I'm a big fan of ADS-B. Anything that enhances flight safety is something that I'm in favor of. The ADS-B feature on my MA2 works like a charm and I don't think I'd be interested in flying without it. Great informative video. Thanks!
Great explanation. I wish they'd do away with the exception for helicopter tours. They're one of the biggest issues when flying in the Las Vegas area. When I fly in either of two canyon areas (Red Rock Canyon and Calico Basin) I have to keep my head on a swivel looking out for low flying helicopters coming over the top of surrounding rock formations. Even worse, when flying in an urban County park, I still have to watch out for helicopters coming back from the Red Rock area and heading for the Strip, flying well below the altitude the ought to be flying at. Apparently they're giving the passengers a thrill or something. Some of them show up on ADS-B but a lot of them don't.
Great stuff, very informative. Thanks for sharing! Interesting to know what type of aircraft and Airspace Designations don't require the use of ADS-B transmitters. It seems like most of the aircraft that truly represent a threat to drones are exactly the ones that don't require the use of ADS-B out transmitters....bummer. I also believe that Military aircraft aren't required to transmit ADS-B signals. Living near a military base I get lot's of low fliers. One thing that would have been nice to speak about is what data is actually transmitted in the ADS-B out signal..at least the relevant stuff. I believe it has the X, Y GPS coords and I assume altitude of the broadcasting aircraft? It is my understanding that the DJI Air Sense implementation doesn't provide/display the altitude info of aircraft so a pilot may get warnings of aircraft that are NOT imminent threats (thousands of feet above you). Not sure if Autel provides altitude info in their ADS-B out implementation. It would be nice if Altitude info was displayed in the drone's ADS-B alert so that you could quickly assess whether the aircraft truly represents a threat or even better if there was a way for a user set a min altitude setting so that the pilot doesn't get alerts for aircraft that are too high to cause any conflict. Maybe that is a feature that is coming in the future?
I fly GA aircraft, and use an iPad with an app that tracks ADS-B out aircraft in the area. My plane is equipped with ADS-B out, so I am visible to other planes. But, in my opinion, someone needs to come out with a small ADS-B out light enough for a drone to carry. But along with that, I would propose a separate "channel" within the ADS-B frequencies exclusive to ADS-B drones. Since there are more drones now than GA airplanes, pilots need to be able to switch their receivers to "see" either GA aircraft or drones, but not both. Why? Because the screen would be so "polluted" with icons representing drones that it would cause MORE confusion for GA pilots. But if drone pilots could see other drones exclusively and/or see GA aircraft on their monitors, it would make things safer for everyone. Regular GA pilots, if they know they might go below 400' (like when they are landing, or in a helicopter) could switch to the "drone channel" of their ADS-B receiver just to be safer. I thin the FAA might mandate this in the future as part of standard piloting procedures.
I don't think it would need to be a separate channel, unless the transmissions themselves causes clogging, but rather a category code or ID prefix that can be used with a display filter. Granted that might not be backwards compatible with existing receivers but then neither would a separate transmission channel.
A simpler/better approach is for the avionics to simply monitor the RID broadcasts and display icons (if desired) and airspace conflict warnings. Experts have decided, with good reason, to NOT add a million ADSB-OUT transmitters to the system.
ADSB out is not required in class E airspace below 10,000 feet which, along with class G airspace make up the majority of GA airports. Therefore there are a substantial number of aircraft that do not have ADSB out.
Yeah, ADS-B is useful but it's very important that people are aware of the limitations. Drone pilots still need to be on the lookout for airplanes and helicopters.
Every time I fly my drone I have my portable ADSB receiver running and connected to my iPad or Phone via WiFi so I can monitor manned aircraft in my area. My receiver “sees” aircraft about 3mi away.
I can confirm that search and rescue helicopters do not show up on Airsense. One was hovering only a few hundred meters from where I was flying my drone recently. A passenger jet flying high above a few minutes earlier had shown up.
