Just a quick correction: at 6:36 I reference the BAY Streetcar still terminating at Caledonia Loop. This is incorrect as by the 1940's Caledonia Loop was gone and BAY Streetcars terminated at Earlscourt Loop.
Crazy how many of our current projects are just reclaiming what we already built but decided to rip up! Bonus points for how many of our current transit problems were already solved by past generations and we both have to rediscover the solutions and convince people that they actually work
Grew up just off St. Clair and watched the new right-of-way get built. It really is a great benefit to the community, although signal priority, an Eglinton reconnection and allowing revenue service back on Bathurst would all be amazing adds to this great midtown line. From what I understand the Bathurst issue is something to do with the new streetcars inability to deal with the steepness of the hill cresting Davenport, but its still used to get down to Hillcrest yard and Leslie barns so not quite clear why it couldn't be of used in the regular day-to-day.
Also, great video as always. You're doing amazing work to catalogue the history of transit in our city, in greater detail than anywhere else I've seen. Keep it up.
I remember reading a City plan to re-do the underpass at Scarlett Road and could have streetcars pass underneath that could hairpin east via Dundas or go west somewhere, or even loop with utilizing Jane Street as part of the on-street loop, IIRC. Either way, that also required CPKC to get on-board as well, and we all know how they like to work with transit agencies... Even then, I'm not sure where they are on that anymore.
The same was mentioned when the ttc had plans to extend the 512 to Jane Station where the underpass would be re-built. I think the Jane station idea is the weakest though because it would require an underground loop and isn't worth the cost. Besides, a Jane LRT or some kind of rapid transit on Jane street is still very much a real possibility in the future
I don't know where they get the timings on 512 streetcars; I live here and they're NOWHERE near as frequent as cited in these numbers, even worse now that shuttle buses have taken over from Lansdowne to Gunn's Loop.
13:21 I remember being on that charter. The passengers were very enthusiatic, rolling out paper plans for fantasy routes, etc. Years later when I replayed the videos I took, it quite struck me how "Wow, what a bunch of nerds we were!"
Until the Bloor - Danforth opened in 1966, the St. Clair car operated from the subway a 6 minute service in the rush hour to Keele and a 6 minute service to Northlands up Weston Road, Earlscourt operated a 3 minute service to Lansdowne and Rogers operated a a 3 minute service to Bicknell. Either St. Clair or Earlscourt would operate a 3 minute service up Mt. Pleasant to Eglinton. The TTC kept changing which line went where but on weekends only St. Clair ran.
I wish 512 would loop at Eglinton loop or around the high school next to it. Not so much for the transit benefit but Mt Pleasant would look much cool with a streetcar. I know it is not the right reason to install transit but would be cool.
@@MrEeeaddict What about an underground portal just east and west of scarlet, with a underground streetcar station like Queen's quay or Science center?
The St. Clair streetcar (& Spadina streetcar & The Queensway right-of-way) would be better if the city (and its Transportation Department) would give REAL transit priority at the traffic signal intersections. Currently, most of them give priority to the single-occupant automobiles turning left ahead of the 100+ on board the streetcars.
Back in the 60's I lived in North Toronto and could take the Nortown 61 trolley bus to Eglinton subway station. But I usually got off at Eglinton and Mt. Pleasant to transfer to the St. Clair streetcar and continue on to St. Clair subway station. Any chance to ride a streetcar!
jesus imagine if we kept these no wasted money rebuilding these all over again and imagine what it could have provide for I still remember them ripping of trails around keele and st clair west ward after the loop and one on weston road that actually went into the neighbor I used to lived which they slowly switched to electric buses that were connected to the cables and eventually ripped out the tracks and the wires and stop running a bus route that way near my old home
As a life-long Torontonian, a motorist, and one who lives near St. Clair, I have always been ambivalent about streetcars. I am all for separate right-of-ways, but not on major avenues. Spadina was fine, because its extra-wide. St. Clair, I must disagree with. All that work, just to save 8 minutes time along the route, hardly worth it. It has meant driving along St. Clair now takes twice as long, because of all the stoplights every few blocks. Not only stoplights, but extra-long stoplights, due to their multi-phase nature, left- turners first, then strait through traffic, its agonizingly slow & frustrating...
Just a quick correction: at 6:36 I reference the BAY Streetcar still terminating at Caledonia Loop. This is incorrect as by the 1940's Caledonia Loop was gone and BAY Streetcars terminated at Earlscourt Loop.
Crazy how many of our current projects are just reclaiming what we already built but decided to rip up! Bonus points for how many of our current transit problems were already solved by past generations and we both have to rediscover the solutions and convince people that they actually work
Wiser words have never been written...
