Dominions 5 - Early Age - National Tier List
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Early Age Tier List
I just rerecorded this to fix some of the audio problems :/
Tier List: tiermaker.com/categories/vide...
Timestamps! Thanks to Krom
00:00 INTRODUCTION
07:00 Abysia - Children of Flame
08:40 Agartha - Pale Ones
09:40 Atlantis - Emergence of the Deep Ones
11:40 Berytos - The Phoenix Empire
14:09 Caelum - Eagle Kings
15:06 C'tis - Lizard Kings
15:58 Ermor - New Faith
17:42 Fomoria - The Cursed Ones
19:17 Helheim - Dusk and Death
20:56 Hinnom - Sons of the Fallen
22:48 Kailasa - Rise of the Ape Kings
25:09 Lanka - Land of Demons
26:42 Machaka - Lion Kings
27:37 Marverni - Time of Druids
28:53 Mekone - Brazen Giants
31:09 Mictlan - Reign of Blood
32:58 Niefelheim - Sons of Winter
34:34 Oceania - Coming of the Capricorns
36:14 Pangaea - Age of Revelry
37:44 Pelagia - Pearl Kings
38:54 R'lyeh - Time of Aboleths
40:12 Rus - Sons of Heaven
41:08 Sauromatia - Amazon Queens
41:58 Therodos - Telkhine Spectre
42:42 T'ien Ch'i - Spring and Autumn
44:07 Tir na n'Og - Land of the Ever Young
45:06 Ubar, Kingdom of the Unseen
46:45 Ulm - Enigma of Steel
48:05 Ur - The First City
49:19 Vanheim - Age of Vanir
50:19 Xibalba - Vigil of the Sun
51:10 Yomi - Oni Kings - เกม
Timestamps!
00:00 INTRODUCTION
07:00 Abysia - Children of Flame
08:40 Agartha - Pale Ones
09:40 Atlantis - Emergence of the Deep Ones
11:40 Berytos - The Phoenix Empire
14:09 Caelum - Eagle Kings
15:06 C'tis - Lizard Kings
15:58 Ermor - New Faith
17:42 Fomoria - The Cursed Ones
19:17 Helheim - Dusk and Death
20:56 Hinnom - Sons of the Fallen
22:48 Kailasa - Rise of the Ape Kings
25:09 Lanka - Land of Demons
26:42 Machaka - Lion Kings
27:37 Marverni - Time of Druids
28:53 Mekone - Brazen Giants
31:09 Mictlan - Reign of Blood
32:58 Niefelheim - Sons of Winter
34:34 Oceania - Coming of the Capricorns
36:14 Pangaea - Age of Revelry
37:44 Pelagia - Pearl Kings
38:54 R'lyeh - Time of Aboleths
40:12 Rus - Sons of Heaven
41:08 Sauromatia - Amazon Queens
41:58 Therodos - Telkhine Spectre
42:42 T'ien Ch'i - Spring and Autumn
44:07 Tir na n'Og - Land of the Ever Young
45:06 Ubar, Kingdom of the Unseen
46:45 Ulm - Enigma of Steel
48:05 Ur - The First City
49:19 Vanheim - Age of Vanir
50:19 Xibalba - Vigil of the Sun
51:10 Yomi - Oni Kings
hmmm, there seem to be a mix-up at the beginning
9:40 is Arco not Atlantis,
then Atlantis is at 11:07
And then Berytos is indeed at 11:40, haven't watched passed that point yet though, also Lucid does call Atlantis "Agartha" x)
@@Leafwatcher07 Yeah, lot of confusion going on at the beginning. Thx for the comment.
For whatever reason I can't update my post so here is the updated version.
Timestamps!
