This is a very interesting question, and one well worth considering for the light it sheds on the performing arts business--its politics and economics.
I played many, many piano rehearsals for Leinsdorf with the Boston Symphony. He was very kind to me and I feel grateful for having had the opportunity to know him and to work with him. I learned a lot.
Someone referred to Leinsdorf as "an insufferable know-it-all". That may be, but his deep knowledge of music is quite impressive. His three books are quite illuminating, especially The Composer's Advocate. And his RCA Prokofieff box is excellent!
I agree about the books. I also mostly agree about the RCA Prokofiev box -- my main disappointment with it is that it omitted his recordings of the Scythian Suite and the Symphony-Concerto (why, RCA?). I also wish he had completed the symphony cycle.
I'd be interested in a Leinsdorf complete RCA box (mostly Boston but there were some operas recorded elsewhere for RCA). I'm not sure how large it would be. He recorded complete Beethoven and Brahms cycles, some Mahler, some Prokofiev, and a lot of concertos and several operas so it might add up to a "big box". RCA could always bill it as the post-Munch (mostly) Boston box and toss in the handful of other post-Munch Boston recordings (Steinberg, Ozawa, ...) made before the orchestra switched to DG. A Leinsdorf Decca box might be interesting too, though I don't remember everything he recorded for them. I have that Walkure Dave mentioned, but I know he also did some Phase 4 recordings and possibly more.
I lived for a decade in Boston and, before that, while in the Navy, I went to Boston frequently. One of my first concerts there was the Requiem (Mozart's) for the recently deceased Munch, Leinsdorf conducting. I think that his conducting was simply stunning, on most occasions. He was the BEST EVER conductor of Prokofiev's music. His Beethoven had terrific drive and stature. His Varèse was revelatory, as was his Schoenberg. His Beethoven symphony cycle is utter magnificence. Leinsdorf was not a cypher as a human, either. Just read his recollections of his career, very well written, immensely amusing, etc. I love his Cleveland recordings, which are as good as any that that fine orchestra made in subsequent years. His "Tssca" for R.C.A. was the best conducted that I can think of off-hand and Leonard Warren's Scarpia makes even Gobbi sound like small change by comparison. Leinsdorf was one of the very, very great ones, in my opinion.
My first truly professional-level performance as a classical choral singer was Mahler 8 with the Los Angeles Phil and Master Chorale at the Hollywood Bowl. I sat in the back row of the huge chorus which was behind a huge orchestra . At the 9 am rehearsal, I gave a big yawn while the performers were taking their places, and Leinsdorf spotted me from his podium which seemed a mile away. He said something like "All right, let's all wake up now." I didn't yawn again until I got home. I don't remember much about the performance itself and that was the only one I had with him, but that moment stuck with me.
Grew up in Symphony Hall. Learned so much Repetoire from him, found many concerts to be thrilling , some not so. His first wife was a big RCA stockholder and it was the young junior senator, Lyndon B Johnson who helped Leinsdorf secure permanent residency in the US. He and Leinsdorf remained close friends till Johnsons’s passing. Leinsdorf told this in many interviews as well as his writings. Of course he never had the love affair with the BSO that Munch had and his relationship with Henry Cabot, the president of the BSO , was very strained. Still I liked the guy.
1980ish I saw Leinsdorf conduct the Minnesota Orchestra in Brahms 2nd Symphony. Memorable was the way he left a little volume in his pocket until the coda of the finale, just a wonderful effect.
I'm so glad you mentioned Leinsdorf's recording of Walküre--it's a stunning recording, urgent and compelling in all the right places. He benefits from Birgit Nilsson and Jon Vickers, of course, but he also contributes to their performances. Compare Vickers' Siegmund under Karajan, which is all syrup and melodrama.
He was always one of my favorite conductors. I heard him often at Tanglewood when I was a teen and immediately appreciated the clarity of his interpretations and the refinement of the playing he achieved. I much preferred the beautiful string sound he always found to the rather scrappy and occasionally crude sound of the New York Philhharmonic strings under Bernstein. When Leinsdorf conducted Mahler 5 on tour with the New York Phil (in Detroit), it was the best I had ever heard the band sound. And the performance was the closest to Bruno Walter's recording (my favorite, alongside Leinsdorf.) Of course, he Met performances were world-class in every way. When I met him at Tanglewood, he was kind and happy to answer my questions. (The circumstances were funny - I was listening to a rehearsal of the - dare I say - appalling Barenboim rehearsing Beethoven. I didn't realise that Leinsdorf was standing behind me tilll he said - rather disappointing isn't it? We stayed in touch via letters for years. Before the end of his life, we had planned to recorded Stravinsky's Persephone (with Candace Bergen as narrator) but his health precluded us making the project. Not that it matters as you rightly say, I love his Boston recordings. Brahms 2 ranks with the best, for example.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Hi Dave! I should have added I was 14 when I met Maestro - he spoke to me then as if I were an adult colleague! And one more: I had a friend who chose Harvard over Columbia way back then because she much preferred Leinsdorf/Boston the Bernstein/NY!
Leinsdorf really got the shaft during his Cleveland tenure. As you noted, he was drafted almost as soon as he was appointed in 1943. Other players within the orchestra were also drafted. Further, Rodziński had already poached some of the orchestra's best players and took them with him to New York that same year. After the war, Leinsdorf returned and made a few decent recordings with the orchestra before Szell was appointed.
Thanks for airing this out. I had a few interesting green room encounters with him while in college, when he was guesting in Cleveland during the Maazel-Dohnanyi transition. I learned a lot, even if some of his interpretations were a bit tightly wound.
I am so glad you gave a few minutes to Leinsdorf. I have so many of his Boston LPs that I appreciated a little context. You’ve prompted me to return to the notorious Lohengrin (don’t think I’d heard the story before, or the one about Abbado); most of Leinsdorf’s cast is new to me.
Very intereinteresting talk I didn't know anything about him, and the only performance of his I have is his Beethoven 9th which has always been a favourite of mine, I find it fascinating how he is so much swifter in the slow movement than most other performances, but it works and I find it a thrilling record
First Hearing! Oh, I loved that program! Jellinek also hosted “The Vocal Scene”…also fantastic. Hah, I had another record nut friend in high school years, and we did a parody recording of First Hearing, which we called “Worst Hearing”….perhaps you could have a panel discussion of your “CDs from Hell” with that subtitle! Ok, one more nostalgic wallow…..among my early LP “Bang for the buck” treasures, at age 10, was finding Leinsdorf’s Mozart Syms. 25-41 on a Westminster slip case edition for all of $10, which fit my peewee sized budget. It was in fake stereo, but hell, I didn’t care…..I got to know a ton of great music! Cheers, Dave.
Thanks for the memory of WQXR's First Hearing. I discovered the composer Ingolf Dahl through the opening theme of the show, which was his Music for Brass.
I was happy to hear George Jellinek mentioned. Once when listening to Dave my wife said (affectionately) "Is that George Jellinek, the mas Hungarian?" I considered it a compliment.
Thank you Dave for this and the other posts which are so informative. I remember the Leinsdorf Lohengrin recording, my father had it [vinyl, of course]- it was very exciting.Sandor Konya sang the role at the Met around the same time. I also remember First Hearing-{ with Lloyd Moss, I think, here in Baltimore we have a similar and very good show on our Classical Music station WBJC called "Face the Music"}. My parents loved George Jellinek- he was so gracious and personified "Old World Charm" and recorded many of his shows, "The Vocal Scene"; his book History Through the Opera Glass is wonderful. I hope that RCA might bring back some of the Leinsdorf recordings. The Salome recording is another stand out, hampered perhaps by the fact that Caballe [glorious singing] was an unusual choice? I love that recording, but as I recall the critics did not. Thanks again.
That Salome got a rave review in High Fidelity. By David Hamilton as I recall. The Lohengrin was cursed, first and foremost because Leontyne Price canceled doing Elsa. Lucine Amara simply did not sell records. Rita Gorr had the flu and was not in top vocal shape. There were other problems like William Dooley's undersized Telramund. It's amazing how effective the performance can be, the Boston Symphony is a real plus. (It was my first Lihengrin )But even Leinsdorf soured on the whole project.
I was an usher in Symphony Hall during Leinsdorf's '66-'67 season with the BSO. As you say, his programs looked great on paper, but overall they were pretty lackluster in concert. I did have the chance to speak with him a couple of times backstage and found him to be a very charming and interesting fellow. The orchestra wanted William Steinberg to succeed Munch, but RCA...well, you know.
