Consciousness Without Brain Activity: Near Death Experiences - Dr. Bruce Greyson
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- The United Nations, New York - September 11, 2008
Beyond the Mind-Body Problem: New Paradigms in the Science of Consciousness
An excerpt of Bruce Greyson, MD, PhD, from the panel discussion "Beyond the Brain: The Experiential Implications of Neurotheology", speaking about how the brain does not equal the mind, and how near death experiences can contribute to knowledge about the mind-body connection.
For more information about the symposium, visit:
www.nourfoundation.com/mind-bo... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I love it when intelligent, credited leaders in sciences start talking about the things beyond Newtonian physics. This guy is Brilliant!
I saw some evidence of this with my own father. He suffered from Alzheimer's and during the last few months of his life was unable to communicate with us. On the last day of his life, my family sat in the facility's cafeteria, trying to coax him to accept a few spoons of food. As my sister offered him a spoon of mashed potatoes I could see him undergo a physical reaction, and, in a voice far clearer than he had in months, he shook his head and said, " I said no, and I mean no" to her offer of food. A few minutes after we took him back to his room, Dad was looking intently at me, his eyes followed my movements. From somewhere within him, he once again spoke clearly to me as he said, "It won't be long now." There were no more words and he died about four hours later. It was comforting to me to see Dad with a gentle smile on his face as he lay on his deathbed. I am convinced that his clarity had something to do with connection to some kind of Consciousness.
yep ;-(
+Toni Brown & Ed Munson - Things ended well for him. In his spirit "he knew" 1) it was almost time 2) he will be going to another realm and 3) he welcomed this event/transition. He was not afraid of ...
Ben Str not afraid what? life.
Ben Str I think you are right, Ben Str. I also remember that Dad had a little smile on his face that I saw so often in olden times. I think that may have been his last clue that all is well.
I worked for years with dementia and this would occasionally happen. I was looking after a close family friend and she just announced one day she is done. For the next 24 hours she spoke as she did beside dementia.
I was in a near death car accident and can remember my mind leaving my body. I believe our bodies are simply vessels we inhabit. They die but consciousness does not.
I have purposely left my body many times. I know this sounds crazy to most but it's the truth. I'm not crazy either.
@@robinmead5826Wow, can u tell more about it?
I thoroughly enjoyed his take on questioning the logic we live through. Too often anything that appears even remotely 'supernatural' is dismissed. The flaw here is that if we classify something as 'supernatural' per-se, we reject the possibility of this 'supernatural' being 'natural'. There is no such thing as 'supernatural', because if something exists it is necessarily natural.
We seriously need to reconsider the ancient materialistic paradigm we are taught to believe in. Keep an open mind.
My dad had Alzheimer’s disease. 3 weeks before he died he knew I was his daughter.
This was completely down to what he was putting into his body
I'm in med school and have talked to multiple surgeons, in fact, they always started the topic of consciousness during surgeries. They all reported multiple examples of people in detail describing what happened to them during surgery, even though there was no measurable brain activity. Most said they saw the room from above, very brightly, surrounded by darkness, and saw who was next to them, what they did, etc. But it's a dreamy, semi-conscious feeling. They weren't aware of it happening.
This will be century that materialism dies :)
The breath of fresh air, the logic, the intelligence, the love on this page renews one's hope for the better future and makes one more firmly resolved, more determined to carry on with the mission. Peace and light to all of you.
I love what he said about our way of thinking being different from the rest of the world in something having to be true or false, but in other cultures something can be both true and false. This is enlightening and gives me a new way of thinking about some issues on a different level.
Our consciousness activates our brain; our brain does not activate our consciousness. The brain is the grey matter hard drive waiting for the electricity of the soul
The evidence is overwhelming , but trying to convince anyone that Consciousness and the Mind is only using the the Body and Brain as a Vehicle for the purpose of experiencing Physical life is almost impossible . People love to stick to their beliefs and they have no idea what they are missing out on . You know the Brain is in the skull , you know the heart is in your chest , where is the Mind ?? Believing that the brain produces the Mind and Consciousness is almost laughable , but the Scientists continue to try to prove the impossible . Have a blessed New Year Eddie
Eddie Knight I think most people refuse to believe because they fear what they do not know.
I think many people refuse to believe it because the implications make theology all the more plausible, As a Christian theist I think The idea of God makes people uncomfortable, people fear being judged, no one wants to be told how to live, which is what many think the Bible does , however adopting a lifestyle way of living is not being told how to live it’s you choosing how to live. I choose to live this lifestyle I wasn’t forced. These vids are great but very few will ever truly consider what is being said here.
