Finally someone appreciates all the work many of us do in their freetime. I have not had time to contribute much the past months and I am more kernel and compute than graphics but I am quite much into the latest stuff nevertheless.
MEME MEISTER XD I do not believe it is a resources issue, but protecting the secrets in their cards. There are pros and cons to that. No open source drivers is one. I have written quite a few things on this. A semi stable interface for these drivers, like it only changes every major kernel version, could be good. Then you can also change the user space interface as it is deemed fit to keep it fast and clean, yet they do anything and everything to keep that stable. It would help adoption on the desktop a lot I think. And make many open source diehards very very angry as well. Meaning that keeps it off the desktop and linux gaming more of a curiosity and niche thing. Steambox might have made it a semi-console/mediacentre living room gaming os, but it did not do too well so far. The flipside will be ludicrously shit drivers for a million printerscanners that have all the logic in the drivers, crappy wlan adapters that will drag down the kernel, etc. But the choice has been made and I can do nothing about it. Considering the adoption of shit like systemd and userspace interface I wonder why a stable interface is the monster for simple facilitating drivers.
I'm an indie dev and I started porting my game to Linux last week. Starting with zero knowledge of Linux I installed ubuntu on my old laptap, got my codeblocks and C++ compiler up and running and have been pleasantly surprised at the OS so far, i did have to google to solve blank screen at boot time but no major problems so far.
TheWeepingCorpse cheers and welcome to Linux community and I hope people like u make good games available for Linux distros and other os.... ..i will be glad to buy them
Agreed, I just hope far as graphics drivers go it's becomes as simple as Windows is today so we can covert more people over from Windows 10, and even OSX as Apple keeps making blunder after blunder.
It will, AMD is moving to a F/OSS only driver for future hardware so all of this work will be done before release date mostly by their in house driver team. The problem will be getting distros to backport the drivers.
Building packages is also easier since you don't have to jump through hoops for a .deb file. The ABS/makepkg/etc is amazing. RPM Spec comes close but it's still not as easy.
Gentoo should also be a similar story for similar reasons. Running officially supported stuff is always easiest on rigidly structured and contained distros. Everything is tested thoroughly before being mainlined, and you can only run stuff that'll give you a great experience without tinkering, though you can get a better experience tinkering if you have the time, patience, skill, and willingness to tinker. However, if you have the latter, it's almost always better to just go ahead and use something like Arch or Gentoo, where the tinkering tools are the focus of the distribution and far more robust and complete. You often have to do more things more manually or create or port tools with other distros.
What?!? JK, I think that's such an obvious statement it never needed to be said... I mean my 2006 Pentium single thread tablet runs pretty snappy on Puppy comparable to a mid range ($4-500) recent laptop. My dad bought it for $0.25 at a thrift store, and we upgraded the DDR2(?) to a whopping 715 MB, so its plenty to store everything and eject the drive (run a USB to startup, and toss it out for the extra port. It was missing the HDD). The first time I ran Linux was on my laptop (came with Windows 8.1), and I put Ubuntu on it to make it run faster. Running the same exact program (Repetier Host: Cura slicing STL and converting to G-code for 3d printing) was over 7.5x faster than windows (8.1 and 10 both). It took under 5 seconds on linux, and over 35-40 seconds on windows on my laptop. It was just about as fast to shut windows down and then boot into Linux. That was on simple objects, complex objects made it really worth it to switch into Linux. That extra speed was pretty much found everywhere (though normal use I would say was conservatively only 3x faster). So Linux is awesome, you can even see the difference on high end systems.
Yeah, that's because windows has so much fucking overhead. Modern CPUs are just so fast that most of the time it's negligible, but on older CPUs like C2D and P4 Linux is the only usable OS.
I'd prefer Linux but there is still a better selection of games on windows. As well as better driver support for most hardware. Without a doubt if Linux was focused on you might see some significant gains on an optimized system (most people are gonna overdo their installs rather then minimalize them)
Ive got Vega56 on Arch and had a few headaches getting it going. Some updates break everything others work pretty well. The good news is it looks like the display code needed for newer AMD GPUs is going to added to the Linux kernel from 4.15. This will make things much, much easier.
Sorry, didn't notice any replies. Since 4.15 it's been very solid and since 4.16 I can't recall experiencing any issues (even minor ones). At this point it just works and works really well.
The open source AMD drivers are better for gaming than the closed source AMD drivers. Open source drivers aren't a handicap if they're given all the attention they need to be good.
While I've had pretty much zero issues with the open source Radeon drivers, I do wish that they had a Crimson like utility on Linux, that would be ideal. The only reason I keep Windows installed is because of The Witcher 3, if it was released on Linux I'd have zero reason to stay on Windows, and even as we speak, Wine is getting closer every day to it being playable on Linux, and in fact, the last time I tried it, I could get it to run at about 70FPS at Ultra (with an R9 390 and 2500K) except for the (obviously show stopping) issue of the center of the screen being pure white, when that's fixed, it'll be fully playable afaict. I couldn't remember if this giveaway is restricted to the US only, but I entered anyway just in case, I also entered because I would love a new system for my birthday, which is October 5th, and this would be an ideal upgrade from my current rig. Great video as always Wendell, love the content you and your team put out, and good luck to everyone who enters the competition!
molenini So? I also play more than just TW3, I don't have a massive collection of games, I have around 90 games currently, but it's TW3 that keeps Windows installed on my computer. I really don't understand the point of your comment, but if it makes you happy then fair enough.
Willy et scientia Lmao, you think I'm personally offended by your sad attempt at trolling? That's adorable. If you're going to be a troll, you're going to need thicker skin than that if being called penis features makes you cry lmao.
I thought about making a tutorial on how to set up Vega distribution-independent but I think no one would a) understand very much b) watch the video through because it would be long.
