You are talking about the guy with more cars than there are days in a week? Just because you like old materials doesnt mean that you are not a materialist. :P Gotta like Ian though.
I have a 2010 Honda CR-Z hybrid which has the stop/start feature, but it uses its electric motor to start the engine. It's a very interesting little coupe, but has a really generous boot capacity. If you can find one, I thoroughly recommend you should try one. Also, one of the very few hybrids that uses a 6 speed manual gearbox. I bought mine in May 2023 and I must say I'm loving it.
@@ferrumignis yes it's tepid, but if you can get a 2013+ model they had a few extra ponies with a boost function. took me a while to figure out how best to use it but it gave a fun extra few bhp and a decent slug of torque at low revs.
I was behind one of those the other week. In the rear window it bore the legend “I identify as a motorbike” in big letters. On passing I could see it had the image of a bike on the side in vinyl wrap!
So pleased to have found this. I am going to buy this very model in the near future . I live with a man who couldn't find the positive end of a battery and is not supporting my choice. Here's hoping I can prove him wrong!!!
I sold the first Smart cars in the UK. They were LHD cars from the Netherlands and were first registered in 2000 but were usually registered 1998 or 1999. People love them. I sold 20 a month for about 2 years. They were very reliable.
I liked them when they first came out, but here in the greater New York area of the US, they are so small that they border on the scary to drive around with all the hulking vehicles on the roads.I still think they are worthwhile for city driving. Cheers and I like how Miss Hub Nut points things out for you to talk about with her hand.
I had a 2012 mhd for 5 years and 70k miles I loved it! Brilliant little car even on my mostly motorway and dual carriage way 70 mile commute it never felt lacking! Snow, floods it dealt with it all no problem. However I did have 2 issues both belt problems: The first time I’d just left the motorway on the way to work it snapped it took out a hose, snapped the top off the oil pressure switch and ripped a hole in a hose. I stopped (it made a hell of a noise when it went) but some of the belt was still on and turning, so as I was on my way to work I carried on and just as I parked up the last bit of belt gave up so it did get me to work, where I had it recovered from! It went to a smart specialist £500 later they put a new belt on and repaired the other damage so all was good. However just over a month later it snapped again this time it completely came off at once so was no longer driving the water pump! Luckily I was less than half a mile away from home so I limped it back okay! It went back to the the specialist who told me that the first choice is to fit the updated belt and in some cases that solves the issue, but in other cases such as mine it doesn’t and it needs to have the modified alternator bracket fitted which Mercedes would cover the cost of. So that was all done at no more cost to me and happy days was never an issue again. Just make sure you inspect the belt at every service if it shows signs of fraying change it! I have to mention that stop start system, that can be very very dangerous! I came off the motorway to a very very busy roundabout where you need to go quickly as in rush hour there’s very few gaps and you can’t hang about. I obviously slowed on approach to the roundabout and had a good view of traffic coming and saw a gap and accelerated, however as I’d dropped below 5mph the engine was off and it obviously selects neutral when the engine shuts down. I rolled straight out in front of oncoming traffic. The danger comes as the engine has to restart and then wait for the dimwitted gearbox select1st before it would move. All while a truck was heading straight for my drivers door! My foot was buried in the carpet and didn’t come up again until I’d left the roundabout haha! So from then on my routine became start the car then immediately turn off the start stop system! And I do that now for every car I have that has a start stop system.
On any Toyota hybrid you can't disengage stop/start mode but that's NO problem because accelerating from a stop is done by the beefy E-moter. NO issue ever at all.
I hated the stop start on my diesel VW and have had it switched off from new. Now at 225,000 miles it’s still on the original battery and starter motor and averages 50 mpg. When I hear of some people doing urban driving having to have new batteries every 2/3 years, I believe not using mine actually saves me money.
The hell of stop-start systems! I wouldn't mind betting that nobody is without a horror story or two. My diesel Fiesta has it and while it was a novelty at first, everybody I mentioned it to said "turn it off, it'll kill the battery", so my routine became just like yours. Very occasionally, I forget - if I'm on a long trip and a bit tired and have stopped somewhere and started up again (just excuses...) and then I might get bitten. On one occasion, I was pulling onto a roundabout not many miles from home, where two major roads meet and it was rush hour (sounds familiar?), so I jumped for a gap and...not only did it have a bit of a think, but then I went to set off in third gear rather than first because I was a bit flustered and the car immediately stalled...with traffic barrelling onto the roundabout from the preceding entry lane and me sideways across the whole width of two lanes. Then the stop-start decided that it had had enough (battery under a bit of load from having the stereo cranked up and the cabin fan running) and demanded that I manually restart, which meant turning off the ignition entirely and turning it back on again entirely...and if this explanation sounds longwinded that's exactly how it felt in the moments when I was panicking and hoping not to be T-boned. Fortunately the oncoming traffic was nice enough to stop for me, but I still felt like the world's biggest clot. Brave of you to run a Smart for so long, although the second generation car was at least a bit bigger. Many years ago a work colleague related a story of seeing a first-generation ForTwo run into the back of a Volvo in slow-moving traffic, causing the entire front of the Smart to fall off and the lady driver to be very tearful at the sheer destruction wrought by a walking-pace collision. That and him being a passenger in another first-gen car and experiencing the dual sensations of the pogo-ing acceleration and the front of the car being two inches in front of his feet. We had a good laugh over those two stories
I've owned my Smart diesel since 2011 when it was just 5 months old, I nearly bought the micro hybrid model but because of fuel prices back in 2011 when diesel was also cheaper, I opted for the diesel, most of my driving is motorway driving so the diesel is the best option for me and my 60 mile round trip commute, i put Brabus wheels on my car, if I drive it sensibly, gentle acceleration and sticking to a sensible speed, I actually average out 90+mpg, drive it hard and I get 75mpg, yes it's slow and sluggish, 0-60mph sometime today, but after over 150000 miles of driving, as long as I'm not in a hurry, it's an amazing car, a car that will probably see me through until I retire in another 10 years time (if the government don't up the retirement age again)
@@hunchanchoc8418 the diesel has a turbo, it's only a 799cc 3 cylinder engine, it doesn't set the world alight, it does the job I need it to do very efficiently
I have a 2010 451 MHD and it's in pristine condition. The belt's like new but hearing the horror stories I check it every time I open the engine cover which is about once a month. I turn ECO off every time because it's blinking dangerous. As another comment says...pulling into fast moving traffic should never be done with ECO on. The lag is just far too long. I find mine smooth and fast and I fitted spring buffers too and that was a game changer. First intelligent video I've seen on the 451 MHD and spot on! 😎
ECO can be hazzardous. Sometimes if you have been sitting stationary at a junction for a couple of minutes and your chance comes, you take your foot off the brake and onto the accelerator and.... then nothing! There you are in the middle of a junction with a dead car. This happens about 10% of the time after a long stop. The solution is to put into neutral, turn off, remove the key, put the key back, start the car, put into drive and eventually drive away. All this whilst the other drivers are honking you.
