With the help of the hordes of 5 year old choo-Choo enthusiasts. The job retention rate for these workers isn’t great, though. After awhile they all switch over to being Pokémon trainers instead.
Honestly that's an area you'd have plenty of volunteers for. The "I REALLY like trains" crowd is definitely big enough if those people didn't have to work other jobs and could easily access the training to work on real trains.
Making emulators and roms is so far removed from making actual consoles. You don't see fan collectives manufacturing NESs from scratch. Nobody is working the silicon and lithium mines as a fan project to provide circuit boards.
@@esbenm6544 I thought slime also said that the hobbyist do it better than Nintendo yeah because they're decades away from when the originals were made. There are people on TH-cam who make and sell portable game cubes for half a grand could you imagine how expensive a portable GameCube would have been in 2001? And even then the portable game cubes are them taking the original components and putting them into something smaller. The famicom Clones are reproductions that are cheaply made and are still not better than an NES almost after 40 years.
When writing their video, how did Thought Slime not see the hypocrisy of telling economists to log off, then without blinking, literally seconds later, using fucking video games as examples of why people would want to do difficult manual labor jobs for no compensation?
Like, I'm pretty sure I've literally heard conservatives say people will do jobs like retail for little to no pay because there are videogames about retail. It's aggrivating.
@@honest_126 The irony being is pretty much all the videogames about retail I can think of are about how much it sucks lol. (Night of the Consumers comes to mind)
Tbh a better example of their point would have been ppl who volunteer for the internet archive or at animal shelters or libraries. Cleaning dirty kennels or shelving carts of books is a better example of ppl doing hard or tedious work by choice.
The power washing one got me cus I used to do it for a living. Fighting the pressure of the washer gun all day gives you tennis elbow and being wet all the time gives you trench foot. Not to mention inhaling all the chemicals that are being vaporized around you or climbing up a building while your gun tries to push you off. It doesn't really compare to sitting at a desk comfy and dry with no physical effort or danger 😂.
Reminds me of when I volunteered at the kennels. For free! I pulled on gloves and scrubbed the kennels down with a mixture of chemicals that clung to me for months. I couldnt smell properly for weeks afterwards. I was drenched in sweat and chemical disinfectant water got even into my hair. I cleaned cat litter boxes. That is one _heck_ of a smell. Washed bowls, cleaned kennels and swept. Moved heavy stuff around. Cleaned up feces and vomit etc etc I did it for free. But its _not_ pleasant. Even when its something you want to do, games definitely do not ever hit the reality of *manual labour* I feel like people forget what manual in manual labour means.
@@elvingearmasterirma7241 I know it was in the past but please take appropriate precautions when around chemicals! Use masks or other heavier equipment when surrounded by dangerous chemicals for an extended period of time. Please stay safe!
@@garretthunter2916 Seconded. PPE is important. If you're volunteering for an organization that deals with potentially toxic or hazardous chemicals they should be providing you proper PPE. If they do not, ask. If they still don't, leave.
Of course. People are motivated by and act upon the prescriptions of social constructs. Like how language isn't a thing of the material world, but is nonetheless very real.
The problem is that Thought Slime's argument only works at a small scale. I do think economists are overly cynical about human nature and don't give enough credence to the power of social community and belonging, instead thinking of humans as computers that will do the purely logical thing that we're preprogrammed to do in whatever economic system they're talking about. But humans are much more nuanced than that. I don't find it a ridiculous notion that some people will do unpleasant work voluntarily, that happens all the time in real life with cleanup programs and the like. If I lived in a small, tight-knit community where I felt loved and valued, I could imagine people volunteering for sewer work and feeling pride in knowing that their work is necessary and valued among the community without the need for extra incentives. The problem is that once you start scaling up, and start atomizing/alienating your citizens, that's when it gets tough to get that feeling of community, that sense of being valued, and it becomes a "not my problem" issue.
This is why social friendly infrastructure is important... If you have several tight knit communities promoting people to voluntarily be conscientious of the needs of everyone, sverything that needs doing gets done. When you segregate people with cars, and no nice walkable public spaces, and 24/7 propaganda about rugged individualism and fearing your neighbors, of course we can't have nice things... But these are structural, not human nature. That alienation is not inevitable.
Imo the best way of handling the issue of "who does the dirty jobs under a fairer society " is to just make the dirty jobs have high reward potential. Almost no one WANTS to maintain septic tanks or sort recycling at a plant or shovel crap for a living, few will do it voluntarily even by societal need. If we collectively acknowledge these types of jobs are vital and society will crumble without it being done well and promptly, just reward the fuck out of the ppl who do it
Not even at a small scale does it work. Economists overall are in the right here, there are jobs that are so bad there has to be a strong incentive to do them. Sewage work for one I can’t imagine many people wanting to line up. You have to remember a lot of the work being done is because people have to do it not because they want to. Just go to any fast food restaurant, the staff there aren’t thrilled but it pays bills. I think social community is a naive way to look at human nature. Economists aren’t cynical you’re just naive about human nature.
@@Darkloid21 is "it needs to be done for the betterment of our community" not incentive enough? If there was no profit motive that keeps down the amount of people for an unpleasant job and lowers resources put into the task (better tools, more automation), would the task not become easier as more people band together to do it and use advanced technology to make it even better? Do people dislike working at macdonalds because it's a food industry, or because it's set up in a way that is exploitative and soul-crushing? I've worked in a restaurant where i enjoyed every moment, and I've done "unpleasant" tasks like street cleanings and clearing up waterways. There is satisfaction to be found in doing things that bring people comfort and service your community, and they are much better done when there are other people doing them with you.
@@parrot998 I feel like there's something far more lingering of an issue (I will mention it if needed) rather then just car centric infrastructure. While I don't disagree that having the need to be driving to Walmarts and schools , PARKS even all the time creates isolation, there is an incentive even in those environments to try and socialize, which I assume was the case back then. Now it's just gone.
"people play a game where they pretend to drive a big machine, so they'd be willing to take the risks of actually driving a big machine for free" is a heck of a take.
Hmm, this Call of Duty do be kinda fun, maybe even more fun would be in a battlefield where bullets are flying everywhere and either my legs are getting blown off or I'm seeing that happen to other people. All while the CEO of Northrop Grumman gets even richer. That would be a blast.
I was always a leftist and itslalways so refreshing when Vaush calls out dumb oversimplified near-to-conspiracy-tales takes by other leftists. I was annoyed by these dumb takes offline my whole adult life.
I'm also a leftist and an adult and its fucking stupid to see leftists calling out and harming other leftists movements and personalities. We shouldn't be publicly fighting each other, instead we should be supporting each other and fighting the actual enemies we all have. Slime and Vaush are ultimately fighting the same enemy, using different methods.
The most annoying types of people imo. And when they think they’ve figured something out did they ever even make an active effort to parse the current evidence or different takes and weight them objectively? Never. Grown ass adults somehow think they can just solve the worlds problems in their minds without doing anything even remotely work.
Let’s not forget the bias associated with lifetime devotions and self protectionism. Though I agree we have no choice to defer to the experts, as someone mislead in the past it gets harder to trust As you get older and have been betrayed by those posing as expertise,.😊
I'd like to formally apologize to anyone who saw my cringe as hell comment. It would appear I somehow butt dialed but instead of dialing I replied to a comment with "L😊😊😊"
It is painful how often lefties cede the entire concept of economics to the right when we have the objectively better, freer, more efficient economic theories on our side every single time.
*doubt* But yeah, it is frustrating and funny just how easily so many leftists completely disregard basic economics entirely. Especially considering that a large chunk of all leftists governments that have existed and collapsed throughout history did so due to economic mismanagement. Trotsky (him off all people!) realized this back in the day, which is why he wanted to hire former czarist economists to manage the state economy. This was one of the reasons why he eventually became isolated, making it easier for Stalin to take over.
I can kind of see why it happens - you have "economist" talking heads on TV who say everythings fine because line going up, but that's not an excuse to write off an entire field.
Doubt all you want guys but it's true. One example is Vaush's Finland study (and other UBI related studies). Lefty economic discourse works more often on the basis that people don't need to actually be threatened with death to work. It's neoliberal economics that does that. Another example from my own personal research: the way banks loan money was recently empirically proved to be what's called "chartalism" (making money out of thun air) not rhe more right wing preferred idea of "fractional reserve" lending. Because the implications are more left wing: bank lending is inherently risky to the economy and must therefore be heavily regulated or simply nationalised. Then there's, like, 95% of UnlearningEconomics' channel where he discusses things like: 1) how the minimum wage can be up to 80% of the median wage, which is way higher than most places; 2) how wprker co-ops aren't perfect but are probably a very viable alternative to LLCs , at the very least in most areas of business; 3) how the gender wage gap exists, even if why it exists and how it works is a little more complicated...and the policies that would eliminate it; 4) AND MORE!!! As Stephen Colbert said years ago, reality has a left wing bias. Which is why people like TS infuriate me: they undermine our greatest argument - empirical reality - in favour of vibes and wishful thinking.
Thought slime managed to full circle the meme about a parent complaining that their kid won't mow the lawn but loves lawn mowing simulator or something like that.
The argument that getting a UBI every month, thats less than half of just my mortgage alone, would somehow make it so i never show up to work again always makes me laugh
I have concerns that a universal UBI can't exist absent price controls. Without controls on prices, what is to stop corporations and landlords from simply raising prices to capture this new slack. They couldn't do this in the limited test programs done so far because the recipient pool is far more narrow than the general population. A UBI alone is flawed policy and would need to be paired with much more intrusive economic regulation. Which, as AI and automation increases, is going to be necessary frankly. Just look at the way hedgefunds are manipulating rents and house prices to stratospheric levels to increase profits.
@@fifiadannot neccisarily. Due to automated systems value can be created with significantly less human input. What took 50 people 100 hours to do can now be done in one evening by two men with a harvester and grain truck. Thus this excess value generated can be appropriated to others in the form of UBI. This is of course a small example. The real thing that often pumps up inflation is actually large companies who inflate their stock values beyond a reasonable amount with stock buy backs and the like. Nothing genuinely new has been generated but now there is "more" money in the economy even though no new goods or services have actually been created. One example was the roaring twenties into the great depression. The inflation of stock prices pushed so much money into the economy that when the stock prices crashed to correct for that over inflation of value deflation struck the hardest it ever has.
As a farmer, the gaming analogy is extremely funny. According to Thought Slime, since ppl like playing Farming Simulator there are hordes of people who wants to be farmers. Only in game, every dirty, back breaking and dangerous part of the job is magically gone, jobs take 100x less time than in reality, there's no risk that a draught/flood/storm destroys all your crops, your cattle don't get sick or break out of the pasture exactly at the same time that you're crunching to harvest the barley before a rainstorm. It's all fun and laughs driving a cool pixel tractor for 10 minutes to cultivate a field, it's another thing entirely to drive up and down a field for 12 hours straight and when you go home you've covered 1/3 of the field and you have 50 more fields to get to.
Right? Anyone who believes this to be true obviously doesn't understand even a minut portion of the dedication and work it takes to keep a farm functioning much less productive.
Hey bud, thanks for being a farmer. I might have never eaten your food but I know how important you amd what you do is. Hope you're finding ways to improve the health of the land and make your crops more resiliant with climate change fucking so much over.
