Lets see regular balls with the MLM2Pro or did you omit them to make the Rapsodo look better? If a person is required to use those black dot balls, then the device is a massive failure as range work is out of the question.
Personally I have an r10 for range use, so I'd love to see an mlm 2 pro vs r10 at the range with range balls. Also if you do this test, maybe use awesome golf for the r10, garmin's software is notoriously innacurate
Same test at driving range. Some of us that are interested in either of the units are looking at these as an econimical option when we cannot have an indoor sim or space for net. Now if I won the lotto.........lol
Good video guys but the R10 isn’t setup correctly. The bottom of the feet need to be level with the top of the mat and it’s much better for the R10 to be on a stand 😊 also I think everyone knows that the Garmin software is not great. Would have been better to use awesome golf
Completely agree on the setup. With RCT balls and proper setup I have not see that large of a discrepancy. Would love to see a comparison by Mr. Maxfield.
Hi David, thanks for the feedback. Regarding the setup of the R10, we followed the Garmin instructions which say "If you are using a golf mat, make sure the bottom edge of the device sits above the mat." In our test, the bottom edge of the square radar device was sitting above the height of the mat, so it should be within requirements for the R10 to work properly.
@@Golficity I’ve seen that but I think the interpretation of that wording is tricky and that Garmin need to update it. “The bottom edge of the device” to me definitely means the bottom of the tripod. At the PGA show Garmin also had the device with the tripod feet slightly above the mat 😊 Either way great video. Rapsodo looks great 👍🏼
@@davidmaxfieldgolf can you also explore/explain in your video any sort of multiplayer functionality? i am having trouble find out if there is any support for online multiplayer. i have an r10 but a big selling point for me to buy either an mlm2 or upgraded software on the r10 would be if i could play with friends online. i know it already has the local multiplayer for e6 and garmin golf.
With all due respect I think your price comparison is totally wrong. While the R10 does have a premium subscription, it's really only for access to Garmin's own simulator and not much else. No data is hidden behind a paywall. IE: Whatever it can measure/calculate is there whether you pay for a sub or not. I didn't pay for a subscription, so the initial cost is all I have paid and will ever pay. And you have access to E6 (true simulation not gimmicky Mario kart graphics) for free. Yes only 5 courses, but also the full E6 driving range, as well as Garmin's driving range etc. So it depends on what you want and need and whether an extra camera angle, storage for shots, and unlocked spin axis etc is worth $200 per year. I think that is a truer and fairer comparison. By year 3, r10 is still $600 and a mlm2 would be $1,100, almost double the cost. I think if you are really serious about seeing your swing progression from two angles (absolutely invaluable and worth it if you are making swing changes) and you want to make sure spin is more "measured" than calculated, then it's not that big a stretch to pay $200 extra a year. But if you just want to practice and see your ball flight etc, or play Sim golf with Doppler accuracy, the R10 is going to do pretty much exactly the same for alot cheaper.
100% agree. Can't imagine how guys so tuned into the golf tech scene would overlook these things. So why was the R10 portrayed in a way to make the MLM 2 pricing and subscription seem more reasonable?
Arent u forgetting ball flight direction (aka spin axis)? Inaccurate to the point of opposite spin axis is the main thing that is holding me back from the r10.
@@yannrobert8546 yep. Not to mention they only tested the MLM2 in the best case scenario (with the RPT ball). Why? Yet they were able to figure out how to test the R10 in a worst case scenario (indoors, limited flight, no RCT ball).
@@yannrobert8546 r10 is known for inaccurate spin axis even when setting up carefully. And honestly who is willing to spend 30 mins to setup before you get somewhat accurate readings? One can live with carry being consistently short as you can allow for it but spin axis wavering left and right is something you cant allow for.
I've heard from other videos that for the Garmin, it really helps accuracy to be level with your hitting surface and to use an alignment stick to make sure it's not crooked. The Garmin being slightly crooked could be a huge reason for the spin axis numbers being so different. Great video though, guys! Much appreciated
That was my main thought. This review is good for the “indoor sim” scenario, but I’d be curious to see how they do (mainly the MLM) in a driving range scenario - regular balls outside. I’m curious if the radar being able to read the full flight makes up the accuracy for not having the special ball.
Well if you take in on range you need 100% real data and it doesn't provide, neither-both are way off compared to Trackman so its more inside thing..if you have indor "cage" built already you pay 700-1500 whatever and have it..for real numbers idk, for amateur can be okay I guess to get some feeling on what club to use but thats all
Quality guys. I use the Garmin R10 on the course on 9-hole practice round. I get distances within 3%. Which is great for gapping & knowing my distances. Even driver is working well now. However, below 9-iron the spin can't be measured. I get anywhere between 1000-4500, and I know I spin my 60 degree wedge 9000 plus. But I LOVE my R10!
Indeed, I use a Honma TW-S ball, which gives me excellent distances on course with the R10. I even compared the ball to the Honma TW-X and the Titleist AVX. Both balls were slightly longer on driver, 5-10yrds, but lower on spin on the irons (which leads me to believe as well on wedges). Also, I love the soft feel of the TW-S on my putts, so I’m sticking to those. But especially on gapping the R 10 has helped a lot. If you play 5 9-hole rounds or so, you use most of your clubs. You can then see average distances emerge.
Would love to see you guys use the R10 the correct way. If you look at all the set up stats you should have the R 10 at the same level as the hitting mat Garmin has that as one of their set up situation. The other things is If you back filming camera was in the same place for both units the rapsodo was more directly behind the ball the the R10.
I was think my the same thing. They didn’t give it a chance because the set up is wrong. Maybe same outcome but the set up is key to both units for measurement accuracy.
Believe you could've been a little more accurate with having the Garmin unit ball level with the ball. It doesn't like being below the ball. Gives much better readings level or even a little higher than the ball even.
Yeah seemed like from the get go there was a bit of a biased. Seen quite a few reviews of the r10 and it's known that it needs to be mat level. Use it as a detriment for the device when reviewing that's fine but give it a fair shot.
Solid points by both, the face of the R10 unit was "higher" than the hitting mat; and yes ... when you bring an R10 to the range, does that mean you need to bring something to prop it on too? The box it comes in is rather thick, so that may cause it to be TOO tall. We found with the Rapsodo, no need to prop it anywhere.
@@Golficity I bought a third party stand for my R10 to raise the height of the device and the results were much more accurate. Appreciate the effort involved in putting this video together, but I think this test needs to be revisited to have a fair comparison
@@Golficity honestly I just pop my R10 on an old box of a dozen golf balls and works great. It's about the same height as the mat and slipping that in the golf bag with the R10 is no great burden. And it adds about 5 seconds to the setup time. Lol
I think the biggest issue here is that there is no mention of what you get WITHOUT the premium memberships. Based on the website all of the best features of the Rapsodo are locked behind the membership. The only things you get with the Garmin membership is Home Tee Hero and video CLOUD storage (w/o membership videos are stored on phone). The Garmin membership is also one membership for all Garmin Golf devices (like the watches, app, etc). To get spin on the Rapsodo you MUST use the RPT golf balls, which means no spin at the driving range, and it appears you MUST pay for the premium membership. So after the fist year you are going to be paying $199/year for the Rapsodo, while you can pay $0 for the Garmin.
Exactly. When you include the membership, over the 5-7 life of the MLM2, the MLM 2 will cost ~$2000. Thus, fair comparisons would be: MLM2 without membership versus the Garmin R10 without membership ($6-750 cost) MLM2 with membership to the MEVO+ (~$2000 cost)
Very good point that isn't covered much in these videos. A Garmin with RCT balls competes with this unit still. And you don't pay yearly for those calculations. Is the MLM closer, yes by a hair. Is it worth $199 extra a year and using Calloways exact same balls as RCT, in my opinion absolutely not.
