I can accept loosing my money on a KS, but i can't accept that they used my money to deliver games i didn't back. And the tax and VAT money should be the minimum they repay.
That would make sense and about the only legal thing anyone could do. If they collected tax and vat money, it must be used for that I would think. Not sure what could be don3 if anything.
they deliberately lied to people and then kept open their various late pledges so they could continue to grift money from people KNOWING THEY COULDN'T DELIVER ANY OF THOSE GAMES. they are probably also lying about the threats they received too as a way of garnering sympathy before disappearing into the wind under the guise of "protecting their families". I have no sympathy for them in any way.
I don't think that people from Mythic deserve to have death threats or have their families threatened. However, to say that backers are showing 'unreasonable anger' is being deluded at best?! Mythic have shown zero remorse for this situation, with, to my knowledge, no formal apology. There has been no attempt to explain where the millions of dollars have gone, just a weak excuse about the global situation and a demand for more money. And as backers, we have to take some responsibility, as we were compliant in this charade. For myself, I backed Hel a long time ago and so I will excuse myself with that one. Anastyr, I was foolish to back it when Mythic had so many unfinished projects. That foolishness cost me £500. If I was a backer of Rise of the Necromancers or Monsterpocalypse, I would be very reluctant to give more money to Mythic. In my eyes, it is like being the victim of a robbery and then giving the thief the rest of your cash when you see him again. In fact, that is exactly what it is?! Just an apology would have gone a long way and Mythic can't even do that?
Sadly, not going to happen. People like them can't apologize because they can't see that what they are doing is wrong. They are right now considering asking for contributions that they will spend on themselves without regard for actually delivering a product. They don't care about you. They don't care about the harm they are doing to honest game developers. They only think about what is best for them. Suckering a bunch of people into sending them more money would be good for them.
@@johnfuhrman2854 If they have "no regard for actually delivering a product" then why are they actually delivering products right now? Wave 1 DD was fulfilled and 6: Siege is on the boats being delivered as we speak. The situation sucks, but besides the lack of a formal apology, the behavior and track record since this whole ordeal started indicates that once they receive the extra money, they spend it on the games and do deliver...
I don’t give a damn about them, they’ll probably never recover trust so maybe they should shut down this clown company. The worst thing is what they did to ks community, probably for many thier campaign was first and last
They're thieves. It's plane and simple. They spent muli millions of dollars on something else apart from what those funds were allocated for. I didn't give money for HEL only for it to be spent on anything else other than production of HEL.
@@AdamJorgensen "business failing" is not the same as fraud! Sure, tell me more why they still where creating KS when knowing they would not deliver. ;) You think people eat ice creams with the forehead!
I don’t understand how there aren’t criminal charges. They fraudulently presented themselves on the kickstarter, how they used the funds, and then charged for post crowdfund services like shipping and shade washing, which “this is not a preorder” blurb doesn’t even cover.
Because crowdfunding is still a very grey area in the law, and as more than half the backers of any given project generally come from the US, it's not likely there will be any legal action due to the complexity of international lawsuits.
@@PRC533 no crowdfunding is very clearly just preorders not grey area and nothing special. Every single person should have performed a charge back months ago.
Crowdfunding anything is seeking investors for your product. I don't believe there is anything anyone could possible do as an investor. It's worded that way specifically. It's not a pre-order store and people need yo stop thinking and treating it like it is.
@@drgnmstr44 NO DUDE STOP. Investing. Investors, these are controlled words by the SEC. Their is crowdfunding platforms that have "investors" but kickstarter IS NOT ONE OF THEM. Stop spreading FUD. Kickstarter is a pre-order platform. Your credit card merchant account recognizes the transactions as preorders as does USA consumer laws. Just because you use the magic words "crowdfunding" does it somehow change the type of transaction and laws surrounding the excahnge for good and services. People like you spread lies and misinformation and then victims of this will read what you wrote and get taken advantage of because they think they have no recourse.
Crowdfunding doesn’t make fraud not fraud, if you say you’re going to take money for x, then use it on y, you committed fraud. Secondly, calling it investing (at one point is equity given) doesn’t change SEC regulations or absolve them of liability. If it behaves as a preorder system, then it can be argued as one in court regardless if they refuse to call themselves one. Third point they took funds afterwards for expressly “shipping/handling”, “figure shading” and other services which isn’t even within the language of the crowdfunding. Those are undelivered services.
I'm done backing boardgames on Kickstarter because of Mythic Games. They only thing I back are STL projects with digital rewards. All boardgames I buy in retail or 2nd hand market. On Mythic Games, I strongly believe Leo should be punished for his actions in the line of prison time, a huge fine. They should also release their financial records, how was that money spent. They never will, because that would only unveil their ponzi scheme.
Ngl, the thing that’s most upsetting to me is that I hope to be a brand-new board game designer with a KS within the year, and shenanigans from companies with more resources is like they’re plopping in the pool where the rest of us are trying to carefully plan, budget, and deliver an idea but just need crowdfunding to make it real...
The amount of games i pulled out of at the last minute with these guys, the gods must have been looking down on me. Darkest dungeon, Hel, Anystyr, six siege, i have all $1 pledges with them.
@@TheKevlol Same, I got caught for $400 with Darkest Dungeon as I was a huge fan of the video game. Definitely a massive lesson that was learned. I have such a sour taste for the game I never even played what was delivered.
Same here. Hel, Anastyr and Monsterpocalypse I was a $1 backer. Neither Darkest Dungeon or Steamwatchers appealed to me. However I backed 6 Siege and paid for the contribution. However I was looking forward to Monsterpocalypse. Now I guess I will back CMON's version fo Hel. But I also consider myself lucky.
I thought the idea of crowdfunding is to have an idea already fully developed (in our case that means a fully developed ruleset, fully baked in info/ content, and a thoroughly playtested game) and THEN launch a campaign to simply raise funding to mass manufacture this fully fleshed out/ tested idea, and maybe raise enough money to hire quality artists in unique circumstances (although artwork and graphic design should already be complete at this stage too.) So the crowdfund is only used to produce something at scale. But I’ve seen countless crowdfunding campaigns that give the impression they are complete ideas (with artwork, minis, and all) and ask for funding, only to turn around to say they are still developing art, rules, etc. before it can go into production. It just seems contrary to what crowdfunding is meant for. I thought all that stuff would already be taken care of IN ADDITION to already knowing which manufacturing and shipping partners would be used (their cost estimates would/ should be baked into the asking price for each product unit, with buffer room to spare for unforeseen shipping expenses.) That way, backers get their game investment sooner rather than later. I just think it’s odd to not already have a complete game that’s been developed with a fine-tooth comb before asking the public to raise funds to get it printed and shipped Just editing to say that I also understand when they get a lot more playtesters once they launch a campaign since it naturally gets more attention. So it’s also a good thing to further develop the game before it officially gets the stamp of approval to print. Perhaps the solution is simply transparency around an extended timeline to include post-fund development (tweaking final details and such with more playtesters before ordering a print)
Thats a common misconception. It depends on whats being developed; and it IS the responsibility of the project runners to make that information clear. But its also up to the backers to do their research, and weigh the risks, in spite of whatever the project runners are promising. Clarity from on one side is just as important as healthy skepticism from the other side. Sadly not many people seem to be able to read into something without ending up on one of two extremes... IE: Hype and/or Cynicism. Prototyping is very expensive. Tooling factories for production is expensive (thats no exception here with printed material). Sampling and refinement is costly in both time and money. If they were fully ready for production- it would had been way easier to simply find traditional investors, since the bigger risks would already been mitigated on someone else's dime. Now don't get me wrong.... this situation is pretty much their fault, and their failure to follow through is something to be mad about (on top of making it worse). But I'm speaking out because I'm getting fatigued with the fundamental misunderstanding people have with crowdfunding, and how too many people think its just a straight preorder. While transparency is good..... historically I have rarely seen backers handle delays and significant changes well; regardless of how it might be better for the project in the long run. Often there are demands for reparations, in the form of more costly additions to backer rewards, starts out scaling the practical ability of a group to deliver, while already mired by some kind of set back or problem. I've had this happen with 2 projects I've backed, as the prototyping and quality control for production was discovered to be financially untenable. Normally their current progress is enough to look for additional private investment; but thats never a guarantee it'll work out. As an example- The STEM controller project folded are multiple years of issues trying to get the production costs down enough to not be a loss, and fix reliability issues with the sensors. They were able to secure funding from an outside investment group, closed the project, and subsequently cancelled all the orders. However, in a rare twist, they worked out a deal where they used that money to refund backers, and then pivoted the entire company to focus on R&D for medical applications. Another example was We Happy Few (I wasn't a part of this one), where in the end, the game was sold for a stake with a publisher late in production... and that publisher proceeded to demand the game be carved up into multi-tiered editions- a thing popular at the time. I'm pretty sure its fairly well documented, so you can look up the whole story yourself. But backers were pretty livid, because publisher involvement is one of things people go to crowdfunding in order to avoid. In a lot of ways you have to think of KS and Crowdfunded projects as one would think about traditional VC investment. Except instead of getting a cash-based ROI, you get the first run of production of whatever it is they're trying to get to market. The risks are substantial, and the nature of the project may change for a myriad of reasons. And thats not even going into the obvious set of problems with mismanagement, inexperienced project runners, and straight up scams. You always have to hold on to the possibility that it will end in a total wash, and come to terms with that.
The game really feels incomplete without the other heroes. While the game is playable and incredibly fun from the base game alone, some of the heroes do not synergize well together.
I’m much more selective in my crowdfunding mainly due to Budget, but hearing about the Mythic situation is certainly contributing to my increased restraint as well. While I personally have not been burned by the Mythic games situation specifically, (I do have 1 game they produced/distributed), I have been severely burned by another company that has notoriously left backers high and dry.
I've cut my yearly KS/GF spending by at least 75%. Backing is much riskier than it used to be and the value we are getting for our pledge money is much less.
Companies on crowdfunding are starting to actively prevent FLG's to undermine their prices, which means they are basically charging at or even above retail prices on their campaigns which is insane.
So I haven’t heard any one yet discuss what has happened to the very large sum they received for the two sold IP’s… like great, those two games are no longer going to be produced under mythic but why is that funding not enough to pay for completing any of their other projects…
Because they spent money faster than it was coming in and have nothing left but a big pile of unpaid bills. It may have started as poor business management, but at some point it became fraud.
