and still work without issues with origional springs, biggest issue with loaded mags are the SPRINGS.
one thing for sure the lock up points on the P mag over time will wear out that being said it takes a heck of alot of mag changes to wear them out where with the gi mag even if it would start to wear you could probably mold the aluminum back into place to get it working again with the polymer mags once it wears out its done
I had a friend that was in Afganistan and they had some Gen 2 Pmags in their packs that were in their Humvee that got so hot the feed lips started to separate and caused feeding issues. Ever since he told me that I started stock piling USGI mags. I went to Pmags prior to this because I had bad experience with USGI mags in the past. But they were not in spec because they were used and bought during the AWB Clinton started. Since I've rebuilt them I've never had an issue besides messing up one magazines feed lips clearing a failure to chamber. Which was caused by me ripping the mag out with the cartridge half way out the mag and locking the BCG back yet it still functions 100%.
Don't worry about the haters. The guys who have useful information and who have gained knowledge through experience will share their experience willfully. The ones who are not on the path to truly improve themselves and the gun community will be douche bags and they can go fuck themselves. Keep doing your thing bro, I enjoyed the old video and got respect for you for posting this one with the corrections. You have your ego under control and it shows, those other dicks don't and it shows as well.
in a novice also and love the are platform. I have 4 and one ar pistol. I would be sure to run all you mags. you never know when they may fail. I have had some fail being new . run every ar and every mag and switch and make sure they run in every gun. That's my .02
Metal Mags so far have lasted a long time for me. I have one that's been through Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and training. It just now started to give me problems and that only problem is it not dropping free when I push the mag release button. That's it. I have a few Pmags that haven't given me any problems yet but I don't have the abuse testing and combat time like the metal mags to really stand by them yet, but so far I like both and use both
i have a buddy who has spent alot of time over in Kandahar Afghanistan and he says that the magpul mags (overtime) will weaken and eject rounds if you do not have the little covers on them to hold the rounds down in there. He does prefer the Polymer ones but only if they have the covers... if no covers... he would put them in his plate carrier upside down to help keep the rounds staying in the mag.
I bought the parts for my first AR build in December and by no means consider myself an expert. My firearm I customized and made a very expensive but functional piece of art. I bought a Pmag with it originally as I got it free with a mag wrap that fit my theme I was using on my firearm. However since then I have been using the D & H GI mags. I have never tried the Lancer mag so will not comment on it. The other 2 it comes down to personal preference like you said. Both GI and Pmag have pros and cons. However I have had zero issues with the GI mags and prefer them. Yes the polymer has some advantages as far as abuse, but I am not careless and throwing my equipment around. However from my experience parts of the Pmag are better at handling abuse, but wear out far quicker with a lot of use. So cimbined with the noticable difference in weight and the wearing out quicker with a lot of use, I prefer the Aluminum D & H GI mag. Thanks for the video, and don't worry about the trolls and haters. You are entitled to your opinions and looking at both videos you gave justification for your opinions.
Your argument as far as weight made sence to me.. Ive hiked with a 50lb pack a lot being a wildland firefighter. So if I had to cover a lot of ground on foot with my water and all the food I could carry & my Rec7.. Id certainly wish I had the best/lightest mags.
I'm of the opinion that PMags probably will hold up just as well being kept fully loaded as metal mags. I have see videos of people storing these for over 10 years ant shooting them with no issues. Let me finish with this though. I really appreciate your honesty, and willingness to correct yourself when you discover you were mistaken about something. This part 2 video is a testament to that.
You can put pmags, with dust covers on, onto a plate carrier in such a way that when you pull them out the dust cover will be stripped off. Just involves getting the right kind of pouch, the 5.11 TacTec will do it. Or just train to knock the dust cover off your mag with your rifle's rail as part of reloading. It's not hard to smack them and make the dust cover just fly off.
Josh Carter I can own a real one when I'm 21. Only 19 right now. Until I'm 21 I can only have low-capacity rifles/shotguns. Nothing that can accept a high-capacity magazine, and no handguns at all
Damn that sucks. I'm 20, but I live in Tennessee. If i had the money I could buy an m107 at 18. I'm not bragging I'm just pointing out the differences. It's sad that states like yours are going after the gun culture so much. Hopefully things will change or you'll make it to a free state one day.
