Thanks for sharing Andy, When learning I don’t consider time as “wasted” it’s all experience. doing things “wrong” is great for lateral thinking. I really enjoy your videos and content, your enthusiasm is a joy to watch. Thanks too for sharing your experience with Basen, I ordered some cells from them in November based on your recommendation and I wasn’t disappointed, their service and quality were top notch. 👍🏽
I know if it was me doing that I would be getting out two or three times to get the tools, then the correct wire, then the correct lugs... Ahahah. This is what we want to see. The real world experience, because everyone else crimps and it's spot on! This is what actually happens when we try to do it at home, and generates insecurity about what we are doing. That is a perfect learning video sir. My respects and looking forward the next videos!!!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Before you wase 30 bucks ... good airing will do. Slow and gently cutting might help. (I myself would be so angry to use a chissle and hammer!)
oh yes....this is how my projects go. i shop for a good price on parts and often find the quality is an issue. different size....just slightly different shape and so on. then i spend my time making the mismatched parts work, much like you did with changing the jaws to your crimper. it is a ever changing balance of cost and quality. My experience has been even a simple project can become more challenging as cost becomes more important. the easy way could be to buy an assembled battery1000.00 or more and done. but what fun is that! the real question for me has been how much fun do i want to have with my current project! I like your approach, build what you can and buy what you need.
I did exactly the same bus bar order problem Last week but with 32 cells... 2 goes to get it right lol..And I stripped a thread...all with the house power off and the freezers warming up due to no power.
Hi I climbed the same learning curve. I bought a ratchet cable cutter from eBay for ~£20. It easily cuts 50mm^2 cable and will cut 3 core 6mm^2 swa cable with seemingly little damage.
My bus bars on my older agm set up were copper pipe flattered and drilled. Never felt any warmth from them, they worked a treat. Also, a nice trick to help push the copper wire into the ring terminal is to use a small cable tie around the copper strands, not too tight, just to hold the strands together, and slide it along as you feed the wire into the ring terminal.
on the subject of crimping: if you have a vise (or vice - depending on the local spelling) in your garage then fix the crimping pliers with one of the arms in it so you have one hand to pump and one to hold the cable (I saw it on another YT channel)
Loved the info on those cable lugs. I guess you get what you pay for. Great to see a quality one along side one from ebay; and its not to say that those don't have a use for some applications.
I do not thrust this C shaped hydraulic crimping tools since I saw a video from its head breaking while crimping. I do not need a big heavy metal junk flying around at high speed. The H shaped (both side fixed) seems to be a bit more durable. 35mm2 (AWG2) cables, so you will only use 80A max charge or discharge. I think I would choose the 50mm2 (AWG1) cables. Even the busbars are bigger 20x2=40mm2 and they are very short (all together 1,4m). If you use 35mm2 cable and only 80A then you have a 43W loss on a 3+3m cable. (30W on a 50mm2 cable). Not much, but it will represent as heat. With the double insulation cable can heat up even more (more heat, more resistance, even more heat). It is all between the recommended parameters but not a big difference in cable price.
Also, especially with a 12v system, voltage drop in the cables is a major problem. In our 12v 3kw setup, I've used 50mm^2 for each of the two paralleled battery banks.
The crimp problems are due to several problems, including 1. inconsistent lug wall thicknesses, from one brand to the other, 2. AWG vs metric wire and lug sizes, with one standard sometimes passed off as meeting the other. 3. some wire manufacturers cheat/skimp slightly on the wire sizes. The important thing is to get a very firm crimp. In some cases, we've used a mixture of two different die sizes. Don't worry about small "ears" on the sides. Just snip or file them off and cover the entire crimp with heavy-walled shrink.
I would NOT use those cheap lugs. I only use TEMCO lugs, there are other good ones, but those lugs you bought are crap! The crimp didn't work because the walls are way to thin on those lugs.
For a stationary application this isn't a concern. It does look like they just squashed a copper pipe on one side, drilled a hole, and plated them. Wouldn't be hard to do that yourself.
You can use a angle grinder with a cutting disc to cut cables or hoses with metal sheaths or re enforcement. A Dremel will also do it. As for the cheap ebay crimp connectors. As others have said the connector is out of spec. Use the die for the size of connector but place a piece of round bar in with the connector, between connector/ferrul and die. Something like part of a nail or the blunt end of a drill bit. Select the metal to place a semicircular indentation into one of the hex flats, that will press down into the cable for a firm connection. Alternatively make a shim to fit up against 2 or 3 faces of the hex die.
