Obscure Weapons: Chinese Bar Mace (Tiěbiān 鐵鞭)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2025
- Obscure Weapons: Chinese Bar Mace (Tiěbiān 鐵鞭). More info at Mandarin Mansion: www.mandarinma...
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As Chinese, I think "Chinese Bar Mace"(鐵鞭/鐵鐧)is actually quite accurate translation, I had never thought about it before, far more accurate than "Chinese sword breaker" or "Chinese truncheon". But just a small correction, there are two basic types of Chinese bar mace, the one with "round" shape truncheon is called 鐵鞭(Tie Bian = Iron Whip); the one with "square" shape truncheon is called 鐵鐧(Tie Jian = Iron Square Truncheon), like the examples show in your video. Both are anti-armor weapons, but they are still a bit different and shouldn't be mixed up.
How was his pronunciation?
@@thedamnyankee1 the pronounciation is off but bearable
Yes, technically. But it is in fact a sword breaker. One is a direct translation, and one is a description.
A Jian is a sword.
@@davidgeldner2167 A jiàn 劍 is a sword. A jiǎn 鐧 is a square bar mace.
Another advantage to this bar mace is ease of carry-you can wear it sheathed like a sword and draw it quickly. A normal mace tucked upright into your belt would be more uncomfortable to wear and takes longer to grab in a hurry; a normal mace hanging upside down from a loop could be grabbed more easily, but would bang into things.
this!
Or you could lock two shorter maces behind your neck along your armor - it's apparently a fad in the Tang! (Check "Longest Day in Chang'an" videos for example)
I definitely love the idea of using it as a side weapon
A lot of people have actually seen this weapon, or at least a version of it, in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
It’s one of the weapons Michelle Yeoh uses against Zhang Ziyi in the multi weapon fight near the end of the movie. Even the Green Destiny has a hard time withstanding being repeatedly bashed by one.
They also appear in a few of the Shaw Brothers and others' martial arts movies of the late 70's through the 80s. First one that came to mind was "Golden Swallow." A Chang Cheh film from '68.
They feature prominently in the Detective Dee series of films (and presumably the novels they are based on).
@@zenhydra Cool. I have two of the Detective Dee DVDs, waiting to be watched. I'll have to check that out.
I first saw them in the original Dynasty Warriors fighting game. One of the characters dual wielded these maces.
@@zenhydra Dee is unarmed in the novels. The novels are like Poirot style detective books set in Tang China.
It's like a jian had a baby with a baton! A graceful way to beat someone to death by mimicking the prestige of wielding a jian. Good find Mr. Easton!
I think we can all agree that there's nothing worse than a graceless beating.
@@Gorboduc No harm done to extend some courtesy to someone you are killing.
A Chinese man walked into a bar wearing one of these weapons...
The barman said to him "Why the long Mace?"
Oh god I love thid
🏆 First prize ! 🏆
Interesting! At first glance I thought the idea of a bar mace would be strictly worse at its job than a mace with some kind of head, but I didn't consider the deception aspect. It would be a hell of a surprise to think you're about to engage an enemy soldier with a sword and proceed to get your guard completely smashed through by a weapon multiple times heavier than you were anticipating
An í interesting idea, but I do wonder if the weapon was so obscure in the period(s) and places they were used that they actually came as a suprise when encountered on the battlefield.
I rather doubt it. After all it is a simple design and was widely used.
@@edzejandehaan9265 That's a really good point. If they were any kind of common I'd imagine you're right. It just seems like the type of weapon that's specific enough to not show up very regularly to me. That being said, my knowledge of Chinese weaponry is minimal, so I am definitely not qualified to say how common they would have been.
I would personally imagine that even though it wouldn't do the greatest as far as shear damage goes its still good enough to get the job done and besides even though a mace with a head is more effective when it hits with the top with a bar mace or something like that you probably get a more uniform level of damage regardless of where you hit even though with any mace or even a stick I would imagine that the damage you do is always going to be more devastating when you connect with what your hitting towards the end.
@@edzejandehaan9265 I'll try to share context on how obscure/common these were. I believe these are not common, but well-known and recognizable; exotic might be the right word. They are definitely not common as swords, spears, glaives, which are mainstay weapons for either civilian or military use. However, they are often depicted in (pre-modern) Chinese plays, novels, and paintings. In fact a Chinese door guardian (painting of a deified folk hero hanging by the door) is often depicted to duel-wield a pair of these. So while a commoner will likely not have access to these, they will likely recognize one when they see it.
If you hit with a normal mace you would do some damage, but most maces were not that heavy. If you hit with the shaft it is likely that much less damage would ensue.
This gives you a better chance of doing damage with any hit plus it can block your enemies attacks too.
