In the '90s, I worked with a consultant who had led the Motorola team that built AMF's original automatic scorekeeping system. Brunswick had beaten AMF to the punch and AMF's own in-house team was nowhere near ready to release anything, so they scrubbed that project and farmed it out to Moto. They designed and shipped their system in about a year. His tales of its development and especially the testing were wild. I find it interesting that these early Brunswick prototypes both didn't go through a full cycle when detecting that a full set of pins was standing after a gutter ball - yet the systems they eventually shipped didn't operate this way, going through a full sweep cycle regardless. Also funny how the sweep bar rose way early, leaving the pinspotter hardware exposed longer than it should have been.
Yea, I'm bamfoozled how detection tech was engaged in this unit and the '46 AMF unit, yet those A-2s that I've often bowled on since I was a young one went through the full cycle no matter what pins were/weren't hit. If you own an alley, you really rather the machine do as little cycling/motion as possible to reduce wear on the equipment and save on the light bill. I could be speaking out of turn, but I want to say I read that there are electronic upgrades that you can get for many of the older 60s-80s units to give them some of those operatory features as say the newer Qubica machines seem to offer (haven't been to a modern enough alley to see those in action, but based on their sales brochure I've seen online they are pretty sweet machines).
@@JadeDragon407 could be whatever mechanism they had to detect added too much complexity and introduced more breakdowns than they eliminated. Probably just simpler to do the same rite cycle Everytime. What I want to know is how that one pinspotter detected the strike with no contact, before automatic scoring and their cameras were introduced. Pindeck weight? Magnets in the pins and leaf switches in the pindeck? And if so, why could it only detect a strike without reeling, but had to feel for the other leaves? I suspect the strike cycle may have been "simulated".
To put this into perspective: serial numbers on Brunswick pinsetters start at 5200, which had a build date of July, 1957. According to a list obtained at bowl tech.com, Serial numbers below 50000 were made by Otis Elevator Company for Brunswick. Final "A" Pinsetter was made on June 24, 1962. Final "A-2" Pinsetter was made on September 11, 1985 Serial Number 110402. Serial Number 50001 and on were made in Muskegon. Serial Number 80000 was the start of the Factory "A-2" series.
So what was the date range in which Factory A-2's were built? As far as I know, all "Jet Back" machines were field converted and not originally built that way. And of course the Japanese models would have the "J" prefix in serial number.
@@railroadskater2896 I cannot find the document that I had from Bowl Tech years ago; I know that they made a lot of "A"s but converted many of them to either JetBacks or A2s in the field. Field A2s still had the long-stroke lowering link, compared to the Scotch Yoke. Looking at the dates above, it looks like factory A2s started in '62 (final A was June 24, 1962). In addition to the Japanese models, there were also German-made models as well. You can look some of this up on Bowl Tech.com; it is a great resource from people who know much more than I do!
Some friends and I were open bowling at a place called Madison Park Bowl in Michigan. The owner came over and started up a conversation where he mentioned that he lost his mechanic. A friend of mine was already a mechanic but I gave the owner his phone number to contact him. He worked late nights getting his ancient Brunswick A's back in shape and running flawlessly. My friend was shocked when he first went into the back and found that they were made by the Otis Elevator Company and had serial number in the 400's.
I have a friend that runs a bowling center near me, and lane 14’s pinspotter is serial number 1278. I believe he told me the first 2000 Model A spotters were made by Otis. You can always tell machines were made by Otis because they are army green
Wow, talk about "version 1.0". double-gates, slow moving machinery (compared to anything seen post mid-50s). They must've worked out a lot of kinks in the first several years. Fascinating technology. :)
For anyone and everyone wondering, the patent for the first pinsetter can be found at google patents. It's called "Bowling pin setter" and was assigned to "BRUNSWICK BALKE COLLENDER CO". I also found around three other pinsetters assigned to Brunswick, but I didn't find the exact one they used in this film as number two (the one with an orange sweep). It would have been interesting to see how they made it work, and what the differences are between that and modern pinsetters and pinspotters.
The second pinsetter shown was actually patented in 1925 by JW Bishop. What they are showing is most likely a very old prototype that they had built in the 20's. My guess is that they trotted it out, and put a newer style masking unit in front of it. If you look closely at the old photos they show you see this machine that they admit that they had 25 years ago. It's interesting that they show patent drawings for mostly manual machines. They certainly used many of the ideas from this machine on the A's as the patent drawings show a kind of turret. Also the idea of the "moving deck" but in this film the deck moves forward instead of to the rear on the A's to release the full set of pins.