I have the exact same crimper (just a differant name) and the dies are the same too ! i have to use a size smaller and put up with the "wings", they annoy me as it makes the shrinktube look messy :(
A wee update, i got thicker more expensive terminals from my local auto parts shop tighter but still able to pull them off and i still had to go down a size :(, ithink it's partly the dies partly the terminals ? i did get smaller "wings" with the better terminals though and it looks better wit hshrink tube over it :)
If you have the most positive and most negative on the center of the bank, not the outside, it works much better. Also, I have the same crimper. Yes, use one or two sizes down especially with cheap thin connectors. This gives a very solid crimp
My thoughts why not slide the left side over to the right and vice versa. Then you could connect bus bar to connect furtherest neg and pos in line. Also closest neg and positive both close to outlet. Also Andy, after crimping any reason for not soldering as well? Sorry if I am wrong, just throw ing it out there buddy!
I've used a chop aw or even a tae saw to cut cables. Also what you can do before cutting is wrap the end real tight with electrical tape then cut and remove tape
Andy try Windy Nation or Temco on Amazon or Ebay for tinned copper ring terminal. Both top quality with flared ends. You can also get complete cable, lugs and heat shrink from Windy Nation which is what I did.
I bought these from Amazon US, and they are inch , but they do make wide pads lugs. SELTERM 8 AWG 5/16" Stud (Wide Pad) (25 pcs.) UL Marine Grade Wire Lugs, Battery Cable Ends, Tinned Copper Eyelets, Tubular Ring Terminal Connectors [B8]
@@OffGridGarageAustralia well i thought about using words that started with sh... but stayed nice. i notice your german accent...moved down under long ago ( dutchman here) ?
I've got the same hydraulic-press and everything works fine with the inserts. Please also check the cable... where did you order them? I use the crimper mainly for 35 and 50mm² ... so if there is no production-problem it can be the real cable-size, too.
A thought for cutting. A piece of metal pipe same as total diametre of cable use as a sheath around cable in vice not too tight. Then hacksaw gently quicly but with low pressure. Would waste an inch if cable but a socket tight fitted would work?
For cutting the cable, crossing-shear cutters give a nice square end, (not nipping cutters!) For the bus-bars I bought brass finger-panels for doors, cut to required dimensions. I've got one of those hydraulic terminal-crimpers; I use the insert that gives the best crimp, then rotate 60 degrees and do it again.
I've noticed quite a few people using brass instead of copper or even the much cheaper aluminum but not sure why. Is is to do with electrolysis or cost or just looks?. Brass being such a poor conductor I don't understand the logic there.
They didn't give you bus bars that can be used for "end to end" connections? Every time I've ordered cells they've provided short bus bars for both "side to side" and longer bus bars for "end to end" connections. I drew up a quick picture of the cell layout required if you did want to try and use an "end to end" connection at the middle of the pack: photos.app.goo.gl/J41S4ZdW39B3Bvpp7 (The bus bars are represented by the different colored backgrounds) If you do go with a cable at the middle of the pack, you could put your fuse on that cable as well. (Assuming your BMS allows it, some allow mid-pack fuses, others don't) On the crimper: It's the cheap terminals from Ebay. I have that exact same hydraulic crimper and I've had the same issues with "cheap" lugs. It's really worth it to pay extra for good quality lugs. On the wire cutters: I use these: www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/Grinders-Sanders/cable-bolt-cutters/high-leverage-cable-cutters-63050 and they cut through very large cables just fine. Here in the US you can find these at any home improvement store or any electrical supply store. The ones you pulled up online would also work well.
After cutting with the hacksaw just trim the spread ends with a good set of side cutters. (Before removing the insulation) A junior hacksaw with a finer TPI cut welding cable without the burr
I have the exact same crimping tool, and even using proper branded bevel holed lugs all of the dies are almost a whole size too big! Same as another comment below, 70mm cable lugs crimp perfectly in 50mm dies Nd 25mm cable Crimps perfectly in the 16mm dies!
Your lugs and crimping with the 25mm seems quite adequate for your plans. Check temps with high load just for good measure, but I don't think you have any problem.
So glad you picked up on the poor quality of the lugs. The CSA of the lug is never the same as the CSA of the cable and you should always go for heavy duty lugs. Also beware of ordering a metric cable size like 35 mm and getting a 2 AWG cable equivalent which is only 33.6mm and you 35 mm lug will be a poor or loose fit.
Is that cutter in the TV antennae area? I was looking at them yesterday, wondering. And whether I should go to Repco(a bit small) or Supercheap. Do you know about Repco's F1 history?
that crimper work well if you put the backside of the jaw in the bench vice then rotate your handle up one hand on cable one hand on lever easy cheesy sometimes the back jaw is beveled too much but a grinder makes it nice and flat for the vise jaw firm grip
Asides from the correct cutting tool your cable looks like a EN 60228 class 5 or 6 finewire cable. So you should use class 5 cable lugs for it. I would suggest Klauke 705F10. If the combination of cable type and lug do not match your crimping tool MUST fail of course.
