I'm so grateful to have a firearms channel that believes that education and information is entertaining enough in itself. Over a thousand videos and not one, 'What happens when I shoot a ballistic gel zombie head/bowling ball/propane tank' etc.
It's amazing how many makers tried so many ways to get around the Rollin-White patents, and how aggressive S&W's legal Eagles had to be defending it....lots of small outfits said screw it, used the bored-thru cylinder and produced a ton of revolvers and shoved them out on the market, planning to stop when challenged legally, but looking for that quick "hit" of sales profit..
The craziest part is Rollin White himself was responsible for defending the patent. He bankrupted himself protecting Smith and Wesson's interests, he had signed an exclusive licensing deal with S&W for very little money as he thought his patent was worthless because he couldn't get his prototype to work.
No actually S&W didn’t have to defend the patent as the only licensed the exclusive right to make NEW guns using it in the US, Rollin-White as the holder had to defend the patent at his own ( and not inconsiderable) expense, also it was only a US patent and thus was not applicable in say Belgium, France, or the British Empire and territories……….😮
That was the brilliance of the deal SW made with White, SW paid him a fee but he had to pay to defend the patent for SW from what I read, eventually it ruined him.
Back in the late 70's I got to look over an 1860 Army with a Thuer cylinder. It was in a wood case set with both the original cylinder and the Thuer cylinder like the one in your video. The one I saw at the Log Cabin Gunshop in Lodi Ohio was original. It must not got much use because the Thuer cylinder looked almost new. I always wanted one.
I have never seen this before! Extremely interesting design. It is especially good in that you can swap back to the cap-and-ball cylinder to save your cartridges
I love these inter-generational firearms and modifications to existing firearms, thank you for exhibiting these for all to see. These periods where a new technology hasn't been idealized yet really showcase human ingenuity and creativity.
Gary Barns out of Texas makes a nice Thuer cylinder that takes 38spl or 45 Colt. They are like the Howell conversion cylinders the way they load but look like the Thuer compete with the safety feature.
How did the cartridges compare ballistically with separate powder and bullet? Great video btw. Your production and presentation are so much better than anything else in the TH-cam gun world.
Hi Carl, have you ever thought of doing a American History only channel? They way you present history is excellent. Fan of your work, greetings from South Africa.
@@InrangeTvI am on your "side of the argument" here. I am really enjoying the different topics and you can clearly see the connections. Thank you for your videos. I am watching already for years on different video Platforms.
Thanks again, Karl! I shoot both C+B and modern guns, and find the advent of metallic cartridges and the "conversion era" a fascinating period. I love to hear about the who, what, when and why, or why NOT. The shady backroom deals and the "we'll keep making 'em til we get caught" fluid morality would never fly today. It was definitely a different time.
Great video Karl! My first exposure to gun powder conversions was Hunt Showdown with the Caldwell conversion as an option. Interesting to see these technologies that bridge the gap if you couldn't buy a fancy new cartridge revolver.
I love black powder and cartridge conversions. I have a standard model 1858 reproduction that I kept with the loose powder cylinder and an 1858 "sheriff" model with the .45 Colt conversion cylinder. I liked the conversion so much that I bought a Rossi M92 in .45 Colt, so I have a carbine and revolver in the same caliber.
It didn't take them long to figure out what an advantage "Pistol Caliber Carbines" were. We're finally discovering it all over again.😉 I always wanted to get a lever gun to go with my revolvers.
