Dota 2 But Snapfire Attacks 2000 Times Per Second
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2022
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idk, warding is one of the most interesting parts of the game for a hard support player. It's about tracking information, trying to read your opponents habits, trying to predict what wards will be the most useful in the next 5 minutes.
People don't like warding if they don't like playing support. You have to move beyond simple rewards for playing well, I have a great satisfaction when I can spot a rotation onto my carry and save their life. Do I get gold for that? No, but that's not what it should be about
Warding requires a bigger view of the game that everyone can master, they just don't realise how important it is
You are right. Most of the games when my team isnt warding is simply because the pos 4 and 5 are probably core players farming fast queue and dont really like to support
im guessing you are pretty high up in mmr then, around 3k to 4k probably? but yeah I agree, and actually baumi said so as well that for the pros and competitive players warding in dota is a whole other thing, I don't agree that we should change much of it tho because it provides a high skill ceiling and complexities into the game that might not be appreciated by most players but for those looking to do it it will be a rewarding experience
Amen brother
there's nothing else to do
imagine your team falling behind and farming furiously, and your ganking unit got smashed in enemy territory a couple of times
only thing left for ya is warding
and when
obs placed
their wards dewarded
maybe a suicide mission to block their camps is done
you already got yelled at for leeching exp
so what's next? staring at towers more or less, making snow angels on cm... well, that privilege is revoked sadly due to long ass taunt cooldowns
careful, baumi doesnt understand this kind of stuff
the average player may forget to buy TPs, not look at the minimap, not buy utility items, not last hit properly
this happens all the time in Legend games which are already above average
does that mean that players don't resonate with keeping TPs, don't resonate with using the minimap, don't resonate with building utility, don't resonate with last hitting? of course not
dota is built around a lot of "tedious" mechanics, all in total to deliver a competitive game experience, it really doesn't need to be dumbed down more just because some players don't fully utilize all their mechanics
The "max time in belly" stat got me thinking about how many heroes can you stack? Can your entire team become a Russian nesting doll?
Life stealer infests another hero, who then gets eaten by Pudge, who then gets eaten by Snapfire.
inside Spirit Breaker of course
@@ZehndiX no last hero should be tusk so they can all be in the snowball
I miss morph’s aghs🥲🥲
I’m a pos 5 player and I love how warding is. Y’all playing checkers while I’m playing chess vs the other support. It’s a good time.
Yes you are right its about strategy and that's what instereting about dota
"Wards are a failed mechanic" is like saying "bkb is a failed mechanic".
Nobody WANTS to buy bkb. You HAVE to buy it because if you don't you lose the game.
Baumi complaining about someone finding a reason something doesn't work when he's doing the exact same thing about wards. Factually liking wards or not seems to be contextual. Let's not forget baumi has openly stated that he's a core player. Support players love warding, they don't like it when the team doesn't use their wards effectively
To me it sounds like "I don't like it when people argue against my opinion"
Baumi I’m not sure if this will be in the game but oh my god in a future update 100% you should let players create their own levels and there be a leaderboard for who can beat the level with the least blocks
While baumi didn't publish this he does have a lot of sway. I second this.
@@loganmyall660 similar to how poly bridge does it, would be super awesome
Isn't there already custom level
I asked this in a stream a while back, he said there will be a sandbox-like feature where players can make their own levels
I like the ward system. And i think people not take it because it take item slot which very impactful. What i hope is we will get another slot to detection. Like ward, dust, and gem.
I know you do not like LoL.
But the way the free wards (trinkets) work + the Bush mechanic makes it really intuitive to use.
Even in really low skill levels 80% of people use their wards.
They do not use it to full potential, but that also Shows that even Warding is a mechanic with skill growth.
27:06 That's kinda sus baumi haha
Hahaha glad I’m not the only one who noticed that
Wards are my most favorite mechanic in dota! I like to have information on everything and damage control
on topic of wards, it's just an issue in lower mmr bracket, 3000++ you won't ever see the ward being in stock and people actually fought over wards lol
Would be interested in seeing data that validates a claim like "Nobody likes/uses wards." I think you bring up some interesting points, but it's hard to substantiate anything without more information. Your experiences seem to differ than mine and others in the comments; In fact my least favorite part about custom games or turbos with my more casual friends is that the whole meaningful and enjoyable texture of warding is a lot less significant, which makes some styles of support way less fun to me.