So much talk about the setup for the R10 being wrong. That’s another point for MLM. If you have to have the r10 perfectly level, calibrate it, buy awesome golf software, make sure it’s lined up, turn it three times and hokey pokey then it needs easier and more accurate setups. Else the average Joe isn’t getting accurate numbers
Great video but i think the R10 need to be level with the mats,dont you thinks,it does said that on the manual so it might affect the reading a lot….your toughts?
Guys sold! MLM 2PRO results are insane. I was so excited to see these tests. Plus you can see your swing. I mean for us average golfers. No question this is the best device for training. I would like to see how accurate it still is with range balls or normal balls. I hope a firmware update will happen to include putting. This will be the device of the decade.
Garmin needs to be the same level and sitting level with what you are hitting on. This is very important for accurate numbers with it. Also, a laser that shoots down the line is very good for the Garmin so you know where it is actually aiming.
As an MLM2 pre-orderer, redo this test with a correct setup for the R10. Super unfair test. I suggest you watch David Maxfield's videos on how to properly set up R10 for maximum accuracy. Also, use Awesome Golf for the R10
What about the MLM2 with a normal ball. Not the callaway with visual spin dots. You did it for the R10, why not the mlm2? And what about the MLM2 with the RTC? does the radar pick up the RTC at all?
Did you calibrate the R10 before you hit? You're supposed to do that every time you turn it on. And yes as other comments mention it definitely works better when it's set up at the same level as the hitting mat. Also optimal distance behind the mat is 7 feet not 6... Also the Garmin automatically uses your local weather as it's default settings so if it was a little cold or was any sort of wind that day it's factoring it in. Not sure what the rapsodo does on that front.
Basically you're saying the Garmin is finicky and takes a fair bit more effort to get accurate results and the MLM doesn't. Seems like an advantage to me. We'll see how the MLM does outside on the range before declaring it the big winner but for this application it seems pretty clear cut.
Spin axis is an extremely important number. For instance I usually hit a reliable fade with my driver. I've noticed that on an expensive launch monitor like Trackman or GC4 it will capture it. When using a cheap simulator or launch monitor it will often show me hitting a pull hook which completely changes the total carry making the numbers irrelevant.
Maybe too late now. But the spin axis issue they had was due to poor alignment left to right. “Let’s Play Thru” TH-cam reviewed the R10 and he noticed the same issue with the R10 being opposite his GC3 and he corrected his set up and it was very close like all the other numbers. Also these guys didn’t have it at the same height (says it’s supposed to be)
@@SincereFaith5.0 I think you're correct. I was playing around with the ball placement at the simulator at the local golf shop which has a relatively cheap simulator. Where they had the hitting turf set up would register as a hook every time. I rarely hit a hook. I let the owner know and we adjusted the placement and got it locked in better. To be honest I think he liked it the way it was so slicers would think the new driver they were testing was fixing their slice, haha 😂
Those numbers are definitely impressive, but according to Rapsodo, you can't use e6 or awesome golf without a $200/yr Rapsodo membership (you also won't get spin numbers without that premium membership). With the Garmin R10, you can play e6 and awesome golf and get all the stats without any kind of Garmin membership. That alone is a pretty big deal considering the majority of people are gonna use e6 or awesome golf with these devices.
@@shanepotter4635 the garmin 100% can tell. Garmin software is terrible, but it’s accurate in e6 and awesome golf. When I go to the range with it the ball flight is spot on.
Great video idea... why are all the averages so far off. A quick calculation of the driver R10 numbers show an average of around 638 not 874. Why you do the R10 so dirty? Lots of the others were off too... weird. Rapsode averaged 109.67 not 70 difference on the driver. Anyway, good luck with the next spreadsheet. =(x+y+z)/3 Maybe there was data from other hits that were included in those averages and not just the three shown in the spreadsheet? Curious.
I use an R10 with Awesome golf which was purchased and GS Pro. GS Pro for indoor golf rounds. Outdoor practice area I have 80 balls in a shag bag all balls have a foil tape the size of small 1/4 inch * 3/4 inch. These work absolutely fine. Indoors I use balls dedicated to indoors here mainly Prov 1 or a decent ball. Awesome golf now allows you to export you shot records on a spreadsheet. Garmin golf is OK I don't hate it Home Tee hero is great fun. It is common knowldege the Garmin software reads screwy readings, awesome golf reads better, very accurate.
Great to finally see a MLM2 review thanks. But I would say your comments about pricing are a bit disingenuous. With the r10 you get all you need in the initial purchase price - Garmin app with multiple ranges, storage of data and download ability via free 3rd person software and most importantly for hobby sim people free life time access to 5 E6 Connect courses and some of their practice areas. I am sure the MLM2 is more accurate but for my slow swing speed and my garage Sim the R10 is more than adequate and is $100 cheaper. But most importantly if I stick with the E6 sim I don’t have to pay any subscriptions at all. Saving me $199 a year. I hate subscription software!
We already know that Garmin app numbers are not accurate, but the Awesome Golf with Garmin is as accurate as GC3? It would be worth the test to see if the unit measurement is an issue or if the app is an issue. It may just be the app? Perhaps a test worth your time.
Do you guys plan to test it out at the driving range? I hope to have an at home set up one day, but if I were to get this it would primarily be used at my local driving range.
Bought the R10 a little over a week ago based on solid reviews…wish I had seen this one before buying. I play to an 8 handicap so I’m fairly consistent with my ball strikes. My yardages are based on what I visually see at the range based in units of 5 & 10 yards since I’m estimating. This has served me well, but I was hoping to get more accurate yardages with this device. The yardages were short but decently close with my wedges, but got progressively worse as I worked my way up the bag to driver. I hit my 7 iron about 160yd, but the R10 was reading 135-140 even though I was consistently landing my ball at a flag I ranged at 158. I typically hit my driver around 260+/- which I’ve tracked with gps when walking my round, yet the R10 said I was having trouble carrying 200 and only getting 210-220 total distance. I measured and re-measured recommended and suggested distances with a measuring tape, but no improvement in accuracy was to be seen. For $600 I was losing a ton of expected accuracy both indoor on a mat and outdoor off the grass, so it was returned 2 days ago…just glad I got my money back and not store credit. However, I did order a sleeve of RCT balls on eBay for $30 that’s on it’s way based on improved accuracy reviews, so that’ll be a loss. I was never expecting pin point accuracy, but did expect decent numbers close to my estimations.
Would you guys put together a complete at home set up with one of these or a similar product, net, mats, etc and showcase a set up that would be cost feasible for lots of people while still awarding accurate and valuable practice? Maybe comparing contrasting more complete set ups?
Good video, thanks for posting it! I recently bought a used R10 after doing a ton of research. Unfortunately, Garmin's app is know to be a little off with carry distance even when using the RCT ball. I wish they would tweak their algorithms a bit and make it more accurate. There is a solution though. Awesome golf paired with the R10 and RCT or metallic dot golf balls gives extremely accurate carry distance. For some reason Awesome Golf knows how design their algorithm but Garmin doesn't. They can take all the R10 data points and tell you exactly how far the ball carried, but Garmin is a little off. The R10 is okay with shot shape/spin axis, but will never be as good as the Rapsodo for that one piece of data. Radar only will never pick up the gear effect from toe and heel shots. Only a camera based system can see that. I'm guessing those driver shots were hit off the toe and would not have faired well on an actual golf course. For someone who hits the middle of the face more often the spin axis difference would not be nearly as large.
You are exactly right about gear effect! That's my miss with the R10 (toe hook) and the R10 always shows it as a push (regardless of app - Garmin, GSPro, Awesome Golf). I purchased the MLM2 for that reason alone. Having said that, I do love the R10 for what it is.