When I am flying my drone under 400 ft, when a plane is flying nearby at 1200 ft, “traffic is no factor.” We will get so used to all the false alarms, if there is ever anything flying at our altitude, we will probably ignore it. There is only one time that I was in a situation that could have been a problem. I had just launched and was at only about 150 ft AGL. We were under the 1400 shelf of the KRIC class Charlie outer ring. Out of nowhere, a military transport comes barreling through extremely low. No warning; nothing on FlightAware due to no adsb signal. It was a bit scary.
It seems like most of the aircraft that truly represent a threat to drones are exactly the ones that don't require the use of ADS-B out transmitters...
How would ADS-B show on the receiving end for a drone pilot? On the app you're using? Some other app you would monitor at the same time? Wasn't really clear on how it shows up. Thanks.
Unfortunately, at least originally for Air2, it doesn't display altitude, which is just as important as vector. No need to get an alarm if you're at 200ft and they're at 600ft.
@@danman32 "No need to get an alarm if you're at 200ft and they're at 600ft." I like to be alerted if there's anything within a MILE laterally and perhaps 2000 feet vertically of where I am flying. Depending on what it is, it could close that distance very quickly.
Curious, how can a drone usefully use ADS-B in information? I am not a drone flyer but a hobby is running an ADS-B receiver which submits data to various aviation tracking sites. Not sure what a drone can do with signals.
I was flying a Mavic 3 this morning on new construction project and obtained an audible warning of nearby air traffic. The drone *itself* monitors ADSB messages and since the drone knows exactly where it is in space; lat/long/MSL altitude, it can compare its location to that of any other signal source also broadcasting lat/long/MSL and provide an alert. It is still up to the operator to decide what to do about it; "see and avoid", but it can get your attention in circumstances such as noisy construction sites.
Has anyone done or know of a study/video about how many drones are in an airspace at any given time? Seems like with all the effort to track them and not "overwhelm" the manned aircraft to specifically ban the ADSB-out there would be a few good cases of the congestion from thousands of drones buzzing around all over the place? Just curious.
That's a good question and it would be relevant to the local population I guess, as well as to the types of drones (commercial versus recreational) that may be flying in that area. My guess is that there is no such study at this time. This is an all new area in flight study. We should hope that there is not over-regulation before there is good data.
@@danman32 That’s true for unfamiliar objects, or known objects in a class that can vary in size without detectable changes in appearance or behavior, such as UFOs. But one ought to be able to visually identify both the type and approximate altitude of an aircraft near enough to present a collision hazard. People without that ability shouldn’t fly drones, or drive on roads with intersections or that cross railroad tracks.
@@Reach41 if you go by that, half the population would be disqualified by your rules of transportation, including driving. You must have perfect binocular sight, which would be required to perfectly detect relative 3-D position of two objects without external queues such as overlapping. Example, big objects appearing closer than they actually are compared to smaller objects. I'm really hoping those huge coastguard planes aren't 200ft above ground like they seem to be over my house 4 miles from the airport.
@@danman32 I’m within 5 miles of LAX, and drive under the approach ends of the 4 runways all the time. I’m also a licensed pilot with an instrument rating, fly the A-10C in the DCSW simulator, and am an aircraft structures design engineer. All true, so maybe I have an unfair advantage. I also flew from carriers as a crewman in the Navy. Thus, I do claim to be able to distinguish an airliner at 2000 feet AGL 6 miles away from one at 400 feet less than a mile away. Same for a helicopter or Cessna 310 or F/A-18E. I also claim to be able to hear the difference. That’s all that’s necessary to safely fly RC aircraft where manned aircraft may be encountered in my opinion. Somehow I suspect that you are just as capable with your set of skills?
I thought that was done because of that mid-air collision that happened in California back in the 80's? Either way, I think it's a great idea to put it on drones. Too many yahoos out there that want to fly to the clouds, and that's dangerous. Thanks for sharing Greg 👍👍👍
According to the tower personnel, fact. I haven't been in the tower when he was going in or out, so I can only speak on what actual ATC personnel have said.