It was interesting to see how the pins are made... I was 6 years old when this film was made-my mom and I went bowling 🎳 when there were still pin boys; you tipped them by stuffing some bills or coins in a tennis ball that had a slit for that purpose...🤑
AMF beat Brunswick to the punch because they figured out 2 problems that stymied Brunswick: how to pick up and respot offspot pins in the same place, and how to load pins, aka, the pinwheel. Yes, a few years later Brunswick made their pinsetter with features that theAMF 82-30 did not have, which AMF added with the 82-70, plus more. It was the pinsetter wars.
@@Sean-mclaughlin Well the GSX is also electrical but the Sweep that what got the enthusiasts to build their GSX and the Table has easier parts than AMF for them to copy, I mean if you seen one of Andys Bowl old videos for his mini Skyline Bowling Lanes, he got his Table figured it out by detail with no excessive mini springs included and his also currently working on his newer version of the GS Table which I can’t wait. Even tho GS wasn’t the greatest Pinsetter but its still the best machine to copy.
@plamormick - This is fascinating. The bowling center I grew up bowling in, King Louie Ranch Mart Lanes in Leawood, KS, opened on January 29, 1959, and they had the original "A" pinsetters (with the gold "B" on the face of the table and the gold rake with the black script "Brunswick" lettering as seen in the Brunswick film "The Golden Years," posted elsewhere on this channel. So you're saying that Brunswick didn't begin producing this pinsetter until 1957? They waited that long? WOW!
Oh the days when companies actually cared about the quality of their products instead of just selling the random junk that everybody tries to sell today.
Haven’t bought a locomotive lately, have you? They’re clean diesel technological marvels that go a million-plus miles Be careful when you say “everybody.”
Til this day, Brunswick is still working great from Ball to Pinsetters. Heck, here on TH-cam that the legacy of Brunswick Pinsetters have lived on to Pinsetter Enthusiast Bowlers that made mini Brunswick Pinsetters before and in the middle of the Pandemic which they’re the most luckiest Bowlers in the world to keep touch with Bowling while being lockdown in their homes. In likes of Andys Bowl, ThinkCleverAndSmart, coasterp, Braedan Brennaman, PinDominator and much more other Bowling TH-camrs that made Mini Brunswick Pinsetters from A2 to GSX.
I was a pin board I loved it they paid me $0.10 a game and some of the guys would tip me a dollar you talk about some money at 12 years old haha. Thank you for bringing this back in my heart in mind Sammy
I would agree that the Bruinswick "A" pinsetter is like a giant "Rube Goldberg" machine but it does work and has worked since late in 1955. The Brunswick "A" pinsetters can work fast and if they're properly maintained, they can often be better than the AMF machines.
I've been working on A series pinsetters for over 25 years. I have also worked on the GS-10 machine in the late 80's. Even with all my experiance with the A-2 and how they work, I have no idea how they could have come up with how to make something like it work. It is like a giant "rube-goldberg" machine. There are so many levers, cams, and spring it just seems confusing on how to create something. I've never worked on an AMF but could build a working scale version in my home.
You and those, like you, who perform your type of unique skills are the oil of the bowling center. Without working lane techs, things would, literally, grind to a halt. I salute you.
This video is fascinating. It's interesting how there is no "pindicator" to light up on a display which pins are standing. Also, for whatever reason, modern pinsetters still lift the pins and sweep under them even if a gutter ball is rolled. I wonder if they found that there was a problem with a "gutter cycle" where it doesn't lift & sweep.
Well, I wasn't around in 1948 to be able to tell you whether there was a problem with the "gutter cycle." But it makes sense to me that the cycles they settled on made for simpler operation. First ball and second ball cycles only, and no "gutter cycle," as you called it. One less cycle to remember.
I would have to say that it comes down to complexity. The A series essentially does the same action for both balls. The only difference is the second ball cycle holds the deck up for the 0-180 portion of the cycle, causing the mechanical detector to go into strike mode and set a full rack. The complexity of the strike and 7-10 pickoff cycles likely drove reliability down and cost up. If I recall correctly, AMF didn't have a short strike cycle or 7-10 pickoff cycle until the 82-70 with the MP (microprocessor) chassis combined with automatic scoring of some kind which connected to one of the round plugs on the 10-pin side of the chassis. (The center I worked at had this configuration while I was there.)
I'm guessing once they saw a 4 year old roll a 6lb ball that takes 2 mins just to get down the lane, they realised they might have to sweep the ball, even if the pins weren't touched.