00:00 INTRODUCTION
07:00 Abysia - Children of Flame
08:40 Agartha - Pale Ones
09:40 Arcoscephale - Golden Era
11:07 Atlantis - Emergence of the Deep Ones
11:40 Berytos - The Phoenix Empire
14:09 Caelum - Eagle Kings
15:06 C'tis - Lizard Kings
15:58 Ermor - New Faith
17:42 Fomoria - The Cursed Ones
19:17 Helheim - Dusk and Death
20:56 Hinnom - Sons of the Fallen
22:48 Kailasa - Rise of the Ape Kings
25:09 Lanka - Land of Demons
26:42 Machaka - Lion Kings
27:37 Marverni - Time of Druids
28:53 Mekone - Brazen Giants
31:09 Mictlan - Reign of Blood
32:58 Niefelheim - Sons of Winter
34:34 Oceania - Coming of the Capricorns
36:14 Pangaea - Age of Revelry
37:44 Pelagia - Pearl Kings
38:54 R'lyeh - Time of Aboleths
40:12 Rus - Sons of Heaven
41:08 Sauromatia - Amazon Queens
41:58 Therodos - Telkhine Spectre
42:42 T'ien Ch'i - Spring and Autumn
44:07 Tir na n'Og - Land of the Ever Young
45:06 Ubar, Kingdom of the Unseen
46:45 Ulm - Enigma of Steel
48:05 Ur - The First City
49:19 Vanheim - Age of Vanir
50:19 Xibalba - Vigil of the Sun
51:10 Yomi - Oni Kings
"You won as Yomi? I can't imagine which of your boundless options you went with." - Willy Wonka
I feel old for getting this, I haven’t seen a sarcastic Willy Wonka meme in ages
The audio does sound a lot better and im more than happy to watch the video again. Thanks for all your effort Lucid!
ahaha awesome, thank you for redoing this. the last one i couldn't bring myself to watch. this is amazing, you are a blessing to the nerds
When you talk about the meta, I think you can also say that it also depends on the game setup. 1v1, FFA, and disciples games are all going to be different. Having 4 players vs 16, etc. What composition a game of Dominions has is not narrowly defined.
Appreciate that dedication to good work, thanks for the hard work man!
I'd love to see more experienced player's takes on EA Ermor, on the surface they seem really lacking in paths but it seems that they just have the right pieces to do great things
Thanks for going through the trouble of re-recording. It's much more enjoyable now. Also, you could expand the categories for the next one with +/- tiers (e.g. B+ or A-), if the current ones feel too restrictive.
Fun fact, bean sidhe is actually pronounced "banshee"
Not "bean seed"? T_T
I'm surprised to see Abysia higher on the tier list, I'm used to most of the dominions community sniffing their nose at them because of the spells rain and destruction to counter their heat auras and armor respectively. I definitely want to hear more about them, I really like their whole aesthetic and want to play them better (playing Abysia is the closest imo to being Sauron lol).
Yeah I’m really curious about the way Lucid saw Abyssia played that changed his mind.
thanks for the overview!!! SO helpful as a new player :)
Awesome, brother! Thanks for this.
Yes! I was waiting for you to make a tier-list. I wouldn't trust this information from someone else :p
Cheers, really appreciate this!
The dedication man hahaha, you should do an EA Fomoria sometime
The need... to retype it... as Fomoria (only 1 r). I wasn't gonna say anything but I saw other people misspelling it as well.
@@rovsea-3761 Thanks for letting me know :D
cool 😎
any chance we get MA and LA versions?
Still a good video thanks.
Had this game for a while but never really got into it. Playing with a friend now and singleplayer on the side to get into it. That beeing said I'm having a lot of fun with Therodos.
We spoke about some of this on discord: many thanks for going out of your way to talk some of these choices through with us.
I am surprised to see Abysia ranked so high. I would be curious to know what is in the secret sauce. :-)
Good video.
Imho Rus is B - really strong early due to skinshifters, good mid game due to strong air (also good F and N) and really good regular troops and ok late game, not as strong as some overs, but can pull communions, air still good, nature is pretty powerful. I cant see them as C. T-CH and Ubar seems like solid A for me. For later not all can take counters, and in FFA is hard to focus on countering specifically Ubar. Uruk is solid C. If not B. Hats really help alot.
Its all ofc only from my limited experience.
I've had some trouble finding more up to date strategies for EA Mictlan (or really any of them); I can see how they might scale well into the later game (since they are a good blood nation) but much of what I've found is either previous versions of dominions or builds prior to the nerf on quickness. How have people been building them nowadays to justify S tier? Are they still going some sort of hellbless or at least heavy awake? Or do they just go rainbow with scales?
Bloodmicro is superboring, so bloodnations should be one tier lower on avrage as you cannot be bothered with that micro.