One thing that seems a little odd in the testing is the delta between shots during the Garmin session compared to the Rapsodo sessions. Like the ball speed on the driver testing; there is a 20-50mph ball speed delta. Once I've hit a few balls, ball speed fluctuates very little for me and I'm a hack. Similar "odd" deltas are noticed with the spin axis results (I know the Garmin can be terrible in this area from first hand experience). I'm referencing the GC3 (your control group) readings for all of this. I have the Garmin and ordered the Rapsodo Feb 1st so it will be interesting to see how close different they are in the hands of a trash golfer but the test procedure feels like it might have leaned a little more to one manufacturer vs the other. Regardless, I'm excited to get my hands on the Rapsodo and the purchase was completely based on your first video covering it two months ago. Appreciate the content.
As a R10 user for a year, you did this test wrong. 1. Use awesome golf it is more accurate than garmin software. 2. Use a stand with a bubble level to make sure the R10 is level and BASE of tripod is at level of the ball. 3. Use a Ryobi laser cube to make sure you’re lined up. I set it down facing left naturally for some reason. Annoying to do all this but with the R10 you need to do this to get good numbers. I’m contemplating getting the mlm2pro, but spin behind a paywall is just greed from rapsodo and that’s annoying.
Hey boys, One thing I wanted to comment on but it is hearsay since I do not have the Garmin. I have been told that for the best accuracy the Garmin should be at the same height as the ball and it looked like the Garmin was an inch or more lower.
Hey Brian, according to the R10 manual “if you are using a golf mat, please make sure the bottom edge of the device sits above the mat”. The very bottom of the R10 is more than an inch above our hitting mat. Therefore, the R10 was in the exact location it needed to be in.
Id love to see this same Jo d of test at a driving range outdoors. A lot of us don’t have I door setups and take these devices to the range to use there. I wonder if these results would be any different outdoors with all 3 using crappy range balls.
Im sorry but you made a mistake in the comparions. When the Garmin R10 is lower than the ball, the carry distance becomes lower. When you have your ball on a mat, you have to prop up the Garmin so that they are at equal height. This is why the carry was so off. I have used the garmin r10 with a trackman using rct balls, the carry and spin is spot on. But the spin axis not good.
Good video , like every one else is requesting. Outdoor , range balls , 30,50,75,100 shots. Compare LML to Trackman or GC whatever you can compare against outdoors. Most folk want to use these at range and Rapsodo seem to be very cagey about showing this at range for some reason mmm ?
Great review, guys! As an avid R10 user, one thing that I really struggle with regarding the R10 is chip shots 15 yards or shorter. It seems that the R10 is very finicky with small shots and it will sometimes take me 5-10 shots before it registers, and usually I go long. Any way you could review the MLM and it's performance with these small shots?
The garmin is very sensitive to objects nearby. I have read comments about people having to build cages around their projectors to block the interference. So, I am wondering if the gc3 in front may impact the readings?
Of course it will,their setup is wrong,not leveled properly and gc3 in front big time affecting but i guess as long as the rapsodo looks good is fine lolll
Interesting, but I don't think 3 shots is a great sample size. Would need hundreds of each shot type and then discard all the outliers. Plus as others have said the R10 wasn't at the same level as the ball. But you have all the groundwork done for further testing. I have the Mevo+ so would be curious how it compares.
These guys were obviously paid by Raspodo to do this comparison and/or already had a negative opinion of the r10. R10 was not setup correctly and everyone knows that the Garmin app gives bad data. Redo this but get someone that knows how to use the r10 to set it up and use gspro.
I think it would be interesting to carry this exact same test outdoors. The Garmin from what I've read and picked up is not quite as accurate indoors but would it perform differently outside... from the other videos I've watched its a bit more accurate than what it appears to be indoors. Maybe something for you guys to try if you havent already?????! Great video btw, love the methodoligy and attention to detail with regards to the figures and how much research and effort put in!
I’ve got the MLM2 Pro for a week now and we really like it. We would like to know if Rapsodo can give us the option to have instant reply for the impact vision and also the option to playback swings in slow motion.
Currently, you have to go out of session to see impact vision. I have heard they will make impact vision more accessible in the future while you are in a session! As far as slow motion on swing replays if you leave your session and look at your shot list, select a shot and you should have 4 different speeds to choose from.
Thanks for the thorough comparison. As a beginning-mid golfer with deteriorating eyesight, my priority is finding a device that can accurately trace my drives so that I can find the ball on the course. Accurate stats are fine, but what device do you recommend for accurately tracing my ball flight and showing me a visual line to where it landed ?
Of course, the presumption with such testing is the GC3 is true. Although likely, my guess is it also has some inconsistencies. Only way to check some of these stats is to go outdoors and compare data with actual carry/distance, etc. MLM2Pro is impressive, esp. with the dual cameras.
Rapsodo is 200$ per year for built in feature unlock which you need - Garmin features are unlocked. Most people pay the fee for rapsodo but not Garmin, so your $$’s are massively off when the rapsodo is priced out over 4-5 years, it’s double the price for most use cases. You didn’t set the Garmin up properly either
Great content! Does the MLM 2 Pro give any measurements or indications of club path, club face at impact, or lie angle other than using the slow-mo replay? I'm mainly wanting to find out if I'm swinging in-to-out/out-to-in, am open/closed at impact, and if I'm toe up/down at impact. Thanks!
Yep me too,i dont understant this approached,yes if you want better courses or some other options but i agree with you,youll get 100% of the device only if you pay for it. Really🙈🙈. No thkx
@@slices6500 good if you can use it all year long,who can do that.what if I got winter and I just need this device for 3 month a year witch I can do with netflix or some other apps but here we talking about buying a tv but not be able to use it at it full potential unless you pay for it so Compare an apple with an apple Cause I don't agree with it...
I had the previous rapsodo and it was horrible, got the R10 and although not perfect it has improved my game by always working when I use it, comes with some courses free and shows shot shapes and distances to be closes enough. Hope they get this one right but Ill wait for more reviews
I'd love to see this test redone outdoors. I don't have an indoor space and will only be utilizing a launch monitor on the range outdoor. The issue you have is that the MLM2Pro won't do spin without the special ball, which is why I won't be buying it. But I'd still love to see you do a comparison of these 2 plus the SC4 (and SC300i if you feel like it) to see who is best outdoors.
Hello! Thank you for your interest in the MLM2PRO! The reasoning behind the monitor not recording spin when using a regular ball is because the RPT ball is so accurate. If it calculated spin without the RPT ball it would be an estimate of spin which would be very inaccurate and almost useless. Similar to a trackman or R10 when it italicizes the spin number, it is estimating.
Would you consider making an outdoor range video with the GC3 and MLM2 checking spin axis, carry, etc… without the callaway ball? I think it might be cool to see how it performs for using the sim on the range and if it is close to the callaway balls performance! Great video!
According to Rapsodo, it won't calculate spin at all without the Callaway balls, and on top of that the spin is always locked behind the premium subscription.
@@conner_productions i've yet to see a range video with mlm2 that confirmed this. but it definitely sounds like an attempt at validating subscription renewal.
Hi guys. Regarding your test between the Garmin R10 and the Rapsodo mlm2pro. Just thought I'd mention that I watched another channel talking about how to fully optimised the Garmin R10. I noticed maybe 2 things that may be causing the Garmin to be off in directional curve etc. You need to slightly move the Garmin left or right. Maybe use a string line to align parallel with the ball and intended direction. Also I noticed that the Garmin was below the mat level. So maybe try raising the Garmin up to be level with the hitting surface. Hope this helps😁. Regards David from Perth West Australia
Wonder if when using the RCT ball if it needs to be in a certain position for the R10 to get more accurate measurements. I'd imagine the foil lines would want to be horizontal with the R10 and not vertical or angled...I could see where that would effect the spin axis.
I don't know how you expect to test the R10 out with it being setup incorrectly, it's supposed to be level at the same height as your mat and should have a mat or something in front of it that is the same as well.
