I am always astounded by the detail and accuracy of cave art. It really reminds me that these ancient humans were all every bit as intelligent and smart as we are today.
Totally, and that they spent a LOT of time looking at their subjects. I see a lot of love and reverence in the way they represented their surroundings.
@@Lishadra reverence... key word. the Man-Lion is revered worldwide, w many churches deficated to NaraSimha esp in southeast asia. the harekrishnas like me today are extremelt devoted. the image shown from the european is a Lakshmi Nr.Singhom. rarely mentioned: an altar was also found Right There for Him... : ) namasté narasimhaya ...
@@jorgegonzalez-larramendi5491 i had never heard about this before but thank you for reaponding with this. I think reverance is an incredible term to use. I hope you are well!
Don't you just love it that pre-historic records painted on a cave wall by our ancient ancestors are used in conjunction with modern paleontology to reach a scientific conclusion? Just amazing!
Yes, I do. When I hear actors and politicians say, "I speak truth to power.", I giggle. No one cares. Speak truth by painting on a wall that depicts the reality of a moment as your community interprets it. Then leave it for the future...unedited or spoiled.
I know and I love it. I’m more interested in the paleontology side than the anthropology side of things but it’s so important for these fields to work together
I love the thinking that maybe scholars are discussing what religious significance this had, when in reality it was just carved by a prehistoric stoner.
probably just a toy. 5yr old boy: let's go Mr Lion, stomp on Swiper the Fox. Swiper no swiping! Rawwr! Also him: Dad why doesn't Mr Lion have the mane? Dad: Buddy I was too lazy to curve that sht out
The fact that male cave lions lacked manes brings up some distinct questions about how different the social dynamics were between them and modern lions. Typically, modern male lions don't participate much in hunting once they become a pride leader, and their manes are used to intimidate other male lions from attacking their cubs. Since male cave lions clearly couldn't do that it begs the question of whether or not the social groups of cave lions were as strictly defined as modern lions. Tigers, for example, can sometimes form temporary groups and even hunt cooperatively if the immediate prey conditions are right, so perhaps cave lions operated in a similar manner where social hunting was more common than in tigers but prides were not genetically similar family groups and could disband and reform multiple times in context to local prey diversity and abundance.
Just saying but modern subspecies of lions like the Barbary lion were studied as not living in prides but rather pairs of only one lioness and one lion as mates. They did not live in prides unlike African lions. Also Indian lions only the females form hunting groups, the male usually is solitary throughout its life.
@@neonspawn7 The Asiatic male lion has a less developed mane, so perhaps there is some correlation with the current African family unit. Apparently the Barbary lion had an impressive mane though. In either case it seems to relate to male vs male fighting success.
Kind of. Remember they’re in a cave. It’s not like you ask a lion to pose for you. So yes they’re very detailed but not hyper realistic. Still very beautiful though
@@bennu547 Dude seriously? Noone said the cave paintings were hyper or photo realistic. They're still very detailed, ESPECIALLY for the reasons you stated. They used primitive inks, without a reference to look at (maybe, it's also possible these genius cave artists dragged a dead specimen as reference) and made works of art that stood the test of time. These are very detailed by all measures.
These episodes are so cool! There was the Sahara Cave art episode, the Australian Megafauna episode, and now this one. I'm hoping there are more episodes to come about ancient artists and the cool animals that they drew.
So Amazing! I could stare at those depictions for quite a while. The technique and shading. The musculature accuracy of the cheek. The concentration of the brow. To think that very early humans were capable of producing this level of quality and anatomical accuracy, this just fascinates me.
@@KimberlyGreen Women have always felt some kind of "spiritual" type connection to cat's. So it makes me wonder. Wolves seem to have an equal following of both sexes. Just my mind babbling, lol.
Can't wait for a video centred specifically on the Eurasian cave hyena. That bugger was literally _everywhere_ on the continent, and has one of the richest fossil records of any Pleistocene mammal, yet it is so often overlooked.
The eurasian cave hyena was the reason why humans couldn't migrate to North America from Beringia over the Bering strait. They could do so only after the hyeanas died out
The cave lion cubs where so exciting to me, I was overjoyed to see the find when it was announced, I feel sad for the babies and wonder what they went through but it's absolutely astounding that we have so many well preserved cubs.
It’s interesting to note that the Löwenmensch figurine from Hohlenstein-Stadel isn’t the only one of its kind. Further southwest, a smaller figurine of a similar appearance was found in Hohle Fels (a cave which also housed a Venus figurine). Whatever the lion-human meant to those ancient people, it may have been a motif in their cultural group. I personally wonder if the lion wasn’t a sort of totem for the group, whether or not the figurines represent fur-clothed hunters or a lion-headed spirit or deity. I’m not an anthropologist though lol.
This is actually how they explain these figurines in the Clan of the Cave bear books, the book I am named after. Although it's a fiction book, the author based a lot of the cultural elements in the book on possible explanations like this one. The cave lion is the totem of the main character Ayla, and is the second strongest of the totems. I've been wanting a cave lion video for a while now for this reason so I'm glad I finally get to know more about it.
@@jonaylahollisjh I’ve got the Valley of Horses but I want to find the first one before I start reading. Prehistory is such a cool setting for fiction.
@@whitegold2960 I mean, maybe. With how little we know they _could_ have had a comedy cult where they paid the figurine in carved beads for just looking so goofy. I feel like cave art would be a better place to look for prehistoric humor, personally, if it’s gonna be preserved at all.