What matters is what gives you peace of mind. I personally stock up on gi mags. I buy them load them and put them away. Why? Because they have a proven track record in combat I've personally used these mags in a combat situation and they just work
I only ever personally owned one bad magazine. I'll be darned if it isn't a PMAG. Nothing but stove pipe feeds. I wish I knew why. It's quite new. I don't know how to diagnose its problem past putting a red dot on it and setting it up downrange and load it that way. I have a dozen other PMAGs which seem to work fine. All my metal mags are fine including the beat to snot ones I brought back with me when I was in the service (late 80's early 90's but they're likely much older than that, possibly Vietnam era)
Not a hater, just that the gen 3 with the dust cover is made for just what you are talking about. They will pop right off, hook the tab on any thing and pull down=removed Will not corrode in long term. Just like shooting practice this move and it's easy. Only one kind of mag, with the cover or not, all interchange with the other. All can be each other, all are the same. Just makes no sense to me to have different mags for different pou's when the dust cover makes one the other. Just saying! to each his own, everyone see the same thing differently. All broken left overs are spare parts! No offense ment or taken, just works for me. GI mag's on the carry get dented, bent, and dirty inside. I only use the covers on stored preloaded mags and when the need to use is at hand the covers are disposable.
If you go to a shooting range or you just go plinking, there is no excuse for dropping a magazine on the ground. Only in a firefight would I ever let a magazine hit the ground.
"I really don't have any evidence one way or the other to say otherwise. All I'm saying is for me personally, I feel more comfortable with the steel feed lips..." Don't make life or death decisions based on your feelings. Do some actual research and listen to people who have experience. Lancer mags may be the best thing since sliced bread and are worth checking out, but warm fuzzy feelings aren't a basis for making an important decision.
You need to check pmag vs. lancer drop test video. Spoiler: The pmag lost BADLY. The pmag bottom broke first drop while in-rifle and the top-rear split open during repetitive dropping on the feed lips. The lancer kept going and fed perfectly after many drops.
Being open minded is good. But when it comes to reliability especially when it comes to firearms why would I change? Pmags have never failed me. And I have shot several hundreds rounds of the gen2 pmags. To this day, I do not own any gen3 pmags because of the fact that I have never had an issue with gen2 pmags. Steel or alum mags does not interest me because and as you stated they will bend.
I won't use PMAGs anymore either. They won't eject without physically pulling out the magazine...annoys me. C-Products magazines are cheaper and drop like USGI mags.
you bring up some good points, the only thing that I would dispute is torture test that have been done. Pmags have held up the best. The have been driven over, dropped (on every angle), shot, buried in sand, and just about everything you can think of. Just do a search on Pmags torture tests. The standard GI mags didn't do so good. Just something to think about.
whatever you do... NEVER NEVER NEVER buy Syntec Mags.... i loaded one up and laid it on my bed... went and took a piss and by the time i got back to my room it had ejected about 14 rounds out onto my bed... loaded up the other 5 syntec mags and stood there... sure enough.. every single one ejected about half the ammo...
Spend far far less time worrying about bent or broken feed lips and spend far far more time working on keeping the firearms they go to. If you have great lips and no where to put them what are you going to do then.
I feel you're a weekend enthusiast without enough trigger time to offer an opinion. Magazines are like car tires - They wear out and must be replaced. K.I.S.S. Why are you buying 4-5 different magazines then shuffling them around. A magazine is reliable or it gets tossed. Newer magazines can serve for HD or duty but a practice magazine has to step up if needed. If you train with crap magazines then your training will suffer. Crazy - No. Incredibly naive - Yes.
Drop testing fully loaded mags on their feed lips onto concrete will show you what is toughest. I've done that with pmags and lancers, and the pmag started cracking at drop 4, with total failure at drop 7. My Lancer test mag has survived 30 (THIRTY) drops to the feed lips, along with a LOT of other abuse. I haven't been able to kill my lancer tester yet.
LOL! th-cam.com/video/NpEOrTbzceo/w-d-xo.html
Simply put, Lancers are incredibly tough, and seemingly very hard to break. Durability is always a good thing.