Are there any plans to add club path, club face angle, angle of attack to the MLM2Pro metrics? Without those metrics, I think the R10 still has the upper hand.
Will the MLM pro be ready to integrate into E6 right out of the box and are there detailed instructions somewhere? also when will we be able to buy more RPT balls? 3 will not last long.
I did notice that your mat you are hitting off of is about an inch or so thick. Garmin says you need to elevate your tripod up 1 inch. To match the mat thickness
not sure but i think the r10 is suppose to be at the same height is your matt? i might be wrong but i though when i bought mine awhile ago it said to do that. i upgraded and havent used it in a while so maybe it changed?
I wonder if the R10 was not aimed perfectly straight? That said, I'm on the market for one of these now. I'm glad I waited for the MLM2Pro to come out before dropping the cash on the R10. The impact camera alone is worth waiting for.
With the Garmin r10, I'm concerned with face angle and club path. I'm certain the MLM2 Pro doesn't have this metric. In addition, I use the Garmin R10 at range and on course practice and using top shelf used balls for practice. It would be interesting how the MLM2 Pro does with range balls which are limited flight at the my range.
It's curious how they didn't bother mentioning that face and path data is non-existent with the MLM 2. And also only tested the MLM 2 in its best case environment. Yet tested the R10 in a worst case scenario (poor setup, short flight, etc.). And were happy to hold that performance against the R10. This really wasn't a test.
@@andyp.4205 correct I'd mistakenly typed "non-existent with the R10". Meant to say with the MLM2. Had edited it shortly after, but not sure if that edit is showing. So just clarifying here as well.
Sorry,, newbie question, what is the big deal with the spin number in the first place? Why does it matter if it is spinning at 8k or 2k, couldn't they both carry the same distance?
Hi, you talk about the likeliness that these devices will be used on the range; can you do that test next; at that distance and club/ball speed, The Garmin should be in a position to read spin, rather than estimate; and will the MLM pick up anything useful with a range ball? Would be expensive to hit a bunch of proprietory MLM balls away up a public range. It would be good to see you also putting a metallic dot on the range golf balls every now and again to see how that affects the readings, as that is doable at a range. Thanks.
I have watched dozens of videos on this product mlm2pro and with each and every one including yours, nobody mentions if you can plug it in while using it as a simulator at home. Are we limited to battery life?
It seems like the angle of the swing capture on the rapsodo doesn’t capture the whole swing. What are your thoughts on this? Can the rapsodo be set on something higher and still capture the ball data?
Good thing I dont have the clearance to hit a driver in my garage! lol I have the garmin and ordered the MLM, I wanted to sell the MLM to make a lil money but now im kinda thinking selling the Garmin. My only concern is having to use the Callaway balls, how durable are they I dont want to have to buy a dozen a month.
Just as a general question, I thought the RCT all was designed for radar units and that they actually aren’t good for camera based units as the camera based units are looking for the reflective dots on the club face. Does anyone know if this is still the case? If so I’m wondering if the RCT balls can throw off GC3. I could be completely wrong so just a general question as I don’t know and can’t find anything online 😊
David, I'm sure you can switch allegiance from R10 and Awesome Golf to Rapsodo? Or are you bound by contract? 🤣🤣 Love your videos tho buddy. Can't wait for an honest review of Rapsodo from yourself. 💪👍
@@graemegibson2908 Rapsodo definitely puts a strong case forward and I can’t wait to test it 😊 my comments really are more out of excited about the products going head to head so naturally I have a lot of questions. I think the Rapsodo looks fantastic though and a plus that I can see off the bat is that you don’t have to level and setup a strand
Glad I found you guys great content. Just getting back into golf again being away several years due to 3 back surgeries and a neck surgery. This technology wasn’t out then and I am trying to learn about it. Appreciate this video
I’m in the same position! (Though my absence is from kids and job-changing). Im blown away by all the new awesome tech available. It’s a lot to take in.
Great review guys. A lot of people here bashing your setup of the R10. I think a lot of that is fair but it is still surprising how off the R10 is if it is just a small hair out of its ideal setup. I think the fact that you showed that in this video has me completely out on the R10. I really have no interest with having to engineer the perfect setup for that little garmin every time I want to use it at the range or at home
Can y’all do a test outside on grass to see how they compare. I have a Mevo and notice some severe discrepancies especially once I get into the longer irons
Doing these tests at a range and showing the real ball flight compared to what the monitors say would be nice. A slice vs a duck hook would be VERY clear. Even minute little fades and draws would be easy to see. Hard to tell if any of the equipment is accurate when you are just beating shots into a white sheet...
I have the Garmin and the biggest problem I see is the side spin accuracy. I clearly hit a fade and it shows a draw and vice versa. And this is outdoors at a range. I don’t have a home setup. I’m about to use the E6 software which I hear is way more accurate. We’ll see.
I have had the Garmin R10 for a little over a year now. It is a great monitor for the price, but the app is absolute garbage. The last two months I have not been able to save a round after finishing it, so you can't see any stats at all after playing a full round. Basically, half of the cool features you would want don't work at all. It also misses a lot of shots you take. Even when it was working fully, the app is mediocre at best. Customer service at Garmin is also extremely poor. Excited to see a better alternative now in the same price range
What test would you like to see us do next? Let us know ⬇️
Lets see regular balls with the MLM2Pro or did you omit them to make the Rapsodo look better? If a person is required to use those black dot balls, then the device is a massive failure as range work is out of the question.
Test the MLM2PRO outside! I’d be using it a lot at my local range and not have to pay for trackman each time.
Personally I have an r10 for range use, so I'd love to see an mlm 2 pro vs r10 at the range with range balls.
Also if you do this test, maybe use awesome golf for the r10, garmin's software is notoriously innacurate
Same test at driving range. Some of us that are interested in either of the units are looking at these as an econimical option when we cannot have an indoor sim or space for net. Now if I won the lotto.........lol
I heard the MLM2 pro can read clubs by showing it to the camera
Good video guys but the R10 isn’t setup correctly. The bottom of the feet need to be level with the top of the mat and it’s much better for the R10 to be on a stand 😊 also I think everyone knows that the Garmin software is not great. Would have been better to use awesome golf
Completely agree on the setup. With RCT balls and proper setup I have not see that large of a discrepancy. Would love to see a comparison by Mr. Maxfield.
@@slicingit5742 coming next week 😊
Hi David, thanks for the feedback. Regarding the setup of the R10, we followed the Garmin instructions which say "If you are using a golf mat, make sure the bottom edge of the device sits above the mat." In our test, the bottom edge of the square radar device was sitting above the height of the mat, so it should be within requirements for the R10 to work properly.
@@Golficity I’ve seen that but I think the interpretation of that wording is tricky and that Garmin need to update it. “The bottom edge of the device” to me definitely means the bottom of the tripod. At the PGA show Garmin also had the device with the tripod feet slightly above the mat 😊
Either way great video. Rapsodo looks great 👍🏼
@@davidmaxfieldgolf can you also explore/explain in your video any sort of multiplayer functionality? i am having trouble find out if there is any support for online multiplayer. i have an r10 but a big selling point for me to buy either an mlm2 or upgraded software on the r10 would be if i could play with friends online. i know it already has the local multiplayer for e6 and garmin golf.
With all due respect I think your price comparison is totally wrong. While the R10 does have a premium subscription, it's really only for access to Garmin's own simulator and not much else. No data is hidden behind a paywall. IE: Whatever it can measure/calculate is there whether you pay for a sub or not. I didn't pay for a subscription, so the initial cost is all I have paid and will ever pay. And you have access to E6 (true simulation not gimmicky Mario kart graphics) for free. Yes only 5 courses, but also the full E6 driving range, as well as Garmin's driving range etc. So it depends on what you want and need and whether an extra camera angle, storage for shots, and unlocked spin axis etc is worth $200 per year. I think that is a truer and fairer comparison. By year 3, r10 is still $600 and a mlm2 would be $1,100, almost double the cost. I think if you are really serious about seeing your swing progression from two angles (absolutely invaluable and worth it if you are making swing changes) and you want to make sure spin is more "measured" than calculated, then it's not that big a stretch to pay $200 extra a year. But if you just want to practice and see your ball flight etc, or play Sim golf with Doppler accuracy, the R10 is going to do pretty much exactly the same for alot cheaper.