You have to also understand that it would take time to produce, that, given the amount of people that would benefit from it, might not be worth it, considering that I am extremly bound by time doing fancy physics stuff. Maybe in 4-5 months.
Narwaro to be honest, i would not benefit at all. i sometimes still watch videos about very specific topics for fun. there's nothing more rewarding than having no idea what the person is talking about but understanding it in the end
because ~Cheesy Linus is very charismatic, so he appeals to a higher audience, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, he knows what he is doing. Just think of LTT as a "pop channel"
I'm not running RX Vega at all, but I've been using M-Bab's Kernel which has AMD's DC stack & also has the Firmware Binaries from GitHub for testing. I've also been using Padoka's Mesa PPA. I've been playing and testing things out for a good while now. Only real problem I've run into have to do with suspending and resuming, but yes, the open source AMDGPU driver in its entirety is really nice - all the hard work is really shining through. I can't ever remember a time where it's been this much of a breeze in setting up ATi/AMD graphics hardware either (ATi/AMD graphics in linux has always been more... "problematic" for getting working then getting nVidia's binary blob working - least that's been my experience from the early 00's when I first got into Linux). Hopefully the latest pull request for AMD's DC stack can be approved. Also nice to see that RADV is now considered Vulcan compliant (at least for the Radeon R9 285).
thanks for all the awesome info. please keep up the good work. im SUPER STOKED that there are more and more games coming out for linux... this is so awesome!
The African name is pronounced oooh boontoo, not ooh bun too. I run X-Plane 10 and 11 and FlightGear on Ubuntu, now just upgraded to 17.10 beta two nights ago. I only use flight simulators, and use an old Gigabyte AMD Radeon R9 280X, and XP runs perfectly with the opensource Gallium drivers. Even though X-Plane does not support Gallium. And I am also experiencing better benchmarking with the Gallium driver to a equivalent nVidia I tested. I had to use the force run mode to get X-Plane to work with the AMD card, up to Ubuntu 17.04, but since 17.10 I can run it straight off the default icons. Nice video, thanks
I use gentoo not arch, but the same principal tends to apply. In my experience, these distros make everything much harder, except the boarderline impossible stuff, which while still difficult is exponentially easier.
I looked at that buttons on your desk and couldn't figure out why a Linux geek like Wendell would use a dektop calculator before I realised it's a stream deck for scene switching :D
Re Nvida closed source vs AMD open source drivers: About one or two months ago I again tried to run Dying Light on AMDGPU opensource drivers. To my surprise, the game finally started even though it took ages. I was in 1080p and set the graphics options to the maximum possible. My even bigger surprise was, when the 1st mission ("Parkour training") ran in 80 to 110 fps! On a 2GB Radeon HD7870 GPU!!! Unfortunately as of the 2nd mission the framerate dropped to unplayable 7 to 14 - that still must have been some bug and I don't know if it's fixed yet (I bet it's not). However, I then installed a 3GB GTX 1060 and closed source drivers, running the same game settings. I was surprised to see the framerates at significantly lower levels (around 50 to 90) in the Parkour Training mission when compared to the old HD7870. Also, the Radeon experience was much smoother and if the issues plaguing the amdgpu/DyingLight would get fixed finally it would definitely be the better choice for that game. This led to a conclusion which again was a surprise to me: Nvidia's closed source drivers for Linux may be OK (everything works), but a far stretch from excellent. I'd like to add that the archaic HD 7870 performs in Rust also realtively well when compared to the GTX 1060...
I went through the trouble. It took a whole week but I was also VERY busy and only spent 2-3 hours every evening. Situation improved somewhat since launch, mainly because of the DC stack in the kernel(s) (torvald‘s and the staging) and I am pretty stoked about 4.15. I ultimately let it be and reinstalled a headless Debian because I only use that thing for my own Physics simulations anyways.
Been using Ubuntu for the past 3 years...on 2012 tech. I am currently on 16.04 and am loving it. The new Gallium driver for AMD cards is the tits! I can run Skyrim on ultra settings at 60fps on a AMD-5400k OCD at 4.3ghz with a RX460.
I could swear RotTR runs faster on Linux/Vulkan than on Windows DX11/12. I have an old FX-4100 with a GTX-1030 and play RotTR on Linux (Ubuntu 17.10, Nvidia 396.18) and god I was blown away by the gaming performance. My benchmark video: th-cam.com/video/1gVyxjjfT-o/w-d-xo.html
Hey man running a Ryzen 7 1700X on a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5 with a RX 580. I could free up a SSD to do some kind of testing if you point me in the right direction.
Hey Wendell, could you make a Video that's specific about SR-IOV? Like what Hardware is compatible/usable and some use cases and maybe even how to set it up? I would really appreciate it. Thank you for being you and doing all that Linux stuff.
maybe a weird place to ask this, and i've been watchin your news show, so if i somehow missed it....shame on me, but what do you guys think of the librem 5 phone? and would ya do a shoutout? that sucker needs to happen.
Congratulations on the videos. I really like Linux and I like to play a lot, I'm currently creating little content about Linux, because I'm starting now, but I will create more.
For me, this video was an enlightening glimpse into a side of the Linux culture that I normally have no contact with. Man, writing drivers is so baffling and mysterious to me. Who has time to work on that? For free??
Forza 7 pc can literally run 32 threads as it used dx12. TSO is a dx9 game. Of course it will only utilize 1-2 threads. All Bethesda games are shit like that. Comparing a dx9 game to a dx12 game is like comparing ps4 pro vs xbox one x.
