How was he right all along? He believed the Void would win, and that that's why they would be better off casting the cosmos into the fire instead. Even Taliesin's suggestion would involve proving to him that he was wrong, and that the Void _was_ defeatable. And just think about who you are seeking to redeem here. We're talking about a dude that, confronted with the odds not being in his favor, decided to: Murder all his friends. Unleash, corrupt and enslave an army set on destruction and corruption. Commit cosmic genocide. And throw infinite innocents into soul engines. Take Adolf Hitler. Multiply his evil by a hundred billion. And you got yourself a Sargeras. You can't just give Hitler a redemption arc by proving to him that going after the Jews is no longer worth his time, were he released from hell. Some deeds cannot be redeemed. And if anyone is unworthy of redemption, it is Sargeras.
I think they're right about him being the last titan and teaming up with us for that expansion, but that doesn't mean redemption. He's all about stopping the void at any cost, so he'd help us if that was the best way to do it, but I would fully expect him to immediately turn on us once the mutual enemy was dealt with. If nothing else, he'd still try to kill Azeroth while we had our guard down.
Thank you guys for making these videos, been a viewer since the build up to BfA and now I rely on y’all to know what’s going on in Azeroth while I take a break :)
Eh his goal has always been clearly stated as killing the worldsoul before anyone can get their hands on it, not freeing it or making it fel. It would be cool to have it be more nuanced but it seems much more likely that it really was as simple as him trying to stab it to death before we could lock him up. Also the Manifold was broken by the Sundering, not the stab, which itself was caused by Malfurion so that couldn't have been the Legion's intention back then either.
@@whipsybask I forgot about that weird retcon, but even going back and reading a summery of it just now, I still don't think he wouldn't fall back on the "killing her" plan if he knew he was about to lose. Plus, my point about the Manifold being long gone, being ultimately broken by Malf, and all before Sarg decided to try and convert Azeroth instead, still stands.
@@aaronyayger Chronicle mostly, a few different sources in Legion too off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others. The Burning Legion was specifically founded to wipe out life in the universe so that the Void couldn't corrupt it. A different comment response pointed out that Sargeras later had a vision that convinced him to try and corrupt Azeroth instead, but the original goal was definitely to kill her.
7:50 Interestingly, Azeroth seems to like World Trees. she blessed the aspects through them and her hunger for spirit energy coming from trees shows that life energy is something she needs/tolerates
I swear I forget Iridikron exists until you bring him up. I follow some of the other lore channels and I'm pretty sure you're the only one to ever mention him. It'll be pretty funny when they base an expansion around him and everyone is like "oh right this guy"
I really like the idea of Iridikron appearing at the last moment to stab the Titans in the back as they are weakened by their struggle against the Void. What would be even more sick is him straight up devouring them, absorbing their essences and becoming a parallel/heir to Galakrond, a godlike Titan-Eater dragon
Bliz does love their 'redemption of ___' story lines. Also, though: As The Jailer dies, his line about "a divided cosmos cannot survive -- what is coming" leaves big questions.
Thank you for this! One small note about Magni: at least I took Magni's complaints about the speaker role as complaints about the responsibility he kinda has but cannot carry out, not lack of free will. You know, like middle management, who kinda are supposed to manage resources/make decisions, but the big boss doesn't really give them the power or resources to do that properly, and still all their underlings are looking to them to support them in their jobs. No one is happy. But Magni, in the middle management here, is that dutiful, long term employee who still tries their best, and can't just quit out of sense of duty and responsibility, although technically he could just give up.
I feel like azeroth understood how isolating it was for magni, the threagar were originally earthen so being transformed into diamond would not have been an issue, but magni was of flesh before. Magni did have free will but felt burdened by being perceived as the "speaker" when in reality he hadn't been spoken to in a while and had nothing to offer people. I feel like azeroth did learn something from this as well, when magni relinquished his power to save the dormant earthen, they weren't turned into thraegar, they were just awakened as they were, because in lore the playable earthen have an azeroth power racial. So I think azeroth understood that having an outward appearance that you are chosen by her isn't exactly the free will she meant to give.
In legion we learned that Sargeras had fallen in love with azeroth, which is why he dint just kill her asap. Maybe when he struck the planet, he was not trying to kill it, but to break her free?
The "last titan" will be Sargeras, but it won't be giant world-impaling Sargeras. Illidan will allow himself to be possessed by Sargeras so that the might of a titan can be leveraged in a surgical way. No giant swords, just one super-pissed demon hunter turned demi god.
Potentially your best theory yet. If the cosmic forces of Order, Chaos, Light, Void, Life, and Death have all been fighting to collect worldsouls it makes sense that the underdog elementals represented by Iridikron end up winning the fight for the most important one. The role of death in all this doesn’t feel as fleshed out or prominent because of Shadowlands writing, but what if death is the true victor in the end? What happens to the Titans after Iridikron kills them? I also love the potential for us to actually kill Illidan because we don’t have a choice. Homie could finally be at peace…
By the time they announce Sargeras as the last titan hype will be so high. I expect that to be a big announcement. I hope for a “Argus in the sky” moment for this.
I can’t be the only “classic Andy” who, for the first time since original cataclysm, is enthusiastically playing an expansion? Did not except SoD to lead me here 😅
It is my understanding they were already repairing a section of the Coreway further in after the sundering and that they have been unable to access their power source for their Awakening Machine because the great power from below was cut off... the spiders closed the door up top but they were unaware that the Sundering broke their pipe from the main Coreway long ago.
