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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2020
- MinnMax's Ben Hanson, Kyle Hilliard, Jeff Marchiafava, Grant, and Ronnie read hundreds of insightful comments from the MinnMax community on Patreon about the first four chapters from Square-Enix's Final Fantasy VII Remake. We don't spoil anything after Chapter 4 and don't reveal spoilers from the original 1997 game. In this discussion, we talk about Tifa and Cloud's relationship, how the combat gameplay compares to Final Fantasy XV, and whether or not Roche is terrible. To unlock the podcast version of this discussion or submit your own comments for us to read, please consider supporting MinnMax on Patreon! / minnmax
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Ronnie should be on more episodes. He is hilarious and I love the back and forth between him and Ben.
i agree, Ronnie is the best. we need more of him on here
This was a great video overall. I needed this one and Ronnie had me laughing hard multiple times. Thanks all.
Thanks for doing this in sections. There are so many other channels doing spoilers for the whole game. I have played this game as much as I possibly can, but no where near finishing it. It's just nice to be able to watch something about this amazing game.
Absolutely, thanks so much for checking it out!
I agree it’s nice when broken up into sections but sitting here watching a nearly 3 hour podcast about the first 4 chapters is too much.
Adam Bagford agree, this also gives me some mile markers to go by so I don’t feel like I’m rushing through the game. 4-5 chapters in a couple sittings a week since reasonable for this father lol.
I have been waiting two years, and I finally have this locked and loaded on my steam deck. Thanks for doing this!
Thank you for going back and watching this!
Kyle : I didnt know that until many hours in about the map or holding square or other things...
Game designers : I can see you've not read any of the opening tutorial blurbs we made you go through at the beginning.
Coming back for my third watch through of this deepest dive. Very excited for Rebirth. Despite it being only about four years ago, I'm already feeling nostalgic for these conversations.
I really appreciated JeffM’s perspective on this game. Loved the overall group’s interaction too. Make those dudes get on camera!
I appreciated all 5 minutes of his perspective also. But out of almost 3hrs of discussion i was disappointed he didn't speak up more. I get that he may have just had not much to say or that he wanted to let the more hardcore FF7 fans in the group talk amongst themselves, but you would have thought he would have gone in to a Deepest Dive with some more talking points about his unique experience.
I love Roche as the SOLDIER who's over-compensating for his lack of sanity. Chadley's name cracks me up every time I see him.
Feels like Roche is ment to show how soldiers are all kinda crazy. Even Reno has lines commenting on how weird Soldiers are.
Hell yes! Been waiting for this. I’m on chapter 8 and I can finally watch a spoiler cast that doesn’t spoil the whole game.
this is unironically the most fun and thorough discussion of the remake I've heard yet
Oh great, please help tell a friend!
MinnMaxShow will do!
It might be time for another re-watch...
Man, can't wait for the Deepest Dive on FF7 Rebirth, when we all discover the game together. Until then, what about Crisis Core? There are probably a lot of people out there who haven't played it before, so it could be another fun discussion. Plus, it's on everything!
Maximillian Dood would've been a great guest to have on this deepest dive, that man's love for this game knows no bounds.
Hell yes.
He’s doing a 3 hour long spoiler discussion with easy allies diving deep on the game this week!
Love the deep dive. Thank you for reading my comment. I am excited to get through the rest of the game and this discussion.
Ch 4 feels like an excellent "sample chapter", as it casually demonstrates everything that is amazing about this game from the strong music (including the Jesse theme, parachute sequence, etc), excellent character development, cheesy but highly enjoyable dialogue, exhilarating action sequences, and some surprisingly dynamic cutscenes based on player actions (whether you realize it or not).
Ch 4 may not have any of the STRONGEST moments of the remake, but damn if it's not still highly enjoyable!
Yeah I'm not feeling the ghosts so much, but hoping it pans out later on. I loved chapter 4. I have a 30 minute looped version of Ignition Flame (Roche fight music) downloaded. That song is incredible, and it is so perfectly woven into that whole sequence. The audio guys for this game have done a stand up job balancing the volume of each game element.
It feels like season 2 in breaking bad. Not very exciting, but does a lot to service world building.
@@karlklein2263 Eh, I thought the bike chase was pretty exciting, and then mech fight where Ifrit could be summoned, and the Roche 1-on-1 fight was fun. Obviously these were not the most epic battles in the game by any means, but they were far from dull.
Yuri Lowenthal (Spider-Man) voices Johnny by the way! Thought it was funny when someone on here said Johnny sounded like Charlie Day.
