How To Bore Your Audience - Holmes and Watson
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Holmes and Watson is quite arguably the worst comedy of all time, but why is it such an unbelievably bad movie? In this video essay I dissect one of it's key failings, that being an abundant use of cliché. This video is a deep dive into the topic of cliché, asking why cliches are so deadly for the quality of your work...
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All music used (apart from galaxy quest theme) is from epidemic sound.
Hey guys, today's video is a bit experimental so I hope you enjoyed it. Do let me know if you like the fact I've not only covered film/tv lately, but also video games and prose. If this video gets a good response I'll continue to cover a broad range of fiction, as well as less of my face, in my essays.
The reason why I haven't uploaded in a whole month is because I've been working away pretty hard on my debut sci-fi novel which I am beyond excited to put out in the world and for you guys to read. I was told to keep any standalone novels of that type to no more than 90k words... well I'm at 140k right now, and I still haven't finished ;D
The truth is I enjoy making these videos, they're good fun and it's encouraging to see people watching these and genuinely learning things from them, and also you know, money is nice. But back in the day when I just made these videos and nothing else, I felt kind of hollow creatively. It was just this feeling that all I was doing with my life was simply commenting on other people's work and it was so unfulfilling, I don't just make these videos on how to be a better writer for the kicks, I am trying to make myself a better writer as well so I can tell some good stories myself. Besides, how can I give out writing advice if I never write myself?
My life goal, or at least where I hope to be in five years, is writing my novels with my right hand, while also I run this channel with my left. So if, when my novel comes out (in 6 months or so), you guys support me, I just want you do know that would mean the world to me and quite seriously make my dreams come true... wait, I used a cliche...
Dammit!
Anyway, have a great day :)
- Henry
How much does the sci-fi novel cost? And what's it about?
Well it's a dystopian one, in the coming months I will give out the blurb and entice people like that, but I feel it's a tad too early to say exactly what the plot's about. As for price, I plan to sell it as an ebook for $4 each, and as paperback for around $13 or so :)
@@TheCloserLook I know you make quality content,be it books or videos,so I'll be sure to check it out
Gotta admit, that *was* a pretty clean segway.
Keep Working hard!! We’re supporting you along the way!
The only time I’ve ever really thought the “paper-thin disguise” cliche was done in a clever and funny way was with Dr. Doofenshmirtz and Perry the Platapus
That show was a gem
Luma Eh, I liked it initially, but over time, I just became annoyed how often the jokes became repeated to the point where they weren’t funny any more. That, and the characters were just kinda... blah.
And I just grew out of the show.
It’s such a great tv show
I liked its use in Series of Unfortunate Events
@@TF2Fan101 the point is they reuse the same tropes but manage to present them in a new way each time
Holmes and Watson is so bad, that a critic on rotten tomatoes straight up said "Holmes & Watson is bad." Usually they give some fancy explanation.
@Jani Akujärvi good one.
@Jani Akujärvi as a poc, go away!! go back to your circle jerk pit on tumblr and don't come back, us rational people really don't like you!! you don't help, at all! just,,, revoke your typing privileges until you gain a little more common sense.
Leo B usually they try to explain their opinion on why the movie’s bad but in this case everyone could just look at the review “Holmes &Watson is bad” and go yep
Jani Akujärvi judging by your name you think the world owes you something and that white people owe you something
No one owes you anything
Because you can’t get a job or become a member of society because you go to anti white parades
White privilege is non existent
I’m not white and I have a job, a wife,a house,a future son and an actual life
You should go outside,quit tumblr AND GET A LIFE
To say that a movie "deserves to fail" because the casting isn't "inclusive" enough is rather silly and juvenile. It's low hanging fruit and cheap, easy bait. There's plenty of good films where many or most of the characters are one race. There's plenty of bad films that are "diverse" in casting. I find it hard to believe that people who think this shallow are in any way capable of any actual thought.
Such comments may be cute and charming on cesspool sites like TUMBLR, but here they are oddly reminiscent of the high school's class clown on his first day of college. Everyone here is here because they want to see what the content creator has to teach, and no one is interested in your silly virtue-signaling. It will win you no brownie points here.
Video: how to bore your audience
Me: (sees the video duration) i'm scared
Have you ever watched a Mauler video?
@@VvazMHNY
Frankly, Mauler's videos feel like they are 10 times shorter. All because the material is very well researched, thought-out and presented, with some decent quality humour on top.
@@Gyvulys Homour as in the author of the Illiad or the Simpson?
Just messing with you lol
AmIgOltu I see we have a man of culture. Someone well informed. hello there
@@noahcorleone1473
And greetings to you as well.
@Commenting Commenter
There, I believe I've typed that decently now.
THAT was the funniest joke in the movie? Oh dear.
I'm scared.
Me too
I think you mean 'Oh deer' :D
I mean, the snapshot timing was pretty solid for Holmes turning around, it was just Wattson's reaction afterwards that ruined it.
If he'd just stared, absolutely unconvinced and played the straight man, I daresay it might actually have gotten a chuckle out of me.
2:50 oh god, I almost laughed when I saw him with the mustache but they ruined it immediately
I have a stutter and terrible comedic timing and I couldn't kill a joke that fast if I tried
Same, mustache almost got me then they went and killed the moment.
Same. I got so disappointed by the delivery.
Same happened to me
@Anonymous Cheesestick honestly I think it would have landed better if Wattson had played a straight man and just kinda deadpan stares at him.
Still cliche, but the timing of the moustache DID get me, it's just the transition to Wattson's reaction that killed it before I could really get into the humor.