Tali, your theory for the end of Midnight and who the last Titan will be is exactly what I e been theorizing since the World soul Saga was announced. It seems even more obvious now
Tbh I have a feeling that when azeroth hatches after all these years of being influenced by so many cosmic forces she will turn out to be an amalgamation of all of them , instead of a pure titan-ish being
Pre-patch event, Illidan comes knocking barely alive warning us to be prepared because Sargeras has broken free of his prison and is coming back yet again. No Legion this time, just him and all his fury. Opening cinematic, Sargeras narrating his backstory, what he saw from eons past and why he must do what he did. He hasn't fallen, he was and still is righteous. A cosmos divided cannot survive what is to come. We see a POV shot of him slo-mo extending his hand reaching towards Azeroth. But before it reaches the planet pulses, Azeroth awakens, her aura envelopes the planet then forms her visage (the planet gets an HD upgrade from this event), she pulls out the sword which is now imbued with her divine power and bifurcates Sargeras, spilling his blood all over her face and body as he splits in half passing through her. His final words "This was not...my destiny..." She licks her bloodied palm in a regal yet ever so suggestive manner. "Times change." X.0.2 is fighting over Sargerite. Not to be confused with Blood of Sargeras or Primal Sargerite. Seemingly a directionless expansion now that Sargeras is dead after that opening subversion. X.0.5 We switch gear as Azeroth announces to all her children that they are to join her on her Crusade to eradicate all that had came before and after, either to harm or control her ever since she was dormant, and liberate all other nascent titan souls from a similar fate. X.1.0 Azeroth confronts the Void Lords, Xal'atath pleads on their behalf at first but with one glance from Azeroth, Xal'atath was overwhelmed and stripped of her dark tint on her character model, she becomes a sub to Azeroth and assists the players in killing the Void Lords and doing everything she can to steal whatever credits to please her mistress. X.1.5 After the Void Lords were struck down Azeroth move on to the Titans Pantheon, "This lovely memento is compliment from you" She gestures at the Maelstrom while her piercing gaze locks onto Aman'thul. All the while Xal'atath points to Ama'thul and motions a dagger across her neck. X.2.0 The final patch First Ones send a message through Ven'ari that we must stop the impending Azerothian Supremacy in the universe now that the Void Lords and Pantheons are utterly destroyed. But it was a costly mistake because Azeroth was able to backdoor through Ven'ari to locate the First Ones and immediately bring them before the players and casually reminds everyone all that shit with the Maw, Korthia, and Zereth Mortis exists because of these guys. The players immediately /pull 10 and chop them down while Azeroth watches with devilish glee and can be seen faintly in the skybox during the encounter. World of Warcraft: Reign of Order (Written at the end of Shadowlands)
Ever since the Thraegar reveal I've been seeing the Curse of Flesh in a different light. Maybe it's just an analogous effect from different cosmic powers, but maybe it's just void corruption that has been tempered/modified by Azeroth's influence, which is why it ultimately lead to free will in those affected rather than the usual voidy-whispery-insanity we see from Old God/Void influence elsewhere.
Sorry if this was answered, but blizzard has mentioned in the past, “where do titans go when they die?” What if that was because the titans were worried about where old gods go when they die, and it wasn’t the titans couldn’t remove the old gods without killing Azeroth, but they wanted to keep the old gods imprisoned rather than freed to wherever they go (the twisting nether?) when they die? 14:22
Theory Time: I suspect Azerorth being a “Prime Worldsoul” means she is a blank slate. With all these cosmic forces having some influence, she will be a little bit of everything-death, Life, Fel, Order, Light, and Void all mixed into one. Iridikron will face the Titans at the end of Midnight/beginning of The Last Titan, but in a twist, we will end up on the same side because we want to protect Azeroth from the Titans. Of course, we are super badasses, so we will kill the Titans. The Last Titan will be Azeroth because I don't recall anything in the Lore specifically stating that Titans can ONLY be from the Order Pantheon. Titans are a mix of primordial forces, and if my theory is correct, with all of these influences from primordial forces trying to take over the Worldsoul, she will be the last one.
Plot Speculation: Iridikron cracks the World Core at the end of Midnight and that's what gets the Titans to show up, and is a nominal ally in The Last Titan (along with Eonar and some of the others) as we deal with Aman'thul. It lets us still have ways to have additional content in the future if we're at "we can beat the titans" level power to have more of a titan civilwar. Azeroth is indeed born as a Titan, but she vows to be the *last* Titan, and to go run around the universe finding the other world souls in Titan prisons and setting them free. When we beat Aman'thul we get an ominous warning about the First Ones who are the "real" Pantheon of Order (aka native to the Order Realm unlike Titans). Especially since if Azeroth is the "most powerful world soul" there have to be a bunch of other world souls, like Argus or Telogrus, who are still in Titan-Making-Pods.
Damn, I really like the Sargeras theory! Here are a few alternatives I can think of: 1. We need to pick a force for Azeroth (maybe it was always this way, maybe because she's already in this tug of war between forces) and Titans aren't bad. 2. We need to pick Titans because they're the only ones who can help us get back from whatever happens in midnight. 3. Titans are WIPED and cosmic balance is in danger: Azeroth needs to become a titan, because cosmos will fall into void/chaos unless each power isn't presented I kinda want yours to be the one though.
My guess is that instead of iridikron wiping out all the titans, Aman’Thul will survive the big finale of midnight, and with the defeat of the void, the end of midnight is going to confirm him as the final villain as he reveals his plan to birth the worldsoul as a Titan and not letting anyone stand in his way, making him the last Titan (I know sargeras would technically still be alive but essentially out of the story since he’s locked up). Then at the end, Azeroth gets born as the first ever non-aligned worldsoul, as a super powerful new type of being no one has ever seen before.
if Tali's theories are correct here, i just KNOW the raids are gonna be INSANE. Xal'atath, Eridikron, Sargeras, a Naaru for sure, Illidan, likely the titan pantheon in some capacity, the Ethereal assassin from the current raid, and a representative f each cosmological fore -i.e void lord/something from death, the aformentioned. like the raids and bosses are gonna be crazy.