Against thieves or rioters it might enable punishing but not killing blows.
the reason this weapon was use by bodyguards, guards, special forces is because the tie bien (or literally translated as iron whip) like its modern counter part the police baton is rather a subduing weapon to capture people alive rather then a battlefield weapon
It was actually used on the battlefield too. The law-enforcement version was significantly lighter. The battlefield version was used by special forces who operated on the battlefield, not bodyguards
It was also illegal for civilians to own swords for large periods of Chinese history. Spears, knives & clubbing weapons were allowed.
@@namminh7574womder if they where more likley to have a point for thrusting
Thanks for this very informative video introducing this iconic Chinese arm. They are also called "bian" pronounced as "bee-an" but really fast and fluent. Its Chinese character shares the meaning with the whip, but like any other language, one word can have different meanings given different contexts. They are referred to as the "tie bian" ("tie" means "iron") probably to differentiate it from the usual flexible whips to highlight its rigidity.
Yeah they are indeed used by elite troops and people in positions of authority, as this weapon sometimes symbolize authority particularly in military context. I think it essentially works like the steel bar Matthew Jensen uses to break swords in this videos, but with a sword hilt. I think you are definitely right on about tricking the opponent into parrying or attacking with a sword blade and damaging it by creating a chip or crack, or just blowing through their guard. It's going to be quite effective against Chinese lamellar armor and triangular maille armor.
Perhaps english translations use "whip" as a general but misleading translation. In spanish it would be very odd to call the weapon 'látigo' (stereotipical whip; Indiana Jones whip), but calling it a 'fusta' (a specific kind of whip) would be adequate.
in old time people would use a bamboo stick as horse whip, maybe it meant to be a combat whip of that type?
@@rikospostmodernlife It's literally the exact same word used for various types of leather or hempen whips that were historically used by herders, coachmen, police (often for crowd control or subduing drunks or as a form of legal punishment), and in folk rituals throughout Chinese history.
So yeah the word literally means "whip".
People should remember that not all cultures classify weapons the same way. The way a culture classifies various objects depends greatly on historical circumstance. Personally I think Peter Dekker's claim of the term being applied to certain types of bar mace / truncheon having come from the use of dried bull pizzles for whipping people as a form of legal punishment (or by local police for subduing people, both things flexible leather or hemp whips as well as steel or iron bar maces were also used for.) seems quit likely. Although I'm not sure what evidence he is basing that on.
The term Bian is still used today to refer to the harvested male genitals of animals, in addition to it's use to describe both bar maces and various flexible weapons both woven and segmented.
@@rikospostmodernlife Yeah it doesn't should not translate into whip in English. Bar Mace is an excellent descriptive translation.
@@hanliu3707 Interestingly, I have seen a couple of examples that were made to look like iron bamboo.
I have also seen modern copies for sale in pairs but have so far not seen anything to indicate dual wielding use.
In many historical Chinese films, Tie Bian are seen used as a badge of authority.
This weapon can date back up to Sui and Tang Dynasty, when heavy armored shock cavalry dominated the battlefield. It was mostly used as secondary weapon when the main weapon, mostly lance, breaks. Records show that some skilled generals can grab and take away opponents' lance and hit them with Bian.
Gene Wolfe's 'The Knight' features one of these in the hands of the protagonist. The context is that he needs to pass as a knight, but has made an oath not to bear any sword until he acquires one particular sword.
The first time he uses the bar mace, the result leaves him vomiting.
Why is he vomiting? Did he hit himself on the head, was the results on others too gruesome, or was it physically exhausting to use?
Thought of this book immediately when he started talking about the mace....
@@Intranetusa The second.
@@Misericorde9 Thanks
To be fair, the results of a sword would be equally gruesome.
Great video! There is a lot to say about these weapons! I will have to make a video on them sometime! I feel like the large two-handed versions would be particularly intimidating and useful in combat.
So like a metal Kanabo?
@@adambielen8996 Kind of, but it tapers to the point, so the point of balance will not be as far away from the hands as a traditional club.
@@adambielen8996 Kanabo is more similar to Chinese wolf teeth club(狼牙棒) , 訶藜棒(He Li Club) and 棒槌(Club Hammer).
I'm happy to see this weapon, which I did already know about, featured here. Curiously, one 16th-century European sources for combat between fully armored men-at-arms doesn't favor the impact weapon (warhammer, in this case) over the sword. Juan Quijada de Reayo instructed to first use the heavy lance, then when that breaks to draw the estoc, then when the estoc is lost or breaks, to draw the arming sword, then when the arming sword is lost or breaks to turn to the hammer, & finally to the dagger if the hammer is lost. Quijada de Reayo may have considered the arming sword's superior reach & ability to thrust at gaps more valuable than the warhammer's percussive effect. Earlier, Pietro Monte wrote highly of the warhammer used in both hands from the saddle but didn't give a clear order of progression like Quijada de Reayo.