Laughs in ma ermor
@@TheGahta Laughs in Magic Explodes
If you have to always tailor your pretender/bless to counter Ubar if they show up in like a 12+ player game, doesn't that make them kinda S tier even if the counter works well?
You should do a National Tier List based on first impressions for dom 6 when it comes out.
Some of the nations that co-exist in the B tier are very much not on the same level. Helheim and TC for example - oooh boy. As always, very enjoyable video though !
So, I guess it pays to be slow in getting to your videos, huh? At least, by the time I got to this one, you had a new version up with better sound! :) Great stuff, anyway! I really enjoyed this. Thanks for _all_ of your videos!
Anyway, I'm definitely going to use this information as I bumble my way through SP games (although, so far, I haven't gotten to EA nations at all, yet - just MA). But I'm curious. Which nations do you have the most _fun_ with? Do you have any favorites? Or which nations do you think would be the most fun to play right now,... maybe because you've got some ideas you didn't use before? (You mentioned Caelum. I suppose that's one of them?)
PS. At 11:06, you said "Agartha" when you meant to say "Atlantis." _Twice!_ Heh, heh. I wouldn't have noticed, since I'm not that familiar with their flags, but you'd just talked about Agartha, so... even _I_ noticed that. No big deal. You never did identify them as Atlantis, but as soon as you said "underwater nation," it was probably obvious that this was just a trick of the tongue. Anyway, I thought I'd mention it.
@generic goose
Thanks! I'll try that sometime (although I never know what to do with blood magic, and I tend to shy away from those nations).
@@Bill_Garthright EA Fomoria is great fun to play in single player I feel, great magic with primary focus on air and death, some water (and no blood), access to Spell Singers which i personally love using later in the game when they can be used to cast really high-end spells without communions. They have both giants and human-sized troops that are pretty solid, can go either bless or scales depending on what you feel like, with item forging and a suitable bless they can field incredible thugs and supercombatants. Their biggest giants who are sacred are also amphibious even so they have early and solid ability to go underwater despite being a land nation... really they can just do so much.
@@Arbaaltheundefeated
Thanks! I made a note of that.
I mostly agree with your list, although I would probably put Lanka in S tir, Demote Hinnom and Xibalba to B tier, while promoting Agartha, C'tis and Helheim to A tier.
I also think Atlantis are B tier and Oceania are C tier, being a water nation are a major advantage IMO.
With how positive you spoke about Atlantis and it ending up in C, I really wonder what's the reasoning.
yeah they should be higher based on that. I've just never seen atlantis do well in a game i think is why i put it there. I know thats a sorta crappy reason though - they should probably be a b at least.
I think Yomi could probably be moved to C tier for one reason: They can only build palisades outside of their cap. This problem disappears if you play them in a disciples game, but otherwise you simply get half the commander points of every other nation. If they got the same primitive forts that Rus gets it would be much better.
I mean if you're playing Yomi and not just using Dai Oni and the free spawn bois I'd say you're doing it wrong.
But that's just me.
@@the_ogre1234 That might work in a small game with like 4 players or something, but for larger games you're going to need some mages to research (and the Dai Oni has an epic -12 inept researcher). Research boosters are only a partial remedy since other nations has those too, and you want to use the gems for Dai Oni gear as well.
@@miniaturecolossus5242 I mean I was talking strictly combat/expansion wise.
Obviously you're gonna want them sorcerers with owl quills and if you can make them imp assistants to help boost for those "End of" spells.
Those witch ladies work pretty good to as hybrid spell casters/researchers albeit you gotta put valuable gems into them to get them decent at either.
@@the_ogre1234 The awake "SC" meme is 100% a trap, just do Bakemono-sho expo
38:40 Spoilers lol
Hah he spoiled his own game and Perun's, game's more about the journey though so no big deal.
What bless are you talking about for EA Abysia burning ones? is it a complete hell bless? Or for you still have some scales left over?
Haven’t played EA abysia much just curious.
I don’t remember all of it, but barkskin is a big part. Lucid got several Melqarts trashed by Abysia in his dom5 Hinnom game.
So I'm bad at the game but I've always been giving Bandar Log some longing looks. I'd really like to be good at that nation? Are you going to do a Middle Age video, or how do you think they compare compared to Kailasa?