Not being a blip on radar seems far fetched, unless their radar filters out objects not having an identifier such as transponder or ADS-B. After all, radar is the measurement of radio signal echo off of an object.
"The outer shape of the fuselage is created by a combination of wooden formers and longerons, covered with fabric." Hence the low radar cross-section. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronca_11_Chief
Greg, as an alternative It might be interesting to note that there are apps on smart phones that will tell you the location of every aircraft in realtime. Not sure whether these apps are capturing ADB-S out info being captured an plotted on the app. If you don't fly you phone (e.g., fly with a tablet) you could in have one of these 3rd Party apps open on your phone and if you hear an aircraft in your area you could quickly check the app on your phone to see the aircraft's location (including altitude). All that said it's nice to have the ADB-out receiver in the drone and integrated in the UAV app. Altitude of the aircraft is kind of important to access the threat.
Those apps are not exactly "realtime" In fact, I watched a number of planes suddenly "jump" 1,000-2,000 feet in a mere second. Great for general info, but inaccurate and dangerous for avoidance navigation. Fun to watch, though, and does give some useful info.
@@TicTac-g7m I think the ADS-B signal is only transmitted every 60 seconds and then of course it has to be retransmitted via cellular to the phone so there is likely going to be some latency..but at least it shows altitude.
I've compared two of the popular apps and they aren't always consistent where I live which is at the edge of a class D airport airspace. Many aircraft of interest that seem low on landing path don't appear at all.
The "apps" aren't actually monitoring the ADSB frequency, but rather tap into one or more databases that are updated largely by volunteers with ADSB receivers that feed into the database. The drone has an actual ADSB receiver and is real time. I have a Stratus ADSB receiver that is real time. It is fun to watch and certainly useful when conducting operations near an airport.
It’s nice to have, but law enforcement and military aircraft don’t use it so when I’m flying on the beach and a coast guard helicopter comes out of nowhere, it’s scares the $}{|7 out of you and it’s hard to get to a safe location for the manned aircraft
The problem is, you can misjudge their altitude visually where they are actually below your altitude. Then what? Descend on top of them? That potential happened to me once with a helicopter at a beach. Turned out helicopter was further off shore than I was based on FPV but I was right about my altitude concerns base on FPV observation.
@@danman32 As you said in order for the illusion to occur the other aircraft would have to be a different distance away so you wouldn't be descending on top of it. If you're doing this fpv then your vo should be able to help you judge the situation. There is no guaranteed solution but almost always the safest thing to do is descend from other aircraft and climb from birds. Manned aircrafts are rarely below 400 ft and birds don't climb as well as they dive.
Yeah, it can't be 100% effective all the time, but the FAA is, as we all know, clear on this issue... Drones must "give right-of-way to manned aircraft" Go up, down, crash into the side of a cliff if you have to, but get out of the way. Perhaps someday recreational drones of significant weight and power can be retrofitted with transponders or similar. Maybe too expensive or heavy, IDK.
I'm a big fan of ADS-B. Anything that enhances flight safety is something that I'm in favor of. The ADS-B feature on my MA2 works like a charm and I don't think I'd be interested in flying without it. Great informative video. Thanks!
Great explanation. I wish they'd do away with the exception for helicopter tours. They're one of the biggest issues when flying in the Las Vegas area. When I fly in either of two canyon areas (Red Rock Canyon and Calico Basin) I have to keep my head on a swivel looking out for low flying helicopters coming over the top of surrounding rock formations. Even worse, when flying in an urban County park, I still have to watch out for helicopters coming back from the Red Rock area and heading for the Strip, flying well below the altitude the ought to be flying at. Apparently they're giving the passengers a thrill or something. Some of them show up on ADS-B but a lot of them don't.
I agree. Lots of lobbying so that they didn't get to follow the rules. Very shortsighted on the part of the FAA if you ask me.
thanks for the link! definitely need to read up on this!