Nice video Dave. Have a few Leinsdorf recordings in my collection. Leinsdorf once said that the biggest cut in all of classical music was Wagner's Prelude and Liebestod from Tristan and Isolde. The Maestro also had the unpleasant duty of telling his concert audience of November 22, 1963 about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. I know you're just a kid, Dave for I go back with FIRST HEARING being hosted by LLOYD MOSS. yuk yuk C ya, Dave
What I remember most is Leinsdorf on cassette, but sound was glorious, Turandot, Brigit and Niccolai-- beautifully paced, tells the story, more than big screen Met
I guess you're right with your analysis. In Vienna, Leinsdorf was greeted with great warmth, out of bad conscience, may be. I remember fine performances In Vienna's State Opera of "Tristan" and "Elektra" - and he conducted performances of "Palestrina", which showed the work better than normally. The most interesting thing he did was Kreneks "Karl V". Leinsdorf managed that the 12-tone-music sounded full of color and tunes, and I remember that Krenek said in a talk with students (I was one of them) that this was the conductor, whom he always wished for this work. Concerning the concerts: I remember that he conducted the Vienna Philharmonic in Schoenbergs 1st Chamber Symphony - but nothing else is in my memory. I think, he had a very good ear and rehearsed precisely, but without adding something of a personality.
'Road company Toscanini' was one description. I know many of his records and find them all satisfying, to varying degrees. Other conductors had more personality, and he tended to suffer from the comparison with the titans he shared a timeline with. But he could deliver the goods in the studio and was a very safe pair of hands: unglamorous virtues, but they served him well.
In the mid 60s I first learned Mahler 6 from the Leinsdorf BSO recording. As I remember, the critical edition was new and the slow mvmt was 3rd. I don’t think it's ever been on CD and I don't know how it would hold up today. But the third mvmt is one of my favorite Mahler mvmts.
Leinsdorf conducted the premiere of David Del Tredici’s huge and eccentric “Final Alice” in 1977, and also some subsequent performances. But years later I remember reading Leinsdorf’s royal takedown of the piece, saying that it was worthlessly repetitive, or something like that.
On what happened to be my birthday, long ago, Erich Leinsdorff conducted the Mahler 8 at the Hollywood Bowl. Using somewhat reduced forces, he turned in an incredibly powerful performance. At the time, I was just learning the piece. If I could hear that performance again, I might be disappointed. But in memory...it was AMAZING. Many say that he was much better live than in the studio. That was my experience!
Leinsdorf's Walkure, for me, is the best all round recording of a Wagner opera there is. Uniquely, it has great sound, great orchestral playing, wonderful singers in every single role, great balance between voice and orchestra. Its electric! Can you think of another that perfect? I can't. Other recordings have greater bits, for sure, but there's always something that isnt perfect. For example, Solti's ring, for me, is too stately, Bohm's has imperfect sound, Keilberth's has occasional intonation issues in the winds and brass, and so on. Leinsdorf's Walkure is the tops! Eternal kudos to Erich Leinsdorf for pulling off the only perfect Wagner recording.
If Price had sung Elsa and Gorr was still the Ortrud she had been 3-5 years earlier, L's Lohengrin might have rivaled the Walküre. And if they had cast a real Telramund. But Konya has always been the best Lohengrin. Yeah, I know. What if what if.
@@markgifford6291Ooh, a London rather than a Vienna Ring. I wonder how they'd cast it? What if he'd recorded a Ring in New York when he took over for Bodansky in the late '30s and had Flagstad, Melchior, Thorborg, Schorr and Kipnis in his casts? But in Living Stereo, of course!
Interesting point about the generation of conductors known for their irascibility or prickliness. As you say, there was Szell, Toscanini, Leinsdorf, plus the 'screaming skull' Solti, and Reiner had the worst reputation of all - film of him conducting is positively scary to watch, as his all-seeing gaze moves from one terrified desk to another. Yet the best of them achieved spectacular results precisely because they were so intolerant of mediocrity. So I'd be fascinated to hear you talk about the 'fear factor' in orchestras. When is it productive and when is it counter-productive? Could anyone today get away with such theatrical tantrums or nasty put-downs?
The ultimate tyrant as a conductor was allegedly Gustav Mahler, born in the same decade as Toscanini. Mahler lived only to 1911, and in those days the orchestral musicans were gross amateurs by modern standards. Conservatories ahave since standardized musical performance about as completely as have college bands. There is much less tolerance for for individuality in orchestral play now than there used to be. Mahler was infamous for execrating the level of performance of his time. Was that appropriate? The orchestral players of his time would now be driving trucks, perhaps listening to classical music while driving on freeways in Illinois. For the listener the benefit is that one can hear good orchestral play from a small-city orchestra. The bad side is that there is no longer the 'special' quality that distinguishes most orchestras.
Leinsdorf's BSO recordings of Prokofiev are extraordinary, as unlikely as that is, given his central European background. So is his recording of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, which is iconic as it the engineering seems to capture the unique experience of hearing that piece in Symphony Hall, where it was first performed. As a teenager, many of my first live performances of standard repertoire were with Leinsdorf and the BSO. They seemed exciting at the time, but now they seem rigid and overdriven. His Mahler symphony recordings (1,3,5 and 6) were among the first made in the USA of those symphonies, and they now sound timid and even unidiomatic. And in the field of opera, his recording of Madama Butterfly with Leontyne Price and Richard Tucker has never been equalled; Leinsdorf's contribution is highlighting the tremendous craft of Puccini's score.
I agree, he was so often at his best in contemporary music (and R. Strauss was a contemporary for him.) RCA missed a good bet when they could have taken the fillers (the Side 4s in the vinyl days) of his Mahler 5 and 6, devoted to Alban Berg and issued them as a single disc. They're far more interesting than the Mahler symphony performances they companioned.
I've read some terrible reviews of Leinsdorf over the years and often wondered why he seemed to get no love. The thing with his Boston recordings from the 60's for me is that they sound so good with a beautiful acoustic and a magnificent orchestra, especially the strings. Brahms Symphony No.2, Mozart 36 and 39, Schumann 4, Mahler 5 have all given me much enjoyment.
Perhaps because there are ever fewer people old enough to remember or care much about earlier generations of conductors. Dudamel has a good press agent and nicely graying hair, a proven combination that worked great for Rattle.
Thanks for this very reasoned presentation. Comments about Leinsdorf as an accompanist/conductor remind me of his recording with André Watts of the Liszt Totentanz and the Franck Variations Symphoniques... and the fact that Watts, sadly, has just died. There is a box of his SONY recordings. Would it merit a video from you? I can't find information that you have discussed it. Also, I second the idea of a video about conductors and 'the fear factor'...
Your post is the first I've read of the death of Andre Watts. I may be old, but I'm a news junkie of sorts, and I didn't see a single reference made concerning the death of this fine musician in any of the larger news publications. My, how times have changed that someone who brought so much joy and someone of such great musical talent can die forgotten.
I absolutely agree with your assessment. 1.) Who could have ever imagined turning on the TV (PBS, that is) in the late 60's and seeing LIVE concert performances of the Mahler 3rd, the 6th, Schuller's "7 Studies on Paul Klee", etc?! Leinsdorf's BSO programs and recordings were continually fascinating (I like his Prokofiev 3rd Sym for the sound and power; it's the kind of work, tho, that can survive with a "straight" reading). But you nailed it when you said that, as a real-life person TALKING about music, Leinsdorf was fascinating (his books, too); but his performances were a totally different story. 2.) Yes, he did better in opera. His 1966 Verdi "Un Ballo" is FABULOUS...something about Verdi's still-tradition-bound formal structure (arias, ensembles, accompanied recit) MATCHED UP beautifully with Leinsdorf's sense of order and control, but still allowed the singers maximum range of expression. On the other hand, the more free-flowing, less formal PUCCINI fared much less well under Leinsdorf; it's just OK, with that early 70's "Tabarro" being particularly lifeless. 3.) Near the end of his career, he conducted a Copland 3rd Sym with Chicago, which was broadcast live on WFMT. I was home listening and recording, but was stunned to hear the big build-up to the end actually FALL APART in the performance! They pulled it back together, of course. Some time later, I spoke with one of the (ringer) percussionists who had played that concert, who said "Yeah, we were all laughing to ourselves when that happened, because Leinsdorf was such a nasty jerk towards us in rehearsals; we felt he deserved what happened, because it was HIS fault." Part of the legacy, I guess. LR
I could not agree more with your comment about his Prokofiev 3rd Symphony. I've not heard a performance that comes close to Leinsdorf's. I love the way he does the return of the march in the first movement. So many conductors are too fast at this big moment; Leinsdorf is perfect, in my opinion. I don't have the score, but I have seen it in the past and my memory is that Leinsdorf does exactly what Prokofiev requested.