@@GoodEggGuyno one knows, but you would think it was a decent amount. Then again CMON may have got them dirt cheap since Mythic knew there was no feasible way they could actually make those games. Mythic may have thought it better to get something out of them than nothing at all
Since the Mythic/Peterson ... etc Situation I stopped backing from brand new companies, companies that have too much currently undelivered products and companies that had issues in the past for example a year or more fulfillment delay
Stop with the click-bait video titles please. As others have pointed out, there's nothing new being said here and a lot of rambling/repeating too. I want to hear about Mythic Games since I backed Darkest Dungeon... and when I see a video titled "Mythic is Finished" I expect the video content to reflect the title. Mythic is close to being finished (like they have been for years now), but they are not "FINISHED".
I think your personal disagreement with something doesn't mean something is clickbaity. I spend plenty of this video discussing the future of Mythic Games both in how they aren't sure if they'll even ask for more contributions but also, and this was indeed new info I hadn't covered before, if they will continue as a company. I clearly stayed my point that they will not continue. All of that is very in line with the title and messaging. It's fine to disagree, it's fine to not care for a video's content or message, I cannot make videos tailored to specific people and when expressing opinions we're bound to disagree sometimes, but I don't feel any of the above makes this video clickbait. I titled it exactly how my closing thoughts state. I do appreciate your feedback of course and I hope my explanation here helps let you know where my thought process is for it:)
@@jebprice68 that's just you reading into it. I'm stating my opinion and sharing why I think that. I can see why you'd think that but again I can't make something that fits every person's line of thought or way of thinking. To me I'm just stating my conclusion and the 2nd whole half of the video. Neither is "right", it's just two trails of thought :) I hope that regardless of your alignment with the thumbnail that you enjoyed the video. :)
Bah. Leon has an ego complex and is incompetent at business. Mythic games should die and leave the industry to competent talented people. Their games were flitzy and glossy but also shoddy, a mess and not that good in the end. A reflection of the poor qualities Leon had. He just rode on the bull market of kickstarterswhile he could. He never learned
The amount of comments on your last video defending the death threats was insane. I remember one where the guy was like "he fed his wife and kids with my money so they're in this too". Completely insane. I would also be really afraid if I were him. Its not that hard guys. Mythic=bad. Deaththreats=really bad. Both can be true at the same time.
I don´t think that not even trying would be better. Yes, It would be faster, but that would have been 5-6 (not sure how many) mythic campaigns totally undelivered and a massive stain to crowdfunding, with tens of thousands of backers left with nothing to see in exchange for millions taken in funding. So, as bad as it is to ask for contributions, it still feels better than a complete fail and seeing all that money vanishing, also it shows that the money at least went into something, imho. That being said, personally I back a looot less than before, after these issues and some other minor burns related to unconvincingly explained shipping hikes from other companies.
Indeed I stop all crowdfunding. Was so upset and still, extra for 'shipping' ... but paying again almost full value is a big fail. And Kickstarter doesn't care and still show on their first page 253 524 projects funded for $7 820 599 544 BILLIONS dollars. Show NO responsibility.
To be honest I can't help but feel as though this should escalate to a criminal investigation, as consideration has to be given to the time involved and the way they actively and knowingly mislead the community to secure funds through deception. I would even argue that at a minimum Mythic need to be offering some degree of compensation and in an ideal world those involved with the campaigns and finances of Mythic should face jail time. There are no signs of remorse here and as such they should be treated like any other criminal.
Ah great...instead of mythic now we gotta deal with CMON chopping everything up and reselling it as 51 separate SKUs. They are both cancerous companies.
Blacklist games was what killed crowdfunding for me. Also once it started taking boardgames an average of two years to complete a game (if not more) I am back to buying just retail now. I am not willing to risk my money anymore, the risk is getting too high.
I have dramatically reduced my crowdfunding backing. Not because of Mythic Games, but because of Petersen Games. So, it's the same situation with a different company.
I think thet the proper title to this video would be "I think MG is finished" The title may rise expectations that you have some oficial new info that we dont know . I enyoed the video, but if you consider the title more carefuly there would be no negative feedback. I dont think that it helps the industry if they just walk away and there wont be any concequences to them, they commited fraud when tehy launched 5 campaings for which they clearly did not have funds to produce. And I wonder what they did with that money, cause they neted a huge pile for all of their campaings. Other companies with that cashflow would deliver I think. As for me I have more games that I can play in my whole life and I'm in this buisness heavily for 3 years , so personaly I dont care what will become with them, I'm sad we wont see those games, I think they could have been special. But I think I need a little justice to be absolutely OK , I took an oportunity and reverted my pledge for Anastyr for store credit and got DD a game I wont play most likely and hardly sell it on SH market in my country but at least I've got some nice minis and cut my loses to 200$. So they done fine by me but fucked up a lot of other people.
While Flyos is the nail in the coffin for me ever backing another game, mythos just reinforced the truth that kickstarter is a company that lets scams fund on their platform and doesn't care as long as they get their cut. Never again will i back another kickstarter.
I'm backing off on crowdfunding a lot, the prices just aren't worth it any more, and if a game is actually really good, they'll run a second campaign usually, and can just buy the good ones then. Unless it's a proven publisher, and I know it's a game that is right up my alley, I'm just passing. Thankfully I haven't backed any games by these companies, like Mythic or Petersen, even though I was tempted by a few. Publishers have done this to themselves.
Holy Grail Games did exactly the same thing last year, creating projects they knew they would never fulfil, and using backer money to fulfil other projects. There has to be more safeguards in place for backers.
Hey KOA. I'm so happy that I just barely missed this disaster. I feel bad for those roped in.I've been meaning to ask, did you ever hear anything back from Lazy Squire? This video reminded me of them, unfortnately. They're even doing the slow roll Blacklist games move w/ a few sculpts at a time stretch out the BS or just showing off a few cards and small mechanics that backers just don't care about anymore. There's no transparency whatsoever. I feel like I speak for many backers when I say that appreciated your previous efforts in bringing that situation to light, because we are at the point where we just feel helpless in left in the dark waiting for a disaster to happen. Can you shed any more light on that situation? They have really put me off on crowdfunding. Not much since :( Sorry for the rant and Thanks for the videos my dude!
Keep it above board guys. There's legal avenues if you think what MG did is wrong. In fact, I would encourage to do so if you think there's fraud (I don't but if you do go forward). If you think there's a class action lawsuit possibility, for laws broken, and spoken to a lawyer that specializes in that law in that region of the world, go for it. You can report to government agencies on taxes for products not received if such a thing exist, such as EU or Luxemburg government. You can push for more regulations involving crowdfunding. You can file a complaint with your bank and file a dispute. I'm all for holding devs accountable. But keep it above board. Going after someone's family over board games is really dumb.
I think the problem with KS is what I’m calling the golden age 2019-2022. Kickstarter made so many amazing huge campaigns and huge games that take many months to complete. Backers ended up buying them all. Now we have so many games delviered and undelivered that it’s really hard to have the desire to back new games.
Yeah pretty much this. My backlog is so huge right now from the games that actually did deliver, not to mention keeping up with games like Marvel Champions, Legendary or Summoner Wars at retail makes all the games I backed 3-4 years ago that never delivered kinda pointless. I don't need those games anymore and for them to ask for MORE money when the enthusiasm is long gone....It was much different back when I only had a few board games compared to the dozens and dozens I have now, so their effort is a lost cause.
i got a lot more cautious after hearing this. and although i am not affected here, i am affected by judgement, and i am down 450€. so yeah, it seems that the golden age of boardgame kickstarters is over. i am not very willing to take risks anymore, as i think it will get worse. and besides that i recently saw more and more games end up on amazon and at retailers before backers got them. so again, why should we take the risk? on top of that you see many creators offering a ‘last chance to back’ right before the game is shipped. at that point you know the game is produced. you might miss out on one or two small expansions, but at least you minimize your risk of not getting anything!
There have been multiple reports of people obtaining a full refund via taking Mythic to small claims court (Justice of The Peace Court 13 in Delaware). Mythic confirmed at least one of these reports. So your options are "let it go", "Just give them more money when they ask", and "Small claims court to get your money back."
I think the whole landscape of crowdfunding games have changed since 2019, you don't get the discounts, exclusive stuff (as much) and some creators usually go retail and then you end up paying less for the same amount of stuff. I have not backed anything this year so far (I don't think) I am planning on backing Dantes inferno and I think that will be it for this year.
After 3 outstanding kickstarters from Awaken Realms (including one during COVID) I definitely became sold on Kickstarter board games. When I saw the 6 Siege campaign from a publisher which looked to have run several successful crowdfunded games before (and could point to those games as evidence of their reliability) I had no real red flags that would lead me to suspect this campaign would end up being a mismanaged mess. Delays are understandable, even increasing material costs are understandable, but ultimately they chose to set the price for their game and charge for shipping during the kickstarter, rather than later after development. For them to use the shipping funds for development costs without even telling the backers was really frustrating. Overall the woeful communication from Mythic on 6 Siege and their other projects was inexcusable. I definitely am unlikely to back another kickstarter game at this point. It's just not worth the anxiety.
I've said this before on a video I made but listen to Leo's language. He is NOT GETTING IT. He refuses to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. He won't take full accountability for what is happening. Now the death threats... --- Look I PREACH forgiveness. I forgive him and the company. But I'm pointing out to everyone: This man is NOT taking responsibility for his actions and he is not getting. He's a VICTIM. It happened to him. Covid. Shipping Crisis. Now he doesn't know if he can go forward if everyone is MAD at him. Again, I forgive him, would hug him and give him a dollar in the street if he needed it. But he's not taking responsibility for his own life. He's full of CRAP. --- | Now do I slow down my Kickstarter backing because I'm out on Hel and Monpoc? Nope. I am a responsible human and took acceptable risks. Sucks to lose them. Worse than the money is the idea that MonPoc, which just looks so FUN, will probably never get made. I could go play the old Privateer Press version, but I was really looking forward to the game. Hopefully CMON redeems itself with Hel, after a really lackluster Trudvang Legends.