Pmags need a tiny bit of care, and minimal dropping on feed lips. That's fine with me, though. I just don't drop loaded pmags on their feed lips. With the Lancer, it's become a sport to see how much I can hammer on it.
I just watched your PMAG series, and while I don't agree 100%, I certainly respect the fact that you made a second video to correct yourself and to clarify your opinions. Thanks for the video(s).
I commented on the last video as well. Check out the new daniel defense mags. They are made for 32 rounds so you can load to 30 and load easier on a closed bolt.
Yes be open minded is key to any progress. Test, learn from it something, improve and repeat test... never ending cycle. And I loved your test. BTW who will do it with his loved exuipment, noone, you are hero and I learned something from it, and this is the point! Just to improve myself, my equipment and my mind.
Every time a cartridge is stripped out of a polymer mag, a tiny little bit of material is going to come off from the inside of the feed lips. I prefer the G.I. aluminum mags or the Lancers. I don’t hate Pmags by any means. They are very good magazines. But for a SHTF or a WROL situation, I will use the G.I. aluminum mags or the Lancers. Aluminum is stronger than brass. I only use brass cased ammunition in my firearms. I think the aluminum mags will last a lot longer than a polymer mag.
I suppose training with less reliable magazines isn’t really that big of an issues. If anything it will probably train you to be better prepared for those malfunctions should they occur when it really matters.
People are always overthinking this stuff. What it boils down to is this, are they both fairly durable? You can drop them and they work? Both are reliable mags? Yes to both these questions? Then it boils down to which is cheaper. For some reason in the gun community everyone wants everything to last 10 zillion years and be nuke proof. Bottom line, if its durable and reliable, go for the cheaper option, if one mag fails, you got dozens more.
Just wanted to say I think your videos are great. Thanks for the Magpul FDE paint vid.
Thanks for watching!
I don't understand why people have to get ignorant with a guy for sharing his opinion and thoughts. If you don't agree share your thoughts why, but to get ignorant and call names- really?These videos help to get a conversation going for anyone to chime in and everyone tends to learn something.Good video.
Thanks!
Outstanding comment! I agree totally! Also they can comment without all the foul mouth. How are we suppose to have a respectful image to the public as 2A carriers.
I treat all weapons and mags like it is only one I have, really sucks when something you have breaks and you go to get replacement and they don't have them in/sold out or they are no longer made.
every gun gets cleaned before being put away and every gun gets cleaned and lubed at least once every 12 months.
have several sets of mags one set loaded another not each month I unload the loaded and load the empty, I have mags for auto pistol that are over 30 years old and still work without issues with origional springs, biggest issue with loaded mags are the SPRINGS.
one thing for sure the lock up points on the P mag over time will wear out that being said it takes a heck of alot of mag changes to wear them out
where with the gi mag even if it would start to wear you could probably mold the aluminum back into place to get it working again with the polymer mags once it wears out its done
I had a friend that was in Afganistan and they had some Gen 2 Pmags in their packs that were in their Humvee that got so hot the feed lips started to separate and caused feeding issues. Ever since he told me that I started stock piling USGI mags.
I went to Pmags prior to this because I had bad experience with USGI mags in the past. But they were not in spec because they were used and bought during the AWB Clinton started. Since I've rebuilt them I've never had an issue besides messing up one magazines feed lips clearing a failure to chamber. Which was caused by me ripping the mag out with the cartridge half way out the mag and locking the BCG back yet it still functions 100%.
th-cam.com/video/NpEOrTbzceo/w-d-xo.html
Don't worry about the haters. The guys who have useful information and who have gained knowledge through experience will share their experience willfully. The ones who are not on the path to truly improve themselves and the gun community will be douche bags and they can go fuck themselves. Keep doing your thing bro, I enjoyed the old video and got respect for you for posting this one with the corrections. You have your ego under control and it shows, those other dicks don't and it shows as well.