@@donaldallen1771 I also really like Leinsdorf in that particular section. HOWEVER..if you want to hear the most awesome, brutal, crude, nightmarish Proko 3rd...with the same March passage equally crushing in its effect, you MUST hear the old Rozhdestvensky recording from 1961, with the USSR State Symphony Orch. It was released on the Artia label here, but has never been released on CD (and apparently won't be, due to a damaged master tape). Note: this is NOT Rozhdestventsky's later recording of Proko 3, which was part of his Melodia/EMI cycle of the late 60's; that version is merely adequate. It's the earlier 1961 version that's the killer (a live performance, apparently recorded along with the studio recording, was released on the "Revelation" label in 1996. It's very good, but the balances are way off). BTW..there is NO indication in the score for the march to be at a faster tempo; like you, I think it ruins the effect of the passage. LR
@@paxpaxart4740 That's completely inaccurate. As I said above, everyone in the orchestra knew ERICH was responsible for the screw-up, not the players. They did their professional best to pull things back together, to avoid a total break-down. But they felt that, on some level, justice had been served, since Leinsdorf had treated them like crap in rehearsal. That's just human nature. LR
@@paxpaxart4740 Then there's the story (true?) about the CSO principal wind player who refused to turn off his portable TV during an afternoon rehearsal at Ravinia (I think he was watching the Cubs game); the infuriated conductor (Kurt Mazur, I believe ), never returned to the orchestra. At least that's the way I heard it.
Leinsdorf was an early exposure for me in my neophyte days of getting to know classical, as the radio station back in the '70s played him a lot more than they do now. I instantly had a positive opinion of him that made me baffled when I started reading review magazines where everyone said he sucked. When I sampled more of his output I realized his inconsistency of quality, but at the same time didn't feel he deserved to be so easily written off. I'm glad you did this talk to lend a more balanced perspective.
Dave, I entirely agree with you in your discussion of Erich Leinsdorf. As a matter of fact I remember watching him in Boston after the fabulous and beloved Charles Munch. I SIMULTANEOUSLY admired Erich's precision and immaculate preparation, style and perfectly controlled gestures. AND I felt his tightness. Mostly dry and starched performances. Joyless! I felt he never let go in himself and never allowed much freedom to the orchestra. I felt for him, but for me he almost never brought forth an inspired performance from the orchestra. After the Munch years (and Monteux's guest appearances) it must have been a letdown for the orchestra to make music with him. Oddly, Dave, some years after he left Boston, I remember when he returned as a guest conductor and did a FABULOUS Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. He really let his hair down that night, and he received a tremendous applause. Maybe he felt intimidated after coming in after Munch. Munch was such an ecstatic conductor. Every concert of his was a new adventure. Finally,: I thought Leinsdorf did some wonderful Richard Strauss performances. Like Ein Heldenleben and some incidental music from Strauss' operas. Have a great day, Dave! Thank you!
The Rubenstein/Leinsdorf Beethoven piano concerto cycle is pretty good. Leinsdorf's sympathetic accompaniment doesn't overwhelm Rubinstein's delicate touch on the piano. Not for everyone but I find Rubinstein's artistry practically always irresistible.
How right you are! For me, re. Leinsdorf and Rubinstein, their recording of the Tchaikovsky First P:iano Concerto is sublime, just right in emotional temperature, tempi, and all of the rest. Rubinstein, whether with Wallenstein or (better) with Leinsdorf, was an exceptionally fine Beethoven player.
Generally speaking, I agree with your assessment of Leinsdorf - much better at opera than in the symphonic repertory. I used to look forward to and listen to WQXR's "First Hearing" every week. My recollection, however, is that it was hosted by Lloyd Moss, not George Jellinek. Jellinek's program was called "The Vocal Scene," which was also quite good.
I was on the show, and we did it with George. I think Lloyd did it too, earlier (or maybe George produced and Lloyd hosted). My interactions were all with George.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I always loved "First hearing" back in the day when it was also on KXTR in Kansas City. Is there, by chance, a vault of recordings of that show somewhere?
Would you regard Leinsdorf as a Kapellmeister? That appellation sometimes gets applied to Karl Böhm, another conductor who is regarded as a conductor whose best work was in opera.
There are many conductors, and performers in general who are, as you put it, good but not great. Some continue to be lauded and some don't. I suppose ultimately it depends on sales.
Dave, Leinsdorf made recordings with the Boston Symphony of Prokofiev Symphonies 2,3,5 & 6 for RCA. They also made recordings of some Prokofiev violin and piano concertos. Were they any good?
I started Beethoven symphonies with Leinsdorf and found them all `matter of fact`. It was only when I got into KIeiber/Szell and Wand when they all took off.
A close friend of mine now retired after decades in the classical radio biz says that Leinsdorf live was dramatically better than Leinsdorf in the studio. He seemed to think that recordings were statements of technical perfection rather than theatrical events. If so, the best part of his career is lost to us.
Enjoyed this video very much. Appreciate your comments and your honesty. That's why I follow you. Thanks for mentioning the Walkure, Salome and Die Tote Stadt. All splendid recordings. I may be the only one who does, but I enjoy his Cosi Fan Tutte as well. I saw him a number of times at the Met and he led some exciting performances. A big orchestral box? I don't think so.
I pretty much agree entirely with Dave's assessment. For anyone who may be interested in the exceptions-Stravinsky's Agon-played with precision and energy-is practically impossible to find, but possibly the best recorded version of that piece. And Beethoven's Fourth, which is rather easy to find, is also excellent.
I love your trenchant opinions, Dave. Keep it up. For years, when I was a student and didn't have any money, the only opera recording I owned was Verdi's Macbeth conducted by Erich and with Leonard Warren (I think) as the Thane and Leonie Rysanek, who was marvelous, as his wife. It was on tape and it wore out eventually. I thought about him the other day when listening to Trovatore from the Royal Opera House in London. I managed about an act and a half before turning it off. What was missing was the power and tautness that EL brought to the inner rhythm and which Pappano (and a surprising number of other conductors) failed to deliver. Not interpretative brilliance, perhaps, but not all music needs it. Rather it is often understanding what the music needs that counts. Perhaps there was something about the need to control many things at once that bought out the best of him with opera.
Talking of opera recordings - the thing I hated, being someone who liked to see a cohesive interpretation - is that almost no recording of opera I've done is recorded in order. For me that really matters. We'd get to the end of the week, and get a thank you, we're all done, but as players we had been jumping around playing everything in bits, out of order from a purely practical perspective, booking players in a Farewell symphony kind of way. Sure, the conductor knew what went where, but the assumption that the players don't need to be involved in the story telling is a little unambitious.
...and you're right, thinking about it... name ANY Leinsdorf (orchestral music) recording and ask: "Is this the best recording of [this]?" and I can't think of a single one where that would come up as a possibility. But, alas, many wonderful recordings as a concerto accompanist. I've always liked him.
I wonder how things would have turned out had Steinberg gotten the BSO instead of Leinsdorf. Based on his later work with the BSO maybe we would have gotten more great recordings and performances with a healthy Steinberg.
I remember Steinberg's first BSO concert that opened with Beethoven's Overture Consercration of the House (as if Symphony Hall needs to be consecrated). The fellow who accompanied me, who was not a Leinsdorf lover, referred to the performance as 'constipation in the house.' Well. Listening to airchecks reveals that this was a harsh assessment, but after Leinsdorf's disciplined approach, one could tell that Steinberg, let us say, was a variable conductor.
In the italian Opera repertoire, everyone talks about the Turandot, but I believe Leinsdorf's most remarkable italian opera recording is his Tosca, with Milanov, Bjoerling and Warren!
Warren as Scarpia is a monumentally great and chilling interpretation of that role, right up there with George London. Both surpass Gobbi, whose voice is just too small for the part and which lacks the fearsome resonance of Warren, London, and Taddei.
I wonder if some of his recordings might be judged a bit more favorably when they get a proper remastering. Dynagroove made his American pressings sound wooly. And a lot of his cds were remastered less than ideally for RCA budget issues. Sometimes, it didn’t even sound like they were recorded in Boston Symphony Hall, one of the more sonically recognizable on disc. I felt that his Mahler 5 and 6 sounded a lot better on European pressings. That Bartok Concerto for Orchestra came out in the High Performance series…and I thought it was great, for instance. Of course…that Mahler 1 and 3 were reissued too, and they’re nothing special. But I still wonder if there’s some other gems lurking.
@@paxpaxart4740 I still find some of those bargain issues a little rough…but I agree with you regarding his 9th. (Another High Performance winner.) I found that Urania Mahler 5 and 6 last night, after another commenter mentioned it. I’d have to A/B it, but the 5th seemed better than the cd. Maybe these were remastered again.
A great talk. Thank you. Based on what I've heard from his Boston years where he is not accompanying, I agree that the output is generally not memorable, although to be fair not much has ever been released. But, as you say, there are exceptions, one of which is a performance of Strauss' Ein Heldenleben. I believe this was only ever made available as a CD in Japan and luckily I obtained a copy. Perhaps, as far as the orchestral repertoire is concerned, EL was another conductor who really only came alive in certain works.
His BSO Mahler recordings were very good, even if Bernstein always got the good notices. As far as RCA's profitability, don't forget Fiedler and the Pops. Made up for a lot of financial shortcomings elsewhere.
I've never seen it explained exactly (or even approximately) how Melodiya became a privately owned enterprise. Was there an auction? Or did a bunch of ex Commissars and KGB agents magically obtain ownership? Also it was said that Melodiya was simultaneoously licensing the same material to different labels, like RCA/BMG and Russia Revolution (I have the entire set acquired painfully over many years).