I fully backed the Siege game. With shipping it came to 349 US dollars. When they asked for more money they also sent a link for a refund. Twice I asked for my money back. I never heard any response from MG. Since they reached their goal they have sent emails asking for shipping verification. So I figured the game was coming. It is clear the game is not coming as people have already got theirs. They have been silent through emails asking for a refund or the game. I will never back any other project on KS ever. I can accept losing money, but the gall of ignoring all of us is what frosts my cookies.
Watching to see if there's anything new here? Be good if you could put a description to what you mean by finished.. like they've been dead ducks as a company for ages.. what's changed?
Thanks for the video. I hate being negative in comments, but my losses to Mythic campaigns really soured me on crowd-funding. Leo really put his face on the company and I hope I never see it near another campaign.
1,000% have slowed down on crowdfunding because of my experience with 2 Mythic projects. Number of unfulfilled projects a HUGE indicator for me when considering to back stuff now.
Death Threats and Doxing are not ok: BUT what isn't ok is saying oh all the bad stuff we did now can be forgiven cause we got threatened. No that does not excuse you. Mythic Games you cannot weasel your way out of this! Pay up or Shut up
As to your question about Kickstarter: I will NEVER touch another Kickstarter campaign or *ANY* pre-development pre-sale platform until they admit that they ARE pre-development pre-sale platforms and adhere to internet sales laws, or until those laws and the enforcement thereof catches up to this platform. I don't care who the company is, what the product is - I will not spend money on a system that permits zero accountability and allows someone to hide behind internet anonymity after they've stolen from people. [EDIT]: I was an 'all in' backer for Darkest Dungeon. My refund has been in limbo since July 2022 and I am currently pursuing legal actions.
Not only Mythic. Kickstarter is an investment... they can get lost... The cost are rising: inflation, energy house and the VAT we have to pay for the boardgames. Also a reason I only go EU boardgames and minis kickstarters
would be great if kickstarter actually held them to task and made them produce a sheet on where the money went. That would then show truly the level of trouble
Kickstarter PBC is just happy to take their 10% "processing charge" (they do not consider it a commission as that would make them an agent in the transaction). They now hold that they are legally just a credit card processing facility, and are thus protected by the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (1974), which guarentees them immunity from being considered an agent in the transaction and they will do the utmost to protect this status. Thus you will never see accountability from them.
Kickstarter and others must have realised Mythic Games' had an abysmal track record before they agreed to host 6:Siege. Did they conduct due diligence or are they simply hosting dead horses on a gambling site? I feel sorry for Ubisoft, who's name and reputation are also sorely tarnished.
At this point we need to be honest that this company is committing fraud. They literally still have pre-orders available on their website for Rise of the Necromancers. No statements about it potentially not being delivered or there being more "contributions" later on. Just a straight pre-order of a game. If it doesn't deliver for that cost, that is fraud.
Good riddance, just a poorly run company, if there is any silver lining then it's given everyone a wake-up call when it comes to handing over hard earned money to KS campaigns
The only way Mythic continues as a business now is by rerunning kickstarters for old IPs such as 6 siege at a much higher cost to cover their previous projects. The problem is that they've likely lost the IP for Siege so can't do a year 5/6/7 etc... They have the game developed, they have the files, a big chunk of that cycle is done for them already. Also, releasing updates saying a game is finished, or the rules are finished, while a late pledge manager is open, is fraudulent behaviour.
I have two different things that have impacted my backing of crowd funded board games. First up, I would never, ever, back anything from Mythic (or anyone involved with Mythic) ever again. Second, I have drastically reduced (to almost zero) the amount of stuff I back on Crowd Funding Platforms because I am so fed up with getting surprise screwed on the shipping.
Mythic owners need to be held accountable personally and their assets seized in my opinion. If as you say they lied about where the games were when they asked for money, that's surely fraud
When you look at the bad companies,you can see the two most common things done wrong are communication with backers and project management. Communication is the easiest thing to fix and correct. How you communicate with backers and the community is important as this is the face of your company. It does not matter how good of a thing you deliver if your communication is poor. It could be the best thing since sliced bread but if you cant communicate properly with the communities/backers then no one will see that sonce the good will be drowned out by all the bad. Be honest and truthful about things. You make a mistake you need to own it, appologize and correct it. Project management issues come in a lot of forms but the biggest is an over ambitious campaign with tons of stretch goals. If you weren't planning on all of that, then your game is going to cost more and be delayed. This is generally called scope creep and it hurts every time it happens in a lot of industries. Not having the business sense to know when you need to start looking at different steps and ensuring you have the funds allocated to later steps. If you know you need 50,000 to cover shipping then you better put thst 50,000 aside for thst and not touch it.
Im taking the loss on Monsterpocalypse. I wasn't super confident in it when i backed it and only did the base game. If I was the ownership, I'd shut the doors.
I do respect your opinion and point of view. That being said, my opinion on this one doesn’t align with yours. If they don’t at least make an attempt (even it’s a feeble one) to work with people to finish the pledges it’s a bigger slap to the face than not. Just how I feel. I lost out on Anastyr. But if they just close shop before even trying to get Monsterpocalypse out after I paid $600 bucks… feels worse. that game was based on an existing property so unlike the two they sold it should be mostly designed. I get the financial “contribution” may be outrageous and it may be so high I walk away… but I think we deserve the option to walk away. Set your contribution amount, set your backer % that you need for funding (let’s be honest it would be from scratch funding) … then let us make the choice. I sympathize with the hard time they are dealing with, but also feel they have a responsibility to try. At the least. If you don’t get enough backers to fund the printing, fine. But give us that option. They owe us that much at least. Just my 2 cents. Edit: spelling. Also, thanks for keeping us informed!! I wouldn’t have known about this interview otherwise. Edit2: congrats on the new job and good luck!!!
Anyone who sends them a contribution is being foolish. It is more likely than not that Mystic Games will just spend that money on previous expenses and they will get nothing.
I was scaling back anyway as I have far too many board games (I haven't bought a game never mind Kickstartered one since this whole debacle) but yeah I think Darkest Dungeon is going to be my last Kickstarter. It's a great idea and I love so much stuff I've backed, but the tools to ensure reasonable accountability and vetting needs to be so much better to minimise things like this. As well as fellow backers, its the workers at the coalface of Mythic (like the packers and basically anyone who had no part in the business and decision making process) I feel sorry for, especially if they stand to lose their jobs.
@Mr King: Usually i don't bother writing, but now that you mentioned it several times i would like to make a suggestion and also adress some points: Disclaimer: 1) I agree with 90% of what you are saying. 2) I also am affected by darkest dungeon and Petersen Games, but i never care about kickstarter stuff. Because i treat it from the moment i spend the money as luxury stuff, i don't need anyway, with money i also don't need anyway. Otherwise i don't invest. The points: 3) I find you mentioning "people (as in "accused owners of kickstarter problem companies") being real people and having real lifes" always sounds very apologetic. Like it makes up for everything people do. Maybe you could elaborate on that a bit more. Beause you also always say, that those real people feed their family with our real money. Obviously there are areas within the interpretative spectrum of this statement where it becomes ridiculous. Especially if you look at the extreme sides of the range. But maybe it's time for ... 4) ... educating your viewership a bit about investments in general and how this stuff works outside of kickstarter. Especially the difference between promissary notes, shares and kickstarter-like plattforms - and why over time pretty much the whole world thought it would probably be a REALLY good idea, that risky stuff concerning money, should have some kind of legal consequences and backup. Mainly because a) people can be really picky about "getting their moneys worth", even if they didn't get their promised return. And b) "personal money" is basically USUALLY the equivalency of ones previously invested lifetime, to make the upcoming lifetime of oneself and of their emotionally invested people (a.k.a. loved ones) easier.
I'm only into this mess for Monsterpocalypse, but for a big amount (over $600, I think). I don't expect it now. They should just go away, and never return to this industry. And, yes, now I am very, very selective about what I do and don't crowd-fund. That number has significantly decreased due to the Mythic Games situation. Sad.
Never ever backing a kickstarter board game again, its too easy for projects to just fob you off and run away with your money. Mythic has taken the piss and nobody has held their feet to the fire over it.
Yep, I don’t back an indie or unestablished companies when it comes to backing games. But to be fair, after the crappy lords of ragnarok game from awaken realms, I’m more cautious about what I back.
I am a LOST customer... I have been affected, let this reply be added as a data point... :( I've stopped backing KS campaign games because of the Mythic Fiasco from Darkest Dungeon, Siege 6 and Anastyr...:( :( :( I wish it weren't so but my faith has been severely shaken... This 2nd round of selling off IP of Hel & Anastyr was the icing on the cake, the 1st round to Monolith and CMON in additioon to extra funding for Darkest Dungeon and Siege 6 should have been enough to dig them out of their financial hole... :( :( :(
Mythic Games is my reason for no longer backing on Kickstarter. I have backed exactly 25 bigger games, so while not a ton, that's not a small amount either. I'll now only back things produced by Monolith as they at least have not burned me up to this point. Other than that, I'm out of crowd funding.
The only Mythic project I'm backing is Monsterpocalypse, but I'm in pretty deep for that one project. I asked for a refund last March, which hasn't gone anywhere, and tried a chargeback which didn't work out. I am 100% behind people being ticked off at Mythic Games, as I am as well, but not the death threats and doxxing. The only other KS project I'm having issues with is PG's Hyperspace game, and the Invasion faction and misprints for CW, I got the rest finally and sold it all off, as well as the Monpoc stuff I had from Privateer Press. No way I'd give them more money for Monpoc, even if I was 100% sure I'd get the game, and they have not given me any reason to trust them at all. I'll just write it off. Like others have posted, my crowdfunding has dropped like a rock, and am only backing a few things now, partly due to Mythic and Petersen Games.
Mythic employees stole A LOT of money from folks and even had the nerve to use purchases as ransom. Are they actually surprised they received death threats? Where I am from if you steal money from folks you are in a world of hurt. I am not condoning that type of behaviour, but it's an expected reaction to the actions of Mythic. I personally would never act like that(threaten violence), but I know more than a few who would.