Thanks man.
in a novice also and love the are platform. I have 4 and one ar pistol. I would be sure to run all you mags. you never know when they may fail. I have had some fail being new . run every ar and every mag and switch and make sure they run in every gun. That's my .02
Metal Mags so far have lasted a long time for me. I have one that's been through Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and training. It just now started to give me problems and that only problem is it not dropping free when I push the mag release button. That's it. I have a few Pmags that haven't given me any problems yet but I don't have the abuse testing and combat time like the metal mags to really stand by them yet, but so far I like both and use both
The Larson's magazine is the best available. Magpul hasn't paid attention to the competition.
i have a buddy who has spent alot of time over in Kandahar Afghanistan and he says that the magpul mags (overtime) will weaken and eject rounds if you do not have the little covers on them to hold the rounds down in there. He does prefer the Polymer ones but only if they have the covers... if no covers... he would put them in his plate carrier upside down to help keep the rounds staying in the mag.
Boyd Crowder loaded mags are always carried rounds down.
be sure to get some..20 round USGI mags....they work great for shooting Prone...all metal.
I bought the parts for my first AR build in December and by no means consider myself an expert. My firearm I customized and made a very expensive but functional piece of art. I bought a Pmag with it originally as I got it free with a mag wrap that fit my theme I was using on my firearm.
However since then I have been using the D & H GI mags. I have never tried the Lancer mag so will not comment on it. The other 2 it comes down to personal preference like you said. Both GI and Pmag have pros and cons. However I have had zero issues with the GI mags and prefer them. Yes the polymer has some advantages as far as abuse, but I am not careless and throwing my equipment around. However from my experience parts of the Pmag are better at handling abuse, but wear out far quicker with a lot of use. So cimbined with the noticable difference in weight and the wearing out quicker with a lot of use, I prefer the Aluminum D & H GI mag.
Thanks for the video, and don't worry about the trolls and haters. You are entitled to your opinions and looking at both videos you gave justification for your opinions.
Ya, you waded into some shark infested waters with that first video...
Your argument as far as weight made sence to me.. Ive hiked with a 50lb pack a lot being a wildland firefighter. So if I had to cover a lot of ground on foot with my water and all the food I could carry & my Rec7.. Id certainly wish I had the best/lightest mags.
New to ars. I was curious on why people write letters and numbers on mags. Is it to identify them?
I'm of the opinion that PMags probably will hold up just as well being kept fully loaded as metal mags. I have see videos of people storing these for over 10 years ant shooting them with no issues. Let me finish with this though. I really appreciate your honesty, and willingness to correct yourself when you discover you were mistaken about something. This part 2 video is a testament to that.
To each their own, I stockpile both Pmags and D&H mags when I find those ridiculously cheep sales. Carry on.
You can put pmags, with dust covers on, onto a plate carrier in such a way that when you pull them out the dust cover will be stripped off. Just involves getting the right kind of pouch, the 5.11 TacTec will do it. Or just train to knock the dust cover off your mag with your rifle's rail as part of reloading. It's not hard to smack them and make the dust cover just fly off.
that would be upside down and hook the pouch top when removing and pop, good to go. Just saying.
I'm just watching this video wishing I could own an AR-15 lol, living in MA sucks at times.
ur profile pic is irrelevant then, loo
You can own a neutered one can't you?
I'm from MA. You can own an AR15. I have one.
Josh Carter I can own a real one when I'm 21. Only 19 right now. Until I'm 21 I can only have low-capacity rifles/shotguns. Nothing that can accept a high-capacity magazine, and no handguns at all
Damn that sucks. I'm 20, but I live in Tennessee. If i had the money I could buy an m107 at 18. I'm not bragging I'm just pointing out the differences. It's sad that states like yours are going after the gun culture so much. Hopefully things will change or you'll make it to a free state one day.
What matters is what gives you peace of mind. I personally stock up on gi mags. I buy them load them and put them away. Why? Because they have a proven track record in combat I've personally used these mags in a combat situation and they just work
I only ever personally owned one bad magazine. I'll be darned if it isn't a PMAG. Nothing but stove pipe feeds. I wish I knew why. It's quite new. I don't know how to diagnose its problem past putting a red dot on it and setting it up downrange and load it that way. I have a dozen other PMAGs which seem to work fine. All my metal mags are fine including the beat to snot ones I brought back with me when I was in the service (late 80's early 90's but they're likely much older than that, possibly Vietnam era)
iv never used them, but have you looked into the hex mags???
made me check the dust covers of my pmags.....mine are so easy to remove...did pmag send me special dust covers?