I was working on a site in northern Europe which had cave lion bones (according to the specialist I spoke with). I remember many of these caves had big scratches very high up in the cave much earlier than the evidence of the first people using the cave as a cemetery. I asked about the scratches and people doing work in other caves noted these scratches very high up as being a common site in the caves of the area. They had a very striking look. Most of these caves also had fragments of cave lion. Caves are incredibly significant in prehistory and so would the giant things that lived and died long ago within them. I suspect the cave lion lived in the human imagination much longer than it lived on earth.
Cave Lions were always fascinating to me. The leonine family tree (modern lions, Cave lions, and American lions) was always interesting in just how important lions have been to human culture.
@@Spear_of_the_Raven_Ash American Lions and Cave Lions are sister lineages of the Modern Lion. So from all genetic evidence they have no relation to jaguars aside from both being in the genus Panthera.
What a beautiful animal! One that will surely go down in time as one of the most amazing creatures that has ever lived. Could you do a video on the ceratopsians, creatures that surely deserve an episode!
I am so jealous that ancient people have seen such amazing long ago extinct animals. *edit: before YOU reply, please read the other replies. You probably misunderstood my comment and you don't know what you are talking about.
It fascinating that DNA research shed light on the diversity of lions, but I always liked the idea that the lion being one species stretched its habitat from Africa and Europe till South America. Seems the "lion" fossils from South America are now removed from the lion cluster and consider to be related to jaguars.
@tigerLuver the idea that the lion (Pantera lion) was one species reaching as far as Peru I picked up in the Big Cats and their fossil relatives by Alan Turner 1997. That book was published before DNA reseach gave insight into the three seperated lion-species. The "South American lion" was an interpretation of the finding of the remains of of a large pantherine feline done in the late 19th century. Those finds are now consided to be a variant of the jaguar as Panthera onca mesembrina Read my post, it does not claim there was a species or subspecies of lions in South America, I just thought and liked the idea once, A 2017 paper The fossil American lion (Panthera atrox) in South America: Palaeobiogeographical implication by Chimento and Angolin does seem to support for an South America Panthera atrox, but it relies on morphology and not on DNA research. And it was DNA research that gave the seperation of the fossil lions into three closely related species.
@@kamion53 Panthera atrox (american lion) and Panthera spelaea (cave lion) were not actually lions. They were an entirely separate species from the lion (Panthera leo)
@@beastinfection638 Althrough the phylogeny of the big cats isn't as clear as wanted: some show the lion as closest related to the jaguar, others to the panther. the three species of lions are closer related to each other then to either jaguar or panther. Cave painting show big cats very simular to lions. We can safely consider the three to be lions, but three separate species of lions. But in science were are seldom dealing with absolutes, who knows what future research will show.
About the ancient figurines of human forms with animal heads: it has been suggested by A.V. Atayan that they represent the insight of ancient mystics/priests/scientists (back then those roles weren't yet separate) that all life is interconnected, albeit the term "Evolution" wasn't around yet. He also mentions somewhere that with the Ancient Egyptian diety with a crocodile's head, the snout ends right above the point where our eye-to-hand coordination is centered, as an example that such figurines can show more than we'd expect at first sight.
Not exactly cave men. Cave men is a slang term used for Neanderthals, a separate Homo species. They are just human. Our brains are pretty much the same hasn’t changed much since then. Living in the elements nature has a way of purifying species of all kinds.
Yep, I saw the same thing. I really don't think it could be anything else. Many ancients clothed themselves in objects that they revered, so it stands to reason they would want to take on the form of the most powerful creature in their surroundings.
I love PBS Eons so much. A feeling of euphoria every time I watch your videos. So chock full of information yet so calming to watch. Thank you for the amazing content.
Videos like this are why I subscribed to this channel. I love the little details that a basic question like this lead to and the surprising results when good evidence is found and added to the initial mystery.
Love this channel Also it still feels wrong to not have the “and Steve” at the end of the video, it just feels incomplete without it after it was there for so long
Science is so awesome. I love hearing new discoveries come out. I remember hearing about the frozen cave lion cubs but not the ensuing findings. Awesome.
That makes me so sad to think about those little cubs who never got to grow up :( I mean thanks for the info and DNA, but sorry you had to go so soon :(
My name actually comes from this book series so I've been waiting for an episode on cave lions for a while. I've recently been talking to people about a cave lion tattoo to honor Ayla's totem (since I don't think she gave Jonayla her own totem) so this video came out at a perfect time. Hope you enjoyed the book as much as my mom and I did.
Sadly the person who wrote those books had a very strange view of that time. The books are decent but any historical value in them should not be trusted at all.
You’re telling me that we’ve more the age of DNA we’ve been able to sequence is more than 16 times the age since back when I was a kid and heard of this! That’s magnificent! A T. rex - chicken comparison made years ago is obviously far, far older but was done based on protein sequencing, because proteins are wayyyyy more stable, but the fact DNA survived enough to be even slightly sequenced for 1.6 million years instead of under 100,000 years is so amazing!
Somehow PBS Eons hosts have the perfect voices for communicating science to all ages. Like I know what your explaining already at times but I never get the feeling I'm being talked to like a toddler. If that make sense... At the same time I feel like an 8 year old child could easily follow along.
Love Eons and the podcast so much! Recently took an invertebrate paleontology class and would love to see more videos about each of the earliest branches of life! I know you've got a few (sponges, echinoderms, squids, etc.) but would love to see some on hemichordates, ctenophores, byrozoans, brachiopods, etc. Thanks!