I've heavily reduced my backing of crowdfunding boardgames! And while Mythic are a part of the reason for this, it wouldn't be fair to say that I've reduced my backing solely because of them! When you look at all the things that have happened over the last couple of years - board game prices, shipping prices, VAT on top of everything else, delayed campaigns, and failed deliveries - almost all of the industry is to blame. Pretty much the only company I am still happy to back "no questions asked" is Monolith at this point.
I've almost ceased backing games after Monpoc and all this shit happened. I've backed a few rpg books, but boardgames just feel too ambitious and risky after this.
One of the people burned by Rainbow Six Siege , this is just fraud plain and simple lying about one project to fund another is ridiculous. Never doing kickstarter again unless there is legal obligation there , i have friends who make board games and they would never consider doing this to a customer
Yep, I'm done with crowdfunding due to the Jurassic World miniature game and Darkest Dungeon. Full, clear, and open communication was where they went wrong imo. Thanks for the video and well done.
There's more factors tham mythic that slowed me down on crowdfunding but that's 75%. The other 25%really is portal delivering Robinson crusoe more than 2 years late. It is ecg delivering atlantis rising more tan 3 years late. Lucky duck delivering games in game store in Canada before the backers. Destinies is what i'm talking about and at a lower price than i paid. But Mythic going to say that we are pretty much angry about nothing. That takes the cake. Seriously i only backed 6 siege i lost half a week salary on that game i can only imagin the other who backed everything how many hours have been spent working to get nothing in return and we should'nt be angry. Man that guy is something else death threats no. But as you said people theses days need their money and they don't want it stolen like this. In my case i almost stopped backing for theses reasons. Now there only a couple of creators left on my list. Rock manor games, van ryder games ang aeg that delivers on time or close and keep communication open whatever happens. Communication is key and Mythic, portal and ecg have failed on that department miserably.
Right now I'm starting to feel the same way with LSG and Wild Assent. The creator has seemed to be no different then what's happened with Mythic and he's now doing the bare minimum on updates, even after promising the week before his last update to actually prefer an update. I will now not back anything else anymore. Its $500 i've lost and am seeing nothing for it.
Doxxing is a problem when it comes to a vtuber or some other content creator online - you are just sharing ideas and thoughts. But when I do business with someone? When they take my money and lie to me? I expect to be able to know where to find them to look them in the eye or at the very bare minimum where I need to send my legal complaint to. You don't get to take peoples' money and hide behind internet anonymity. Period.
Their problem was mostly that they did like 15 KS campaigns at the same time which is of course totally unworkable (and also not allowed by KS) and I was surprised people kept backing.
Why did Privateer Press not take Mythic to court over what they did to their MonPoc IP? Not only will I not back anything Mythic but I will carry that over to PP as well as they did nothing about it after it happened. What I can see happening is PP doing plastic versions of MonPoc themselves as they own the IP. Sorry, Mythic should be facing jail time at the least and taught a lesson that you commit fraud you will pay for your crime. Kickstarter is a joke on how they handle these issues and at the end of the day they get their cut and move on and people are happy with it as they keep supporting such.
I absolutely have reduced the number of games I back for a few reasons. First, because of failed companies like Mythic, BLG, Grimlord, Inside The Box, etc. and insufficient consequences. Second, I have backed games that turned out to not be worth the money. Third, Kickstarter as a company takes a huge portion of funds without providing any sort of consumer protections before, during, or after the campaign. If I'm interested in a crowdfunded game I'll back at a dollar so KS can have the dime they deserve and upgrade in the PM.
Sorry to everyone that got screwed over by mythic, there's a point when you know what you are doing is right or wrong and they knew when they were doing wrong. They knew and know what they are doing it comes from the top. They are liars plain and simple.
It's not just mythic for me. Companies have to realize that when they get money for games there is a lot of hype and enthusiasm around a game and campaign. 4 years later, people have moved on and would probably rather just absorb the loss while they look at their kalax shelves full unplayed games realizing they have no room for them anyway.
I have made my Peace never getting Monpoc, im just sorry for the Monpoc community. Instead of getting lots of new Player the IP is burnt. I was already looking for Buying the TT version and now i have 0 interesst in this Game anymore, so thats the good Point for me. I for sure had spend more Money on the TT Version so it saved me Money at the Price of not Having this Game, but its not like i have enough other Games, for which i have to less time, anyway. Also i backed 5 Boardgames Projects last year. 2 Fallow up Projects from small Companies that delivered there First Projects first and did their Homework. 3 Games from Companies with Strong Retail presence (Battlesystem, Archon Studio, Modiphius). And i am much more critical for KS and even more for Projects that seems to Big, like Projects saying they ship in Waves. I backed only 1 totaly new Company, but they coming from my own Country
Mythic Games really asked me for another $10 on top of my pledge for the Dark Tapestry alone! And at the same time they try to sell them for $21 on the Black Friday sale. FTW! 🤑🤢🤮 I‘ve got nothing so far, no product, no refund, no reaction, nothing.
I don’t wish anything “bad” upon the persons and their families behind the disaster that has become Mythic Games…I do wish them to be prosecuted within the full extend of the law. I very much feel there is significant fraudulent practices here. Mythic Games, Galaktus Games, Cimmeria Productions, and Flying Frog Productions are the reason I’ve chosen to not crowd fund future projects…especially with Kickstarter.
Since situations like this have been happening at a higher rate I have been a lot more hesitant to back games, especially the ones that are more indie. I didn't back Darkest Dungeon, HEL or any of their more recent games (even though I liked the theme/IP). I do know that I would never personal back another Mythic games project, regardless of what steps they took with current games/projects.
One thing I think is important for context here is that while everything was going great, Leo was perfectly happy to be the face of Mythic Games. He ran regular streams and was active on social media promoting the company and their games. As soon as things finally went south, he completely disappeared and only briefly resurfaces for his shockingly tone deaf 6 Siege video. I just want to point this out because he really wants to the play the victim here about all the bad publicity, but he put himself directly in this position and the decisions leading to this were (at least in part) his.
Mythic's actions have definitely had a cooling effect on my backing habits. I dipped out of my Hel pledge when DD started getting ransomed, and as that situation has spiraled, I've kept that in mind during other KSs. This is coming from someone who has also stuck with APG not since forever, but since 2020 and the dark days of 97%, because of relatively subtle, but earnest differences about how they've improved the business over the years. Poots acting a dummy dummy dingdong yes, scam feelings no.
I have become a lot more hesitant to back boardgames, which tbh isn't a bad thing - I have more games than I can play anyway. I sort of impulsively late backed HEL as I was waiting to get my Oathsworn fix and I really liked the viking chess set that came with the big pledge. :x
tbh if I got millions from pple and I bought house and car and didnt show how those money were spent I would expect jail......but I think they just discovered black hole how to cheat pple and get money
Mythic Games should be an example of how NOT to run a business. They might still try to develop Rise of the Necromancers and Monsterpocalypse because those are IPs licensed by the original partners/publishers. They let go of Anastyr and Hel because these titles were games they bought akin to Super Fantasy Brawl and Solomon Kane (which is public domain if I'm not mistaken). It's trickier with partnered IPs because there are B2B contractual obligations for them to fulfil. Otherwise, they get sued into oblivion. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on my Darkest Dungeon Wave 2. The chances of it ever showing up at my doorstep are low. Oh well, lesson learned.
Yeah. I am very leery of buying games on crowd funded games. This is the third failed game I have backed. Robotech by Palladium, Pacific Rim by Riverhorse, then Darkest Dungeon by Mythic ( actually I might get the game after paying the contribution twice). I used to defend Mythic. But like you said it's a partner that asked for you to cover their portion of rent. Then it becomes a toxic relationship from there.
I have totally pulled back my funding and become more cautious 'cause not just Mythic Games, but for others as well (I was personally burnt by Inside the Box Board Games's Alba campaign). Mythic is the poster board company for this trend/result. I really do research on the company before backing now.
Congrats on the new job! What will you be doing? I fear job hopping, but it seems like that's what is required if you want to keep up with earning industry wages, especially in IT. Companies really like to give you sub 3% raises, which doesn't even keep up with inflation. So, hopefully the job change was on your terms!
Super bummed out by the whole Mythic debacle... I supported two of their games, Hel and RotN. I am somewhat glad that at least CMON will deliver Hel in some form, even if it isn't necessarily what I backed. But RotN I feel will never be delivered, or that I won't be willing to pay extra for it. I tried emailing Mythic support to maybe get my pledge converted to store credit, try and at least get some value for my money, but so far no response from them, probably should just give up on it.
Wasn’t all this said before? To be honest I’m sick of hearing about Mythic. They screwed a lot of people out of money. When this is all said and done they should just disappear forever.
I can accept loosing my money on a KS, but i can't accept that they used my money to deliver games i didn't back. And the tax and VAT money should be the minimum they repay.
Is there any proof of this anywhere? Especially from Mythic. This makes them a Ponzi scheme
Yes totally agree, especially 240 euros of VAT & shipping on a game like Anastyr...
If they collected VAT and didn't pass it on to the government, I hope they can be prosecuted.
That would make sense and about the only legal thing anyone could do. If they collected tax and vat money, it must be used for that I would think. Not sure what could be don3 if anything.
And the shipping. We all paid shipping for HEL now it isn't happening so where's the shipping money?
they deliberately lied to people and then kept open their various late pledges so they could continue to grift money from people KNOWING THEY COULDN'T DELIVER ANY OF THOSE GAMES. they are probably also lying about the threats they received too as a way of garnering sympathy before disappearing into the wind under the guise of "protecting their families". I have no sympathy for them in any way.
I don't think that people from Mythic deserve to have death threats or have their families threatened. However, to say that backers are showing 'unreasonable anger' is being deluded at best?! Mythic have shown zero remorse for this situation, with, to my knowledge, no formal apology. There has been no attempt to explain where the millions of dollars have gone, just a weak excuse about the global situation and a demand for more money. And as backers, we have to take some responsibility, as we were compliant in this charade. For myself, I backed Hel a long time ago and so I will excuse myself with that one. Anastyr, I was foolish to back it when Mythic had so many unfinished projects. That foolishness cost me £500. If I was a backer of Rise of the Necromancers or Monsterpocalypse, I would be very reluctant to give more money to Mythic. In my eyes, it is like being the victim of a robbery and then giving the thief the rest of your cash when you see him again. In fact, that is exactly what it is?!