I've always assumed that without a cutting blade, an estoc would be quite useful for burder blows if you needed a purcussive weapon too.
That’s the weapon bestowed to Detective Dee Renjie by the Emperor Gaozong, in the series of movies dedicated to him. The weapon is known in the franchise as the Dragon Taming Mace
Some of the bian (the lighter, thinner, tapered & sharp pointed ones) I think we're in many ways used like an estoc.
The heavier thicker bians were definitely clubs.
The notches will also concentrate the impact force on small contract points, increasing the effectiveness in damaging armor. This might also have been a consideration.
The hero of Gene Wolfe's Wizard Knight used a weapon he called Sword Breaker. It didn't have the deep notches along the edge such as on a conventional sword breaker, it was more like the bar mace you display, just a bar with crisp square edges. It was hilted like a sword.
This was also my first introduction to the weapon, and I've been a fan ever since!
One of the things that makes a huge difference in modern vs old heat treatment is the quality of tempering. Tempering does a lot more than most people realize. First tempering is a function of both time and temperature with temperature having a much larger influence on metal than time does. There are 2 ways to control hardness as well and the temperature and hold time of the blade are very important as well. When making a sword toughness becomes really important and for best toughness you need to control both closely. I don't know how complex heat treatment recipes were back then. If anyone has information about that in a historical source I would be very interested. Simple hardening tops out at about .7-.8% and after that hold time at temperature is need for both carbon and alloy to go into solution. 10 degrees can make a difference in toughness and modern test using the Mark l eyeball can only keep things in about a 200 degree range as our eyes adjust to the light. The classic way to temper was to watch the oxide colors form on the steel. This can get you very close on temperature if you know what those colors are but once they form there is no way to know what the temperature is for a hold time. Steel can loose toughness along with hardness if its overtempered. A modern heat treatment for a simple carbon steel after forging will start with 2 or 3 normalizing cycles to remove stress and reduce grain size as well as setting it up to respond well to the quench. Forging has to be done at temperature that will make grain grow and large grain size makes for a brittle blade. And then if it has high carbon or alloy it will need to be held for several minutes at a specific temperatures then quenched. We usually have a minimum of two temper cycles with the first being at least an hour. Tempering will finish converting the austinite to martinsite and a single short temper will leave both untempered martensite along with some austinite in the blade. Some of that retained austinite can later convert as the blade is flexed leaving more of that untempered martensite in the blade. A hobby maker who can use his kitchen oven for tempering will be able to produce a much tougher blade even if he used the same steel. We often talk about the quality of steel as being a large factor in the blades but most people never realize how much the lack of any temperature control back then would have affected a blade. Given that they would have had no way of having control of alloy and the entire heat treatment had to be done by eye its likely that the toughness was much lower than even our replica blades bases on modern heat treatment knowledge. The only thing they likely would have had going for them is that their steels were so simple most would not have through hardened in the thicker sections although that means even spring temperwd blades could also have bent. I would guess that they only had 10-20%the toughness of a modern blade at best. Breaking a sword should have been very possible.
I would be very interested in any sources about how they performed heat treatment in the past in any culture.
Timing was controlled by smiths being trained to speak (lowly) words with a specific speed, and specific length. This is known from early middle ages europe and African cultures, and was treated as secret (as the exact timing is essential). Apparently this in turn was interpreted as smiths murmuring spells (and maybe understood by themselves as such as well, who knows).
Also tightly controlled was knowledge of producing charcoal - you need to know your coal in order to be able to control temperature precisely enough. With that toolset, and enough experience, precise, reproducible results were definitely possible - but only for smiths with the knowledge of course.
TL:DR that please?
I won't lie I'm a bit lost.
I assume all period swords would only break and not bend, is that correct? Because I imagine a bent sword could less useful than a chipped one.
@@j3i2i2yl7 Depends on the period, and circumstance. But breaking swords are a very expensive and bad thing, because almost impossible to replace (or even repair, because you need a smith with the knowledge, and a smithy available). So you want a sword to be hard enough to do it's job, but supple enough to not break or lose material due to a bad strike. Example: Roman reports of Celtic warriors straightening their blades in battle (no smith needed for that -> good). The same thinking is true for axeblades and (scrama)saxes: as long as it doesn't break, or lose material, you can easily fix it yourself out on the trail. So tempering is a risky proposition beyond the absolutely necessary. So the hardness and thickness of the armour to be overcome defines the optimal tempering. (sidenote: swords were usually not the main weapon - lances/spears were until very late in history)
@@phonepoies Thank you. Great answer.