The entirety of Chapter 2 was incredible. Seeing the devastation up close and personal, Sephiroth, Aerith, and the extended battle sequence- all of it was fantastic.
This is brilliant. Thank you for portioning it and thank you for merging Grant and Ronnie with the Minn regs
At 1:16:00 Y'all were talking about Barrett's treatment of Cloud. In the military, this kind of relationship is common. I gotta disagree with Kyle. He's not doing any favors, he's a contractor, who expects to get paid for his work, not necessarily bought into "the cause". Barrett's attitude towards Cloud is very militaristic. Barrett is essentially an NCO and Cloud doesn't want to fall in line. He just wants his money.
Absolutely killed it, fellas. I’ve been waiting for this deepest dive almost as much as the Remake itself
You have to do all the side quests to choose Tifa's dress for Don Corneo's Mansion
This was such a fantastic conversation. Ronnie was an absolutely great addition and I really hope to hear more from him in future installments of DD and even regular episodes.
That was great! My favorite deepest dive so far. I can't wait for the next part. Although I wish you guys would go faster then one episode per week because im sure I will be long done with this game within a week.
It's so freaking fascinating listening to Kyle and JeffM react to Sephiroth as newcomers.
I love the 180 on Roche's character in this discussion. I thought the sequence in Ch 4 with him was a ton of fun even if he's over the top, and him punching security in the face with his motorcycle after the fight with cloud made me crack a smile, even if it is a weird physics defying moment.
Playing this game two years later, still so good and fun!
Kyle made so many comments and asked so many questions that were answered in the tutorial messages that literally pause the game for you to read them, it’s crazy 😆
Also, the comparisons to Kingdom Hearts and XV gameplay are very shallow, those combat systems have nothing to do with each other beyond featuring AI-controlled party members and each press of the attack button being one attack. XV is about pressing and holding Square to attack and modifying the attack animation with different directional inputs as you’re attacking, while weapon switching on the fly with Noctis, managing party members special cooldowns and warping around the battlefield. Kingdom Hearts is about exploiting openings, well-timed blocks / parries and reacting quick, it’s only button mashing at low difficulty levels, it’s the most action oriented of all of these. Meanwhile, FF VII Remake is about pre-battle configuration to make encounters significantly harder or easier and ATB management, more than anything else. There’s no emphasis in avoiding damage (except for big area attacks in some boss fights), it’s about mitigating the effects of enemy attacks and keeping pressure with good ATB use. Most people frustrated with 7R’s combat are trying to play it like a full action game, the lack of dodge i-frames and lack of frame perfect parries are indicative that it isn’t one.
Right! Dodge is mostly useful for avoiding area attacks, such as pbaoe or thrown grenades, or as a gap closer. If you aren't sitting in punisher stance most of the time as Cloud, you're doing it wrong. Cloud does like 3x damage in punisher and counters any physical hit with a massive pressure inducing aoe swipe. I wish the game would stress the importance of char swapping. You really need to build ATB, let off a big attack, and swap to the next char to do their big moves while that attack is happening. Always be building meter!
Man I played this game very differently lol. I used the materia that builds ATB as you block. I was consistently trying to build ATB to keep regen, haste, protect etc throughout boss fights.
The key is to switch characters regularly. You can literally switch to one character, do a combo to build meter, use an item or cast a move, and then switch to another character or go back to cloud. Every character is a blast to play once you learn how different types they play. Tifa is a monster once you have her down and get more abilities.
That's exactly what I do I just got this about a month ago on my new ps4 I got from gamestop I'm so glad I did
In the original Jessie does say she followed the instructions for the bomb exactly and wasn't expecting so much damage. I think the Remake takes a lot of little hints like that and makes them more explicit.
Shinra definitely didn't blow up the reactors in the original. Jessie has a throwaway, optional line about getting bomb plans from the internet. On the other hand, Reeve has dialogue in a cutscene where he blatantly says Avalanche was responsible for the explosions and killed a lot of people.
@@Poppedcollar Ah okay. I just remembered the Jessie line and when I played the demo I thought maybe they were expanding on something that was there already.
This was an awesome listen! I can’t wait for the next part of this!
Thank goodness only chapters 1-4. I'm only on chapter 9 as I am taking it slow to enjoy as the game is simply amazing.
This is gonna be my third time through. Loved this DD
Oh man, just took a break from the game to eat and here we are! Very excited to watch this!
Hooray! My comment was read!
Great discussion guys, very fun!