So how is the gpu compute performance?(openCL, vulkan) Just curious, the last AMD card I bought with consideration for GPU compute, doesn't currently have any Linux driver support for compute, no issues with display graphics but I didn't need a $700 Pitcairn Firepro for watching some videos. (at the time of purchase I was using it with dual boot and Autocad rendering on win7 so I kept the card. It's GCN v1.0. the proprietary drivers are no longer viable for that chip series, and the open source haven't managed to get compatibility back that far, GCN v2.0 is supported, and v1.1 is experimental)
Hi, I was wondering if a Ryzen R5 1600 + RX 580 8 GB is a perfect coupling now for GNU/Linux. Since the 4.13 and 17.2 kernels were released what do you think about it?
Wendell, can you point me in the direction of a good guide to getting into linux and getting it installed and to a stable state. I'm looking to transition my home server that is running windows 7 to a linux kernel. Or maybe you could do a video series of getting ubuntu going on an older amd based desktop computer.
I don't understand how this is possible. Would you consider a video explaining the difference between Linux and Windows that creates this difference? Or is it that the 1080ti operates so bad under Linux and because of that the Vega 64 beats it?
Why did you end the giveaway so soon ? :( I mean not even a week has been passed since you announced it.. :( Anyways I hope that the winners enjoys his prize :) Also where is the link on the article about the open source graphics stack?
Does someone know what happened to the livestreaming with Wendell and Bryan Lunduke on the 24 hour Lunduke thon? Wendell, I heard you telling Bryan about this video on the livestreaming. keep on Wendell, the Dark Knight within W3C ha ha ha !!! Greetings from Chiapas, Mexico.
I have an AMD FX-60 setup. Yes, it's old. I've had various Linux distros like Debian, Gentoo and Ubuntu on it over the years. I tried to bit a somewhat modern 64-bit Windows on it, but since the chip doesn't support hardware encryption I can't run anything modern like Windows 8.1 or 10, 64-bit. I do have 4GBs of RAM and 64-bit just runs nice on that old setup. That said, is a modern Debian or Ubuntu a good distro to run on old hardware like that? I removed my old 4770s GPUs and replaced them with a 6870. Totally overkill but at least that single card is quiet and can run 1440p respectfully. I've been out of the Linux loop and tinkering for quite some time and just want a stable system that works and plays my old Source games like LFD2 and things like that. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. That said. I'm really stoked on building a Threadripper and Vega system since AMD is at least competitive again. Maybe something like that might give me the incentive to tinker with builds but as of now I just need a working system that is supported and works on my old classic :)
Are you posting these videos to lbry.io? It's a distrubuted content network and open source free software. I understand it's a bit of work to set up, but then it will pull your videos directly from youtube it you want. Just a thought.
Has anything improved as of August 27, 2018 ? Are we almost there yet ?? I can't decide on what to invest my money and time in ? OpenSuSE Tumbleweed, Fedora Rawhide, Mageia Cauldron ( 7 ), but today I am using Siduction ( Debian Buster ) with kernel 4.18.0. I am not enough of a Linux nerd to keep up with it all, and I am losing my ability to find spare time. The realities of life ( job and family ) are just killing me.
Nvidia drivers have always sucked in Linux.. How’s this a surprise? I’m running an RX470 on Debian got no issue with it since day one.. I don’t do much gaming but games like Ballistic Overkill and Rocket League they run just fine! Over 70+ fps all the time..
I bought one because I wanted to game on my laptop. I still get better performance using the Nvidia GPU than the Intel GPU, but it's a PITA to setup... Knowing what I know now, I would say the same thing...
Ok, My own experience on Nvidia+Linux is not even close to my current setup with AMD.. and this is my very first time that I have an AMD card since they bought ATI.. besides a small netbook with an APU So yeaaars without AMD on my rig.. I’ve never been team red on GPU’s.. But now that I only use Linux I wanted to give it a try.. And oh boy it feels good not having to deal with updates, broken dependencies, tearing, pixelations, and system crashes.. out of the box.. From my Amazon box to my MB that was it.. 😏
Test TestLast and on a distro like Mint XFCE AMD is still pain in the ass with the Nvidia drivers being able to be installed in just a few simple clicks that even my aunt in her 70's could do. I love AMD, and have used them for years, but you are 100% correct on Nividia being the way to go for so long on Linux.
Impressive news, Wendell. But now that you told us the RX Vega 64 beats the 1080Ti (which is insane to imagine), why did you choose the B350 over another chipset that's more friendly towards gpu-passthrough?
Hah, this ALMOST makes me sad I'm not buying Vega for my upcoming TR4 build. At the very least, the cards I scrounged are still team Red so it's all good
I think this is a no wonder since AMD parts are usually better than Nvidia in linux whether with propiertary or open source drivers in use. On one side note, that computer do seem to have plenty of room for a giant CPU cooler for maximum cooling. Oh well I do feel like adding a lot of extra on this comment in particular but have you even tried any experimentation on Debian though? It does have some things in common with Ubuntu but not straight off compatible since they are only similar with a little difference in between.
Hey, I'm running mint 18.2 and when im watching youtube videos my screen flickers every 3 to 4 seconds. Please help, and i tried changing kernel with no luck
Oh that's not good, Summit Ridge is one thing for not having the IOMMU shit working but ThreadRipper is really something you a likely to buy for doing VM's due to the 64 PCIe lanes.
Would love to help, but my coding is still too far from being able to contribute. Can run some benches and post how to got to make stuff work. But Gpu is somewhat old.
Whats the deal atm with Vega 64 on Linux? Just bought a Vega 64 Nitro+ and upgraded from RX470, was using the open source AMDGPU drivers with my RX470 with no issues but with the Vega 64 it severely stutters/lags, even at idle when moving cursor around, literally all the time. No drivers issues on Windows, so its not the card. Using Linux Mint 18.1. I have two monitors, 1440p connected by display port, and 1080p one via HDMI and the 1080p one is not recognised at all and get an error that says something like "VGA modes not compatable" sorry cannot remember the exact error message, swapped cards back for time being.