I think I prefer your Smart,for its turbo power, and I like the interior of MHD. Also Ian I bought a Corgi Junior model today that I’m going to send to you instead of another Rancho.I’m keeping my eyes open for Diahatsu models to Carly
Honestly they are great cars. Yes the suspension is definitely harsh but the gearbox is much improved upon from the 450. You can buy a tuned ECU for it which improves power a little . We turn the stop start off, it's a pain when you only stop for a second or so
The smart 451 MHD is a very good a car as soon as you cancel the start and stop feature. Bad reputation comes from intensive use of the starter that comes with the start and stop mode: The reason of the belt issue was that the heavy duty starter/alternator pivot was too flimsy on the first years of production. later this pivot was reinforced… this stopped the belt self destruction. Only replace the belt at recommended interval and it will be ok. However this intensive use of the starter may also shorten its life and as it is an hd starter/alternator, its replacement can be very expensive… (£600 or £700 a piece) and will cancel any previous fuel economy benefit. On my 2013 451 MHD ( facelift) after a month of manually cancelling the MHD mode with the center console eco switch, I bought a £20 small start and stop cancelation electronic circuit from Ebay and wired it under this eco switch… This reversible mod make it now a standard 451 71hp with an oversized battery and an oversized but compact starter/alternator (no starter under the car)
I actually really wanted a Smart because I love microcars and found I was too tall for them. Literally my legs were too long to fit and I was very disappointed
@@HubNut so I’m only 6’2” but my legs are really long for someone of my height. I’ve owned a lot of MG Midgets and they are great because their footwells are deep af and once you contort yourself in there is a lot leg room. Reliant’s and Bond’s seem the same way. But there is just no modern iterations of these bubblecar microcar things, save the Smart. Maybe a Fiat 500, but I did not like how high you sit. So I went with a Mini Cooper, which I love but it is just not that small. I wish they had kept the dimensions the same as the original ones
Nope. Not buying it. The 450 early ones are the best. Much more character by far. I had 2, one was a daily driver for 13 years, no maintenance to speak of, just consumables. Never failed once. Most reliable car I have ever had. Period. And plenty of driving fun, punched well above its weight, to the chagrin of some other drivers. You know it makes sense.
My 2015 Astra j 1.6 diesel stop start has not now worked for over twelve months now my nephew who is a mechanic came up from London to pick my sons old 2011 1.2 diesel vw polo my other nephew bought it off my son who told his cousin that he thought the battery was not now very good so my nephew brought his fancy battery tester with him I got him to test my cars battery and the printer out recommended it to be replaced it sill starts ok but I will probably get it replaced before the winter comes I always fancied a smart car but I have got us to comfort and essay motorway cruising now so I will probably not Owen one now
As far as I am aware in 2030 all petrol and diesel new car sales will be banned. That includes hybrids and plug in hybrids. Only Battery electric or hydrogen will be allowed. The stop start system in the Mini’s I had, did save approx 10% fuel around town, but it had moods; ie worked when it felt like it.
I liked the look of the IQ, which was bigger than a Smart (supposedly an occasional 4-seater). I believe Toyota dropped it due to low sales and the introduction of the Aygo. The Aston Martin Cygnet version was £30k!
My 11-year-old daughter wants a Smart fortwo as her first car after Annie told her about yours. After your starter motor saga, I'm not sure my mechanic will want to continue our friendship if she does end up getting one...
We had electric ones in Germany as small rentals. Loved to drive em. And the EV ones are “fast”. At least at the first meters from a stoplight you could beat an AMG and it made the drivers furious. Also the electric motor was not insulated l, so it sounded like a jet engine.
I own a 2007 Turbo Cabrio and Ian you are right with your conclusion, that the later cars after 2010 (EURO 5) and especially 2012 (Facelift) are a lot more refined I case of comfort and smoothness, especially the natural aspirated MHD is very smooth. My Turbo is remapped and has transformed into a pocket rocket - with a wider and lower stands and a sport exhaust ist feels like a go-cart - I love her and will keep her as long as I can.
I’ve a 2009 MHD. Brilliant little thing. Thanks for giving it the review it deserved. True the belts if they go can be expensive but so can many things with other cars, wet belt in an ecoboost for example. Correct maintenance is key, look after them and they are great fun.
I have a 2010 cabrio mhd, I bought it 2 years old from a main dealer, zero deposit and 3 years 0% finance. I previously had a Land Rover and hated working on it each weekend. I am an MB Technician, so I knew these cars were reliable. 13 years later this car hasn't put a foot wrong. I did carry out the modification to the starter/alternator bracket, I did it myself but warranty paid for it. Other than that it's been spot on and I'm considering buying another one. The only complaint I have is the fuel consumption isn't as good as you might expect, but tax, insurance, maintenance costs make up for it. I might just say that thanks to the mitsubishi engine these things are bulletproof. I avoided the turbo model because the fuel consumption is poor.
I own an mhd Smart and it does have its quirks. Yes the belt is tight, mine snapped the pully off the end of its crankshaft (oh dear). The most annoying issue is everytime you stop and start the battery volts dip whilst it starts and it kills the radio. I have an Andriod unit which then has to reboot which takes a while. In stop start traffic the radio is off more than it is on. You can turn the stop/start off but you need to do it every trip as default is "on". On the whole Ian this was a very fair review. Thanks.