Man if only time travel was real. This stuff fascinates me and makes me wonder just what life was really like back then and what it would be like seeing these ice age animals out in the wild. Maybe one day it will be possible bc we have discovered many fossils from a lot of different species all throughout earths timeline but just judging on how many species there are today, we probably haven’t even scratched the surface of how many animal species there were in just one given time period let alone all of them throughout earths history
Panthera spelaea, also known as the Eurasian cave lion, is the extinct genus of the lion that most likely evolved in Europe after the third Cromerian interglacial, less than 600,000 years ago. Panthera atrox, also known as the North American lions, is the extinct lion species that lived in North America during the Pleistocene epoch and Holocene epoch about 340,000 to 11,000 years ago. I want to know about the extinct hippos species.
One day, someone in the far future will find some random art piece made by some five year old and be like "this probably had some deep symbolic meaning to their culture that we will never know."
Indeed, the toy had deep symbolic meaning that even his parents didn't know. It was the gold medal given to Floof the Hippo for winning the Carpet Games and he also got a house on the couch and he was an astronomer.
My favorite presenter is stunning in so many ways. Smart, savvy, beautiful, with a delivery I can listen to all day long. Great script and visuals round out the package. Kudos to all who create this series! 👍
The cave lion pelt would have been a great winter coat as well as a status symbol for the wearer. The carving may not be a fantastic character but simply a person in the common garb of lion pelts.
There are other cultures with similar, though less ancient, mixtures of humans and animals. One postulation is that figures like these may depict a human simply wearing the head of the animal as a hat or mask. The level of detail makes it hard to prove or disprove that idea.
What you carving Grug? - I am carving a lion rampant, Gog. - That no lion look to me, Grug! - Gog right, Grugs carvin bad, Grug hide his shame in a place where no-one ever find. some ice ages later -Yo guys you never guess what I just found, let's put it on display
Alternate hypothesis on that figurine: Someone in the tribe typically wore a lionskin cloak. This person had either a younger sibling, or child, or admirer... who carved a figurine of them... Plausible?
@@muhammadeisa1459 and without imagination and creativity, anthropologists would have less to look for and expect, same as with any science it's a shame about the lack of possibility to verify
Loved this report about cave lions, modern African lions, South and North American lions, and the ancient eurasian lions. I wish they were still with us. We used to know how to live alongside them. They are lost. And our knowledge is lost. 😢
In Greek mythology, Hercules killed the Nemea lion. This was a big lion that terrorized the region of Nemea, an ancient site in the northeastern part of the Peloponnese in Greece. This makes one wonder how far back these "mythical" stories go.
Just how close did the persons who painted the cave lions get to their subjects? Seems to me they were possibly stalking the same prey when it was suddenly realized that they were right next to the lions! Such close detail is really astonishing!
Fun fact = According to Dr Larisa desantis she has said that prehistoric lions were solitary and they lacked manes. Maybe the climate they were living in forced them to live in a solitary lifestyle. There were also several studies suggested they were solitary.
While I certainly can buy the maneless part I have a much harder time believing they were solitary. Most art shows them in groups, which are likely depictions of prides. Furthermore, the cave lion seems to have filled the same ecological niche as the modern lion. During the Ice Age, much of the world's steppe and open woodland ecosystems more closely resembled that of Africa's so this too would point towards them being social, or at least social for a feline.
@@mtukufu There isn't a hard distinction between solitary and social in modern panthera so it seems unlikely for their to have been a hard separation in extinct panthera species my guess would be that it varied based on conditions such as the availability of food and what type of prey they were pursuing. Cats as a general rule use scent markers to communicate (actually most mammals do in some form or another) and thus despite having large territories and not regularly meeting physically when solitary they are fully capable of shifting if conditions push them to do so. The real question should b e where did cave lions fall along the spectrum of sociability in cats?
The drawings of the cave lions at chauvet remind me of some modern art that gets critics all fired up. Even the fact that it has the french name, chauvet; "so fancy". Totally reminds me of the painting "Nude Descending a Staircase". Pretty amazing.
Shoutout the the ancient cave artists who went out of their way to included genitalia on their artwork so we in their future could learn male cave lions didn't have manes!
The whole debate about the cave lion’s classification is pretty trivial when you think about it. It’s either Panthera leo spelaea; a subspecies that is almost the same animal as the modern lion, or Panthera spelaea, a sister species of Panthera leo that is almost the same animal as the modern lion. See? The recently found four frozen cave lion cubs from Siberia, including Sparta, who looks like a freshly dead animal, have cemented their nature as just being a northern variant of the lion in terms of appearance and likely behavior as well. The whole “cave tiger” thing was just an ill-conceived maverick theory that never went anywhere.
Cave Lions most likely had coats similar in thickness to Siberian Tigers, Lions in Russia also develop thicker fur when living there, although the cubs cannot survive in Russia.
@@mtukufu I was thinking about did they utilize the land bridge as well? What I've found is that they are considered Cats. One thought is Lion the other is Tiger. That's the quandary.
@@mtukufu Idk much but I know that the closest living relative of the sabertooth is the Clouded Leopard. It is a species of its own, unrelated to leopards.
@@ShapeshiftingForestFae Well, that's only partly true. Clouded leopards (Neofelis diardi) are _morphologically_ fairly close to ancestral machairodontines. They are not sabertooths, but they might be on their way there. But they are not closely related to machairodonts, but instead make up the sister group to _Panthera_ which is the genus lions, leopards, tigers, jaguars and snow leopards belong to. Clouded leopards are not closer to the machairodontines than any other modern cat.
@@guyh.4553 Machairodonts originated in Afro-Eurasia and invaded the Amerikas via the Bering landbridge, yes. They also coexisted with and dominated the Felinae (conical-toothed "normal" cats) for most of their existence.