I've had so many fucking issues with NVIDIA it's giving me a stroke, Nouveau (The open source drivers) Have very 'shaky' support for maxwell, where, you update - then the system fails to boot with an error message along the lines of "POINTER TO FLAT TABLE INVALID" or some other shit, Nvidias proprietary garbage has the issue of barely support jack shit, such as Wayland and any kind of usable configuration. Performance is also Terrible with extremely unstable framerate on factory clock. I've tested Windows 10 UEFI and none of these Issues are present, I've also had many problems with Nvidias BS anti-Virtual machine tactics where they find strings that match 'KVM', then the driver turns off and you can't use the graphics card.
AMD out performs Nvidia on Macs as well I wonder if it has to do with the Unix & Unix-like system being able to take advantage of the AMD GPUs over Nvidia????
I would love to hear more about vulcan Vulcan was going to be on linux right? If all the awesome games i love could run on linux i'd switch yesterday. Really it makes me sad that I'm so reliant on an operating system I honestly don't like. At least I don't have to use apple? ha, i don't know enough about it to say i guess. Seems like they've been falling behind lately though.
the open source AMD vulkan stack (radv) is very, very young. Unlike the rest of amdgpu, it's not directly receiving support from AMD. It was only considered compliant by the developers (afaik still not certified by khronos) in May.
Vulkan will not be dropped, it's better than DX12 and can support more systems besides windows 10. I know what I would support if I wanted to reach as many gamers as possible.
Man I hope I win that machine, my fx-8350 build is really getting long in the tooth. Can you point me in the right direction to take a look into the driver process that's going on? I'm in computer science and am really interested in seeing the process because I'm not at the point where I'd be comfortable contributing but I'd like to see someone working on it to know what to expect when I am capable in the future.
That thanklessness is mostly due to the fact that there are no credits like in the movies. Maybe the demo scene guys can come up with a screen saver. OT: Anybody knows an app for windows that takes the URL that is normally send to the default browser and sends it to a clipboard manager that is well integrated into the notification area of windows? Or even better can be configured for the notification area ANDOR the pinned apps area?
Please do a guide for the clueless. I have vega and would like the screen to update UI more then once a second, obviously I've failed in my attempts so far. Last I heard it'd be January before 'it just works' on os install
Finally someone appreciates all the work many of us do in their freetime. I have not had time to contribute much the past months and I am more kernel and compute than graphics but I am quite much into the latest stuff nevertheless.
Thank you!
Thank You very very much. Whenever you visit India drinks on me :)
Thank you !!!!
Thank you, go speak with Wendell, it would be interesting to hear from someone who is contributing to the kernel or other OSS.
Thank youuu...
And this is why hardware vendors should cooperate with open source on their support software stacks.
MEME MEISTER XD
I do not believe it is a resources issue, but protecting the secrets in their cards. There are pros and cons to that. No open source drivers is one. I have written quite a few things on this. A semi stable interface for these drivers, like it only changes every major kernel version, could be good. Then you can also change the user space interface as it is deemed fit to keep it fast and clean, yet they do anything and everything to keep that stable.
It would help adoption on the desktop a lot I think. And make many open source diehards very very angry as well. Meaning that keeps it off the desktop and linux gaming more of a curiosity and niche thing. Steambox might have made it a semi-console/mediacentre living room gaming os, but it did not do too well so far.
The flipside will be ludicrously shit drivers for a million printerscanners that have all the logic in the drivers, crappy wlan adapters that will drag down the kernel, etc.
But the choice has been made and I can do nothing about it. Considering the adoption of shit like systemd and userspace interface I wonder why a stable interface is the monster for simple facilitating drivers.
I'm an indie dev and I started porting my game to Linux last week. Starting with zero knowledge of Linux I installed ubuntu on my old laptap, got my codeblocks and C++ compiler up and running and have been pleasantly surprised at the OS so far, i did have to google to solve blank screen at boot time but no major problems so far.
TheWeepingCorpse cheers and welcome to Linux community and I hope people like u make good games available for Linux distros and other os.... ..i will be glad to buy them
god damn this stuff is amazing... the next few years with linux is going to be interesting!
Agreed, I just hope far as graphics drivers go it's becomes as simple as Windows is today so we can covert more people over from Windows 10, and even OSX as Apple keeps making blunder after blunder.
WE SHALL RULE THE WORLD!
15 years ago i said the same :D
Yeah Linux has been around for over a quarter of a century and still is "going to be amazing in the next few years".
It will, AMD is moving to a F/OSS only driver for future hardware so all of this work will be done before release date mostly by their in house driver team. The problem will be getting distros to backport the drivers.
Dude! That's so freaking cool!!! Thanks for the updates on Vega on Linux. I know a lot of people don't watch Linux channels, wish that would change
I love the focus on open source drivers
I honestly never thought I would hear someone say something was easier on Arch than on another distro.
DreamzInDigital installing anything not in the official repos is easier also (aur)
Building packages is also easier since you don't have to jump through hoops for a .deb file. The ABS/makepkg/etc is amazing. RPM Spec comes close but it's still not as easy.
Gentoo should also be a similar story for similar reasons. Running officially supported stuff is always easiest on rigidly structured and contained distros. Everything is tested thoroughly before being mainlined, and you can only run stuff that'll give you a great experience without tinkering, though you can get a better experience tinkering if you have the time, patience, skill, and willingness to tinker. However, if you have the latter, it's almost always better to just go ahead and use something like Arch or Gentoo, where the tinkering tools are the focus of the distribution and far more robust and complete. You often have to do more things more manually or create or port tools with other distros.
Because AUR is amazing.. someone always put there what I look for. Thanks to those nerds
arch is easy if you can come to it with fresh head dumping all that bias surrounding that distro
Fact: linux is more powerful than window and it uses less resources.