These weapons didn't start out as maces, but are actually estocs that gradually evolved over time to become maces/truncheons. If you've seen the surviving Song dynasty museum pieces, their purpose is quite clearly thrust centric which given that armor coverage in China at the time was at it's maximum makes sense.
Not really, 鐵鞭/鐧 appear far earlier than Song dynasty which are already mace-club type of weapon from the beginning, they became popular military weapons since Tang dynasty or early period, some have sharp tips, some don't. There is a Tang dynasty bar mace stored in Xuzhou museum look very similar to later ones.
I have been aware and in love with this kind of weapon for many years now. It is often referred to as a sword breaker at least in the Chinese movies i have watched. The Chinese character Detective Dee uses one in his role as an officer of the court against various criminal schemes. Think of him as a Chinese ancient Sherlock Holmes character.
Not in Robert van Gulik’s books he doesn’t !
@@CrimeVid Fair enough. i haven't read the books.
Huh. Most of the translations that I have seen called it his 'Dragon-Taming Mace'.
@@NevisYsbryd Can't say i have seen that translation.
I was just thinking if Detective Dee. The most recent film had these stupid spinning parts on it that made it create shockwaves…
Honestly as much as I love swords staffs and stick weapons have always resonated more. So this is a nice functional balance
Very cool video! I'm only familiar with these through old books and films. From what I know in part of the old martial arts folklore; they were as you mentioned, prestige weapons to a degree; often signifying government office in a civic capacity.
The blunt force of these didn't make them any less lethal from what I've read, though sometimes there's reference to them being using for forcing submission through pain and shock. I'd wager being hit with one, even in armor, would not be a pleasant experience.
I'm just glad you continue to provide a very worldly and scholarly introduction to so many Chinese weapons of which the general Western world knows precious little. It's nice to see them becoming more recognized and gain acceptance and popularity in pop culture, as people begin to recognize them!
The Chinese had a bewildering variety or bar mace / truncheon type weapons under a wide variety of names.
These weapons were very popular throughout most of the last 2 millennia of Chinese history and many different types and variations were used and developed for military, law enforcement, ceremonial, and civilian use.
Many different types of these weapons are still used in traditional folk martial arts preserved across China.
Generally these came under 3 different names 鞭 Bian, 锏 Jian, and 尺 Chi. But just like their forms there were almost limitless variations on their names (though most of the time they included one of the 3 characters above.)
Me, having played thousands of hours of Dynasty Warriors: "Oh, Taishi Ci's weapons."
Also popular among medieval Chinese policemen, sort of a "stun gun". Not that it stuns, but a better chance to arrest the bad guy alive.
Yes! Thank you for covering this, Matt 😁👍
These are amongst my favorite ancient Chinese weapons along with the Meteor hammer.
From what I´ve read, there were two types of that kind of weapon - one being rigid (probably Bian Gan or Tie Yian), it´s that you are speaking about, the second partly articulated (Ying Bian, "rigid whip").
I am familiar with these being sold as "sword breakers", such as the one by cold steel.
I was going to say the same thing. Also I've seen English bar maces before.
@@arc0006 My Cold Steel "Chinese Sword Breaker" is very similar to my rondel dagger, only longer. No edge on the angular blade and comes to a fine stabbing point. Both will punch through chain mail as well as chip and shatter enemy blades in a clash.
Thank you for covering these, they're so awesome! IIRC I've seen a sort of quiver holding multiple of them, but those were more Persian in origin.
Very interesting, informative and worthwhile video.
so Tiebian means literally "Iron Whip". "Whip" is probably better expressed as "goad", the word seems to be used for both hard or flexible things for slapping animals. The ribbed ones are tiebian, the ones that are like a dished obelisk are actually called "jian" but spelled with a different character and probably have a different tonal pronunciation than the sword "jian". Apparently, some of the old documents call it a "Cast Away Mace", meaning "Throwing Mace". I think they were obviously designed for normal bonking, but could be thrown at someone in a pinch.
Given the sturdiness of it, it might be a solid weapon for people who practice with heavier blades, but are in an area where they aren't allowed to carry an actual sword.
I was completely unaware of this weapons existence. Thank you for making this!
if they where used by guard i could see them being use to control someone without killing them the same way the police would use a long telescopic baton.
I have seen records saying this kills people. It actually serves the same functuon as a mace, just a little nimbler to handle
all the text record of it is very brutal though, definitely meant to be a lethal weapon
It's essentially an iron staff, and thus has the same traits as a wooden staff, even if to an exaggerated degree. Such as being good at breaking bones & bruising flesh, whether that bone and flesh be of the less-fatal region of the lower legs, or the more-fatal regions of the head and neck. For a skilled practitioner, a range of severities would be possible.