A possibility to your question about the automatic strike cycle is sensors in the kickback similar to foul light technology. If the beam is able to go across all 4 rows it senses a strike. This is how AMF scoring worked when "Magic Score" first came out in the 70's
I find it interesting that the prototype pinsetters can detect gutter balls and skip the sweep, saving time. While the A2 and most other pinsetters today will sweep anyways.
This video is from 1955. The Brunswick pinsetter shown towards the end of the film wasn't even invented until 1953-54! It went into full scale production in the middle of 1956. Your "1948" date is all over the Internet and it's in error.
I'm really hoping you see this. I would like to know how you know the history of these machines. I have patent 2,723,123 dated 11/8/1955. I believe that patent is covering the machine in the video that starts at the 10:06 mark.
@@coasterp2199 Hi: Just saw your post from 4 years ago. The patent you have was from Brunswick inventor Ernest Hedenskoog that had the "correct ideas" for the 1956 Brunswick Automatic in his 1929 and also early 1950's patents. The automatic at the 10:06 mark in the film is from about 1947 and patented a few years later. i had that patent but can't find it now. It might have been invented by J PARRA who then sold it to Brunswick. He had a few similar bowling patents under his name. It's all very interesting.
In the 40's the guard / sweeper would raise up before the pinspotter finishes its job and would not protect the pinspotter from errant rolled balls . There were no "pin lights" to let the bowler know which pins were still standing . In the 50's the guard / sweeper would stay down until the pinspotter finishes its job and thus protect the pinspotter from any errant rolled balls . There were still no "pin lights" to let the bowler know which pins were still standing . In the 70's and the 80's there were "pin lights" lit to show the bowler which pins were still standing . In the late 90's or early 2000's automatic scoring was introduced ! No more paper sheets ! Also the machines "knew" exactly how many frames were bowled and would automatically shut off at the last game played . No more "free frames" .
Oh, there were "pindicators" (AMF) as early as the late '50s and early '60s -- the lights to indicate which pins were left standing, and they even had arrows showing where to throw the ball to convert the spare.
Actually automatic scoring machines came out in the 70s. Brunswick had this large analog machine that always jammed on carbon copy scoring sheets. One machine covered 4 lanes and about the size of a refrigerator - it weighed a ton!
@@jennyknopps1291 Similar but definitely different. On A-2s the chutes load in front of the pin spot and move backwards, this version shows the chutes behind the pin spot moving forward. Also, it appears that it uses some sort of sliding table deck to respot pins rather than finger mechanisms. Would love to see it more up close.
The first automatic pinsetter has the guard like to guillotine and sweep separately from guard. The second automatic pinsetter has a sweep which cumulated the function of guard. How are the pin transported?
I'm sure scraps are used, but in so laminating the pin, they're able to be engineered better, raising action. Those old pins are deader than Disco, relatively.
I suppose it's possible. He would have been 20 or 21 when this film was being made. But back in those days, it wasn't so common for such young people to get gigs doing voiceover like this. Heck, even nowadays, you don't find that many 20-year-olds getting jobs doing industrial film narrations. Besides, the announcer sounds decidedly older than 20 or 21. I'm sure it was somebody else.
I wonder if those machines from 1948 before the A series is still around the country and most importantly if they don't do anything like what the AMF usually does which is setting pins off spot for the spare shot because today's bowlers like Sean Rash or Jason Belmonte or Kyle Troupe wouldn't like it if they have to convert a spare shot!
Taking a bit of a guess: without knowing exactly where the Queen fit, the Duke (which appears to be a "second-quality" model based on the knots I saw in a couple of the pins being lathed) was reserved for open play while the Kings were used exclusively in leagues and tournaments. I'm sure mileage varied. It seems like I remember back in the 1980s that the "good" pins were rotated in for the evening leagues and then removed and replaced with the older wood for open play, but I haven't seen this done in a while.
1:37 What kind of Maple Wood is this ? Probably these are a lot better than the Maple Wood in of those Cheaply made Brunswick Max & Brunswick Scoreking Pins which were not as good after 4 Years.
Old growth rock maple, I'm guessing. There's been a lack of quality wood across the board in various industries. Remember, though, that our laminated pins are so much easier to score on; these were somewhat dead in comparison.
@@johnseal56. Pretty much because of lack of trees for Wood Pins to be made. Edit: Glad those Twister Pins are the eco friendly and money saving pins, well despite the sounds are terrible and prone to slid and not fall due to lack of Pindeck cleaning.