In the 451 the cdi was still the MB Suprex engine, 45 bhp or 54bhp. Petrol - 1.0 came as 61 or 71bhp non turbo - USA only got 71bhp without the mhd setup! 84 turbo was the pick of the bunch, BRABUS was 98 or 102bhp, depending on year and euro standard. I quite liked the mhd set up but not the lack of power, or the worries about the belt. 450 gearbox is 3spd plus overdrive to make 6 speeds.
Another very well done video Ian and well videoed by Carly. Apart from a possible single point of failure with the belt it sort of makes more sense being non turbo. Less bits to go wrong. Considering the target market of a town car that can handle longer runs it still makes a fair amount of sense. I've never driven a Smart so my thoughts are quite speculative on when I see and hear. Many thanks for sharing.
I think so too, it's more raw and you get that turbo power delivery which is always fun. This generation would undoubtedly be more comfortable if you are regularly doing longer trips though.
Smart MHD, MHD is acronym for /Mestská hromadná doprava/ in my language, which stands for public city transport, so perhaps hidden message from Smart, Take a bus instead.
I owned one from new for two years and found it surprisingly roomy and comfortable, no issues with reliability. Economy seemed only reasonable though, a 1 litre Yaris gave me slightly better figures but with another pair of seats! Handling could be tricky just as you would expect with rear engine and short wheelbase, I could feel it wanting to swap ends with crosswinds on motorways especially if combined with an off-camber surface and a bend. But not as bad as my first car which had truly epic understeer - a Suzuki SC100. I'm glad you like it, it did manage to hang on to some of the original's character and I did enjoy the Porsche-ish engine note!
Both our cars have foot operated parking brakes. Even if it was legal (and I'm not totally sure on that) to be in neutral or out of gear at a stop in California, I wouldn't because no foot on brake = no tail lights on. Just what I'd need is to get rear ended and hear, "But his stop lights weren't on! He lust have been planning to start moving!" Interesting little cars, not something I could use. Just too small, not enough armor for California driving.
It has a dual purpose alternator - why is that in any way a hybrid drive ? Unless I've missed something, that's just sales fakery isn't it ? From the comments below, that belt is just waiting to strand you in any case....
Ya radio sould be decent in the 450 .. but i think they may of had different specs of speckers don't know what you have got .... and the wind noise must be just be because it is the cabrio.. unfortunately i couldn't afford that model at the time , your posh 😁
You should test a fully electric Smart now. This type of hybrid makes no sense to me. To have a significant effect of emissions, you want an electric motor hauling you away from standstill solo, as 1. that's when ICE cars create the most pollution, & 2. the strong linear toque from an electric motor suits that application perfectly. These things just seem to be to get around rules in a very half-arsed & meaningless way. Whens someone going to market a flywheel sized electric motor to retrofit (with a sandwich plate) to traditional ICE cars? I guess I`m going to make my own hybrid Panda, with an ICE front end for high speed cruising & charging duties, & a solo electric rear diff for pulling away/driving in cities & part time 4x4 duties..
Have u driven the 0.8 CDI diesel one yet? If not u should try out the Euro 4 one (pre 2010), 45 BHP and 0-62 mph in 19.8 secs according to auto trader. The newer version after 2010, (euro 5) has 54 BHP and 0-62 mph in 16.8 secs.
@@Mighty_Cat_Mods There is a local Mini specialist close to me and their compound is full of ones that are not worth fixing. Far too much recyled plastic parts that are designed to last until the warranty expires.
Nice video review Yea, the stop start linked to the foot brake and needing it to remain pressed and in D….same on my Honda….because USA influence I guess. Friend has similar age Ford fiesta 6spd manual and she’s able to select N, apply parking brake, release foot brake and the engine remains off…because European influence I guess. Had my Honda from new and several little differences like that on it. Took me a while to find them all. The turbo would feel more lumpy pulling away….i drove the 2018 Honda Civic (Swindon European model), 6 speed manual, 1.0 petrol turbo and that felt like it was pulling away twice each time. I prefer a N/A engine….also less to go wrong. The 0-62mph of 13s isn’t great but….for a little 1.0 petrol w/out a turbo, that’s sorta normal….i am just remembering cars like my 1.2 corsa….even that civic took 12s. The updated Smart is much closer to what I would except…much nicer inside, better built, slightly bigger. Things I don’t like…. The bumpy ride…..that would be just as bad or worse than my car over our many potholes. The weak design point of that alternator. And still wouldn’t buy it with that automated transmission even tho it’s an improvement…would take the CVT automatic Toyota IQ instead. What sort of economy would the diesel model get…..full hub nut mode. PS, hybrids are not escaping the new car ban….just not sure whether they get the axe in 2030 or 2035.
Don’t blame Chrysler for Smart or Daimler quality issues. A “merger of equals” quickly dissolved into a huge mess, many questioned the decisions coming out of Germany. Nobody won on that deal, and Chrysler, a company founded in 1925 has never fully recovered.
"Twas a good review going along nicely until the abject wind noise at speed occurred. Avoid. Yes, better quality interior out of slightly less dingy plastics than Gen 1. And so on. But the wind noise. Argh! Well, carry on the drive and pretend it didn't happen. What can you do? I always found the Smart inconsequential technically with its rear engine after years of Front being better in crashes and handling. Buyers bought the concept and dreams not the actual so-so quality of product plunked down in front of hem.
IDK, I'm not sure I could be bothered with adding a reliability concern (however large or small) whilst barely-if-ever improving the fuel economy in return, when there are other engine choices available.
Most will have been sorted by now. Basically the alternator belt had to be very tight so that it didn't slip when starting. This caused wear on the mountings and eventually the belt either got chewed up or lost tension. They brought out a modified mounting kit with larger pivots which helped. As you say it doesn't make much difference in normal driving so a lot of owners just turn the eco off saving wear/tear on the belt. I had the earlier 450 with a glass roof and I hated the thing. In the summer it was too hot and in the winter it dripped condensation so I ended up making an insulated cover that worked all year round. I often thought that they missed a trick with the convertible. Why didn't they just fit a sliding sunroof like a webasto roof and forget the complication of removable bars and completely folding rear roof. I bet you just use the first roof position on most days anyway? With the 20 mph limits I find in a normal manual car it is very difficult to sometimes keep the speed down or select the correct gear and that is where the smart excels as it chooses for you. If you don't have many problems with your cabrio I think you will have some great times in it and will be your "go to" car for general use. Yes they are small but they are no worse from a driving position than most small hatchbacks you just don't have the option for a family or lots of luggage but in day to day use it's more than capable. You don't see motorcyclists moaning about luggage capacity.