I doubt they'd ever go in this direction, but my theory is that Sargeras is a titan-forged An'she, who had his memories blocked so he believed himself to be a titan but eventually regained them while fighting demons, which turned him against the Titans. The Legion objectively did bad stuff, but I think he could be redeemed by way of helping us stop the Titans (whether they themselves are doing it willingly or not) from taking over everything. When he glimpsed Azeroth's worldsoul his memories came back, thus enraptured - he recognised Azeroth as his 'mother'. He was trying to destroy the Worldcore to free her. I also think Mu'sha is Elune, similarly captured by the Titans and shoved in the realms of life to help perpetuate the cycle they've ordered for the universe, and the Winter Queen is the blue child Lo'sho, who is kept in the Shadowlands as a way to control Elune and keep her from interfering with their plan. (When I said their I mean whichever titan is in charge, I don't think most of them really know what's going on). There's so much room for fun twists and turns in the WoW cosmology that don't really outright break any established lore facts, just what we know about them. Even the whole Thousand Years of War passage about Argus' memories, which we assumed was his memories of the Legion, could be read as his memories of being bound by the titans and experimented on, and the 'two bright lights from Azeroth' could be An'she and Mu'sha come to try to rescue him when he cried out across the cosmos.
Theory: when a Light Titan is born, the world breaks into a thousand pieces, some of those pieces have freshly created naarus that travel the space and land in a new world soul so they can begin the process to turn it into a new Light Titan. And thats how naarus multiply ad infinitum.
Magni wasn't 'turned into a Thraegar', the Dwarves already WERE descendants of Thraegar. Magni did a ritual that returned him to stone, as the Titans intended. They 3D print races from their trip across the universe in search for a controllable race and dwarf was the closest they got, then they 'Order' them into statues and animate them into constructs to make them even easier to brainwash. Seriously, look at every crystal cave of wild magic, they all have basilisks near them (clearly changed from the crocolisks that live nearby) that have the power to petrify, which is the easiest way for Order/arcane magic to 'stop chaos'.
I have a theory (before watching the video) When Sargaras stuck his sword in the world, he wasnt aiming for the world soul. He was aiming to break the prison.
To patch in details for the “own the Titans button”: in Midnight, Xal'atath helps Iridikron use the Dark Heart to free Sargeras (she’ll sacrifice Iridikron to do so), and it’s then Sargeras who kills all other remaining titans again (but this time we help him make it permanent.) Transitioning into The Last Titan: Sargeras then has to recover from battle before he can cleave the “infected” worldsoul in half (something he has already done before elsewhere in the cosmos) so we spend The Last Titan preparing to kill him - possibly even temporarily allying ourselves with Xal'atath (and her feet) right at the end to do so. Sargeras takes out Xal’atath as he falls/explodes/implodes/whatever. After The Last Titan, it’s now up to us to cultivate the cosmos, balancing order and chaos - learning from the Titan’s mistakes.
that's pretty awesome if it plays out that way. I wrote a fan fic once where Azeroth had originally been born of the light and was being protected by Elune and An'she until she was ready to be born. I like the idea of Sargeras getting his "redemption arc" as it were. I also like the idea of Sargeras stabbing at Azeroth, not to kill her, but to damage or destroy her prison as someone else in the comments suggested. This is going to be quite the ride for the next couple of expansions regardless.
The only reason I think the Titans won't die at the end of Midnight is the way Metzen worded the reveal at Blizzcon about The Last Titan, saying the expansion starts with us 'witnessing the return of the Titans to Azeroth at Ulduar'. Sargeras being the titular Last Titan by the end of the expansion and finding out that when he stabbed the planet he was trying to destroy the Titan prison and free the world soul would be a huge swing, and I can see it happening.
Taliesin, love the effort at the end, but do remember that when they described TLT at Blizzcon 2023, they stated that it begins with the Titans returning to Azeroth to guide or stop us. I don't think they'd die at the outset, when it's meant for them to be plot points for the entire expac.
My uneducated lore: Sargeras put the sword into Azeroth because he knew this was going to happen so he was trying to stop this timeline from proceeding.
I do have one genuine wish when Iridikron shows up. Regardless of it's context, I hope no one lets him get away with saying "You see, I was right all along!" regarding the Titans. Between his dealings with the Void and siccing Fyrakk on Amirdrassil, it's painfully obvious that he doesn't actually have Azeroth's best interests at heart even if the Titan's don't either.
Beledar seems to be the point of Sargeras' sword and the fact it switches between the gold and void is because Sargeras is at war with himself. I know its probably a long shot or stupid but it looked like the point of his sword to me and seems to be impaled in the ceiling of the world there.
I dont know about it being such wild headcanon about Sargeras. Ive been thinking for a while that Midnight ending/Last Titan would be a Legion-esque Illigeras deus ex machina fan service kind of thing - and my body is ready. Heh Speculation is so much fun, and Im actually anticipating where the store goes next more than I have in a while.
Sargeras makes the most sense as the last titan but…tinfoil hat with me for a second. Calling the light being the first to affect her “canon”, then the void, then order and life, next came chaos/fel from Sarggy’s sword and Azshara tainting the well that caused the sundering. Finally she was afflicted by death from super nipple mech baddie in the forge of souls. Since she’s now been “touched” by all forms of magic, by our powers combined, she’s now Captain Planet. Thus being the one being that is a combination of all forms of magic for all of the cosmos to rally behind. This ties directly back to the jailer’s “a cosmos divided will not survive what is to come.”
Hope y'all enjoyed your Christmas! Can't wait to see your reaction to Season 2's tier sets. I think we've got some bangers (sorry for your priest, Tali, but you did eat in S1).
My biggest question is if you had to put all three of these expansions into one novel, who would the main character be? If you had to pick one hero to represent the player character, what class would they be a human paladin a night owl hunter? An orc warrior?