Yeh this is up there as one of the worst takes i have come across from baumi regarding dota. No one has an issue with warding when you get to like 2k mmr or above (maybe less).
I used to love a good ward war, but on the 1st dota 2 map. It was such a fun mind game that was just between me and the other teams pos 5. I literally went on forums and spent time solo on the map to good ward and deward spots depending on the enemy. Only problem was that I'm not a dedicated pos 5, so my knowledge grew slowly over time, which meant when the map changed it ruined knowledge that would take me years to get back
I even sort of agree with the general gist, but imo the ward rant is still a bit weird.
For one, it's drawing lines in the sand. One can argue "competent" players all place wards, and players do want to place wards because they want to win. Also, if proportional player base engagement is how we are measuring success of mechanic, the it's clearly a gradient and not a binary fail/success system. Lower on the player skill totem pole we also have people who forgets to buy tps or don't know to farm. Don't make tps or farming failed mechanics.
For another, I'd argue games should be allowed to have mechanics that not everyone wants to or has to engage with. This really doesn't apply to wards specifically, but the general form of "if players don't engage -> failed mechanic" judgement is at odds with these.
Finally, esp a competitive game should be able to have, for lack of a better term, QoL salts. Not every mechanic needs to be as accessible as possible basically. Some things can be a little more counterintuitive or awkward to use and be a bit of busy work or "artificial depth". It adds charm and character in a weird way besides the obvious downside. Invoker would be a lot less funny if he just had 10 hotkeys for 10 spells even if we keep the cooldown as a kind of extreme example.
invoker would also be a lot less funny if he used all those buttons for the sole purpose of making the minimap less dark
wards just have an inherit issue of being gamechangers with the least amount of presence possible. they're a unit that sit on their invisible asses and do absolutely nothing and no matter how absurdly powerful that actually is, you're never gonna make the act of placing a ward feel like it has even a hundredth of the impact that it actually has. and all that for a mechanic that asks you to constantly check the shop and have your courier ferry an item to you and be down an inventory slot that _could_ be giving you stats or a cool effect and, hell, for the longest time, going out of your way to do all that _actually made you poorer!_
and that's all before factoring in that you have to actually place 'em and they don't have that much cast range and unless you have a shotcaller, it can be a struggle to know where your team is even gonna need 'em and the ones that don't get dewarded still have to replace because they expire and that's yet another timer you have to be aware of and it's just _so_ much tedium and anxiety for a pile of eyeballs that do nothing but see stuff you _know_ you'll want seen, but ... it's still just a goddamn pile of eyeballs
@@hi-i-am-atan I really don't know if it's as painful as you make it out to be.
I haven't played normal dota in quite a long time, but I've played smite some while back and I see people know to at least buy a ward after just losing a fight due to vision problems or being ranked, or even sentries.
Smite is a game in which wards cost 50 and sentries 135 while most full items are less than 250, couriers aren't a thing, and vision is far less complicated. the only upside I can see is that there are consumable slots and wards use those rather than item ones. So while I understand your complaints, I don't really think they are the deciding factor if indeed nobody place wards in mid level games.
As a side note, I personally think a button to make the map less dark is nice. Darkness is very scary.
@@randomnobody660 i haven't played smite in forever, but i _do_ remember its ui being _incredibly_ different from dota's and in all that time it's probably evolved even further, so yeah i could see it being the exact _opposite_ of what you're painting it as, where it cutting out some of those steps that dota chains to the mechanic makes it that much usable for the average smite player
and yeah, a button to make the map less dark _is_ pretty nice in oaa and league. shame dota just has a weird sonar thingy instead
@@randomnobody660 it is not even painful at all, that guy is clueless or just has an anxiety problem
Wards win games, sentry wards also win games and people in every bracket buy wards
36:00 Finally, after 30 minutes
I'd make it so that each team can place 2 wards at a time, and they can't be killed. Normal vision wards wouldn't block creep camps, but sentry would still have the same effect, and still make vision wards visible. Just can't target them. Could also plant trees around wards to block vision too I spose.