Hi Carl. The name Thuer = Thor, The son of Odin and the God of Thunder. Not a Hollywood clown-figure, but a powerful deity of the Old Norse faith, the Asatro - the belief in Scandinavian/German/Anglo-Saxon mythology. Thank you for making these great historical videos. The Völve, Asatru shaman
Karl, I feel you on the fascination of particular firearm time periods... I'm fascinated by any firearms from the post cartridge era, especially the era of anything I can afford, and afford ammo for it... So my AR-15 S2 clone and A4 clone(I just love how soft a rifle length buffer, gas, and barrel shoots) and a bazillion 22LRs because I can afford them all... 9mm n 762x39 I'm kinda bored of, and 8mm Mauser But something about 22LR is always fun, as well as .223/5.56 I can spend 8 hours shooting either and not feel like I just had a range day, 22 brings me to my youth, and 556 is just so fun, though hard to find somewhere around me(Midwest) to really let a A2 or A4 clone really... Stretch their combustion legs so to speak... Been messing with 25 and 32 ACP lately just for fun(and because 45 gets old quickly as a "range fun" round) You'll never read this, but I'm just engaging the video for the Almighty algorithm to bless it and show others
I love my drop in Howell .45 Colt cylinder that I use in my Uberti 1858 and I put up a video of me taking out a flower pot with some .45 Colt slugs that I fired from it but it seems like a modified modern repro thuer design conversion cylinder would be better in colt style repros than the Howell drop in design especially to fire .45 Colt from an 1860 army
Exactly, Sir, the Smith and Wesson put three things together, the primer, the powder and the bulled-conical, in one! That´s why they could start off a new era of repeated arms firing, either by revolvers, or lever-action guns, let alone pistols employeing the same cartridges in a new mechanincs based semi-automatic way of pistols! Many thankss, particularly for the version of the conversion between the old Colt and new Swiss and Wesson versions. Best regards, Paul, 68, fan of Western-like weapons.
@InRangeTV I have your S&W's big brother, the #2 "Old Army" in .32 long rimfire. A tad more effective than the .22 short! Mine was made in late 1864, so Civil War production. I get the cartridge casings from the same place as your .38RF cartridge cases.
I'll add on that, as firearm enthusiasts, we need to focus back on these somewhat. The history of these black powder firearms is fascinating, and every gun enthusiast should go through the process of shooting and loading a black powder firearms at least once, simply to appreciate how far we have come
I'm pretty sure I saw a photo once of Cherokee outlaw Ned Christie with a homemade cartridge conversion Colt pistol. Can anyone else confirm this? Thanks for the video- very informative on a subject I didn't know I didn't know.
Is the revolver itself a reproduction. I know that with the originals you could order navy's with a square back trigger guard but I've never seen a reproduction navy with a square back trigger guard. It also almost looked like there was the address Sam colt stamp on the top of the barrel
How are you just going to gloss over the neatest part- You can use it to do handloads?! That's unbelievable! Makes so much sense. I mean, you have a source of leverage, so why wouldn't you?
Hey Karl. Im a new truck driver and i recently had a... frightening encounter. Luckily it didn't turn violent but i suspect my words wont always work in evading action. My company prohibits the carrying of firearms while on duty, and i would like to know what you would use for protection if firearms were not permitted for whatever reason
I really want to get into a cap and ball revolver soon I think I remember you saying on multiple occasions you recommend starting on an 1860 replica (again iirc) however, the 1851 Navy is my favorite cap and ball gun would you say the 1851 Navy is a good starter, or does it have some weird quirks like the Walkers?
@@InrangeTv the 38 short colt and the 38 rimfire have the same diameter and the same overall cartridge length. Also, both cartridges used a heel based bullet. I believe that the 38 short colt was designed as the center fire replacement for the 38 rimfire in the original Colt open top cartridge conversions. I don't know if you can get new 38 short colt cartridges now, but I know you can get reloading supplies for them. It probably uses the same bullet as the 38 rimfire for reloading.
How does this work legally? I know that muzzleloaders in the US aren't counted federally as firearms, but this conversion kit turns it into a regular cartridge gun doesn't it? Did you have to go through the regular gun buying process to get this?
"The firearms industries of back then and nowadays were pretty much the same." ... Nobody: Hunters in 1784: Doth thif hunting rifle cometh in .300 Blk?"
Babe wake up Karl posted more BP
Oooo I'll get our inrangetv watchin hats!
Two post interesting user names.
I'm so grateful to have a firearms channel that believes that education and information is entertaining enough in itself. Over a thousand videos and not one, 'What happens when I shoot a ballistic gel zombie head/bowling ball/propane tank' etc.
Thank you for noticing! I'm not into that sort of content myself, and I don't want to create it - even if that's where the largest viewer base is.
@@InrangeTv Your integrity is a constant that has kept me a viewer for years. Thank you.
I am not a black powder shooter, but man the history is brilliant. Thanks Karl
Thanks!
give it a try, it's super fun and pretty inexpensive!
