Caulk line issues and other matters
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- This is one of my more rambling videos for the hardcore fitted furniture making subscribers who are interested in the details. Mainly about different types of caulk we have tried, and methods to get the best joint where scribed parts meet the wall.
Zinsser bin primer
Dries in 15 - 30 mins
Excellent adhesion
Really good product as a decorator it’s used on a daily basis
Great video. As for the caulking I'm in the same dilemma... some options/approaches are better than others but there isn't any that I'm aware of that I'm truly happy with! As for the scaling of the business although your considerably further ahead than me! My idea which I also believe you're looking into now is to improve and invest in machinery rather than staff! That way you can get a lot more done in less time and staff and you can still be involved in all the individual jobs. Only downsides I see to this method is theres a bottle neck when it comes to fitting you can only do so much in a day... and I'm not a fan of being uninvolved in that as after all it's the make or break of the job... For this reason, I realise I'll only be able to scale so far 🙈 my 2 pence!
Jack Finnerty yes we are on the same page with all that! I think I’ve been a bit too quick to invest in staff and a bit too slow to invest in machinery, we really have a very basic setup on that front and I think it’s limited us.
@@Alastair_Freebird at least machinery doesn't answer back when u blame them but its truly your fault/mistake!!😂 I bought the Felder p 700 s panel saw yesterday. I went for fairly high spec digital readout etc... about 7 to 8 weeks before it arrives might be too far away for you but more than welcome to ask any questions etc. if of any help to you! Great price as well when compared to competitors 👍👍
@@jackfinnerty7891 Hey Jack, something causes me to stumbled across this old exchange of comments and I thought it was interesting, a blast from the past! I have since invested in both machinery and staff and find both very valuable! How are things going for you?
Hi. I've been in the industry since I was 15. Im now 48. Bit anal on products always wanting the best finish. Caulk is a nightmare, it will always shrink, and yellow. I now use CT1. It's a great sealant, but I don't like it as a grab. We try to do a neat line, and if needed paint the wall instead of the unit. And to be perfect we tape up with low tack tape. Then cauk. Then paint. Then take the tape off before it all dries. Perfect edge. You could use Knotting on the edge of the mdf.
Great video! I was just thinking about what you were saying about sealing the cut edges before caulking and wondered if you have tried applying Rustin's quick drying MDF sealer to the scribes before final fitting and caulking? I might try it out on my next job
Samuel Hook last time I tried an mdf sealer it took ages to dry!
I have always tried to keep my caulking lines as small as possible. That is due to a couple things. One, we here in the states build walls out of wood and as you know wood always moves. Two, I never liked the paint over method. I too spray paint everything and brush strokes just wouldn't match. I really try to not use caulking at all and just fit really good to the walls.
Brian Needham great to hear your perspective! I’ve moved over to avoiding caulk altogether for pretty much any non white colour.
+Brian Needham
I totally agree with you mate. That is to use a more skill and have smaller chalk lines. And avoid using chalk.
One unfortunate thing I have learnt from my day job is that no bugger will do something exactly the same as someone else, be it build method or just quality of work. That's fine for one off jobs but certainly not for repeat customers or products 🙁 drives me nuts. IMO having a small group that will do things to the company blueprint would be a lot better than a larger company that's bloody inconsistent (or just work by yourself 😁) - but as ever who am I to talk, I work for someone else full time and have my own micro-business in spare (?) hours.
No Skills I think the successful bigger companies like sharps know the secret: keep the methods extremely simple; materials and components as cheap as possible; and charge a lot for it to cover all eventualities. Or, go higher end like Neville Johnson and charge stratospheric amounts. I actually have increasing respect for these bigger companies, from a purely business point of view. They’ve made it work. I just couldn’t do it to that level. And wouldn’t want to.
@@Alastair_Freebird yes, have a formula and stick to it - if it sells. Seems to be the way BUT its possibly unsatisfying for someone that actually likes to make things! Wheres the challenge and diversity that you need to keep the brain cells working 😁
No Skills yes. Money or job satisfaction.