You better be getting subsidies. If Michelle Bachman can get them for her farm while she tried to destroy welfare for the working class, then you deserve them too!
You put things pretty well as usual mate! I'm not sure why it's necessary to make such a straw man case for leftist economics. Obviously, you can question the profit motive, especially with modern shareholder value capitalism. You can also point out that people have other motivations for work than money. But to generalise from those insights into "we don't need to do or think about economics at all, everyone will do what they feel like and it will match with society's needs" is beyond laughable. Ironically, it's almost like the Panglossian free market arguments that everything will be produced that needs to be produced, just without the market part. The tweet got a lot more attention than I intended. Most of the people in my mentions were in agreement, unfortunately it made its way to right wing twitter so you got the usual misgendering and other unpleasantness, but once it hit the 'anarchists' I felt like I was taking crazy pills. People were doing some serious motte and baileys from the more extreme version to the more respectable version and as you pointed out, the irony was used to hide the fact that the points made were completely incoherent. There is nothing salvagable in that monologue that could not have been said better and STILL with humour. Anyway, my next video this month is on free stuff and will speak directly to all your points about UBI. There is a lot of evidence it has no effect on work incentives. But it's a much smaller and more specific policy than throwing out the whole economy and starting from...no ideas at all? Much love xoxo
@@fachriranu1041 job guarentee's tend to just lead to people being employed in positions they really don't need to be and end up a drain on whatever firm they're working at
@@sataniccabal4276 Because uniquely the classics and FNV will prepare you for real things like being kidnapped by brain robots and fighting psychic mutants
Another aspect I've already seen mentioned is sure, some people like to tinker and solder circuitboards and chips together, but who works the factories producing them? And who's going into the mines to extract the raw materials needed to produce them? I still like Mildred in some capacity, and I don't think they're a terrible person, but a lot their recent takes have been complete brain worms.
His premise is absurd. No one alive could manufacture a SEGA Genesis from scratch, from gathering the raw materials to generating the plastic to sourcing the code. It's not just physically impossible, but mentally as well. It's not a bloody lego kit, no one dreams of making plastic.
@@jakebarker7419 I mean it's not impossible per se but it's so incredibly impractical that it might as well be impossible. The journey required for someone to be capable of such a feat is absurd to expect of anyone.
Do you really NEED to develop consoles from scratch though? I feel like most new gens nowadays just offer hardware upgrades (better graphics etc), and that would easily be doable with the same skillset as modification. And for the real innovative type stuff (something akin to motion sensor games - obviously we already have those, but if I could come up with real gaming innovation, I'd be rich), you'd definitely find people who'd be into that. Making more of the same is mostly something manufacturers / factory workers will do, and I'm pretty sure you'll find people doing stuff like this, at least as a sort of "default boring labor" people can do before they actually find their passion.
Mildred has never attempted to express this argument in real life to anyone who wasn't already primed to agree with everything they said. If they did, they'd have realised how unbelievably stupid they sound trying to articulate it.
They probably know how stupid it is, and are at bare minimum smart enough not to express it to just anyone. Pretty wild thoughless is diving head first into anti-intellectualism publicly now though lol
Thought Slime's logic: All Harvest Moon players will be perfectly willing to get up at very early hours in the morning to work long days tending to massive crop fields and cleaning up piss and shit from live stock.
@@asherheart3574 uh .. I guess the animals? Lol. Sorry but a "consent based society" to the point where we're vegan is a delusional pipe dream. A crack pipe that is.
Their gaming take is hilarious. Anyone who's ever been near a farm knows it's not just fun and games. It can be great, baby animals are cute, and seeing the fruits of your labor is very satisfying. However. I know for a fact Mildred has never shoveled manure in the middle of winter. I know they've never had to hand-mow grass with a scythe in the midday sun or herd cattle from the woods after they've escaped. It's grueling work, and I've managed to gather that from the few weekends I spent helping out.
People do gardening and small-scale agricultural activities like sheep herding and beekeeping irl when it makes little economic sense, so it's perhaps not the best counterexample, but surely a lot of other necesary tasks would never get done. In small communities throughout history people did their part often without formal sanctions because otherwise they would become deeply disliked, but that wouldn't work in a modern urban setting.
@@Darkloid21 if you didn't help out with communal tasks like cleaning ditches in a village did you really STARVE? You'd still have your own fields and so on. You might starve if you had some misfortune while someone who was known to be more solidaric might get help in that situation.
Mildo's condescending response to Unlearning Economics on Twitter, which amounted to "pfft wow, you didn't realise I was joking? What an idiot" is just the cherry on top - if the "joke" wasn't expressing a genuine belief at its core, what was the point of it at all? A completely un-serious person, and the fact they're maybe the most prominent anarchist youtuber is honestly perfect.
It's like showing a block of lumpy marble and saying here's my sculpture,, and when you get criticized for it being garbage, you say "oh that part isn't part of the sculpture, the sculpture is under that"
I'm still subbed to them, because they were the first "left-tube" channel I ever discovered and I'm honestly still thankful for that, but I haven't actively watched a vid in quite a while, a lot of them left me disappointed because they feel like your typical liberal bs but with the aesthetics of more radical views.
It’s honestly terrifying to imagine how spineless you’d have to be to apologise for saying ‘nanners’ lmao. I actually think I’d LowTierGod myself before I ended up like that lmaooooo
It's only just occurring to me now but the decay of leftist thought online is a great example of important work that isn't getting done due to lack of incentives, with the exception of a tiny club of weird hobbyists.
"Accomplishing things feels good!" Please explain that to my ADHD brain, because it doesn't seem to understand that. At all. I don't get the good feels from accomplishing things in a traditional way. I get the good feels from abandoning one project to start on another one which will also not be finished.
As someone with ADD, my brain gets the good feels from finishing a project, but it's still very hard to make myself _do_ that because my brain wants to move onto the next project which will also never be finished _anyway._ The genuine sense of accomplishment is, for me, very real… but _getting_ there, instead of just starting the next thing, is painfully difficult. Plus, I have so much guilt over all the stories I've abandoned. The tabletop RPG campaigns I've let die or never started, the characters I came up with or even started writing whose stories were never told… every one of them feels like a murder I committed.
@@FlameUser64 EXACTLY. Trying to explain to people who don't have the problem is so difficult, because they think it's laziness. And I'm over here having my brain convince me that spending 700 dollars a month on COBRA for three months for insurance is easier than going to the marketplace, because my brain is that opposed to doing that thing. I don't want to spend that much money. I can't start my own business as an artist. I have too much anxiety that I'm going to get legally prosecuted if I utilize any aspect of someone else's work, and I don't trust myself to actually finish any commissions I get. I can be more hopeful, but I also know myself enough to know that if I'm not honest about how I function, I'll just feel guilty and terrible when things don't actually get done. I do things too thoroughly, but I burn out before they are completed. I go to my job, I don't like my job, but my meds wear off by the time I get home, so I end up not actually bringing myself to really apply for other jobs. If I have a job that schedules later in the day, it ruins things, because I won't take my meds until right before I leave for work, because I can't function productively at work without them, but it also means that everything that I tell myself at bed the night before that I will get done in the morning doesn't actually happen. So, dishes stack up. Art gets pushed off. Taxes don't get done. People are like, "Well, build a portfolio yourself!" And I can try, but that would require finished projects. I didn't realize until I was expected to function on my own the sheer scale of things that I SHOULD be able to do that just end up being overwhelming due to ADHD and OCD. And these are all problems I have while I am actively prescribed and taking Adderall.
Thought Slime: "Violent video games don't cause mass shootings." Also Thought Slime: "You play Powerwash Simulator? I guess that means you're cool with spraying down the sewers for free."
Honestly this is where the currency free economics of Star Trek fall apart for me. Like how does the Federation do the dirty deeds that need to get done just to keep civil infrastructure running?
@@OsirisLord You have to do your job or else they take your living quarters and such away. Just like if you lose your job in capitalism. Just goes to show, capitalism is lawful evil and communism is chaotic evil.
Honestly, i think it’s probably better to have at least a paid core of professionals-guys and gals who are paid to hang out in the station with the equipment in case Something Happens. Now, maybe there are studies that prove my instinct wrong, but that’s my instinct.
@@GigasGMX Well, your instinct is wrong and you have capitalism brain rot. If people do a task because they are passionate about it they will do a much better job than someone that just gets payed to do it. And lots of people happen to be passionate about being fire fighters, imagine that. Hanging out in the station with the equipment in case something happens is literally what they signed up to do. The only reason to have paid fire fighters is when you don't have enough volunteers, like in big cities.
I can personally attest that simplistic anti-intellectual takes are rampant in real life and can stop someone being a leftist for a long time. I didn't like Bernie for years, for example, because nearly everyone I personally knew who was into Bernie (and talked about it) talked like this.
3:32 Nintendo didn't "stop making Nintendos", they made shinier, more powerful Nintendos. Is ThoughtSlime actually living in an alternate reality where Nintendo just stopped making shit after the NES?
I work at a tech company on smartphone driver software and I cannot even start to describe how totally batshit the idea of 100% hobbyist consumer electronics is. It may seem plausible because there's now a decently large market for hobbyist products, but putting together off the shelf components and writing some code is the easy part. Developing and fabricating a modern phone processor from scratch is extremely far outside of the realm of what hobbyists can do. The most advanced EUV photolithography machines cost literally billions of dollars each, and there's also IC packaging machines, pick and place robots, reflow ovens, the entire ultrapure silicon supply chain...
ThoughtSlime looked at the YT shorts guy who mows lawns for fun and for free, and said: "wow we can just make the entire economy work on people like this!"
When he used the argument that people will always be willing to do menial work because there are people that play videogames based on such work, I feel really bad for him. It is pretty embarrassing and pathetic
I think that there's a bit of truth to the idea that most of us wouldn't feel comfortable being idle for too long. And rather than say "Economics is a lie.", I think it's more accurate to say "Neoclassical Economics is built on a couple of false premises.": Humans are more often social creatures rather than individualists, and rather than seeking to self-maximize, we usually just compete, or at least try not to feel inferior to our peers. And I think non-military options for national service could be a way to get folks to do those unpleasant but necessary jobs. At least until AI and Robots can take over the unskilled labor market.
The funniest part is economics is more pro-socialist then capitalist. capitalism is constantly being shown as ineffective and impossible to graph without adding a huge number a factors. Each of which are economist admitting the real world doesn't align with capitalist thought.
Is that why China became the second most powerful economy only after they switched to a market economy? /s Socialism is not supposed to be effective (and it isn't), it's supposed to be just.
@@jlp6864 this isn’t evidence of socialism working , it’s evidence of the flexibility of capitalism , that it can allow for different methods of gaining capitol . Socialism is literally what thought slimes positions are
@@brutuslugo3969 idk how people can talk so confident about things they know nothing about, really strange... its absolutely evidence that having one or a few bosses who decide everything a company does is not reliable and collective ownership is a more stable way of organizing a company (collective ownership of the means of production is socialism btw)
I don't know if Unlearning Economics is planning on making a video responding to TS but I sure hope he does! When the cringe is coming from inside the house someone's gotta address and UE has a solid track record when it comes to that, so to speak.
Studies have shown that 4 hours per day is more productive in basically every job. There’s some weird exceptions (most notably, nursing is safest with just a few Really Long shifts per week, since most nursing mistakes happen as a result of shift changes), but that’s the overall rule.