What?!? JK, I think that's such an obvious statement it never needed to be said... I mean my 2006 Pentium single thread tablet runs pretty snappy on Puppy comparable to a mid range ($4-500) recent laptop. My dad bought it for $0.25 at a thrift store, and we upgraded the DDR2(?) to a whopping 715 MB, so its plenty to store everything and eject the drive (run a USB to startup, and toss it out for the extra port. It was missing the HDD).
The first time I ran Linux was on my laptop (came with Windows 8.1), and I put Ubuntu on it to make it run faster. Running the same exact program (Repetier Host: Cura slicing STL and converting to G-code for 3d printing) was over 7.5x faster than windows (8.1 and 10 both). It took under 5 seconds on linux, and over 35-40 seconds on windows on my laptop. It was just about as fast to shut windows down and then boot into Linux. That was on simple objects, complex objects made it really worth it to switch into Linux. That extra speed was pretty much found everywhere (though normal use I would say was conservatively only 3x faster). So Linux is awesome, you can even see the difference on high end systems.
Yeah, that's because windows has so much fucking overhead. Modern CPUs are just so fast that most of the time it's negligible, but on older CPUs like C2D and P4 Linux is the only usable OS.
It does. If it could get the optimization of Windows with graphics and CPU, it'd actually do far better because of less pointless computation.
But the Linux community is the most toxic behind the nVidia one so there are ups and downs for both.
I'd prefer Linux but there is still a better selection of games on windows. As well as better driver support for most hardware. Without a doubt if Linux was focused on you might see some significant gains on an optimized system (most people are gonna overdo their installs rather then minimalize them)
I love your NES inspired laptop skin. Is that something you had printed and installed onto a laptop or what is that?
On Vega in Linux, I am impressed!
Ive got Vega56 on Arch and had a few headaches getting it going. Some updates break everything others work pretty well. The good news is it looks like the display code needed for newer AMD GPUs is going to added to the Linux kernel from 4.15. This will make things much, much easier.
LeJimster how's it working out, any minor issues that would we useful to know about going in?
Sorry, didn't notice any replies. Since 4.15 it's been very solid and since 4.16 I can't recall experiencing any issues (even minor ones). At this point it just works and works really well.
Wait so Vega 64 is outperforming a 1080Ti on linux with the handicap of Open Source Drivers/Graphics stacks? Impressive.
Daymian Hogue watch the entire video and listen for caveats. But for the most part
AMD is known to have better open-source drivers than nVidia for a while now
The open source AMD drivers are better for gaming than the closed source AMD drivers. Open source drivers aren't a handicap if they're given all the attention they need to be good.
Impressive? No. Interesting? Yes.
You're supposed to use the open-source stack with recent AMD hardware. The closed stack (AMDGPU-PRO) is just for pro apps.
While I've had pretty much zero issues with the open source Radeon drivers, I do wish that they had a Crimson like utility on Linux, that would be ideal.
The only reason I keep Windows installed is because of The Witcher 3, if it was released on Linux I'd have zero reason to stay on Windows, and even as we speak, Wine is getting closer every day to it being playable on Linux, and in fact, the last time I tried it, I could get it to run at about 70FPS at Ultra (with an R9 390 and 2500K) except for the (obviously show stopping) issue of the center of the screen being pure white, when that's fixed, it'll be fully playable afaict.
I couldn't remember if this giveaway is restricted to the US only, but I entered anyway just in case, I also entered because I would love a new system for my birthday, which is October 5th, and this would be an ideal upgrade from my current rig.
Great video as always Wendell, love the content you and your team put out, and good luck to everyone who enters the competition!
Damn, didnt know The Witcher 3 ran that well on wine... Gonna have to try a bunch of games on wine now :D
I play many more titles than Witcher 3. That's why I'm on Windows.
molenini So? I also play more than just TW3, I don't have a massive collection of games, I have around 90 games currently, but it's TW3 that keeps Windows installed on my computer.
I really don't understand the point of your comment, but if it makes you happy then fair enough.
Robinthefox88 who the hell plays that shit of a game? LOL
Willy et scientia Lmao, you think I'm personally offended by your sad attempt at trolling? That's adorable.
If you're going to be a troll, you're going to need thicker skin than that if being called penis features makes you cry lmao.
I thought about making a tutorial on how to set up Vega distribution-independent but I think no one would
a) understand very much
b) watch the video through because it would be long.
Narwaro i love watching very long videos :)
do it for me. :D
You have to also understand that it would take time to produce, that, given the amount of people that would benefit from it, might not be worth it, considering that I am extremly bound by time doing fancy physics stuff. Maybe in 4-5 months.
Narwaro to be honest, i would not benefit at all. i sometimes still watch videos about very specific topics for fun. there's nothing more rewarding than having no idea what the person is talking about but understanding it in the end
Do it. please.
Good to see this channel is still updated every once in a while!
We did some live streams to make up for it, but been busy with new hardware the last few months and working on Vega and guides for setting up Vega).
How the F*** this guy is not more popular than all those crappy "Tech Channels"? Cheesy Linus especially.
because ~Cheesy Linus is very charismatic, so he appeals to a higher audience, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, he knows what he is doing. Just think of LTT as a "pop channel"
This is not a problem. Those channels tend to draw too many of the clueless and/or trolls.
Maybe it's because Linus's fan base is a little less toxic?
he used to be the better half of "the tek" then logan got anal cancer
We get it, stop bitching you fuckin hipsters 😂😂😂
I didn't expect the RX Vega to excel from the get go. Impressive.
Wendell, have my Linux babies.
Just did every flippin' entry I could! Fingers crossed. I'd so so SO love to dive into this!