@@PinoyBowlerGS92 Yes indeed. And I've seen the demos of Twister pins...you'd want them to do well, but they've their own set of problems, it appears, if they aren't handled just so-getting really filthy, sliding as you've mentioned, not running nice in machines, etc. All of which can be surmounted with a lot of trouble. And the sound is disgusting, lol. You may have noticed that their permit number is S-2. S-1 belongs to the "Magnapin", a hollow pin made of magnesium that is, ah, really something. I've heard of an annual tournament years ago in Edmond, Okla. that employed these pins, and I'm told the sound was as atrocious as the carry.
I don't know if I meant the first or the second one, but at least I know for sure that the first one used a kind of pin elevator and not a wheel. Haha, four years later. :P
Between the minute 7.48 and the minute 10:04 can see an "intermitent light" when the setting table is picked up. Probable, that light is interrupt by pins supports of elevator.
How does that 2nd machine "know" it's a strike w/o running the deck? The first Brunswick A machines were manufactured by Otis Elevator for Brunswick and were as superior as early Otis Elevators... built to last... to anything built today!
My father now in his mid 80’s, worked on the prototypes of the Brunswick machines at Otis Elevator with my Uncle in the 1950’s, Yonkers NY. He went in to start a bowling Tri state repair service then bought his own Bowling Alley in 1977, which is still there today. He just “retired” last year but still owns the property and goes to the center everyday, Complaining that no one knows how to fix machines anymore and league bowling is dead.
@@DWilliam1 That’s interesting and yeah if only idiotic people nowadays would only know how to do repair or preventive maintenance on pinsetters especially in Poor Countries. I hate to see League Bowling go while stupid Casual Bowlers aren’t willing to join the Sport, If a Bowling Center Proprietor said “League Bowlers don’t make money” well who cares ? The Sport is more important than Fun Entertainment.
How about looking at it from the perspective of the fact that there are machines that have been running day in, day out, for 60 plus years (obviously with maintenance and part replacement)?
The Brunswick "A" pinsetters were robust machines that could take heavy use day in and day out. With proper maintenance, many of them have lasted 50 - 60 years. I wouldn't be surprised that they could last 75 - 100 years.
The days when mechanics always have safety first in their minds than the mechanics today takes safety for granted when ever a stop or jam occurred, well it’s mostly on AMF’s, Brunswick had those Safety Blackouts.
That's cool to see how they made the bowling pins, bowling balls, doing the action by hand, and how they made the bowling machines in 1948 too.
In the '90s, I worked with a consultant who had led the Motorola team that built AMF's original automatic scorekeeping system. Brunswick had beaten AMF to the punch and AMF's own in-house team was nowhere near ready to release anything, so they scrubbed that project and farmed it out to Moto. They designed and shipped their system in about a year. His tales of its development and especially the testing were wild.
I find it interesting that these early Brunswick prototypes both didn't go through a full cycle when detecting that a full set of pins was standing after a gutter ball - yet the systems they eventually shipped didn't operate this way, going through a full sweep cycle regardless. Also funny how the sweep bar rose way early, leaving the pinspotter hardware exposed longer than it should have been.
Yea, I'm bamfoozled how detection tech was engaged in this unit and the '46 AMF unit, yet those A-2s that I've often bowled on since I was a young one went through the full cycle no matter what pins were/weren't hit. If you own an alley, you really rather the machine do as little cycling/motion as possible to reduce wear on the equipment and save on the light bill.
I could be speaking out of turn, but I want to say I read that there are electronic upgrades that you can get for many of the older 60s-80s units to give them some of those operatory features as say the newer Qubica machines seem to offer (haven't been to a modern enough alley to see those in action, but based on their sales brochure I've seen online they are pretty sweet machines).
@@JadeDragon407 could be whatever mechanism they had to detect added too much complexity and introduced more breakdowns than they eliminated. Probably just simpler to do the same rite cycle Everytime. What I want to know is how that one pinspotter detected the strike with no contact, before automatic scoring and their cameras were introduced. Pindeck weight? Magnets in the pins and leaf switches in the pindeck? And if so, why could it only detect a strike without reeling, but had to feel for the other leaves? I suspect the strike cycle may have been "simulated".
This is a great film !!!
To put this into perspective: serial numbers on Brunswick pinsetters start at 5200, which had a build date of July, 1957.
According to a list obtained at bowl tech.com,
Serial numbers below 50000 were made by Otis Elevator Company for Brunswick. Final "A" Pinsetter was made on June 24, 1962.
Final "A-2" Pinsetter was made on September 11, 1985 Serial Number 110402. Serial Number 50001 and on were made in Muskegon.
Serial Number 80000 was the start of the Factory "A-2" series.
So what was the date range in which Factory A-2's were built? As far as I know, all "Jet Back" machines were field converted and not originally built that way. And of course the Japanese models would have the "J" prefix in serial number.