Look, this was addressed all the way back in Upton Sinclair's *_The Jungle,_* where it was explained that a Socialist society would, of course, have different salaries for different jobs, "or we would have a million rural mail carriers and no coal miners". That line was especially memorable to me because at the time, I was married to a rural mail carrier who was frequently enthusing about the delights of her job.
As long as can remember I’ve always thought the 💩iest jobs should pay the most money. An actor for example isn’t only acting for the money but they, usually, love their job.
The neat thing about economics is that most economic theory actually points very clearly towards social democracy and a strong welfare state with policies like UBI and universal healthcare as the best system for fostering a strong economy. Politicians just ignore all of that, because despite the rhetoric their goal isn't actually the strongest possible economy, it's propping up the sectors of industry that they're directly benefiting from via donor money or actual direct investments of their own. If we actually let economists decide our economic policies the left would get a massive wave of Ws overnight.
Nintendo's was likely the worst example thought slim could have chosen. Like the amount of small parts required to make the Nintendo which come from several different specialized factories would cease. Who TF would find making the smallest little rubber washer for a Nintendo? Like really?
Yeah and even if all that was somehow magically getting done, who is shipping the parts to where they need to go so someone can actually assemble them? And for what reason would someone mass produce this stuff?
@queerdo emulators run on computers which have the exact same issues. One factory makes computer chips that then ships it to another factory which makes GPUs and CPUs with these chips. These chips are also used to make vehicles, home appliances, phones, etc. They're a long lengthy supply chains that would be extremely hard to uphold without some sort of profit incentive.
@@charliekahn4205 Great. Can you think of several people that would like to load cargo onto trains all the time too? What about shipping it from the train to the factory for assembly? To keep our economy running we need a ridiculous amount of reliable infrastructure.
If we're gonna use gamer behavior as a social reference, i'll put it this way; You don't need life or death to get people to do insane hours of monotonous video game grinding, you just need to offer them a shiny ring, a rare, an upgrade, etc. People love grinding to have nice things even without the threat of starvation
You know what's funny? It's that Thought Slime has 3 videos on his channel describing the crummy/degrading jobs he had before TH-cam. Granted, the videos do contain a caveat that these jobs would be bearable - perhaps even enjoyable - if the workers were given more control and automony over their workplace. But by *his own admission,* he kinda concedes that there are many jobs that nobody really wants to do, like working at Tim Horton's or a shitty pizza place at a gas station.
ya know why people dont want that? because or the system we live under. i would definitely be fine serving people food and cleaning tables, if i did it for the good of the people who want the food and not for the profits of the corporations. you wouldnt be locked into one activity for the rest of your life under risk of homelessness and starvation like you do now, you could just do what needs to be done. there are people who enjoy dirty jobs, people who like building things, people who like destroying things, why do people fall into the idea of thinking no one would do anything if it werent for the capitalist threat of death by starvation. its the same line of thinking as capitalists, acting like humans just couldnt possibly do anything on their without someone controling and dictating every decision.
Mildred literally explains how workers would enjoy their work if they had more control over it, and that's why he thinks that his jobs sucked. I know Thought Slime make a bad video, but your critique of it is even worse lmao
Living in college dorms, and then later in military barracks. I can tell you right now that nobody is gonna clean a bathroom, much less sewers, unless they get hounded on by a superior or get money.
In all fairness, those are particular cultural spaces. I've been in places where toilets get cleaned without pay or rank. Thing is, we've pretty much all grown up without community responsibility being a strong social value.
@@evelyncarr6421 People naturally want to help and contribute out of social need, empathy. This is how humans lived naturally thousands of years in tribes. Also most things now that are not automated can be automated.
I think that was a loose use of language from Vaush. He clearly does see the two as different because the very next sentence is a pivot from arrest into "social pressure". He was lumping the state threat of arrest in with other forms of actual social pressure, because what he meant was "non-financial incentives" without being technical about his phrasing.
@David Cauley I didn't say it, but there's that too. At a certain point, whether or not a promise of negative consequences is social pressure or violent compulsion becomes a distinction without a difference, and whether or not it was selected by the state or by a vigilante group of socially conscious community members...likewise. This is where I find twitter-anarchists will retreat into semantics games: "do you believe that people will have to be coerced/incentivised into doing things they don't want to do to maintain society?" They absolutely refuse to answer the question, they will retreat into definitions and semantics, and they will make you the bad guy for trying to get them to answer the question because they know that either the answer is "no" (which sounds naive and, even if it isn't, requires a lot of empirical evidence) or "yes" (in which case we need to discuss incentive structures, which twitter-anarchists, but notnavtual thoughtful anarchists, reject in principle). I don't know if that's the mindset behind OP's post - it could also be just misinterpreting Vaush's loose language - but I have a feeling because this tendency to jump on even the smallest misuse of language is a key tactic int he semantic dodging they twitter-anarchists will do. But hey, I could be wrong! It's why I chose the more charitable interpretation of their disagreement.
@@ProfDCoy totally with you, it bakes my mind how few people are actually aware of when they are making an argumental logic that is only possible within the semantic frame they set, rather than finding the most accurate semantics for the PRAGMATIC/SYSTEMIC variables. I wish more folks would learn the basics of Korzybski's General Semantics ("The Map is not the Territory"), And Bourland's simplification of GS called E-Prime. If everyone were educated in that, and logical fallacies, I suspect 90% of ideological arguments wouldn't occur, because most ideological arguments are abtract NOISE, not pragmatic signal.
@@ProfDCoy the lib right does this all the time... You're not "forced" to do x, y, or z, but there definitions of property rights mean ultimately you will be murdered if you don't.
I stopped watching thought slime after their Trans dating episode that said if you aren't attracted to transwomen, regardless of anything else, you are transphopic. It played lime someone watched Contrapoints' are traps gay video, then received a massive head injury and tried to recreate it.
I worked in fast food. Absolutely hated it. It set off my depression and anxiety badly. It was always so hot, and fast paced. It caused me a lot of physical pain. But because I used to play the Papa Louie games, I obviously have a passion for it and wish to go back. 🙄
And if you were a part owner of that restaurant, had a say in the menu, could dismiss unruly customers at a whim, and do generally everything you ever wanted to do at that job that your boss wouldn't allow you to because it would "look unprofessional", then you wouldn't have hated it nearly as much.
On one hand, yes Vaush, every single job has some kind of die hard hobbyist or general enthusiast, except maybe retail, I mean I'd get into that desert construction job you used as an example. That being said, it's likely some jobs would have serious worker shortage issues, and it's likely that most jobs would be done less efficiently, it would be insane to think otherwise
Yeah that's true. As you say, the issue is that for every one person that would love to spend the rest of their lives cleaning, there are like 10,000 cleaning jobs that society needs to function.
while I do think this is broadly true, I also think that people would still work with ubi just for the sake of getting money. Entry level jobs are accessible and would be probably the default jobs people would take because going through schooling or certification is now less valuable. People will still want those high level jobs too, especially with the resources to pursue them without starving, but if all I want is to buy 5 AAA games a week or order delivery for every meal, cleaning toilets would be acceptable. Basically, everyone would be put in the position of teenagers who live with their parents--many of them work to get things they want, even if they don't need it.
Retail definitely has these people, they are just special needs. I had a coworker who said that he had always wanted to work for the specific company we were at, that was the extent of his ambition. While people like him are definitely very valuable, you can't run an organization purely off of people like that, you're gonna need some miserable people.
People don't feel a passion for cleaning sewers. They feel passion for doing something valued and needed in their community. The problem is how our society separates and isolates us so that that sense of community is gone.
@@doublethick5752I agree with your upper post, but you cannot convince me that Mildred is engaging in responsible messaging with the way they address economics here. The problem is Mildred’s messaging, not leftist theory or ideas.
I literally always have to specify what politics i like without using “socialism” or whatever because i would never in a million years be associated with people like mildred
That's basically part of becoming a fully matured socialist, being one without ever mentioning it because at this point the term clarifies nothing and obfuscates everything.
Well honestly his position is the most accurate and faithful representation of socialism. Anything less just isn’t socialism . Vaush might say he’s a socialist but his positions are more in line with the system we have in the US . Just with more safety nets
@@brutuslugo3969 No its not. Socialism literally just means that labour is owned by the worker. So a job at a worker cooperative and state owned business are both Socialist in different ways. Look up Mutualism or Syndicalism.
@@gljames24 a country can be capitalist and have its companies all be worker coops… workers owning the means of production is a slogan , there’s more to socialism than that …
By the logic of the Power Wash Simulator argument, anyone who likes Portal would enjoy being a test subject at Aperture Science labs, anyone who likes Who's Your Daddy would enjoy being a suicidal baby, and anyone who likes Sonic would enjoy being a robot-fighting blue hedgehog.
I also would like to be a blue hedgehog with super sonic speed capable of ripping through metal with ease. In the atelier series you use alchemy to make items and fulfill the requests of people. You go out into nature, gather materials, buy them and combine them to make things like food, cloths, bombs and yellow fire swords. While alchemy may not be real the means to create things people need like food and cloths is. I wouldn't want to in real life because of all the real world worrying about money and paying bills. I'd potentially like working as a smithy if it didn't take up the entire day. Not the process of smithing it self but the required work hours.
We simply don’t live in a world where we can have anything beyond homesteading villages of 500 people if markets don’t exist. Markets are not bad. It is not a bad thing to have people pay for non necessities in order to incentivize their production.
Thought Slime's argument is so fucking stupid, and I know this from personal experience. About five years ago my hobby-driven passion for brewing beer lead me to get a job at the local brewery. It was fulfilling for a while, despite the pay being dogshit and the work being very physically and mentally demanding. Fast forward to today and I struggle justifying my career choice on a weekly basis even though it makes me enough money now and I'm more involved with the focus of my passion then I ever could have been with it just being a hobby. If not for capitalist economic forces I would be much happier doing what I used to and just make small amounts of beer for me and my close friends. The thousands of other people who enjoy the beer I help produce would be shit out of luck.
As a former pressure washer, I can assure you that the game is exponentially more fun than the reality. I may play the game, I will never pressure wash another fracking truck or grease trap as long as I live.
I think where his video should have went in a similar direction would be to recognize that the shitty jobs are subtly forced onto people who don’t have the resources to refuse. It’s not gunpoint but it’s definitely force and fear. Those born into vast resources can infinitely refuse tasks like military service or sewer maintenance without consequences.
I stopped paying attention to them when they insisted on fabricating sex cult allegations, despite being proven false. That well is poisoned. But it's good to keep an eye on obstacles and threats
I think I tend to assume the best in people and their arguments, but I always saw Thought Slime's video as being primarily a response to the idea held by many people that common people won't work if their life/livelihood isn't at stake. His point is that "people like to accomplish things, actually". Not that there are people who would happily clean sewers all day of their own free will, but if I had to spend two hours a week cleaning a sewer, I could not only do it, but also feel a sense of pride for a job well done. And plenty of other unpleasant jobs could become not just tolerable but satisfying if the work load was spread out across more people. People who could be available to do those jobs if they weren't busy slaving away just go make some rich guy even richer. And, there are many jobs that people currently do under threat of poverty that tons of people would quite happily do for free if their livelihoods were otherwise safe. As with his Nintendo example, a society without a looming threat of poverty would still have a lot of nice things because people actually like making nice things all on our own (games, toys, art, ,clothes, yummy food, etc.).