Size on those gaps!
Custom fitting should means, "Tighter joints".
Thanks for being brutally honest and sharing your work, much respect.
Always interesting to hear you talk about the issues we all face. My wife's eyes glaze over when I get to the detail. I've been using No Nonsense plaster filler recently for some tasks - a tip I picked up from Gid Joiner. So far so good.
Anthony James Brown I’m wary of the no nonsense brand since trying their caulk (very poor). Do you mean that the plaster filler works well for wood?
@@Alastair_Freebird
Yeah I usually avoid the cheap brands too but this seems to be ok. Just filling hairline gaps and joints.
Could you seal the edge of the MDF with mitre glue it sets in like 10 seconds so their would be no waiting on drying time before caulking
Yes that could work however it's high risk - get any on the painted face and you can't rescue it
Where are you based? If your looking for decent craftsmen with en eye for detail to hire I think I fit the criteria of what your looking for.
Sheffield, where are you?
Ha ha ha so funnny at the end if you ended up here by googling calking hahaha Look forward to your new designs and furniture
I installed kota skirting in my house- the fill has yellowed and the Boards now need to be repainted which will be horrendous given they’re melamine-like.
satanismybrother maybe this is why the Kota profiles on the shelves at Lavers now seem to be collecting dust and not selling much
Try Rustin's sanding sealer or even shellac. It dries really quickly and kills the suction from MDF.👍
Not scalable it's why to get more money people become builders taking on bigger risk with bigger chance of profit. Or keep things tidy and small.
If you want to prime your cut edges, but you want it to be a quicker process, use SBR instead of primer, it’s like pva but it doesn’t soften under moisture, it dries in about 5 mins, it’s about £20 for 5litres and will last ages!! and the caulk will not only adhere to it far better, it will help to stop the caulk from cracking
You would make a fantastic teacher/lecturer.tim
Tim Smith thank you! Perhaps one day. I suppose that’s kind of what I’m already doing with these TH-cam videos
Freebird Interiors definitely matey.but think you run a business training youngsters up or private courses etc
You've got a sprinter/ crafter because I've got that squeeky clutch pedal in mine too,drives me mad in traffic lol
Halstock have obviously scaled up mate. They're a big, high end furniture manufacturers that must have started where you are. I'm sure you can do it 👍 you seem to be very intelligent and skilled. I'm listening to the book you recommended, "the E Myth" and is this the adolesant phase, scaling back to the infant phase because of the lose of control? Very interesting to see this playing out and hope you manage to scale your business up 🙏❤️
Stelmax 1961 is amazing for not shrinking and discolouring and it’s wipe clean as it’s a liquid PVC. Our conservatory was done about 10yrs ago and it now looks newer than the conservatory lol 😂 I’m guessing it would also bond with the spray finish of the cabinets 💪
Interesting - never heard of it, googled it, could be what I need. Thanks!
Use CT1 sealant is paintable
theethee yog been trying that. It’s a pretty good option, thanks.
Ive been using Everbuild Instant nails for caulking around general joinery work. It doesn't seem to shrink, its overpaintable and its usually on offer for a £1 at toolstation.
Can i ask the reasons for spray finishing off site? Do your clients prefer that perfect finish vs the hand painted? I worked on a job with a bespoke kitchen company a few years back. All the units, plynths etc arrived on site in a sprayed base coat that was the exact same colour as the finish paint was going to be. After everything had been fitted and had acclimatised for a couple of weeks, they sent in a decorator to put the final coat on everthing. It looked fantastic, he got a really good finish, but it didn't look like a mass produced factory spray finish. Me personally, i prefer that honest hand painted look on bespoke furniture.