Bandar log isn't the worst nation to play, definitely not a tier, probably lower b in my book
@@EndChineseGenocide Yeah I've looked at the guide on Illwiki and needing to bootstrap into blood to compensate for expensive astral summons. I can see there are problems. But it has astral, special (and cool!) summons and goes well with Growth and Luck so it ticks all my boxes.
@@miramosa7768 it is fun. I've played it a bunch in singleplayer
@@miramosa7768 Blood is (probably) a trap, there's a pretty competent Bandar Player named Txoumin on the Immersion discord server (a discord for teaching people Dominions/Hosting Dominions games discord.gg/E33qQ4NwmC ) who's normally down to help out
Bandar Log is *much* better than Kailasa, because Tiger Riders are way better sacreds than Yakshas. Plus, the Rishi is genuinely a fantastic mage, although they aren't thugs unlike Kailasa's cap mages.
I was Ur in the disciples game against Perun. Now, preface, I'm by no means a good or even experienced player, but I'd say C is spot on for them. They're neat, but they get hurt badly by the lack of hats. Their magic isn't actually bad, they have guaranteed A or E 2 recruitable anywhere mages, and a an recruit anywhere W2 with random. But their only really decent troop commander is their cap only big mage, and he's where they fall down a bit. If he were either E or A 2 N 1 with an AWEN random instead of W 2 he'd be a lot better. Your only other 80 leadership commander is -1 inspirational old man in furs. Which just hurts. They're fun, no doubt. But difficulty with good leaders and your troops being size 3 no hatters is just painful.
They are Pangaea without WC, lower mapmove, no freespawn, no seduction, janky stealth, no blood, worse swarm raiding, much worse thugging (morale, def/atk, no bless synergy), slightly overpriced troops. I found hats not mattering too much after expansion (though it's certainly limiting). Mushushu might as well not exist with 1/turn and no summon. Their cool A3 summon needs A3 to summon, and you only have A2. They also need swamps a LOT, while Pan can spam pans in any fort.
Their forts are cool, and free PD and cheap W1 mages for frozen heart spam is nice, but not enough. You can do thunder strike spam, but it's delayed by also needing Conj5 + empowering an A2 or having your pretender with A3 wake up to summon Ugallus to put up storm. I like Enkidu elders personally, 15 gold 1cp 80 leadership commander that increases PD up to 19. You have horn blowers for standard if you are worried about morale.
I might play them in DE though, they get some nice stuff iirc.
Some of my thoughts:
I wouldn’t have found a place for Rl’yeh on a list that only goes to D-tier.
Ubar is definitely not as strong as Na’Ba
Kailasa has objectively the worst starting army in the game
A shrieking female lament tears through the night air, filling you with feelings of dread, of horror and of despair: “It’s pronounced Ban Shi.”
R'lyeh is definitely a more functioning nation then either Oceania or Pelagia by merit of having slave mages alone
I think Berytos is a pretty solid A tier. Blood summons are strong, they have cheap blood hunters, and their brides in waiting are very versatile and powerful leaders that can command living and demonic/ undead alike, bless, and have versatile magic paths for foraging, rituals and evocations. Their other mages would be about average were it not for their ability to sail and command troops, which gives them added versatility. Their national units including the colossi are pretty average, but thr ability to summon Se'ir can give them some very powerful sacreds in easily scalable numbers depending on your blood economy and how many dedicated Scapegoat summoner you commit.
Berytos has a very strong mid to late game thanks to its blood summons, the only thing that keeps it out of S tier imo is that their mediocre national troops may slow your early game expansion somewhat.
They are a strong nation, but they suffer a bit from the xybalba problem - they have an excellent late game (not as good as xybs imo though) but dont have equivalently good early game. So people playing vanheim or pan or something are probably going to knife them with reasonable efficiency in early game.
I actually wonder how many players there are out there...
I feel like you are underestimating ermor
Helheim is the nation with the highest win ratio. So I would say they are way higher than B tier.
Ability to win allskills games doesnt equal effectiveness (though he's def sandbagging on helheim by putting van in A and not them)
@@gonogg Yeah, there's no way Helheim is a whole tier below Vanheim.
@@CantusTropus it very much depends on the map tbh (If Vanheim can abuse sailing to have more mobility than Helheim, its a pretty big edge for Vanheim). The main reason Helheim has such a high win percentage though is because Helherdings are the easiest sacred in the game to expand with, and expansion is where it feels like at least half the games are won/lost at.