Honestly something really interesting to me is that in Dota people hate wards until you get high enough mmr that they become necessary to win and then you will see them. But like, if you play league, everyone is constantly warding and even in low leagues acquiring and denying vision is a huge part of every fight and integral to Laning correctly. I think there's like, 3 main differences.
The ward button vs inventory slot. Having a separate slot for wards is HUGELY important. If this isn't the case, no carry or other non-support role is ever going to carry them, because it takes away from their ability to do their job.
The number of wards. Dota wards are on a global timer for all players, so you get a pretty small number of them even if you're consistently buying them. Meanwhile, supports in league get 3 free wards every time they go to base, and everyone else still gets the free ones every 60 seconds or so per person.
And lastly, and this is the biggest one imo, bushes vs ward spots. Bushes in league demand vision be placed in them by the mechanics of how they work. You need vision in a bush to stop yourself getting ganked or snuck up on. Conversely, while ward spots are useful to see ganks in advance, they are super out of the way to get to, and don't even fully cover vision to protect from a gank. And they are BORING. you just walk up to it, deward the enemy, and then put your own down. There's only like 2 you're ever gonna care about for your lane, so you just waste gold to put wards up to stop the enemy from putting wards up. That's it that's the whole game there.
There's not enough wards to go around in Dota to just place them around corners to preempt ganks so dota has to have big spots that give you a lot of vision, but those spots tend to be super out of the way to be able to aptly find gabks and are super fought over because you basically have to use them, and your resources to do so are super limited and cost gold every time to try. It's awful. Remove ward spots and give people free wards that don't require an inventory slot and everyone would suddenly start warding I swear to God.
One of the things that's better with League is that you get a dedicated slot for wards and it reloads over time. You can also switch wards for something to clear wards (in the shop), but it's a choice: you either ward or clear. This means you don't rely on a single person warding, everyone can ward and it doesn't hinder you with your inventory. It used to be like Dota, but this change was really healthy for the game.
Basically, it's what you described with ''poop wards''.
@@jianyuloh20 No, it definitely is better. Baumi is absolutely right as: players do hate warding and this is easily seen by the adversion to doing it. They hate the slot it takes and they hate walking around the map placing wards when they'd rather do things that feel more impactful. Baumi covers the issue very well, this entirely fixes it because League had the exact same issue. There are no actual differences between League and Dota that don't make this a superior system to what we have now, League did it because League had the same issues as Dota.
P.S.: It's also why Techies was reworked, people don't want to spend the game walking around clearing things. It's why it's better to give them a tool that doesn't require to do so.
@@dzello No, it definitely is worse.
This comment section is a definite proof that Baumi is completely wrong and doesn't even know what the hell is he talking about, being a core player(duh).
@@zdexces Then you're clueless, straight up. Baumi is absolutely right. In fact, even his justification on the topic is exactly correct.
League had the same issues and the feedback after this change was exclusively positive. There are significant issues with warding in Dota, issues clearly highlited by Baumi in the video, and this fixes them.
@@dzello Just read this comment section dude, all of them destroy Baumi's points.
I'm not gonna copypaste them here.
@@zdexces It doesn't matter what the comment section says and Baumi clearly explains why in the video. A small vocal portion of players does not outweigh empirical facts and the latter prove warding in Dota fundamentally does not work since ''everyone knows it's good, but nobody does it''.
"oh you want back in the belly?" This is a good way to show who's into vore lmao
1:32 Baumi taken out of context: "I'm going ahead to doodle with my noodle"
I just want to say, imo the boosted videos are my favorite, not saying that you should do these videos only I'm just saying love the vids!!! Have a good day Baumi
And everyone else lol
The one guy in the chat saying that supports should sacrifice everything they have to be a support is kinda missing the vibe
How dare you have fun as a support!? TO THE CITY SQUARE WITH HIM! HAVE HIM STONED!
I think that line of thinking is what causes a lot of toxic behavior from carries towards supports.