I'm not running RX Vega at all, but I've been using M-Bab's Kernel which has AMD's DC stack & also has the Firmware Binaries from GitHub for testing. I've also been using Padoka's Mesa PPA. I've been playing and testing things out for a good while now. Only real problem I've run into have to do with suspending and resuming, but yes, the open source AMDGPU driver in its entirety is really nice - all the hard work is really shining through. I can't ever remember a time where it's been this much of a breeze in setting up ATi/AMD graphics hardware either (ATi/AMD graphics in linux has always been more... "problematic" for getting working then getting nVidia's binary blob working - least that's been my experience from the early 00's when I first got into Linux). Hopefully the latest pull request for AMD's DC stack can be approved. Also nice to see that RADV is now considered Vulcan compliant (at least for the Radeon R9 285).
Thanks for the update.
thanks for all the awesome info. please keep up the good work. im SUPER STOKED that there are more and more games coming out for linux... this is so awesome!
Please, please do more basic stuff on Linux. I know many things but I always learn something new.
The African name is pronounced oooh boontoo, not ooh bun too. I run X-Plane 10 and 11 and FlightGear on Ubuntu, now just upgraded to 17.10 beta two nights ago. I only use flight simulators, and use an old Gigabyte AMD Radeon R9 280X, and XP runs perfectly with the opensource Gallium drivers. Even though X-Plane does not support Gallium. And I am also experiencing better benchmarking with the Gallium driver to a equivalent nVidia I tested.
I had to use the force run mode to get X-Plane to work with the AMD card, up to Ubuntu 17.04, but since 17.10 I can run it straight off the default icons.
Nice video, thanks
I use gentoo not arch, but the same principal tends to apply. In my experience, these distros make everything much harder, except the boarderline impossible stuff, which while still difficult is exponentially easier.
Great stuff Wendell, keep it up!
Exciting stuff.
Thank you for your hard work and research!
I looked at that buttons on your desk and couldn't figure out why a Linux geek like Wendell would use a dektop calculator before I realised it's a stream deck for scene switching :D
Re Nvida closed source vs AMD open source drivers: About one or two months ago I again tried to run Dying Light on AMDGPU opensource drivers. To my surprise, the game finally started even though it took ages. I was in 1080p and set the graphics options to the maximum possible. My even bigger surprise was, when the 1st mission ("Parkour training") ran in 80 to 110 fps! On a 2GB Radeon HD7870 GPU!!! Unfortunately as of the 2nd mission the framerate dropped to unplayable 7 to 14 - that still must have been some bug and I don't know if it's fixed yet (I bet it's not). However, I then installed a 3GB GTX 1060 and closed source drivers, running the same game settings. I was surprised to see the framerates at significantly lower levels (around 50 to 90) in the Parkour Training mission when compared to the old HD7870. Also, the Radeon experience was much smoother and if the issues plaguing the amdgpu/DyingLight would get fixed finally it would definitely be the better choice for that game. This led to a conclusion which again was a surprise to me: Nvidia's closed source drivers for Linux may be OK (everything works), but a far stretch from excellent. I'd like to add that the archaic HD 7870 performs in Rust also realtively well when compared to the GTX 1060...
Great video. Keep up the good work.
I went through the trouble. It took a whole week but I was also VERY busy and only spent 2-3 hours every evening. Situation improved somewhat since launch, mainly because of the DC stack in the kernel(s) (torvald‘s and the staging) and I am pretty stoked about 4.15. I ultimately let it be and reinstalled a headless Debian because I only use that thing for my own Physics simulations anyways.
Been using Ubuntu for the past 3 years...on 2012 tech. I am currently on 16.04 and am loving it. The new Gallium driver for AMD cards is the tits! I can run Skyrim on ultra settings at 60fps on a AMD-5400k OCD at 4.3ghz with a RX460.
Shawn Walker What is a 5400k?
Thank you for not unleashing on the un-initiated :)
That guy on the wallpaper at the beginning looks awfully familiar. lol Wouldn't be surprised if Wendell invented time machine )))
Wendell is not part of the PC Master Race anymore.
He's either a Prophet or a PC GOD
I could swear RotTR runs faster on Linux/Vulkan than on Windows DX11/12. I have an old FX-4100 with a GTX-1030 and play RotTR on Linux (Ubuntu 17.10, Nvidia 396.18) and god I was blown away by the gaming performance. My benchmark video: th-cam.com/video/1gVyxjjfT-o/w-d-xo.html
Its good to know wendell is getting dem subs. Good luck moving forward. 😎
Peace :-)
Thx 4 this movie
"They said, it would never happen... They said, it couldn't be done... But in 2018, AMD are back - with a vengeance!"
I m been using amd since a year ago and don' t regret it all. with the amdgpu driver on linux i played all the games i need.
Yay! A new video. Fascinating content, and I'd love to have tutorials on Vega drivers. What about Wayland instead of x?
Hey man running a Ryzen 7 1700X on a Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 5 with a RX 580. I could free up a SSD to do some kind of testing if you point me in the right direction.
Hey Wendell, could you make a Video that's specific about SR-IOV? Like what Hardware is compatible/usable and some use cases and maybe even how to set it up? I would really appreciate it. Thank you for being you and doing all that Linux stuff.
You, Sir, have a new subscriber.
Nvidia drivers for Linux are a nightmare. Nouveau isn't perfect yet, and it used to break all the time with Unity. With Gnome it's working better.
maybe a weird place to ask this, and i've been watchin your news show, so if i somehow missed it....shame on me, but what do you guys think of the librem 5 phone? and would ya do a shoutout? that sucker needs to happen.
will buy it definitely
Congratulations on the videos.
I really like Linux and I like to play a lot, I'm currently creating little content about Linux, because I'm starting now, but I will create more.
Excellent info...Thanks for the very informative video.
What laptop are you using? It looks like its got a camera on the back and an NES skin.
For me, this video was an enlightening glimpse into a side of the Linux culture that I normally have no contact with. Man, writing drivers is so baffling and mysterious to me. Who has time to work on that? For free??