"She froze, like a deer being snap-frozen in liquid nitrogen..."
Alright, that's great.
I like it.
ok, Mr. Freeze
PSIPagliacci, HEY! CHIIILLL OUT!
Well it did make me chuckle. good job.
The first and only time I “watched” this movie I was in extreme pain, why I didn’t get medical help is a story for another time, but let’s just say I was in the worst pain of my life when my parents put this movie on, and left me be. I couldn’t get up and move to get away from this horrific movie, and I couldn’t move to get the remote. I hated every moment. This movie made the agony of going through the pain I was already experiencing SO much worse. Basically, you could say I was tortured.
Can we put that as a part in the Geneva Convention?
"Under no circumstances can you put a person in severe pain through the added agony of 'Holmes and Watson' and 'Batman and Robin' as doing so is deemed a cruel, unusual, and unnecessary form of torture".
Simple explanation:
Cliche is an overused phrase
A trope is a recurring theme
Depends on what you define as a theme. To me a trope can't be a theme.
@@benfly-rinker6924 What do you think I meant when I said what I said
fight fight fight
a trope isn't a recurring theme you dullard
A cliche is an overused phrase, plot device, metaphor, or similar.
A trope is a recurring phrase, plot device, metaphor, or similar.
A cliche is a trope that has been done to death and lost its power.
I can only think of one show that uses chliches in a good way and that’s Phineas And Ferb
Phineas and Ferb has a very ironic style of humor that pokes fun at itself similar to the simpsons.
The show is so self-aware it’s impossible not to love it. The entire gimmick of the show is that the same formula happens day in and day out.
i agree. the paper thin disguise thing with Doof and Perry is downright hilarious
Imagine having this cast and wasting it so spectacularly!
Love this video, as always :)
I actually never thought of Fiennes for Moriarti, but it’s actually perfect casting. And it was utterly wasted on a piece of shit movie like that, we’ll never see him as the real character. That’s one of the film’s biggest crimes.
Yep felt bad for the cadting they dont deserve this as scsthing their record
Imagine having a terrible cast of cringey, unfunny actors,
who are well past their heyday, paired with bad writing & having it predictably fail.
You don't even have to imagine... you could just (skip the sleeping pills and) watch Holmes & Watson.
I mainly meant about the supporting cast. I'm not a fan of Will Ferrell either
There is a fun trick I like using cliche's for in my writing. When you really want your reader to pay close attention to a detail or moment in the story, I precede it with a small cliche to make the reader roll their eyes a bit. I then subvert the cliche in someway, snapping the readers attention fully back into what's happening in the story.
He stared like a deer watching a movie
I don't know what I expected from a film that found screaming funny
Im your 100th like
You think this is bad, try Step Brothers. Ferrell and Reilly do these painfully unfunny comedies on a regular basis. My brother and I literally couldn't even finish it, it was like an Adam Sandler movie with a slightly bigger budget.
@@Antiformed lmao I loved Stepbrother back then.....weird
Antiform are you serious? Step Brothers is a fuckin classic. How old are you?
Antiform what the fuck stepbrothers is hilarious
I have to disagree, a cliche is not bad in of itself but how it is implemented within a narrative.
That's why he differentiates between cliché and trope. A trope can be implented within a narrative in original ways, whereas a cliché can't (going by his definition).
Your definition of cliché seems to be his definition of trope, and in that sense, you're on the same side.
@@aminahm4911 So you say but I do not think we are as Trope and Cliche are, far as I can tell, basically the same thing so if one can be used then so can the other. At least that's how I see it as according to the definitions I find in a dictionary.
@@pixelmayhem1143 I see tropes as something more general whereas cliches are so specific that you can't really do anything with them other than copy them straight, with a little modification, or use them to subvert the audience's expectations. A strong, badass female character is a trope: tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionGirl. A mysterious character hidden in shadow or wearing a mask / something to conceal their identity shows up suddenly and destroys several baddies that were giving the main character(s) trouble only for a dramatic revelation that *gasp* the badass character everyone assumed is a dude is actually a lady. - That's cliche. The first is used in many stories to great effect (ex. Alien, Kill Bill) the second just makes me sigh, roll my eyes, and turn on something else. (ex. The LEGO Movie, 9 )
I absolutely agree!! Like the “It was a dark and stormy night” cliche is one of the most efficient ways to establish a mood or a theme, and provides an excellent gateway into satire. The problem with cliches are when the author uses them as a crutch, rather than a vehicle to tell their story.
4:06
A movie so bad NetFlix wouldn't even touch it...and they green-lit The Ridiculous 6
ctastrophe well ridiculous 6 is ok if you watch it high
OCEAN Man so is peppa pig
I love ridiculous 6
@Guybrush Threepweed There is ONE good scene starring John Turturro later in the flick which is a play on the origins of Baseball. It was a moment that made me think the writing staff had a decent joke idea that had nothing to do with the rest of the movie but was creative enough to shoe-horn in. It was too "clever" for the rest of the movie, so I'm not sure how it made the final cut
ctastrophe I mean Ridiculous 6 is actually decent though
I literally just read Orwell’s essay that you mentioned in the video for my English class. I was connecting a lot of what you said to the essay and got really excited when you mentioned it.
Sorry, that was completely random but I thought it was pretty cool
Phineas and Ferb actually made fun of the Paper thin disguise cliche:
(Perry shows up without fedora)
Doofenshmirtz: A platypus
(Perry puts on fedora)
Doofenshmirtz: PERRY THE PLATYPUS?!