"tHeN dOnT plAY sUppORts?!?!111///" - it's a decently fun role if you let me do my thing instead of acting like you have any fcking clue as to what i should be doing. Meanwhile the moron still has no BKB@25min but still wants to chase half way across the map... "noob support didn't ward enemy fountain"
I don’t think so
Minus blink supports are there too SUPPORT the carry making him “unstoppable”
@@connorlawson5706 and as plenty of other games, both before and after dota, have proven, y'can do that _without_ having the support sign away their organs to keep everything going
@@hi-i-am-atan that’s why u see all pro supports build for their carry im not sure how it is in your mr bracket but that’s how your supposed to play it
I think the problem with warding in dota lies in the complexity of it. Knowing when to ward which places is quite tricky. And if you deward enemy wards unwisely, you will certainly get caught and killed. So often inexperienced people buy wards, place them on the standard cliffs and essentially feed them to the enemy support. And i'm guilty of this too. I have 3000 hours and i still wouldnt consider myself knowledgable about warding. Its a supposed simple act, made extremely difficult by the sheer complexity of dota.
the ward button baumi suggesting is like the wards in league of legends
the belly joke made me spit my soup, thank you
People definitely use more wards in my turbo games... Dotabuff calls them high or very high skill
The thing about ward is that;
A. It's something best placed pre-emptively, so you could have a safety while going somewhere or to find someone, so if a carry carried it around and planted those themself it would defeat the point(except for offensive ward)
B. It ate an inventory slot, so while a farmed carry could carry it around they had to replace a probably important item that could save them if they step into the wrong place while trying to plant said ward
But here's another thing:
People play dota to hear the announcer goes crazy over their shit, they want to hear them scream those RAAMPAAAGGEEE
Now a support could hear it as well and get the kick of seeing their babysitted carry popped off, but that is not a guarantee *IF* you played solo, but otherwise? You wont have a guarantee that your babysitted carry will pop off
So what does that results into?
Well, people who solo que support wont play dota cause they couldnt get the guarantee of them getting their kicks and it just leave us with a bunch of crazy fucks who plays cores
I like how league handles it, they just reduces the whole map size and make it so that you can kill a creature that gives you both gold, buff AND vision over that area for a while making it so that it's not the support job for that menial task and it gives the carry their kicks while gaining a vision
Also in League you get warding and dewarding tools for free with extra dedicated support items that help supports keep up, preventing supports from feeling underwhelming, and also enhance their vision control.
seems like boosted is becoming quite a popular custom map, lots of people who watched you play wanted to try it out themselves too
Dota 2 but baumi becomes a cannibal
Most games I play have a Shadow Shaman that just spams wards to lag the game.
i really loved alex
Custom game idea for you Baumi. Dota but it's fixed by Baumi. Just regular dota with some of the things done your way (1 buyback, ward placement, etc)
glad you started to put the thumbs up reminder in the middle of the video. i always mean to like vids but i just forget
Baumi so pissy about the skele bois
Heeeeyyy yessss more boosted doto
"you guys are above average" me sitting at 700 mmr
I disagree with Baumi in that it's the fault of the game for not making warding as fun. At this point it feels pretty much 99% on the playerbase. In most matches I've played (not very recent, around a year or two ago) people genuinely cared about warding, myself included. It's a good way to get kills, stay safe and win the game. Once you know that, you can either do it or complain that no one's doing it that's pretty much on the player.
Baumi, nowadays ppl don’t really hate warding. Carries just die and blame supports when they venture into the dark and die. It’s not that supports done like buying wards cos they have so much incentive to do so.
Bruh no offence but how do you know people dont place wards if you dont even play dota
Delirium_staff is quite delirious. he's acting like warding is a support only duty and nobody in the game besides the supports should place them.
"Gonna doodle with my noodle"
🤨
Edit: Ah I see even automod agrees
Baumi, where's the marci 1x6 and literally 3 hours of primal beast 1x6 video?
Btw did you play the new overthrow 3
Baumiiiii good evening
what happened to 1x6? did xeno delete again?
how about Naix Infesf + Granny Belly + Pudge Belly + Phoenix Supernova?
This new Tahm kench skin is odd looking.
if mmr goes from 0 to 5k 2500 is median mmr, there are surely more players under that than over. that means the average player is lower, maybe 1500 mmr
or just where did u get that stat?
sure doesn't work like that: mean and median are counted from distribution of values. And the median is exactly the rating which has an equal amount of players above and below. What you are talking about is mean or average, but you have to see some statistics to make claims
and yeah, Baumi also doesn't say his source, guess that's more of a compliment than a research
the title should be snapfire gave a rain of fire
nvm was early on the vid
I tried SDA and i must admit, its really Relaxing. Great music.