100% agree. Can't imagine how guys so tuned into the golf tech scene would overlook these things. So why was the R10 portrayed in a way to make the MLM 2 pricing and subscription seem more reasonable?
Arent u forgetting ball flight direction (aka spin axis)? Inaccurate to the point of opposite spin axis is the main thing that is holding me back from the r10.
Their setup is wrong so it could affect the spin axis
@@yannrobert8546 yep. Not to mention they only tested the MLM2 in the best case scenario (with the RPT ball). Why? Yet they were able to figure out how to test the R10 in a worst case scenario (indoors, limited flight, no RCT ball).
@@yannrobert8546 r10 is known for inaccurate spin axis even when setting up carefully. And honestly who is willing to spend 30 mins to setup before you get somewhat accurate readings?
One can live with carry being consistently short as you can allow for it but spin axis wavering left and right is something you cant allow for.
I've heard from other videos that for the Garmin, it really helps accuracy to be level with your hitting surface and to use an alignment stick to make sure it's not crooked. The Garmin being slightly crooked could be a huge reason for the spin axis numbers being so different. Great video though, guys! Much appreciated
Will try this and help cuz my numbers have been so low on my r10 I'm quite disappointed lol
Would love to see a driving range test using range balls. That may be the most common use.
That was my main thought. This review is good for the “indoor sim” scenario, but I’d be curious to see how they do (mainly the MLM) in a driving range scenario - regular balls outside. I’m curious if the radar being able to read the full flight makes up the accuracy for not having the special ball.
100% agree, we have regular access to outdoor ranges, not indoor, need outside range testing.
This. Was thinking, I'm not marking range balls....
Yes, I agree, if I only use it on the range, how accurate is the data
Well if you take in on range you need 100% real data and it doesn't provide, neither-both are way off compared to Trackman so its more inside thing..if you have indor "cage" built already you pay 700-1500 whatever and have it..for real numbers idk, for amateur can be okay I guess to get some feeling on what club to use but thats all
Quality guys.
I use the Garmin R10 on the course on 9-hole practice round.
I get distances within 3%. Which is great for gapping & knowing my distances.
Even driver is working well now. However, below 9-iron the spin can't be measured.
I get anywhere between 1000-4500, and I know I spin my 60 degree wedge 9000 plus.
But I LOVE my R10!
Do you see accurate enough numbers just using any ball without it being extra or reflective tape?
Indeed, I use a Honma TW-S ball, which gives me excellent distances on course with the R10.
I even compared the ball to the Honma TW-X and the Titleist AVX. Both balls were slightly longer on driver, 5-10yrds, but lower on spin on the irons (which leads me to believe as well on wedges). Also, I love the soft feel of the TW-S on my putts, so I’m sticking to those.
But especially on gapping the R 10 has helped a lot. If you play 5 9-hole rounds or so, you use most of your clubs. You can then see average distances emerge.
Would love to see you guys use the R10 the correct way. If you look at all the set up stats you should have the R 10 at the same level as the hitting mat Garmin has that as one of their set up situation. The other things is If you back filming camera was in the same place for both units the rapsodo was more directly behind the ball the the R10.
I was think my the same thing. They didn’t give it a chance because the set up is wrong. Maybe same outcome but the set up is key to both units for measurement accuracy.
a couple of other side by side comparisons of these units found that correct height and perfect alignment to the screen improved the r10 numbers a lot
Believe you could've been a little more accurate with having the Garmin unit ball level with the ball. It doesn't like being below the ball. Gives much better readings level or even a little higher than the ball even.
Yep BOTH were setup completely incompetently
Yet with the Rapsodo made no difference . That alone tells you what to buy . Garmin is junk . Got rid of mine long ago .
Yeah seemed like from the get go there was a bit of a biased. Seen quite a few reviews of the r10 and it's known that it needs to be mat level. Use it as a detriment for the device when reviewing that's fine but give it a fair shot.
i thought the same thing
It pretty much was level. Plus do you want a launch monitor sat on the floor, especially if you use it outdoors.
Wonder if you should have had the Garmin R10 on the same level as the hitting mat, might have given you more accurate numbers
Possible but looking at real world use, having it perfectly level might not always be an option and seems to be another advantage for the MLM.
@@stevewode good point
Solid points by both, the face of the R10 unit was "higher" than the hitting mat; and yes ... when you bring an R10 to the range, does that mean you need to bring something to prop it on too? The box it comes in is rather thick, so that may cause it to be TOO tall. We found with the Rapsodo, no need to prop it anywhere.
@@Golficity I bought a third party stand for my R10 to raise the height of the device and the results were much more accurate. Appreciate the effort involved in putting this video together, but I think this test needs to be revisited to have a fair comparison
@@Golficity honestly I just pop my R10 on an old box of a dozen golf balls and works great. It's about the same height as the mat and slipping that in the golf bag with the R10 is no great burden. And it adds about 5 seconds to the setup time. Lol
I think the biggest issue here is that there is no mention of what you get WITHOUT the premium memberships. Based on the website all of the best features of the Rapsodo are locked behind the membership. The only things you get with the Garmin membership is Home Tee Hero and video CLOUD storage (w/o membership videos are stored on phone). The Garmin membership is also one membership for all Garmin Golf devices (like the watches, app, etc). To get spin on the Rapsodo you MUST use the RPT golf balls, which means no spin at the driving range, and it appears you MUST pay for the premium membership. So after the fist year you are going to be paying $199/year for the Rapsodo, while you can pay $0 for the Garmin.
Exactly. When you include the membership, over the 5-7 life of the MLM2, the MLM 2 will cost ~$2000. Thus, fair comparisons would be:
MLM2 without membership versus the Garmin R10 without membership ($6-750 cost)
MLM2 with membership to the MEVO+ (~$2000 cost)
Very good point that isn't covered much in these videos. A Garmin with RCT balls competes with this unit still. And you don't pay yearly for those calculations. Is the MLM closer, yes by a hair. Is it worth $199 extra a year and using Calloways exact same balls as RCT, in my opinion absolutely not.
So much talk about the setup for the R10 being wrong. That’s another point for MLM. If you have to have the r10 perfectly level, calibrate it, buy awesome golf software, make sure it’s lined up, turn it three times and hokey pokey then it needs easier and more accurate setups. Else the average Joe isn’t getting accurate numbers
Great video but i think the R10 need to be level with the mats,dont you thinks,it does said that on the manual so it might affect the reading a lot….your toughts?
Guys sold! MLM 2PRO results are insane. I was so excited to see these tests. Plus you can see your swing. I mean for us average golfers. No question this is the best device for training. I would like to see how accurate it still is with range balls or normal balls. I hope a firmware update will happen to include putting. This will be the device of the decade.
Garmin needs to be the same level and sitting level with what you are hitting on. This is very important for accurate numbers with it. Also, a laser that shoots down the line is very good for the Garmin so you know where it is actually aiming.
As an MLM2 pre-orderer, redo this test with a correct setup for the R10. Super unfair test. I suggest you watch David Maxfield's videos on how to properly set up R10 for maximum accuracy. Also, use Awesome Golf for the R10
We would like to thank our sponsor for this video “Rapsodo”
😂😂
What about the MLM2 with a normal ball. Not the callaway with visual spin dots. You did it for the R10, why not the mlm2? And what about the MLM2 with the RTC? does the radar pick up the RTC at all?