To cut the cable, use a large sharp kitchen knife, hammer, and block of wood. One sharp pound with the hammer on the back of the knife with the cable on the block of wood will make a very clean cut.
10:00 300A terminal is better. OT-300A Open-End Copper Crimp Terminal Lugs AWG 4-2/0 Battery Cable Connector 35 is okay just heat it up with a torch and fill it up with rosin core solder wire. 11:48 For the wire cutter hand saw is fine. Just trim the end around 45⁰ angle with a sharp razer or use a dremel cutter wheel.
The proper lug that you showed had a thicker wall to it. I am guessing if you used those, the crimper would work just fine. I think the lugs you are trying to use aren’t up to snuff.
When try, try again fails the 4th time, good have a couple perfectly calibrated beers and re assess the challenge. Rough days are less forgettable so we can hopefully learn from them,, it happens to the very best of us but all the same,, Sorry for the rough day and I hope the worst of them are behind us both though I feel I may have just jinxed us all. Now I'm afraid to get out of bed tomorrow!
U can cut the cables like me with radial Saw and u can use some eléctrical tipe very tight for keep the cable with same diameter i did dat for 70mm multiwire cable and works pefect
You might want to remove your wedding(?) ring. A crowbar short through that ring WILL amputate your finger. I've seen the pictures of that. No rings, no metal watches...even a single plain car battery can throw over 3000 amps into a crowbar short.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia A crowbar short doesn't require a crowbar. Just any similar "zero" resistance tool, like a socket wrench, plier, crowfoot wrench...
A pruner might work to cut, I think I see one on your peg board. I know this because my wife tries to take my wire cutter into the garden. Lol. Crimper and lugs are fine. It is ok to squeeze the copper on the sides. You can cut a lug apart to see if it squashed the cable inside.
Are you sure it's the copper that's expanded in the wire and not the plastic that's expanded from the heat of the hacksaw cutting? Maybe try taking the plastic insulation off and seeing if it fits?
Hello. I leave a 1 or 2 mm ring of sleave on the wire. I slide it to the edge of the conductor, so the strings stay together, then, slide the ring back with the connector. the ring can stay on, if the conductor goes deep enough in the connector, ortherwise cut the ring and gain 1 or 2mm.
Solder the connections as I would do. Use a small torch or 100w+ Soldering Gun to sink a little flux and solder into the joint. Military Specs are found on Google. Cheers Guys.
The lugs look way too thin ! I got some from a guy eBay and mine where commercial ones way thicker than cheap eBay ones as I had the same thoughts as you.
Hey! Ich habe meine Kabel mit einem 300w Lötkolben von AliExpress verlötet. Es ist super einfach und hält meiner Meinung nach besser! Aber nicht vergessen lötfett zu verwenden :)
@@OffGridGarageAustralia das würde mich auch sehr interessieren ob und wenn ja bei wieviel Ampere das passiert. Hast du ein Schweißgerät? Du könntest ja ein Kabel verlöten und es als Massekabel anschließen! :)
Go to electrical store locally and buy there an u will get def...excellen crimp with 35 dies....cable lugs are not worth to go cheap rather spend $ more and u will sleep better....
I though you were building an overnight energy storage for your solar panels. So an average night is 12 hours+ (the early morning and late evening are not producing much power), your battery bank is 14 kWh and you are wiring it like if you want to pull 200 amps out of it. Maybe you should reconsider your power usage, run power hungry appliances, washer/dryer, AC, oven during the day and PC, TV, lights at night pulling at most 20 amps from your batteries. Also keep in mind you may have a few cloudy days in a row, so build your storage large enough to deal with it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Maybe not from your first post but I was in the understanding that you where building an off grid solar home. I could be wrong, I see you charging batteries from PC power supply running off the grid, for testing its clearly the best way. Yes I wonder what's your final goal. Pulling 200 amps from a 280 AMPS battery look like a surge power supply, like the Australian power regulation. Yes I wonder what is your goal.
Don,t use a hack saw, use a cable cutter does a much nicer job. To get ride of the wings on your crimp rotate the ring terminal and crimp a second time.
I'm taking a cooler, and building a portable power station, with 12v lifepo4 batteries, bms, 1000 watt pure sine wave inverter, solar charge controller, and some cooling fans. It'll plug into a 260 watt tilting solar array for charging.
I feel your pain, it always seems like there is one thing holding up the project. Make sure to use UL Listed lugs. I have used Taukealugs from Amazon and they work well.