To me, that is just usage of it
Thats just using the cliche bud
@@SpyroTheGerudo Yeah but the whole point of the show was to make fun of cliches. The characters were always so self aware. That's why it was funny.
@@silverstarlightproductions1292 at the same time, the show fell into a formula that acted as its own cliche.
Even if it made fun of cliches that have been done before, the show does more or less the same things at the same times. At least for me, that example where Perry isnt recognized by Doofenschmirtz without his fedora is just using the cliche, which doesnt help that the show is tiring because of its formula.
I am likely missing what made that show so popular, so dont take my response as "this show is bad". I just wanted to point out that as a show that is built around playing with cliches, the concept wont always work
@@SpyroTheGerudo The reason Phineas and Ferb is so popular is because the show is a cliche. The point of the show is that everyone is a cliche, and the episodes all play out with the same general formula with a unique spin on it everytime. Doofenshmirtz is the mad scientist with the over the top, tragic backstory. Phineas and Ferbs' parents are the cliche clueless parents from movies and tv that are completely oblivious to what their kids are doing. Baljeet is the cliche of a nerd whose life revolves around school, and Beauford is the cliche bully who, for seemingly no reason, has a vendetta against the need character. You can go on and on with the show.
I can't quite remeber who it was, but someone compared the cliche of Phineas and Ferb with the show Milo Murphy's Law by the same people who created Phineas and Ferb. This show, unlike Phineas and Ferb, breaks cliches constantly. Things don't go the protagonist's way, the characters grow and develop, and the series has an overarching story. 2 shows by the same creators, but they are completely opposite of each other conceptually.
I'd say that the cliche is in the execution, being cliche just means that your execution is not original, and not that the idea itself can't be used in a unique way.
even then its not necessarily bad.
Superheroes being motivated by someones death IS a cliche, it's not original and it it's self doesnt help with originality, but it is still a good motivator for said heroes.
It is still a good story element
@@fairystail1 no it's a trope. You can freshen it up, by having the dead character mean something to the character and the audience. What is cliché is having the parents be dead just so they're not on the teenage character's back when they go on adventures.
@@maximeteppe7627 no having the characters death be the motivation is a cliche
having the parents be dead just so the story doesn't have to worry about responsible parents is a trope
@@fairystail1 It is very debatable. It all depends on the motivation rather than what caused it. Sure, if the character's goal is to avenge, you just ripped off batman. If they learn to be responsible instead, you got Peter Parker. But I wouldn't give up on finding other interesting ways the parent's death impacts the motivations of the character.
Where you are right is that there is room for good storytelling in absent parents. In Harrry Potter, not having loving parents greatly informs harry's relationship with Ron . The impact of the parent's death on his psychology is explored in myriads of ways. It also feeds into his relationship with Voldemort, but he would still hate Voldy's guts regardless. It's more of a complicating element to their duality.
Isn't calling the price on the internet service who sponsors you "an absolute steal" a...cliche?
It may have been on purpose.
Are you alive Sir
Yes, as is saying that his segue was "so clean you could eat off it".
@@beholdandfearme Pretty sure it was deliberate.
I'm literally dying from laughing.
"That person... is wrong" best part of this video.
Who is "That person", anyway?
I swear i saw the podcast his referring to... as i listen to something like it last month or so. But not sure it was mauler or criticaldrinker... i'll browse ard until someone answers it.
Red Pilgrim It’s not MauLer, I’m an EFAP scholar, he isn’t that dumb.
@@jandcstopmotion7774 I'm firing off into the air though, I just couldn't recall who I've watched, based on that topic.
I doubt MauLer would’ve said that, but I don’t think Critical Drinker’s that dumb, either…
Getting lost in the weeds of your hypothetical here, but "snapped his head around like a deer in headlights" and "snapped his head around to see a face scowling in the doorway" end up giving very different mental images, and I much prefer the first version. The emphasis on his dazed reaction is much more evocative than immediately describing what he sees.
You're correct that I didn't literally picture a deer in headlights, but I don't see that as a problem here. The cliche in this case tells me more about him, what he's doing, what is and isn't going through his head. The phrase only felt clunky to me because "head" and "headlights" are so close together in the sentence, and because you'd already made a big stink about "a deer in headlights" earlier in the vid, making it stick out more than it otherwise would.
All in all, I agree it's extremely important to be mindful of using tropes and cliches (wherever you decide to split that particular hair), but I disagree with your blanket condemnation of them.
Zack Bogucki also might I point out that Bumblebee, My little pony, Shazam and the goldbergs night as well be TvTropes in celluloid form and people like those just fine
I think it more has to do with charm, earnestness, nuance as well as general execution of an idea
Then again I haven’t consumed nearly as much media as anyone else here
I actually made a comment similar to yours
This is an incredibly late reply, but I agree. I think Deer in the headlights works because it ends up using the cliche as a tool to convey a very specific meaning. Cliches are dangerous because they often have a very specific connotation to them, which can override what you had in mind for a scene, but in a case like this, they can also end up acting like a type of shorthand that can convey more information through less words, so long as the cliche's connotation actually fits.