The charitable reading of Thought Slime's point is that humans actually enjoy working, and don't necessarily need to be threatened with starvation and homelessness to do productive things. It's a fine point, bruh. Can we please make 2023 the year of a united leftist front? Or are we just gonna keep semantics-ing ourselves? >:[
btw degrowth isn’t necessarily about making life expectancy worse; it just basically means we don’t put constant GDP growth as our main policy goal. it’s got it’s problems, but also the name just kind of sucks at describing what it is
I've read a degrowther arguing that they knew this up front but the point of "degrowth" as the name is a kind of Overton Window play. The idea is, "colonialism" used to be a positive thing. The UK, for instance, was quite proud of its colonies! It took a lot of pressure and protests and campaigning and rebellions and such to get us to the point where we all generally agree that "colonialism" is bad. And that process started with using the label and opposing it. Likewise, the idea behind "degrowth" is to make people rethink their positive assumptions about growth, so that we can begin to even CONSIDER not aligning our whole poltiical-economy towards making line go up. I....have mixed feelings about all that, but I'm passing all this in because "degrowth is a bad name" is a common take that I think assumes the people who invented the name aren't aware of how it sounds.
TS' view on economics is pretty much what I thought about it as a 13 year old. Difference is, I then went on to learn how much I didn't know about the subject. I hope that no one is watching people like TS and get all their economics views from there.
Knowledge is like the pursuit of peeling an onion, every time you think you r at the center layer, you Find you are wrong. Wisdom is knowing how little one knows, which becomes harder each time one elevates their purviews About the mediocrity…
This might blow some peoples’ minds, but playing American Truck simulator and driving across the entire state of California in 30-45 minutes when I don’t have to follow any traffic laws is way, way, way more fun than driving a real semi truck for 9 hours to go across the state of California where you have to follow traffic laws and deal with shit like fatigue and boredom. Just because people want to drive a truck with a steering wheel set up on their computer doesn’t mean they want to be a trucker.
I worked in manufacturing. If I never needed to worry about money, I could have worked that job for decades. I loved the job, the work, and the people. If I were still physically capable of it, I'd probably still be there today. I never planned to stay that long, because in order to make more than 40k a year in a job that I can stand, I need to go to college. If you believe that the only motivating force for people to do dangerous or important jobs is the risk of their life being destroyed by lack of income, you're not just wrong, you fundamentally believe in the concept of slavery.
As someone that started a veggie garden years ago because I loved Stardew Valley so much...I shouldn't have to say that raising actual plants, any kind but especially plants that will produce food, is SO MUCH HARDER than any game makes it seem. Planting at the right time, with the right soil, in the right pots/ground, in the right gardening zone for what you want, feeding at the right times, watering and not watering enough to make a plant thrive....so much work and knowledge. I ended up loving it (after two seasons of FAILURE in growing most of my veggies) but its not something that is at all comparable to games. Also, I have successfully grown dozens of plants of dozens of kinds on my own, I have NEVER grown enough to sustain myself. That's another thing games lie to you about. You have to have giant fields of successful plans to actually survive off of what you grow. And that's given that your crops have the perfect growing conditions that year.
Ever notice how people like this say people will do back-breaking work just because they enjoy it in games and yet the talking head has clearly never gotten their hands dirty or ripped a tendon lifting over 100 pounds dozens of times a day. They think they alone deserve to be an internet personality and everyone else better get into the fields or factories.
I fell for TS for awhile. I forget exactly where I fell off, but it started to feel less and less on point and more about the performance. Like one day I realized Nostalgia Critic was putting out 85% or more skits instead of review. I just stopped seeing what I was looking for and found the style did not supplant substance in both cases. I'm honest... Some More News started hitting that point for me. I will not tell anyone to shy away from them, I still fully support and will even say it's a respectable source of information, but some of the bits just started actually repelling me. So it goes. Whereas with Vaush, even in stunlocks, I'm still interested in what's being conveyed. I like an eclectic education.
And Marxian economics isn’t even really a rejection of mainstream economics, but an extension of it. They are both largely compatible. Mainstream economics centers around the goal of trying to sustain stable growth, while Marxian economics puts the economy in the broader context of politics (the political economy), historical development, class conflict, etc. If economics is just _fake_ then why critique capitalism in the first place? Why take a position on it at all?
Finally youtube recommended me a leftist who actually thought about it (and as such I agree with), before that it kept pushing me thoughtslime (appropriate name) and alike. Don't want to be conspiratorial, but if I was a giant corporation I would promote the worst leftist takes to the top to make the whole thing look dumb.
People enjoy eating without cooking. People enjoy killing in games, but get psychologically traumatized from doing so in real life. Game war is fun, but real war is hell. I appreciate that Thought Slime has a (quite hyperbolic) voice, but I also appreciate that your analysis brings a bit of a reality check.
There are many leftists, both IRL and online, that need to understand that being snide, condescending, and performatively offended at the most minor of rhetorical offenses... isn't a f*****g argument!!!
I will say this. While we do need to maintain the same level of industrial efficiency under socialism, that's not mutually exclusive with drastically reducing the sheer quantity of products we're inundated with under capitalism. There's so much shit that people really do not need that we are nonetheless sold, especially in the imperial core. Additionally, I think some areas of the imperial core should expect a relative reduction in total resources allocated to them because those areas already get excess.
@Vaush - Digging holes is definitely a mammal thing. Consider that our ancestors are the ones who were burrowed safely and well-prepared enough to survive the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. We are the best-equipped burrowing mammals the planet has ever seen.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.910 | 22 ก.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4TR3MVpOiw8/mqdefault.jpg)
I for one support the 5 autistic guys that would be maintaining the entire rail network for the country
With the help of the hordes of 5 year old choo-Choo enthusiasts.
The job retention rate for these workers isn’t great, though. After awhile they all switch over to being Pokémon trainers instead.
Honestly that's an area you'd have plenty of volunteers for. The "I REALLY like trains" crowd is definitely big enough if those people didn't have to work other jobs and could easily access the training to work on real trains.
Critical support for the 5 guys
*Country* ?
You underestimate us
They'd probably run it better than its being run in the US currently tbh
Making emulators and roms is so far removed from making actual consoles. You don't see fan collectives manufacturing NESs from scratch. Nobody is working the silicon and lithium mines as a fan project to provide circuit boards.
You know how it's fun to jump of a building in spiderman or gta because you come back to life in the game. Actually doing stuff is dangerous
True and this argument is insane but famiclones are a thing
@@2kjakuzi but they are for profit
@@2kjakuzi And how do they get made? The same way original Nintendos get made except by a smaller company. Not by hobbyists.
@@esbenm6544 I thought slime also said that the hobbyist do it better than Nintendo yeah because they're decades away from when the originals were made. There are people on TH-cam who make and sell portable game cubes for half a grand could you imagine how expensive a portable GameCube would have been in 2001? And even then the portable game cubes are them taking the original components and putting them into something smaller. The famicom Clones are reproductions that are cheaply made and are still not better than an NES almost after 40 years.
When writing their video, how did Thought Slime not see the hypocrisy of telling economists to log off, then without blinking, literally seconds later, using fucking video games as examples of why people would want to do difficult manual labor jobs for no compensation?
Like, I'm pretty sure I've literally heard conservatives say people will do jobs like retail for little to no pay because there are videogames about retail. It's aggrivating.
@@honest_126 The irony being is pretty much all the videogames about retail I can think of are about how much it sucks lol. (Night of the Consumers comes to mind)
Thoughtless slime
Tbh a better example of their point would have been ppl who volunteer for the internet archive or at animal shelters or libraries. Cleaning dirty kennels or shelving carts of books is a better example of ppl doing hard or tedious work by choice.
The power washing one got me cus I used to do it for a living. Fighting the pressure of the washer gun all day gives you tennis elbow and being wet all the time gives you trench foot. Not to mention inhaling all the chemicals that are being vaporized around you or climbing up a building while your gun tries to push you off. It doesn't really compare to sitting at a desk comfy and dry with no physical effort or danger 😂.
Reminds me of when I volunteered at the kennels. For free!
I pulled on gloves and scrubbed the kennels down with a mixture of chemicals that clung to me for months. I couldnt smell properly for weeks afterwards.
I was drenched in sweat and chemical disinfectant water got even into my hair.
I cleaned cat litter boxes. That is one _heck_ of a smell. Washed bowls, cleaned kennels and swept. Moved heavy stuff around. Cleaned up feces and vomit etc etc
I did it for free. But its _not_ pleasant.
Even when its something you want to do, games definitely do not ever hit the reality of *manual labour*
I feel like people forget what manual in manual labour means.
@@elvingearmasterirma7241 I know it was in the past but please take appropriate precautions when around chemicals! Use masks or other heavier equipment when surrounded by dangerous chemicals for an extended period of time. Please stay safe!
@@garretthunter2916 Oh def! I fcked up back then :'3
If I ever do it again Im gonna pull on full appropriate PPE
I really liked playing Battlefield...
BUT I DON'T WANT TO KILL PEOPLE IN REAL LIFE!
For fukks sake, what is wrong with that guy...
@@garretthunter2916 Seconded. PPE is important. If you're volunteering for an organization that deals with potentially toxic or hazardous chemicals they should be providing you proper PPE. If they do not, ask. If they still don't, leave.
For the last time, people... Social. Construct. Doesn't. Mean. Fake.
Social constructs are definitely real. The Justice system is a social construct, as well as the military. Both are very very serious to deal with.
Physics is a social construct, it’s still useful.
@@stevendorries no it isn’t. Physics is about as close to the opposite of a social construct that you can get.
@@bobvilla2508 the construction of the field of science we call physics is a social construct, the stuff that field studies isn’t.
Of course. People are motivated by and act upon the prescriptions of social constructs. Like how language isn't a thing of the material world, but is nonetheless very real.
The problem is that Thought Slime's argument only works at a small scale. I do think economists are overly cynical about human nature and don't give enough credence to the power of social community and belonging, instead thinking of humans as computers that will do the purely logical thing that we're preprogrammed to do in whatever economic system they're talking about. But humans are much more nuanced than that.
I don't find it a ridiculous notion that some people will do unpleasant work voluntarily, that happens all the time in real life with cleanup programs and the like. If I lived in a small, tight-knit community where I felt loved and valued, I could imagine people volunteering for sewer work and feeling pride in knowing that their work is necessary and valued among the community without the need for extra incentives. The problem is that once you start scaling up, and start atomizing/alienating your citizens, that's when it gets tough to get that feeling of community, that sense of being valued, and it becomes a "not my problem" issue.
This is why social friendly infrastructure is important... If you have several tight knit communities promoting people to voluntarily be conscientious of the needs of everyone, sverything that needs doing gets done. When you segregate people with cars, and no nice walkable public spaces, and 24/7 propaganda about rugged individualism and fearing your neighbors, of course we can't have nice things... But these are structural, not human nature. That alienation is not inevitable.