@@railroadskater2896 I cannot find the document that I had from Bowl Tech years ago; I know that they made a lot of "A"s but converted many of them to either JetBacks or A2s in the field. Field A2s still had the long-stroke lowering link, compared to the Scotch Yoke. Looking at the dates above, it looks like factory A2s started in '62 (final A was June 24, 1962). In addition to the Japanese models, there were also German-made models as well. You can look some of this up on Bowl Tech.com; it is a great resource from people who know much more than I do!
Some friends and I were open bowling at a place called Madison Park Bowl in Michigan. The owner came over and started up a conversation where he mentioned that he lost his mechanic. A friend of mine was already a mechanic but I gave the owner his phone number to contact him. He worked late nights getting his ancient Brunswick A's back in shape and running flawlessly. My friend was shocked when he first went into the back and found that they were made by the Otis Elevator Company and had serial number in the 400's.
I have a friend that runs a bowling center near me, and lane 14’s pinspotter is serial number 1278. I believe he told me the first 2000 Model A spotters were made by Otis. You can always tell machines were made by Otis because they are army green
That second machine looks like the prototype for what eventually became the A series pinsetters.
Yep, it became the standard design. I don't think a pinspotter with a guard and a sweep ever came out. Unnecessary.
Funny enough, the sweep for the first machine looks quite similar to the GSX series
It’s so satisfying seeing the Red Crown being printed by hand. Triangle after triangle.
Wow, talk about "version 1.0". double-gates, slow moving machinery (compared to anything seen post mid-50s). They must've worked out a lot of kinks in the first several years. Fascinating technology. :)
For anyone and everyone wondering, the patent for the first pinsetter can be found at google patents. It's called "Bowling pin setter" and was assigned to "BRUNSWICK BALKE COLLENDER CO". I also found around three other pinsetters assigned to Brunswick, but I didn't find the exact one they used in this film as number two (the one with an orange sweep). It would have been interesting to see how they made it work, and what the differences are between that and modern pinsetters and pinspotters.
The second pinsetter shown was actually patented in 1925 by JW Bishop. What they are showing is most likely a very old prototype that they had built in the 20's. My guess is that they trotted it out, and put a newer style masking unit in front of it. If you look closely at the old photos they show you see this machine that they admit that they had 25 years ago. It's interesting that they show patent drawings for mostly manual machines. They certainly used many of the ideas from this machine on the A's as the patent drawings show a kind of turret. Also the idea of the "moving deck" but in this film the deck moves forward instead of to the rear on the A's to release the full set of pins.
Wish we had some gut shots of both of these machines
You can see some patent drawings in the video
Great company! I miss the old Brunswick backdrops!
Brings me back when my great grandparents were alive. Oh, the history. 😊
The dude with th pipe during the pinsetter section was a total vibe.
I love watching these.
It was interesting to see how the pins are made... I was 6 years old when this film was made-my mom and I went bowling 🎳 when there were still pin boys; you tipped them by stuffing some bills or coins in a tennis ball that had a slit for that purpose...🤑
First machine reminds me of the current GS-X machines I work on
AMF beat Brunswick to the punch because they figured out 2 problems that stymied Brunswick: how to pick up and respot offspot pins in the same place, and how to load pins, aka, the pinwheel. Yes, a few years later Brunswick made their pinsetter with features that theAMF 82-30 did not have, which AMF added with the 82-70, plus more. It was the pinsetter wars.
In the Mini Bowling division (made by TH-cam Bowlers who were Pinsetter Enthusiasts that made Mini Bowling Alleys), Brunswick wins by 99% haha
All from the fans of their pinsetters lol
@@PinoyBowlerGS92 Brunswick is easier to recreate because they are mostly mechanical. AMF'S are mostly electric.
@@Sean-mclaughlin Well the GSX is also electrical but the Sweep that what got the enthusiasts to build their GSX and the Table has easier parts than AMF for them to copy, I mean if you seen one of Andys Bowl old videos for his mini Skyline Bowling Lanes, he got his Table figured it out by detail with no excessive mini springs included and his also currently working on his newer version of the GS Table which I can’t wait. Even tho GS wasn’t the greatest Pinsetter but its still the best machine to copy.
@plamormick - This is fascinating. The bowling center I grew up bowling in, King Louie Ranch Mart Lanes in Leawood, KS, opened on January 29, 1959, and they had the original "A" pinsetters (with the gold "B" on the face of the table and the gold rake with the black script "Brunswick" lettering as seen in the Brunswick film "The Golden Years," posted elsewhere on this channel. So you're saying that Brunswick didn't begin producing this pinsetter until 1957? They waited that long? WOW!
lol good ole Ranch mart, I grew up bowling at Lucky Strike on Wornall on the Missouri side! Lucky Strike had the A-2's!