The way I would illustrate just how much cliches skip over would have been to re-write the paragraph to describe the internal dialogue of the character going through the deer in the headlights moment. Something like,
"Immediately, light blasted down and stung his sensitive eyes, making him nearly slip and smash his head on the chair. Steve slammed his hand down on the table and, once he'd regained his footing, swung around to face the doorway, staggering in place. It was his wife, he realized, and froze as panic trickled through his drunken haze. She glared at the vomit on his shirt, then the bottle in his hand, and he knew he should explain himself, but his mind was stuck struggling against the liquor he'd numbed it with. Instead, he watched mutely as his chance slipped away and his wife disappeared back down the hall."
calm down
There's the idea that these cliches are in the usage of language, effective shorthand. There is a point where something that's cliche becomes so ubiquitous that it becomes normal phraseology and a standard part of language. So while not using them may be original and creative, using them may simply be the shortest route from point A to B. There's something to be said for linguistic efficiency. Darmok.
Though interesting, I feel like you missed the mark on this one. Trope, cliche, and stereotypes in storytelling vary in quality based on what they reveal about the human condition. Is what they reveal shallow or does it have depth? The problem with the use of tropes, cliche, and stereotypes is that they are often referential to other stories and media. Their overuse neutralizes their meaning. This can be seen in an overused needle drop or in the words, "I love you." "I love you" is the most cliche line of text in the human language, but at the right moment, it can still be used to great effect.
"I love you"
"I know"
Just because TV tropes has 'a whole article' on something doesn't mean that that thing is cliche. TV tropes has pages long articles for every conceivable idea in a movie. This is not an exaggeration.
There is no TV tropes article about the Torture Dance, despite the fact that it's the greatest scene in animation history.
9:13 BBC's Sherlock, Moriarty: "I will burn you, I will burn the heart out of you"
I can hear that in his voice lmao
I thought the eye glass thing on the video thumbnail was a loading circle for a good 10 seconds because I am an idiot.
You made me laugh, thanks XD
The Closer Look :D
"Eye glass thing"...you mean a magnifying glass? :P
Phi Dang yesh
A trope is a commonly recurring storytelling element. For instance, a seasoned criminal who has to pull off one last job is a trope. Or, on a smaller scale, a seasoned character proving their superiority by staying cool and simply explaining why their enemy will not succeed ("you've still got the safety on"), is a trope. It's impossible to consider tropes bad, because it's practically impossible to avoid tropes. And there's no reason to, because tropes are more like a toolkit. They tend to communicate values we understand. In the examples, those are desperation and confidence. And the point of literally all fiction is to make an appeal to the values of the audience.
A cliché is simply something that has been done so often that the audience can predict the outcome through experience. For instance, a person hastily traveling to the train/boat/airplane their lover is bound to take to never return, music swelling in the background. Or a person serenading their lover beneath their window. Clichés are more slippery, because they arise through use. And often they are also subverted. That's the term you were looking for, BTW: Subversion. That is, to build expectations based on the audience's experience of other works, only to then do something unexpected that plays with those expectations. Take our earlier example, and it would be the person being tackled by security before they even reach their lover. That's funny, because it's unexpected, but also because it's updated for modern times, and the audience SHOULD expect it to happen. The nature of a good subversion is that they apply logic to a cliché that, through overuse, has become illogical. After all, how many bombs do you expect to be diffused at the last second? And do we really expect them to blow up?
Of course, once subverted, and the subversion becoming popular, that subversion stands a chance of itself being repeated, and becoming cliché. Serenading one's lover has been subverted countless times, and one of those subversion has the character standing there with a boombox over his head. This quickly became such an iconic scene that dozens of other productions have mimicked it, and playing it straight today will make you look like an unoriginal hack.
And in conclusion, I don't think it's the presence of cliché that makes Holmes and Watson bad. After all, I don't think it's a cliché to knock out the queen and try to stuff her in a trunk while accidentally making it look like you're introducing your own royal member to her. But what it is, is very, very lazy. Every scene I've seen of this film breathes laziness. And that's why it's filled with lots of clichés played straight. It's a reference humor movie based on a well known character that recently had a resurgence. It's another one of those American movies set in Europe where actual European actors get some bit parts. It's got Will Ferrell in it. What's the last funny thing he has done? Anchorman? You know, the movie with a massive supporting cast of talented comedic actors? If I had to pick one representative of the absolute depths of American comedy, I would pick Will Ferrell. If you get that man into a room with something funny, you'll get pure energy conversion, is what I'm saying.
As for that dude who plays Holmes, well, he was funnier in Star Trek Voyager.
I was crossing the street while watching this and, like a deer in headlights, I got hit by a car
After 15 minutes about cliches, apologizes for “going down the rabbit hole.” Totally meta. Lol.
😂🤣🏁
Team America's take on the paper-thin disguise works for me because it's a good joke hiding in a cliche. The joke is that the disguise is so horribly done that it would cause MORE attention than a paper-thin one, but it works anyway because of course it does.
My parents rented it and I refused to come out of my room and watch it with them
DirectorG I love that
same here
Effing relatable
Surprised to know that people still rent...
@@VoidWatchers I found the guy who gets invited to ALL the parties, everyone.
I really enjoyed this analysis, and I think you raise some very valid points. However, I think this mindset should be approached with great caution; the absolute refusal to ever use cliches under any circumstance can be almost as poisonous to your writing as the unrefined overuse of cliches. Cliches, like anything else in writing, are a tool. Used in moderation and with care, they can be extremely effective. It is not the cliche itself that creates the problem, but rather the careless or flippant use of that cliche. To put it another way, saying that cliches make your writing bad is like saying that spoons make people fat. It isn't the spoon's fault, but rather the fault of the person using it.