I wonder if the statue was less of a humanized/hybridized combo of lion and man and more of a depiction of a ritual or ceremony where someone wears the skin of a lion they killed. It mostly looks that way to me because there seems to be an opening where you can see the rounded part of the tusk, possibly to represent the head of the lion being worn like a hood with the person's face exposed. It could also depict some sort of animal spirit or deity as well, I suppose. Super cool either way!!
its great that studying other species tells us more about our own evolution by answering or raising questions and forcing new assumptions about things we couldn't guess or know about past circumstances. In this case, a side factor like how there were two separate groups of cave lions geographically split, also overlaps with Neanderthal and denisovan's split from each other over the same geographic regions. it may indicate that during the original expansion of animal populations into ice age ecological zones, there were more stringent geographic limitations based on environmental factors we haven't figured out the details of yet. or behavioral patterns that we haven't thought of. maybe very few ice age species actually lived in northern climates full time, and most migrated into them seasonally during the warmer months, much in the same way that in modern populations of the same species in Africa, they only occupy certain places during the wet season, making long migrations dependent on wet or dry seasons.
I am always astounded by the detail and accuracy of cave art. It really reminds me that these ancient humans were all every bit as intelligent and smart as we are today.
Totally, and that they spent a LOT of time looking at their subjects. I see a lot of love and reverence in the way they represented their surroundings.
@@Lishadra reverence... key word.
the Man-Lion is revered worldwide, w many churches deficated to NaraSimha esp in southeast asia.
the harekrishnas like me today are extremelt devoted. the image shown from the european is a Lakshmi Nr.Singhom. rarely mentioned: an altar was also found Right There for Him... : )
namasté narasimhaya ...
@@jorgegonzalez-larramendi5491 i had never heard about this before but thank you for reaponding with this. I think reverance is an incredible term to use. I hope you are well!
@@paddor well yeah they disnt have internet but their knowledge of day to day skills would have been vastly better than ours
If they weren't we wouldn't be here today 😉🙂
Don't you just love it that pre-historic records painted on a cave wall by our ancient ancestors are used in conjunction with modern paleontology to reach a scientific conclusion?
Just amazing!
Yes, I do. When I hear actors and politicians say, "I speak truth to power.", I giggle. No one cares. Speak truth by painting on a wall that depicts the reality of a moment as your community interprets it. Then leave it for the future...unedited or spoiled.
I know and I love it. I’m more interested in the paleontology side than the anthropology side of things but it’s so important for these fields to work together
Archeologists: “we’ll never know what these complex artistic renditions meant”
Ancient humans: “Tiger man, ha ha ha”
lol.
Probably one of their gods. Bring back Church of the Tiger Man.
The first fury
@@emmamcdonald8575 The first Sonic OC, do not steal.
I love the thinking that maybe scholars are discussing what religious significance this had, when in reality it was just carved by a prehistoric stoner.
probably just a toy.
5yr old boy: let's go Mr Lion, stomp on Swiper the Fox. Swiper no swiping! Rawwr!
Also him: Dad why doesn't Mr Lion have the mane?
Dad: Buddy I was too lazy to curve that sht out
The fact that male cave lions lacked manes brings up some distinct questions about how different the social dynamics were between them and modern lions. Typically, modern male lions don't participate much in hunting once they become a pride leader, and their manes are used to intimidate other male lions from attacking their cubs. Since male cave lions clearly couldn't do that it begs the question of whether or not the social groups of cave lions were as strictly defined as modern lions. Tigers, for example, can sometimes form temporary groups and even hunt cooperatively if the immediate prey conditions are right, so perhaps cave lions operated in a similar manner where social hunting was more common than in tigers but prides were not genetically similar family groups and could disband and reform multiple times in context to local prey diversity and abundance.
Great analysis thanks
Not all populations of African lions have manes today.
Lions do hunt,it is just that they are bulkier and prefer more heavily wooded habitat that makes their kills harder to observe.
Just saying but modern subspecies of lions like the Barbary lion were studied as not living in prides but rather pairs of only one lioness and one lion as mates. They did not live in prides unlike African lions. Also Indian lions only the females form hunting groups, the male usually is solitary throughout its life.
@@neonspawn7 The Asiatic male lion has a less developed mane, so perhaps there is some correlation with the current African family unit. Apparently the Barbary lion had an impressive mane though. In either case it seems to relate to male vs male fighting success.
Those cave artists were amazing. Their depictions are very detailed.
Kind of. Remember they’re in a cave. It’s not like you ask a lion to pose for you. So yes they’re very detailed but not hyper realistic. Still very beautiful though
@@bennu547 Dude seriously? Noone said the cave paintings were hyper or photo realistic. They're still very detailed, ESPECIALLY for the reasons you stated. They used primitive inks, without a reference to look at (maybe, it's also possible these genius cave artists dragged a dead specimen as reference) and made works of art that stood the test of time.
These are very detailed by all measures.
@@speakdino10 they probably used their bodies (or parts thereof) for drawing reference after hunting
These episodes are so cool! There was the Sahara Cave art episode, the Australian Megafauna episode, and now this one. I'm hoping there are more episodes to come about ancient artists and the cool animals that they drew.
So Amazing! I could stare at those depictions for quite a while. The technique and shading. The musculature accuracy of the cheek. The concentration of the brow. To think that very early humans were capable of producing this level of quality and anatomical accuracy, this just fascinates me.
I share the fascination that ancient humans had with cats. Such a harmonious blend of power and grace. Large or small, cats are just remarkable to me.
The fact that that fascination has been maintained is equally interesting!
Many women feel that way about cat's. I wonder if these ancient artists were women.
@@jaspersmom9595 Oh! That's an interesting hypothesis. 🤔
@@KimberlyGreen Women have always felt some kind of "spiritual" type connection to cat's. So it makes me wonder. Wolves seem to have an equal following of both sexes. Just my mind babbling, lol.
yep much nicer than monkeys. we still sling excrement to each other -
look at your cat's hands..