I will give instant nails a try, thanks. I see the sense in installing furniture primed then hand painting afterwards - it is easier for the installer, not having to avoid damaging the final finish. Also the hand painted finish is easier to repair later when necessary. We moved to spraying because it is faster for us and a far better finish than what we used to achieve hand painting (with foam rollers in the workshop). But for the kind of work we are doing I just can’t see it working to add another process - installing then revisiting to paint - because it seems like more inconvenience for the customer but also for us. I would have to charge more for it or make less profit. Perhaps I’m just stuck in a mindset, because I do also see the benefits! We’ve just been so focused on refining our system for both speed and quality and this seems a good way to do it.
I tink the E-myth has a lot to answer for !! I worked with E-Myth around 15-20 years ago, and the notion of working on your business and then franchising it is fine in principle. However, you can have all the systems and standards in the world, but in your line of business your critical requirement is skill and experience in installations, and you cannot systemise all the variations that arise. For me, ( an old BS5750 and manufacturing Software implementor ) I dont think EMyth works for businesses where the customer dictates the pace. You can franchise a coffee shop provided you are supplying tasty coffee, and customers will buy it, but as soon as different customers in different shops start making demands for variation, you are well and truly buggerred , and E Myth falls over. Sharps is an E-Myth business - standard boxes sold with a bit of fettling. I think you are much, much better than that.
Caulking bit was quite interesting too !!
Richard Keith it’s very interesting that you have made this comment because I have just made another video, to update subscribers on some developments with my business, and I discuss how I think it was a mistake for me to put so much emphasis on E-myth principles. In retrospect I fell that approach has set my business back a little vs if I had focused more on growth via my own hard work and skill. However on the flip side the systemising and delegating I did manage to set up was enough to keep the business functioning through a difficult period when my son was in intensive care for a few months and the team were able to keep things going without. So it wasn’t altogether a mistake but I am making some adjustments to our trajectory now. My latest favourite book is Profit First by Mike Michalowicz!
Very interesting and frank exposition of issues that affect your daily work and living despite the apparent simplicity of a process called 'Caulking'. All of your actions are clearly aimed at providing a quality and value for money service for your customers. I consider your outlook and attention to detail to be exemplary and inspiring !
Thank you!
I have found with my people the best method is to start slowly. By that I mean to have you and your apprentice installing pieces for six months or so and then start giving them small installs that they can handle with no issue and just check them at the end for fit and finish. Over time move away from inspecting them to trusting that they are doing it the way you want. I have also found by ring the customer a few days after the install to ask about their experience. This also makes it easier to spot issues with installs before they become major issues. You will find it hard for the first two or three until you get the method nailed down and then after that your efforts will compound and you will really reap the rewards with a strong core workforce and a growing business.
Great advice, thank you!
Blue hinges bloom has an insert for screws to go in MDF and particleboard screws do not hold on those two items
Dunlop caulk is great, it doesn’t shrink or crack/craze BUT, it dries grey, and I don’t mean off white def grey.. great videos 👍🏻
Jo B Productions thanks I must try this stuff just never seen it at my usual suppliers. Where do you buy it?
Gaps can be a number of things. Things to consider are. Movement in the MDF. Its very stable but if you go from a cold workshop in winter to a heated house it will defiantly shrink enough to break the cork.
Moisture content of the walls if they are dry like freshly plastered it will suck the moisture out of the cork leaving a crack. If the cork bead is too tight the above issues will happen sooner. I tackle this by using a silicone tool like a fugi kit you so i can get a thick enough neat uniformed cork line. On the scaling side of things. I know most kitchen companies mostly manufacture and offer fitting at a ridiculous premium but also just recommend a list of independent fitters/ joiners in my experience they usually go for the latter. Could be an option for scaling up.
Thanks for that, I like getting thee sorts of comments that add to the discussion
Interesting topic.
Have you tried a (de-waxed) Shellac/ Shellac based Primer for your MDF scribe edges?...Scribes could be ready to plant and caulk in 20 mins at +15 deg C.
Often scribes are back-cut for ease of shooting-in with a plane and counter fouling on the adjacent wall surface. This leaves a knife edge on the scribe and little grab surface for the caulk. Perhaps a very light dress of the edge with sandpaper would give the caulk more to stick to.