Now, it's all well and good to say that, but what is the actual proper use of a cliche, and what does it bring to the table as a tool? The primary benefit of a well-used cliche is *familiarity*. There are many cases in which finding a fancy, unique way of writing a particular phrase would be a distraction from the intended tone or flow of a piece; in these cases, it can be beneficial to give your readers a familiar reference point in the form of a cliche, so as to not pull them out of that flow. The nondescript familiarity of a cliche, when used carefully and intentionally, can be exactly the right choice for a given situation rather than a detractor from the quality of the writing. It's much the same concept as negative space in art, or rests in music - while certainly the most distinctive and unique parts of a piece are going to stand out the most and make that piece memorable, the surrounding parts have to fade into the background somewhat to allow those peaks to truly shine. Without that breathing room, you end up with little more than a muddled, incoherent mess.
Cliches can also be useful to set up an intentional subversion or parody, as you yourself pointed out. For example, one of the most memorable scenes in The Incredibles comes from the age-old cliche of the supervillain monologue - Syndrome begins waxing poetic about his evil plans, as supervillains are wont to do, leaving Mr. Incredible the perfect opportunity to slip to the side and lauch a surprise attack... only for the attack to be foiled immediately to the tune of the now classic line, "You sly dog! You got me monologuing!" I'd highly recommend NerdSync's video, "The Incredibles: The Art of Supervillain Monologues" for a more in-depth exploration of this particular cliche, both for subversion and as a writing tool in and of itself.
Above all, it's important to remember that cliches are not cliches because they're inherently bad. They're cliches because they're (arguably) overused, and used sloppily - and they're overused because they're extremely useful to begin with. With care and moderation, cliches can be an extremely powerful tool in a writer's toolbox, and writing them off as inherently bad or something to be avoided at all costs in all circumstances is a dangerous mindset to hold. When it comes to artistic expression, there is no such thing as an absolute like "cliches are always bad"; you should find the tools that work best for you in a given situation, and use them as effectively as you can. If you're not confident that you can make effective use of a cliche, then don't use a cliche, but don't let yourself fall into the trap of believing that it's impossible to use one effectively.
'I bet you didn't even imagine a deer in headlights'
Me: *sweats profusely*
'You don't imagine a "wooow, a fate worse than deaaath?'
Me: *continues to sweat profusely*
Cliches are useful when they are subverted and it isn't done enough imo
For example,
In the movie Red Eye the antagonist is hiding in a house and the main character is hesitantly opening a door where she thinks he is.
Normally in a scene like this she would fling open the door to find nothing and he would magically show up behind her but instead he's right there.
It's one of the few times I saw a jumpscare actually surprise the audience
Something interesting that I've heard about clichés is that they are just tropes that the person who is analyzing them sees as cliché. Basically there are no hard and fast clichés, it's entirely up to interpretation, and just because some tropes are so common and heavily used doesn't mean they are by definition a cliché. Food for thought
"Avoid cliche like the plague." Christopher Hitchens
I don’t know Bumblebee is tv tropes in celluloid form and it’s one of my favorite movie of all time
That was one of the smoothest Nord transitions I've ever seen.
'Wicked sick Nord Transition, brah!' - Some human.
Oversimplified Cold War 1
C'mon, "...so clean you could just eat your dinner off it" is simply cliché!
I actually started to clap when he switched
When I first saw this movie I thought it would be a funny twist on the story of Sherlock homes because I find the lead actors to be funny and in other movies they’re in together they’re great together but I just got up and walked away from this movie about 12 minutes in
Will Ferrell hasn't been funny since that cat skit.
A cliché approaches something familiar in a familiar way. It doesn't activate the imagination because the audience already has a referent for it. We get no new information.
The _opposite_ of cliché approaches something familiar in a new, novel way. It tells us something we don't already know. It makes the audience reassess their understanding of what they thought, and it's exciting.
I watched Holmes and Watson but when I saw the title of this video, I had to think, “Did I watch this movie?” I legit couldn’t remember. That’s not a good sign.
You made a video about boring your audience interesting. Impressive.
Video Title: How to bore an audience.
Me: The Expert.
Breaking my arm was funnier than what I´ve seen from this movie
I think it goes like this: if the premise is all you need to know what will happen next, that’s a clichè.
So for example, when you see a bomb with a timer in a movie, you know without shadow of a doubt that it’s going to be disarmed at the last second, or at the very least explode while the protagonist takes cover at the last second. Because you predicted the outcome it’s not enjoying to watch, and that’s what makes it a clichè. However if the bomb really went off and killed the main protagonist, now THAT would be something not clichè, because i’ve never seen something like that happen. So a trope can become a clichè when it’s been used so many times that it plays out exactly like you would expect.
(If i made any mistakes, english is not my first language)
Are some cliches not events?
At first i thought that the boredom was the treatment of Holmes and Watson's relationship. I was getting upset a bit.
Then, I realized that movie exists. That makes me angry. And sad as well.
I'd file the Galaxy-Quest example under parody of a cliche. Parody like that tends to work well for moments of comedy: someone ends up in a deer costume, ends up in a road, sees a light, freezes in shock, and gets hit by a car.
They can also work for moments of shock -- people are trying to defuse a bomb while the timer ticks down, but the bomb blows in half the time that the audience and characters expect. A moment like that probably needs an explanation after the fact, like an antagonist remarking that they "watch movies too" (that setup and quote happen to be from a filler moment in an NCIS episode)
MY GOD WATSON! I SPOT A BOY CLITTY!
What's your iFunny
I was looking in the comments for this specifically
You remind me of my asian friend
@@alexanderfee2910 does higgs even post anymore?