Yea true
Grew up just off St. Clair and watched the new right-of-way get built. It really is a great benefit to the community, although signal priority, an Eglinton reconnection and allowing revenue service back on Bathurst would all be amazing adds to this great midtown line. From what I understand the Bathurst issue is something to do with the new streetcars inability to deal with the steepness of the hill cresting Davenport, but its still used to get down to Hillcrest yard and Leslie barns so not quite clear why it couldn't be of used in the regular day-to-day.
Also, great video as always. You're doing amazing work to catalogue the history of transit in our city, in greater detail than anywhere else I've seen. Keep it up.
The rare time I could get a streetcar at Bathurst station which was going north to St. Clair. I loved going up the steep hill north of Davenport.
Same here
I remember reading a City plan to re-do the underpass at Scarlett Road and could have streetcars pass underneath that could hairpin east via Dundas or go west somewhere, or even loop with utilizing Jane Street as part of the on-street loop, IIRC.
Either way, that also required CPKC to get on-board as well, and we all know how they like to work with transit agencies... Even then, I'm not sure where they are on that anymore.
The same was mentioned when the ttc had plans to extend the 512 to Jane Station where the underpass would be re-built. I think the Jane station idea is the weakest though because it would require an underground loop and isn't worth the cost. Besides, a Jane LRT or some kind of rapid transit on Jane street is still very much a real possibility in the future
@@stinkyroadhog1347 Assuming the jane lrt is made with ttc gauge, it is a possibility in the future.
I don't know where they get the timings on 512 streetcars; I live here and they're NOWHERE near as frequent as cited in these numbers, even worse now that shuttle buses have taken over from Lansdowne to Gunn's Loop.
13:21 I remember being on that charter. The passengers were very enthusiatic, rolling out paper plans for fantasy routes, etc. Years later when I replayed the videos I took, it quite struck me how "Wow, what a bunch of nerds we were!"
Until the Bloor - Danforth opened in 1966, the St. Clair car operated from the subway a 6 minute service in the rush hour to Keele and a 6 minute service to Northlands up Weston Road, Earlscourt operated a 3 minute service to Lansdowne and Rogers operated a a 3 minute service to Bicknell. Either St. Clair or Earlscourt would operate a 3 minute service up Mt. Pleasant to Eglinton. The TTC kept changing which line went where but on weekends only St. Clair ran.
yay!!
I wish 512 would loop at Eglinton loop or around the high school next to it. Not so much for the transit benefit but Mt Pleasant would look much cool with a streetcar. I know it is not the right reason to install transit but would be cool.
I know right
The Eglinton Crosstown has become the St.Clair fiasco!
St. Clair was quite fast compared to what Eglinton has become
I just hope the corss town ends up as well used and loved by its area.
@@jp-ui6qg It definitely will but we'll never forget the 12 + years of finger pointing, lies and issues
Hear me out: extend the 512 to Kipling, it has the infrastructure that could be used for a streetcar terminus
how? you'd have to use dundas and some how deal with the rail bridge
@@MrEeeaddict What about an underground portal just east and west of scarlet, with a underground streetcar station like Queen's quay or Science center?
@@MrEeeaddict Dundas is viable but im just not sure if it's justifiable
The St. Clair streetcar (& Spadina streetcar & The Queensway right-of-way) would be better if the city (and its Transportation Department) would give REAL transit priority at the traffic signal intersections. Currently, most of them give priority to the single-occupant automobiles turning left ahead of the 100+ on board the streetcars.
Back in the 60's I lived in North Toronto and could take the Nortown 61 trolley bus to Eglinton subway station. But I usually got off at Eglinton and Mt. Pleasant to transfer to the St. Clair streetcar and continue on to St. Clair subway station. Any chance to ride a streetcar!
Could you please put your music in the descriptions?
Most of it is from the SimCity 4 soundtrack 🏙
Is there a transcript for this?
St. Clair cars could not turn back at vaughan loop as it was only able to be enterted by north bound cars on Bathurst St.
Mention the "sunday stops" sometime
jesus imagine if we kept these no wasted money rebuilding these all over again and imagine what it could have provide for I still remember them ripping of trails around keele and st clair west ward after the loop and one on weston road that actually went into the neighbor I used to lived which they slowly switched to electric buses that were connected to the cables and eventually ripped out the tracks and the wires and stop running a bus route that way near my old home
cool history. today i avoid st claire like the plague.
As a life-long Torontonian, a motorist, and one who lives near St. Clair, I have always been ambivalent about streetcars. I am all for separate right-of-ways, but not on major avenues. Spadina was fine, because its extra-wide. St. Clair, I must disagree with. All that work, just to save 8 minutes time along the route, hardly worth it. It has meant driving along St. Clair now takes twice as long, because of all the stoplights every few blocks. Not only stoplights, but extra-long stoplights, due to their multi-phase nature, left- turners first, then strait through traffic, its agonizingly slow & frustrating...