This car sounds complicated. But I like the color. Have a coworker who drives a Smart back and forth to school and work to save on gas. He usually drives a truck. 😊
Was "micro hybrid" just parlance for "we've put stop-start in it"? There is PSA literature stating that the e-HDi was exactly that with its reversible alternator, but they thankfully dropped the term for BlueHDi.
Neat little car. Your idea of foot off the brake, car out of gear is exactly the opposite of what I was taught with both automatic and manual gearboxes. I was taught that for safety you must be ready to go immediately. That second lost starting the car, getting it into gear, and releasing the handbrake can be the difference between life and death in an emergency. I've seen that in action. Because I was ready, I was able to hop a kerb and get clear while the modern car beside me got clobbered. Because they were waiting for the engine to start, they had their foot on the throttle. The engine kicked in a split second before impact, and that put them in the middle of a 6 lane road, where they got T-Boned.
*Only* 71 BHP in a teeny-weeny two sister (a bubble-car's big sister)? The Sprite was introduced with 43 BHP, and finally got itself to 65. And when faced with the choice between a turbo Mercedes engine and a Mitsubishi for a town car--what a hard choice. Even if it would be prudent to replace the omnibelt at half the specified intervals. Sounds rather appealing, though more for congested cities than winding country roads.
You also have the smart generators. In some ways the very extremely mild hybrids. They predominantly like to charge when the car is rolling out. You can really feel the braking effect it has in my Mitsubishi Space Star. But sometimes the battery is full and then the car rolls out freely.
Brings back fond memories of my old W-reg LHD Smart. One of the imports before they were officially on sale in the UK. I loved that car despite the horrible gearbox!
I did enjoy this video because you had a chance to compare this second generation to your first generation smart now l have done the same with my 5th generation Toyota Hilux now l had a chance to drive a 6th generation Hilux it was a ute which when l had accident repairs on the ute l had a Mazda Bravo my Mazda Bravo really enjoyed driving that it so good and it was a manual gearbox but this 6th generation was an automatic and l was glad to give it back it was awful but it just not as good and it had a different motor to my Hilux and the 6th generation had efi but my Hilux has a carburator which us a much better to drive l do think it is better than the 6th generation and it had a larger capacity engine 2.7 litres as my Hilux is 2.4 litres amd my Bravo was 2.6 litres
A 451 Smart should remember what mode the gearbox was in when you last used it, unlike the earlier cars. If I hold the 'up' flappy paddle on my 14 plate turbo Smart, it will go back into AUTO ... same as pressing the button on the selector.
I can't help but feel like six speeds for the gearbox would normally be an advantage, but the ratios are more suited in this case ( though still not perfect, given Ians 4th at 30 complaint). Wonder if this has emissions standards to blame for this, like most modernish cars?
Thanks for the great review Ian and Carly. We have a 2013 Cabrio version of the same car and love it. If you ever find yourselves in the depths of Cornwall please feel free to come and try it to complete your Smart Car review collection.
Absolutely brilliant video Ian miss hubnut ❤👍what a lovely car I think all things said and done preventative maintenance is always a good thing brilliant
Of only the entire world was just Hubnut, we would all be super chilled and less materialistic 👍
You are talking about the guy with more cars than there are days in a week? Just because you like old materials doesnt mean that you are not a materialist. :P Gotta like Ian though.
People want things that's not always materialistic ! that can also be passions hobbies nostalgia and history all things worth having
@@matthewrowe9903 One is an alibi for the other. I didn't asy it was bad either way.
In the heart of materialism I now one 1 car, and small motorcycle and a couple bicycles. I like not owning a fleet of cars.
I have a 2010 Honda CR-Z hybrid which has the stop/start feature, but it uses its electric motor to start the engine. It's a very interesting little coupe, but has a really generous boot capacity. If you can find one, I thoroughly recommend you should try one. Also, one of the very few hybrids that uses a 6 speed manual gearbox. I bought mine in May 2023 and I must say I'm loving it.
I considered a CR-Z a number of years back, but the lackluster performance killed it for me.
@@ferrumignis yes it's tepid, but if you can get a 2013+ model they had a few extra ponies with a boost function. took me a while to figure out how best to use it but it gave a fun extra few bhp and a decent slug of torque at low revs.
I was behind one of those the other week. In the rear window it bore the legend “I identify as a motorbike” in big letters. On passing I could see it had the image of a bike on the side in vinyl wrap!
So pleased to have found this. I am going to buy this very model in the near future .
I live with a man who couldn't find the positive end of a battery and is not supporting my choice.
Here's hoping I can prove him wrong!!!
Best advice seems to be to not use the stop start as a general rule.
I sold the first Smart cars in the UK. They were LHD cars from the Netherlands and were first registered in 2000 but were usually registered 1998 or 1999.
People love them. I sold 20 a month for about 2 years. They were very reliable.
I liked them when they first came out, but here in the greater New York area of the US, they are so small that they border on the scary to drive around with all the hulking vehicles on the roads.I still think they are worthwhile for city driving. Cheers and I like how Miss Hub Nut points things out for you to talk about with her hand.
I had a 2012 mhd for 5 years and 70k miles I loved it! Brilliant little car even on my mostly motorway and dual carriage way 70 mile commute it never felt lacking! Snow, floods it dealt with it all no problem.
However I did have 2 issues both belt problems:
The first time I’d just left the motorway on the way to work it snapped it took out a hose, snapped the top off the oil pressure switch and ripped a hole in a hose. I stopped (it made a hell of a noise when it went) but some of the belt was still on and turning, so as I was on my way to work I carried on and just as I parked up the last bit of belt gave up so it did get me to work, where I had it recovered from!
It went to a smart specialist £500 later they put a new belt on and repaired the other damage so all was good.
However just over a month later it snapped again this time it completely came off at once so was no longer driving the water pump! Luckily I was less than half a mile away from home so I limped it back okay!