It's amazing how many makers tried so many ways to get around the Rollin-White patents, and how aggressive S&W's legal Eagles had to be defending it....lots of small outfits said screw it, used the bored-thru cylinder and produced a ton of revolvers and shoved them out on the market, planning to stop when challenged legally, but looking for that quick "hit" of sales profit..
The craziest part is Rollin White himself was responsible for defending the patent. He bankrupted himself protecting Smith and Wesson's interests, he had signed an exclusive licensing deal with S&W for very little money as he thought his patent was worthless because he couldn't get his prototype to work.
No actually S&W didn’t have to defend the patent as the only licensed the exclusive right to make NEW guns using it in the US, Rollin-White as the holder had to defend the patent at his own ( and not inconsiderable) expense, also it was only a US patent and thus was not applicable in say Belgium, France, or the British Empire and territories……….😮
That was the brilliance of the deal SW made with White, SW paid him a fee but he had to pay to defend the patent for SW from what I read, eventually it ruined him.
This is my favourite kind of content InRangeTV does. The gun including a safety like that is a really considerate feature.
the White patent should never have been granted but corruption really helps. there were examples from before the patent showing bore through cylinders
The patent system has been used as a weapon since its inception, and it's no different today...perhaps even worse.
I love your content mr carl. You covered a lot of obscure firearms that might never documented properly . Thank you for making this video.
Back in the late 70's I got to look over an 1860 Army with a Thuer cylinder. It was in a wood case set with both the original cylinder and the Thuer cylinder like the one in your video. The one I saw at the Log Cabin Gunshop in Lodi Ohio was original. It must not got much use because the Thuer cylinder looked almost new. I always wanted one.
I have never seen this before! Extremely interesting design. It is especially good in that you can swap back to the cap-and-ball cylinder to save your cartridges
I love these inter-generational firearms and modifications to existing firearms, thank you for exhibiting these for all to see. These periods where a new technology hasn't been idealized yet really showcase human ingenuity and creativity.
Gary Barns out of Texas makes a nice Thuer cylinder that takes 38spl or 45 Colt. They are like the Howell conversion cylinders the way they load but look like the Thuer compete with the safety feature.
Thank You. I find the late 1800s early 1900s era fascinating, the Old West alongside cars, airplanes, machine guns, semi auto pistols
It was a very interesting time in history. I really enjoy the guns from that era.
How did the cartridges compare ballistically with separate powder and bullet? Great video btw. Your production and presentation are so much better than anything else in the TH-cam gun world.
It was pretty equivalent, and thank you!
Hi Carl, have you ever thought of doing a American History only channel? They way you present history is excellent. Fan of your work, greetings from South Africa.
It's hard enough to maintain one channel, and I like it all in one place as I think it all relates, but thank you!
@@InrangeTvI am on your "side of the argument" here. I am really enjoying the different topics and you can clearly see the connections. Thank you for your videos. I am watching already for years on different video Platforms.
HEY, YOU! FELLOW PATREON SUBSCRIBER!
You’re looking great today!
Have a good day!
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That is so interesting I have never heard of thuer conversion. Thanks Karl for sharing and educating us.🤠🇺🇲
My pleasure!
That's a Number One. I have a One and a Half, in 32 rimfire. Otherwise, spot on!
Yep, oops.
Definitely digging more of the black powder transitional/"Old West" firearms tech content. Especially with the context presented.
A good day and a good video. I learnsd something new. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks again, Karl! I shoot both C+B and modern guns, and find the advent of metallic cartridges and the "conversion era" a fascinating period. I love to hear about the who, what, when and why, or why NOT. The shady backroom deals and the "we'll keep making 'em til we get caught" fluid morality would never fly today. It was definitely a different time.
I'm loving this Old West content.
Nice! Thanks Karl. Richard.
Great video Karl!
My first exposure to gun powder conversions was Hunt Showdown with the Caldwell conversion as an option.
Interesting to see these technologies that bridge the gap if you couldn't buy a fancy new cartridge revolver.
I love black powder and cartridge conversions. I have a standard model 1858 reproduction that I kept with the loose powder cylinder and an 1858 "sheriff" model with the .45 Colt conversion cylinder. I liked the conversion so much that I bought a Rossi M92 in .45 Colt, so I have a carbine and revolver in the same caliber.
It didn't take them long to figure out what an advantage "Pistol Caliber Carbines" were. We're finally discovering it all over again.😉 I always wanted to get a lever gun to go with my revolvers.