Great video, very good information 👍
Great Job Greg
Thank you for the information! I was not aware of ADS-B and it appears to be a great safety feature.
thanks my brother sign up for 107 with you a couple of weeks ago.
Very nice technology 👍
Great stuff, very informative. Thanks for sharing! Interesting to know what type of aircraft and Airspace Designations don't require the use of ADS-B transmitters. It seems like most of the aircraft that truly represent a threat to drones are exactly the ones that don't require the use of ADS-B out transmitters....bummer. I also believe that Military aircraft aren't required to transmit ADS-B signals. Living near a military base I get lot's of low fliers.
One thing that would have been nice to speak about is what data is actually transmitted in the ADS-B out signal..at least the relevant stuff. I believe it has the X, Y GPS coords and I assume altitude of the broadcasting aircraft? It is my understanding that the DJI Air Sense implementation doesn't provide/display the altitude info of aircraft so a pilot may get warnings of aircraft that are NOT imminent threats (thousands of feet above you). Not sure if Autel provides altitude info in their ADS-B out implementation. It would be nice if Altitude info was displayed in the drone's ADS-B alert so that you could quickly assess whether the aircraft truly represents a threat or even better if there was a way for a user set a min altitude setting so that the pilot doesn't get alerts for aircraft that are too high to cause any conflict. Maybe that is a feature that is coming in the future?
Airsense does display altitude and distance
I fly GA aircraft, and use an iPad with an app that tracks ADS-B out aircraft in the area. My plane is equipped with ADS-B out, so I am visible to other planes.
But, in my opinion, someone needs to come out with a small ADS-B out light enough for a drone to carry. But along with that, I would propose a separate "channel" within the ADS-B frequencies exclusive to ADS-B drones.
Since there are more drones now than GA airplanes, pilots need to be able to switch their receivers to "see" either GA aircraft or drones, but not both. Why? Because the screen would be so "polluted" with icons representing drones that it would cause MORE confusion for GA pilots.
But if drone pilots could see other drones exclusively and/or see GA aircraft on their monitors, it would make things safer for everyone.
Regular GA pilots, if they know they might go below 400' (like when they are landing, or in a helicopter) could switch to the "drone channel" of their ADS-B receiver just to be safer. I thin the FAA might mandate this in the future as part of standard piloting procedures.
I don't think it would need to be a separate channel, unless the transmissions themselves causes clogging, but rather a category code or ID prefix that can be used with a display filter. Granted that might not be backwards compatible with existing receivers but then neither would a separate transmission channel.
A simpler/better approach is for the avionics to simply monitor the RID broadcasts and display icons (if desired) and airspace conflict warnings. Experts have decided, with good reason, to NOT add a million ADSB-OUT transmitters to the system.
Good info, Greg. Thanks.
ADSB out is not required in class E airspace below 10,000 feet which, along with class G airspace make up the majority of GA airports. Therefore there are a substantial number of aircraft that do not have ADSB out.
Yeah, ADS-B is useful but it's very important that people are aware of the limitations. Drone pilots still need to be on the lookout for airplanes and helicopters.
Always well done! Thank you Greg! :-)
Every time I fly my drone I have my portable ADSB receiver running and connected to my iPad or Phone via WiFi so I can monitor manned aircraft in my area. My receiver “sees” aircraft about 3mi away.
I can confirm that search and rescue helicopters do not show up on Airsense. One was hovering only a few hundred meters from where I was flying my drone recently. A passenger jet flying high above a few minutes earlier had shown up.
When I am flying my drone under 400 ft, when a plane is flying nearby at 1200 ft, “traffic is no factor.” We will get so used to all the false alarms, if there is ever anything flying at our altitude, we will probably ignore it. There is only one time that I was in a situation that could have been a problem. I had just launched and was at only about 150 ft AGL. We were under the 1400 shelf of the KRIC class Charlie outer ring. Out of nowhere, a military transport comes barreling through extremely low. No warning; nothing on FlightAware due to no adsb signal. It was a bit scary.