It went back to the the specialist who told me that the first choice is to fit the updated belt and in some cases that solves the issue, but in other cases such as mine it doesn’t and it needs to have the modified alternator bracket fitted which Mercedes would cover the cost of. So that was all done at no more cost to me and happy days was never an issue again. Just make sure you inspect the belt at every service if it shows signs of fraying change it!
I have to mention that stop start system, that can be very very dangerous!
I came off the motorway to a very very busy roundabout where you need to go quickly as in rush hour there’s very few gaps and you can’t hang about. I obviously slowed on approach to the roundabout and had a good view of traffic coming and saw a gap and accelerated, however as I’d dropped below 5mph the engine was off and it obviously selects neutral when the engine shuts down. I rolled straight out in front of oncoming traffic. The danger comes as the engine has to restart and then wait for the dimwitted gearbox select1st before it would move. All while a truck was heading straight for my drivers door! My foot was buried in the carpet and didn’t come up again until I’d left the roundabout haha!
So from then on my routine became start the car then immediately turn off the start stop system!
And I do that now for every car I have that has a start stop system.
On any Toyota hybrid you can't disengage stop/start mode but that's NO problem because accelerating from a stop is done by the beefy E-moter. NO issue ever at all.
I hated the stop start on my diesel VW and have had it switched off from new. Now at 225,000 miles it’s still on the original battery and starter motor and averages 50 mpg. When I hear of some people doing urban driving having to have new batteries every 2/3 years, I believe not using mine actually saves me money.
The hell of stop-start systems! I wouldn't mind betting that nobody is without a horror story or two. My diesel Fiesta has it and while it was a novelty at first, everybody I mentioned it to said "turn it off, it'll kill the battery", so my routine became just like yours. Very occasionally, I forget - if I'm on a long trip and a bit tired and have stopped somewhere and started up again (just excuses...) and then I might get bitten. On one occasion, I was pulling onto a roundabout not many miles from home, where two major roads meet and it was rush hour (sounds familiar?), so I jumped for a gap and...not only did it have a bit of a think, but then I went to set off in third gear rather than first because I was a bit flustered and the car immediately stalled...with traffic barrelling onto the roundabout from the preceding entry lane and me sideways across the whole width of two lanes. Then the stop-start decided that it had had enough (battery under a bit of load from having the stereo cranked up and the cabin fan running) and demanded that I manually restart, which meant turning off the ignition entirely and turning it back on again entirely...and if this explanation sounds longwinded that's exactly how it felt in the moments when I was panicking and hoping not to be T-boned. Fortunately the oncoming traffic was nice enough to stop for me, but I still felt like the world's biggest clot.
Brave of you to run a Smart for so long, although the second generation car was at least a bit bigger. Many years ago a work colleague related a story of seeing a first-generation ForTwo run into the back of a Volvo in slow-moving traffic, causing the entire front of the Smart to fall off and the lady driver to be very tearful at the sheer destruction wrought by a walking-pace collision. That and him being a passenger in another first-gen car and experiencing the dual sensations of the pogo-ing acceleration and the front of the car being two inches in front of his feet. We had a good laugh over those two stories
I've owned my Smart diesel since 2011 when it was just 5 months old, I nearly bought the micro hybrid model but because of fuel prices back in 2011 when diesel was also cheaper, I opted for the diesel, most of my driving is motorway driving so the diesel is the best option for me and my 60 mile round trip commute, i put Brabus wheels on my car, if I drive it sensibly, gentle acceleration and sticking to a sensible speed, I actually average out 90+mpg, drive it hard and I get 75mpg, yes it's slow and sluggish, 0-60mph sometime today, but after over 150000 miles of driving, as long as I'm not in a hurry, it's an amazing car, a car that will probably see me through until I retire in another 10 years time (if the government don't up the retirement age again)
I presume the diesel doesn't have a turbo ?
@@hunchanchoc8418common rail turbo diesel
@@hunchanchoc8418 the diesel has a turbo, it's only a 799cc 3 cylinder engine, it doesn't set the world alight, it does the job I need it to do very efficiently
@@andrewgage6942 Thanks! :-)
I have a 2010 451 MHD and it's in pristine condition. The belt's like new but hearing the horror stories I check it every time I open the engine cover which is about once a month.
I turn ECO off every time because it's blinking dangerous. As another comment says...pulling into fast moving traffic should never be done with ECO on. The lag is just far too long.
I find mine smooth and fast and I fitted spring buffers too and that was a game changer.
First intelligent video I've seen on the 451 MHD and spot on! 😎
ECO can be hazzardous. Sometimes if you have been sitting stationary at a junction for a couple of minutes and your chance comes, you take your foot off the brake and onto the accelerator and.... then nothing! There you are in the middle of a junction with a dead car. This happens about 10% of the time after a long stop. The solution is to put into neutral, turn off, remove the key, put the key back, start the car, put into drive and eventually drive away. All this whilst the other drivers are honking you.
@@mickfoster7140 or just switch ECO off at startup
Could you please publish a link for the purchase of the spring buffers?
Hubnut films by my house and I miss it!
iv had an MHD and had no problems with it, some ppl panic about the v belt, aslong as you replace it wen it needs doing, everything should be ok
I think I prefer your Smart,for its turbo power, and I like the interior of MHD. Also Ian I bought a Corgi Junior model today that I’m going to send to you instead of another Rancho.I’m keeping my eyes open for Diahatsu models to Carly
Thank you in advance!
@@HubNut your welcome
The wide angle lens always makes back road look terrifying!
Honestly they are great cars. Yes the suspension is definitely harsh but the gearbox is much improved upon from the 450. You can buy a tuned ECU for it which improves power a little . We turn the stop start off, it's a pain when you only stop for a second or so
Even of the ECO mode does not save much fuel at least it is not producing pollution when stationary so that has to be a good thing.
The smart 451 MHD is a very good a car as soon as you cancel the start and stop feature.
Bad reputation comes from intensive use of the starter that comes with the start and stop mode:
The reason of the belt issue was that the heavy duty starter/alternator pivot was too flimsy on the first years of production. later this pivot was reinforced… this stopped the belt self destruction. Only replace the belt at recommended interval and it will be ok.