The thing this theory leaves unanswered, which it must at this point, is what is Azeroth then? The cosmological forces are so named because those are the elements that make up the universe (along with the four plus one elements). But if Azeroth is something the others must fight to influence, if she must have the others overlaid onto her, then what is she? What can she be if she's not an element of this universe?
I'm just hoping that if Azeroth gets a humanoid form, that it looks like a Troll or Elf. Everything we've seen so far points to troll/elf lineage being super-adaptable to changing conditions on Azeroth. So, to me, it just points to Azeroth being a mega-Elf/troll
The last titan is going to be sargeras. The star is going to go “boom”. The seat of the pantheon will return with Illidan pulling one of his glaives out of aman’thul’s chest. The rest of the titans dead at his feet. He’ll turn around with the dark looming figure of sargeras behind him and say… We are not prepared!
The one thing I'd shift a little.. is that the titan extinction is likely happening during Last Titan somewhere.. because rarely do the expansions get so focused on their sneaky title right from the start. BFA did it, as did War Within. But that's hard for us to properly predict in a reasonable way now, because if we can, then we've done what blizzard had years to do.
I don't think Illidan has "imprisoned" Sargeras in the traditional sense. Rather, due to the nebulous nature of the passage of time in different parts of the universe, he will have been in a constant battle with Sargeras for possibly hundreds of years. We will have to locate whatever pocket dimension they inhabit and try to convince Illidan to let him live, or perhaps be forced to kill Illidan to get Sargeras's help in a "for the greater good" scenario.
or illidan absorbs sargeras' power and becomes the last titan, a mirror to the power of gul'dan he claimed to ascend to his current form that being said, illidan did say he wasn't coming back when he left with sargeras; that the future was left in our hands
While Amitus, the Peacekeeper is currently only in Hearthstone as another member of the Pantheon it’s not necessarily impossible that she’ll remain non-canon to WoW.
Your head canon definitely makes a lot of sense. My only other thought is that perhaps Illidan decides to help us of his own free will--since he's that "free will" kind of guy as set up from Legion. Maybe that's where we have the big Light War...but we discover that Azeroth has incorporated every aspect of the cosmos into herself and is thus born with all the cosmic forces of the universe. Maybe that's why Illy and Sarge come back--to battle the deeply entrenched Light, since Illy definitely didn't care for Xe'ra's trying to enslave him. Maybe he doesn't want Azzie to be enslaved by the Light, either. Maybe we're battling both the Light and the Legion? But why the title "The Last Titan?" I feel like that implies that we're going to be fighting them--just like we're dealing with (and learning a lot about) all the other cosmic forces in TWW, we deal with the Void and the Light, and perhaps last of all, the Legion? I dunno. It's weird, and I don't have a good idea yet for TLT, but I'll keep thinking on it. It'll be neat to see where Midnight goes. I expect we'll have a better idea then.
I had a similar thought that Sargeras was the last titan. Obviously, Azeroth having properties of the light, she is a Dracthyr Paladin! PS We only have so much time before the Mountain Dew promo ends and I need to figure out what to do with the points so I can give them to you to distribute.
Dagran: "Peanut butter... AND jelly? D'ya reckon that's why they call it a peanut butter and jelly sandwich?"
gren'da liked peanut butter and jelly
Since the very beginning Azeroth has basked in the light of An'she; so it makes sense if the light was the first influence on her :)
Azeroth is that kid in their bedroom listening to the rest of the family argue in the kitchen, just waiting for it to end so she can go back to sleep.
Azeroth is a dreadlord confirmed.
Azeroth is Jaina who is a Dreadlord, confirmed
Obviously there is a hunter with two enormous pink elephants afking on screen when the story is about to peak 😅 Damn the titans....
LMAO. Thank you. I needed to make sure I wasn't the only completely distracted by giant pink elephants lol
best comment hahaha
@@d4mephisto - no, other people have also seen the video
The theory about the ID of the last Titan is wild, but I love it.
I think your right about Sargeras. I sense a redemption arc coming for him. He was right all along.
How was he right all along? He believed the Void would win, and that that's why they would be better off casting the cosmos into the fire instead. Even Taliesin's suggestion would involve proving to him that he was wrong, and that the Void _was_ defeatable.
And just think about who you are seeking to redeem here. We're talking about a dude that, confronted with the odds not being in his favor, decided to: Murder all his friends. Unleash, corrupt and enslave an army set on destruction and corruption. Commit cosmic genocide. And throw infinite innocents into soul engines.
Take Adolf Hitler. Multiply his evil by a hundred billion. And you got yourself a Sargeras. You can't just give Hitler a redemption arc by proving to him that going after the Jews is no longer worth his time, were he released from hell.
Some deeds cannot be redeemed. And if anyone is unworthy of redemption, it is Sargeras.
Oh god, please not another redemption arc. For the guy that genocided ENTIRE PLANETS.
I don't expect redemption, but I do expect they are correct about him being thr last titan
I think they're right about him being the last titan and teaming up with us for that expansion, but that doesn't mean redemption. He's all about stopping the void at any cost, so he'd help us if that was the best way to do it, but I would fully expect him to immediately turn on us once the mutual enemy was dealt with.
If nothing else, he'd still try to kill Azeroth while we had our guard down.
He did try to murder all of us. Don't know how 'right' that makes him.
Thank you guys for making these videos, been a viewer since the build up to BfA and now I rely on y’all to know what’s going on in Azeroth while I take a break :)
Maybe Sargeras was aiming at the Manifold? or the "Prison"? Making Azeroth voice slowly come through the cracks in the prison
Eh his goal has always been clearly stated as killing the worldsoul before anyone can get their hands on it, not freeing it or making it fel. It would be cool to have it be more nuanced but it seems much more likely that it really was as simple as him trying to stab it to death before we could lock him up.
Also the Manifold was broken by the Sundering, not the stab, which itself was caused by Malfurion so that couldn't have been the Legion's intention back then either.