Great comment! This is exactly why visual scanning should remain the number 1 scanning method.
It seems like most of the aircraft that truly represent a threat to drones are exactly the ones that don't require the use of ADS-B out transmitters...
Yep, bingo!
Does the DJI Mavic pro have adsb ?? And is it automatic or do I have to activate it ??
No, it started with the Mavic Air 2.
How would ADS-B show on the receiving end for a drone pilot? On the app you're using? Some other app you would monitor at the same time? Wasn't really clear on how it shows up. Thanks.
On newer DJI drones, your controller will start beeping and notify you of incoming aircraft that use ADS-B.
Unfortunately, at least originally for Air2, it doesn't display altitude, which is just as important as vector. No need to get an alarm if you're at 200ft and they're at 600ft.
@@danman32 "No need to get an alarm if you're at 200ft and they're at 600ft."
I like to be alerted if there's anything within a MILE laterally and perhaps 2000 feet vertically of where I am flying. Depending on what it is, it could close that distance very quickly.
Curious, how can a drone usefully use ADS-B in information? I am not a drone flyer but a hobby is running an ADS-B receiver which submits data to various aviation tracking sites. Not sure what a drone can do with signals.
The drone itself doesn't utilize the information, but the pilot does. Helps with situational awareness.
I was flying a Mavic 3 this morning on new construction project and obtained an audible warning of nearby air traffic. The drone *itself* monitors ADSB messages and since the drone knows exactly where it is in space; lat/long/MSL altitude, it can compare its location to that of any other signal source also broadcasting lat/long/MSL and provide an alert. It is still up to the operator to decide what to do about it; "see and avoid", but it can get your attention in circumstances such as noisy construction sites.
Does my new DJI FPV drone have ADS-B in or Air Sence..?
Yes! All DJI drones made after January 1, 2020 that weigh more than 250 grams will include DJI AirSense.
Has anyone done or know of a study/video about how many drones are in an airspace at any given time? Seems like with all the effort to track them and not "overwhelm" the manned aircraft to specifically ban the ADSB-out there would be a few good cases of the congestion from thousands of drones buzzing around all over the place? Just curious.
That's a good question and it would be relevant to the local population I guess, as well as to the types of drones (commercial versus recreational) that may be flying in that area. My guess is that there is no such study at this time. This is an all new area in flight study. We should hope that there is not over-regulation before there is good data.
When I fly, I look around for any airliners that might be flying below 400 feet. Isn’t that good enough?
there is also a novel biosensor that can detect aircraft close to your quad when flying below 400', they're called ears.
It's not always easy to tell how low an aircraft actually is, or even its distance. Eyes and ears can be deceived.
@@danman32 That’s true for unfamiliar objects, or known objects in a class that can vary in size without detectable changes in appearance or behavior, such as UFOs. But one ought to be able to visually identify both the type and approximate altitude of an aircraft near enough to present a collision hazard. People without that ability shouldn’t fly drones, or drive on roads with intersections or that cross railroad tracks.
@@Reach41 if you go by that, half the population would be disqualified by your rules of transportation, including driving.
You must have perfect binocular sight, which would be required to perfectly detect relative 3-D position of two objects without external queues such as overlapping. Example, big objects appearing closer than they actually are compared to smaller objects.
I'm really hoping those huge coastguard planes aren't 200ft above ground like they seem to be over my house 4 miles from the airport.
@@danman32 I’m within 5 miles of LAX, and drive under the approach ends of the 4 runways all the time. I’m also a licensed pilot with an instrument rating, fly the A-10C in the DCSW simulator, and am an aircraft structures design engineer. All true, so maybe I have an unfair advantage. I also flew from carriers as a crewman in the Navy. Thus, I do claim to be able to distinguish an airliner at 2000 feet AGL 6 miles away from one at 400 feet less than a mile away. Same for a helicopter or Cessna 310 or F/A-18E. I also claim to be able to hear the difference. That’s all that’s necessary to safely fly RC aircraft where manned aircraft may be encountered in my opinion. Somehow I suspect that you are just as capable with your set of skills?
you don't need it on the quad, it works good enough on the ground, you can buy cheap Pi versions of ADSB too.