Just an apology would have gone a long way and Mythic can't even do that?
Sadly, not going to happen. People like them can't apologize because they can't see that what they are doing is wrong. They are right now considering asking for contributions that they will spend on themselves without regard for actually delivering a product. They don't care about you. They don't care about the harm they are doing to honest game developers. They only think about what is best for them. Suckering a bunch of people into sending them more money would be good for them.
@@johnfuhrman2854 If they have "no regard for actually delivering a product" then why are they actually delivering products right now? Wave 1 DD was fulfilled and 6: Siege is on the boats being delivered as we speak. The situation sucks, but besides the lack of a formal apology, the behavior and track record since this whole ordeal started indicates that once they receive the extra money, they spend it on the games and do deliver...
I don’t give a damn about them, they’ll probably never recover trust so maybe they should shut down this clown company. The worst thing is what they did to ks community, probably for many thier campaign was first and last
They're thieves. It's plane and simple. They spent muli millions of dollars on something else apart from what those funds were allocated for.
I didn't give money for HEL only for it to be spent on anything else other than production of HEL.
At some point their behaviour turned from "very bad managment" to "fraud".
Unfortunately business failing is not the same as fraud, although I get why you would feel that way.
I lost somewhere in the region of 1200 because I gave full backing to darkest d and HEL ……they are criminals
@@AdamJorgensen "business failing" is not the same as fraud! Sure, tell me more why they still where creating KS when knowing they would not deliver. ;)
You think people eat ice creams with the forehead!
@AdamJorgensen well it was a pyramid scheme of sorts ...
@@dayz112 I'm pretty sure they were not planning to fail since scam KSes operate very differently but I get it, you're angry and don't want to think.
I don’t understand how there aren’t criminal charges. They fraudulently presented themselves on the kickstarter, how they used the funds, and then charged for post crowdfund services like shipping and shade washing, which “this is not a preorder” blurb doesn’t even cover.
Because crowdfunding is still a very grey area in the law, and as more than half the backers of any given project generally come from the US, it's not likely there will be any legal action due to the complexity of international lawsuits.
@@PRC533 no crowdfunding is very clearly just preorders not grey area and nothing special. Every single person should have performed a charge back months ago.
Crowdfunding anything is seeking investors for your product. I don't believe there is anything anyone could possible do as an investor. It's worded that way specifically. It's not a pre-order store and people need yo stop thinking and treating it like it is.
@@drgnmstr44 NO DUDE STOP. Investing. Investors, these are controlled words by the SEC. Their is crowdfunding platforms that have "investors" but kickstarter IS NOT ONE OF THEM. Stop spreading FUD. Kickstarter is a pre-order platform. Your credit card merchant account recognizes the transactions as preorders as does USA consumer laws. Just because you use the magic words "crowdfunding" does it somehow change the type of transaction and laws surrounding the excahnge for good and services.
People like you spread lies and misinformation and then victims of this will read what you wrote and get taken advantage of because they think they have no recourse.
Crowdfunding doesn’t make fraud not fraud, if you say you’re going to take money for x, then use it on y, you committed fraud. Secondly, calling it investing (at one point is equity given) doesn’t change SEC regulations or absolve them of liability. If it behaves as a preorder system, then it can be argued as one in court regardless if they refuse to call themselves one. Third point they took funds afterwards for expressly “shipping/handling”, “figure shading” and other services which isn’t even within the language of the crowdfunding. Those are undelivered services.
I'm done backing boardgames on Kickstarter because of Mythic Games. They only thing I back are STL projects with digital rewards. All boardgames I buy in retail or 2nd hand market. On Mythic Games, I strongly believe Leo should be punished for his actions in the line of prison time, a huge fine. They should also release their financial records, how was that money spent. They never will, because that would only unveil their ponzi scheme.
Ngl, the thing that’s most upsetting to me is that I hope to be a brand-new board game designer with a KS within the year, and shenanigans from companies with more resources is like they’re plopping in the pool where the rest of us are trying to carefully plan, budget, and deliver an idea but just need crowdfunding to make it real...
Monster apocalypse will go down in my history as the Kickstarter that changed it all. I will no longer back any more crowd funding projects, ever.
@@darthrooster1 I really wanted that game too :(
The amount of games i pulled out of at the last minute with these guys, the gods must have been looking down on me. Darkest dungeon, Hel, Anystyr, six siege, i have all $1 pledges with them.
Same here except for darkest dungeon :D
@@TheKevlol Same, I got caught for $400 with Darkest Dungeon as I was a huge fan of the video game. Definitely a massive lesson that was learned. I have such a sour taste for the game I never even played what was delivered.
Same
+1
Same here. Hel, Anastyr and Monsterpocalypse I was a $1 backer. Neither Darkest Dungeon or Steamwatchers appealed to me. However I backed 6 Siege and paid for the contribution. However I was looking forward to Monsterpocalypse. Now I guess I will back CMON's version fo Hel. But I also consider myself lucky.
Stormsunder is the next in the queue. That's probably no news though.
I thought the idea of crowdfunding is to have an idea already fully developed (in our case that means a fully developed ruleset, fully baked in info/ content, and a thoroughly playtested game) and THEN launch a campaign to simply raise funding to mass manufacture this fully fleshed out/ tested idea, and maybe raise enough money to hire quality artists in unique circumstances (although artwork and graphic design should already be complete at this stage too.) So the crowdfund is only used to produce something at scale.
But I’ve seen countless crowdfunding campaigns that give the impression they are complete ideas (with artwork, minis, and all) and ask for funding, only to turn around to say they are still developing art, rules, etc. before it can go into production. It just seems contrary to what crowdfunding is meant for. I thought all that stuff would already be taken care of IN ADDITION to already knowing which manufacturing and shipping partners would be used (their cost estimates would/ should be baked into the asking price for each product unit, with buffer room to spare for unforeseen shipping expenses.) That way, backers get their game investment sooner rather than later. I just think it’s odd to not already have a complete game that’s been developed with a fine-tooth comb before asking the public to raise funds to get it printed and shipped
Just editing to say that I also understand when they get a lot more playtesters once they launch a campaign since it naturally gets more attention. So it’s also a good thing to further develop the game before it officially gets the stamp of approval to print. Perhaps the solution is simply transparency around an extended timeline to include post-fund development (tweaking final details and such with more playtesters before ordering a print)
Thats a common misconception. It depends on whats being developed; and it IS the responsibility of the project runners to make that information clear. But its also up to the backers to do their research, and weigh the risks, in spite of whatever the project runners are promising. Clarity from on one side is just as important as healthy skepticism from the other side. Sadly not many people seem to be able to read into something without ending up on one of two extremes... IE: Hype and/or Cynicism.
Prototyping is very expensive. Tooling factories for production is expensive (thats no exception here with printed material). Sampling and refinement is costly in both time and money. If they were fully ready for production- it would had been way easier to simply find traditional investors, since the bigger risks would already been mitigated on someone else's dime.
Now don't get me wrong.... this situation is pretty much their fault, and their failure to follow through is something to be mad about (on top of making it worse). But I'm speaking out because I'm getting fatigued with the fundamental misunderstanding people have with crowdfunding, and how too many people think its just a straight preorder. While transparency is good..... historically I have rarely seen backers handle delays and significant changes well; regardless of how it might be better for the project in the long run. Often there are demands for reparations, in the form of more costly additions to backer rewards, starts out scaling the practical ability of a group to deliver, while already mired by some kind of set back or problem.
I've had this happen with 2 projects I've backed, as the prototyping and quality control for production was discovered to be financially untenable. Normally their current progress is enough to look for additional private investment; but thats never a guarantee it'll work out.
As an example- The STEM controller project folded are multiple years of issues trying to get the production costs down enough to not be a loss, and fix reliability issues with the sensors. They were able to secure funding from an outside investment group, closed the project, and subsequently cancelled all the orders. However, in a rare twist, they worked out a deal where they used that money to refund backers, and then pivoted the entire company to focus on R&D for medical applications.
Another example was We Happy Few (I wasn't a part of this one), where in the end, the game was sold for a stake with a publisher late in production... and that publisher proceeded to demand the game be carved up into multi-tiered editions- a thing popular at the time. I'm pretty sure its fairly well documented, so you can look up the whole story yourself. But backers were pretty livid, because publisher involvement is one of things people go to crowdfunding in order to avoid.
In a lot of ways you have to think of KS and Crowdfunded projects as one would think about traditional VC investment. Except instead of getting a cash-based ROI, you get the first run of production of whatever it is they're trying to get to market. The risks are substantial, and the nature of the project may change for a myriad of reasons. And thats not even going into the obvious set of problems with mismanagement, inexperienced project runners, and straight up scams. You always have to hold on to the possibility that it will end in a total wash, and come to terms with that.
At this point I'm just hoping that wave 2 of Darkest Dungeon delivers in some shape or form (preferably all of it).
I'll be happy if I get it, but I'm not holding out a lot of hope
The game really feels incomplete without the other heroes. While the game is playable and incredibly fun from the base game alone, some of the heroes do not synergize well together.
Agreed, it's a great game but the additional stuff is sorely needed. Even though the contribution sucked I really hope we are going to get it.
I mean, at the moment we don't have the Man-at Arms yet so all those Guard tokens are sitting around waiting to be utilised......
Especially because we paid for shipping 3 times for it.
I’m much more selective in my crowdfunding mainly due to Budget, but hearing about the Mythic situation is certainly contributing to my increased restraint as well. While I personally have not been burned by the Mythic games situation specifically, (I do have 1 game they produced/distributed), I have been severely burned by another company that has notoriously left backers high and dry.
I've cut my yearly KS/GF spending by at least 75%. Backing is much riskier than it used to be and the value we are getting for our pledge money is much less.
Companies on crowdfunding are starting to actively prevent FLG's to undermine their prices, which means they are basically charging at or even above retail prices on their campaigns which is insane.
So I haven’t heard any one yet discuss what has happened to the very large sum they received for the two sold IP’s… like great, those two games are no longer going to be produced under mythic but why is that funding not enough to pay for completing any of their other projects…
Because they spent money faster than it was coming in and have nothing left but a big pile of unpaid bills. It may have started as poor business management, but at some point it became fraud.