I've seen a different Chinese bar mace that looked like the stem of a rose bush. It was thicker but looked still slender compared to a regular mace, yet it was absurdly heavy and unwieldy!
some of them are deliberately made heavier, some with a hollow iron tube which would then be filled with lead
Well really that's just adding to the sentiment that a stick is a pretty decent weapon - this is like stick 2.0!
And the weapon still lives on in the contemporary form of the anti-riot baton.
I can only think of one Chinese movie where I might have seen one of these in use. In Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon during the famous training room scene Yu Shu Lien keeps needing to use various weapons from the racks as Jen keeps cutting through them with the Green Destiny. If I'm remembering correctly, the second to last weapon that Yu uses looks like a bronze version of the bar mace. It was very robust in make so it was able to take considerable damage before the sword severed it.
it can be made out of either iron/steel, bronze, or wood with reinforced metal parts
Really an amazing job for you to cover something rarely know but interesting!
Going to have a lot of the same advantages that a regular club has vis-a-vis a traditional mace, most notably being able to strike with a far longer part of the weapon. And if a wooden club (studs or spikes optional) can breach armour, I'd expect a solid steel bar to be able to do the same. Though I do wonder if, as some commentators have noted, this was used by bodyguards because you could, at least in theory, subdue somebody nonlethally.
more like you could potentially strictly aim for the weapons, and disarm them, then capture them alive
I'm pretty sure the first ever scholagladiatoria video I ever watched was telling me that medieval swords weren't blunt instruments for bashing people in armour. A decade leter he tells me about a square proflie weapon with a hilt, kept in a scabard that's used to bash people in armour
Always liked this design of weapon. Faster, more sword-like movements, the ability to sharpen the end into a spike, and the ability to swing much faster than a traditional mace.
I also wonder if weapons like this and the "swordbreaker" might have been used to disarm enemies by striking their blades enough that hand shock would force them to lower or drop said blades?
Probably. Even with equal weapons you can do this to create openings, especially if you hit your opponent on the outside with a lot of force while he/she isn't preparing for a solid parry. It works pretty well
The bulges or sections as you refer to them also probably help concentrate force on a smaller area. It's like having several smaller mace heads along the shaft where than just one at the end.
Pieter Dekker's resources on Manchu archery are fascinating! I would recommend that Matt check it out as he is an archery enthusiast too. A completely different method and equipment than typical longbow culture that us English speakers are familiar with.
I always thought of it as a Chinese estoc with the ability for blunt force trauma.
This is a great mix of blunt and stabbing weapon in one, especially useful for cavalry if you consider the amount of force the momentum of a horse can generate to the tip of the mace, resulting in absolute puncture of 99% of armor they would face in ancient China.
That's a great point, actually. Pun intended.
The one presented here is blunt at the end, but I could easily see that being sharpened into a point, giving the weapon prodigious piercing capability, considering that it's likely also on the heavier side.
As you've pointed out, this could also work from horseback, though a lance would still be easier to connect with consistently due to the difference in size. Still, a useful sidearm for a horseman.
They also have an armor piercing point, something a normal mace usually didn’t.
I read a story about a Knight that swore never to use a sword again but found he needed a weapon to protect someone important to him and he found a mace about 40 inches in length and 2 to 3 inch by 1/4 inch thick heavily engraved with battle scenes. I looked for something like this in the historical record but could only find the standard stick with a lump of meatal on the end.
As MG47 has stated most of it I’m just gonna add up a tidbit. 锏/鐧is not necessarily squared. 李纲锏（Lǐ Gāng’s jiǎn, from Song dysnasty）has triangular cross section. It was mostly an armor breaker. But you can always sharpen its edges for cutting force. The weapon at 4:42 is called 十手(Jutte), used by polices in Japan, the side branch was for blocking and hooking a blade, much shorter in size than a 锏. Yet I am not sure if a two-handed 锏ever existed before Qing dynasty, didn’t find much info about it.
In popular literature Gene Wolfe's weird and wonderful _Wizard Knight_ books featured a knight who for various reason was forbidden the use of swords and was required to take on all challengers at a crossroads for a year. He carried a bar mace described almost exactly as the one you picture. Of course, this was Gene Wolfe, so naturally it was unusual and well-researched. And a masterfully-written treasure of prose
That's the main weapon of Détective Dee in the chinese movies and I suppose in the novels too. Cool video as always.