Can't wait for a video centred specifically on the Eurasian cave hyena. That bugger was literally _everywhere_ on the continent, and has one of the richest fossil records of any Pleistocene mammal, yet it is so often overlooked.
Ooh I'd definitely like to see that video!!
The eurasian cave hyena was the reason why humans couldn't migrate to North America from Beringia over the Bering strait. They could do so only after the hyeanas died out
@Vergilius Brutus posted
@Vergilius Brutus Hyeanas and humans in ice age Siberia by Christy Turner II
@Vergilius Brutus were you able to see it? See point 5 which addresses it.
The cave lion cubs where so exciting to me, I was overjoyed to see the find when it was announced, I feel sad for the babies and wonder what they went through but it's absolutely astounding that we have so many well preserved cubs.
Perhaps thru them, Cave Lions may once again roam the earth
Or maybe not
It’s interesting to note that the Löwenmensch figurine from Hohlenstein-Stadel isn’t the only one of its kind. Further southwest, a smaller figurine of a similar appearance was found in Hohle Fels (a cave which also housed a Venus figurine). Whatever the lion-human meant to those ancient people, it may have been a motif in their cultural group. I personally wonder if the lion wasn’t a sort of totem for the group, whether or not the figurines represent fur-clothed hunters or a lion-headed spirit or deity. I’m not an anthropologist though lol.
This is actually how they explain these figurines in the Clan of the Cave bear books, the book I am named after. Although it's a fiction book, the author based a lot of the cultural elements in the book on possible explanations like this one. The cave lion is the totem of the main character Ayla, and is the second strongest of the totems. I've been wanting a cave lion video for a while now for this reason so I'm glad I finally get to know more about it.
@@jonaylahollisjh I’ve got the Valley of Horses but I want to find the first one before I start reading. Prehistory is such a cool setting for fiction.
Or they thought it looked funny
@@whitegold2960 I mean, maybe. With how little we know they _could_ have had a comedy cult where they paid the figurine in carved beads for just looking so goofy. I feel like cave art would be a better place to look for prehistoric humor, personally, if it’s gonna be preserved at all.
Ancient fursonas...
I was working on a site in northern Europe which had cave lion bones (according to the specialist I spoke with). I remember many of these caves had big scratches very high up in the cave much earlier than the evidence of the first people using the cave as a cemetery. I asked about the scratches and people doing work in other caves noted these scratches very high up as being a common site in the caves of the area. They had a very striking look. Most of these caves also had fragments of cave lion. Caves are incredibly significant in prehistory and so would the giant things that lived and died long ago within them. I suspect the cave lion lived in the human imagination much longer than it lived on earth.
Do you have more info on this? I’m highly interested in hearing more
Probably the work of a Cave Bear, Cave Lions didn't really live in caves.
Yes, Pleistocene megafauna! Prehistoric lions! Cave art! This is my favorite area of paleontology. Thank you, Eons … nailed it again!
Cave Lions were always fascinating to me. The leonine family tree (modern lions, Cave lions, and American lions) was always interesting in just how important lions have been to human culture.
@@Spear_of_the_Raven_Ash American Lions and Cave Lions are sister lineages of the Modern Lion. So from all genetic evidence they have no relation to jaguars aside from both being in the genus Panthera.
@@thedukeofchutney468 *genus Panthera.
@@minutemansam1214 Thank you, I don’t know why on earth I said family as that would clearly be Felidea.
@@Spear_of_the_Raven_Ash bro there is literally a frozen cub cant you see these are lions?
@@Spear_of_the_Raven_Ash bruh cave lion and american lion are closest relative to lions
This episode really highlights the quality of story telling the the team at Eons produces. Thank you for sharing so much!
Lions, and Tigers, and Bears. Oh my. Thanks for sharing. Love your program.
one of the best episodes ever. It links paleontology with cultural history. Awesome
What a beautiful animal! One that will surely go down in time as one of the most amazing creatures that has ever lived. Could you do a video on the ceratopsians, creatures that surely deserve an episode!
I was too.... I just couldn't get my dumb phone to cast it!
Callie is my favorite Eons host. So cheerful and enthusiastic!
I am so jealous that ancient people have seen such amazing long ago extinct animals.
*edit: before YOU reply, please read the other replies. You probably misunderstood my comment and you don't know what you are talking about.
I'm not. They had to compete with these animals and might have even had to fight them. Sounds scary.
Yup from mammoths and giant wombats
@@sulam0166 yes with arctorus and cave lions
Much much more
They're jealous of your fridge
Modern day lion: “Who are you?”
Cave lion: “I’m you, but cooler.”
hah, cooler
@tigerLuverwrong. They also lived in the southern areas of the continent, as evidenced by the findings of fossils in Apulia, southern Italy.
@tigerLuver
the cave lion (Panthera spelaea) was actually considerably larger than the modern lion (Panthera leo).
@tigerLuver
lmao why are you so defensive? i never even said you were dumb. you have some self-esteem issues my guy 🤣
"Also they left their mark on us... " like, literally, we found human remains with cave lion chewing marks 😂
It fascinating that DNA research shed light on the diversity of lions, but I always liked the idea that the lion being one species stretched its habitat from Africa and Europe till South America.
Seems the "lion" fossils from South America are now removed from the lion cluster and consider to be related to jaguars.
Atleast wolves still exist living Africa, Asia, Europe and North America.
@tigerLuver the idea that the lion (Pantera lion) was one species reaching as far as Peru I picked up in the Big Cats and their fossil relatives by Alan Turner 1997.