How much did they get paid? I hadn't heard that they got money for those IPs from CMON, more than a nominal sum at least.
@@GoodEggGuyno one knows, but you would think it was a decent amount. Then again CMON may have got them dirt cheap since Mythic knew there was no feasible way they could actually make those games. Mythic may have thought it better to get something out of them than nothing at all
I bet they bought the IPs for a symbolic amount with a promise to send a core box to existing backers.
@@walkingtheland1Agreed.
Since the Mythic/Peterson ... etc Situation I stopped backing from brand new companies, companies that have too much currently undelivered products and companies that had issues in the past for example a year or more fulfillment delay
So... you've stopped any ccrowdfunding.
@@bluedevil3d104 not all but most
Stop with the click-bait video titles please. As others have pointed out, there's nothing new being said here and a lot of rambling/repeating too. I want to hear about Mythic Games since I backed Darkest Dungeon... and when I see a video titled "Mythic is Finished" I expect the video content to reflect the title. Mythic is close to being finished (like they have been for years now), but they are not "FINISHED".
/eyeroll
Waiting for the next click bait title “Kickstarter is dead” now that CMON have signed exclusively for Gamefound.
I think your personal disagreement with something doesn't mean something is clickbaity. I spend plenty of this video discussing the future of Mythic Games both in how they aren't sure if they'll even ask for more contributions but also, and this was indeed new info I hadn't covered before, if they will continue as a company. I clearly stayed my point that they will not continue.
All of that is very in line with the title and messaging. It's fine to disagree, it's fine to not care for a video's content or message, I cannot make videos tailored to specific people and when expressing opinions we're bound to disagree sometimes, but I don't feel any of the above makes this video clickbait. I titled it exactly how my closing thoughts state.
I do appreciate your feedback of course and I hope my explanation here helps let you know where my thought process is for it:)
@@TheKingofAverage it is Clickbait though. The title implies that you’ve got new information that is rather dramatic and urgent
@@jebprice68 that's just you reading into it. I'm stating my opinion and sharing why I think that. I can see why you'd think that but again I can't make something that fits every person's line of thought or way of thinking. To me I'm just stating my conclusion and the 2nd whole half of the video. Neither is "right", it's just two trails of thought :) I hope that regardless of your alignment with the thumbnail that you enjoyed the video. :)
Bah. Leon has an ego complex and is incompetent at business. Mythic games should die and leave the industry to competent talented people. Their games were flitzy and glossy but also shoddy, a mess and not that good in the end. A reflection of the poor qualities Leon had. He just rode on the bull market of kickstarterswhile he could. He never learned
The amount of comments on your last video defending the death threats was insane. I remember one where the guy was like "he fed his wife and kids with my money so they're in this too". Completely insane. I would also be really afraid if I were him.
Its not that hard guys. Mythic=bad. Deaththreats=really bad. Both can be true at the same time.
None of the people here are in anyway aggressive outside of the internet 😂 that's if you believe his Leo's bullshit
Welcome to the internet...
I don´t think that not even trying would be better. Yes, It would be faster, but that would have been 5-6 (not sure how many) mythic campaigns totally undelivered and a massive stain to crowdfunding, with tens of thousands of backers left with nothing to see in exchange for millions taken in funding. So, as bad as it is to ask for contributions, it still feels better than a complete fail and seeing all that money vanishing, also it shows that the money at least went into something, imho. That being said, personally I back a looot less than before, after these issues and some other minor burns related to unconvincingly explained shipping hikes from other companies.
Indeed I stop all crowdfunding. Was so upset and still, extra for 'shipping' ... but paying again almost full value is a big fail.
And Kickstarter doesn't care and still show on their first page 253 524 projects funded for
$7 820 599 544 BILLIONS dollars. Show NO responsibility.
To be honest I can't help but feel as though this should escalate to a criminal investigation, as consideration has to be given to the time involved and the way they actively and knowingly mislead the community to secure funds through deception. I would even argue that at a minimum Mythic need to be offering some degree of compensation and in an ideal world those involved with the campaigns and finances of Mythic should face jail time.
There are no signs of remorse here and as such they should be treated like any other criminal.
Ah great...instead of mythic now we gotta deal with CMON chopping everything up and reselling it as 51 separate SKUs.
They are both cancerous companies.
I obviously dont condone any of the threats made to mythic. But i dont think any of the upper management should work in the games industry again
Blacklist games was what killed crowdfunding for me. Also once it started taking boardgames an average of two years to complete a game (if not more) I am back to buying just retail now. I am not willing to risk my money anymore, the risk is getting too high.
Only backing CMON and Into the Unknown games from now on.
I have dramatically reduced my crowdfunding backing. Not because of Mythic Games, but because of Petersen Games. So, it's the same situation with a different company.
I think thet the proper title to this video would be "I think MG is finished"
The title may rise expectations that you have some oficial new info that we dont know .
I enyoed the video, but if you consider the title more carefuly there would be no negative feedback.
I dont think that it helps the industry if they just walk away and there wont be any concequences to them, they commited fraud when tehy launched 5 campaings for which they clearly did not have funds to produce.
And I wonder what they did with that money, cause they neted a huge pile for all of their campaings. Other companies with that cashflow would deliver I think.
As for me I have more games that I can play in my whole life and I'm in this buisness heavily for 3 years , so personaly I dont care what will become with them, I'm sad we wont see those games, I think they could have been special.
But I think I need a little justice to be absolutely OK , I took an oportunity and reverted my pledge for Anastyr for store credit and got DD a game I wont play most likely and hardly sell it on SH market in my country but at least I've got some nice minis and cut my loses to 200$.
So they done fine by me but fucked up a lot of other people.
While Flyos is the nail in the coffin for me ever backing another game, mythos just reinforced the truth that kickstarter is a company that lets scams fund on their platform and doesn't care as long as they get their cut. Never again will i back another kickstarter.
I'm backing off on crowdfunding a lot, the prices just aren't worth it any more, and if a game is actually really good, they'll run a second campaign usually, and can just buy the good ones then.
Unless it's a proven publisher, and I know it's a game that is right up my alley, I'm just passing.
Thankfully I haven't backed any games by these companies, like Mythic or Petersen, even though I was tempted by a few.
Publishers have done this to themselves.
Holy Grail Games did exactly the same thing last year, creating projects they knew they would never fulfil, and using backer money to fulfil other projects. There has to be more safeguards in place for backers.
Hey KOA. I'm so happy that I just barely missed this disaster. I feel bad for those roped in.I've been meaning to ask, did you ever hear anything back from Lazy Squire? This video reminded me of them, unfortnately. They're even doing the slow roll Blacklist games move w/ a few sculpts at a time stretch out the BS or just showing off a few cards and small mechanics that backers just don't care about anymore. There's no transparency whatsoever. I feel like I speak for many backers when I say that appreciated your previous efforts in bringing that situation to light, because we are at the point where we just feel helpless in left in the dark waiting for a disaster to happen. Can you shed any more light on that situation? They have really put me off on crowdfunding. Not much since :( Sorry for the rant and Thanks for the videos my dude!
Love when criminals play the victim.
Keep it above board guys. There's legal avenues if you think what MG did is wrong. In fact, I would encourage to do so if you think there's fraud (I don't but if you do go forward). If you think there's a class action lawsuit possibility, for laws broken, and spoken to a lawyer that specializes in that law in that region of the world, go for it. You can report to government agencies on taxes for products not received if such a thing exist, such as EU or Luxemburg government. You can push for more regulations involving crowdfunding. You can file a complaint with your bank and file a dispute. I'm all for holding devs accountable. But keep it above board. Going after someone's family over board games is really dumb.
I think the problem with KS is what I’m calling the golden age 2019-2022.
Kickstarter made so many amazing huge campaigns and huge games that take many months to complete.
Backers ended up buying them all.
Now we have so many games delviered and undelivered that it’s really hard to have the desire to back new games.
Yeah pretty much this. My backlog is so huge right now from the games that actually did deliver, not to mention keeping up with games like Marvel Champions, Legendary or Summoner Wars at retail makes all the games I backed 3-4 years ago that never delivered kinda pointless.
I don't need those games anymore and for them to ask for MORE money when the enthusiasm is long gone....It was much different back when I only had a few board games compared to the dozens and dozens I have now, so their effort is a lost cause.
i got a lot more cautious after hearing this. and although i am not affected here, i am affected by judgement, and i am down 450€. so yeah, it seems that the golden age of boardgame kickstarters is over.
i am not very willing to take risks anymore, as i think it will get worse.
and besides that i recently saw more and more games end up on amazon and at retailers before backers got them. so again, why should we take the risk?
on top of that you see many creators offering a ‘last chance to back’ right before the game is shipped. at that point you know the game is produced. you might miss out on one or two small expansions, but at least you minimize your risk of not getting anything!
There have been multiple reports of people obtaining a full refund via taking Mythic to small claims court (Justice of The Peace Court 13 in Delaware). Mythic confirmed at least one of these reports.
So your options are "let it go", "Just give them more money when they ask", and "Small claims court to get your money back."
I think the whole landscape of crowdfunding games have changed since 2019, you don't get the discounts, exclusive stuff (as much) and some creators usually go retail and then you end up paying less for the same amount of stuff.
I have not backed anything this year so far (I don't think) I am planning on backing Dantes inferno and I think that will be it for this year.
After 3 outstanding kickstarters from Awaken Realms (including one during COVID) I definitely became sold on Kickstarter board games. When I saw the 6 Siege campaign from a publisher which looked to have run several successful crowdfunded games before (and could point to those games as evidence of their reliability) I had no real red flags that would lead me to suspect this campaign would end up being a mismanaged mess. Delays are understandable, even increasing material costs are understandable, but ultimately they chose to set the price for their game and charge for shipping during the kickstarter, rather than later after development. For them to use the shipping funds for development costs without even telling the backers was really frustrating. Overall the woeful communication from Mythic on 6 Siege and their other projects was inexcusable.
I definitely am unlikely to back another kickstarter game at this point. It's just not worth the anxiety.