However this intensive use of the starter may also shorten its life and as it is an hd starter/alternator, its replacement can be very expensive… (£600 or £700 a piece) and will cancel any previous fuel economy benefit.
On my 2013 451 MHD ( facelift) after a month of manually cancelling the MHD mode with the center console eco switch, I bought a £20 small start and stop cancelation electronic circuit from Ebay and wired it under this eco switch…
This reversible mod make it now a standard 451 71hp with an oversized battery and an oversized but compact starter/alternator (no starter under the car)
I once drove an electric 2nd gen Smart. Despite the batteries it somehow managed to feel top heavy.
There is a 2nd gen Smart where i live. My Wife says she wouldn't mind having a drive in one bit smaller than her 57 reg Fiesta.
I (genuinely!) used to work with a fella called Ian Carly 😂
You have to drive a fully electric one !!!!! If you're stuck and down in Devon I can get my hands on one.
th-cam.com/video/6QUUc97JwB4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2nQv0gh8DKwxz5hy
I actually really wanted a Smart because I love microcars and found I was too tall for them. Literally my legs were too long to fit and I was very disappointed
Blimey. How long are your legs? I'm 5ft9 and can't have the seat anywhere near fully back.
@@HubNut so I’m only 6’2” but my legs are really long for someone of my height. I’ve owned a lot of MG Midgets and they are great because their footwells are deep af and once you contort yourself in there is a lot leg room. Reliant’s and Bond’s seem the same way. But there is just no modern iterations of these bubblecar microcar things, save the Smart. Maybe a Fiat 500, but I did not like how high you sit. So I went with a Mini Cooper, which I love but it is just not that small. I wish they had kept the dimensions the same as the original ones
4:20 Ian wants the more modern Smart... You know you want to!
Nope. Not buying it. The 450 early ones are the best. Much more character by far. I had 2, one was a daily driver for 13 years, no maintenance to speak of, just consumables. Never failed once. Most reliable car I have ever had. Period. And plenty of driving fun, punched well above its weight, to the chagrin of some other drivers. You know it makes sense.
Mk2 a big improvement great review but just as bad trying to repair it
My 2015 Astra j 1.6 diesel stop start has not now worked for over twelve months now my nephew who is a mechanic came up from London to pick my sons old 2011 1.2 diesel vw polo my other nephew bought it off my son who told his cousin that he thought the battery was not now very good so my nephew brought his fancy battery tester with him I got him to test my cars battery and the printer out recommended it to be replaced it sill starts ok but I will probably get it replaced before the winter comes I always fancied a smart car but I have got us to comfort and essay motorway cruising now so I will probably not Owen one now
As far as I am aware in 2030 all petrol and diesel new car sales will be banned. That includes hybrids and plug in hybrids.
Only Battery electric or hydrogen will be allowed.
The stop start system in the Mini’s I had, did save approx 10% fuel around town, but it had moods; ie worked when it felt like it.
I like the toyota iq which is more reliable 🤓
I liked the look of the IQ, which was bigger than a Smart (supposedly an occasional 4-seater). I believe Toyota dropped it due to low sales and the introduction of the Aygo. The Aston Martin Cygnet version was £30k!
Toyota IQ is just an inferior copy of the smart.
So did the sunroof disintegrate into thousands of little cubes or half a dozen daggers?
Cubes I think. Though, in my experience, such cubes can still be sharp...
Such a shame Smart have not continued with the ForTwo
Rumours they are preparing a new one.
AY UP MR HUBNUT
The car that never needed to be a hybrid. A tiny diesel engine makes far more sense in something like this.
Next up - Smart ForFour?
We've done the second generation. Would like to try the first.
I'm not a fan of it. Fortunately, there are people who support the Smart.
Huh?..a polycarbonate roof, parking senses & flappy paddles on a micro car?..is someone having a lend?😆
It's always looked like a death trap to me.
I will stick with my scruffy car!
Winecooler lmao
My 11-year-old daughter wants a Smart fortwo as her first car after Annie told her about yours. After your starter motor saga, I'm not sure my mechanic will want to continue our friendship if she does end up getting one...
Take the electric one. They are cheap now
We had electric ones in Germany as small rentals.
Loved to drive em. And the EV ones are “fast”. At least at the first meters from a stoplight you could beat an AMG and it made the drivers furious.
Also the electric motor was not insulated l, so it sounded like a jet engine.
I own a 2007 Turbo Cabrio and Ian you are right with your conclusion, that the later cars after 2010 (EURO 5) and especially 2012 (Facelift) are a lot more refined I case of comfort and smoothness, especially the natural aspirated MHD is very smooth. My Turbo is remapped and has transformed into a pocket rocket - with a wider and lower stands and a sport exhaust ist feels like a go-cart - I love her and will keep her as long as I can.
Glorious mullet action in the wind
I’ve a 2009 MHD. Brilliant little thing. Thanks for giving it the review it deserved. True the belts if they go can be expensive but so can many things with other cars, wet belt in an ecoboost for example. Correct maintenance is key, look after them and they are great fun.
I have a 2010 cabrio mhd, I bought it 2 years old from a main dealer, zero deposit and 3 years 0% finance. I previously had a Land Rover and hated working on it each weekend. I am an MB Technician, so I knew these cars were reliable. 13 years later this car hasn't put a foot wrong. I did carry out the modification to the starter/alternator bracket, I did it myself but warranty paid for it. Other than that it's been spot on and I'm considering buying another one. The only complaint I have is the fuel consumption isn't as good as you might expect, but tax, insurance, maintenance costs make up for it. I might just say that thanks to the mitsubishi engine these things are bulletproof. I avoided the turbo model because the fuel consumption is poor.
I have had a 2004 Smart and a 2012 Smart and both were fantastic.
I own an mhd Smart and it does have its quirks. Yes the belt is tight, mine snapped the pully off the end of its crankshaft (oh dear).
The most annoying issue is everytime you stop and start the battery volts dip whilst it starts and it kills the radio. I have an Andriod unit which then has to reboot which takes a while. In stop start traffic the radio is off more than it is on. You can turn the stop/start off but you need to do it every trip as default is "on".
On the whole Ian this was a very fair review. Thanks.