Oh the days when companies actually cared about the quality of their products instead of just selling the random junk that everybody tries to sell today.
Eggsr2bcrushed compared to some twister pin shit
Eggsr2bcrushed truth...the world could try it
Haven’t bought a locomotive lately, have you? They’re clean diesel technological marvels that go a million-plus miles Be careful when you say “everybody.”
@@douglasskaalrud6865 Siemens and their Chargers...Yeah, they're "great".
Sam Li Jie DONT get me started on those
Til this day, Brunswick is still working great from Ball to Pinsetters. Heck, here on TH-cam that the legacy of Brunswick Pinsetters have lived on to Pinsetter Enthusiast Bowlers that made mini Brunswick Pinsetters before and in the middle of the Pandemic which they’re the most luckiest Bowlers in the world to keep touch with Bowling while being lockdown in their homes. In likes of Andys Bowl, ThinkCleverAndSmart, coasterp, Braedan Brennaman, PinDominator and much more other Bowling TH-camrs that made Mini Brunswick Pinsetters from A2 to GSX.
I was a pin board I loved it they paid me $0.10 a game and some of the guys would tip me a dollar you talk about some money at 12 years old haha. Thank you for bringing this back in my heart in mind Sammy
I would agree that the Bruinswick "A" pinsetter is like a giant "Rube Goldberg" machine but it does work and has worked since late in 1955. The Brunswick "A" pinsetters can work fast and if they're properly maintained, they can often be better than the AMF machines.
I've been working on A series pinsetters for over 25 years. I have also worked on the GS-10 machine in the late 80's. Even with all my experiance with the A-2 and how they work, I have no idea how they could have come up with how to make something like it work. It is like a giant "rube-goldberg" machine. There are so many levers, cams, and spring it just seems confusing on how to create something. I've never worked on an AMF but could build a working scale version in my home.
You and those, like you, who perform your type of unique skills are the oil of the bowling center. Without working lane techs, things would, literally, grind to a halt. I salute you.
This video is fascinating. It's interesting how there is no "pindicator" to light up on a display which pins are standing. Also, for whatever reason, modern pinsetters still lift the pins and sweep under them even if a gutter ball is rolled. I wonder if they found that there was a problem with a "gutter cycle" where it doesn't lift & sweep.
Well, I wasn't around in 1948 to be able to tell you whether there was a problem with the "gutter cycle." But it makes sense to me that the cycles they settled on made for simpler operation. First ball and second ball cycles only, and no "gutter cycle," as you called it. One less cycle to remember.
I would have to say that it comes down to complexity. The A series essentially does the same action for both balls. The only difference is the second ball cycle holds the deck up for the 0-180 portion of the cycle, causing the mechanical detector to go into strike mode and set a full rack. The complexity of the strike and 7-10 pickoff cycles likely drove reliability down and cost up.
If I recall correctly, AMF didn't have a short strike cycle or 7-10 pickoff cycle until the 82-70 with the MP (microprocessor) chassis combined with automatic scoring of some kind which connected to one of the round plugs on the 10-pin side of the chassis. (The center I worked at had this configuration while I was there.)
The Brunswick GSX will not sweep if they are gutter
Tay TYLERIENMAM Station only gs x 92 up
I'm guessing once they saw a 4 year old roll a 6lb ball that takes 2 mins just to get down the lane, they realised they might have to sweep the ball, even if the pins weren't touched.
Brunswick, the game devs of the 40s
"We had a release date, but won't make it "
Fairly advanced that it could sense a gutter on ball 1.
It's cool seeing the candlepins and duckpins up on the shelf at 4:59
The pinsetter with orange sweeper similar aproximate with the pinsetter patented with number 2,015,428.
A possibility to your question about the automatic strike cycle is sensors in the kickback similar to foul light technology. If the beam is able to go across all 4 rows it senses a strike. This is how AMF scoring worked when "Magic Score" first came out in the 70's
I find it interesting that the prototype pinsetters can detect gutter balls and skip the sweep, saving time. While the A2 and most other pinsetters today will sweep anyways.
It’s pretty how the Brunswick GS-Series would do as always. I know AMF would do the same thing but there are AMF Pinspotters would still pick up pins.
I wish the A-2's had a "rake guard" like the old machine, that way the 4-1 link wouldn't get bent if there was a hard rake shot.
That would be disturbing for mechanics because of no room for them to walk around the front.