Love these obscure black powder history videos. Especially when they feature steampunky guns like this.
I have never seen this before, extremely interesting how firearms evolved. Thank you for your research and explanation.
Hi Carl. The name Thuer = Thor, The son of Odin and the God of Thunder. Not a Hollywood clown-figure, but a powerful deity of the Old Norse faith, the Asatro - the belief in Scandinavian/German/Anglo-Saxon mythology.
Thank you for making these great historical videos.
The Völve, Asatru shaman
Great info on these conversions. Nice shirt, too (Wah Maker "Dealer Diamond").
That is so cool. I never knew the Thuer still front loaded, and using the hammer to eject spent casings? So cool.
I love that old table
Woah that thuer is neat! Cool idea to just use a detachable firing pin ring. Thanks for this one Karl, didn’t know about these.
Karl, I feel you on the fascination of particular firearm time periods...
I'm fascinated by any firearms from the post cartridge era, especially the era of anything I can afford, and afford ammo for it...
So my AR-15 S2 clone and A4 clone(I just love how soft a rifle length buffer, gas, and barrel shoots) and a bazillion 22LRs because I can afford them all...
9mm n 762x39 I'm kinda bored of, and 8mm Mauser
But something about 22LR is always fun, as well as .223/5.56
I can spend 8 hours shooting either and not feel like I just had a range day, 22 brings me to my youth, and 556 is just so fun, though hard to find somewhere around me(Midwest) to really let a A2 or A4 clone really... Stretch their combustion legs so to speak...
Been messing with 25 and 32 ACP lately just for fun(and because 45 gets old quickly as a "range fun" round)
You'll never read this, but I'm just engaging the video for the Almighty algorithm to bless it and show others
I read this. :)
@@InrangeTv I appreciate that!
I like your old firearms content.
Glad to here it, cuz more to come!
Ned Christie, Oklahoma's famous Indian Outlaw was a Cherokee gunsmith who specialize in revolver conversions.
Very interesting information!
Glad you think so!
I love my drop in Howell .45 Colt cylinder that I use in my Uberti 1858 and I put up a video of me taking out a flower pot with some .45 Colt slugs that I fired from it but it seems like a modified modern repro thuer design conversion cylinder would be better in colt style repros than the Howell drop in design especially to fire .45 Colt from an 1860 army
I love that same period! It was a wild time firearms wise. ❤
Always wanted one of these cartridges in my collection.
I love it when you do it right Thuer right Thuer
This is a fascinating video about important innovations from this important era in firearms technology development.
Exactly, Sir,
the Smith and Wesson put three things together, the primer, the powder and the bulled-conical, in one! That´s why they could start off a new era of repeated arms firing, either by revolvers, or lever-action guns, let alone pistols employeing the same cartridges in a new mechanincs based semi-automatic way of pistols!
Many thankss, particularly for the version of the conversion between the old Colt and new Swiss and Wesson versions.
Best regards, Paul, 68, fan of Western-like weapons.
One of the best channels about black powder guns. Love this content. Also, are you thinking of filming more of Old West Vignettes?
Great presentation!
Glad you liked it!
Brilliant thanks Karl
I love your guises history
I agree with you, transition periods are fascinating
This was really cool!
Amazing upload I really enjoy the history of the older weapons kuup up the great work.
Being able to use the gun as a reloading tool is very clever.
I love the history you share Karl! Keep up the good work!
Excellent.. thank you
Very interesting, thanks.
Well done Karl.
Very interesting thank you!👍🏽😊❤️🇺🇸
Wow, never knew anyone made reproductions of these. Very fascinating.
@InRangeTV I have your S&W's big brother, the #2 "Old Army" in .32 long rimfire. A tad more effective than the .22 short! Mine was made in late 1864, so Civil War production. I get the cartridge casings from the same place as your .38RF cartridge cases.
Pls show us more about the mechanism for the Thuer conversion
Good information. If this is not passed on it will never be known.
history is brilliant.
That sounds like a good video idea! How to get ammo in the old west.
Karl, I am once again asking where you got those glasses
www.historiceyewearcompany.com
I learned something, keep going on!
thank you
Good video. I like your BP stuff.