DukiNuki i think so but not much
I think one of the most original and unique death threat I've ever heard in fiction comes from Fire Emblem: Fates. Fire Emblem: Fates is terrible, but this one line is really good. It's delivered by Leo, the player character's younger brother when they first meet again after the player betrays their home kingdom.
"Nohrian Law is blunt on the subject of traitors. There is but one punishment; the sentence is death"
Unique.
I disagree with a lot of what you said. I think asking writers to completely avoid cliches at all costs is not what we should focus on. Instead, we need to try and understand what made the cliche useful and attempt to use the core idea in a more interesting way. For example, the ticking clock may be an overused cliche, but done properly it can still work as intended and build suspense. What the writer has to do is find the core of how the ticking clock can benefit their story, and consider what the best alternative to it is. Maybe drop it altogether? Maybe have a time sensitive situation with a "hidden" ticking clock? And yes, perhaps it is simply better to leave an actual ticking clock in the story. Turning it into a joke about cliches is of course an amusing alternative, but it is certainly not the only method to use this device. Cliches become what they are because they are extremely useful in many situations, and we shouldn't ignore their benefits.
Fans: “Can we Have Step Brothers 2?”
Sony: “Sherlock Holmes Parody?”
Fans: “W...What, no. We want Step...”
Sony: “Holmes and Watson releases in 2018!”
Stepbrothers isn't as good as you remember.
I think the parody angle is what sells it. An important aspect of a good joke is subverting expectations. Everyone knows the cliche and knows how it's going to end, so when you subvert that in a way that calls out the fact that it was a cliche in the first place, that makes for a good joke. Playing it straight would be a cliche, but parodying it is not because parodying the cliche has not yet become cliche. Though I think there are some such parodies that have become cliche (not that I can think of an example at the moment).
The editing a cliche thing reminds me of the whole "whoa, didn't see you there" thing in movies because even if they say "whoa, i DID see you there" even *that's* been done to death
I would recommend looking into Ouran High School Host Club, which uses character cliches (but by you tropes) as a thematic device
My least favourite cliche is the whole “(insert previous time period here), do modern day things” when there’s some for of old tech that the characters use in the movies to do things like taking a selfie, but the only joke is that it’s used in the context of that era because it’s just like how WE do do things today, DO YOU GET IT?
Now, in good movies, like Shrek 1 and 2, The Emperor’s New Groove, A Knight’s Tale, Warlock, Time After Time, My Little Pony: A New Generation, Hoodwinked!, Quest For Camelot, Love At Stake, We’re Back! A Dinosaur’s Story, How To Train Your Dragon, Blazing Saddles, Snow White And The Red Shoes, A Monster In Paris, Frozen 1 and 2, Enchanted, Aladdin, Dr Mordrid, and Ferngully, the anachronistic humour enriched the story and characters, relying more on situational comedy to not only make it funny, but making it more than just “Oh ha ha, these old-fashioned people are doing modern things just like us, they’re so silly!”
But in bad movies, like Holmes And Watson, The Croods’s films, Hoodwinked 2, the animated Addam’s Family movies,Igor, Walking With Dinosaurs: The Movie, Just Visting, Shrek 3 and 4, the terrible Swan Princess CGI sequels, Horrible Histories: The Movie, the forgettable Jack Black movie Gulliver’s Travels, Leap!/Ballerina, and Brave, there are no subversions or unique twists on the cliche, or even showing how different people reacted to the then new inventions at the time, it’s just a lazy, desperate and cheap form of humour, solely there to pander to the audience.
using an Orwell reference to talk about privacy? Isn't that a bit cliched?
You got me :)
13:05 i had the same reaction to hitchhiker's guide's "they hung in the air much in the same way bricks don't"
Its such a bizarre way of describing something yet you can instantly picture it as something looking totally unnatural and out of place, unreal even.
20:03 you should’ve said “you could join me and together we can rule the galaxy under nordvpn.” Gotta make it cliché
Cliche isn’t bad in itself and you can use cliches in your work because you know how the reaction and expectations to said cliche will be for your audience, the problem comes when you leave it at that and don’t expand off them or play with them. A cliche isn’t an inherently bad thing off the bat but when you use it on its own and expect it to be fresh and new then you get into bad writing. Trying to avoid any cliche ever made can also harm your work just as much as being lazy with them, the most important thing is to make sure whatever you write has a point to it. If you only write something to avoid a cliche that becomes just as pointless as including one with nothing else. It’s like “okay you avoided using that cliche….now what? Oh that’s it? You just wanted us to see you did something different and left it at that…..okay. Now get back to the actual story or do something to progress the plot.”
I want to see a video of how to build a great character developments.
One of my favorite tropes is the ancient unknowable space empire. We see these in The Expanse, Old Man's War, Halo, Babylon 5, Warhammer, etc. It offers a lot of room for creativity and is generally interesting if the sense of mystery is kept.
I actually really like movies that use cliches and tropes to their advantage by setting up the beginning of the cliche or trope and than subverting the audiences expectations with it
@Fros-T13 one, I did mean what Shaun said, and two, while I did like the last Jedi, I didn't love it. I simply thought it was good. The Last Jedi is diffidently something I'll show my kids one day, but I'll make sure to show them the ones I prefer. The original trilogy and I'll show them how to make educated opinions about movies through this. In my opinion, not all movies have to leave you with a feeling of joy, or even have you leaving the movie liking it. A movies job is to educate you on your emotions (in my opinion) so you may leave a movie sad or feeling betrayed but that doesn't mean its not a good movie.
I think that the movie Clue uses some cliches well.