Imo the best way of handling the issue of "who does the dirty jobs under a fairer society " is to just make the dirty jobs have high reward potential. Almost no one WANTS to maintain septic tanks or sort recycling at a plant or shovel crap for a living, few will do it voluntarily even by societal need. If we collectively acknowledge these types of jobs are vital and society will crumble without it being done well and promptly, just reward the fuck out of the ppl who do it
Not even at a small scale does it work. Economists overall are in the right here, there are jobs that are so bad there has to be a strong incentive to do them. Sewage work for one I can’t imagine many people wanting to line up.
You have to remember a lot of the work being done is because people have to do it not because they want to. Just go to any fast food restaurant, the staff there aren’t thrilled but it pays bills.
I think social community is a naive way to look at human nature. Economists aren’t cynical you’re just naive about human nature.
@@Darkloid21 is "it needs to be done for the betterment of our community" not incentive enough? If there was no profit motive that keeps down the amount of people for an unpleasant job and lowers resources put into the task (better tools, more automation), would the task not become easier as more people band together to do it and use advanced technology to make it even better?
Do people dislike working at macdonalds because it's a food industry, or because it's set up in a way that is exploitative and soul-crushing? I've worked in a restaurant where i enjoyed every moment, and I've done "unpleasant" tasks like street cleanings and clearing up waterways. There is satisfaction to be found in doing things that bring people comfort and service your community, and they are much better done when there are other people doing them with you.
@@parrot998 I feel like there's something far more lingering of an issue (I will mention it if needed) rather then just car centric infrastructure. While I don't disagree that having the need to be driving to Walmarts and schools , PARKS even all the time creates isolation, there is an incentive even in those environments to try and socialize, which I assume was the case back then. Now it's just gone.
"people play a game where they pretend to drive a big machine, so they'd be willing to take the risks of actually driving a big machine for free" is a heck of a take.
Mildred clearly haven't seen the episode on trucks from Last Week Tonight
I liked playing street fighter. Clearly this means I want to attempt to fist fight terrorists.
Hmm, this Call of Duty do be kinda fun, maybe even more fun would be in a battlefield where bullets are flying everywhere and either my legs are getting blown off or I'm seeing that happen to other people. All while the CEO of Northrop Grumman gets even richer. That would be a blast.
@@calemr tbf if it means i get to look like chun-li
@@salanderfication As someone who used to play Poison... You make a compelling argument.
I was always a leftist and itslalways so refreshing when Vaush calls out dumb oversimplified near-to-conspiracy-tales takes by other leftists. I was annoyed by these dumb takes offline my whole adult life.
You're an adult and a Vaush fan? Jesus Christ that's sad
I'm also a leftist and an adult and its fucking stupid to see leftists calling out and harming other leftists movements and personalities. We shouldn't be publicly fighting each other, instead we should be supporting each other and fighting the actual enemies we all have. Slime and Vaush are ultimately fighting the same enemy, using different methods.
@@chadalpha7983 who asked you?
@@chadalpha7983 You're an adult and you're watching TH-cam? Jesus Christ that's sad.
@@chadalpha7983 Who cares? It’s not like most adults are serious people anyway.
That moment when you think you figured something out that millions of people who dedicated their entire lifes studying this shit couldn't understand.
Yep. Antiintellectual.
The most annoying types of people imo.
And when they think they’ve figured something out did they ever even make an active effort to parse the current evidence or different takes and weight them objectively?
Never. Grown ass adults somehow think they can just solve the worlds problems in their minds without doing anything even remotely work.
It’s like the people who “prove Einstein wrong” and then harass physicists to no end.
Let’s not forget the bias associated with lifetime devotions and self protectionism.
Though I agree we have no choice to defer to the experts, as someone mislead in the past it gets harder to trust
As you get older and have been betrayed by those posing as expertise,.😊
I'd like to formally apologize to anyone who saw my cringe as hell comment. It would appear I somehow butt dialed but instead of dialing I replied to a comment with "L😊😊😊"
It is painful how often lefties cede the entire concept of economics to the right when we have the objectively better, freer, more efficient economic theories on our side every single time.
*doubt*
But yeah, it is frustrating and funny just how easily so many leftists completely disregard basic economics entirely. Especially considering that a large chunk of all leftists governments that have existed and collapsed throughout history did so due to economic mismanagement.
Trotsky (him off all people!) realized this back in the day, which is why he wanted to hire former czarist economists to manage the state economy. This was one of the reasons why he eventually became isolated, making it easier for Stalin to take over.
Name one time communism didn’t fail.
I can kind of see why it happens - you have "economist" talking heads on TV who say everythings fine because line going up, but that's not an excuse to write off an entire field.
Doubt all you want guys but it's true.
One example is Vaush's Finland study (and other UBI related studies). Lefty economic discourse works more often on the basis that people don't need to actually be threatened with death to work. It's neoliberal economics that does that.
Another example from my own personal research: the way banks loan money was recently empirically proved to be what's called "chartalism" (making money out of thun air) not rhe more right wing preferred idea of "fractional reserve" lending. Because the implications are more left wing: bank lending is inherently risky to the economy and must therefore be heavily regulated or simply nationalised.
Then there's, like, 95% of UnlearningEconomics' channel where he discusses things like:
1) how the minimum wage can be up to 80% of the median wage, which is way higher than most places;
2) how wprker co-ops aren't perfect but are probably a very viable alternative to LLCs , at the very least in most areas of business;
3) how the gender wage gap exists, even if why it exists and how it works is a little more complicated...and the policies that would eliminate it;
4) AND MORE!!!
As Stephen Colbert said years ago, reality has a left wing bias. Which is why people like TS infuriate me: they undermine our greatest argument - empirical reality - in favour of vibes and wishful thinking.
@@justsomeguy6336 your mom
Thought slime managed to full circle the meme about a parent complaining that their kid won't mow the lawn but loves lawn mowing simulator or something like that.
The argument that getting a UBI every month, thats less than half of just my mortgage alone, would somehow make it so i never show up to work again always makes me laugh
It would cause inflation though and just be absorbed into other costs. You can’t beat the system by giving everybody some money
I have concerns that a universal UBI can't exist absent price controls. Without controls on prices, what is to stop corporations and landlords from simply raising prices to capture this new slack. They couldn't do this in the limited test programs done so far because the recipient pool is far more narrow than the general population. A UBI alone is flawed policy and would need to be paired with much more intrusive economic regulation.
Which, as AI and automation increases, is going to be necessary frankly. Just look at the way hedgefunds are manipulating rents and house prices to stratospheric levels to increase profits.
@@fifiadannot neccisarily. Due to automated systems value can be created with significantly less human input.
What took 50 people 100 hours to do can now be done in one evening by two men with a harvester and grain truck.
Thus this excess value generated can be appropriated to others in the form of UBI.
This is of course a small example.
The real thing that often pumps up inflation is actually large companies who inflate their stock values beyond a reasonable amount with stock buy backs and the like. Nothing genuinely new has been generated but now there is "more" money in the economy even though no new goods or services have actually been created.
One example was the roaring twenties into the great depression. The inflation of stock prices pushed so much money into the economy that when the stock prices crashed to correct for that over inflation of value deflation struck the hardest it ever has.
@@fifiadan yet other countries have done it and it works exactly how it’s meant to
@@tyeklund7221 other countries give Pennies for ubi, have you looked into that?
As a farmer, the gaming analogy is extremely funny. According to Thought Slime, since ppl like playing Farming Simulator there are hordes of people who wants to be farmers. Only in game, every dirty, back breaking and dangerous part of the job is magically gone, jobs take 100x less time than in reality, there's no risk that a draught/flood/storm destroys all your crops, your cattle don't get sick or break out of the pasture exactly at the same time that you're crunching to harvest the barley before a rainstorm. It's all fun and laughs driving a cool pixel tractor for 10 minutes to cultivate a field, it's another thing entirely to drive up and down a field for 12 hours straight and when you go home you've covered 1/3 of the field and you have 50 more fields to get to.
Farming is not a job. Its a life tbh
Farming becomes your life.
Right? Anyone who believes this to be true obviously doesn't understand even a minut portion of the dedication and work it takes to keep a farm functioning much less productive.
Hey bud, thanks for being a farmer. I might have never eaten your food but I know how important you amd what you do is.
Hope you're finding ways to improve the health of the land and make your crops more resiliant with climate change fucking so much over.
You better be getting subsidies. If Michelle Bachman can get them for her farm while she tried to destroy welfare for the working class, then you deserve them too!
Games are so insane, you could probably make an ultra realistic hardcore Farming Sim with these parameters and it’d sell.
You put things pretty well as usual mate! I'm not sure why it's necessary to make such a straw man case for leftist economics. Obviously, you can question the profit motive, especially with modern shareholder value capitalism. You can also point out that people have other motivations for work than money. But to generalise from those insights into "we don't need to do or think about economics at all, everyone will do what they feel like and it will match with society's needs" is beyond laughable. Ironically, it's almost like the Panglossian free market arguments that everything will be produced that needs to be produced, just without the market part.
The tweet got a lot more attention than I intended. Most of the people in my mentions were in agreement, unfortunately it made its way to right wing twitter so you got the usual misgendering and other unpleasantness, but once it hit the 'anarchists' I felt like I was taking crazy pills. People were doing some serious motte and baileys from the more extreme version to the more respectable version and as you pointed out, the irony was used to hide the fact that the points made were completely incoherent. There is nothing salvagable in that monologue that could not have been said better and STILL with humour.
Anyway, my next video this month is on free stuff and will speak directly to all your points about UBI. There is a lot of evidence it has no effect on work incentives. But it's a much smaller and more specific policy than throwing out the whole economy and starting from...no ideas at all? Much love xoxo
A true universal UBI is a bad policy, Job Guarantee with UBI for anyone who cant work is better i think.
A true UBI is no cycle policy which is bad.
Love your channel guy. 👍
@@regretroulette1463 thank you!
The chad Unlearning Economics at it again ❤
@@fachriranu1041 job guarentee's tend to just lead to people being employed in positions they really don't need to be and end up a drain on whatever firm they're working at
"I'm not scared of WW3, I play Fallout." -Thoughtslime, probably
I bet he played fallout 3 exclusively too. Never the classics or New Vegas.
Today I shot down one aircraft in WarThunder. Clearly I am A class soldier material!
@@sataniccabal4276 womp womp
@@sataniccabal4276 99% of people that like fallout never played the originals
@@sataniccabal4276 Because uniquely the classics and FNV will prepare you for real things like being kidnapped by brain robots and fighting psychic mutants
ThoughtSlime's video legit feels like an op. If people think this is what leftists believe, there will be no leftists.
This is what happens when you only befriend people who agree with you: reality-independent radicalization.
This is why I really like Vaush's videos on shitty leftists.
I'm really sick of these people who just make right wing propaganda.
This is what a lot of anarchists believe
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan you do know, that vaush is also a literal anarchist, too, right? ...
@@Dust514rocks
Not just "an Anarchist" according to Vaush he is the only real one
It's easier to pirate and modify a console than develop it from scratch, which is a huge flaw in Thought Slime's reasoning.
Another aspect I've already seen mentioned is sure, some people like to tinker and solder circuitboards and chips together, but who works the factories producing them? And who's going into the mines to extract the raw materials needed to produce them? I still like Mildred in some capacity, and I don't think they're a terrible person, but a lot their recent takes have been complete brain worms.