That book was published before DNA reseach gave insight into the three seperated lion-species.
The "South American lion" was an interpretation of the finding of the remains of of a large pantherine feline done in the late 19th century. Those finds are now consided to be a variant of the jaguar as Panthera onca mesembrina
Read my post, it does not claim there was a species or subspecies of lions in South America, I just thought and liked the idea once,
A 2017 paper The fossil American lion (Panthera atrox) in South America: Palaeobiogeographical implication by Chimento and Angolin does seem to support for an South America Panthera atrox, but it relies on morphology and not on DNA research. And it was DNA research that gave the seperation of the fossil lions into three closely related species.
@@kamion53
Panthera atrox (american lion) and Panthera spelaea (cave lion) were not actually lions. They were an entirely separate species from the lion (Panthera leo)
@@beastinfection638 Althrough the phylogeny of the big cats isn't as clear as wanted: some show the lion as closest related to the jaguar, others to the panther.
the three species of lions are closer related to each other then to either jaguar or panther. Cave painting show big cats very simular to lions. We can safely consider the three to be lions, but three separate species of lions.
But in science were are seldom dealing with absolutes, who knows what future research will show.
@@kamion53
when you say "panther", are you talking about the mountain lion?
As always, right tone, clear story, everything wrapped up in a very entertaining clip. Thanks to Eons team.
About the ancient figurines of human forms with animal heads: it has been suggested by A.V. Atayan that they represent the insight of ancient mystics/priests/scientists (back then those roles weren't yet separate) that all life is interconnected, albeit the term "Evolution" wasn't around yet. He also mentions somewhere that with the Ancient Egyptian diety with a crocodile's head, the snout ends right above the point where our eye-to-hand coordination is centered, as an example that such figurines can show more than we'd expect at first sight.
So basically, cave men from 30,000 years ago are better artists than I’ll ever be.
Not exactly cave men. Cave men is a slang term used for Neanderthals, a separate Homo species. They are just human. Our brains are pretty much the same hasn’t changed much since then. Living in the elements nature has a way of purifying species of all kinds.
They also probably had more free time on their hands to practice art than a lot of modern people
The carving could be of a person wearing a lion skin, as I'm sure many have in the past.
There does seem to be something inside the lions outer cover.
Yep, I saw the same thing. I really don't think it could be anything else. Many ancients clothed themselves in objects that they revered, so it stands to reason they would want to take on the form of the most powerful creature in their surroundings.
HOW far back does the Herakles myth go?
Yeah probably, you'd have to be pretty badass to take down a cave lion back then so wearing it's pelt like that would be a huge status symbol
Or maybe even a bear? it would make sense too since it's standing on two legs
She has to be my favourite Eons presenter. Her voice is perfect for factural programs, great articulation.
I love PBS Eons so much. A feeling of euphoria every time I watch your videos. So chock full of information yet so calming to watch. Thank you for the amazing content.
You guys have been knocking it out of the park lately. Excellent video
I really appreciate the nod not just to the evolution of the cave lion but also the evolution of our understanding of what this animal might be.
Thank you ❤️ I absolutely loved this episode. It answered a lot of the questions I had about them and where they came from. Very very cool!
Videos like this are why I subscribed to this channel. I love the little details that a basic question like this lead to and the surprising results when good evidence is found and added to the initial mystery.
Love this channel
Also it still feels wrong to not have the “and Steve” at the end of the video, it just feels incomplete without it after it was there for so long
I miss Steve. I hope he's doing okay.
@@rxpt0rs He got eaten by a cave lion. :(
Who's Steve?
@@brianjensen5661 Steve was a patron that used to be named at the end of every video
And, Steve.
One of my favorite subject, please do more on large predators!
Science is so awesome. I love hearing new discoveries come out. I remember hearing about the frozen cave lion cubs but not the ensuing findings. Awesome.
Been hoping you guys would talk about these animals! As always great video !! Thanks guys ❤️
Easily one of my favorite TH-cam channels
That makes me so sad to think about those little cubs who never got to grow up :( I mean thanks for the info and DNA, but sorry you had to go so soon :(
"The figurine is beautiful" PFFFT! I nearly spat out my tea, good one PBS Eons.
I just finished reading The Clan of the Cave Bear, where cave lions make an important appearance! I'm so excited for the science behind the story!
My name actually comes from this book series so I've been waiting for an episode on cave lions for a while. I've recently been talking to people about a cave lion tattoo to honor Ayla's totem (since I don't think she gave Jonayla her own totem) so this video came out at a perfect time. Hope you enjoyed the book as much as my mom and I did.
Sadly the person who wrote those books had a very strange view of that time. The books are decent but any historical value in them should not be trusted at all.
Ah! The sex novels
@@ronnieakena7224 you are not wrong, had to skip most of the sex cause its so repetetive but aside from that they are decent.
@@sebastian114 the first book *was* written in 1980. Science marches on. It wasn't bad for the time.
Fascinating episode - thank you
There's never enough videos of ancient cats
You’re telling me that we’ve more the age of DNA we’ve been able to sequence is more than 16 times the age since back when I was a kid and heard of this! That’s magnificent! A T. rex - chicken comparison made years ago is obviously far, far older but was done based on protein sequencing, because proteins are wayyyyy more stable, but the fact DNA survived enough to be even slightly sequenced for 1.6 million years instead of under 100,000 years is so amazing!
What a fantastic episode! Love ice age megafauna!
I live just a few dozen km from the caves where these artefacts like the lion man were found :D Always glad to see them covered on this channel.
Awesome! I would love to hear more about the big cats in Europe like the European jaguar, the giant cheetah, Puma parodoides and Homotherium.