Professor Plum: What are you afraid of, a fate worse than death? Mrs. Peacock: No, just death, isn't that enough?
*Talks about how Cliché is bad and dangerous*
*Does a Cliché by connecting the video with his sponsor*
No, it's a cliché.
I feel like the trope/cliche line doesn't even matter, all that matters is how much creativity is applied to it.
For me, I just stick by what the Writing Excuses podcast said about the topic: Tropes, Archetypes, and even Cliches are all writing tools. You only need to figure out the ifs and hows of using them.
I would call the Galaxy Quest countdown scene a _subversion_ of the cliché rather than an "original take" on it. It's a joke, and like all (funny) jokes it relies on setting up a certain expectation and then subverting it. The point of the scene is that it _looks_ like it's going to be cliché'd, but then isn't. It doesn't actually use the cliché in its usual narrative function, it just evokes the appearance of it.
You literally did not bring any new information to the table here. The entire point of the video is that you need to subvert audience expectations to make entertaining content, I'm pretty sure he uses the word subvert several times.
And, it was a great establishment of how the aliens did their research and took everything absolutely literally. It served the story by establishing characters and setting and also was hilarious
The other option is to overwrite the cliche or trope with original content.
"He snapped his head around sharply and two angry orbs greeted his gaze. They engulfed Steve, the anger radiating from them paralyzed him with terror and made him feel small, exactly like a deer trapped in headlights. It was his wife, and she glared at the vomit on his shirt, then the bottle in his hand."
Even using the cliche in this way works because you're putting in extra effort to evoke the image or feeling of the trope instead of asking the trope to do all the heavy lifting. If you do it right, the audience will be saying, "like this trope," to themselves, and all you'll be doing is confirming it to them.
Precisely, my dear Watson
“Cliche” is just so... Cliché.
Can you do more videos on how to write unique characters? I loved your video on writing a good villain, it's something that really helps me. A video on how to write an anti-hero or just a hero would be brilliant. I always find anti-heroes to be the most interesting characters in any story.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will watch it tonight to help me sleep :)
Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett were great at editing cliches and turning them into satire
This is one of my favourite creative threats I've heard in a peice of fiction:
Context: Criminals just kidnapped some people and had 3 white vans, 1 with the victims and 2 decoy vans.
The protagonist (FBI agent) has busted one of the decoy drivers and wants to get Intel out of him. The victims are her own husband and step-son (as well as the son's bio-mother) so she is livid;
"You have the right to remain silent but I swear if you don't tell me *what the fuck* I want to know I will forget where I put you for the next 10 years!"
Respect to anyone who can identify where that comes from.
Will Ferrell should not have attempted to even dream of playing a character so deep and interesting as Sherlock Holmes
Yea alright sherlock fanboy.
@@user-zg5ey5xo9i Been reading the books since well before Benedict Cumberbatch came to screen.
@@boredcryptek5513 Please show me where i mentioned that name?
@@user-zg5ey5xo9i Sorry some people just assume that Sherlock Holmes fans are only fans of that show.
Avoiding cliches is hard advice to take seriously when moments after you say “leave a comment down below” like every other TH-camr in existence
It may seem like a cliché, but most TH-camrs actually see major increases in video interaction when they say things like "make sure you stay till the end" or "like and comment". For TH-camrs interaction is their main source of income. Getting more comments gets them more views, and views get them money from ad revenue or will give them sponsorship opportunities.
Ugh, nothing is inherently cliche.
Cliche occurs when a writer doesn't understand their world: like a deer in headlights even though the world of the story is focusing on neither etc.
I think we can all agree, that the phrase "I think we can all agree" is a cliché.
I love how the “paper thin Disguise” article has a Calvin and Hobbs comic as the visual demonstration. I think the only character in history who ever pulled off that trope was Boris Badenov from Rocky and Bullwinkle. 😏
Been very much enjoying your videos good sir!
Shit, I just included the ‘fate worse than death’ in my film
For gods sake , get it out get it out the fate of the universe lies in your hands
Taking that line out will back to the future our fate
@@saulgoodman1236 I have literally no idea what you just said
@@wonderland2462 well maybe you should read it again
The infuriating part is how often this film had setups that could have been hilarious. If Holmes had paradoxically been SPOT-ON PERFECT whenever he turned on "detective mode" it would have made his sudden ability to do intricate calculations funny as hell. If they'd used that stupid disguise moment and had Watson know it was him but treat it as a great disguise by grinning and going "my god, Holmes, you're a CHAMELEON..." then it would have been funny. Juxtaposition of smart and stupid is funny. A tidal wave of unabashed stupid is not.
I still think that the problem is "Lazy".
When it comes to bad comedy movie or bad story telling in general, the problem usually isn't the cliche itself, but the context.
What context? That's the problem, there's usually none.
When a story, or how the story is told, is just about how many used jokes can be put in, it doesn't have to make sense as a whole story.
That's what makes people lose interest fast, any knowledge about the story can be thrown away in any transition.
"A fate worse than death" can certainly be a powerful punch, if the story already has an interesting character died and had a negative impact, the audience would have the image of "death" to build upon.
If the sentence fells exactly the same as "I will do something bad", that's not because of the sentence being used before, but there is no context of the story to understand it.
When we complain about a cliche, the real problem is it doesn't add or fit the story.
My point is, I don't think it would help much trying to avoid what is used before.
The problem is simply what fit for you.
Your voice is nice to listen to. Smooth and confident, beautiful accent, engaging content, Good work mate.