I'm just young enough I guess (there's something I haven't said in a long time), that Leinsdorf was completely not on my radar, other than from time to time people would recommend his Prokofiev records.
I imagine an alternate universe where Reiner didn't get sick, and Leinsdorf didn't have to be flown in to cover for Brahms 2 with Richter. It's still great, nostalgic, it was my first purchase on vinyl.
Well, Reiner had already done the Brahms PC2 in 1958 with Gilels, and in '61 he recorded it again with Van Cliburn. Frankly, I don't care for ether of them. But the Leinsdorf/Richter is a kind of miraculous one-off. Leinsdorf had Reiner's crack orchestra in front of him, and pretty much went where Richter led him - or at least had the sense not to get in the way.
Wasn't Leontyne Price meant to be Leinsdorf's Elsa in that calamitous Lohengrin? I recall reading that she was. Why did she drop out (to be replaced by an unknown singer)? Shocked to hear the sales figures for the Abbado Boris!
Hello, Price was sick and had to cancel that Lohengrin which actually is a wonderful recording and performance when re evaluated today. Price was not replaced by an "unknown singer" she was replaced by a star soprano, Lucine Amara who is Nedda on the EMI Pagliacci with Corelli and Musetta on the Beecham EMI Boheme and Ormandy Sony Verdi Requiem (Soprano Soloist). Lucine Amara made her Metropolitan Opera Debut in 1950 and sang there for an uninterrupted 41 seasons singing 882 performances of 56 roles and about 30-40 LEADING Soprano roles from Mozart to Verdi to Wagner and Strauss and Britten and everything in-between. After her debut at in 1950 Lucine Amara continued at the Metropolitan Opera singing opening nights and new productions over the course of 41 seasons until 1991, singing 56 roles in 882 appearances, nearly 60 of which were broadcast on radio and television. Appearing regularly as Micaëla in Carmen, Cio-Cio-San in Madama Butterfly, and Tatiana in Eugene Onegin, Antonia in Les contes d'Hoffmann, Donna Elvira in Don Giovanni, Nedda in Pagliacci, Mimi in La bohème, her repertoire also included Leonora in Il trovatore and Aida, Manon Lescaut, Alice Ford, Countess in Nozze, Liu in Turandot and Pamina in Flute.
@@67Parsifal Ah. Great. Thanks for listening. Listen again to that Lohengrin it's really exciting compared to the poor Wagner performances of the present generation most of the time. Thanks.
BTW-- my comments below, in total agreement with our host on Leinsdorf's effectiveness as a conductor, are applicable...almost word-for-word... to my opinion of ANOTHER very famous, influential conductor in America during the same period. But that's for another discussion.. LR
I wish the full audio of Leinsdorf’s program with the Boston Symphony being interrupted by the assassination of Kennedy were still available. He made some very awkward and uncharismatic remarks, and after the audience gasps subsided, had the orchestra play the funeral march from the Eroica. Now that was one occasion where he definitely got personality out of a performance.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll never forget the first time I took one of those records out of the sleeve. It was so thin it flopped down in my hand! I couldn't believe it. I thought it was defective and I was going to take it back but a friend of mine told me that all the new ones were like that. I guess you could say those were the first "floppy discs."
One should not confuse the two disastrous developments in RCA’s recording and marketing divisions. Dynagroove was introduced in 1963, early in Leinsdorf’s tenure with Boston, and it allegedly improved the dynamic range and frequency response of records, especially when played over non-audiophile systems. RCA tinkered with it over the next seven years, such that one never knew what to expect in a Dynagroove recording. Some were just plain awful (Leinsdorf’s Bruckner 4, Beethoven 5, Tchaikovsky violin concerto, and worst of all, Dvorak 6); some were excellent (Stravinsky Firebird Suite and Agon, Mahler 1 and 5, Wagner Lohengrin); most were just mediocre and frustratingly flat and colorless. Dynaflex was introduced in the early 70s, not surprisingly during the first oil supply crisis. Even though RCA touted it as an improvement in pressing quality, impervious to warps and with less groove noise, the results were floppy, bumpy, and often seriously warped records.
The only RCA recording he made later on that I can recall is the 1975 Die Tote Stadt by Korngold with the Munich Radio Orchestra. After leaving Boston, he made some recordings for Decca/London with the London Symphony and others. He also made a few recordings with the Los Angeles Phiharmonic during the 1980s. I agree with the general consensus: Leinsdorf was generally a good, reliable, but not great conductor. I find his operatic recordings much more enjoyable and interesting than most of his symphonic stuff. His RCA recordings of Tosca (Milanov, Bjorling, Warren), Barber of Seville (Peters, Valetti, Merrill), Turandot, (Nilsson, Bjorling, Tebaldi), Madama Butterfly (2 versions, with Moffo and Price, respectively), Ballo in Maschera (Price, Bergonzi) and several others are among my favorites of those operas. He also recorded a fine Verdi Requiem that is, liked many of his recordings, overlooked today.
I take no issue with what I am called [overly intellectual], especially by somebody who has been watching every performance. There are three worlds of music-the composer's, the performer's and the critic's. I believe in friction, for without friction there can be no progress. - Erich Leinsdorf
“The press is still the most prominent mouthpiece of the public. Music life in the community is (or should be) led by music critics who, in turn, try to ascertain in what direction the public is going. Somewhere in the subtle interrelation between the public and its verbalization by critics, our standards are established, artists are ‘made,’ and the historic record of successes and failures is prepared.” - Erich Leinsdorf
I wonder if it was with Leinsdorf when RCA used the sales pitch for the BSO “the aristocrat of the orchestras”. I lived in Boston for 3 years in the early 90,s ( Ozawa,s last years) and to me they sound uninteresting more than aristocratic.
I agree 100% with Dave. Sadly Leinsdorf was far too literal to win the heart of the Classical music lover public. Despite remarkable recordings here and there Leinsdorf to me was a perfect musical traditionalist with little personality.
Why do you say classical music is a money loser business? How come it lasted so long? At least I guess it was good business up until jazz and rock came along. Please Dave elaborate on that some time. Thanks
Certainly I'm no David, but I'll venture a guess. I think Classical Music was once somewhat profitable, at least it didn't lose tons of money and there was plenty of it available. Why? I believe it was because Music Appreciation was taught, and in the public schools I attended, compulsory. Somehow over the last 40 or more years, Music Appreciation and Industrial Arts, or "Shop" lost its societal relevance. You have to grow an audience for music, and our public schools seem to have different priorities now. Just ask some of the old geezers on this site where they were first exposed to Classical Music, and they'll tell you, in the home, or in school. It's just not a "thing" today I'm afraid. Jazz and Rock didn't kill Classical, lack of interest did, or there'd be more of it, and a more thriving and hopefully profitable recording industry that would not just record, but vigorously market their product.
So like the list of choral conductors who aren’t so interesting outside or choral music, seems like Leinsdorf is in his own classification of fantastic in opera but totally respectable and adequate in symphonic repertoire.
Nothing has changed in the 25 years since Leinsdorf’s death; your assessment chimes with the obituaries back then. On another note, Karajan’s Lohengrin was also wildly expensive and over budget. Perhaps it has something to do with the opera.
I played many, many piano rehearsals for Leinsdorf with the Boston Symphony. He was very kind to me and I feel grateful for having had the opportunity to know him and to work with him. I learned a lot.
Someone referred to Leinsdorf as "an insufferable know-it-all". That may be, but his deep knowledge of music is quite impressive. His three books are quite illuminating, especially The Composer's Advocate. And his RCA Prokofieff box is excellent!
I agree about the books. I also mostly agree about the RCA Prokofiev box -- my main disappointment with it is that it omitted his recordings of the Scythian Suite and the Symphony-Concerto (why, RCA?). I also wish he had completed the symphony cycle.
@@richardsandmeyer4431 His Scythian Suite is one of the best.
Only as far as Prokofiev would I agree with you. No one got so much out of the music.
Leinsdorf deserved a Box from RCA. Wouldn’t be that large, but it would be good. The Beethoven cycle is really pretty good.
I'd be interested in a Leinsdorf complete RCA box (mostly Boston but there were some operas recorded elsewhere for RCA). I'm not sure how large it would be. He recorded complete Beethoven and Brahms cycles, some Mahler, some Prokofiev, and a lot of concertos and several operas so it might add up to a "big box". RCA could always bill it as the post-Munch (mostly) Boston box and toss in the handful of other post-Munch Boston recordings (Steinberg, Ozawa, ...) made before the orchestra switched to DG.
A Leinsdorf Decca box might be interesting too, though I don't remember everything he recorded for them. I have that Walkure Dave mentioned, but I know he also did some Phase 4 recordings and possibly more.
