Gieseking is volcanic, temperamental and at times ecstatic but sometimes out of control...however one can argue that this kind of playing is closer to Beethoven's spirit than a "disciplined" version...
I agree that qualities such as 'volcanic' and 'ecstatic' are appropriate to Beethoven's best music but, for me, firm rhythm is also pretty crucial. Without this I find that the music loses some of its strength and impact.
Could you define exactly what you mean with "rhythmically undisciplined", for example in what places? The only thing that bothers me sometimes in Gieseking's version is his excessive "forward momentum" - where the music gets excited or demanding, he sometimes speeds up the tempo. Perhaps we're talking about the same thing - you mean "firm rhythm" related to "keeping the same tempo"?
Yes, rushing or instability of pulse might have been a better way of describing what I meant, but there are also some distorted rhythms, as in Variation 1 of the second movement where the left-hand semiquaver quite often arrives early making the rhythm between the hands veer towards 32nd note - dotted 16th note - 16th note rather than even 16th-notes in a 9/16 metre, and in Variation 3, for all the evident bravura, the dotted rhythms are regularly compromised (though some are very good!). Having said that, I do think there are many beautiful things from WG in this movement.
Thanks, I see (or hear) what you mean. Like you though, I think that despite these imperfections there is great beauty & power of persuasion in his playing. And there's only one other performance of WG playing Op. 111 - another broadcast recording made two years later. The interpretations are pretty similar, but I think I prefer the earlier one.
Such an amazing musician!!!
Many thanks, dear Erwin for the wonderful upload
Beautiful ! Thank you for posting :)
wow
As one would expect, a lovely piano sound, but I do find quite a lot of it rather undisciplined rhythmically. The final trills are beautifully done.
Gieseking is volcanic, temperamental and at times ecstatic but sometimes out of control...however one can argue that this kind of playing is closer to Beethoven's spirit than a "disciplined" version...
I agree that qualities such as 'volcanic' and 'ecstatic' are appropriate to Beethoven's best music but, for me, firm rhythm is also pretty crucial. Without this I find that the music loses some of its strength and impact.
Could you define exactly what you mean with "rhythmically undisciplined", for example in what places?
The only thing that bothers me sometimes in Gieseking's version is his excessive "forward momentum" - where the music gets excited or demanding, he sometimes speeds up the tempo. Perhaps we're talking about the same thing - you mean "firm rhythm" related to "keeping the same tempo"?
Yes, rushing or instability of pulse might have been a better way of describing what I meant, but there are also some distorted rhythms, as in Variation 1 of the second movement where the left-hand semiquaver quite often arrives early making the rhythm between the hands veer towards 32nd note - dotted 16th note - 16th note rather than even 16th-notes in a 9/16 metre, and in Variation 3, for all the evident bravura, the dotted rhythms are regularly compromised (though some are very good!). Having said that, I do think there are many beautiful things from WG in this movement.
Thanks, I see (or hear) what you mean. Like you though, I think that despite these imperfections there is great beauty & power of persuasion in his playing. And there's only one other performance of WG playing Op. 111 - another broadcast recording made two years later. The interpretations are pretty similar, but I think I prefer the earlier one.
16:59 Welch Erlösung. Sagenhaft.
9:50