In the 451 the cdi was still the MB Suprex engine, 45 bhp or 54bhp. Petrol - 1.0 came as 61 or 71bhp non turbo - USA only got 71bhp without the mhd setup! 84 turbo was the pick of the bunch, BRABUS was 98 or 102bhp, depending on year and euro standard. I quite liked the mhd set up but not the lack of power, or the worries about the belt.
450 gearbox is 3spd plus overdrive to make 6 speeds.
Another very well done video Ian and well videoed by Carly. Apart from a possible single point of failure with the belt it sort of makes more sense being non turbo. Less bits to go wrong. Considering the target market of a town car that can handle longer runs it still makes a fair amount of sense. I've never driven a Smart so my thoughts are quite speculative on when I see and hear. Many thanks for sharing.
A start stop system is Dangerous. Had it cut out moving into traffic other times low battery cut the windscreen blower fan so steamed up windows.
The first generation is more small and more fun to drive
I think so too, it's more raw and you get that turbo power delivery which is always fun. This generation would undoubtedly be more comfortable if you are regularly doing longer trips though.
Smart MHD, MHD is acronym for /Mestská hromadná doprava/ in my language, which stands for public city transport, so perhaps hidden message from Smart, Take a bus instead.
An ex girlfriend of mine had an MHD.....I was itchy for weeks afterwards.
I owned one from new for two years and found it surprisingly roomy and comfortable, no issues with reliability. Economy seemed only reasonable though, a 1 litre Yaris gave me slightly better figures but with another pair of seats! Handling could be tricky just as you would expect with rear engine and short wheelbase, I could feel it wanting to swap ends with crosswinds on motorways especially if combined with an off-camber surface and a bend. But not as bad as my first car which had truly epic understeer - a Suzuki SC100. I'm glad you like it, it did manage to hang on to some of the original's character and I did enjoy the Porsche-ish engine note!
Both our cars have foot operated parking brakes. Even if it was legal (and I'm not totally sure on that) to be in neutral or out of gear at a stop in California, I wouldn't because no foot on brake = no tail lights on. Just what I'd need is to get rear ended and hear, "But his stop lights weren't on! He lust have been planning to start moving!" Interesting little cars, not something I could use. Just too small, not enough armor for California driving.
I have to agree with you that we will see allot more of these "hybrids" in the future
Family of four went shopping? In a two seater thats not efficient.
The non-turbo non-MHD is the better choice, but much rarer.
It has a dual purpose alternator - why is that in any way a hybrid drive ? Unless I've missed something, that's just sales fakery isn't it ? From the comments below, that belt is just waiting to strand you in any case....
It is fakery. For me, a hybrid should provide at least some electric propulsion.
Today's power-word "capacious".....
My uncle had a smart for 4 1.0 liter
Can you please test drive a Smart Forfour ?
Bloomin heck. Great review
😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
I've always wanted to drive a smart
another great video has always Ian and Carly miss/mrs hubnut and hublets and hubmutt 👍
Ya radio sould be decent in the 450 .. but i think they may of had different specs of speckers don't know what you have got .... and the wind noise must be just be because it is the cabrio.. unfortunately i couldn't afford that model at the time , your posh 😁
I think they cheapened the equipment later on. No subwoofer.
All Mitsubishi engines are 1 Liter in capacity - the Renault have a 1 Liter NA and a 0,9 Turbo.
Ah, thank you.
MHD is the German for Best before Date.
MHD=Mindesthaltbarkeitsdatum (Best before date) What a long word...
You should test a fully electric Smart now. This type of hybrid makes no sense to me. To have a significant effect of emissions, you want an electric motor hauling you away from standstill solo, as 1. that's when ICE cars create the most pollution, & 2. the strong linear toque from an electric motor suits that application perfectly. These things just seem to be to get around rules in a very half-arsed & meaningless way. Whens someone going to market a flywheel sized electric motor to retrofit (with a sandwich plate) to traditional ICE cars? I guess I`m going to make my own hybrid Panda, with an ICE front end for high speed cruising & charging duties, & a solo electric rear diff for pulling away/driving in cities & part time 4x4 duties..
Have u driven the 0.8 CDI diesel one yet? If not u should try out the Euro 4 one (pre 2010), 45 BHP and 0-62 mph in 19.8 secs according to auto trader. The newer version after 2010, (euro 5) has 54 BHP and 0-62 mph in 16.8 secs.
I used to have one. A bit of chip tuning made it a bit quicker and didn't really hurt the fuel economy.
Just do not buy one...avoid...drive around it 😂
I though all Smarts were best avoided.
Like BMW Mini's their reputation precedes them.
Not all BMW Minis are terrible.
Just an awful lot of them 😸
yes all smarts are best avoided low quality crap
@@Mighty_Cat_Mods There is a local Mini specialist close to me and their compound is
full of ones that are not worth fixing.
Far too much recyled plastic parts that are designed to last until the warranty expires.
What happens if you use the hand brake and pop it into natural?
Good question.
some nice mercedes bits in the interior.
I think you’d really like driving the EQ. It’s the powerplant the Smart was made for.
Nice video review
Yea, the stop start linked to the foot brake and needing it to remain pressed and in D….same on my Honda….because USA influence I guess. Friend has similar age Ford fiesta 6spd manual and she’s able to select N, apply parking brake, release foot brake and the engine remains off…because European influence I guess. Had my Honda from new and several little differences like that on it. Took me a while to find them all.
The turbo would feel more lumpy pulling away….i drove the 2018 Honda Civic (Swindon European model), 6 speed manual, 1.0 petrol turbo and that felt like it was pulling away twice each time. I prefer a N/A engine….also less to go wrong.
The 0-62mph of 13s isn’t great but….for a little 1.0 petrol w/out a turbo, that’s sorta normal….i am just remembering cars like my 1.2 corsa….even that civic took 12s.
The updated Smart is much closer to what I would except…much nicer inside, better built, slightly bigger.
Things I don’t like….
The bumpy ride…..that would be just as bad or worse than my car over our many potholes.
The weak design point of that alternator.
And still wouldn’t buy it with that automated transmission even tho it’s an improvement…would take the CVT automatic Toyota IQ instead.
What sort of economy would the diesel model get…..full hub nut mode.