I think the word you're looking for is "more efficient"
His premise is absurd. No one alive could manufacture a SEGA Genesis from scratch, from gathering the raw materials to generating the plastic to sourcing the code. It's not just physically impossible, but mentally as well. It's not a bloody lego kit, no one dreams of making plastic.
@@jakebarker7419 I mean it's not impossible per se but it's so incredibly impractical that it might as well be impossible. The journey required for someone to be capable of such a feat is absurd to expect of anyone.
Do you really NEED to develop consoles from scratch though?
I feel like most new gens nowadays just offer hardware upgrades (better graphics etc), and that would easily be doable with the same skillset as modification.
And for the real innovative type stuff (something akin to motion sensor games - obviously we already have those, but if I could come up with real gaming innovation, I'd be rich), you'd definitely find people who'd be into that.
Making more of the same is mostly something manufacturers / factory workers will do, and I'm pretty sure you'll find people doing stuff like this, at least as a sort of "default boring labor" people can do before they actually find their passion.
Mildred has never attempted to express this argument in real life to anyone who wasn't already primed to agree with everything they said. If they did, they'd have realised how unbelievably stupid they sound trying to articulate it.
Yes, or they wrote off everyone who disagreed as a being a liberal shill
Don't entertain his fake name and pronouns.
@@donovanlocust1106 your motives for disliking thought slime are not appreciated here
They probably know how stupid it is, and are at bare minimum smart enough not to express it to just anyone.
Pretty wild thoughless is diving head first into anti-intellectualism publicly now though lol
@SHITFACE the clown oh no , my motives are justified. They claimed Xanderhal had a sex cult, and well, he never did. ThoughtSlime is well slimy.
Thought Slime's logic: All Harvest Moon players will be perfectly willing to get up at very early hours in the morning to work long days tending to massive crop fields and cleaning up piss and shit from live stock.
People won't need to clean up piss and shit from livestock because we'd be vegan in a consent based society
@@spacetrace5477 Consent? From who?? 🤨🤨🤨
@@spacetrace5477 What about plants? I doubt they consent to being grown and eaten by us.
@@asherheart3574 uh .. I guess the animals? Lol. Sorry but a "consent based society" to the point where we're vegan is a delusional pipe dream. A crack pipe that is.
I swear it’s the new meme-d version of the Soviets Agriculture takes, oh put a bunch of seeds in the hole they will be comrades 🤦🏻♀️
Thought slime is the kind of friend you don’t invite out anymore because they had a melt down when someone said “I have a crazy story”
i have a nanners story guys
@@TheCaptainblaubeere CANCELED!!!
Why, cuz they think “crazy” is offensive?
@@CampingforCool41they made a 20 minute self aggrandizing apology video for saying nanners.
@@TheCaptainblaubeere DISGUSTING 😡😤
Their gaming take is hilarious. Anyone who's ever been near a farm knows it's not just fun and games. It can be great, baby animals are cute, and seeing the fruits of your labor is very satisfying. However. I know for a fact Mildred has never shoveled manure in the middle of winter. I know they've never had to hand-mow grass with a scythe in the midday sun or herd cattle from the woods after they've escaped. It's grueling work, and I've managed to gather that from the few weekends I spent helping out.
People do gardening and small-scale agricultural activities like sheep herding and beekeeping irl when it makes little economic sense, so it's perhaps not the best counterexample, but surely a lot of other necesary tasks would never get done. In small communities throughout history people did their part often without formal sanctions because otherwise they would become deeply disliked, but that wouldn't work in a modern urban setting.
@@jonweman6128 That’s not true. It was you either help out or you starve. Again you’re too naive about how people really are.
@@Darkloid21 if you didn't help out with communal tasks like cleaning ditches in a village did you really STARVE? You'd still have your own fields and so on. You might starve if you had some misfortune while someone who was known to be more solidaric might get help in that situation.
@@jonweman6128 The point is there was always something you didn't get but my point is you're naive about human nature.
@@Darkloid21 What are you talking about?
Mildo's condescending response to Unlearning Economics on Twitter, which amounted to "pfft wow, you didn't realise I was joking? What an idiot" is just the cherry on top - if the "joke" wasn't expressing a genuine belief at its core, what was the point of it at all? A completely un-serious person, and the fact they're maybe the most prominent anarchist youtuber is honestly perfect.
It's like showing a block of lumpy marble and saying here's my sculpture,, and when you get criticized for it being garbage, you say "oh that part isn't part of the sculpture, the sculpture is under that"
It's their version of the conservative "It's just satire bro!" they do everytime there's a microgram of pushback
I'm still subbed to them, because they were the first "left-tube" channel I ever discovered and I'm honestly still thankful for that, but I haven't actively watched a vid in quite a while, a lot of them left me disappointed because they feel like your typical liberal bs but with the aesthetics of more radical views.
Literally the "pretending to be retarded" guy from the meme
Ummm entertainment?
This whole situation is really quite nanners
It’s honestly terrifying to imagine how spineless you’d have to be to apologise for saying ‘nanners’ lmao. I actually think I’d LowTierGod myself before I ended up like that lmaooooo
@@TurtleChad1 linus tech tips moment
Hello
Wow that's pretty ableist of you, I'm honestly devastated
how dare you non tactically use the N word
It's only just occurring to me now but the decay of leftist thought online is a great example of important work that isn't getting done due to lack of incentives, with the exception of a tiny club of weird hobbyists.
Are you proposing an industry of professional revolutionaries?
"Accomplishing things feels good!"
Please explain that to my ADHD brain, because it doesn't seem to understand that. At all. I don't get the good feels from accomplishing things in a traditional way. I get the good feels from abandoning one project to start on another one which will also not be finished.
Can confirm
Fucking same, my brain doesn’t seem to get a rush of euphoria when I complete something, it’s more just a sense of I finally got this out of the way.
feel that so hard. Finishing something is tedious but there's no dopamine rush stronger than bailing on an unwanted obligation for me
As someone with ADD, my brain gets the good feels from finishing a project, but it's still very hard to make myself _do_ that because my brain wants to move onto the next project which will also never be finished _anyway._ The genuine sense of accomplishment is, for me, very real… but _getting_ there, instead of just starting the next thing, is painfully difficult.
Plus, I have so much guilt over all the stories I've abandoned. The tabletop RPG campaigns I've let die or never started, the characters I came up with or even started writing whose stories were never told… every one of them feels like a murder I committed.
@@FlameUser64 EXACTLY. Trying to explain to people who don't have the problem is so difficult, because they think it's laziness. And I'm over here having my brain convince me that spending 700 dollars a month on COBRA for three months for insurance is easier than going to the marketplace, because my brain is that opposed to doing that thing. I don't want to spend that much money. I can't start my own business as an artist. I have too much anxiety that I'm going to get legally prosecuted if I utilize any aspect of someone else's work, and I don't trust myself to actually finish any commissions I get. I can be more hopeful, but I also know myself enough to know that if I'm not honest about how I function, I'll just feel guilty and terrible when things don't actually get done. I do things too thoroughly, but I burn out before they are completed. I go to my job, I don't like my job, but my meds wear off by the time I get home, so I end up not actually bringing myself to really apply for other jobs. If I have a job that schedules later in the day, it ruins things, because I won't take my meds until right before I leave for work, because I can't function productively at work without them, but it also means that everything that I tell myself at bed the night before that I will get done in the morning doesn't actually happen. So, dishes stack up. Art gets pushed off. Taxes don't get done. People are like, "Well, build a portfolio yourself!" And I can try, but that would require finished projects. I didn't realize until I was expected to function on my own the sheer scale of things that I SHOULD be able to do that just end up being overwhelming due to ADHD and OCD. And these are all problems I have while I am actively prescribed and taking Adderall.
Thought Slime: "Violent video games don't cause mass shootings."
Also Thought Slime: "You play Powerwash Simulator? I guess that means you're cool with spraying down the sewers for free."
His argument is worse, because it's more lots of people play powerwash simulator so some of them would want to do it in real life.
Honestly this is where the currency free economics of Star Trek fall apart for me. Like how does the Federation do the dirty deeds that need to get done just to keep civil infrastructure running?
@@OsirisLord You have to do your job or else they take your living quarters and such away. Just like if you lose your job in capitalism. Just goes to show, capitalism is lawful evil and communism is chaotic evil.
@@OsirisLord this is so dumb. i wonder if the incredibly technologically advanced federation have invented robotics... who knows.
@@Jomchen I mean yes there's Data. But also Data is a full sentient machine and considered a person with full legal rights.
Because Vaush explicitly mentioned firefighters: in many countries all over the world the vast majority of firefighters are unpaid volunteers.
Honestly, i think it’s probably better to have at least a paid core of professionals-guys and gals who are paid to hang out in the station with the equipment in case Something Happens.
Now, maybe there are studies that prove my instinct wrong, but that’s my instinct.
@@GigasGMX Well, your instinct is wrong and you have capitalism brain rot. If people do a task because they are passionate about it they will do a much better job than someone that just gets payed to do it. And lots of people happen to be passionate about being fire fighters, imagine that. Hanging out in the station with the equipment in case something happens is literally what they signed up to do. The only reason to have paid fire fighters is when you don't have enough volunteers, like in big cities.
John Oliver's farming episode could not have come out at a better time.
I can personally attest that simplistic anti-intellectual takes are rampant in real life and can stop someone being a leftist for a long time. I didn't like Bernie for years, for example, because nearly everyone I personally knew who was into Bernie (and talked about it) talked like this.
Well unironically I would spend my days testing water conditions in America’s rivers, that sounds like a banger ass job
2:10
Translated into English this means “I know nothing about economics but I want to seem virtuous instead of ignorant while I spew my nonsense”
Common Thoughtslime L
3:32
Nintendo didn't "stop making Nintendos", they made shinier, more powerful Nintendos.
Is ThoughtSlime actually living in an alternate reality where Nintendo just stopped making shit after the NES?
I work at a tech company on smartphone driver software and I cannot even start to describe how totally batshit the idea of 100% hobbyist consumer electronics is. It may seem plausible because there's now a decently large market for hobbyist products, but putting together off the shelf components and writing some code is the easy part. Developing and fabricating a modern phone processor from scratch is extremely far outside of the realm of what hobbyists can do. The most advanced EUV photolithography machines cost literally billions of dollars each, and there's also IC packaging machines, pick and place robots, reflow ovens, the entire ultrapure silicon supply chain...
I don't trust anyone who willingly names themselves Mildred.
Definitely made in a lab
He is obviously ridiculing trans people by naming himself Mildred.
Mildred is a cool name
I know right? I think my grandmother would have been made fun of for having an old fashioned, out of favor name if she had been named Mildred.
@@melissa9186 Yep.
ThoughtSlime looked at the YT shorts guy who mows lawns for fun and for free, and said: "wow we can just make the entire economy work on people like this!"
That's called having a slave class, and it's been tried before.
When he used the argument that people will always be willing to do menial work because there are people that play videogames based on such work, I feel really bad for him. It is pretty embarrassing and pathetic
I think that there's a bit of truth to the idea that most of us wouldn't feel comfortable being idle for too long. And rather than say "Economics is a lie.", I think it's more accurate to say "Neoclassical Economics is built on a couple of false premises.": Humans are more often social creatures rather than individualists, and rather than seeking to self-maximize, we usually just compete, or at least try not to feel inferior to our peers. And I think non-military options for national service could be a way to get folks to do those unpleasant but necessary jobs. At least until AI and Robots can take over the unskilled labor market.