Heard of those but didn't know that's how to unload it or that you could reload the shells pretty cool
This is mostly for the algorithm. I love inrange doing the black powder stuff and it deserves a little help lol
I'll add on that, as firearm enthusiasts, we need to focus back on these somewhat. The history of these black powder firearms is fascinating, and every gun enthusiast should go through the process of shooting and loading a black powder firearms at least once, simply to appreciate how far we have come
Dang never ever heard of this! Would love hear about how this transitioned into the single action army. With regards to the patents and such involved.
Ingenious
Older black powder oddities always peak my interest.
Does not seem any faster than using paper cartridges. But the metallic cartridges a likely more reliable under adverse conditions.
Hey Karl, have you ever thought about why a volcanic repro in .22LR doesn't exist?
No one would buy them at the cost it would take to manufacture them.
@@InrangeTv what do you think itd cost to produce? People buy perdeosolli rolling blocks in small calibers, I can imagine $1200 would be pretty fair
I dont want that conversion. I want those sunglasses.
www.historiceyewearcompany.com/
Thank you so much!
I'm pretty sure I saw a photo once of Cherokee outlaw Ned Christie with a homemade cartridge conversion Colt pistol. Can anyone else confirm this? Thanks for the video- very informative on a subject I didn't know I didn't know.
Was this repro made by Gary Lee Barnes? He's a buddy of mine here in Texas who makes reproductions of them.
No idea!
Cool!
Is the revolver itself a reproduction. I know that with the originals you could order navy's with a square back trigger guard but I've never seen a reproduction navy with a square back trigger guard. It also almost looked like there was the address Sam colt stamp on the top of the barrel
sunglasses so baller
How are you just going to gloss over the neatest part- You can use it to do handloads?! That's unbelievable! Makes so much sense. I mean, you have a source of leverage, so why wouldn't you?
It is a fascinating time I agree. How about looking for a automatic revolver. Where there any of these ?
We British made the Webley Fosbery self cocking revolver from 1901 to 1924. I'm sure there have been other foreign designs too.
The Mateba is the most well known.
Still amazed at what they could do then
Cooool 🤙
Hey Karl. Im a new truck driver and i recently had a... frightening encounter. Luckily it didn't turn violent but i suspect my words wont always work in evading action. My company prohibits the carrying of firearms while on duty, and i would like to know what you would use for protection if firearms were not permitted for whatever reason
I'd look heavily at good pepper spray or the Taser Pulse.
I really want to get into a cap and ball revolver soon I think I remember you saying on multiple occasions you recommend starting on an 1860 replica (again iirc) however, the 1851 Navy is my favorite cap and ball gun would you say the 1851 Navy is a good starter, or does it have some weird quirks like the Walkers?
I have to wonder why they didn't chamber the repro in something like the 38 short colt or 38 S&W...
Space between chambers.
@@InrangeTv the 38 short colt and the 38 rimfire have the same diameter and the same overall cartridge length. Also, both cartridges used a heel based bullet. I believe that the 38 short colt was designed as the center fire replacement for the 38 rimfire in the original Colt open top cartridge conversions.
I don't know if you can get new 38 short colt cartridges now, but I know you can get reloading supplies for them. It probably uses the same bullet as the 38 rimfire for reloading.
How does this work legally? I know that muzzleloaders in the US aren't counted federally as firearms, but this conversion kit turns it into a regular cartridge gun doesn't it? Did you have to go through the regular gun buying process to get this?
I think percussion is the lowest I go when it comes to self defense tech.
The self defense batons are essentially just a stick
@@andrewstraub131 Yeah true. I should say with firearms the lowest tech I go is percussion.
Imagine trying to make a pin fire or lip fire cartridge these days
Neat!!!
Did most revolvers around that time come in cases like that?
No. These were custom ordered.
You picked up the pistol off of Invaluable. Am I wrong ?
You are wrong. I don't even know what that is, honestly.
👍😊
"The firearms industries of back then and nowadays were pretty much the same."
...
Nobody:
Hunters in 1784: Doth thif hunting rifle cometh in .300 Blk?"
Asking for only a dollar. Don't sound like much but if you think if I get a million people to send you $1, you'll be in good shape
Thank you, and true!
Love your technical, hate your political…
Thanks for sharing!
7:49 when I see a black in red dead 2
what is wrong with you