I'm getting pack into GI mags, they're much better than they were 20 years ago. Now if only the Russian aluminum waffle mags were that cheap
when numbering your magazines, why did you start every single one with 0?
stay away from tapco mags. even for sks? because i was planning on gettin a couple of their duckbills.
Not a hater, just that the gen 3 with the dust cover is made for just what you are talking about.
They will pop right off, hook the tab on any thing and pull down=removed
Will not corrode in long term. Just like shooting practice this move and it's easy.
Only one kind of mag, with the cover or not, all interchange with the other. All can be each other, all are the same.
Just makes no sense to me to have different mags for different pou's when the dust cover makes one the other.
Just saying! to each his own, everyone see the same thing differently. All broken left overs are spare parts!
No offense ment or taken, just works for me.
GI mag's on the carry get dented, bent, and dirty inside. I only use the covers on stored preloaded mags and when the need to use is at hand the covers are disposable.
If you go to a shooting range or you just go plinking, there is no excuse for dropping a magazine on the ground. Only in a firefight would I ever let a magazine hit the ground.
"I really don't have any evidence one way or the other to say otherwise. All I'm saying is for me personally, I feel more comfortable with the steel feed lips..."
Don't make life or death decisions based on your feelings. Do some actual research and listen to people who have experience. Lancer mags may be the best thing since sliced bread and are worth checking out, but warm fuzzy feelings aren't a basis for making an important decision.
You need to check pmag vs. lancer drop test video.
Spoiler: The pmag lost BADLY.
The pmag bottom broke first drop while in-rifle and the top-rear split open during repetitive dropping on the feed lips.
The lancer kept going and fed perfectly after many drops.
Being open minded is good. But when it comes to reliability especially when it comes to firearms why would I change? Pmags have never failed me. And I have shot several hundreds rounds of the gen2 pmags. To this day, I do not own any gen3 pmags because of the fact that I have never had an issue with gen2 pmags. Steel or alum mags does not interest me because and as you stated they will bend.
Did I miss something? Dude be empirical, opinions are like you know..
I won't use PMAGs anymore either. They won't eject without physically pulling out the magazine...annoys me. C-Products magazines are cheaper and drop like USGI mags.
that's sounds like a lower receiver problem, if you get a high end lower you won't or shouldn't have this problem.
Ditto on Standing On 2nd comments!!
you bring up some good points, the only thing that I would dispute is torture test that have been done. Pmags have held up the best. The have been driven over, dropped (on every angle), shot, buried in sand, and just about everything you can think of. Just do a search on Pmags torture tests. The standard GI mags didn't do so good. Just something to think about.
th-cam.com/video/NpEOrTbzceo/w-d-xo.html
iraqveteran8888 has the best mag torcher test I have seen yet to date. watch and base your own opinion.
th-cam.com/video/NpEOrTbzceo/w-d-xo.html
Can someone get a count on how many times this guy says the word "lips" in this video
Steel is better!!!!!!
whatever you do... NEVER NEVER NEVER buy Syntec Mags.... i loaded one up and laid it on my bed... went and took a piss and by the time i got back to my room it had ejected about 14 rounds out onto my bed... loaded up the other 5 syntec mags and stood there... sure enough.. every single one ejected about half the ammo...
Your more likely to drop your mags under stress.
P&S slammed me for saying things that they have said in the past. Seriously. I posted one video there and I'll never do so again.
Yeah I posted 4 videos there on this topic. They slammed me hard on all four. It got ridiculous. I lost all respect for those guys.
They have some good info, but the ego there keeps a lot of people from interacting with them.
Spend far far less time worrying about bent or broken feed lips and spend far far more time working on keeping the firearms they go to. If you have great lips and no where to put them what are you going to do then.
I feel you're a weekend enthusiast without enough trigger time to offer an opinion. Magazines are like car tires - They wear out and must be replaced. K.I.S.S. Why are you buying 4-5 different magazines then shuffling them around. A magazine is reliable or it gets tossed. Newer magazines can serve for HD or duty but a practice magazine has to step up if needed. If you train with crap magazines then your training will suffer. Crazy - No. Incredibly naive - Yes.
th-cam.com/video/NpEOrTbzceo/w-d-xo.html
you cant just go on the internet and give your opinion! people will threaten your life for that. lol
I say.... Screw the mags. Load the bullets one at a time...…..No need for mags. Just my option