The funniest part is economics is more pro-socialist then capitalist. capitalism is constantly being shown as ineffective and impossible to graph without adding a huge number a factors. Each of which are economist admitting the real world doesn't align with capitalist thought.
Where is this? And what do you mean by socialism? Capitalism has proven beyond doubt to be the most efficient way of disturbing resources.
Is that why China became the second most powerful economy only after they switched to a market economy? /s Socialism is not supposed to be effective (and it isn't), it's supposed to be just.
worker co ops literally survive and thrive in the current economy better than capitalistic firms
@@jlp6864 this isn’t evidence of socialism working , it’s evidence of the flexibility of capitalism , that it can allow for different methods of gaining capitol . Socialism is literally what thought slimes positions are
@@brutuslugo3969 idk how people can talk so confident about things they know nothing about, really strange... its absolutely evidence that having one or a few bosses who decide everything a company does is not reliable and collective ownership is a more stable way of organizing a company (collective ownership of the means of production is socialism btw)
I don't know if Unlearning Economics is planning on making a video responding to TS but I sure hope he does! When the cringe is coming from inside the house someone's gotta address and UE has a solid track record when it comes to that, so to speak.
30 hr work week would be baller tbh
I work a 28 hour week and its bliss.
Studies have shown that 4 hours per day is more productive in basically every job.
There’s some weird exceptions (most notably, nursing is safest with just a few Really Long shifts per week, since most nursing mistakes happen as a result of shift changes), but that’s the overall rule.
One day work week.
The natives where I live used to work about 12 hours per week before the Spanish arrived and ruined everything.
That would be fuckin fire
thought slime's whole fucking argument fall apart when you know that like +50% of all people, want to be influencers or famous people as their job
Look, this was addressed all the way back in Upton Sinclair's *_The Jungle,_* where it was explained that a Socialist society would, of course, have different salaries for different jobs, "or we would have a million rural mail carriers and no coal miners".
That line was especially memorable to me because at the time, I was married to a rural mail carrier who was frequently enthusing about the delights of her job.
As long as can remember I’ve always thought the 💩iest jobs should pay the most money. An actor for example isn’t only acting for the money but they, usually, love their job.
Wait this is the same argument used against the writers' strike! "They'll realize how much they like working and go back to work"
The neat thing about economics is that most economic theory actually points very clearly towards social democracy and a strong welfare state with policies like UBI and universal healthcare as the best system for fostering a strong economy. Politicians just ignore all of that, because despite the rhetoric their goal isn't actually the strongest possible economy, it's propping up the sectors of industry that they're directly benefiting from via donor money or actual direct investments of their own. If we actually let economists decide our economic policies the left would get a massive wave of Ws overnight.
…not sure that’s true in the US. Last I checked, the economic scene around here was still dominated by assholes from Chicago.
Or alternatively worker cooperatives like has been seen in Spain.
@@gljames24 Or in much or rural America
Me and several thousand of my boys going off to mine sulfur for fun
Nintendo's was likely the worst example thought slim could have chosen. Like the amount of small parts required to make the Nintendo which come from several different specialized factories would cease. Who TF would find making the smallest little rubber washer for a Nintendo? Like really?
Yeah and even if all that was somehow magically getting done, who is shipping the parts to where they need to go so someone can actually assemble them? And for what reason would someone mass produce this stuff?
@queerdo emulators run on computers which have the exact same issues. One factory makes computer chips that then ships it to another factory which makes GPUs and CPUs with these chips. These chips are also used to make vehicles, home appliances, phones, etc. They're a long lengthy supply chains that would be extremely hard to uphold without some sort of profit incentive.
@@taragnor I can think of several people who would like to drive trains all the time
@@charliekahn4205 Great. Can you think of several people that would like to load cargo onto trains all the time too? What about shipping it from the train to the factory for assembly? To keep our economy running we need a ridiculous amount of reliable infrastructure.
@@taragnor Just pull an Otis Pettee and put the factory on the train tracks
Shit takes like Slime's are EXACTLY why I went for an Econ degree, to make sure any claims I made had a stable foundation
virgin "go to uni to get a good job" vs chad "go to uni so i can win more arguments"
@@toniokettner4821 Sorry, that's "went for an econ degree as part of my electives to finish out my Math/Business degree"
The fact that all of Mildred's points referred to video games nearly gave me a lethal overdose of cringe.
If we're gonna use gamer behavior as a social reference, i'll put it this way;
You don't need life or death to get people to do insane hours of monotonous video game grinding, you just need to offer them a shiny ring, a rare, an upgrade, etc. People love grinding to have nice things even without the threat of starvation
Just tell them how prosperous things will be if they keep working for the good of the community, and eventually your words will be correct.
You know what's funny? It's that Thought Slime has 3 videos on his channel describing the crummy/degrading jobs he had before TH-cam. Granted, the videos do contain a caveat that these jobs would be bearable - perhaps even enjoyable - if the workers were given more control and automony over their workplace. But by *his own admission,* he kinda concedes that there are many jobs that nobody really wants to do, like working at Tim Horton's or a shitty pizza place at a gas station.
ya know why people dont want that? because or the system we live under. i would definitely be fine serving people food and cleaning tables, if i did it for the good of the people who want the food and not for the profits of the corporations. you wouldnt be locked into one activity for the rest of your life under risk of homelessness and starvation like you do now, you could just do what needs to be done. there are people who enjoy dirty jobs, people who like building things, people who like destroying things, why do people fall into the idea of thinking no one would do anything if it werent for the capitalist threat of death by starvation. its the same line of thinking as capitalists, acting like humans just couldnt possibly do anything on their without someone controling and dictating every decision.
Mildred literally explains how workers would enjoy their work if they had more control over it, and that's why he thinks that his jobs sucked. I know Thought Slime make a bad video, but your critique of it is even worse lmao
Living in college dorms, and then later in military barracks. I can tell you right now that nobody is gonna clean a bathroom, much less sewers, unless they get hounded on by a superior or get money.
In all fairness, those are particular cultural spaces. I've been in places where toilets get cleaned without pay or rank. Thing is, we've pretty much all grown up without community responsibility being a strong social value.
@@evelyncarr6421 People naturally want to help and contribute out of social need, empathy. This is how humans lived naturally thousands of years in tribes. Also most things now that are not automated can be automated.
@@Crazywaffle5150 This is not true. There is an incredibly strong cultural element to the levels of altruism in a society/group.
@@evelyncarr6421 Yes, that culture was removed due to capitalism.
People enjoy horror movies/games. Clearly they want to be chased in a cornfield by a psychopath with a chainsaw.
Arresting people is not social pressure, it is violent compulsion.
I think that was a loose use of language from Vaush. He clearly does see the two as different because the very next sentence is a pivot from arrest into "social pressure". He was lumping the state threat of arrest in with other forms of actual social pressure, because what he meant was "non-financial incentives" without being technical about his phrasing.
It's both, because that's semantics.
@David Cauley I didn't say it, but there's that too. At a certain point, whether or not a promise of negative consequences is social pressure or violent compulsion becomes a distinction without a difference, and whether or not it was selected by the state or by a vigilante group of socially conscious community members...likewise.
This is where I find twitter-anarchists will retreat into semantics games: "do you believe that people will have to be coerced/incentivised into doing things they don't want to do to maintain society?"
They absolutely refuse to answer the question, they will retreat into definitions and semantics, and they will make you the bad guy for trying to get them to answer the question because they know that either the answer is "no" (which sounds naive and, even if it isn't, requires a lot of empirical evidence) or "yes" (in which case we need to discuss incentive structures, which twitter-anarchists, but notnavtual thoughtful anarchists, reject in principle).
I don't know if that's the mindset behind OP's post - it could also be just misinterpreting Vaush's loose language - but I have a feeling because this tendency to jump on even the smallest misuse of language is a key tactic int he semantic dodging they twitter-anarchists will do.
But hey, I could be wrong! It's why I chose the more charitable interpretation of their disagreement.
@@ProfDCoy totally with you, it bakes my mind how few people are actually aware of when they are making an argumental logic that is only possible within the semantic frame they set, rather than finding the most accurate semantics for the PRAGMATIC/SYSTEMIC variables. I wish more folks would learn the basics of Korzybski's General Semantics ("The Map is not the Territory"), And Bourland's simplification of GS called E-Prime. If everyone were educated in that, and logical fallacies, I suspect 90% of ideological arguments wouldn't occur, because most ideological arguments are abtract NOISE, not pragmatic signal.
@@ProfDCoy the lib right does this all the time... You're not "forced" to do x, y, or z, but there definitions of property rights mean ultimately you will be murdered if you don't.
quite nanners indeed
I stopped watching thought slime after their Trans dating episode that said if you aren't attracted to transwomen, regardless of anything else, you are transphopic. It played lime someone watched Contrapoints' are traps gay video, then received a massive head injury and tried to recreate it.
As a trans woman, what the hell? I have not seen that TS video, that's an insane take.
I worked in fast food. Absolutely hated it. It set off my depression and anxiety badly. It was always so hot, and fast paced. It caused me a lot of physical pain.
But because I used to play the Papa Louie games, I obviously have a passion for it and wish to go back. 🙄
And if you were a part owner of that restaurant, had a say in the menu, could dismiss unruly customers at a whim, and do generally everything you ever wanted to do at that job that your boss wouldn't allow you to because it would "look unprofessional", then you wouldn't have hated it nearly as much.
@@WillyShankspeare Nah, restaurant owners also tend to not like the fast-paced environment and all-consuming stress.
@@charliekahn4205 And restaurants are luckily an incredibly unnecessary aspect of society.
On one hand, yes Vaush, every single job has some kind of die hard hobbyist or general enthusiast, except maybe retail, I mean I'd get into that desert construction job you used as an example. That being said, it's likely some jobs would have serious worker shortage issues, and it's likely that most jobs would be done less efficiently, it would be insane to think otherwise
Yeah that's true. As you say, the issue is that for every one person that would love to spend the rest of their lives cleaning, there are like 10,000 cleaning jobs that society needs to function.
while I do think this is broadly true, I also think that people would still work with ubi just for the sake of getting money. Entry level jobs are accessible and would be probably the default jobs people would take because going through schooling or certification is now less valuable. People will still want those high level jobs too, especially with the resources to pursue them without starving, but if all I want is to buy 5 AAA games a week or order delivery for every meal, cleaning toilets would be acceptable. Basically, everyone would be put in the position of teenagers who live with their parents--many of them work to get things they want, even if they don't need it.
Retail definitely has these people, they are just special needs. I had a coworker who said that he had always wanted to work for the specific company we were at, that was the extent of his ambition. While people like him are definitely very valuable, you can't run an organization purely off of people like that, you're gonna need some miserable people.
Comparing sitting by a computer with a physical job ...
This is giving me demon mama back yard pharmacy flashbacks
People don't feel a passion for cleaning sewers. They feel passion for doing something valued and needed in their community. The problem is how our society separates and isolates us so that that sense of community is gone.
This is the core point of the video, and that seemed obvious to me, the rest was clearly entertainment
@@doublethick5752I agree with your upper post, but you cannot convince me that Mildred is engaging in responsible messaging with the way they address economics here. The problem is Mildred’s messaging, not leftist theory or ideas.