May I ask what you don't like about caffe? What would you recommend? (I am using caffe for deep learning on my theasis and it gives very nice results)
ahhh, Arch, the bleeding-edge distro. Things update so fast, you couldn't wait a whole day without getting the message "Your system is up to date."
sneakeyboard I update my Arch system 2-3 times a week. And the current install is 3-4 years old now.
Vega64 is faster than 1080ti on the new forza game, techspot has an article on it,
www.techspot.com/news/71209-amd-vega-64-burns-past-gtx-1080-ti.html
phillip martin uh, definitely not one CPU thread, bro. Else, no way it's running on 8 1GHz console cores..
It's a CPU bottleneck. 1080Ti generally is 20-30% faster in 99% of games.
Forza 7 pc can literally run 32 threads as it used dx12. TSO is a dx9 game. Of course it will only utilize 1-2 threads. All Bethesda games are shit like that. Comparing a dx9 game to a dx12 game is like comparing ps4 pro vs xbox one x.
So how is the gpu compute performance?(openCL, vulkan)
Just curious, the last AMD card I bought with consideration for GPU compute, doesn't currently have any Linux driver support for compute, no issues with display graphics but I didn't need a $700 Pitcairn Firepro for watching some videos. (at the time of purchase I was using it with dual boot and Autocad rendering on win7 so I kept the card. It's GCN v1.0. the proprietary drivers are no longer viable for that chip series, and the open source haven't managed to get compatibility back that far, GCN v2.0 is supported, and v1.1 is experimental)
Hell yes Arch community! Might just have to get me some Vega.
What is that black numpad (?) keyboard that Wendell is using? Is that connected via bluetooth?
Hi, I was wondering if a Ryzen R5 1600 + RX 580 8 GB is a perfect coupling now for GNU/Linux. Since the 4.13 and 17.2 kernels were released
what do you think about it?
That is good combo, I had an rx 480 and doing fine since year ago, the new 580 isn' t change that much!
Is that a TV behind you showing Civ IV? Which one is it?
Can you guys do a vega64/1080ti/linux benchmark video please. Thanks
Wendell the Wise, teaching us as usual. xD
Wendell, can you point me in the direction of a good guide to getting into linux and getting it installed and to a stable state. I'm looking to transition my home server that is running windows 7 to a linux kernel. Or maybe you could do a video series of getting ubuntu going on an older amd based desktop computer.
I don't understand how this is possible. Would you consider a video explaining the difference between Linux and Windows that creates this difference? Or is it that the 1080ti operates so bad under Linux and because of that the Vega 64 beats it?
7 months later how does Vega 64 stack up to the 1080ti?
Why did you end the giveaway so soon ? :( I mean not even a week has been passed since you announced it.. :( Anyways I hope that the winners enjoys his prize :) Also where is the link on the article about the open source graphics stack?
More Linux power to ya! I'm personally on MacOS, but content appreciated!
And i been doin alot of notes taking... Niiiice..
Does someone know what happened to the livestreaming with Wendell and Bryan Lunduke on the 24 hour Lunduke thon?
Wendell, I heard you telling Bryan about this video on the livestreaming.
keep on Wendell, the Dark Knight within W3C ha ha ha !!!
Greetings from Chiapas, Mexico.
I have an AMD FX-60 setup. Yes, it's old. I've had various Linux distros like Debian, Gentoo and Ubuntu on it over the years. I tried to bit a somewhat modern 64-bit Windows on it, but since the chip doesn't support hardware encryption I can't run anything modern like Windows 8.1 or 10, 64-bit. I do have 4GBs of RAM and 64-bit just runs nice on that old setup. That said, is a modern Debian or Ubuntu a good distro to run on old hardware like that? I removed my old 4770s GPUs and replaced them with a 6870. Totally overkill but at least that single card is quiet and can run 1440p respectfully. I've been out of the Linux loop and tinkering for quite some time and just want a stable system that works and plays my old Source games like LFD2 and things like that. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. That said. I'm really stoked on building a Threadripper and Vega system since AMD is at least competitive again. Maybe something like that might give me the incentive to tinker with builds but as of now I just need a working system that is supported and works on my old classic :)
Are you posting these videos to lbry.io? It's a distrubuted content network and open source free software. I understand it's a bit of work to set up, but then it will pull your videos directly from youtube it you want. Just a thought.
Has anything improved as of August 27, 2018 ? Are we almost there yet ?? I can't decide on what to invest my money and time in ? OpenSuSE Tumbleweed, Fedora Rawhide, Mageia Cauldron ( 7 ), but today I am using Siduction ( Debian Buster ) with kernel 4.18.0. I am not enough of a Linux nerd to keep up with it all, and I am losing my ability to find spare time. The realities of life ( job and family ) are just killing me.
Nvidia drivers have always sucked in Linux.. How’s this a surprise? I’m running an RX470 on Debian got no issue with it since day one.. I don’t do much gaming but games like Ballistic Overkill and Rocket League they run just fine! Over 70+ fps all the time..
Actually for many many years only nvidia had a usable linux driver with amd/ati lacking behind quite a bit
+3GenGames
If you have an Optimus Laptop (Intel+Nvidia), you don't even get any official support from Nvidia...
I bought one because I wanted to game on my laptop. I still get better performance using the Nvidia GPU than the Intel GPU, but it's a PITA to setup... Knowing what I know now, I would say the same thing...
Ok, My own experience on Nvidia+Linux is not even close to my current setup with AMD.. and this is my very first time that I have an AMD card since they bought ATI.. besides a small netbook with an APU So yeaaars without AMD on my rig.. I’ve never been team red on GPU’s.. But now that I only use Linux I wanted to give it a try.. And oh boy it feels good not having to deal with updates, broken dependencies, tearing, pixelations, and system crashes.. out of the box.. From my Amazon box to my MB that was it.. 😏
Test TestLast and on a distro like Mint XFCE AMD is still pain in the ass with the Nvidia drivers being able to be installed in just a few simple clicks that even my aunt in her 70's could do. I love AMD, and have used them for years, but you are 100% correct on Nividia being the way to go for so long on Linux.