@@Fable91 In Chronicle and in the Warlock order hall it's actually stated he does want to make Azeroth "his", not destroy the world soul.
@@whipsybask I forgot about that weird retcon, but even going back and reading a summery of it just now, I still don't think he wouldn't fall back on the "killing her" plan if he knew he was about to lose.
Plus, my point about the Manifold being long gone, being ultimately broken by Malf, and all before Sarg decided to try and convert Azeroth instead, still stands.
@@Fable91 Clearly stated by....? The titans? We don't ever get Sargeras himself or even the legion saying that they're doing this lmao.
@@aaronyayger Chronicle mostly, a few different sources in Legion too off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others. The Burning Legion was specifically founded to wipe out life in the universe so that the Void couldn't corrupt it.
A different comment response pointed out that Sargeras later had a vision that convinced him to try and corrupt Azeroth instead, but the original goal was definitely to kill her.
7:50 Interestingly, Azeroth seems to like World Trees. she blessed the aspects through them and her hunger for spirit energy coming from trees shows that life energy is something she needs/tolerates
I swear I forget Iridikron exists until you bring him up. I follow some of the other lore channels and I'm pretty sure you're the only one to ever mention him. It'll be pretty funny when they base an expansion around him and everyone is like "oh right this guy"
tell us you dont play the game without telling us.
tali is too good at convincing me of the wildest theories
Gotta say, this is the best explanation i’ve seen so far
I really like the idea of Iridikron appearing at the last moment to stab the Titans in the back as they are weakened by their struggle against the Void. What would be even more sick is him straight up devouring them, absorbing their essences and becoming a parallel/heir to Galakrond, a godlike Titan-Eater dragon
Bliz does love their 'redemption of ___' story lines.
Also, though:
As The Jailer dies, his line about "a divided cosmos cannot survive -- what is coming" leaves big questions.
Thank you for this!
One small note about Magni: at least I took Magni's complaints about the speaker role as complaints about the responsibility he kinda has but cannot carry out, not lack of free will.
You know, like middle management, who kinda are supposed to manage resources/make decisions, but the big boss doesn't really give them the power or resources to do that properly, and still all their underlings are looking to them to support them in their jobs. No one is happy. But Magni, in the middle management here, is that dutiful, long term employee who still tries their best, and can't just quit out of sense of duty and responsibility, although technically he could just give up.
I feel like azeroth understood how isolating it was for magni, the threagar were originally earthen so being transformed into diamond would not have been an issue, but magni was of flesh before. Magni did have free will but felt burdened by being perceived as the "speaker" when in reality he hadn't been spoken to in a while and had nothing to offer people. I feel like azeroth did learn something from this as well, when magni relinquished his power to save the dormant earthen, they weren't turned into thraegar, they were just awakened as they were, because in lore the playable earthen have an azeroth power racial. So I think azeroth understood that having an outward appearance that you are chosen by her isn't exactly the free will she meant to give.
You've just explained me at my job 😢
Sargeras the last titan? Makes sense as that red star in the sky box isn’t moving away from us (diminishing in brightness) over several expansions.
isnt he red start the the vindicaar?
I love that Azeroth is creating an army of Titan creations. Looking forward to meeting her in TLT!
20:20 hear me out: Illidan eats Sargeras
In legion we learned that Sargeras had fallen in love with azeroth, which is why he dint just kill her asap.
Maybe when he struck the planet, he was not trying to kill it, but to break her free?
The "last titan" will be Sargeras, but it won't be giant world-impaling Sargeras.
Illidan will allow himself to be possessed by Sargeras so that the might of a titan can be leveraged in a surgical way. No giant swords, just one super-pissed demon hunter turned demi god.
He'll be made to succumb as other titans won't let him just torture their brother for all enternity...
Potentially your best theory yet. If the cosmic forces of Order, Chaos, Light, Void, Life, and Death have all been fighting to collect worldsouls it makes sense that the underdog elementals represented by Iridikron end up winning the fight for the most important one.
The role of death in all this doesn’t feel as fleshed out or prominent because of Shadowlands writing, but what if death is the true victor in the end? What happens to the Titans after Iridikron kills them? I also love the potential for us to actually kill Illidan because we don’t have a choice. Homie could finally be at peace…
By the time they announce Sargeras as the last titan hype will be so high. I expect that to be a big announcement. I hope for a “Argus in the sky” moment for this.
Merry Christmas and a happy New Year everyone!
I can’t be the only “classic Andy” who, for the first time since original cataclysm, is enthusiastically playing an expansion? Did not except SoD to lead me here 😅
It is my understanding they were already repairing a section of the Coreway further in after the sundering and that they have been unable to access their power source for their Awakening Machine because the great power from below was cut off... the spiders closed the door up top but they were unaware that the Sundering broke their pipe from the main Coreway long ago.
Tali, your theory for the end of Midnight and who the last Titan will be is exactly what I e been theorizing since the World soul Saga was announced. It seems even more obvious now
Your forecast for the trilogy* is exactly where i see it going. Also: more demon hunter races.
No the demon hunters are the illidari, and are only elves . Illidan would have to be involved, and he's not interested in other races
Tbh I have a feeling that when azeroth hatches after all these years of being influenced by so many cosmic forces she will turn out to be an amalgamation of all of them , instead of a pure titan-ish being
I like that. The last Titan is Sargeras the big bad who started it all in a way had to be the last boss of the entire universe.
Thank you for brightening my morning before work!
Pre-patch event, Illidan comes knocking barely alive warning us to be prepared because Sargeras has broken free of his prison and is coming back yet again. No Legion this time, just him and all his fury.