You brought up something that I was going to mention. A replica maker markets one of these in their catalogue as a SWORD BREAKER. European Sword Breakers tended to have a blade catcher and breaker. This Chinese one is more efficient as it does not have hook like catchers like the European counterpart.
I’d want mine to have a sharp point, so I could have the option to thrust. It would be like a massive rondel dagger, a rondel sword, if you will.
Also very similar to an estock, at that point, as well.
You lose a lot of percussive force due to the tapering at the top.
@@martytu20 but you have greater maneuverability than typical top heavy mace plus range advantage.
Confucius is believed to once have said: "in ancient times true gentlemen compromised the advantages of a sword for not getting the advantages of a proper mace".
Reminds me of Polish Koncerz - another long, blunt hilted weapon. I'd guess it also shares main mode of attack that wasn't mentioned here - if you sharpen the tip, you have weapon that can be used not only as a mace, but also something with long reach, like rapier, that can be used to stab armoured opponent in the neck or arm joint, possibly bypassing chainmail by breaking link too...
Koncerz was used on a horseback as an equivalent of a lance . I dont see it being similar.
There are also description of some TieJian with a point at the end to enable the user to thrust with it. There are also description of this dual-wielded or even thrown. Which contributed to the term 撒手锏 which means like a surprise winning technique.
The (combative) versions are extremely heavy, especially in pairs. It would absolutely be a strength-conditioning method for swordsmen looking to improve the particular attribute. I would love to see more testing regarding the "blade-breaking" capabilities. I suppose even taking a deep set or edge roll might take away much of the sword's efficacy.
Nice video. I have the Colt Steel version of this. They named it "Sword-Breaker".
Thank you for making this enlightening video. I once had a thought that if a zweihander has enough mass behind its blade to knock someone in full armor off balance even if the blade itself cant cut through the plate, then a 2 handed sword with a thicker, heavier but blunt blade can be used as an effective bludgeoning anti-armor weapon, more nimble than a typical mace but more powerful than a sword. It may look like a non-lethal law-enforcement weapon, but it is in fact a powerful military weapon designed to kill
Similar weapons are mentioned in Eastern Roman sources like the "Praecepta Militaria" of Nicephoros Phocas (Strategikè ékthesis kaì syntaxis Nikephórou despótou in Greek). These are called σιδεροράβδιον (literally "iron bar") and σπαθοβάκλιον (from the latin words "spatha" and "baculus"=rod, staff, so something like "rod-sword"). They are to be used with a shield against armored troops so both are are probably one-handed percussive weapons.
Shad: "Stick. Good. Metal. Stick. Even better. Huge . Metal stick. The best"
On pronounciation, first let me say that I am not a native Chinese nor a native Taiwanese, but this comes from my own experience with speaking Mandarin. The spelling "Tiěbiān" appears to be a pinyin transliteration of the chinese characters. To pronouce this using the pinyin is a bit tricky for English speaking people because the phonetics used are a tad different than we use, especially here in the U.S.
The closest I can share with my English speaking (non-Chinese speaking) bretheren is to first understand that those symbols over the e and a are not our normal vowel sounds. They are inflection marks indicating a descending/rising vocal sound on the first syllable Tiě and a flat (slightly higher than mid-voice) inflection on the second syllable biān. This being said, for us English speakers and our purposes these can be almost ignored (unless your talking to a native chinese speaker, in which case he'll look at you funny). These inflections are actually part of the identification of the word, various inflections being completely different words. But for us... well, we won't hear or realize the difference. And if you really want to burn your English noodle, the first fall/rising tone would, to the English ear, be altered to more of a falling tone, recovering with that same slightly higher than mid-tone on bian.
The word Tiěbiān is actually two words, Tiě and biān. Tiě is generally pronouced "tee-yeah" as one word and likely refers to it being made of "iron" or some other iron alloy. The second word biān might sounds like "bee-yen," refering to "whip" in a basic sense. I have hyphenated both of these pronunciations, but in speaking they would both be spoken smoothly, no pausing as in one syllable. The entire two syllables would sound to us as if it is one word.
So: Teeyeah-beeyen (spoken smoothly) might be a close English approximation to the sounds.
All in all the explanation here sounds far more complex than it really is. It's a LOT more complicated to write this than it is to just listen to it. If you'd like to hear it spoken, just take the traditional characters in the original notes and put them into Google Translate which did a good job of speaking it with the little speaker icon.
Hope this helps!
this weapon shows up in several dynasty warriors games; one of the bow characters uses one as sort of a paired thing with his bow, zhuge dan had one in dw8, and taishi ci's weapons start off as those (though they get more garbage anime sized the higher rarity they are, to the point of basically being big dumb tree trunks).