Did you calibrate the R10 before you hit? You're supposed to do that every time you turn it on. And yes as other comments mention it definitely works better when it's set up at the same level as the hitting mat. Also optimal distance behind the mat is 7 feet not 6...
Also the Garmin automatically uses your local weather as it's default settings so if it was a little cold or was any sort of wind that day it's factoring it in. Not sure what the rapsodo does on that front.
Basically you're saying the Garmin is finicky and takes a fair bit more effort to get accurate results and the MLM doesn't. Seems like an advantage to me. We'll see how the MLM does outside on the range before declaring it the big winner but for this application it seems pretty clear cut.
@@stevewodethe review wasn't about which one is more finicky. It was about which one was the most accurate. I just don't feel the comparison was fair.
Spin axis is an extremely important number. For instance I usually hit a reliable fade with my driver. I've noticed that on an expensive launch monitor like Trackman or GC4 it will capture it. When using a cheap simulator or launch monitor it will often show me hitting a pull hook which completely changes the total carry making the numbers irrelevant.
Maybe too late now. But the spin axis issue they had was due to poor alignment left to right.
“Let’s Play Thru” TH-cam reviewed the R10 and he noticed the same issue with the R10 being opposite his GC3 and he corrected his set up and it was very close like all the other numbers.
Also these guys didn’t have it at the same height (says it’s supposed to be)
@@SincereFaith5.0 I think you're correct. I was playing around with the ball placement at the simulator at the local golf shop which has a relatively cheap simulator. Where they had the hitting turf set up would register as a hook every time. I rarely hit a hook. I let the owner know and we adjusted the placement and got it locked in better.
To be honest I think he liked it the way it was so slicers would think the new driver they were testing was fixing their slice, haha 😂
Those numbers are definitely impressive, but according to Rapsodo, you can't use e6 or awesome golf without a $200/yr Rapsodo membership (you also won't get spin numbers without that premium membership). With the Garmin R10, you can play e6 and awesome golf and get all the stats without any kind of Garmin membership. That alone is a pretty big deal considering the majority of people are gonna use e6 or awesome golf with these devices.
Whats the point of a simulator if the launch monitor can't tell if the balls going right or left?
@@shanepotter4635 the garmin 100% can tell. Garmin software is terrible, but it’s accurate in e6 and awesome golf. When I go to the range with it the ball flight is spot on.
Could you do a test vs the gc3 with normal/range balls? If the rapsodo is accurate with range balls it would be so worth it as a range tool!
Great suggestion
Sure I think we can do that!
Great video idea... why are all the averages so far off. A quick calculation of the driver R10 numbers show an average of around 638 not 874. Why you do the R10 so dirty? Lots of the others were off too... weird. Rapsode averaged 109.67 not 70 difference on the driver. Anyway, good luck with the next spreadsheet. =(x+y+z)/3 Maybe there was data from other hits that were included in those averages and not just the three shown in the spreadsheet? Curious.
I use an R10 with Awesome golf which was purchased and GS Pro. GS Pro for indoor golf rounds. Outdoor practice area I have 80 balls in a shag bag all balls have a foil tape the size of small 1/4 inch * 3/4 inch. These work absolutely fine. Indoors I use balls dedicated to indoors here mainly Prov 1 or a decent ball. Awesome golf now allows you to export you shot records on a spreadsheet.
Garmin golf is OK I don't hate it Home Tee hero is great fun. It is common knowldege the Garmin software reads screwy readings, awesome golf reads better, very accurate.
Doesn’t the R10 need to be on the same plane as the hitting surface to get an accurate measurement? I see it’s like 2” lower on ground than your mat.
Great to finally see a MLM2 review thanks. But I would say your comments about pricing are a bit disingenuous. With the r10 you get all you need in the initial purchase price - Garmin app with multiple ranges, storage of data and download ability via free 3rd person software and most importantly for hobby sim people free life time access to 5 E6 Connect courses and some of their practice areas. I am sure the MLM2 is more accurate but for my slow swing speed and my garage Sim the R10 is more than adequate and is $100 cheaper. But most importantly if I stick with the E6 sim I don’t have to pay any subscriptions at all. Saving me $199 a year. I hate subscription software!
We already know that Garmin app numbers are not accurate, but the Awesome Golf with Garmin is as accurate as GC3? It would be worth the test to see if the unit measurement is an issue or if the app is an issue. It may just be the app? Perhaps a test worth your time.
Do you guys plan to test it out at the driving range? I hope to have an at home set up one day, but if I were to get this it would primarily be used at my local driving range.
I'd like to know about accuracy outside. I don't hit into screens or nets.
Bought the R10 a little over a week ago based on solid reviews…wish I had seen this one before buying. I play to an 8 handicap so I’m fairly consistent with my ball strikes. My yardages are based on what I visually see at the range based in units of 5 & 10 yards since I’m estimating. This has served me well, but I was hoping to get more accurate yardages with this device. The yardages were short but decently close with my wedges, but got progressively worse as I worked my way up the bag to driver. I hit my 7 iron about 160yd, but the R10 was reading 135-140 even though I was consistently landing my ball at a flag I ranged at 158. I typically hit my driver around 260+/- which I’ve tracked with gps when walking my round, yet the R10 said I was having trouble carrying 200 and only getting 210-220 total distance. I measured and re-measured recommended and suggested distances with a measuring tape, but no improvement in accuracy was to be seen. For $600 I was losing a ton of expected accuracy both indoor on a mat and outdoor off the grass, so it was returned 2 days ago…just glad I got my money back and not store credit. However, I did order a sleeve of RCT balls on eBay for $30 that’s on it’s way based on improved accuracy reviews, so that’ll be a loss. I was never expecting pin point accuracy, but did expect decent numbers close to my estimations.
Would you guys put together a complete at home set up with one of these or a similar product, net, mats, etc and showcase a set up that would be cost feasible for lots of people while still awarding accurate and valuable practice? Maybe comparing contrasting more complete set ups?
Good video, thanks for posting it!
I recently bought a used R10 after doing a ton of research. Unfortunately, Garmin's app is know to be a little off with carry distance even when using the RCT ball. I wish they would tweak their algorithms a bit and make it more accurate. There is a solution though. Awesome golf paired with the R10 and RCT or metallic dot golf balls gives extremely accurate carry distance. For some reason Awesome Golf knows how design their algorithm but Garmin doesn't. They can take all the R10 data points and tell you exactly how far the ball carried, but Garmin is a little off.
The R10 is okay with shot shape/spin axis, but will never be as good as the Rapsodo for that one piece of data. Radar only will never pick up the gear effect from toe and heel shots. Only a camera based system can see that.
I'm guessing those driver shots were hit off the toe and would not have faired well on an actual golf course. For someone who hits the middle of the face more often the spin axis difference would not be nearly as large.
You are exactly right about gear effect! That's my miss with the R10 (toe hook) and the R10 always shows it as a push (regardless of app - Garmin, GSPro, Awesome Golf). I purchased the MLM2 for that reason alone. Having said that, I do love the R10 for what it is.
Can mlm2pro be used hitting at a simulator impact screen outside?
One thing that seems a little odd in the testing is the delta between shots during the Garmin session compared to the Rapsodo sessions. Like the ball speed on the driver testing; there is a 20-50mph ball speed delta. Once I've hit a few balls, ball speed fluctuates very little for me and I'm a hack. Similar "odd" deltas are noticed with the spin axis results (I know the Garmin can be terrible in this area from first hand experience). I'm referencing the GC3 (your control group) readings for all of this. I have the Garmin and ordered the Rapsodo Feb 1st so it will be interesting to see how close different they are in the hands of a trash golfer but the test procedure feels like it might have leaned a little more to one manufacturer vs the other. Regardless, I'm excited to get my hands on the Rapsodo and the purchase was completely based on your first video covering it two months ago. Appreciate the content.