Opening cinematic, Sargeras narrating his backstory, what he saw from eons past and why he must do what he did. He hasn't fallen, he was and still is righteous. A cosmos divided cannot survive what is to come. We see a POV shot of him slo-mo extending his hand reaching towards Azeroth. But before it reaches the planet pulses, Azeroth awakens, her aura envelopes the planet then forms her visage (the planet gets an HD upgrade from this event), she pulls out the sword which is now imbued with her divine power and bifurcates Sargeras, spilling his blood all over her face and body as he splits in half passing through her. His final words "This was not...my destiny..." She licks her bloodied palm in a regal yet ever so suggestive manner. "Times change."
X.0.2 is fighting over Sargerite. Not to be confused with Blood of Sargeras or Primal Sargerite. Seemingly a directionless expansion now that Sargeras is dead after that opening subversion.
X.0.5 We switch gear as Azeroth announces to all her children that they are to join her on her Crusade to eradicate all that had came before and after, either to harm or control her ever since she was dormant, and liberate all other nascent titan souls from a similar fate.
X.1.0 Azeroth confronts the Void Lords, Xal'atath pleads on their behalf at first but with one glance from Azeroth, Xal'atath was overwhelmed and stripped of her dark tint on her character model, she becomes a sub to Azeroth and assists the players in killing the Void Lords and doing everything she can to steal whatever credits to please her mistress.
X.1.5 After the Void Lords were struck down Azeroth move on to the Titans Pantheon, "This lovely memento is compliment from you" She gestures at the Maelstrom while her piercing gaze locks onto Aman'thul. All the while Xal'atath points to Ama'thul and motions a dagger across her neck.
X.2.0 The final patch First Ones send a message through Ven'ari that we must stop the impending Azerothian Supremacy in the universe now that the Void Lords and Pantheons are utterly destroyed. But it was a costly mistake because Azeroth was able to backdoor through Ven'ari to locate the First Ones and immediately bring them before the players and casually reminds everyone all that shit with the Maw, Korthia, and Zereth Mortis exists because of these guys. The players immediately /pull 10 and chop them down while Azeroth watches with devilish glee and can be seen faintly in the skybox during the encounter.
World of Warcraft: Reign of Order (Written at the end of Shadowlands)
Ever since the Thraegar reveal I've been seeing the Curse of Flesh in a different light. Maybe it's just an analogous effect from different cosmic powers, but maybe it's just void corruption that has been tempered/modified by Azeroth's influence, which is why it ultimately lead to free will in those affected rather than the usual voidy-whispery-insanity we see from Old God/Void influence elsewhere.
Sorry if this was answered, but blizzard has mentioned in the past, “where do titans go when they die?” What if that was because the titans were worried about where old gods go when they die, and it wasn’t the titans couldn’t remove the old gods without killing Azeroth, but they wanted to keep the old gods imprisoned rather than freed to wherever they go (the twisting nether?) when they die? 14:22
I hate, with a genuine passion, how often Taliesin is right in his predictions, because they makes me giddy if his prediction is correct.
Theory Time: I suspect Azerorth being a “Prime Worldsoul” means she is a blank slate. With all these cosmic forces having some influence, she will be a little bit of everything-death, Life, Fel, Order, Light, and Void all mixed into one.
Iridikron will face the Titans at the end of Midnight/beginning of The Last Titan, but in a twist, we will end up on the same side because we want to protect Azeroth from the Titans. Of course, we are super badasses, so we will kill the Titans.
The Last Titan will be Azeroth because I don't recall anything in the Lore specifically stating that Titans can ONLY be from the Order Pantheon. Titans are a mix of primordial forces, and if my theory is correct, with all of these influences from primordial forces trying to take over the Worldsoul, she will be the last one.
Plot Speculation: Iridikron cracks the World Core at the end of Midnight and that's what gets the Titans to show up, and is a nominal ally in The Last Titan (along with Eonar and some of the others) as we deal with Aman'thul. It lets us still have ways to have additional content in the future if we're at "we can beat the titans" level power to have more of a titan civilwar. Azeroth is indeed born as a Titan, but she vows to be the *last* Titan, and to go run around the universe finding the other world souls in Titan prisons and setting them free. When we beat Aman'thul we get an ominous warning about the First Ones who are the "real" Pantheon of Order (aka native to the Order Realm unlike Titans).
Especially since if Azeroth is the "most powerful world soul" there have to be a bunch of other world souls, like Argus or Telogrus, who are still in Titan-Making-Pods.
didnt argus get popped out of his titan pod in legion though?
Argus has been destroyed. He was the final boss of legion
Don't forget: Sargeras is completly mad, nuts, lunatic...
Damn, I really like the Sargeras theory! Here are a few alternatives I can think of:
1. We need to pick a force for Azeroth (maybe it was always this way, maybe because she's already in this tug of war between forces) and Titans aren't bad.
2. We need to pick Titans because they're the only ones who can help us get back from whatever happens in midnight.
3. Titans are WIPED and cosmic balance is in danger: Azeroth needs to become a titan, because cosmos will fall into void/chaos unless each power isn't presented
I kinda want yours to be the one though.
Those Thraegar are most likely heretics from Avaloren mentioned before,i can see they helping us fighting titans in The Last Titan expansion
My guess is that instead of iridikron wiping out all the titans, Aman’Thul will survive the big finale of midnight, and with the defeat of the void, the end of midnight is going to confirm him as the final villain as he reveals his plan to birth the worldsoul as a Titan and not letting anyone stand in his way, making him the last Titan (I know sargeras would technically still be alive but essentially out of the story since he’s locked up). Then at the end, Azeroth gets born as the first ever non-aligned worldsoul, as a super powerful new type of being no one has ever seen before.
if Tali's theories are correct here, i just KNOW the raids are gonna be INSANE.
Xal'atath, Eridikron, Sargeras, a Naaru for sure, Illidan, likely the titan pantheon in some capacity, the Ethereal assassin from the current raid, and a representative f each cosmological fore -i.e void lord/something from death, the aformentioned.
like the raids and bosses are gonna be crazy.
We need a serious debate about the Lore from beginning to end someday.