@@richardsandmeyer4431 Very true
I lived for a decade in Boston and, before that, while in the Navy, I went to Boston frequently. One of my first concerts there was the Requiem (Mozart's) for the recently deceased Munch, Leinsdorf conducting. I think that his conducting was simply stunning, on most occasions. He was the BEST EVER conductor of Prokofiev's music. His Beethoven had terrific drive and stature. His Varèse was revelatory, as was his Schoenberg. His Beethoven symphony cycle is utter magnificence. Leinsdorf was not a cypher as a human, either. Just read his recollections of his career, very well written, immensely amusing, etc. I love his Cleveland recordings, which are as good as any that that fine orchestra made in subsequent years. His "Tssca" for R.C.A. was the best conducted that I can think of off-hand and Leonard Warren's Scarpia makes even Gobbi sound like small change by comparison. Leinsdorf was one of the very, very great ones, in my opinion.
Um, not. Nice try, though.
My first truly professional-level performance as a classical choral singer was Mahler 8 with the Los Angeles Phil and Master Chorale at the Hollywood Bowl. I sat in the back row of the huge chorus which was behind a huge orchestra . At the 9 am rehearsal, I gave a big yawn while the performers were taking their places, and Leinsdorf spotted me from his podium which seemed a mile away. He said something like "All right, let's all wake up now." I didn't yawn again until I got home. I don't remember much about the performance itself and that was the only one I had with him, but that moment stuck with me.
Leinsdorf's recording of Strauss's Salome is probably my favorite recording of that remarkable work. It's just stunning in every way.
Some of those George Jellinek shows are still online at the WQXR archives, and they're fun to listen to. I wish they had more.
Grew up in Symphony Hall. Learned so much Repetoire from him, found many concerts to be thrilling , some not so. His first wife was a big RCA stockholder and it was the young junior senator, Lyndon B Johnson who helped Leinsdorf secure permanent residency in the US. He and Leinsdorf remained close friends till Johnsons’s passing. Leinsdorf told this in many interviews as well as his writings. Of course he never had the love affair with the BSO that Munch had and his relationship with Henry Cabot, the president of the BSO , was very strained. Still I liked the guy.
One of Leinsdorf's books includes the story of the making of that Lohengrin. Very revealing.
1980ish I saw Leinsdorf conduct the Minnesota Orchestra in Brahms 2nd Symphony. Memorable was the way he left a little volume in his pocket until the coda of the finale, just a wonderful effect.
His 'Korngold Die Totte Stadt' was very fine i think. I havent heard any better than this. Fantadtic singers too, Neblet and Prey!
I'm so glad you mentioned Leinsdorf's recording of Walküre--it's a stunning recording, urgent and compelling in all the right places. He benefits from Birgit Nilsson and Jon Vickers, of course, but he also contributes to their performances. Compare Vickers' Siegmund under Karajan, which is all syrup and melodrama.
He was always one of my favorite conductors. I heard him often at Tanglewood when I was a teen and immediately appreciated the clarity of his interpretations and the refinement of the playing he achieved. I much preferred the beautiful string sound he always found to the rather scrappy and occasionally crude sound of the New York Philhharmonic strings under Bernstein.
When Leinsdorf conducted Mahler 5 on tour with the New York Phil (in Detroit), it was the best I had ever heard the band sound. And the performance was the closest to Bruno Walter's recording (my favorite, alongside Leinsdorf.) Of course, he Met performances were world-class in every way.
When I met him at Tanglewood, he was kind and happy to answer my questions. (The circumstances were funny - I was listening to a rehearsal of the - dare I say - appalling Barenboim rehearsing Beethoven. I didn't realise that Leinsdorf was standing behind me tilll he said - rather disappointing isn't it? We stayed in touch via letters for years. Before the end of his life, we had planned to recorded Stravinsky's Persephone (with Candace Bergen as narrator) but his health precluded us making the project.
Not that it matters as you rightly say, I love his Boston recordings. Brahms 2 ranks with the best, for example.
Hello Michael. Good to hear from you. Thanks for sharing this.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Hi Dave! I should have added I was 14 when I met Maestro - he spoke to me then as if I were an adult colleague! And one more: I had a friend who chose Harvard over Columbia way back then because she much preferred Leinsdorf/Boston the Bernstein/NY!
Leinsdorf really got the shaft during his Cleveland tenure. As you noted, he was drafted almost as soon as he was appointed in 1943. Other players within the orchestra were also drafted. Further, Rodziński had already poached some of the orchestra's best players and took them with him to New York that same year. After the war, Leinsdorf returned and made a few decent recordings with the orchestra before Szell was appointed.
IMO, the Leinsdorf Beethoven 9th is one of the best and the vocal quartet included a very young Placido Domingo at the top of his career.
Thanks for airing this out. I had a few interesting green room encounters with him while in college, when he was guesting in Cleveland during the Maazel-Dohnanyi transition. I learned a lot, even if some of his interpretations were a bit tightly wound.
I am so glad you gave a few minutes to Leinsdorf. I have so many of his Boston LPs that I appreciated a little context. You’ve prompted me to return to the notorious Lohengrin (don’t think I’d heard the story before, or the one about Abbado); most of Leinsdorf’s cast is new to me.
Very intereinteresting talk I didn't know anything about him, and the only performance of his I have is his Beethoven 9th which has always been a favourite of mine, I find it fascinating how he is so much swifter in the slow movement than most other performances, but it works and I find it a thrilling record
First Hearing! Oh, I loved that program! Jellinek also hosted “The Vocal Scene”…also fantastic. Hah, I had another record nut friend in high school years, and we did a parody recording of First Hearing, which we called “Worst Hearing”….perhaps you could have a panel discussion of your “CDs from Hell” with that subtitle! Ok, one more nostalgic wallow…..among my early LP “Bang for the buck” treasures, at age 10, was finding Leinsdorf’s Mozart Syms. 25-41 on a Westminster slip case edition for all of $10, which fit my peewee sized budget. It was in fake stereo, but hell, I didn’t care…..I got to know a ton of great music! Cheers, Dave.
Thanks for the memory of WQXR's First Hearing. I discovered the composer Ingolf Dahl through the opening theme of the show, which was his Music for Brass.
YEAH, ME TOO !!!! What a snappy piece of music.
I was happy to hear George Jellinek mentioned. Once when listening to Dave my wife said (affectionately) "Is that George Jellinek, the mas Hungarian?" I considered it a compliment.
Thank you Dave for this and the other posts which are so informative. I remember the Leinsdorf Lohengrin recording, my father had it [vinyl, of course]- it was very exciting.Sandor Konya sang the role at the Met around the same time. I also remember First Hearing-{ with Lloyd Moss, I think, here in Baltimore we have a similar and very good show on our Classical Music station WBJC called "Face the Music"}. My parents loved George Jellinek- he was so gracious and personified "Old World Charm" and recorded many of his shows, "The Vocal Scene"; his book History Through the Opera Glass is wonderful. I hope that RCA might bring back some of the Leinsdorf recordings. The Salome recording is another stand out, hampered perhaps by the fact that Caballe [glorious singing] was an unusual choice? I love that recording, but as I recall the critics did not. Thanks again.
That Salome got a rave review in High Fidelity. By David Hamilton as I recall. The Lohengrin was cursed, first and foremost because Leontyne Price canceled doing Elsa. Lucine Amara simply did not sell records. Rita Gorr had the flu and was not in top vocal shape. There were other problems like William Dooley's undersized Telramund. It's amazing how effective the performance can be, the Boston Symphony is a real plus. (It was my first Lihengrin )But even Leinsdorf soured on the whole project.
I was an usher in Symphony Hall during Leinsdorf's '66-'67 season with the BSO. As you say, his programs looked great on paper, but overall they were pretty lackluster in concert. I did have the chance to speak with him a couple of times backstage and found him to be a very charming and interesting fellow. The orchestra wanted William Steinberg to succeed Munch, but RCA...well, you know.
Nice video Dave. Have a few Leinsdorf recordings in my collection. Leinsdorf once said that the biggest cut in all of classical music was Wagner's Prelude and Liebestod from Tristan and Isolde. The Maestro also had the unpleasant duty of telling his concert audience of November 22, 1963 about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. I know you're just a kid, Dave for I go back with FIRST HEARING being hosted by LLOYD MOSS. yuk yuk C ya, Dave
What I remember most is Leinsdorf on cassette, but sound was glorious, Turandot, Brigit and Niccolai-- beautifully paced, tells the story, more than big screen Met
I guess you're right with your analysis. In Vienna, Leinsdorf was greeted with great warmth, out of bad conscience, may be. I remember fine performances In Vienna's State Opera of "Tristan" and "Elektra" - and he conducted performances of "Palestrina", which showed the work better than normally. The most interesting thing he did was Kreneks "Karl V". Leinsdorf managed that the 12-tone-music sounded full of color and tunes, and I remember that Krenek said in a talk with students (I was one of them) that this was the conductor, whom he always wished for this work.
Concerning the concerts: I remember that he conducted the Vienna Philharmonic in Schoenbergs 1st Chamber Symphony - but nothing else is in my memory. I think, he had a very good ear and rehearsed precisely, but without adding something of a personality.