I just started this game again on PC and I love having this Deepest Dive to go back and listen to! MinnMax is the best 👍
To me, this feels like the best FF game since the PS2 era.. Which depending on how you look at it, that might be a knock on the game, or it is a compliment to the direction of the FF series, as they haven't really had a "great" game since that era (my opinion of course). It isn't quite living up to the god-tier of FF games we got 20 years ago, but, it's at least competent. That's where FF is at, competent, is refreshing.
This episode was a ton of fun. It was a pity Kyle had to bow out early, but everyone killed it. Ronnie and Grant were great, and brought a lot to the convo. Well done.
He wouldn’t have to bow out if Hanson wouldn’t drag out a discussion about 4, relatively short, chapters into a 3 hour discussion
Yay! I just finished Chapter 4 earlier. Going to get a drink and watch this
I played the original in 1997 so many times and I have no regrets playing this one. This is definitely a love letter to FF7 fans around the globe. I have tears every time I play this new version. Thanks for the amazing video.
Ross amen brother
Just beat it this morning, fantastic remake! Can’t wait for the next one... 😊
Johnny shows up EVERYWHERE in the OG.
In midgar specifically, he was kicked out of the bar by Barret when you first get to sector 7, and you can talk to his parents in the house next door. Then later, he’s in wall market by the honeybee in.
The next time I remember seeing him is in Costa del sol.
Also, Patrick Warburton tweeted about people thinking he was in this game, and mentioned it was actually his son.
Hey, yeah, so, great discussion as always, but can you make sure to give Ronnie and Grant an extra hell yeah? For it being their first podcast ever, and it was three hours long. they crushed it. Great job guys.
I was rushing to get to chapter 4 by today. I accidentally got to chapter 10!
Just finished watching all the rebirth deep dives! Loved the info and entertainment it provided about a game I love talking about! So I decided to go back here and start watching all the remake episodes too!
Ive watched alot of channels breakdown and discuss this game and this is by far my favorite. You guys are so funny! And watching this Is a fun way to revisit the excitement that surrounded the release of this remake. Kind of blows my mind that we are still waiting for Rebirth but, its almost here. 😁 I hope to see you guys do something similar when we get to play that.
The roll attack materia is so clutch against weaker mobs. Roll attack and pop triple slash right after clears out groups quickly
Almost three hours. Oooooh yes, baby!
So in the original there is a scene where Johnny is leaving town in the sector 7 slums. There is a little goodbye gathering for him and you can talk with his parents inside his house. Later, you spot Johnny in the Wall Market, where he is outside the Honeybee Inn. He buys a flower from Aeris while she waits on Cloud to do his business in there. Finally, you'll run into him at Costa Del Sol, where it appears he has settled down and may have a wife or girlfriend (she is showering in the bathroom). If Tifa isn't in your active party, she'll be there talking with him. She asks Cloud to give them space, as Johnny is one of the few people connected to her past. They definitely could've dated early on when Tifa came to Midgard from her hometown.
Wow this video is almost half as long as my current play time. I barely finished chapter 4 last night and (deep cut) i was feeling like Brian shea for the earlier GI game clubs when he would barely finish by the time of recording haha.
Can't wait to dive into this, thanks for the awesome discussion. I'll probably comment about my thoughts at a later time 😅
This was awesome, thank you.
This is amazing, surpassing all my hopes.
1:22:25 - Incidentally, Biggs's voice actor was Balthier in FFXII, so that tracks
I’m surprised Ben didn’t finish all the side quests because when they are all completed it opens that extra mission I think called “finally some one on one time” where you and Tifa go back and talk and pick her outfit for something later on.
Very good in depth discussion. Amazing that you can restrain yourselves from finishing the game immediately.
Great format. Never played the original game, and most discussions seem to revolve around the upcoming Part 2/3. So, I appreciate the breakdown
Hey Ben, just saw your footage of the Roche fight. Try blocking in Punisher Mode. It parries physical attacks and makes fights against certain enemies way easier.
Good catch, yeah I wasn't doing that.
Oh I can't imagine doing that fight without parry. It felt like the easiest boss fight with punisher on most of the time. I only had one close call when I dodged and he hit me with a stun before I could swap to punisher in time.
@@minnmax I hope it didn't come across as smartass backseat gaming. Just a little tip. Awesome discussion! Can't wait for the next one.
Awesome show, and thank you for reading my comment! 😎
Rewatching this as I run through my second playthrough in preparation for Rebirth.
Roach IS Waka from Okami. Characterwise and visually as well. His archetype is probably something along the lines of a joker / jester type, but based on Ushiwakamaru (a general-warrior trained in swordskills by a ghost) - just like Waka from Okami was based on him; Continuously sparring with the protagonist in order to train / test them. And eventually they may reveal a bigger truth about the character, of probably not being a mega douche after all and provide him some form of quest. He also has already revealed to be some kind of guardian by saving Cloud and the gang from becoming overwhelmed after proving himself (Cloud) worthy.