The pinsetter which an orange sweeper has a trembling pit conveyor and two coaxial elevators (one for ball, one for pins) similar A, Jet Back and A2?
the patent US 2,729,449 is also, like the first pinsetter.
This video is from 1955. The Brunswick pinsetter shown towards the end of the film wasn't even invented until 1953-54! It went into full scale production in the middle of 1956. Your "1948" date is all over the Internet and it's in error.
I'm really hoping you see this. I would like to know how you know the history of these machines. I have patent 2,723,123 dated 11/8/1955. I believe that patent is covering the machine in the video that starts at the 10:06 mark.
@@coasterp2199 Hi: Just saw your post from 4 years ago. The patent you have was from Brunswick inventor Ernest Hedenskoog that had the "correct ideas" for the 1956 Brunswick Automatic in his 1929 and also early 1950's patents. The automatic at the 10:06 mark in the film is from about 1947 and patented a few years later. i had that patent but can't find it now. It might have been invented by J PARRA who then sold it to Brunswick. He had a few similar bowling patents under his name. It's all very interesting.
In the 40's the guard / sweeper would raise up before the pinspotter finishes its job
and would not protect the pinspotter from errant rolled balls . There were no
"pin lights" to let the bowler know which pins were still standing .
In the 50's the guard / sweeper would stay down until the pinspotter finishes its job
and thus protect the pinspotter from any errant rolled balls . There were still no
"pin lights" to let the bowler know which pins were still standing .
In the 70's and the 80's there were "pin lights" lit to show the bowler which pins
were still standing .
In the late 90's or early 2000's automatic scoring was introduced ! No more paper
sheets ! Also the machines "knew" exactly how many frames were bowled and
would automatically shut off at the last game played . No more "free frames" .
Oh, there were "pindicators" (AMF) as early as the late '50s and early '60s -- the lights to indicate which pins were left standing, and they even had arrows showing where to throw the ball to convert the spare.
@@ProdigyBowlersTour Thank you and you are correct.
Actually automatic scoring machines came out in the 70s. Brunswick had this large analog machine that always jammed on carbon copy scoring sheets. One machine covered 4 lanes and about the size of a refrigerator - it weighed a ton!
the second machine looks like a prototype of an A-2
It is an A-2.
@@jennyknopps1291 Similar but definitely different. On A-2s the chutes load in front of the pin spot and move backwards, this version shows the chutes behind the pin spot moving forward. Also, it appears that it uses some sort of sliding table deck to respot pins rather than finger mechanisms. Would love to see it more up close.
And the first machine looks like a prototype of the GS-Series Pinsetters. It even had the GS style sweep, pin detector plates and pin elevator
The first automatic pinsetter has the guard like to guillotine and sweep separately from guard. The second automatic pinsetter has a sweep which cumulated the function of guard. How are the pin transported?
Probable, Patent US no. 2,817,529 is for pinsetter which has guard like a guillotine.
Wow.. those pins were made of solid wood! Now it's junk scraps glued together, lathed, and covered.
I'm sure scraps are used, but in so laminating the pin, they're able to be engineered better, raising action. Those old pins are deader than Disco, relatively.
Brunswick had a pinspotter in 1948 that knew on a gutterball it didint need to lift the pins?!
I wonder who the narrator was for this? Sounds like game show host Tom Kennedy.
I suppose it's possible. He would have been 20 or 21 when this film was being made. But back in those days, it wasn't so common for such young people to get gigs doing voiceover like this. Heck, even nowadays, you don't find that many 20-year-olds getting jobs doing industrial film narrations. Besides, the announcer sounds decidedly older than 20 or 21. I'm sure it was somebody else.
In the opening 15 seconds, Larry Elliott is credited as narrator.
How much do you want to bet that Phil Rizzuto and Yogi Berra saw this exact same film.
Seems like the guard went up too soon on the second pinsetter
I wonder if those machines from 1948 before the A series is still around the country and most importantly if they don't do anything like what the AMF usually does which is setting pins off spot for the spare shot because today's bowlers like Sean Rash or Jason Belmonte or Kyle Troupe wouldn't like it if they have to convert a spare shot!
How does the 2nd machine "know" it's a strike without running the deck? Great question. And I have no idea what the answer is.
Does anyone see that bump in the pit on the second machine? Thats why i see the ball bouncing.
@Drummachine. I think there’s a pin got stuck in the pit, that’s why the Ball bounces.
Pin detection plate?
I wonder what differentiated King, Queen and Duke.