I've said this before on a video I made but listen to Leo's language. He is NOT GETTING IT. He refuses to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. He won't take full accountability for what is happening. Now the death threats... --- Look I PREACH forgiveness. I forgive him and the company. But I'm pointing out to everyone: This man is NOT taking responsibility for his actions and he is not getting. He's a VICTIM. It happened to him. Covid. Shipping Crisis. Now he doesn't know if he can go forward if everyone is MAD at him. Again, I forgive him, would hug him and give him a dollar in the street if he needed it. But he's not taking responsibility for his own life. He's full of CRAP. --- | Now do I slow down my Kickstarter backing because I'm out on Hel and Monpoc? Nope. I am a responsible human and took acceptable risks. Sucks to lose them. Worse than the money is the idea that MonPoc, which just looks so FUN, will probably never get made. I could go play the old Privateer Press version, but I was really looking forward to the game. Hopefully CMON redeems itself with Hel, after a really lackluster Trudvang Legends.
I fully backed the Siege game. With shipping it came to 349 US dollars. When they asked for more money they also sent a link for a refund. Twice I asked for my money back. I never heard any response from MG. Since they reached their goal they have sent emails asking for shipping verification. So I figured the game was coming. It is clear the game is not coming as people have already got theirs. They have been silent through emails asking for a refund or the game. I will never back any other project on KS ever. I can accept losing money, but the gall of ignoring all of us is what frosts my cookies.
Watching to see if there's anything new here? Be good if you could put a description to what you mean by finished.. like they've been dead ducks as a company for ages.. what's changed?
Thanks for the video.
I hate being negative in comments, but my losses to Mythic campaigns really soured me on crowd-funding. Leo really put his face on the company and I hope I never see it near another campaign.
1,000% have slowed down on crowdfunding because of my experience with 2 Mythic projects. Number of unfulfilled projects a HUGE indicator for me when considering to back stuff now.
i will never back ANYTHING again on KS because of this, or at least not until consumer laws get passed to protect backers properly
Death Threats and Doxing are not ok: BUT what isn't ok is saying oh all the bad stuff we did now can be forgiven cause we got threatened.
No that does not excuse you. Mythic Games you cannot weasel your way out of this! Pay up or Shut up
As to your question about Kickstarter: I will NEVER touch another Kickstarter campaign or *ANY* pre-development pre-sale platform until they admit that they ARE pre-development pre-sale platforms and adhere to internet sales laws, or until those laws and the enforcement thereof catches up to this platform. I don't care who the company is, what the product is - I will not spend money on a system that permits zero accountability and allows someone to hide behind internet anonymity after they've stolen from people.
[EDIT]: I was an 'all in' backer for Darkest Dungeon. My refund has been in limbo since July 2022 and I am currently pursuing legal actions.
Not only Mythic. Kickstarter is an investment... they can get lost...
The cost are rising: inflation, energy house and the VAT we have to pay for the boardgames.
Also a reason I only go EU boardgames and minis kickstarters
would be great if kickstarter actually held them to task and made them produce a sheet on where the money went. That would then show truly the level of trouble
Kickstarter PBC is just happy to take their 10% "processing charge" (they do not consider it a commission as that would make them an agent in the transaction). They now hold that they are legally just a credit card processing facility, and are thus protected by the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (1974), which guarentees them immunity from being considered an agent in the transaction and they will do the utmost to protect this status. Thus you will never see accountability from them.
Kickstarter and others must have realised Mythic Games' had an abysmal track record before they agreed to host 6:Siege. Did they conduct due diligence or are they simply hosting dead horses on a gambling site? I feel sorry for Ubisoft, who's name and reputation are also sorely tarnished.
At this point we need to be honest that this company is committing fraud. They literally still have pre-orders available on their website for Rise of the Necromancers. No statements about it potentially not being delivered or there being more "contributions" later on. Just a straight pre-order of a game. If it doesn't deliver for that cost, that is fraud.
Good riddance, just a poorly run company, if there is any silver lining then it's given everyone a wake-up call when it comes to handing over hard earned money to KS campaigns
The only way Mythic continues as a business now is by rerunning kickstarters for old IPs such as 6 siege at a much higher cost to cover their previous projects. The problem is that they've likely lost the IP for Siege so can't do a year 5/6/7 etc... They have the game developed, they have the files, a big chunk of that cycle is done for them already.
Also, releasing updates saying a game is finished, or the rules are finished, while a late pledge manager is open, is fraudulent behaviour.
Backed Darkest Dungeon, Monsterapoc and Necromancers. I am kind of screwed
I have two different things that have impacted my backing of crowd funded board games. First up, I would never, ever, back anything from Mythic (or anyone involved with Mythic) ever again. Second, I have drastically reduced (to almost zero) the amount of stuff I back on Crowd Funding Platforms because I am so fed up with getting surprise screwed on the shipping.
Mythic owners need to be held accountable personally and their assets seized in my opinion. If as you say they lied about where the games were when they asked for money, that's surely fraud
When you look at the bad companies,you can see the two most common things done wrong are communication with backers and project management. Communication is the easiest thing to fix and correct. How you communicate with backers and the community is important as this is the face of your company. It does not matter how good of a thing you deliver if your communication is poor. It could be the best thing since sliced bread but if you cant communicate properly with the communities/backers then no one will see that sonce the good will be drowned out by all the bad. Be honest and truthful about things. You make a mistake you need to own it, appologize and correct it.
Project management issues come in a lot of forms but the biggest is an over ambitious campaign with tons of stretch goals. If you weren't planning on all of that, then your game is going to cost more and be delayed. This is generally called scope creep and it hurts every time it happens in a lot of industries. Not having the business sense to know when you need to start looking at different steps and ensuring you have the funds allocated to later steps. If you know you need 50,000 to cover shipping then you better put thst 50,000 aside for thst and not touch it.
Im taking the loss on Monsterpocalypse. I wasn't super confident in it when i backed it and only did the base game. If I was the ownership, I'd shut the doors.
I do respect your opinion and point of view. That being said, my opinion on this one doesn’t align with yours. If they don’t at least make an attempt (even it’s a feeble one) to work with people to finish the pledges it’s a bigger slap to the face than not. Just how I feel. I lost out on Anastyr. But if they just close shop before even trying to get Monsterpocalypse out after I paid $600 bucks… feels worse. that game was based on an existing property so unlike the two they sold it should be mostly designed. I get the financial “contribution” may be outrageous and it may be so high I walk away… but I think we deserve the option to walk away. Set your contribution amount, set your backer % that you need for funding (let’s be honest it would be from scratch funding) … then let us make the choice. I sympathize with the hard time they are dealing with, but also feel they have a responsibility to try. At the least. If you don’t get enough backers to fund the printing, fine. But give us that option. They owe us that much at least. Just my 2 cents.
Edit: spelling. Also, thanks for keeping us informed!! I wouldn’t have known about this interview otherwise.
Edit2: congrats on the new job and good luck!!!
Anyone who sends them a contribution is being foolish. It is more likely than not that Mystic Games will just spend that money on previous expenses and they will get nothing.
I'm only backing big companies like CMON. No more indies. All in with mythic R6S....learned my lesson.
I was scaling back anyway as I have far too many board games (I haven't bought a game never mind Kickstartered one since this whole debacle) but yeah I think Darkest Dungeon is going to be my last Kickstarter. It's a great idea and I love so much stuff I've backed, but the tools to ensure reasonable accountability and vetting needs to be so much better to minimise things like this.
As well as fellow backers, its the workers at the coalface of Mythic (like the packers and basically anyone who had no part in the business and decision making process) I feel sorry for, especially if they stand to lose their jobs.
@Mr King: Usually i don't bother writing, but now that you mentioned it several times i would like to make a suggestion and also adress some points:
Disclaimer:
1) I agree with 90% of what you are saying.
2) I also am affected by darkest dungeon and Petersen Games, but i never care about kickstarter stuff. Because i treat it from the moment i spend the money as luxury stuff, i don't need anyway, with money i also don't need anyway. Otherwise i don't invest.
The points:
3) I find you mentioning "people (as in "accused owners of kickstarter problem companies") being real people and having real lifes" always sounds very apologetic. Like it makes up for everything people do. Maybe you could elaborate on that a bit more. Beause you also always say, that those real people feed their family with our real money. Obviously there are areas within the interpretative spectrum of this statement where it becomes ridiculous. Especially if you look at the extreme sides of the range. But maybe it's time for ...
4) ... educating your viewership a bit about investments in general and how this stuff works outside of kickstarter. Especially the difference between promissary notes, shares and kickstarter-like plattforms - and why over time pretty much the whole world thought it would probably be a REALLY good idea, that risky stuff concerning money, should have some kind of legal consequences and backup. Mainly because a) people can be really picky about "getting their moneys worth", even if they didn't get their promised return. And b) "personal money" is basically USUALLY the equivalency of ones previously invested lifetime, to make the upcoming lifetime of oneself and of their emotionally invested people (a.k.a. loved ones) easier.
I'm only into this mess for Monsterpocalypse, but for a big amount (over $600, I think). I don't expect it now. They should just go away, and never return to this industry. And, yes, now I am very, very selective about what I do and don't crowd-fund. That number has significantly decreased due to the Mythic Games situation. Sad.
Never ever backing a kickstarter board game again, its too easy for projects to just fob you off and run away with your money. Mythic has taken the piss and nobody has held their feet to the fire over it.
Congrats on the new job! Thanks for what you add to the conversation.
Yep, I don’t back an indie or unestablished companies when it comes to backing games.
But to be fair, after the crappy lords of ragnarok game from awaken realms, I’m more cautious about what I back.
I am a LOST customer... I have been affected, let this reply be added as a data point... :( I've stopped backing KS campaign games because of the Mythic Fiasco from Darkest Dungeon, Siege 6 and Anastyr...:( :( :( I wish it weren't so but my faith has been severely shaken...
This 2nd round of selling off IP of Hel & Anastyr was the icing on the cake, the 1st round to Monolith and CMON in additioon to extra funding for Darkest Dungeon and Siege 6 should have been enough to dig them out of their financial hole... :( :( :(
What's crazy is they sold it, and yet that's not enough to deliver anything so it's practically worthless :(
Mythic Games is my reason for no longer backing on Kickstarter. I have backed exactly 25 bigger games, so while not a ton, that's not a small amount either. I'll now only back things produced by Monolith as they at least have not burned me up to this point. Other than that, I'm out of crowd funding.