I doubt they'd ever go in this direction, but my theory is that Sargeras is a titan-forged An'she, who had his memories blocked so he believed himself to be a titan but eventually regained them while fighting demons, which turned him against the Titans. The Legion objectively did bad stuff, but I think he could be redeemed by way of helping us stop the Titans (whether they themselves are doing it willingly or not) from taking over everything. When he glimpsed Azeroth's worldsoul his memories came back, thus enraptured - he recognised Azeroth as his 'mother'. He was trying to destroy the Worldcore to free her.
I also think Mu'sha is Elune, similarly captured by the Titans and shoved in the realms of life to help perpetuate the cycle they've ordered for the universe, and the Winter Queen is the blue child Lo'sho, who is kept in the Shadowlands as a way to control Elune and keep her from interfering with their plan. (When I said their I mean whichever titan is in charge, I don't think most of them really know what's going on).
There's so much room for fun twists and turns in the WoW cosmology that don't really outright break any established lore facts, just what we know about them. Even the whole Thousand Years of War passage about Argus' memories, which we assumed was his memories of the Legion, could be read as his memories of being bound by the titans and experimented on, and the 'two bright lights from Azeroth' could be An'she and Mu'sha come to try to rescue him when he cried out across the cosmos.
Theory: when a Light Titan is born, the world breaks into a thousand pieces, some of those pieces have freshly created naarus that travel the space and land in a new world soul so they can begin the process to turn it into a new Light Titan.
And thats how naarus multiply ad infinitum.
Magni wasn't 'turned into a Thraegar', the Dwarves already WERE descendants of Thraegar. Magni did a ritual that returned him to stone, as the Titans intended. They 3D print races from their trip across the universe in search for a controllable race and dwarf was the closest they got, then they 'Order' them into statues and animate them into constructs to make them even easier to brainwash. Seriously, look at every crystal cave of wild magic, they all have basilisks near them (clearly changed from the crocolisks that live nearby) that have the power to petrify, which is the easiest way for Order/arcane magic to 'stop chaos'.
I have a theory (before watching the video)
When Sargaras stuck his sword in the world, he wasnt aiming for the world soul.
He was aiming to break the prison.
I can't wait to see Iridikron again. I hope he doesn't use some major spell or anything like that - I hope he just beats them up!
To patch in details for the “own the Titans button”: in Midnight, Xal'atath helps Iridikron use the Dark Heart to free Sargeras (she’ll sacrifice Iridikron to do so), and it’s then Sargeras who kills all other remaining titans again (but this time we help him make it permanent.)
Transitioning into The Last Titan: Sargeras then has to recover from battle before he can cleave the “infected” worldsoul in half (something he has already done before elsewhere in the cosmos) so we spend The Last Titan preparing to kill him - possibly even temporarily allying ourselves with Xal'atath (and her feet) right at the end to do so. Sargeras takes out Xal’atath as he falls/explodes/implodes/whatever.
After The Last Titan, it’s now up to us to cultivate the cosmos, balancing order and chaos - learning from the Titan’s mistakes.
that's pretty awesome if it plays out that way. I wrote a fan fic once where Azeroth had originally been born of the light and was being protected by Elune and An'she until she was ready to be born. I like the idea of Sargeras getting his "redemption arc" as it were. I also like the idea of Sargeras stabbing at Azeroth, not to kill her, but to damage or destroy her prison as someone else in the comments suggested. This is going to be quite the ride for the next couple of expansions regardless.
The only reason I think the Titans won't die at the end of Midnight is the way Metzen worded the reveal at Blizzcon about The Last Titan, saying the expansion starts with us 'witnessing the return of the Titans to Azeroth at Ulduar'. Sargeras being the titular Last Titan by the end of the expansion and finding out that when he stabbed the planet he was trying to destroy the Titan prison and free the world soul would be a huge swing, and I can see it happening.
I have 100% been on the “the last titan is sargeras and he’s gonna come back for his sword” train
Taliesin, love the effort at the end, but do remember that when they described TLT at Blizzcon 2023, they stated that it begins with the Titans returning to Azeroth to guide or stop us. I don't think they'd die at the outset, when it's meant for them to be plot points for the entire expac.
what happens to all the people on the planet if azeroth prime hatches?
Oh my god, I got goosebumps when you werer talking about sargaeras being teh last titan
My uneducated lore: Sargeras put the sword into Azeroth because he knew this was going to happen so he was trying to stop this timeline from proceeding.
I had forgotten about sargeras being a titan! Ur theory makes a lot of sense. 👍🏼
I hope Sylvanas's " this World is a prison" line comes into play
If Beledar is not a Light equivalent of digging into the world soul like world trees and manifolds then I don't know what.
I do have one genuine wish when Iridikron shows up. Regardless of it's context, I hope no one lets him get away with saying "You see, I was right all along!" regarding the Titans. Between his dealings with the Void and siccing Fyrakk on Amirdrassil, it's painfully obvious that he doesn't actually have Azeroth's best interests at heart even if the Titan's don't either.
We won't ever permanently get rid of the void. Imagine the tragedy
I would be surprised if blizzard lets a villain have a moment in the sun at the end of an expansion, no matter how amazing that ending would be.
We are not prepared...
The lore has always been the biggest pull for me in the warcraft series, but man, the more I lean about it now the more I hate it.
Beledar seems to be the point of Sargeras' sword and the fact it switches between the gold and void is because Sargeras is at war with himself. I know its probably a long shot or stupid but it looked like the point of his sword to me and seems to be impaled in the ceiling of the world there.
I hope that's how Midnight and the start of last titan goes
You're hurting my heart with the Last Light Inn music 😭
Sargeras might actually be the only one who didn't try to get control over the world soul
So Sargeras says, sorry about my sword and takes it out. Then the Last Titan says no problem....then kills him.