Also referred to as a Chinese sword breaker and some had sharp tips for thrusting
1:16 : A stabible mace! What´s there not to like?! The one true shortcoming of a mace is overcome: Add a real point for stabbing actions.
The first thing that popped into my mind here is one of my guilty pleasures.... the Dynasty Warriors games. I forget who used these, but I remember at least one of the characters using them.
At some point peasants fought with wooden sticks like extra long baseball bats, and oh my god how horrific it must have been having hundreds of people smashing each other's heads with big sticks.
Heh it’s interesting to see all the folks not remembering that a club or hammer can make armor and weapons vibrate after being correctly hit. The sword handle might make that easier to accomplish. Enough vibration in a weapon makes it difficult to hold onto. Not sure if it’s a nerve thing or increase muscle fatigue. I can imagine getting hit in a helmet with one of those would be deafening and nauseating like wearing a bell or concert speaker. Would be interesting to see how Matt as a fencer defends against a disarm from one of these.
The traditional Mace, a wooden bar with a shaped metal or stone head, (even hard wood) is a very interesting weapon. Coming in various styles, some with spiked balls in chains for kinetic energy smashing, or a blunt bladed series of panels, the mace is a devastating blunt force weapon and must have looked very scary in the hands of a big strong warrior type of man. One hit could kill you. A glancing blow to an unprotected head would knock you out of your senses, right at a very bad time for that to happen. Good to the weilder but big trouble to the target.
For Mandarin pronunciation you can use Google translate. Copy and paste Chinese ideographs and it will sounds it out for you. If you're using the Android app you can do live translate from your camera or load a photo/screenshot - this was indispensible on a Hong Kong trip... Couldn't read the menus, was hungry.
It won't give you Cantonese pronunciation, tho. For some reason they decided it's not Chinese enough? I dunno.
Works for many other languages, too.
This looks like a really cool weapon. Great design!
I remember a few years ago I saw a chinese movie about an inspector who used one of these as his signature weapon. Unfortunately I don't recall his name. Inspector Wu or something.
Everybody gangsta until Jackie Chan shows up with some fancy-handled rebar...
Ah yes but in Japan a Katana would just cut right through it, cos we all know Katanas are light sabres.
The cross section of the 铁鞭 may come in : rounded bar or bar with sides (either triangle, square, four pointed star)
The segment of the 铁鞭 may look : bulging out (like stacking up balls) or concave (like bamboo segment)
铁鞭 has pointed-end or blunt end. If it is a round bar, it may have a conical end. To determine where the point is (especially for blunt end 铁鞭), just see the end of the repeating segment. You will notice that the repeating segment ends and after that it changes to another appearance.
The cross section can be combined with the segmenting style. As such, you can have round bar 铁鞭 that looks like stacking up balls or like bamboo rods. It is also possible to have sided-bar 铁鞭 with bulging out segment, like a pagoda.
The 锏 is much more simple. Some may have marked-segments, some others have no segment marking.
Personally (and this is well and truly a personal oppinion, not a fact by any measure) I think the design of the bar mace, given it is supposed to be used to weaken swords, makes a lot of sence. You focus a fair bit of force on a pretty slim area, while not having to worry about only hitting with the head. The weapon is, after all, supposed to "keep up" with very nimble weapons and thus has to be very maneuverable itself, which top-heavy weapons are not (or rather are not as nimble as a jian sword would be). This just stands to show how ingenious and goal-oriented people in the past were. I am truly amazed Matt, thank you for covering this weapon! :-O
Also, and on a bit of a side-note - doesn't the design remind you of telescopic batons and the slim, one-handed batons some police forces are using? 0_o
铁鞭 tiebian literally translates as "iron whip". An alternative name I've encountered is 锏 Jiǎn. The weapon appeared in the Chinese movie Detective Dee: The Four Heavenly Kings
There also exist at least one Ming era manual detailing the usage of such weapons. It's very interesting.
And you can put it in a scabbard, unlike a normal mace - which is really cool!
At first I was expecting it to be more like the Japanese jitte, and not near as sword-like. This was really very cool to learn a bit more about.
Amusingly i knew about this weapon thanks to the Dynasty warrior games. There is a character named Taishi ci there which uses two bar maces as his weapon of choice!
the sai also works in a similar principle to this weapon.
In Gene Wolfe's The Wizard Knight, the hero refuses for some time to carry a sword, but is encouraged to do so in order for him to be seen as a real knight. He settles on a "foreign" mace that others will think is a sword when looking at him. He names it "Sword Breaker."
I assume an item like this is where his inspiration came from.
Italian sword breaker brakes swords, Chinese sword breaker breaks swords.