Taking a bit of a guess: without knowing exactly where the Queen fit, the Duke (which appears to be a "second-quality" model based on the knots I saw in a couple of the pins being lathed) was reserved for open play while the Kings were used exclusively in leagues and tournaments. I'm sure mileage varied. It seems like I remember back in the 1980s that the "good" pins were rotated in for the evening leagues and then removed and replaced with the older wood for open play, but I haven't seen this done in a while.
The first machine looks like the GSX Series
1:37 What kind of Maple Wood is this ? Probably these are a lot better than the Maple Wood in of those Cheaply made Brunswick Max & Brunswick Scoreking Pins which were not as good after 4 Years.
Old growth rock maple, I'm guessing. There's been a lack of quality wood across the board in various industries. Remember, though, that our laminated pins are so much easier to score on; these were somewhat dead in comparison.
@@johnseal56. Pretty much because of lack of trees for Wood Pins to be made.
Edit: Glad those Twister Pins are the eco friendly and money saving pins, well despite the sounds are terrible and prone to slid and not fall due to lack of Pindeck cleaning.
@@PinoyBowlerGS92 Yes indeed. And I've seen the demos of Twister pins...you'd want them to do well, but they've their own set of problems, it appears, if they aren't handled just so-getting really filthy, sliding as you've mentioned, not running nice in machines, etc. All of which can be surmounted with a lot of trouble. And the sound is disgusting, lol.
You may have noticed that their permit number is S-2. S-1 belongs to the "Magnapin", a hollow pin made of magnesium that is, ah, really something. I've heard of an annual tournament years ago in Edmond, Okla. that employed these pins, and I'm told the sound was as atrocious as the carry.
how did I get here?
Modern pin spotters don't detect gutter balls.... They just lift the whole rack, and the sweeper sweeps nothing......
AMF ones certainly do.
Most Brunswick GS pinsetters don't sweep if it's a gutter, or 7/10 pin hit.
Only the Brunswick Model A, A2 & Jetback does that and these pinsetters came out in the 60’s/70’s.
Is it a pin elevator or a pin wheel, that lifts up the pins to the setting table?
I don't know if I meant the first or the second one, but at least I know for sure that the first one used a kind of pin elevator and not a wheel. Haha, four years later. :P
The second one its probably a Pinwheel
Between the minute 7.48 and the minute 10:04 can see an "intermitent light" when the setting table is picked up. Probable, that light is interrupt by pins supports of elevator.
"our engineers have been working on the pin setting problem for years on end" as someone is lighting a cigarette. Laugh at this because it's so 1950s
I wonder how these electric bowlings work
How does that 2nd machine "know" it's a strike w/o running the deck? The first Brunswick A machines were manufactured by Otis Elevator for Brunswick and were as superior as early Otis Elevators... built to last... to anything built today!
My father now in his mid 80’s, worked on the prototypes of the Brunswick machines at Otis Elevator with my Uncle in the 1950’s, Yonkers NY. He went in to start a bowling Tri state repair service then bought his own Bowling Alley in 1977, which is still there today. He just “retired” last year but still owns the property and goes to the center everyday, Complaining that no one knows how to fix machines anymore and league bowling is dead.
@@DWilliam1 That’s interesting and yeah if only idiotic people nowadays would only know how to do repair or preventive maintenance on pinsetters especially in Poor Countries. I hate to see League Bowling go while stupid Casual Bowlers aren’t willing to join the Sport, If a Bowling Center Proprietor said “League Bowlers don’t make money” well who cares ? The Sport is more important than Fun Entertainment.
even with the A series in the field over 60 years, it is far from perfect since there are modifications coming out constantly
How about looking at it from the perspective of the fact that there are machines that have been running day in, day out, for 60 plus years (obviously with maintenance and part replacement)?
The Brunswick "A" pinsetters were robust machines that could take heavy use day in and day out. With proper maintenance, many of them have lasted 50 - 60 years. I wouldn't be surprised that they could last 75 - 100 years.
I dunno whats uglier the AMF prototype or the Brunswick prototype (I take it that those still photos shown are of the prototype)
I think AMF is more uglier from their prototype, that machine was insane. Brunswick seems to be simple on how they built them.
proud company, no compare to most modern companies
from this to the gs-x lol
Now to the GS-NXT. Not counting the StringPin or Boost ST garbage
This was before the Bowling Crash. They over built.
interesting to see 0 safety gear in that Brunswick plant - no OSHA no EPA the good old days:-)
That was back when most people had good common sense
Still a matter of fumes and overspray from that likely-leaded paint, with no masks. I sort of cringe watching that.
The days when mechanics always have safety first in their minds than the mechanics today takes safety for granted when ever a stop or jam occurred, well it’s mostly on AMF’s, Brunswick had those Safety Blackouts.