I dunno about Mictlan. I can't even beat 2 normal AIs and 1 Difficult AI, non allied, with them. I always run out of money and troops before I even start summoning.
I'd love to see someone's let's play with them. I do have DE installed, I wonder if that changed them at all?
Its a remake?)
Another remake! Boo! :-)
👍
How bout someone do a thug tier list?
new things like an alchemy boosting chicken and buying firegems for 35gold? xD
Praying that I RNG EA in the upcoming tournament and get to absolutely roll 8 players with my B-tier nation
Video starts at 7:00
You mention that it's harder to get a blood economy working in EA due to lower population, but I've heard from reliable sources that the number of blood slaves you capture per hunt depends on site frequency, which goes down a lot in Later ages. Which is more important, do you think?
I have never had trouble pulling in absolutely huge ammount of blood in the late age, but ive struggled a lot more in the early age. Would be interested to see some more rigorous testing though
blood is overrated anyway
@@gonogg Non-national blood is overrated in most cases, yeah, I would agree. But national blood summons tend to be extremely solid. And then there's Storm Demons, which are great if your nation can cast Storm.
@@Arbaaltheundefeated blood is a huge meme, assuming passive play (the normal wait till turn 16 do first war chill for a few turns after that, do second war type of shit that bad players like to do) it can be fine but the opop national spells are all extremely meh ozzies require a bless, are lackluster expect when massed and get cucked hard by storm, all the lanka/monkey nationals are meh save for the life drain/moon blade idiots but hitting a critical mass of any of them tends to be very slow going and they are all pretty bad in small amount iirc, the abysia crossbreeding stuff is decent but its tied to abysia which means its gonna be rough going outside of LA where you get your stupid assassin play, Se'irim require a bless and suffer from zero scaling and a high base slave investment that generally puts them out of reach, Shedim are just better storm demons (which are petty meh), and all of the level 8-9 nationals are total memes if somebody actually starts throwing out lords of Civ and the like then you're liking playing with extremely passive pauls
@@Arbaaltheundefeated also you smell
My only thought against formoria is that their outside of cap mages feel a little meh, like decent but meh and their outside of cap troops seem to be dogcrap, I mean fir bolg are decent but the giants are bad.
Haven’t you heard the word of our lord and savior air 2 mage-priests?
@@grassrootsdictator5701 this was before I had seen the light of magic phase elemental attacks and storm communions.
@@deadsalmon4115 Summon storm power Thunderstrike, amen
@@grassrootsdictator5701 how do you feel about aim?
@@deadsalmon4115 Havn't tested it much myself, but i'm playing fomoria right now so i'll throw it in my artillery batteries and see if there's much improvement.
Abisia is not as strong because in ea they have only fire and blood and a little bit earth and astral, and everybody knows how to counter them evocation2 rain water1 spell water many nation have water 1 and because the spell is soo early everybody has it. I would say abisia is b tier nation!!! And it got nerfed in Dom5 the sacred got more expensive i think from around 50 - 70 gold.
Mfg.Lancelot
You forgot the cold 3 abisya meta
What does a person have to do to make EA abysia good? I always thought it was a trash nation.
An astral earth god so you can forge gear and make horrors and spam them at the enemy
a ttierlist of sacred units is more straight forward.
I would like to qualify Pelagia by pointing out that their troops and sacreds are fantastic... underwater. They are at their best not when alone in the water, but when the water is full of other underwater nations for them to murder with their sacred cavalry. That way, they can try to leverage an early territory lead into a big enough economic advantage to compete on land. Personally, I would only take Pelagia if I knew there was another water nation in the game.
thero beats Pelagia in a 1v1
You don't get the sacred cavalry in EA, that's MA only. MA Pelagia is an underwater murder machine with better amphibious options, but in EA they're lacking those tools.
@@PerunAU RIP me. Guess I should think more carefully before opening my mouth 😜
EA TC is one of the very worst nations in the game, imo. The mages you get outside of your cap are absolutely godawful.
e: EA Ulm can do some insane research rushes, due to their path access and forge bonus.
Being cap dependent is a weakness for sure, but no way are they trash. There's no way in the world that they're worse than something like Pelagia or Mekone. Those cap mages are good, plus their sacred summons rock and their scales troops are decent.