This is an absolutely brilliant video. It had me wondering though, is a phrase that is so synonymous with a single worth also a cliche? If used it would be a similar but almost inverse effect. Instead of being so overused there is no longer any single point of reference to associate it with it would instead cause the audience to think of a different work entirely.
"Bored into unconsciousness",That got me so hard😂.
I feel like one of the most important parts of a youtuber is their voice and the way they speak. It's the reason I like watching Shammy, Mitten Squad and Shaffirilas. You've nailed the voice, my guy, because two seconds in and I'm already entertained.
One of the most important? Not in my experience.
But yeah, he has definitely a good tone.
I thought from the way you said the director's names, that he was Ethan Coen, part of the Coen brothers alongside Joel Coen. Then I actually did my research and learnt that the letter "H" was missing.
i always thought of a cliche as a trope that was so overused that its original meaning is overshadowed by all the ways you've heard it before, and all the ways it's already been done. it doesn't have its own place in the story, because its place is in every other story it's ever been used in, and it had no impact anymore
Hmm… I wonder what a good caption for that picture of Sherlock Holmes would be? 🤔
I appreciate your insights, but to be honest I eventually got a little bored of the semantics -- dissecting and identifying examples as "cliche" or "trope."
Maybe that was your whole intent with this video, but it felt like it was only one part of a whole, of what I thought this video would be.
I think you can do the thinly veiled disguise cliché well, such as if there is no time, or its something that can be explained easily, like the person who can't recognize them can't see faces well, or has bad vision.
Mix the cliches and tropes in a way to make them work well
I thought it will be an original TH-cam video, but it turned out to be just a rather cliché "I'll tell you a mediocre story, and make a click bait-ey title, so I could "sell" you the ad in the end" type of video.
Pity.
You're one of those people who sees, but does not observe. There was no "mediocre story" brought up. His video was not clickbaity, as he tried to do exactly what the video said. And he did a good job, explaining all his points with well thought out arguments and solid elements. But, then again, bashing something of high quality out of stupidity, with no reasoning to back up your statement is a cliche at this point.
@@megashark1013 He didn't actually answer the question raised in his title. The entire video was basically about what is and isn't a cliche and why cliches are actually bad.
His stated point and the points he actually raised didn't coincide. Cliches are a part of what can bore your audience, but they aren't the only things that can. Poor trope usage, safe writing (which I define as dialog or events that are obvious rather than surprising or original), over-explained/under-explained events or surroundings.
Some things I took-away from this video:
Cliché --> Phrases tacked together like sections of a pre-fabricated hen house. Readers or viewers don't see the story as it comes one small brick at a time, they see the whole pre-frabricated section all at once----ruining all suspense.
'Cliché Fixes':
1.) Delete and Replace the pre-frabricated section with the building blocks that make up it's meaning (don't give 4, give 2 + 2).
2.) Find the essence of the cliché and come up with an entirely original way to create that essence.
i.e. Instead of "Mark my words, I'll kill you if it's the last thing I do," take the basic essence of that line, the original building block----"threatening someone," and then create an original moment of that essence.
3.) Parody it.
4.) Use tropes instead---these tropes can be started and ended differently (questions, answers, cause, effect, and emotions); as well as set-up beforehand to create a different effect,
ie Chekhov's gun, foreshadowing, etc.
I’m glad I didn’t see this in theatres
In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, you're under arrest, Chancellor.
Theodore Pinnock it’s treason then
The irony is you never ever get to the point succinctly.. I just kept hearing cliche cliche cliche but never understood how the movie did it badly.
Wait, was I meant to be bored by this episode?? Like I loved everything presented but always felt you were drawing out the information to get to your point??? Maybe it's just too early in the morning ...
Seriously! This video spells everything out even when it's absolutely obvious. Like the curve of the circle thing. Yes, we all got it immediately when you read the passage, you don't have to give us an example of the horizon. It felt like that with each point he made. And also like others have pointed out, this approach to cliches are is not helpful, which has been elaborated on in other comments.
18:01
Ohhh yea yea thats so true!
*Then suddenly went into Nord VPN ad*
What?
The thumbnail says everything: Put Will Farrel in it and you'll bore everyone to tears.
It is all about survival. People have a somewhat paradoxical mechanism in their head that makes its host seek stability for the sake of survival. Once the host finds a safe haven, that particular mechanism now starts to work differently. It actually propels the host to abandon the haven. You might ask, how and why it does that. Well, if you found yourself in a safe but steady routine, a sense of boredom might invade your life because you don't learn anything new. Yes you are safe here, but that is only for now. What if some unforeseen accidents happen that disrupt the status quo? You bet you will find yourself caught off guard, meaning that staying in some safe place is no less dangerous than trying to find one. That's why people are bored when they find something familiar - boredom is a tool for surviving. Cliches are things that were overdone to a point that they are ubuiqitous, so the chance that someone hasn't encountered one in their life is infinitely close to zero. That is probably the reason that we register cliche as something boring, because they lost their purpose in our never ending desire to survive. By the way, don't take all that survival staff and apply it to the modern world. By survival, I meant those outdated instincts that I find now quite inadequate to be properly integrated into futuristic world.
Could you narrate various things in my life?
Half the vid was an advert for Nord VPN lol
Edited cliche: change the words all you lilke, it's core meaning is still cliche.
E.G. "The sky was as dark as pitch, the winds driving the rain against the window" still means "it was a dark and stormy night."
Try to own or even mock the cliche; "Pouring with rain - check. Wind rattling the windows - check. It was at night - check. All it needed now was forked lightning to announce the door opening. Ah, there it goes!"