"Believing that the brain produces the Mind and Consciousness is almost laughable"
- Where was your mind and consciousness 200 years ago then ? What were you aware of 200 years ago ? What were you thinking 200 years ago ?
Furthermore, considering that *physical* inputs such as alcohol, drugs etc. can influence and even nullify consciousness, how can that support a non-physical consciousness ?
We need to make it compulsory people try 5-meo-dmt then we won’t have so many closed minded people
Reminds me of a point raised by a buddhist monk (I can't remember exactly who it was) when conversing with a materialist, skeptical of some of the buddhist concepts of mind. The materialist said, "You would have no consciousness without a brain" to which the monk replied lightly, "That brain won't work without mind!"
I find it particularly convincing when it is the medical professionals who are reporting their experiences with patients who have had NDEs. It's one thing to hear a "supernatural" story from an NDE patient (which I also find compelling). But when patients come into the hospital comatose, and later tell the doctors and nurses things they shouldn't know - because they were comatose at the time - it's hard not to believe that consciousness is non-local (unless you're a materialist dogmatist).
I feel lucky to be alive in the time that this might happen.
Even though I trust 100% the scientific method, I think that the reductionist approach, very common to many scientists, cannot explain everything.
Whenever something new appears not to be easily explained by using the known scientific paradigms, things should be studied separately even though they might appear as being contradictory with known scientific theories.
Anyone who developes a siddhi of out of body experiences and non-locale conciousness can experience for themselves the nature of needing to transcend thought process and physical limitations. Having stood outside my own body (we don't own them actually) I was 200% more awake and more aware than you would be right now reading this.
In anicient Hindu texts all this mentioned and answered they classify brain and mind into so many different parts.. so much deep knowledge is explained there..
I find this sort of stuff very fascinating. That would be great if in the future, it was proven 100%. At present, materialist fanatics will NOT concede whatsoever that our consciousness can survive the physical death.
+Mary Patterson Fanatics is the proper word for it. While I remain a skeptic, albeit one that has explored various mental worlds, to deny the experience of hundreds is mere ignorance. I'm not saying lets believe in fairies, necessarily, but dreams, ESP and telepathy, and spirits are all plausible, and I think it is equally ignorant to completely deny this as it is to believe that god planted the dinosaurs.
+EyesofNeurosis - you don't need to believe God planted the dinosaurs. Get to the place where you can believe we are spirits.
Ben Str dinosaurs is illuminati m8 they maket lie for power to take over the world when illuminati rely science to brainwashed mother earth planet then humanity laugh with endless corruption of happiness that will lead to extinction
I believe in consciousness after death for this mere fact: I love my boyfriend. If there was another personality in him other than that he has, I would not love him. I don't love him for his body, but who he is inside (perhaps his soul). That's why I believe in more than what we are as humans.
6:45 Doctors are usually very steadfast and rigid in their beliefs. They push back on anything that challenges their paradigm. It is the rare doctor that seeks alternative solutions to problems. What they are told in medical school or from drug reps is gospel. Good video !!
Who said 3%? I've heard figures ranging from 10-20% from near death experience researchers. It's becoming far more common now that medical science has advanced, because more people come back alive from situations that would have killed them in the past.
I've tried to explain to my doctor an obe I had many years ago during surgery, how I was observing the surgery, heard the conversation during this, etc., my doctor at the time was shocked, even though at first he said it was due to the ketamine, but finally, he admitted that there was more to it than meets the eye, my current doctor insists I simply had a ketamine experience, you would think by now, a doctor would be a bit more open to these experiences
The brain is an interface unit between body and consciousness. Consciousness programs the brain. I would be most happy to participate in consciousness studies. When one's thoughts have ended in stillness the brain still functions.
Consciousness= soul = spirit proven more than 2000 years ago histories and so on
This is a very good explanation of why the stringent practices of science is detrimental to progress. Yes, I know why the scientific method is used, but science needs to find a way abolish old models that don't allow for non-materialistic study. Or they can go on their merry way and we, the people who experience, are the experts in the field. In that case, science has no right to dispute the claims they know nothing about and want to know nothing about.
He says Dualism has as many problems as Materialism, but he didn't mention Idealism.