'Road company Toscanini' was one description. I know many of his records and find them all satisfying, to varying degrees. Other conductors had more personality, and he tended to suffer from the comparison with the titans he shared a timeline with. But he could deliver the goods in the studio and was a very safe pair of hands: unglamorous virtues, but they served him well.
In the mid 60s I first learned Mahler 6 from the Leinsdorf BSO recording. As I remember, the critical edition was new and the slow mvmt was 3rd. I don’t think it's ever been on CD and I don't know how it would hold up today. But the third mvmt is one of my favorite Mahler mvmts.
The Mahler 6th has been released on CD together whith Mahler's 5th on Urania this year.
Leinsdorf conducted the premiere of David Del Tredici’s huge and eccentric “Final Alice” in 1977, and also some subsequent performances. But years later I remember reading Leinsdorf’s royal takedown of the piece, saying that it was worthlessly repetitive, or something like that.
On what happened to be my birthday, long ago, Erich Leinsdorff conducted the Mahler 8 at the Hollywood Bowl. Using somewhat reduced forces, he turned in an incredibly powerful performance. At the time, I was just learning the piece. If I could hear that performance again, I might be disappointed. But in memory...it was AMAZING. Many say that he was much better live than in the studio. That was my experience!
He wasn't.
Leinsdorf's Walkure, for me, is the best all round recording of a Wagner opera there is. Uniquely, it has great sound, great orchestral playing, wonderful singers in every single role, great balance between voice and orchestra. Its electric! Can you think of another that perfect? I can't. Other recordings have greater bits, for sure, but there's always something that isnt perfect. For example, Solti's ring, for me, is too stately, Bohm's has imperfect sound, Keilberth's has occasional intonation issues in the winds and brass, and so on. Leinsdorf's Walkure is the tops! Eternal kudos to Erich Leinsdorf for pulling off the only perfect Wagner recording.
If Price had sung Elsa and Gorr was still the Ortrud she had been 3-5 years earlier, L's Lohengrin might have rivaled the Walküre. And if they had cast a real Telramund. But Konya has always been the best Lohengrin. Yeah, I know. What if what if.
....What if Leinsdorf had been allowed to complete the Ring cycle begun with Walkure?
@@markgifford6291Ooh, a London rather than a Vienna Ring. I wonder how they'd cast it? What if he'd recorded a Ring in New York when he took over for Bodansky in the late '30s and had Flagstad, Melchior, Thorborg, Schorr and Kipnis in his casts? But in Living Stereo, of course!
Leinsdorf gets plenty of ❤❤❤ fro me! Thanks for this video, Dave!
Interesting point about the generation of conductors known for their irascibility or prickliness. As you say, there was Szell, Toscanini, Leinsdorf, plus the 'screaming skull' Solti, and Reiner had the worst reputation of all - film of him conducting is positively scary to watch, as his all-seeing gaze moves from one terrified desk to another. Yet the best of them achieved spectacular results precisely because they were so intolerant of mediocrity. So I'd be fascinated to hear you talk about the 'fear factor' in orchestras. When is it productive and when is it counter-productive? Could anyone today get away with such theatrical tantrums or nasty put-downs?
The ultimate tyrant as a conductor was allegedly Gustav Mahler, born in the same decade as Toscanini. Mahler lived only to 1911, and in those days the orchestral musicans were gross amateurs by modern standards. Conservatories ahave since standardized musical performance about as completely as have college bands. There is much less tolerance for for individuality in orchestral play now than there used to be. Mahler was infamous for execrating the level of performance of his time. Was that appropriate? The orchestral players of his time would now be driving trucks, perhaps listening to classical music while driving on freeways in Illinois.
For the listener the benefit is that one can hear good orchestral play from a small-city orchestra. The bad side is that there is no longer the 'special' quality that distinguishes most orchestras.
Leinsdorf's BSO recordings of Prokofiev are extraordinary, as unlikely as that is, given his central European background. So is his recording of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra, which is iconic as it the engineering seems to capture the unique experience of hearing that piece in Symphony Hall, where it was first performed. As a teenager, many of my first live performances of standard repertoire were with Leinsdorf and the BSO. They seemed exciting at the time, but now they seem rigid and overdriven. His Mahler symphony recordings (1,3,5 and 6) were among the first made in the USA of those symphonies, and they now sound timid and even unidiomatic. And in the field of opera, his recording of Madama Butterfly with Leontyne Price and Richard Tucker has never been equalled; Leinsdorf's contribution is highlighting the tremendous craft of Puccini's score.
The Prokofiev symphonies are nothing special.
I agree, he was so often at his best in contemporary music (and R. Strauss was a contemporary for him.) RCA missed a good bet when they could have taken the fillers (the Side 4s in the vinyl days) of his Mahler 5 and 6, devoted to Alban Berg and issued them as a single disc. They're far more interesting than the Mahler symphony performances they companioned.
I've read some terrible reviews of Leinsdorf over the years and often wondered why he seemed to get no love. The thing with his Boston recordings from the 60's for me is that they sound so good with a beautiful acoustic and a magnificent orchestra, especially the strings. Brahms Symphony No.2, Mozart 36 and 39, Schumann 4, Mahler 5 have all given me much enjoyment.
Leinsdorf was OK. what I want to know is - Why Dudamel gets all the love
Perhaps because there are ever fewer people old enough to remember or care much about earlier generations of conductors. Dudamel has a good press agent and nicely graying hair, a proven combination that worked great for Rattle.
Because he is the Carmen Miranda of the classical world and he was picked! Hebis however an extraordinary musician
Thanks for this very reasoned presentation. Comments about Leinsdorf as an accompanist/conductor remind me of his recording with André Watts of the Liszt Totentanz and the Franck Variations Symphoniques... and the fact that Watts, sadly, has just died. There is a box of his SONY recordings. Would it merit a video from you? I can't find information that you have discussed it.
Also, I second the idea of a video about conductors and 'the fear factor'...
Your post is the first I've read of the death of Andre Watts. I may be old, but I'm a news junkie of sorts, and I didn't see a single reference made concerning the death of this fine musician in any of the larger news publications. My, how times have changed that someone who brought so much joy and someone of such great musical talent can die forgotten.
I absolutely agree with your assessment. 1.) Who could have ever imagined turning on the TV (PBS, that is) in the late 60's and seeing LIVE concert performances of the Mahler 3rd, the 6th, Schuller's "7 Studies on Paul Klee", etc?! Leinsdorf's BSO programs and recordings were continually fascinating (I like his Prokofiev 3rd Sym for the sound and power; it's the kind of work, tho, that can survive with a "straight" reading). But you nailed it when you said that, as a real-life person TALKING about music, Leinsdorf was fascinating (his books, too); but his performances were a totally different story.
2.) Yes, he did better in opera. His 1966 Verdi "Un Ballo" is FABULOUS...something about Verdi's still-tradition-bound formal structure (arias, ensembles, accompanied recit) MATCHED UP beautifully with Leinsdorf's sense of order and control, but still allowed the singers maximum range of expression. On the other hand, the more free-flowing, less formal PUCCINI fared much less well under Leinsdorf; it's just OK, with that early 70's "Tabarro" being particularly lifeless.
3.) Near the end of his career, he conducted a Copland 3rd Sym with Chicago, which was broadcast live on WFMT. I was home listening and recording, but was stunned to hear the big build-up to the end actually FALL APART in the performance! They pulled it back together, of course. Some time later, I spoke with one of the (ringer) percussionists who had played that concert, who said "Yeah, we were all laughing to ourselves when that happened, because Leinsdorf was such a nasty jerk towards us in rehearsals; we felt he deserved what happened, because it was HIS fault." Part of the legacy, I guess. LR
I could not agree more with your comment about his Prokofiev 3rd Symphony. I've not heard a performance that comes close to Leinsdorf's. I love the way he does the return of the march in the first movement. So many conductors are too fast at this big moment; Leinsdorf is perfect, in my opinion. I don't have the score, but I have seen it in the past and my memory is that Leinsdorf does exactly what Prokofiev requested.
@@donaldallen1771 I also really like Leinsdorf in that particular section. HOWEVER..if you want to hear the most awesome, brutal, crude, nightmarish Proko 3rd...with the same March passage equally crushing in its effect, you MUST hear the old Rozhdestvensky recording from 1961, with the USSR State Symphony Orch. It was released on the Artia label here, but has never been released on CD (and apparently won't be, due to a damaged master tape). Note: this is NOT Rozhdestventsky's later recording of Proko 3, which was part of his Melodia/EMI cycle of the late 60's; that version is merely adequate. It's the earlier 1961 version that's the killer (a live performance, apparently recorded along with the studio recording, was released on the "Revelation" label in 1996. It's very good, but the balances are way off). BTW..there is NO indication in the score for the march to be at a faster tempo; like you, I think it ruins the effect of the passage. LR
@@paxpaxart4740 That's completely inaccurate. As I said above, everyone in the orchestra knew ERICH was responsible for the screw-up, not the players. They did their professional best to pull things back together, to avoid a total break-down. But they felt that, on some level, justice had been served, since Leinsdorf had treated them like crap in rehearsal. That's just human nature. LR
@@paxpaxart4740 Then there's the story (true?) about the CSO principal wind player who refused to turn off his portable TV during an afternoon rehearsal at Ravinia (I think he was watching the Cubs game); the infuriated conductor (Kurt Mazur, I believe ), never returned to the orchestra. At least that's the way I heard it.