Impressive news, Wendell.
But now that you told us the RX Vega 64 beats the 1080Ti (which is insane to imagine), why did you choose the B350 over another chipset that's more friendly towards gpu-passthrough?
Hah, this ALMOST makes me sad I'm not buying Vega for my upcoming TR4 build. At the very least, the cards I scrounged are still team Red so it's all good
go Arch!
Would love to see a 2020 revisit.
I wish AMD / ATI would open source , still a huge performance difference , but the opensource is more stable
I think this is a no wonder since AMD parts are usually better than Nvidia in linux whether with propiertary or open source drivers in use.
On one side note, that computer do seem to have plenty of room for a giant CPU cooler for maximum cooling.
Oh well I do feel like adding a lot of extra on this comment in particular but have you even tried any experimentation on Debian though? It does have some things in common with Ubuntu but not straight off compatible since they are only similar with a little difference in between.
Hey, I'm running mint 18.2 and when im watching youtube videos my screen flickers every 3 to 4 seconds. Please help, and i tried changing kernel with no luck
Hi, nice video, have you ever done a video about dual band wi-fi adapters on Linux?
AMD does not have long to get their Linux drivers polished for the Radeon Pro WX 9100 and Radeon Pro SSG cards that are supposed to work on Linux.
Finally, someone who uses htop instead of top...lol
seouljah760 top is a mess to see
Heyyo, heh video intro when your ancestor shows up on a screen in the background on the game Civilization :)
Oh that's not good, Summit Ridge is one thing for not having the IOMMU shit working but ThreadRipper is really something you a likely to buy for doing VM's due to the 64 PCIe lanes.
Would love to help, but my coding is still too far from being able to contribute. Can run some benches and post how to got to make stuff work. But Gpu is somewhat old.
Please more linux content!!!!
Whats the deal atm with Vega 64 on Linux? Just bought a Vega 64 Nitro+ and upgraded from RX470, was using the open source AMDGPU drivers with my RX470 with no issues but with the Vega 64 it severely stutters/lags, even at idle when moving cursor around, literally all the time. No drivers issues on Windows, so its not the card. Using Linux Mint 18.1. I have two monitors, 1440p connected by display port, and 1080p one via HDMI and the 1080p one is not recognised at all and get an error that says something like "VGA modes not compatable" sorry cannot remember the exact error message, swapped cards back for time being.
I've had so many fucking issues with NVIDIA it's giving me a stroke, Nouveau (The open source drivers) Have very 'shaky' support for maxwell, where, you update - then the system fails to boot with an error message along the lines of "POINTER TO FLAT TABLE INVALID" or some other shit, Nvidias proprietary garbage has the issue of barely support jack shit, such as Wayland and any kind of usable configuration. Performance is also Terrible with extremely unstable framerate on factory clock. I've tested Windows 10 UEFI and none of these Issues are present, I've also had many problems with Nvidias BS anti-Virtual machine tactics where they find strings that match 'KVM', then the driver turns off and you can't use the graphics card.
Regarding GPU passthrough, does anyone know if there is any progress on the annoying npt bug thing?
at least you're not dealing with Nvidia's bullshit, otherwise, 'probably', bug fixes on these things take a while as they are rather niche
AMD out performs Nvidia on Macs as well I wonder if it has to do with the Unix & Unix-like system being able to take advantage of the AMD GPUs over Nvidia????
I would love to hear more about vulcan
Vulcan was going to be on linux right? If all the awesome games i love could run on linux i'd switch yesterday. Really it makes me sad that I'm so reliant on an operating system I honestly don't like.
At least I don't have to use apple? ha, i don't know enough about it to say i guess. Seems like they've been falling behind lately though.
oh sorry i meant to spell that Vulkan. ahem.
the open source AMD vulkan stack (radv) is very, very young. Unlike the rest of amdgpu, it's not directly receiving support from AMD. It was only considered compliant by the developers (afaik still not certified by khronos) in May.
it's possible Vulkan will be dropped in favor of DX12 support.. sucks for any non-MS platform
Vulkan will be and is already a thing on Linux
Vulkan will not be dropped, it's better than DX12 and can support more systems besides windows 10.
I know what I would support if I wanted to reach as many gamers as possible.
Which distro is best for gaming i have been using Mint 18.2 and fps is about 80% worse than windows 10 how do i get great fps on linux.
Does anyone know what kind of laptop he's using in the beginning of this video? i've never seen one like it.
We need more videos!
Level1Linux: What camera do you use? it's very clear and sharp
OOH OOH I AM a recent CS Graduate who is very interested in theses sorts of things. How do I start to help?
If you Google "good man", you get a picture of Wendell. I'm sure of it!
Wendell Roosevelt in the background
Man I hope I win that machine, my fx-8350 build is really getting long in the tooth.
Can you point me in the right direction to take a look into the driver process that's going on? I'm in computer science and am really interested in seeing the process because I'm not at the point where I'd be comfortable contributing but I'd like to see someone working on it to know what to expect when I am capable in the future.
That thanklessness is mostly due to the fact that there are no credits like in the movies. Maybe the demo scene guys can come up with a screen saver.
OT: Anybody knows an app for windows that takes the URL that is normally send to the default browser and sends it to a clipboard manager that is well integrated into the notification area of windows? Or even better can be configured for the notification area ANDOR the pinned apps area?
Please do a guide for the clueless. I have vega and would like the screen to update UI more then once a second, obviously I've failed in my attempts so far. Last I heard it'd be January before 'it just works' on os install