Any updates?
How does it perform outside? Bigger question for me.
Would love to see you do a test with the new Swing Caddy SC4. I am looking at that as well as the two you just tested.
As a R10 user for a year, you did this test wrong. 1. Use awesome golf it is more accurate than garmin software. 2. Use a stand with a bubble level to make sure the R10 is level and BASE of tripod is at level of the ball. 3. Use a Ryobi laser cube to make sure you’re lined up. I set it down facing left naturally for some reason. Annoying to do all this but with the R10 you need to do this to get good numbers. I’m contemplating getting the mlm2pro, but spin behind a paywall is just greed from rapsodo and that’s annoying.
Hey boys, One thing I wanted to comment on but it is hearsay since I do not have the Garmin. I have been told that for the best accuracy the Garmin should be at the same height as the ball and it looked like the Garmin was an inch or more lower.
Hey Brian, according to the R10 manual “if you are using a golf mat, please make sure the bottom edge of the device sits above the mat”. The very bottom of the R10 is more than an inch above our hitting mat. Therefore, the R10 was in the exact location it needed to be in.
@@Golficity Thanx for that!!
Id love to see this same Jo d of test at a driving range outdoors. A lot of us don’t have I door setups and take these devices to the range to use there. I wonder if these results would be any different outdoors with all 3 using crappy range balls.
Would be interesting to see Rapsodo vs Skytrak, and the same test you did here but outside since radar units tend to work better outside
Very good review and analysis... Explained very well and no unnecessary talking. Always to the point. Thank you...
Does E6 offer a free range and courses with the MLM2 like R10?
15:12 “pushed it left” lol how do you push it left?
Im sorry but you made a mistake in the comparions. When the Garmin R10 is lower than the ball, the carry distance becomes lower. When you have your ball on a mat, you have to prop up the Garmin so that they are at equal height. This is why the carry was so off. I have used the garmin r10 with a trackman using rct balls, the carry and spin is spot on. But the spin axis not good.
Good video , like every one else is requesting. Outdoor , range balls , 30,50,75,100 shots. Compare LML to Trackman or GC whatever you can compare against outdoors. Most folk want to use these at range and Rapsodo seem to be very cagey about showing this at range for some reason mmm ?
Great review, guys! As an avid R10 user, one thing that I really struggle with regarding the R10 is chip shots 15 yards or shorter. It seems that the R10 is very finicky with small shots and it will sometimes take me 5-10 shots before it registers, and usually I go long. Any way you could review the MLM and it's performance with these small shots?
The garmin is very sensitive to objects nearby. I have read comments about people having to build cages around their projectors to block the interference. So, I am wondering if the gc3 in front may impact the readings?
Of course it will,their setup is wrong,not leveled properly and gc3 in front big time affecting but i guess as long as the rapsodo looks good is fine lolll
Interesting, but I don't think 3 shots is a great sample size. Would need hundreds of each shot type and then discard all the outliers. Plus as others have said the R10 wasn't at the same level as the ball. But you have all the groundwork done for further testing. I have the Mevo+ so would be curious how it compares.
These guys were obviously paid by Raspodo to do this comparison and/or already had a negative opinion of the r10. R10 was not setup correctly and everyone knows that the Garmin app gives bad data. Redo this but get someone that knows how to use the r10 to set it up and use gspro.
I think it would be interesting to carry this exact same test outdoors. The Garmin from what I've read and picked up is not quite as accurate indoors but would it perform differently outside... from the other videos I've watched its a bit more accurate than what it appears to be indoors. Maybe something for you guys to try if you havent already?????!
Great video btw, love the methodoligy and attention to detail with regards to the figures and how much research and effort put in!
Do you think the R10 numbers would be better outside on the range?
I’ve got the MLM2 Pro for a week now and we really like it. We would like to know if Rapsodo can give us the option to have instant reply for the impact vision and also the option to playback swings in slow motion.
Currently, you have to go out of session to see impact vision. I have heard they will make impact vision more accessible in the future while you are in a session! As far as slow motion on swing replays if you leave your session and look at your shot list, select a shot and you should have 4 different speeds to choose from.
Thanks for the thorough comparison. As a beginning-mid golfer with deteriorating eyesight, my priority is finding a device that can accurately trace my drives so that I can find the ball on the course. Accurate stats are fine, but what device do you recommend for accurately tracing my ball flight and showing me a visual line to where it landed ?
Excited about the MLM2. The only negative thing is the Rapsodo simulator software doesn't have multiplayer. I don't want to get two subscriptions
Of course, the presumption with such testing is the GC3 is true. Although likely, my guess is it also has some inconsistencies. Only way to check some of these stats is to go outdoors and compare data with actual carry/distance, etc. MLM2Pro is impressive, esp. with the dual cameras.
Rapsodo is 200$ per year for built in feature unlock which you need - Garmin features are unlocked. Most people pay the fee for rapsodo but not Garmin, so your $$’s are massively off when the rapsodo is priced out over 4-5 years, it’s double the price for most use cases.
You didn’t set the Garmin up properly either
Great content! Does the MLM 2 Pro give any measurements or indications of club path, club face at impact, or lie angle other than using the slow-mo replay?
I'm mainly wanting to find out if I'm swinging in-to-out/out-to-in, am open/closed at impact, and if I'm toe up/down at impact.
Thanks!
I'm not buying anything with a yearly subscription to get all of the features.
all launch monitor have this. you dont need at Garmin u train with it is free. if you want play holes use E6 free trial for 5 courses are very good
Yep me too,i dont understant this approached,yes if you want better courses or some other options but i agree with you,youll get 100% of the device only if you pay for it. Really🙈🙈. No thkx
Track man has a subscription renewal every two years if I'm not mistaken
$1,000 for the TrackMan subscription
@@slices6500 good if you can use it all year long,who can do that.what if I got winter and I just need this device for 3 month a year witch I can do with netflix or some other apps but here we talking about buying a tv but not be able to use it at it full potential unless you pay for it so Compare an apple with an apple Cause I don't agree with it...
I would agree with some on here I think the results may vary if the garmin was on the same level.
Nice to have a outdoor test in the feature.
I had the previous rapsodo and it was horrible, got the R10 and although not perfect it has improved my game by always working when I use it, comes with some courses free and shows shot shapes and distances to be closes enough. Hope they get this one right but Ill wait for more reviews
I'd love to see this test redone outdoors. I don't have an indoor space and will only be utilizing a launch monitor on the range outdoor. The issue you have is that the MLM2Pro won't do spin without the special ball, which is why I won't be buying it. But I'd still love to see you do a comparison of these 2 plus the SC4 (and SC300i if you feel like it) to see who is best outdoors.
Hello! Thank you for your interest in the MLM2PRO! The reasoning behind the monitor not recording spin when using a regular ball is because the RPT ball is so accurate. If it calculated spin without the RPT ball it would be an estimate of spin which would be very inaccurate and almost useless. Similar to a trackman or R10 when it italicizes the spin number, it is estimating.
Would you consider making an outdoor range video with the GC3 and MLM2 checking spin axis, carry, etc… without the callaway ball? I think it might be cool to see how it performs for using the sim on the range and if it is close to the callaway balls performance! Great video!
According to Rapsodo, it won't calculate spin at all without the Callaway balls, and on top of that the spin is always locked behind the premium subscription.
@@conner_productions I have a black marker Callaway
@@conner_productions i've yet to see a range video with mlm2 that confirmed this. but it definitely sounds like an attempt at validating subscription renewal.