He was funny and quite lovable actually
I honestly don’t recall what Leinsdorf recordings I’ve heard, but his book The Composer’s Advocate is the best book on conducting I’ve read.
Leinsdorf was an early exposure for me in my neophyte days of getting to know classical, as the radio station back in the '70s played him a lot more than they do now. I instantly had a positive opinion of him that made me baffled when I started reading review magazines where everyone said he sucked. When I sampled more of his output I realized his inconsistency of quality, but at the same time didn't feel he deserved to be so easily written off. I'm glad you did this talk to lend a more balanced perspective.
When I was a kid working at a drugstore, I made a delivery to Erich Leinsdorf's home. In a window I saw the shadow of him teaching a girl violin.
Dave, I entirely agree with you in your discussion of Erich Leinsdorf. As a matter of fact I remember watching him in Boston after the fabulous and beloved Charles Munch. I SIMULTANEOUSLY admired Erich's precision and immaculate preparation, style and perfectly controlled gestures. AND I felt his tightness. Mostly dry and starched performances. Joyless! I felt he never let go in himself and never allowed much freedom to the orchestra. I felt for him, but for me he almost never brought forth an inspired performance from the orchestra. After the Munch years (and Monteux's guest appearances) it must have been a letdown for the orchestra to make music with him. Oddly, Dave, some years after he left Boston, I remember when he returned as a guest conductor and did a FABULOUS Bartok Concerto for Orchestra. He really let his hair down that night, and he received a tremendous applause. Maybe he felt intimidated after coming in after Munch. Munch was such an ecstatic conductor. Every concert of his was a new adventure. Finally,: I thought Leinsdorf did some wonderful Richard Strauss performances. Like Ein Heldenleben and some incidental music from Strauss' operas. Have a great day, Dave! Thank you!
The Rubenstein/Leinsdorf Beethoven piano concerto cycle is pretty good. Leinsdorf's sympathetic accompaniment doesn't overwhelm Rubinstein's delicate touch on the piano. Not for everyone but I find Rubinstein's artistry practically always irresistible.
How right you are! For me, re. Leinsdorf and Rubinstein, their recording of the Tchaikovsky First P:iano Concerto is sublime, just right in emotional temperature, tempi, and all of the rest. Rubinstein, whether with Wallenstein or (better) with Leinsdorf, was an exceptionally fine Beethoven player.
Generally speaking, I agree with your assessment of Leinsdorf - much better at opera than in the symphonic repertory. I used to look forward to and listen to WQXR's "First Hearing" every week. My recollection, however, is that it was hosted by Lloyd Moss, not George Jellinek. Jellinek's program was called "The Vocal Scene," which was also quite good.
I was on the show, and we did it with George. I think Lloyd did it too, earlier (or maybe George produced and Lloyd hosted). My interactions were all with George.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I always loved "First hearing" back in the day when it was also on KXTR in Kansas City. Is there, by chance, a vault of recordings of that show somewhere?
Hey Sony! Time for a Leinsdorf box!
Would you regard Leinsdorf as a Kapellmeister? That appellation sometimes gets applied to Karl Böhm, another conductor who is regarded as a conductor whose best work was in opera.
There are many conductors, and performers in general who are, as you put it, good but not great. Some continue to be lauded and some don't. I suppose ultimately it depends on sales.
Dave, Leinsdorf made recordings with the Boston Symphony of Prokofiev Symphonies 2,3,5 & 6 for RCA. They also made recordings of some Prokofiev violin and piano concertos. Were they any good?
www.classicstoday.com/review/big-boxes-leinsdorf-browning-perlman-play-prokofiev/?search=1
I started Beethoven symphonies with Leinsdorf and found them all `matter of fact`. It was only when I got into KIeiber/Szell and Wand when they all took off.
What do you mean by matter of fact?
@@ulisesdemostenes7074 Yes - they are a bit `basic`.
A close friend of mine now retired after decades in the classical radio biz says that Leinsdorf live was dramatically better than Leinsdorf in the studio. He seemed to think that recordings were statements of technical perfection rather than theatrical events. If so, the best part of his career is lost to us.
Not true. He was no better live. I saw him and I know.
Enjoyed this video very much. Appreciate your comments and your honesty. That's why I follow you. Thanks for mentioning the Walkure, Salome and Die Tote Stadt. All splendid recordings. I may be the only one who does, but I enjoy his Cosi Fan Tutte as well. I saw him a number of times at the Met and he led some exciting performances. A big orchestral box? I don't think so.
I pretty much agree entirely with Dave's assessment. For anyone who may be interested in the exceptions-Stravinsky's Agon-played with precision and energy-is practically impossible to find, but possibly the best recorded version of that piece. And Beethoven's Fourth, which is rather easy to find, is also excellent.
As well as the Ginther Schuller!
Gunther that is...
I love your trenchant opinions, Dave. Keep it up.
For years, when I was a student and didn't have any money, the only opera recording I owned was Verdi's Macbeth conducted by Erich and with Leonard Warren (I think) as the Thane and Leonie Rysanek, who was marvelous, as his wife. It was on tape and it wore out eventually. I thought about him the other day when listening to Trovatore from the Royal Opera House in London. I managed about an act and a half before turning it off. What was missing was the power and tautness that EL brought to the inner rhythm and which Pappano (and a surprising number of other conductors) failed to deliver. Not interpretative brilliance, perhaps, but not all music needs it. Rather it is often understanding what the music needs that counts. Perhaps there was something about the need to control many things at once that bought out the best of him with opera.
Talking of opera recordings - the thing I hated, being someone who liked to see a cohesive interpretation - is that almost no recording of opera I've done is recorded in order. For me that really matters. We'd get to the end of the week, and get a thank you, we're all done, but as players we had been jumping around playing everything in bits, out of order from a purely practical perspective, booking players in a Farewell symphony kind of way. Sure, the conductor knew what went where, but the assumption that the players don't need to be involved in the story telling is a little unambitious.
Maybe a box dedicated to Leinsdorf the Accompanist?
It might be the funny 70's shirts he wore on so many album covers.
...and you're right, thinking about it... name ANY Leinsdorf (orchestral music) recording and ask: "Is this the best recording of [this]?" and I can't think of a single one where that would come up as a possibility. But, alas, many wonderful recordings as a concerto accompanist. I've always liked him.
I wonder how things would have turned out had Steinberg gotten the BSO instead of Leinsdorf. Based on his later work with the BSO maybe we would have gotten more great recordings and performances with a healthy Steinberg.
I remember Steinberg's first BSO concert that opened with Beethoven's Overture Consercration of the House (as if Symphony Hall needs to be consecrated). The fellow who accompanied me, who was not a Leinsdorf lover, referred to the performance as 'constipation in the house.' Well. Listening to airchecks reveals that this was a harsh assessment, but after Leinsdorf's disciplined approach, one could tell that Steinberg, let us say, was a variable conductor.
In the italian Opera repertoire, everyone talks about the Turandot, but I believe Leinsdorf's most remarkable italian opera recording is his Tosca, with Milanov, Bjoerling and Warren!
Fair enough.
Warren as Scarpia is a monumentally great and chilling interpretation of that role, right up there with George London. Both surpass Gobbi, whose voice is just too small for the part and which lacks the fearsome resonance of Warren, London, and Taddei.
I wonder if some of his recordings might be judged a bit more favorably when they get a proper remastering. Dynagroove made his American pressings sound wooly. And a lot of his cds were remastered less than ideally for RCA budget issues. Sometimes, it didn’t even sound like they were recorded in Boston Symphony Hall, one of the more sonically recognizable on disc.
I felt that his Mahler 5 and 6 sounded a lot better on European pressings. That Bartok Concerto for Orchestra came out in the High Performance series…and I thought it was great, for instance.
Of course…that Mahler 1 and 3 were reissued too, and they’re nothing special. But I still wonder if there’s some other gems lurking.
@@paxpaxart4740 I still find some of those bargain issues a little rough…but I agree with you regarding his 9th. (Another High Performance winner.)
I found that Urania Mahler 5 and 6 last night, after another commenter mentioned it. I’d have to A/B it, but the 5th seemed better than the cd. Maybe these were remastered again.
A great talk. Thank you. Based on what I've heard from his Boston years where he is not accompanying, I agree that the output is generally not memorable, although to be fair not much has ever been released. But, as you say, there are exceptions, one of which is a performance of Strauss' Ein Heldenleben. I believe this was only ever made available as a CD in Japan and luckily I obtained a copy. Perhaps, as far as the orchestral repertoire is concerned, EL was another conductor who really only came alive in certain works.
His BSO Mahler recordings were very good, even if Bernstein always got the good notices.