I thought that was done because of that mid-air collision that happened in California back in the 80's?
Either way, I think it's a great idea to put it on drones. Too many yahoos out there that want to fly to the clouds, and that's dangerous. Thanks for sharing Greg 👍👍👍
My friend has a 1947 Aeronca Chief. No ADS-B, no transponder, and according to our Delta tower, it doesn't even show up on the radar.
Not on radar? No way.
According to the tower personnel, fact. I haven't been in the tower when he was going in or out, so I can only speak on what actual ATC personnel have said.
Not being a blip on radar seems far fetched, unless their radar filters out objects not having an identifier such as transponder or ADS-B. After all, radar is the measurement of radio signal echo off of an object.
@@danman32 not something I'm going to argue about with you. Have a great day.
"The outer shape of the fuselage is created by a combination of wooden formers and longerons, covered with fabric."
Hence the low radar cross-section.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronca_11_Chief
Greg, as an alternative It might be interesting to note that there are apps on smart phones that will tell you the location of every aircraft in realtime. Not sure whether these apps are capturing ADB-S out info being captured an plotted on the app. If you don't fly you phone (e.g., fly with a tablet) you could in have one of these 3rd Party apps open on your phone and if you hear an aircraft in your area you could quickly check the app on your phone to see the aircraft's location (including altitude). All that said it's nice to have the ADB-out receiver in the drone and integrated in the UAV app. Altitude of the aircraft is kind of important to access the threat.
Those apps are not exactly "realtime"
In fact, I watched a number of planes suddenly "jump" 1,000-2,000 feet in a mere second.
Great for general info, but inaccurate and dangerous for avoidance navigation.
Fun to watch, though, and does give some useful info.
@@TicTac-g7m I think the ADS-B signal is only transmitted every 60 seconds and then of course it has to be retransmitted via cellular to the phone so there is likely going to be some latency..but at least it shows altitude.
I've compared two of the popular apps and they aren't always consistent where I live which is at the edge of a class D airport airspace.
Many aircraft of interest that seem low on landing path don't appear at all.
The "apps" aren't actually monitoring the ADSB frequency, but rather tap into one or more databases that are updated largely by volunteers with ADSB receivers that feed into the database.
The drone has an actual ADSB receiver and is real time.
I have a Stratus ADSB receiver that is real time. It is fun to watch and certainly useful when conducting operations near an airport.
It’s nice to have, but law enforcement and military aircraft don’t use it so when I’m flying on the beach and a coast guard helicopter comes out of nowhere, it’s scares the $}{|7 out of you and it’s hard to get to a safe location for the manned aircraft
Just go down. They won't follow you into the sand or the water...
@@jerseyshoredroneservices225
That's exactly what I do... Go down and/or land.
The problem is, you can misjudge their altitude visually where they are actually below your altitude. Then what? Descend on top of them?
That potential happened to me once with a helicopter at a beach. Turned out helicopter was further off shore than I was based on FPV but I was right about my altitude concerns base on FPV observation.
@@danman32
As you said in order for the illusion to occur the other aircraft would have to be a different distance away so you wouldn't be descending on top of it. If you're doing this fpv then your vo should be able to help you judge the situation.
There is no guaranteed solution but almost always the safest thing to do is descend from other aircraft and climb from birds. Manned aircrafts are rarely below 400 ft and birds don't climb as well as they dive.
Yeah, it can't be 100% effective all the time, but the FAA is, as we all know, clear on this issue... Drones must "give right-of-way to manned aircraft"
Go up, down, crash into the side of a cliff if you have to, but get out of the way.
Perhaps someday recreational drones of significant weight and power can be retrofitted with transponders or similar.
Maybe too expensive or heavy, IDK.