@@bodyno3158 No arguments, most European bar maces I've seen do not LOOK like swords, this being my main point.
You gathered from my comment, based on your comment, that the story takes place in a European inspired environment - so I assume you read what I wrote. I can't assume other than you meant to correct me and simply chose to overlook the bulk of what I wrote.
@@fugglenumpty2619 Nothing bro just some... Strange connections about those "sword breakers".
The 锏 (Jian, not that slashy and stabby Jian, this Jian just smash) is usually translated as "Chinese sword breaker" in English, when you mentioned that the protag named a "foreign" mace that "looks like a sword" as "Sword Breaker", my brain just zaped, and a terrible joke jumped into my mind.
I bet Gene Wolfe knows about "Chinese sword breaker" so he implemented it into his novel, since it's indeed a cool and exotic weapon.
In old Chinese fiction, 锏 is usually the weapon for those selfless, righteous man who can deliver unprejudiced judgement, and when the bad guys refuse to receive thus said judgement, the man who's welding 锏 has the physical capability to SMASH them into submission.
In short, that weapon really fits a protagonist.
@@bodyno3158 Understood, my mistake.
Comments section is a rough spot for getting clear messages across. Sorry for the harshness.
Rebar with a hilt. Easy to make. Grind a point on it for half swording close ups
id love to see in a fantasy setting a character using a sword and bar mace like these with matching hilts.
I think the training of Chinese mace is like stick which the “stick” is heavier, ie it used lots of pacing during practical usage (though no one would train in pair with this due to heavy weight).
Very interesting, I have never heard of a mace that looks like a sword. It would be nice to add to my sword collection.
An interesting weapon. I didn't even know, that type of thing excited.
It won’t work against my giant swords lol
What a neat weapon. Need to get LK Chen to make one for us :)
It's not obscure at all in China, in fact it was a rather common form of medieval Chinese mace, often depicted in paintings or murals, and with surviving examples as well.
for those of you wondering, yes this is the same thing as the so-called Sword Breaker
There is a twin version of this 铁鞭, called 锏 (jian).
Both 铁鞭 and 锏 are usually used as pair (one on each hand with shorter grip). If it is a single version, it has a longer grip for two-handed use.
A-maze-ing piece of square bar!
Historically how does this compare, if at all, with things more commonly used as batons and similiar? This is the first I've heard of it so it is indeed quite interesting.
铁鞭 is the name, the ones made out of bronze called 铜鞭, also there's a similar weapon 锏. There are some historical manual of them iirc, you may want to have a search
Bar mace was probably more popular in the military than the mace in Chinese historical records, although both were used in the military. In fact, it was recorded that swords were used for non-armoured opponents, while bar maces were used against heavily armoured opponents. It is actually very lethal according to battle account such as this "若遇坚甲，连架击之，无有不毙者，且利于马战," which basically means when using bar mace against heavily armoured opponents, everyone dies from getting hit by it; therefore, it is very useful in cavalry battles.
Glad to see you showcasing this! Even many Chinese don't know much about this weapon as it is barely if at all represented in any media/fiction. I find it to be a super interesting design, although I will admit I don't know much about it either, which is why this video was a nice surprise! Would be interested to see a full length video about a replica of this to test it's utility.
I've also heard that the Bian was sometimes referred to as the Chinese sword breaker, although I am not sure on the accuracy/validity of that, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to seeing it's shape and design.
There had been not only swordcanes in victorian age, also here some canes contained a metal baton.
I wonder how much similarity one could find between bar maces and non edged swords such as the estoc?
As I do believe that there are both two handed versions and versions with a sharpened point.
They seem to be approaching the same goal from opposite directions for an armoured warrior to have a sidearm that can combat armoured warriors. The estoc as a sword redesigned for "half-swording", thus becoming a long iron rod and the bar mace designed to handle more like a sword.
Now This is a Weapon I can get behind ... Im not much for Sharp stuff, i enjoy Maces, Clubs and other Percussive type weaponry ... Not sure what it is but thats just how i roll . Thanks for Showing this . Cheers .
From your explanation it seems that the bar mace is better at destroying swords in combat while the lump mace is better at overcoming armour, is that correct?
they both can overcome armor through trauma and shock. The bar mace is a lot more nimbler than the traditional mace though, but it could hit a bit lighter.
If it has a sharpened tip, and you can stab a joint with it, it would have a lot greater reach and be a lot more dangerous than a lump mace to any armour, even a chainmail...
Holding it in reverse and you basically get a long handled standard mace with the heavy pommel acting as a mace head, just a speculation in its versatility if ever the wielder faced a heavily armored opponent or someone with a large shield or could be used as an improvised window or door wrecker like a crowbar for building infiltration.