Great talk an inteligent delivery looks good for the future to enlighten mankind, to crush materialistic thinking. There is now some light in a dark world thank you for your elevated thought Derek
This man is brilliant !
i first time i watched this video, i had an ineffable surge of energy coarse through every inch of my body to the point where i had to shake it off because it was so intense.... lol. this video was the just the tip of the iceberg/starting point of these experiences.. yes my friends, there is a lot more going on than meets the eye...
Dr Bruce is genius. I love this knowledge, and this lead us to Sri maharaj IAM, eckhart tolle and many other mystics And enlightened people said and are saying
The brain is simply a medium for our soul
My search also going on ...I m on the way 😍
Thankyou, I know what you are speaking about!
Fantastic talk summing up contemporary research into the nature of consciousness very concisely.
I particularly liked the communication aspect and it's being limited by 'words'. I've often wondered what type of 'language' people deaf from birth think in. After all, if you happen to be an English speaker you think in English, Thai-Thai, and so on. Anyone know?
What an excellent speaker! Thank you for the information you presented!
That was brilliant.
They might. NDE experiencers are often given a choice to forget that they had the experience. It might otherwise be too painful to go back into the human body knowing what they left behind. It's the same reason why babies don't remember being on the other side either. I think the fact that 15% consistently do remember such experiences is quite amazing.
@NourFoundation the explanation is very simple. Human kind does have a soul though; many are not aware of this fact, and this is mankind's constraint. We are all soon to have the veil lifted. Thanks for the video, paradigms need to be challenged.
Thoughtfull discussion about "logic" at the end
Awesome. Thank you
I must thank you sincerely for the kind favor done, since certain ideas need to be disseminated beyond close doors. these ideas challenge our materialistic approaches and dominant theories of sciences and religions.
@paisleyyama. The idea was that ideological differences are the cause of many of the world's conflicts, and that anything which can be done to help bring about a consensus of understanding amongst us should be encouraged. I think some of the speakers at the conference (particularly Schwartz) also felt that the active resistance they face from the some of the materialist scientific community has hampered their ability to do research, and should be considered an issue of international importance.
Very interesting stuff
I will attempt to explain something that could be very long winded, but do my best to keep it short.
Regarding NDE's not being able to find the words to describe their experience. There is the same problem when it comes down to the people who wrote in the Bible. Erik Van dynakin ( misspelled )mentioned in his book' Chariot of the gods ' about Ezekiel trying to explain what he saw, in the only words available to him at the time. He described intentionally or not , "A spacecraft "
What i am trying to say is many facts in the bible do seem unbelievable for this reason.
I can see similarities when reading the accounts of peoples experience while outside their bodies.
So we must be forgiving when listening to things that may seem far fetched. An example might be Eban Alexander having a ride on a butterfly. Have you ever tried to explain a dream you had
When you say "i can;t explain it properly ?
Keep up the good work trying to convince people this is real. Thanks for the vid.
Nice.
Quite possibly that the conciousness shifts to another higher dimention as we die....in 5 th dimention for example we will become completely aware of our existance, be free and meet others who have died.,
Thank you very much for this very interesting I subbed.
It may be that where we go astray in trying to figure these things out is by identifying with/as the body-mind. When we thus limit ourselves, we must find the origin of consciousness within the 3D form. What if that's only a partial truth?
We are awareness, we are consciousness temporarily taking form, wearing the body-mind as our costume for our 3D role. Just as the people we see on the tv screen are not trapped in the machine, consciousness is not limited to the form. It functions *through* the form.
We don't have to believe in God or be religious to recognize the existence of consciousness, of the broader awareness in which all exists: the One. Our issue, here, is that all that we know is largely nonsense built upon false foundations, wrong assumptions.
The teaching in the East regarding emptiness has much - MUCH - to offer. Only as we empty ourselves for a time, setting aside all beliefs, attitudes, & expectations can we come into that deeper awareness that's always been there, just not noticed.
*Our beliefs block the way.* It's not the case that we haven't been told:
_"What people believe prevails over the truth,"_ according to Sophocles.
_“I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.”_
― Plato, The Republic
_“We can know only that we know nothing. And that is the highest degree of human wisdom.”_
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace
_“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”_
― Socrates
_“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”_
― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
_“There are no facts, only interpretations.”_
― Friedrich Nietzsche
~♥~
Yes, we have minds that existed before birth, incarnate into physical bodies, than leave after death. I'm surprised this isn't known by many people seeing how not only has this subject been covered in depth for decades on TV, books, and internet sites, but it's also been part of every religion for the last 5000+ years. Another angle is past life memories, and some of the strange physical birth phenomena associated with that, such as in this fascinating video: watch?v=YLKT5UsKoqM
I believe the brain is an interface that converts universal macro consciousness into individuated units of micro consciousness in the physical plane. By doing this, these individuated units can interact with each other & universal consciousness is able to refine itself, lowering its entropy. When we die consciousness doesn't go anywhere because it doesn't have a physical location. It simply reverts to its non-dual state as an aspect of universal consciousness (cont)...