PS, hybrids are not escaping the new car ban….just not sure whether they get the axe in 2030 or 2035.
Don’t blame Chrysler for Smart or Daimler quality issues. A “merger of equals” quickly dissolved into a huge mess, many questioned the decisions coming out of Germany. Nobody won on that deal, and Chrysler, a company founded in 1925 has never fully recovered.
"Twas a good review going along nicely until the abject wind noise at speed occurred.
Avoid.
Yes, better quality interior out of slightly less dingy plastics than Gen 1. And so on.
But the wind noise. Argh! Well, carry on the drive and pretend it didn't happen. What can you do?
I always found the Smart inconsequential technically with its rear engine after years of Front being better in crashes and handling. Buyers bought the concept and dreams not the actual so-so quality of product plunked down in front of hem.
LOVE MY SMART CARS ❤
Did it have a mitsu engine because it is now more of a Renault?
No. The third generation was a joint development with Renault.
@@HubNut Aaah ok. The mitsu engine was just a soft start then.
IDK, I'm not sure I could be bothered with adding a reliability concern (however large or small) whilst barely-if-ever improving the fuel economy in return, when there are other engine choices available.
Most will have been sorted by now. Basically the alternator belt had to be very tight so that it didn't slip when starting. This caused wear on the mountings and eventually the belt either got chewed up or lost tension. They brought out a modified mounting kit with larger pivots which helped.
As you say it doesn't make much difference in normal driving so a lot of owners just turn the eco off saving wear/tear on the belt.
I had the earlier 450 with a glass roof and I hated the thing. In the summer it was too hot and in the winter it dripped condensation so I ended up making an insulated cover that worked all year round.
I often thought that they missed a trick with the convertible. Why didn't they just fit a sliding sunroof like a webasto roof and forget the complication of removable bars and completely folding rear roof.
I bet you just use the first roof position on most days anyway?
With the 20 mph limits I find in a normal manual car it is very difficult to sometimes keep the speed down or select the correct gear and that is where the smart excels as it chooses for you.
If you don't have many problems with your cabrio I think you will have some great times in it and will be your "go to" car for general use. Yes they are small but they are no worse from a driving position than most small hatchbacks you just don't have the option for a family or lots of luggage but in day to day use it's more than capable.
You don't see motorcyclists moaning about luggage capacity.
This car sounds complicated. But I like the color. Have a coworker who drives a Smart back and forth to school and work to save on gas. He usually drives a truck. 😊
An excellent review as always Ian and Carly, always did wonder what MHD stood for.
Was "micro hybrid" just parlance for "we've put stop-start in it"? There is PSA literature stating that the e-HDi was exactly that with its reversible alternator, but they thankfully dropped the term for BlueHDi.
Neat little car. Your idea of foot off the brake, car out of gear is exactly the opposite of what I was taught with both automatic and manual gearboxes. I was taught that for safety you must be ready to go immediately. That second lost starting the car, getting it into gear, and releasing the handbrake can be the difference between life and death in an emergency. I've seen that in action. Because I was ready, I was able to hop a kerb and get clear while the modern car beside me got clobbered. Because they were waiting for the engine to start, they had their foot on the throttle. The engine kicked in a split second before impact, and that put them in the middle of a 6 lane road, where they got T-Boned.
*Only* 71 BHP in a teeny-weeny two sister (a bubble-car's big sister)? The Sprite was introduced with 43 BHP, and finally got itself to 65. And when faced with the choice between a turbo Mercedes engine and a Mitsubishi for a town car--what a hard choice. Even if it would be prudent to replace the omnibelt at half the specified intervals. Sounds rather appealing, though more for congested cities than winding country roads.
You also have the smart generators. In some ways the very extremely mild hybrids. They predominantly like to charge when the car is rolling out. You can really feel the braking effect it has in my Mitsubishi Space Star. But sometimes the battery is full and then the car rolls out freely.
Great review, pity they never made a proper manual.
PS: I still think the Fiat/Abarth 500 holds the tiny parcel shelf load cover record
Brings back fond memories of my old W-reg LHD Smart. One of the imports before they were officially on sale in the UK. I loved that car despite the horrible gearbox!
I did enjoy this video because you had a chance to compare this second generation to your first generation smart now l have done the same with my 5th generation Toyota Hilux now l had a chance to drive a 6th generation Hilux it was a ute which when l had accident repairs on the ute l had a Mazda Bravo my Mazda Bravo really enjoyed driving that it so good and it was a manual gearbox but this 6th generation was an automatic and l was glad to give it back it was awful but it just not as good and it had a different motor to my Hilux and the 6th generation had efi but my Hilux has a carburator which us a much better to drive l do think it is better than the 6th generation and it had a larger capacity engine 2.7 litres as my Hilux is 2.4 litres amd my Bravo was 2.6 litres
A 451 Smart should remember what mode the gearbox was in when you last used it, unlike the earlier cars. If I hold the 'up' flappy paddle on my 14 plate turbo Smart, it will go back into AUTO ... same as pressing the button on the selector.
So, is seat belts an option???
No?
Always liked the smart car but never owned one due to working in health and social care needing a bigger boot
One day you never know
The drive quality is great, the only issue is if it DOES go, it can really be expensive.
What’s in the two pods, Ian ? Tacho in one I guess ?? and… ?! (Watching on phone - can’t see too well)
Clock. Wish mine has those!
I assume the clock was Swatch's only contribution 😅
@@caw25sha Of course !!! 😄
Clear view, no smart-ing of the eyes, just a great run out. Thanks for the spin, just what I needed.
Here in Germany that MHD was interpreted as Mindesthaltbarkeitsdatum- expiry date.
I can't help but feel like six speeds for the gearbox would normally be an advantage, but the ratios are more suited in this case ( though still not perfect, given Ians 4th at 30 complaint). Wonder if this has emissions standards to blame for this, like most modernish cars?
Thanks for the great review Ian and Carly. We have a 2013 Cabrio version of the same car and love it. If you ever find yourselves in the depths of Cornwall please feel free to come and try it to complete your Smart Car review collection.
Absolutely brilliant video Ian miss hubnut ❤👍what a lovely car I think all things said and done preventative maintenance is always a good thing brilliant
The twirly screen thing made me think you'd stacked it for a second!😅