Funny, I just subscribed because Ben was on Friends per Second and mentions the FF7 deep dive. It’s my favorite game of all time (the OG) and I loved the remake too. So here I am, 3 years late to the party!
Right on, thanks for checking it out!
Guessing the "Patrick Warburton" voice is Arin Hanson of Game Grumps. He does a pretty uncanny impression of him and he's confirmed that he does other voices in the game.
Chadley is how you get new summons guys... you're definitely gonna want to assess those enemies.
27:30 I appreciate the four year early prediction of Auto Weapon Ability material in FF Rebirth 😅
For what it’s worth, Animal Crossing had taken over any desire I had to play FF7R - then I saw MinnMax upload this so I forced my way through at least chapter 5 and I’m glad I did. Love you guys, can’t wait to watch the rest of the deep dives.
Me when I saw this in my feed: “MinnMaxx, who are these guys? WHOA wait is that Kyle Hillia- BEN HANSON?? FAVA?!! OMG!!” subscribed :)
Oh wow, thanks! Glad you found us!
I'm into chapter 5 and this game is so good so far. I had very low expectations after... The last 19 years, but this is delivering (so far...)
I'm so glad somebody mentioned FF12's gambits. I've been dying for them. The more I've played, the smoother I've found each character though, and the gambit system almost made fights feel just purely scripted. I think their will be a happy medium they can find.
I never felt like gambits were necessary (even on the higher difficulties).The AI seems to frequently block, dodge, and position themselves in ways that allow you to succeed in any fight. The real control comes from when you're in battle and dishing out atb consuming commands anyway.
@@michaelmcclelland9876 yeah I agree, I just feel like autocure is an annoying materia to use, and maybe more importantly than gambits or controls, having to use an atb slot for a single item is bullisht
@@alexok37 I feel like it would be a bit broken and unbalanced if you could simply spam items though... It's not like you could use items in the original game before your atb was full.
@E1V1A But you have to plan out the gambits in specific detail. You also have the option of simply not using them. It's a lot more involved than it sounds, and I'd argue more involved than FFXIII having you decide a configuration of pre-set behavior types, which is the only way to play that game.
Honestly, that happy medium already exists in the party commands/tactics you can do in the "Tales of" games. If something close to that is implemented in the next part, it'll pay dividends. Tho, the next game needs to make regular mobs more difficult and numerous in size to compensate.
If you block in punisher mode it automatically does a counter
Complaining about Roche defying physics is weird because Cloud & Tifa do some wild ass physic defying stuff in battles, including Cloud doing a spin attack on his own motorcycle.
The part where Wedge is being chased by the dogs caught me off guard. I expected it to go into a cutscene where the dogs were just handled, but instead it became clear I had to intercept and save Wedge. I ended up using fire and it caught all but one of the dogs chasing him at once, killing them. The final dog wheeled on me, realizing the true threat. It felt so natural and turned an otherwise silly comedy moment into an actually useful strategy .
Wow I didn't realize how unpopular my opinions are... I absolutely LOVED Roche and Tifa as characters and actually found Jessie too campy to enjoy. Roche is so over the top (for good reason) that he brought so much fun and I thought Tifa was very multifaceted and had a unique perspective compared to the other characters. Jessie just felt way too flirty, I loved her at first but slowly got annoyed with her.
Coming back for a rewatch before Rebirth. Can't wait
I love the motor cycle scene especially when you get the biker built trophy.
Absolutely love Roche, give me more stupid nonsense square!
this game is really hard to stop playing
Johnnie is also in the original but he's leaving when you walk into frame with a big crowd of people. You can talk to his parents. Then you see him in Wall Market and then later on in another city Costa Del Sol. His father is dressed the same in both versions.
On the combat it never stops getting new. Like Tifa has specific combos you can chain together with additional moves to keep most enemies pressured the entire time. It's so gratifying. Even after beating everything on hard mode tailoring your materia to how you want to approach general fights vs boss fights is exquisite.
These people have lived all their lives in trash. The swearing is fine. And refreshing.
I believe Cloud says Sephiroth's name in the original when he has his first Mako vision in reactor 1. I just played through the original for the first time in over a decade and I was shocked how absolutely every screen in the original they included and expounded upon. It's glorious and handled so much better in the remake. In the original they destroy most of the entire plate and Barret and the gang is happy and want to celebrate. In the remake Barret kind of says the same thing in a more tasteful way in order keep his team emotionally together in order to get home and keep moving forward. The cause is still the same and they can't dwell on their mistakes or failures.