Make 1x6 with marcii plsssss !!!
Does this game have increased base stats?
At the end I just realized that baumi has 8k hp
not exactly
there's an increase in raw hp per minute
MOOOOREEEEEEEEEE
Second time asking for dota Boosted but reverse, so get opposite upgrades
Yes people do fuck up the game in overthrow 3 😁
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY BOOSTED
I would pay to play the sewerslidal chicken game. Will you make it happen?
Mooore
I kind of agree with Baumi on the wards thing. Before playing League, I placed 0 wards in Dota like I don't even think about it and if I do, I just say "someone else is gonna buy and use it" and go on playing. After playing League though, since I was a support player and warding is a essential thing there, when I came back to playing Dota with my friends, I started placing wards and me and my teammates died less from ganks. To me, I feel like most Dota players consider wards as that tool you bought just for one thing and probably won't use again but if you need to, it's there kind of thing
The fact that YOU learned wards are important from League doesnt mean Baumi is right. Im most of my ranked games wards are always sold out, I also checked my friends matches (herald btw) and they also ward a lot.
To me the problem seems to be that most people dont care to watch a high mmr replay from a pro player perspective. For example, if you had done that you would have learned the value of wards in 30 minutes instead of leaning it in what i can assume were many hours of playing league
What's the name of this mod? help!
Dota 2 but boosted
Just type boosted in the lobby list and you should find it
@@ggfargo thank you mate
ugaaaaa
so like, is 1x6 back? or is it down again? what happened?
I think baumi just tired of playing it and the build just doesn't work or something
@@inmuyataz ahh ok then, I just kinda assumed some kind of drama was happening with it, thanks for the info though
Baumi needs to just stop assuming that his opinions are always correct and stop talking down to people who disagree with him. Like every time it's always " you're actually wrong and you don't even know why you're wrong because *I* am the one that has the facts"....
19:57 - You mean you don't like QA? hahaha. There has to be a balance Baumi. Both why it should work and why not are integral to good product development. I don't like when people say "I don't like when people say no" instead of asking "why not?". It is a sign of narrow-mindedness.
Another thing, some players don't click with some games. Sometimes players (who lack a sense of awareness) want a game tailored to their preference which in turn completely misses the mark of the challenge the developer had in mind. You should know this since you make games. I am sure you make your games based on your idea, and hopefully take feedback to heart and mix it with a bit of "I need to make sure the essence of this game remains unchanged." If games were changed to fit what most players think the game should be, we would have a bunch of FPSs and a lack of diversity.
33:46 - I agree. Many people believe the world stretches as far as their eyes can see and everything there is to know fits in their tiny head. They don't consider that "Hey, the actual player-base is much larger than this community. I don't ,and probably never will, play against any of these pros which in turn are really only 0.005% of the total Dota2 player-base.". This happens with everything in the world and life, regrettably.
I would say that wards have a hidden effect.
It makes it so that supportiv players have a higher win rate.
So it just is in the game so that toxic players have a harder time.
Wards is definitely a player based issue, higher mmr players understand the importance of wards, lower mmr players do not (Or how to use them correctly), saying that its not a player issue is like saying stacking, pulling, lane equilibrium , rosh plays and countless other mechanics are bad, there are plenty of mechanics players ignore, just turns out if you learn to play the game better, mechanics become more engaging and more important.
changing wards to poop based wards, or unlimited wards with a cooldown is one way of dealing with it, but it wouldnt work for dota as a game, would work for custom games, but not the actual game, and a lot of these changes will make wards more engaging for lower skilled players as a whole yes, but in high skill games it would completely break the game, and in pro games, I dont even know
Basically... Copy how league does wards.
In my opinion meta is ruining the game. Having a player on support is the dumbest thing. It may work in competitive, but in normal Dota it's just sad.
Everyone should ward and deward, and everyone should do whatever they want actually. If you find yourself cursing at someone for something that he does, you better uninstall this game and take a walk...
Okay guys watch dota match 6620932669
Its turbo but why does this idiots exist in life
Its very funny from not player perspective
Trolls 3 times sf ulti anf storm spirit goes straight to 9 talisman
And they say its turbo and its for fun bla bla bla they dont know its dota but faster...