Can anyone explain to me why some people see nothing at NDE saying they had no consciousness, while others had some sort of feeling
very good to see that these things are being heavily discussed. and I am very happy that the scientists are looking at the hindu logic system and the hindu phylosophy of life and death as well. they need to verify all the systems. as far as I am concerned. I know a thing or two about it from experience. consciousness is weightless floating thing that has the mind and can see. it can't feel or smell or hear. i think for those it uses the body. I think its evolution of a different kind (continued)
Interesting stuff.
In some ways l think more clearly after numbing my frontal cortex with narcotic substances or alcohol. This is seemingly due to the creativity this induces which lends itself to increased problem solving, especially around practical tasks. I wish l could do it every day but it really does only appear to work when done occasionally which is rather a bore because l have an addictive personality, for obvious reasons.
You are clearly right with what you are saying. If this reality has any value than it is the value of the brave who take it as it is. If we produce this reality with our minds, we do it for a reason. The reason is to learn and to joine it. When you begin to discover the essence of the game, it seems just like these computer games in which you collect items. We are here to collect experiences and gain from them!! If they make you think,you win! What are we capable of?Why are they so afraid of us?
think outside of the box to free your consciousness then?
love his speech, congratulations dr
@11:40 Yes, the brain is not producing thoughts it is receiving thought or limiting it in some way.
The name of the man on the right is Elie During.
The title is what I have been looking for °-°
The ancient greeks had no word for blue and it is thought that perhaps blue didn't exist in ancient greece. We invented blue.Like Einstein said "observable facts alone do not create theory.In fact the opposite is true.It is theory that allows us to see the world".
On another note as an osteopath I notice a similar problem as described by Dr Greyson by patients trying to explain their pain.Words like sharp or aching very often are poor approximations to their experience, which is complex and embodied and therefore not open to wording it.
Then they must be stupid...the sky is blue the sea can also be blue, they used lapis lazuli a (blue gemstone) and blue glass in their jewelries, they used blue cloth in their clothing and a lot of Europeans have blue eyes and they didn't have a word for blue?
Blue sky?
Great!
According to many spiritual teachers there is only one being, which some call God. Therefore there is only one spirit which individuates itself into an infinite number of souls. The soul is God expressing in miniaturized form, a microcosm of God. The soul incarnates in physical bodies over and over again and the part of it's consciousness that becomes a human personality undergoes a state of forgetfulness. When we die our consciousness expands and also remembers what was forgotten.
Beyond natural is all super-natural.
Super position of particles etc, supernatural doesn't have to be religion.
This is interesting. As a person that is interested with life extension if this is possible which it very well might be then this would make a mind uploading process all the more easier. The thing is that if it is created by signals from the brain the feasible concept would be to gradually replace parts of the brain while keeping a continual signal going amidst artificial neurons. But if it's not the brain nor is it spawned from the brain like this video implies then you can simply move the immaterial mind over to a new one as easy as one two three. The real challenge would be because the mind according to this theory is immaterial would mean that it would eventually leave to a higher dimension as it would be without a vessel to inhabit meaning another vessel would have to be made for the mind to possess hence a new body for the upload. A wired system though can move the immaterial to another body. Really interesting video.
Not one or the other but both, influenced by something beyond.
We can "tap into" for intuition and guidance.
We can control things without touching them. In fact we do it all the time! Even the act of raising a hand implies that some non-material intuition that we call 'free will' causes a chain reaction that has control over matter. Where this free will comes from is a total mystery. And so is conscious experience in general. But whatever it is, it seems to be real. I tend to lean towards the Bohmian hypothesis of some type of implicate order where the observable (explicate) universe originates from.
Please cite these "cases."
want a heaven and to go back and experience an eternal amount of view points.
Didn't you listen to the video? He said that scientists are very agressive towards researching/exploring near death experiences, and that it's the physicians/doctors who are more open to it.
So most likely it will be proved by physicians and scientists will arrive later to the party.
The explanatory gap will not be fulfilled by idealism OR physicalism.
It will be fluffed over by accepting the ontology of conscious experience.
Consciousness and determinism are correlated.