I literally always have to specify what politics i like without using “socialism” or whatever because i would never in a million years be associated with people like mildred
That's basically part of becoming a fully matured socialist, being one without ever mentioning it because at this point the term clarifies nothing and obfuscates everything.
Well honestly his position is the most accurate and faithful representation of socialism. Anything less just isn’t socialism . Vaush might say he’s a socialist but his positions are more in line with the system we have in the US . Just with more safety nets
@@brutuslugo3969 bitch who the fuck asked?
@@brutuslugo3969 No its not. Socialism literally just means that labour is owned by the worker. So a job at a worker cooperative and state owned business are both Socialist in different ways. Look up Mutualism or Syndicalism.
@@gljames24 a country can be capitalist and have its companies all be worker coops… workers owning the means of production is a slogan , there’s more to socialism than that …
By the logic of the Power Wash Simulator argument, anyone who likes Portal would enjoy being a test subject at Aperture Science labs, anyone who likes Who's Your Daddy would enjoy being a suicidal baby, and anyone who likes Sonic would enjoy being a robot-fighting blue hedgehog.
I would enjoy being a robot fighting hedgehog though
@@theoriginalrandomman Oh me too, just not a blue one. If I could be red or green, I'd be 100% down.
@@AnEndlessCold black and red
with guns
I also would like to be a blue hedgehog with super sonic speed capable of ripping through metal with ease.
In the atelier series you use alchemy to make items and fulfill the requests of people. You go out into nature, gather materials, buy them and combine them to make things like food, cloths, bombs and yellow fire swords. While alchemy may not be real the means to create things people need like food and cloths is. I wouldn't want to in real life because of all the real world worrying about money and paying bills. I'd potentially like working as a smithy if it didn't take up the entire day. Not the process of smithing it self but the required work hours.
Resident Evil is nice. I'd rather not have to fight parasite monsters IRL, though.
We simply don’t live in a world where we can have anything beyond homesteading villages of 500 people if markets don’t exist.
Markets are not bad. It is not a bad thing to have people pay for non necessities in order to incentivize their production.
Maybe village-level mercantilism isn't that bad an idea
Thought Slime's argument is so fucking stupid, and I know this from personal experience. About five years ago my hobby-driven passion for brewing beer lead me to get a job at the local brewery. It was fulfilling for a while, despite the pay being dogshit and the work being very physically and mentally demanding. Fast forward to today and I struggle justifying my career choice on a weekly basis even though it makes me enough money now and I'm more involved with the focus of my passion then I ever could have been with it just being a hobby. If not for capitalist economic forces I would be much happier doing what I used to and just make small amounts of beer for me and my close friends. The thousands of other people who enjoy the beer I help produce would be shit out of luck.
I had a right wing history professor who also didn’t believe economics is a legitimate field. Dude was a weird guy
As someone familiar with volunteer work. I can tell this guy hasn't seen the outside in a while. This is like seeking tactical advice from a wehraboo.
As a former pressure washer, I can assure you that the game is exponentially more fun than the reality. I may play the game, I will never pressure wash another fracking truck or grease trap as long as I live.
I don't know about you, but when I'm playing those farm sims my hands get real roughed up as I get through the love interest dialogue trees.
I think where his video should have went in a similar direction would be to recognize that the shitty jobs are subtly forced onto people who don’t have the resources to refuse. It’s not gunpoint but it’s definitely force and fear. Those born into vast resources can infinitely refuse tasks like military service or sewer maintenance without consequences.
I stopped paying attention to them when they insisted on fabricating sex cult allegations, despite being proven false. That well is poisoned. But it's good to keep an eye on obstacles and threats
I think I tend to assume the best in people and their arguments, but I always saw Thought Slime's video as being primarily a response to the idea held by many people that common people won't work if their life/livelihood isn't at stake. His point is that "people like to accomplish things, actually".
Not that there are people who would happily clean sewers all day of their own free will, but if I had to spend two hours a week cleaning a sewer, I could not only do it, but also feel a sense of pride for a job well done. And plenty of other unpleasant jobs could become not just tolerable but satisfying if the work load was spread out across more people. People who could be available to do those jobs if they weren't busy slaving away just go make some rich guy even richer.
And, there are many jobs that people currently do under threat of poverty that tons of people would quite happily do for free if their livelihoods were otherwise safe. As with his Nintendo example, a society without a looming threat of poverty would still have a lot of nice things because people actually like making nice things all on our own (games, toys, art, ,clothes, yummy food, etc.).
The charitable reading of Thought Slime's point is that humans actually enjoy working, and don't necessarily need to be threatened with starvation and homelessness to do productive things. It's a fine point, bruh. Can we please make 2023 the year of a united leftist front? Or are we just gonna keep semantics-ing ourselves? >:[
btw degrowth isn’t necessarily about making life expectancy worse; it just basically means we don’t put constant GDP growth as our main policy goal. it’s got it’s problems, but also the name just kind of sucks at describing what it is
I've read a degrowther arguing that they knew this up front but the point of "degrowth" as the name is a kind of Overton Window play. The idea is, "colonialism" used to be a positive thing. The UK, for instance, was quite proud of its colonies! It took a lot of pressure and protests and campaigning and rebellions and such to get us to the point where we all generally agree that "colonialism" is bad. And that process started with using the label and opposing it. Likewise, the idea behind "degrowth" is to make people rethink their positive assumptions about growth, so that we can begin to even CONSIDER not aligning our whole poltiical-economy towards making line go up.
I....have mixed feelings about all that, but I'm passing all this in because "degrowth is a bad name" is a common take that I think assumes the people who invented the name aren't aware of how it sounds.
Thought slime’s face and mannerisms makes me believe that they were a chupacabra whom feasted on goats in a previous life
It's impressive the confidence some people have when saying the stupidest shit that they can imagine.
TS' view on economics is pretty much what I thought about it as a 13 year old. Difference is, I then went on to learn how much I didn't know about the subject. I hope that no one is watching people like TS and get all their economics views from there.
Knowledge is like the pursuit of peeling an onion, every time you think you r at the center layer, you
Find you are wrong.
Wisdom is knowing how little one knows, which becomes harder each time one elevates their purviews
About the mediocrity…
I like Viscera Clean Up Crew, that doesn't mean I'd be OK with mopping up blood and throwing bodies into an incinerator irl.
This reminded me of the time Vaush discussed the production of insul8n with demon mama without regulations nor a interconnected world
This Thought Slime business needs to stop. It needed to stop a long time ago.
Cue Filthy Frank with the giant clock.
should've been stopped way before they falsely accused Xanderhal of running a sex cult (which they also quadruple down all the time)
We need a complete and total shutdown of this Thought Slime character until we can figure out what’s going on (decades, minimum)
@@alrecks619it’s honestly mad to me that someone can just say this shit and continue having a TH-cam channel as a job.
This might blow some peoples’ minds, but playing American Truck simulator and driving across the entire state of California in 30-45 minutes when I don’t have to follow any traffic laws is way, way, way more fun than driving a real semi truck for 9 hours to go across the state of California where you have to follow traffic laws and deal with shit like fatigue and boredom. Just because people want to drive a truck with a steering wheel set up on their computer doesn’t mean they want to be a trucker.
Vaush: " I don't agree with degrowth" *defends degrowth*
7:47 - 7:53
WARNING: Tactical N-word
I worked in manufacturing. If I never needed to worry about money, I could have worked that job for decades. I loved the job, the work, and the people. If I were still physically capable of it, I'd probably still be there today. I never planned to stay that long, because in order to make more than 40k a year in a job that I can stand, I need to go to college.
If you believe that the only motivating force for people to do dangerous or important jobs is the risk of their life being destroyed by lack of income, you're not just wrong, you fundamentally believe in the concept of slavery.
Gotta say if I could live by just testing pH in rivers I would do it in a heartbeat
I would literally give up everything in my life to clean the sewers
I love doing air traffic control as an unpaid hobby
As someone that started a veggie garden years ago because I loved Stardew Valley so much...I shouldn't have to say that raising actual plants, any kind but especially plants that will produce food, is SO MUCH HARDER than any game makes it seem. Planting at the right time, with the right soil, in the right pots/ground, in the right gardening zone for what you want, feeding at the right times, watering and not watering enough to make a plant thrive....so much work and knowledge. I ended up loving it (after two seasons of FAILURE in growing most of my veggies) but its not something that is at all comparable to games. Also, I have successfully grown dozens of plants of dozens of kinds on my own, I have NEVER grown enough to sustain myself. That's another thing games lie to you about. You have to have giant fields of successful plans to actually survive off of what you grow. And that's given that your crops have the perfect growing conditions that year.
Ever notice how people like this say people will do back-breaking work just because they enjoy it in games and yet the talking head has clearly never gotten their hands dirty or ripped a tendon lifting over 100 pounds dozens of times a day. They think they alone deserve to be an internet personality and everyone else better get into the fields or factories.
I fell for TS for awhile. I forget exactly where I fell off, but it started to feel less and less on point and more about the performance.
Like one day I realized Nostalgia Critic was putting out 85% or more skits instead of review. I just stopped seeing what I was looking for and found the style did not supplant substance in both cases.
I'm honest... Some More News started hitting that point for me. I will not tell anyone to shy away from them, I still fully support and will even say it's a respectable source of information, but some of the bits just started actually repelling me. So it goes.
Whereas with Vaush, even in stunlocks, I'm still interested in what's being conveyed. I like an eclectic education.
Thought Slime apparently missed Das Kapital and all of Marxist economics…
this is really a Nanners moment for TS.
"Funnily", his argument, on the "right", ends up with "well, if you like your job, why do you need a raise, or why should I even pay you ?"
And Marxian economics isn’t even really a rejection of mainstream economics, but an extension of it. They are both largely compatible. Mainstream economics centers around the goal of trying to sustain stable growth, while Marxian economics puts the economy in the broader context of politics (the political economy), historical development, class conflict, etc.
If economics is just _fake_ then why critique capitalism in the first place? Why take a position on it at all?
Finally youtube recommended me a leftist who actually thought about it (and as such I agree with), before that it kept pushing me thoughtslime (appropriate name) and alike. Don't want to be conspiratorial, but if I was a giant corporation I would promote the worst leftist takes to the top to make the whole thing look dumb.
People enjoy eating without cooking.
People enjoy killing in games, but get psychologically traumatized from doing so in real life.
Game war is fun, but real war is hell.
I appreciate that Thought Slime has a (quite hyperbolic) voice, but I also appreciate that your analysis brings a bit of a reality check.
There are many leftists, both IRL and online, that need to understand that being snide, condescending, and performatively offended at the most minor of rhetorical offenses... isn't a f*****g argument!!!
I will say this. While we do need to maintain the same level of industrial efficiency under socialism, that's not mutually exclusive with drastically reducing the sheer quantity of products we're inundated with under capitalism. There's so much shit that people really do not need that we are nonetheless sold, especially in the imperial core. Additionally, I think some areas of the imperial core should expect a relative reduction in total resources allocated to them because those areas already get excess.
@Vaush - Digging holes is definitely a mammal thing. Consider that our ancestors are the ones who were burrowed safely and well-prepared enough to survive the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. We are the best-equipped burrowing mammals the planet has ever seen.
TS made an argument advocating for slavery not even 5 minutes in