I would (and you probably do) avoid caulking ceiling junctions and opt for a drop (dust spot), shadow gap or rebated shadow gap.
One would hope for your caulked junctions to last a couple of years, though there is a good argument, and it's reasonable to advise, that over time gaps are simply part of the natural thermal movements of a property, and should be accounted for in decorating schedules. Personally why I choose to live 'rustic' over 'sleek minimalist', as there's a greater visual tolerance.
Choosing ‘rustic’ is a smart move 😁. Since having to rip out some work that I fitted using ‘Caulk once’ pressed/rubbed by hand well into the cut edges prior to offering up to the wall then fully caulking; and discovering that the dried caulk bond remained strong to both wall and mdf edge; I have reverted to that as my standard method. Even the quick drying zinsser - type probers would add too much time to my work flow (see for example this job I fitted yesterday - fitted in a day but I wouldn’t want to add anymore to the time: instagram.com/p/B1ZNtHuAb1v/?igshid=1pymztx8oetp4)
Another informative video which I’ve only just watched. Following on from my comments with regards to you growing your business on a previous video I watched. You sound like you maybe scaling back your plans & reducing your team? Which in my opinion is the way to go if you want to keep a tight control on things. Keep a staff member or 2, keep working from home and more importantly spend more time with your family. You’re never going to be able to employ an installer as good as yourself, if they’re that good then they’re probably already working for themselves. There’ll be no need for non productive staff like admin & cad processes etc. A couple of decent jobs per week then there’ll be no need to work evenings or Saturdays. You should even be able get a day off during the week.
Keith Brigham thanks for your commitment to the channel, I enjoy receiving your comments! Yes I am letting a staff member go; I will release a video or 2 about all this in due course. I do however need to relocate the business to its own premises as we need to move house for personal reasons. So I need to make the business profitable enough to cover workshop rental. I am not going to go down the route of overstuffing again, instead I will invest in machinery, starting with a Cnc machine, to be more productive without extra staff.
Hi Alastair. I own and run a decorators merchants in north London. I came across this video when doing some research. Can I recommend a caulk called Allpro Quick2coat. Can be sprayed straight away and painted in half hour. Every decorator I have sold this caulk to says its the best caulk they have used. If you can't find it online please let me know as I would be happy to sent you a sample. Thank you
Hi Andrew I have never heard of this, yes please send a sample! Include your business details and i will mention it on Instagram (just reached 10k followers there!). And if I like it it may feature in a future TH-cam video but I’m less active on here at the moment. Use the address are our website www.freebirdinteriors.co.uk thanks very much!
@@Alastair_Freebird Will post today. Thanks
the Dunlop caulk is the best ive used and ive tried loads... not many stockists thou
Kay Waters I keep hearing this, I must track some down and try it!
Good video
One of the best joiner n teacher on TH-cam
Kernel Enchte that’s incredibly kind of you. As I’ve said before there are without a doubt many FAR better woodworkers than me, they’re just too busy doing it to make videos about it!!
you tried expanding foam first then caulk or power filler.
jack wardley no; do you do it that way? I’d be wary of the mess of expanding foam. And what is power filler?
@@Alastair_Freebird sometimes I do especially on stringing on staircases caulk doesn't seem flexible enough to last there. power filler you just add water mix it up in a flexible mixing bowl prefer using that for larger gaps on top of sanded expanding foam.
Don’t like many people after 20 years as a builder, can’t find the staff to scale my business but it seems to be across all industries. I love your honest approach, we are all learning as we go and will only get better. I see some old pics of project’s where even tho the client was happy and I thought i was the dogs nutsI I’m 10 x better now but that’s life! Looking to learn some low impact trades now, digging holes, knock throughs, plastering and roofing are getting to much at 40! Thanks for the tips.
Build bs9 Limited I also look back on old work and feel ashamed; realise how my skills and standards have improved, but the customers were still more than happy with the work back then!
Keep your hands on the wheel when driving!
Black Country Lad I do get told off every now and then, you are not the first 😆