The only Mythic project I'm backing is Monsterpocalypse, but I'm in pretty deep for that one project. I asked for a refund last March, which hasn't gone anywhere, and tried a chargeback which didn't work out. I am 100% behind people being ticked off at Mythic Games, as I am as well, but not the death threats and doxxing. The only other KS project I'm having issues with is PG's Hyperspace game, and the Invasion faction and misprints for CW, I got the rest finally and sold it all off, as well as the Monpoc stuff I had from Privateer Press.
No way I'd give them more money for Monpoc, even if I was 100% sure I'd get the game, and they have not given me any reason to trust them at all. I'll just write it off.
Like others have posted, my crowdfunding has dropped like a rock, and am only backing a few things now, partly due to Mythic and Petersen Games.
Mythic employees stole A LOT of money from folks and even had the nerve to use purchases as ransom. Are they actually surprised they received death threats? Where I am from if you steal money from folks you are in a world of hurt. I am not condoning that type of behaviour, but it's an expected reaction to the actions of Mythic. I personally would never act like that(threaten violence), but I know more than a few who would.
I've heavily reduced my backing of crowdfunding boardgames! And while Mythic are a part of the reason for this, it wouldn't be fair to say that I've reduced my backing solely because of them! When you look at all the things that have happened over the last couple of years - board game prices, shipping prices, VAT on top of everything else, delayed campaigns, and failed deliveries - almost all of the industry is to blame. Pretty much the only company I am still happy to back "no questions asked" is Monolith at this point.
I've almost ceased backing games after Monpoc and all this shit happened.
I've backed a few rpg books, but boardgames just feel too ambitious and risky after this.
One of the people burned by Rainbow Six Siege , this is just fraud plain and simple lying about one project to fund another is ridiculous.
Never doing kickstarter again unless there is legal obligation there , i have friends who make board games and they would never consider doing this to a customer
Yep, I'm done with crowdfunding due to the Jurassic World miniature game and Darkest Dungeon. Full, clear, and open communication was where they went wrong imo. Thanks for the video and well done.
There's more factors tham mythic that slowed me down on crowdfunding but that's 75%. The other 25%really is portal delivering Robinson crusoe more than 2 years late. It is ecg delivering atlantis rising more tan 3 years late. Lucky duck delivering games in game store in Canada before the backers. Destinies is what i'm talking about and at a lower price than i paid. But Mythic going to say that we are pretty much angry about nothing. That takes the cake. Seriously i only backed 6 siege i lost half a week salary on that game i can only imagin the other who backed everything how many hours have been spent working to get nothing in return and we should'nt be angry. Man that guy is something else death threats no. But as you said people theses days need their money and they don't want it stolen like this. In my case i almost stopped backing for theses reasons. Now there only a couple of creators left on my list. Rock manor games, van ryder games ang aeg that delivers on time or close and keep communication open whatever happens. Communication is key and Mythic, portal and ecg have failed on that department miserably.
Right now I'm starting to feel the same way with LSG and Wild Assent. The creator has seemed to be no different then what's happened with Mythic and he's now doing the bare minimum on updates, even after promising the week before his last update to actually prefer an update.
I will now not back anything else anymore. Its $500 i've lost and am seeing nothing for it.
Doxxing is a problem when it comes to a vtuber or some other content creator online - you are just sharing ideas and thoughts. But when I do business with someone? When they take my money and lie to me? I expect to be able to know where to find them to look them in the eye or at the very bare minimum where I need to send my legal complaint to. You don't get to take peoples' money and hide behind internet anonymity. Period.
Their problem was mostly that they did like 15 KS campaigns at the same time which is of course totally unworkable (and also not allowed by KS) and I was surprised people kept backing.
Why did Privateer Press not take Mythic to court over what they did to their MonPoc IP? Not only will I not back anything Mythic but I will carry that over to PP as well as they did nothing about it after it happened.
What I can see happening is PP doing plastic versions of MonPoc themselves as they own the IP. Sorry, Mythic should be facing jail time at the least and taught a lesson that you commit fraud you will pay for your crime.
Kickstarter is a joke on how they handle these issues and at the end of the day they get their cut and move on and people are happy with it as they keep supporting such.
I honestly have no sympathy for Mythic games. These are the consequences of lying and greed .
I backed games for almost 9 years now. I am out. Maybe a Cmon or Awaken, as the boardgame crowdfunding industry turns into a ponzi scheme.
This is why you never back a company once they fail to deliver on their project, especially if they are stating another one before ending the first
Looking at this - there is no way I’d fund through KS. I’ll either wait until it comes to market or I’ll go without.
I absolutely have reduced the number of games I back for a few reasons.
First, because of failed companies like Mythic, BLG, Grimlord, Inside The Box, etc. and insufficient consequences.
Second, I have backed games that turned out to not be worth the money.
Third, Kickstarter as a company takes a huge portion of funds without providing any sort of consumer protections before, during, or after the campaign. If I'm interested in a crowdfunded game I'll back at a dollar so KS can have the dime they deserve and upgrade in the PM.
Sorry to everyone that got screwed over by mythic, there's a point when you know what you are doing is right or wrong and they knew when they were doing wrong. They knew and know what they are doing it comes from the top. They are liars plain and simple.
It's not just mythic for me. Companies have to realize that when they get money for games there is a lot of hype and enthusiasm around a game and campaign. 4 years later, people have moved on and would probably rather just absorb the loss while they look at their kalax shelves full unplayed games realizing they have no room for them anyway.
I have made my Peace never getting Monpoc, im just sorry for the Monpoc community. Instead of getting lots of new Player the IP is burnt. I was already looking for Buying the TT version and now i have 0 interesst in this Game anymore, so thats the good Point for me. I for sure had spend more Money on the TT Version so it saved me Money at the Price of not Having this Game, but its not like i have enough other Games, for which i have to less time, anyway. Also i backed 5 Boardgames Projects last year. 2 Fallow up Projects from small Companies that delivered there First Projects first and did their Homework. 3 Games from Companies with Strong Retail presence (Battlesystem, Archon Studio, Modiphius). And i am much more critical for KS and even more for Projects that seems to Big, like Projects saying they ship in Waves. I backed only 1 totaly new Company, but they coming from my own Country
I have less disposable income but I haven't backed a game since Mythic.
Mythic Games really asked me for another $10 on top of my pledge for the Dark Tapestry alone! And at the same time they try to sell them for $21 on the Black Friday sale. FTW! 🤑🤢🤮 I‘ve got nothing so far, no product, no refund, no reaction, nothing.
I don’t wish anything “bad” upon the persons and their families behind the disaster that has become Mythic Games…I do wish them to be prosecuted within the full extend of the law. I very much feel there is significant fraudulent practices here. Mythic Games, Galaktus Games, Cimmeria Productions, and Flying Frog Productions are the reason I’ve chosen to not crowd fund future projects…especially with Kickstarter.
Since situations like this have been happening at a higher rate I have been a lot more hesitant to back games, especially the ones that are more indie. I didn't back Darkest Dungeon, HEL or any of their more recent games (even though I liked the theme/IP). I do know that I would never personal back another Mythic games project, regardless of what steps they took with current games/projects.
One thing I think is important for context here is that while everything was going great, Leo was perfectly happy to be the face of Mythic Games. He ran regular streams and was active on social media promoting the company and their games. As soon as things finally went south, he completely disappeared and only briefly resurfaces for his shockingly tone deaf 6 Siege video. I just want to point this out because he really wants to the play the victim here about all the bad publicity, but he put himself directly in this position and the decisions leading to this were (at least in part) his.
Mythic's actions have definitely had a cooling effect on my backing habits. I dipped out of my Hel pledge when DD started getting ransomed, and as that situation has spiraled, I've kept that in mind during other KSs. This is coming from someone who has also stuck with APG not since forever, but since 2020 and the dark days of 97%, because of relatively subtle, but earnest differences about how they've improved the business over the years. Poots acting a dummy dummy dingdong yes, scam feelings no.
I have become a lot more hesitant to back boardgames, which tbh isn't a bad thing - I have more games than I can play anyway.
I sort of impulsively late backed HEL as I was waiting to get my Oathsworn fix and I really liked the viking chess set that came with the big pledge. :x
tbh if I got millions from pple and I bought house and car and didnt show how those money were spent I would expect jail......but I think they just discovered black hole how to cheat pple and get money
Mythic Games should be an example of how NOT to run a business. They might still try to develop Rise of the Necromancers and Monsterpocalypse because those are IPs licensed by the original partners/publishers. They let go of Anastyr and Hel because these titles were games they bought akin to Super Fantasy Brawl and Solomon Kane (which is public domain if I'm not mistaken). It's trickier with partnered IPs because there are B2B contractual obligations for them to fulfil. Otherwise, they get sued into oblivion.
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on my Darkest Dungeon Wave 2. The chances of it ever showing up at my doorstep are low. Oh well, lesson learned.
Yeah. I am very leery of buying games on crowd funded games. This is the third failed game I have backed. Robotech by Palladium, Pacific Rim by Riverhorse, then Darkest Dungeon by Mythic ( actually I might get the game after paying the contribution twice).
I used to defend Mythic. But like you said it's a partner that asked for you to cover their portion of rent. Then it becomes a toxic relationship from there.
I have totally pulled back my funding and become more cautious 'cause not just Mythic Games, but for others as well (I was personally burnt by Inside the Box Board Games's Alba campaign). Mythic is the poster board company for this trend/result. I really do research on the company before backing now.
Congrats on the new job! What will you be doing? I fear job hopping, but it seems like that's what is required if you want to keep up with earning industry wages, especially in IT. Companies really like to give you sub 3% raises, which doesn't even keep up with inflation. So, hopefully the job change was on your terms!
Super bummed out by the whole Mythic debacle... I supported two of their games, Hel and RotN. I am somewhat glad that at least CMON will deliver Hel in some form, even if it isn't necessarily what I backed. But RotN I feel will never be delivered, or that I won't be willing to pay extra for it. I tried emailing Mythic support to maybe get my pledge converted to store credit, try and at least get some value for my money, but so far no response from them, probably should just give up on it.
Wasn’t all this said before?
To be honest I’m sick of hearing about Mythic. They screwed a lot of people out of money.
When this is all said and done they should just disappear forever.