Last Titian is probably sargaras, but there’s no way we don’t have a boss fight against at least Aman’Thul somewhere along the way
I dont know about it being such wild headcanon about Sargeras. Ive been thinking for a while that Midnight ending/Last Titan would be a Legion-esque Illigeras deus ex machina fan service kind of thing - and my body is ready. Heh Speculation is so much fun, and Im actually anticipating where the store goes next more than I have in a while.
My boys Sargie and Illidan are getting Gorribal back to stab a dragon with it. I like it.
I was weary of earthen as new race but the lore they give is so well laid out that it matches some of the OG races
To be honest, a whole boss fight again with Liam O'Brien's voice mocking me for not being prepared? I'm down with a lil Illi-daddy fight.
I think it adds an interesting possible subtext to Sylvanas' line "This world is a prison!"
No it doesn't. She was talking about a prison for MORTALS. She was talking about death machinery
I've been looking forward to sargeras flight for over 20 years now, but your idea seems great
Sargeras makes the most sense as the last titan but…tinfoil hat with me for a second.
Calling the light being the first to affect her “canon”, then the void, then order and life, next came chaos/fel from Sarggy’s sword and Azshara tainting the well that caused the sundering. Finally she was afflicted by death from super nipple mech baddie in the forge of souls. Since she’s now been “touched” by all forms of magic, by our powers combined, she’s now Captain Planet. Thus being the one being that is a combination of all forms of magic for all of the cosmos to rally behind. This ties directly back to the jailer’s “a cosmos divided will not survive what is to come.”
Hope y'all enjoyed your Christmas! Can't wait to see your reaction to Season 2's tier sets. I think we've got some bangers (sorry for your priest, Tali, but you did eat in S1).
The Last Titan is either gonna be Azeroth herself Or a redeemed Sargergas (Blizzard love making old threats into new best buddies)
My biggest question is if you had to put all three of these expansions into one novel, who would the main character be? If you had to pick one hero to represent the player character, what class would they be a human paladin a night owl hunter? An orc warrior?
"This world is a prison"
Sylvanas windrunner
I feel eveything from the legion to the jailor will be tide in at the end.
We have to remember that Elune comes into it somehow, as well.
Thanks Evi!
Such a great video! Thank you.
As long as I get to see illidan and sargeras again I'm good
The thing this theory leaves unanswered, which it must at this point, is what is Azeroth then? The cosmological forces are so named because those are the elements that make up the universe (along with the four plus one elements). But if Azeroth is something the others must fight to influence, if she must have the others overlaid onto her, then what is she? What can she be if she's not an element of this universe?
Did I just hear Tali make a reference to Garth Marenghi’s Dark Place? A true man of culture indeed.
I'm just hoping that if Azeroth gets a humanoid form, that it looks like a Troll or Elf. Everything we've seen so far points to troll/elf lineage being super-adaptable to changing conditions on Azeroth. So, to me, it just points to Azeroth being a mega-Elf/troll
The last titan is going to be sargeras. The star is going to go “boom”. The seat of the pantheon will return with Illidan pulling one of his glaives out of aman’thul’s chest. The rest of the titans dead at his feet. He’ll turn around with the dark looming figure of sargeras behind him and say…
We are not prepared!
The one thing I'd shift a little.. is that the titan extinction is likely happening during Last Titan somewhere.. because rarely do the expansions get so focused on their sneaky title right from the start. BFA did it, as did War Within. But that's hard for us to properly predict in a reasonable way now, because if we can, then we've done what blizzard had years to do.
Hahaha that merey Christmas just jammed at the end
I don't think Illidan has "imprisoned" Sargeras in the traditional sense. Rather, due to the nebulous nature of the passage of time in different parts of the universe, he will have been in a constant battle with Sargeras for possibly hundreds of years. We will have to locate whatever pocket dimension they inhabit and try to convince Illidan to let him live, or perhaps be forced to kill Illidan to get Sargeras's help in a "for the greater good" scenario.
I really like your theory Tali but its obviously Blizz will not do that, since Blizz loves going on the contrary of anything you come up to 😂
or illidan absorbs sargeras' power and becomes the last titan, a mirror to the power of gul'dan he claimed to ascend to his current form
that being said, illidan did say he wasn't coming back when he left with sargeras; that the future was left in our hands
I love these deep dives and your speculation is always so ‘hel yeah tha would be sick’ , know what I mean?
While Amitus, the Peacekeeper is currently only in Hearthstone as another member of the Pantheon it’s not necessarily impossible that she’ll remain non-canon to WoW.
Would be interesting if amitus was being used as a conduit to power the prison surrounding azeroth.
Your head canon definitely makes a lot of sense. My only other thought is that perhaps Illidan decides to help us of his own free will--since he's that "free will" kind of guy as set up from Legion. Maybe that's where we have the big Light War...but we discover that Azeroth has incorporated every aspect of the cosmos into herself and is thus born with all the cosmic forces of the universe. Maybe that's why Illy and Sarge come back--to battle the deeply entrenched Light, since Illy definitely didn't care for Xe'ra's trying to enslave him. Maybe he doesn't want Azzie to be enslaved by the Light, either. Maybe we're battling both the Light and the Legion? But why the title "The Last Titan?" I feel like that implies that we're going to be fighting them--just like we're dealing with (and learning a lot about) all the other cosmic forces in TWW, we deal with the Void and the Light, and perhaps last of all, the Legion? I dunno. It's weird, and I don't have a good idea yet for TLT, but I'll keep thinking on it. It'll be neat to see where Midnight goes. I expect we'll have a better idea then.
Hi from Costa Rica :)
Okay so that means the War Within is the war over who gets to imprint Azeroth. Nice.
I had a similar thought that Sargeras was the last titan.
Obviously, Azeroth having properties of the light, she is a Dracthyr Paladin!
PS We only have so much time before the Mountain Dew promo ends and I need to figure out what to do with the points so I can give them to you to distribute.