Somehow PBS Eons hosts have the perfect voices for communicating science to all ages. Like I know what your explaining already at times but I never get the feeling I'm being talked to like a toddler. If that make sense... At the same time I feel like an 8 year old child could easily follow along.
Yeah, but I can't stand the new host. Somehow she sounds conceited af. (and is f*ing wokie :D)
@@MegaSockenschuss mald
@@kR-qj7rw 🤡
Love Eons and the podcast so much! Recently took an invertebrate paleontology class and would love to see more videos about each of the earliest branches of life! I know you've got a few (sponges, echinoderms, squids, etc.) but would love to see some on hemichordates, ctenophores, byrozoans, brachiopods, etc. Thanks!
I saw the documentary where the cave lion cub was so well preserved it still had fur! and WHISKERS I might've cried over it
You guys are amazing story tellers.
Cave Lion: M E O W
Weather: *Changes.*
Cave Lion: *Ded.*
Man if only time travel was real. This stuff fascinates me and makes me wonder just what life was really like back then and what it would be like seeing these ice age animals out in the wild. Maybe one day it will be possible bc we have discovered many fossils from a lot of different species all throughout earths timeline but just judging on how many species there are today, we probably haven’t even scratched the surface of how many animal species there were in just one given time period let alone all of them throughout earths history
Panthera spelaea, also known as the Eurasian cave lion, is the extinct genus of the lion that most likely evolved in Europe after the third Cromerian interglacial, less than 600,000 years ago. Panthera atrox, also known as the North American lions, is the extinct lion species that lived in North America during the Pleistocene epoch and Holocene epoch about 340,000 to 11,000 years ago. I want to know about the extinct hippos species.
Well damn, now I want to know about the hippos too!!
@@JustinShaedo Me too
💥
@@shafqatishan437 🔥
@@JustinShaedo We know that hippos is related to whales. But we want to know more how they exist.
One day, someone in the far future will find some random art piece made by some five year old and be like "this probably had some deep symbolic meaning to their culture that we will never know."
Indeed, the toy had deep symbolic meaning that even his parents didn't know. It was the gold medal given to Floof the Hippo for winning the Carpet Games and he also got a house on the couch and he was an astronomer.
My favorite presenter is stunning in so many ways. Smart, savvy, beautiful, with a delivery I can listen to all day long. Great script and visuals round out the package. Kudos to all who create this series! 👍
About time someone talked about them.
Man I love this channel
The cave lion pelt would have been a great winter coat as well as a status symbol for the wearer. The carving may not be a fantastic character but simply a person in the common garb of lion pelts.
And that’s a big reason they are not here today
Kallie!!! Kallie!!!! Kallie!!! \o/
Best pun deliveries for "right meow" and "pawsome" =D
Great presentter as well, like all Eons presenters
Really interesting episode. I must check if you've done one about sabre-toothed cats - those beasts fascinate me
wow, im in love! The plesticione AND my pretty PBS Plunker!!
Ich gucke euch immer vorm einschlafen es ist immer super interessant und sehr gut erklärt :)
I would love a talking about nimravids, those little pseudo-cats absolutely fascinate me!
There are other cultures with similar, though less ancient, mixtures of humans and animals. One postulation is that figures like these may depict a human simply wearing the head of the animal as a hat or mask. The level of detail makes it hard to prove or disprove that idea.
What you carving Grug? - I am carving a lion rampant, Gog. - That no lion look to me, Grug! - Gog right, Grugs carvin bad, Grug hide his shame in a place where no-one ever find.
some ice ages later
-Yo guys you never guess what I just found, let's put it on display
Thag: _this is my Sonic character don't steal it_
My dad was in love with cave lion fossils, he spent years attempting to get some real teeth.
I'd rather have a good casting of one. Leave the real ones in the collections for study by professionals. Did he ever gat a real one?
Alternate hypothesis on that figurine:
Someone in the tribe typically wore a lionskin cloak. This person had either a younger sibling, or child, or admirer... who carved a figurine of them...
Plausible?
100%
wearing carnivore pelts probably inspired the outfits of the Aztec eagle, jaguar, and coyote knights
@@Jason75913 plausible but not verifiable. If it were that easy, anthropology wouldn't exist.
@@muhammadeisa1459 and without imagination and creativity, anthropologists would have less to look for and expect, same as with any science
it's a shame about the lack of possibility to verify
I've always kinda thought that figurine was maybe a carving of a chieftain or hunter with a cave lion headdress and fur.
Loved this, look forward to all these videos 🙂
During the Pleistocene, whereever you went, its fauna was like that of Africa.
Not Australia, Madagascar, New Zealand and to a lesser extent South America lol
Yup, and then we came...
Oof
Hopefully de extinction can clean up that mess
Anthropologists: "We cant tell if this object is purely artistic or ritualistic in nature."
Some Early Human: "Im Catman!"
Catman, Catman, Catman!
Last time i was this early, cave lions were still alive
Loved this report about cave lions, modern African lions, South and North American lions, and the ancient eurasian lions.
I wish they were still with us.
We used to know how to live alongside them.
They are lost.
And our knowledge is lost.
😢
In Greek mythology, Hercules killed the Nemea lion. This was a big lion that terrorized the region of Nemea, an ancient site in the northeastern part of the Peloponnese in Greece. This makes one wonder how far back these "mythical" stories go.
You guys make the best videos!! 👍💪
Just how close did the persons who painted the cave lions get to their subjects? Seems to me they were possibly stalking the same prey when it was suddenly realized that they were right next to the lions!
Such close detail is really astonishing!
Probably, even to this day this happens in Africa where tribes actually steal the parts of the prey from lions by intimidating them.
Siberia is an amazing place showing us animals from the past.