As far as RCA's profitability, don't forget Fiedler and the Pops. Made up for a lot of financial shortcomings elsewhere.
No, they weren't. They were totally ordinary.
I've never seen it explained exactly (or even approximately) how Melodiya became a privately owned enterprise. Was there an auction? Or did a bunch of ex Commissars and KGB agents magically obtain ownership? Also it was said that Melodiya was simultaneoously licensing the same material to different labels, like RCA/BMG and Russia Revolution (I have the entire set acquired painfully over many years).
I'm just young enough I guess (there's something I haven't said in a long time), that Leinsdorf was completely not on my radar, other than from time to time people would recommend his Prokofiev records.
Maybe a "10 Best Recordings" is in order?
What happened to those BTW?
No, I don't think so, but we'll see. I took a break from those when I had to pack up my collection and move. I'm working on getting it going again.
I have a Mahler 3rd conducted by Leinsdorf which I much prefer to Horenstein !
I'm not sure that that means. Horenstein hasn't held up well, neither is especially great, and as I said, the issue isn't what you like.
I imagine an alternate universe where Reiner didn't get sick, and Leinsdorf didn't have to be flown in to cover for Brahms 2 with Richter. It's still great, nostalgic, it was my first purchase on vinyl.
Well, Reiner had already done the Brahms PC2 in 1958 with Gilels, and in '61 he recorded it again with Van Cliburn. Frankly, I don't care for ether of them. But the Leinsdorf/Richter is a kind of miraculous one-off. Leinsdorf had Reiner's crack orchestra in front of him, and pretty much went where Richter led him - or at least had the sense not to get in the way.
"Leindorf's Walkuere was better than Solti/Culshaw's"........ not too hard bc honestly i think that was the weakest offering in that Ring Cycle......
Wasn't Leontyne Price meant to be Leinsdorf's Elsa in that calamitous Lohengrin? I recall reading that she was. Why did she drop out (to be replaced by an unknown singer)? Shocked to hear the sales figures for the Abbado Boris!
Hello, Price was sick and had to cancel that Lohengrin which actually is a wonderful recording and performance when re evaluated today. Price was not replaced by an "unknown singer" she was replaced by a star soprano, Lucine Amara who is Nedda on the EMI Pagliacci with Corelli and Musetta on the Beecham EMI Boheme and Ormandy Sony Verdi Requiem (Soprano Soloist). Lucine Amara made her Metropolitan Opera Debut in 1950 and sang there for an uninterrupted 41 seasons singing 882 performances of 56 roles and about 30-40 LEADING Soprano roles from Mozart to Verdi to Wagner and Strauss and Britten and everything in-between. After her debut at in 1950 Lucine Amara continued at the Metropolitan Opera singing opening nights and new productions over the course of 41 seasons until 1991, singing 56 roles in 882 appearances, nearly 60 of which were broadcast on radio and television. Appearing regularly as Micaëla in Carmen, Cio-Cio-San in Madama Butterfly, and Tatiana in Eugene Onegin, Antonia in Les contes d'Hoffmann, Donna Elvira in Don Giovanni, Nedda in Pagliacci, Mimi in La bohème, her repertoire also included Leonora in Il trovatore and Aida, Manon Lescaut, Alice Ford, Countess in Nozze, Liu in Turandot and Pamina in Flute.
@@peterrandsman4881 thanks for the correction. I'm familiar with the Beecham Boheme.
@@67Parsifal Ah. Great. Thanks for listening. Listen again to that Lohengrin it's really exciting compared to the poor Wagner performances of the present generation most of the time. Thanks.
@@peterrandsman4881 I’ve heard it and, yes, it’s excellent. Hard to find like voices today!
BTW-- my comments below, in total agreement with our host on Leinsdorf's effectiveness as a conductor, are applicable...almost word-for-word... to my opinion of ANOTHER very famous, influential conductor in America during the same period. But that's for another discussion.. LR
I wish the full audio of Leinsdorf’s program with the Boston Symphony being interrupted by the assassination of Kennedy were still available. He made some very awkward and uncharismatic remarks, and after the audience gasps subsided, had the orchestra play the funeral march from the Eroica. Now that was one occasion where he definitely got personality out of a performance.
We have no idea how good the performance was, nor does it matter. It was not a musical occasion.
He also recorded during the dreaded Dynagroove period, when recording dynamics were fiddled with apallingly by RCA, which I don't think helped.
You mean "Dynawarp."
@@DavesClassicalGuideit certainly gave a warped view of the dynamics
@@DavesClassicalGuide I'll never forget the first time I took one of those records out of the sleeve. It was so thin it flopped down in my hand! I couldn't believe it. I thought it was defective and I was going to take it back but a friend of mine told me that all the new ones were like that. I guess you could say those were the first "floppy discs."
One should not confuse the two disastrous developments in RCA’s recording and marketing divisions. Dynagroove was introduced in 1963, early in Leinsdorf’s tenure with Boston, and it allegedly improved the dynamic range and frequency response of records, especially when played over non-audiophile systems. RCA tinkered with it over the next seven years, such that one never knew what to expect in a Dynagroove recording. Some were just plain awful (Leinsdorf’s Bruckner 4, Beethoven 5, Tchaikovsky violin concerto, and worst of all, Dvorak 6); some were excellent (Stravinsky Firebird Suite and Agon, Mahler 1 and 5, Wagner Lohengrin); most were just mediocre and frustratingly flat and colorless. Dynaflex was introduced in the early 70s, not surprisingly during the first oil supply crisis. Even though RCA touted it as an improvement in pressing quality, impervious to warps and with less groove noise, the results were floppy, bumpy, and often seriously warped records.
Did he still make recordings for RCA after he left Boston ?
The only RCA recording he made later on that I can recall is the 1975 Die Tote Stadt by Korngold with the Munich Radio Orchestra. After leaving Boston, he made some recordings for Decca/London with the London Symphony and others. He also made a few recordings with the Los Angeles Phiharmonic during the 1980s.
I agree with the general consensus: Leinsdorf was generally a good, reliable, but not great conductor. I find his operatic recordings much more enjoyable and interesting than most of his symphonic stuff. His RCA recordings of Tosca (Milanov, Bjorling, Warren), Barber of Seville (Peters, Valetti, Merrill), Turandot, (Nilsson, Bjorling, Tebaldi), Madama Butterfly (2 versions, with Moffo and Price, respectively), Ballo in Maschera (Price, Bergonzi) and several others are among my favorites of those operas.
He also recorded a fine Verdi Requiem that is, liked many of his recordings, overlooked today.
I take no issue with what I am called [overly intellectual], especially by somebody who has been watching every performance. There are three worlds of music-the composer's, the performer's and the critic's. I believe in friction, for without friction there can be no progress. - Erich Leinsdorf
“The press is still the most prominent mouthpiece of the public. Music life in the community is (or should be) led by music critics who, in turn, try to ascertain in what direction the public is going. Somewhere in the subtle interrelation between the public and its verbalization by critics, our standards are established, artists are ‘made,’ and the historic record of successes and failures is prepared.” - Erich Leinsdorf
IMHO Leinsdorf was an unimaginative conductor, even in opera. Dependable, but unimaginative
I wonder if it was with Leinsdorf when RCA used the sales pitch for the BSO “the aristocrat of the orchestras”. I lived in Boston for 3 years in the early 90,s ( Ozawa,s last years) and to me they sound uninteresting more than aristocratic.
There are some Munch recordings with that awful sobriquet.
I agree 100% with Dave. Sadly Leinsdorf was far too literal to win the heart of the Classical music lover public. Despite remarkable recordings here and there Leinsdorf to me was a perfect musical traditionalist with little personality.
Why do you say classical music is a money loser business? How come it lasted so long? At least I guess it was good business up until jazz and rock came along. Please Dave elaborate on that some time. Thanks
Certainly I'm no David, but I'll venture a guess. I think Classical Music was once somewhat profitable, at least it didn't lose tons of money and there was plenty of it available. Why? I believe it was because Music Appreciation was taught, and in the public schools I attended, compulsory. Somehow over the last 40 or more years, Music Appreciation and Industrial Arts, or "Shop" lost its societal relevance. You have to grow an audience for music, and our public schools seem to have different priorities now. Just ask some of the old geezers on this site where they were first exposed to Classical Music, and they'll tell you, in the home, or in school. It's just not a "thing" today I'm afraid. Jazz and Rock didn't kill Classical, lack of interest did, or there'd be more of it, and a more thriving and hopefully profitable recording industry that would not just record, but vigorously market their product.
Thank God the U.S. Army stepped in 🤣
So like the list of choral conductors who aren’t so interesting outside or choral music, seems like Leinsdorf is in his own classification of fantastic in opera but totally respectable and adequate in symphonic repertoire.
Nothing has changed in the 25 years since Leinsdorf’s death; your assessment chimes with the obituaries back then. On another note, Karajan’s Lohengrin was also wildly expensive and over budget. Perhaps it has something to do with the opera.