@@jimecherry it’s on their faq on their mlm 2 pro website page
Hi guys. Regarding your test between the Garmin R10 and the Rapsodo mlm2pro. Just thought I'd mention that I watched another channel talking about how to fully optimised the Garmin R10. I noticed maybe 2 things that may be causing the Garmin to be off in directional curve etc. You need to slightly move the Garmin left or right. Maybe use a string line to align parallel with the ball and intended direction. Also I noticed that the Garmin was below the mat level. So maybe try raising the Garmin up to be level with the hitting surface. Hope this helps😁.
Regards David from Perth West Australia
Do you get shot tracer on the indoor range with the MLM?
Wonder if when using the RCT ball if it needs to be in a certain position for the R10 to get more accurate measurements. I'd imagine the foil lines would want to be horizontal with the R10 and not vertical or angled...I could see where that would effect the spin axis.
I don't know how you expect to test the R10 out with it being setup incorrectly, it's supposed to be level at the same height as your mat and should have a mat or something in front of it that is the same as well.
When will rapsodo be taking orders? I’ve been on the waitlist for 2 weeks.
Are there any plans to add club path, club face angle, angle of attack to the MLM2Pro metrics? Without those metrics, I think the R10 still has the upper hand.
Will the MLM pro be ready to integrate into E6 right out of the box and are there detailed instructions somewhere? also when will we be able to buy more RPT balls? 3 will not last long.
I did notice that your mat you are hitting off of is about an inch or so thick. Garmin says you need to elevate your tripod up 1 inch. To match the mat thickness
not sure but i think the r10 is suppose to be at the same height is your matt? i might be wrong but i though when i bought mine awhile ago it said to do that. i upgraded and havent used it in a while so maybe it changed?
either way its sick to see another one thats a even better deal then the r10. and way more accurate
According to the Garmin instructions the bottom edge of the R10 just needs to sit above the mat height, which it did in this test.
@@Golficity I believe they mean the bottom of the entire unit which would include the legs, at least that's what I've seem with R10 users
@@Golficity oh okay ya idk where i read that then. either way its not that accurate anyway lol
@@Golficity Wrong
I wonder if the R10 was not aimed perfectly straight?
That said, I'm on the market for one of these now. I'm glad I waited for the MLM2Pro to come out before dropping the cash on the R10. The impact camera alone is worth waiting for.
what analytics are included without the paid subscription for mlm2pro?
With the Garmin r10, I'm concerned with face angle and club path. I'm certain the MLM2 Pro doesn't have this metric. In addition, I use the Garmin R10 at range and on course practice and using top shelf used balls for practice. It would be interesting how the MLM2 Pro does with range balls which are limited flight at the my range.
It's curious how they didn't bother mentioning that face and path data is non-existent with the MLM 2. And also only tested the MLM 2 in its best case environment. Yet tested the R10 in a worst case scenario (poor setup, short flight, etc.). And were happy to hold that performance against the R10. This really wasn't a test.
@Rick Jablonski R10 does have club face and club path. I agree that they set it up for failure. Not a true test.
@@andyp.4205 correct I'd mistakenly typed "non-existent with the R10". Meant to say with the MLM2. Had edited it shortly after, but not sure if that edit is showing. So just clarifying here as well.
Sorry,, newbie question, what is the big deal with the spin number in the first place? Why does it matter if it is spinning at 8k or 2k, couldn't they both carry the same distance?
Spin changes the flight path of the ball...
Hi, you talk about the likeliness that these devices will be used on the range; can you do that test next; at that distance and club/ball speed, The Garmin should be in a position to read spin, rather than estimate; and will the MLM pick up anything useful with a range ball? Would be expensive to hit a bunch of proprietory MLM balls away up a public range. It would be good to see you also putting a metallic dot on the range golf balls every now and again to see how that affects the readings, as that is doable at a range. Thanks.
I have watched dozens of videos on this product mlm2pro and with each and every one including yours, nobody mentions if you can plug it in while using it as a simulator at home. Are we limited to battery life?
Hi Kirk. Good question. Yes you can use the device while plugged in so there’s no battery life limitation. Hope that helps!
Do a side by same time comparison using the balls that you play normally, like David Maxfield did in his review of both launch monitors.
It seems like the angle of the swing capture on the rapsodo doesn’t capture the whole swing. What are your thoughts on this? Can the rapsodo be set on something higher and still capture the ball data?
Theres youtube videos of guys setting up the R10 correctly and against Gquad it gave almost identical readings. To each is own
I want to know what tee that is. All of my local ranges are mats and you cant really use a driver very well.
I'd really like to see this same test, but at night outside. Thanks for the great info!
Good thing I dont have the clearance to hit a driver in my garage! lol I have the garmin and ordered the MLM, I wanted to sell the MLM to make a lil money but now im kinda thinking selling the Garmin. My only concern is having to use the Callaway balls, how durable are they I dont want to have to buy a dozen a month.
Great video guys, what distances did you have with the mlm2 pro? Unit to ball, ball to screen?
How do Apps such as shot vision and Golfboy compare to this kind of hardware launch monitor?
Just as a general question, I thought the RCT all was designed for radar units and that they actually aren’t good for camera based units as the camera based units are looking for the reflective dots on the club face. Does anyone know if this is still the case? If so I’m wondering if the RCT balls can throw off GC3. I could be completely wrong so just a general question as I don’t know and can’t find anything online 😊
David, I'm sure you can switch allegiance from R10 and Awesome Golf to Rapsodo? Or are you bound by contract? 🤣🤣 Love your videos tho buddy. Can't wait for an honest review of Rapsodo from yourself. 💪👍
@@graemegibson2908 Rapsodo definitely puts a strong case forward and I can’t wait to test it 😊 my comments really are more out of excited about the products going head to head so naturally I have a lot of questions. I think the Rapsodo looks fantastic though and a plus that I can see off the bat is that you don’t have to level and setup a strand
Can these launch monitors measure club head speed without a ball for swing speed training?
When mlm2 gets support for gspro, it will be a game changer for the sim world.
The Garmin isn't officially supported by GS Pro, but there's a work around. Wouldn't be surprised if that weren't the same for the MLM2.
Glad I found you guys great content. Just getting back into golf again being away several years due to 3 back surgeries and a neck surgery. This technology wasn’t out then and I am trying to learn about it. Appreciate this video
I’m in the same position! (Though my absence is from kids and job-changing). Im blown away by all the new awesome tech available. It’s a lot to take in.
Great review guys. A lot of people here bashing your setup of the R10. I think a lot of that is fair but it is still surprising how off the R10 is if it is just a small hair out of its ideal setup. I think the fact that you showed that in this video has me completely out on the R10. I really have no interest with having to engineer the perfect setup for that little garmin every time I want to use it at the range or at home
What about a comparison with Skytrak? Would you be able to provide that data?
Can y’all do a test outside on grass to see how they compare. I have a Mevo and notice some severe discrepancies especially once I get into the longer irons
Doing these tests at a range and showing the real ball flight compared to what the monitors say would be nice. A slice vs a duck hook would be VERY clear. Even minute little fades and draws would be easy to see. Hard to tell if any of the equipment is accurate when you are just beating shots into a white sheet...
Can you do a video of the R10 working with the GSPro platform?
Thanks for the review. Convinced me to go with the rapasodo
Would love to see a comparison between the MLM Pro 2 and the Swing Caddie SC4.
I have the Garmin and the biggest problem I see is the side spin accuracy. I clearly hit a fade and it shows a draw and vice versa. And this is outdoors at a range. I don’t have a home setup. I’m about to use the E6 software which I hear is way more accurate. We’ll see.
please do a comparison for the voice caddie sc4 as well. thx
I have had the Garmin R10 for a little over a year now. It is a great monitor for the price, but the app is absolute garbage. The last two months I have not been able to save a round after finishing it, so you can't see any stats at all after playing a full round. Basically, half of the cool features you would want don't work at all. It also misses a lot of shots you take. Even when it was working fully, the app is mediocre at best. Customer service at Garmin is also extremely poor. Excited to see a better alternative now in the same price range