He means that the brain is not the sole producer of thought, but that thought comes from a mind which can be seperate from the brain. I don't see why this conflicts with the idea of telepathy. It make more sense.
Have you read the book; are you aware of the strength of the evidence?
@11:40 - "Brain is not producing thought". How does one explain telepathy? If I'm thinking of something and my wife speaks exactly the same thing (which happens a lot btw), isn't that something like my brain is transmitting that thought?
Were are the documented cases? Who has the data, are they on pub med? Who can give me the details, i would greatly appreciate this. full papers if i could.
…. to use the TV analogy again, a broken TV can no longer receive the signal but the signal is still there. When we die our brain no longer receives consciousness and therefore our experience of physical life dissolves, but consciousness persists.
Okay this is actually interesting. I'm still very skeptical and can not understand how "Consciousness" Can SEE what the doctor does after the brain is temporarily dead. Do we have minds that are not connected to the body? Many issues that can have all sorts of answers, but again this was an interesting thought.
@paisleyyama: I agree, this is important stuff. I'm guessing they discussed it here for publicity reasons. The more attention they draw to this subject the better.
if we could just access our mind we could do things beyond the power of our brain
such as controlling things without even touching them... our mind is a force and if we can access that force not only will we be able to move things we may even be able to fly but our brain limits that from happening
Latest research shows brain hyperactivity (electrical) near death.
..like a computer, programmed by our 'mind/soul?' as well as the brain's perception and interpretations of observations, interactions, etc., all for some kind of experience?
Once everyone realizes this reality is only temporary it will let people know life is worth living
If neurons just "misfire" at different locations near death, then how is it that a person can put together a RATIONAL sentence near death?
My mom told me that while HER mom was dying (it was just them two in the room), she saw her diseased brother and was calling out to him...and my grandmother had been LEGALLY BLIND FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS by then (when she passed on)...
I am interested also in the topic of God, but it is good that this clip, at least for now, has not yet been littered by comments about deity(ies).
Couldn't have said better myself. :)
Then the soul is a medium for our spirit.
I wouldn't say inhibits it.. perhaps viewing the physical world requires a physical device and to view the metaphysical world requires no such thing.
Fear of the ever after is what keeps people from living in the now.
You only need to keep an open mind and consider the evidence.
Most "Scientists" don't know what Science is. It always amazes me that people who call themselves "scientists" have no idea how Science functions.
Science is Observation based. If you have no Observations to base a Thesis on, you are not employing science.
90% of what is called science is not Science. Evolution is a great example of a collection of anecdotes that is so-called Science. I am still waiting for Empirical Evidence for that myth.
Read the video title. They want to know how people can have consciousness without brain activity ( people are conscious even though they're brain dead ). And if you really listen at what he's saying, you'll notice he'll mention that pacients can describe in detail everything that happens in the room even though they're flatlined.
I hope your not expecting doctors to publish they're research on youtube.
You can type near death studies on google and find what you were asking for.
Like Carl Sagan once said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I am hoping to NDEs being a real thing, I'd like it to be so. But I need strong evidence. Objective evidence.
Mind or spirit or conciousness ..resides under neval point ...I believe when we change our Prana energy it can be move up and down ....99%
Perhaps the brain is like a tuner
If only scientists and anyone really, would listen to what channelled personalities are saying about the nature of reality. The 'Seth' books of Jane Roberts, or the 'Elias' session materials of Mary Ennis. 'He' has been explaining the nature of reality since the late 1990's to the present. All are available online.
Prior to death, the Pineal Gland located in the vertebrate brain releases a significant amount of the psychedelic dimethyltryptamine (DMT)
'crazy idea that brains are involved in thinking' ?
Which came first, the consciousness or the brain?
get it? you get it.
Is no materialistic explanation because the cause of persons is spiritual and unseen.Aproaching to God will result explanations.
Can Someone Answer This:
Based on the science, how do they determine of someone is having total loss of consciousness?
Because it would seem rationally that if it were the case, how could there be accurate memory recall afterwards?
Or is the memory recall just the brain trying to fill in the gap to give a sense of continuity?
Same question with brain shut down - how do they know when it is totally down - and how can someone have any kind of accurate recall from that period of time - as it is suggested in the case of seeing things in the room, or hearing things, and so on?
Let's separate out the myth from the science.
Thanks
LOL, thank you pointing that out, his name and identity will always seem a little different to me now! I wonder if his secret identify for fighting crime is just something like "Joe Smith" by contrast... unless it's Batrobin.