Curiosity killed the cave lion.
And nothing brought it back.
Well we did find two frozen cubs so there is dna floating around
And they are working on cloning them so your comment may not be true forever
7:21 what a beautiful picture
Fun fact = According to Dr Larisa desantis she has said that prehistoric lions were solitary and they lacked manes. Maybe the climate they were living in forced them to live in a solitary lifestyle. There were also several studies suggested they were solitary.
While I certainly can buy the maneless part I have a much harder time believing they were solitary. Most art shows them in groups, which are likely depictions of prides. Furthermore, the cave lion seems to have filled the same ecological niche as the modern lion. During the Ice Age, much of the world's steppe and open woodland ecosystems more closely resembled that of Africa's so this too would point towards them being social, or at least social for a feline.
Wouldn't the cave art debunk that? It's clearly depicting social animals.
@@mtukufu Lions are big and typically hunt prey smaller than themselves.
@@mtukufu There isn't a hard distinction between solitary and social in modern panthera so it seems unlikely for their to have been a hard separation in extinct panthera species my guess would be that it varied based on conditions such as the availability of food and what type of prey they were pursuing. Cats as a general rule use scent markers to communicate (actually most mammals do in some form or another) and thus despite having large territories and not regularly meeting physically when solitary they are fully capable of shifting if conditions push them to do so.
The real question should b e where did cave lions fall along the spectrum of sociability in cats?
@@thedukeofchutney468 well if we look at the dietary preference of the cave lions it usually resulted in a solitary behaviour.
The music is amazing in this video
Cave lion, cave bear, wolly cave rhino, cave dodo, cave mammoth, giant cave spider...
The ice age was rough!
New "Ark" DLC?
Cave dodo? Giant cave spider? I've never heard of those ones
thank you
Bring back the CAVE LION
One of my favorite video ever ❣️ thanks!
The drawings of the cave lions at chauvet remind me of some modern art that gets critics all fired up. Even the fact that it has the french name, chauvet; "so fancy". Totally reminds me of the painting "Nude Descending a Staircase". Pretty amazing.
*archaeologist finds baby cub fossil*
someone else: "Whats that?"
archaeologist: "This... is... SPARTA"
Shoutout the the ancient cave artists who went out of their way to included genitalia on their artwork so we in their future could learn male cave lions didn't have manes!
The puns compelled me to hit that like button, never fails to make me break a smile on my face.
Ancient lions hung out in caves because there were no cardboard boxes.
Wow, that is frickin awesome. I feel like big cats were the highest form of land predators.
The whole debate about the cave lion’s classification is pretty trivial when you think about it. It’s either Panthera leo spelaea; a subspecies that is almost the same animal as the modern lion, or Panthera spelaea, a sister species of Panthera leo that is almost the same animal as the modern lion. See? The recently found four frozen cave lion cubs from Siberia, including Sparta, who looks like a freshly dead animal, have cemented their nature as just being a northern variant of the lion in terms of appearance and likely behavior as well. The whole “cave tiger” thing was just an ill-conceived maverick theory that never went anywhere.
Cave Lions most likely had coats similar in thickness to Siberian Tigers, Lions in Russia also develop thicker fur when living there, although the cubs cannot survive in Russia.
great music selection for this one! loved it
Extremely interesting! This leads me to wonder Kallie what link there may be with the Sabertooth?
Machairodonts and scimitar cats diverged from the modern felines around 20 million years ago
@@mtukufu I was thinking about did they utilize the land bridge as well? What I've found is that they are considered Cats. One thought is Lion the other is Tiger. That's the quandary.
@@mtukufu Idk much but I know that the closest living relative of the sabertooth is the Clouded Leopard. It is a species of its own, unrelated to leopards.
@@ShapeshiftingForestFae Well, that's only partly true. Clouded leopards (Neofelis diardi) are _morphologically_ fairly close to ancestral machairodontines. They are not sabertooths, but they might be on their way there. But they are not closely related to machairodonts, but instead make up the sister group to _Panthera_ which is the genus lions, leopards, tigers, jaguars and snow leopards belong to. Clouded leopards are not closer to the machairodontines than any other modern cat.
@@guyh.4553 Machairodonts originated in Afro-Eurasia and invaded the Amerikas via the Bering landbridge, yes. They also coexisted with and dominated the Felinae (conical-toothed "normal" cats) for most of their existence.
This video was really amazing
I wonder if the statue was less of a humanized/hybridized combo of lion and man and more of a depiction of a ritual or ceremony where someone wears the skin of a lion they killed. It mostly looks that way to me because there seems to be an opening where you can see the rounded part of the tusk, possibly to represent the head of the lion being worn like a hood with the person's face exposed. It could also depict some sort of animal spirit or deity as well, I suppose. Super cool either way!!
Rescue Lion Remembers His Person After 13,000 years!
Best Chanel on TH-cam 🤙
its great that studying other species tells us more about our own evolution by answering or raising questions and forcing new assumptions about things we couldn't guess or know about past circumstances. In this case, a side factor like how there were two separate groups of cave lions geographically split, also overlaps with Neanderthal and denisovan's split from each other over the same geographic regions. it may indicate that during the original expansion of animal populations into ice age ecological zones, there were more stringent geographic limitations based on environmental factors we haven't figured out the details of yet. or behavioral patterns that we haven't thought of. maybe very few ice age species actually lived in northern climates full time, and most migrated into them seasonally during the warmer months, much in the same way that in modern populations of the same species in Africa, they only occupy certain places during the wet season, making long migrations dependent on wet or dry seasons.
Very nice analysis.
Amazing video.
American puma is much under appreciated - a truly majestic animal
Always interesting, thank you.