Do NOT sell your weapons. The weapon upgrade system keeps basically every weapon viable the further you get in the game. Always switch to a new weapon to max your proficiency to get the ability and then just whatever zeroed you actually want to use.
im really intrested to know that if this wasnt a remake and original consept what kind of reviews would it get
Jessie is amazing. I like everything about her in FF7R. She was definitely one of my biggest surprises.
After producing & presenting FF7 Remake content, getting the platinum and interviewing both Tifa and Aerith voiceactors I thought I was done with FF7! I was so so wrong! Loved this content, found you on Kinda Funny and I’m here for these deep dives. Love this game with all my heart, side quest aside this is easily my Game of the Year.
Just played this game for the first time on PS+, loved it so much. These videos should be perfect for listening to while I replay on hard.
Oh great, glad you enjoyed it!
you can do the darts in 6 darts if you get 5 triple twentys and a single 1
Potential Crisis Core spoilers here. The only thing that made Roche tolerable for me was to think of him as a SOLDIER going crazy. If you played Crisis Core, Angeal, Genesis, and Sephiroth were kind of batshit and always dualing each other. If you imagine he is now the only replacement SOLDIER 1st class after the others are gone and he found someone who can fight him at that god tier.
I'm wrong, he's 3rd class
I think Roche is 3rd class unless I'm mistaken, but it definitely makes sense that he's a bit nuts. All SOLDIER members are subject to Jenova's will. I honestly think the Roche fight and that whole sequence was my second favorite bit in this section, the first being of course Marlene and Barret... can't top that cuteness.
Roche states he’s 3rd Class. That’s why he also has the same sword Zach starts with in that game.
@@KRob811 ah rip, welp idk
In order to get those additional story beats you actually have to do all the side quests. Also during that conversation with Tifa she asks you on a date and she asks what kind of dress you think would suit her. Your choice here influences a segment further down the road in the game.
Thx for spoiling it
I'm really looking forward to playing this on hard. On normal I'm rarely getting Limit Breaks or Summons ready before I'm downing the bosses. I've been having to awkwardly slow down my onslaught just so I can see the cool attacks. I think I'm really just getting lucky with figuring out boss stagger mechanics, although my liberal use of assess helps.
Once you get used to the battle system and get better items and upgrade your weapons the battle system opens up sooooooo much more lol
Ben, the materia Chadley makes is some of the best in the game!! It's cheap on the first buy because they want you to have it. The second and third buys are like 5k+
this was a joy to listen to
Lord of the Rings music has vocals singing in elvish with an Orchestra of strings, with the the horns and drums for the triumphant moments. Final Fantasy VII has a ton of horns, piano, guitar, synth, and strings and percussion to create its sound. Sure it’s not as techno sounding as the original but it’s a fantastic reimagining of the soundtrack so far
Thank you for doing this! I’m 35 hours in and still fell like I don’t get the combat. Love it so much but I keep finding out new things. Like Barrett, hit triangle when reloading his regular square for a major boost to his triangle attack.
New Deepest Dive 🎉🎉🎊🎊🎁🎁
I feel like the asset loading corridors and drawn out dialogue really keeps messing up my pacing. Love everything else though so far.
That's just telling us that the hardware is holding this game back. PS5's SSDs will clear that up giving them more freedom with level design.
Yea those super long load times are really messing it up. You are spoiled
Ooof you guys are gonna wish you did those side quests, I got a cure for the toad transformation for finding all 3 cats. And Chadley has some amazing great materia in the next section
I really like how distinct all the characters play. The only real hang up I have about the combat is there seems to be a lot of times where you have melee characters and enemies or bosses that fly around or are super evasive, and sitting around waiting for your atb to charge to use magic really disrupts the flow of combat for me. Like I know if I just had barret in every fight these enemies would not be the jerks that they are.
I adore Roche! Final Fantasy has always had physics defying moments plus to quote The Great Clement "IT'S A VIDEO GAME!"
I love Breaking Bad but I never made the connection with Wedge's voice even though now I know it seems super obvious.
The junk dealer at 58:24 looks suspiciously like Hanson. Hanson's better looking though. :)
Can’t wait to see what Hanson and his buddies think about the ending. At first I was excited but now I’m a lil worried that some of the best parts of the og will be fucked with.
Ahh life's good guys. Last night I played a tonne of FF7, today I renovated my Animal Crossing island whilst listening to this beautifully long 'cast. :)
Next part when?