Just use the saw to cut cable, strip isolation.... Take peace of electrical tape en fold together lengthwise with the sticky side together. Use this to wind firmly over the bare wire and leave just enough to start placing the connector, after that while putting on connector at same time unravel the tape. Even if you have a wire cutter, sometimes while stripping the copper spreads and when you use this trick it will save a lot of trouble
The thickness of the metal in the lug, will affect the die size you need. There are apparently no standards, so the brand name companies say to use their matching lugs and tools. Nice, huh?
Use your large soldering iron or gun to heat and fill with solder after crimp to ensure PERMANENT connection at lugs. Pain in arse but you only have to do it once and no chance of corrosion causing a high resistance connection over time.
A correctly done crimp creates a cold weld between the wire and the connector and will out last a crimp and solder connector. Thats why commercial and professional connectors are crimped.
Same problems with that crimper. Either go one smaller die or put a ferrule on the wire. Perhaps it was designed to "Anglo" crimp spec not actual Chinese lugs. Use a proper cable cutter not a hacksaw. Bunnings 14mm cable cutter for 35mm2 cable - no way. You just have to pay for the correct stuff even though you only use it once.
- Use Selterm Tinned LUGS and you will never have issues. selterm.com/pages/battery-cable-lugs - Open ended lugs are NOT a good idea, it IS an invitation for corrosion over time. - Always put Heat Shrink over the cable and the lug barrel. Adhesive type shrink is best. - Use a Proper Wire Cutter ONLY. Even a Big Cable / Bolt cutter will work well if used carefully. - Why did you not use the battery setup & layout diagrams as provided all over the DIYSolarForum ? Would have saved you a couple of hours of puzzle playing. * HANDY FOR EVERYONE: diysolarforum.com/resources/luyuan-tech-basic-lifepo4-guide.151/download Alternately, here is a 16S "Block" Pack Diagram: imgur.com/7ZSILYk The Hydraulic Crimper: There are Metric Dies & AWG Dies ! Many people DO NOT REALIZE THIS and it can create issues if using the wrong sized dies. Having a slight "ridge" as you showed post-compression with the smaller Die is not unexpected, this is also not a serious problem but you do have to have Shrink Wrap over the interface of the cable & lug. NOTA BENE: When you look at the Selterm Site, you will see Metric & AWG Lugs & Connectors. Note the slight variances between them. Then if you look at Cable Manufacturers such as SouthWire's Royal Excelene you will see some difference as well. See thickness, strands, sheathing etc. Royal® SUPER EXCELENE ® WELDING CABLE UL www.industrial.southwire.com/en/tile/10/spec/70300/?country=CA Royal® EXCELENE ® NON-UL WELDING CABLE www.industrial.southwire.com/en/tile/10/spec/70305/?country=CA Then compare to Metric Sized cables (Southwire provides the mm thickness in their listings). Hope this is helpful to you and all of your channel viewers.
Hey Andy, thanks for taking the time to create all your videos. I for one really appreciate it. You sir, have simplified my process.
Thanks for sharing Andy, When learning I don’t consider time as “wasted” it’s all experience. doing things “wrong” is great for lateral thinking. I really enjoy your videos and content, your enthusiasm is a joy to watch. Thanks too for sharing your experience with Basen, I ordered some cells from them in November based on your recommendation and I wasn’t disappointed, their service and quality were top notch. 👍🏽
Thank you so much!
if you get ears on a crimp just rotate it one flat and crimp again, I typically crimp to 80-90% and then rotate and complete the crimp.
I know if it was me doing that I would be getting out two or three times to get the tools, then the correct wire, then the correct lugs... Ahahah.
This is what we want to see. The real world experience, because everyone else crimps and it's spot on! This is what actually happens when we try to do it at home, and generates insecurity about what we are doing. That is a perfect learning video sir.
My respects and looking forward the next videos!!!
I always cut thick cable and hose with a angle grinder and thin cutting disc.
Wow, how's the smell?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Before you wase 30 bucks ... good airing will do. Slow and gently cutting might help. (I myself would be so angry to use a chissle and hammer!)
You need cable shears, i cut wire for 2 to 3 hours a day and they are way way better than side cutters ;)
oh yes....this is how my projects go. i shop for a good price on parts and often find the quality is an issue. different size....just slightly different shape and so on. then i spend my time making the mismatched parts work, much like you did with changing the jaws to your crimper. it is a ever changing balance of cost and quality. My experience has been even a simple project can become more challenging as cost becomes more important. the easy way could be to buy an assembled battery1000.00 or more and done. but what fun is that! the real question for me has been how much fun do i want to have with my current project! I like your approach, build what you can and buy what you need.
Hahaha, glad I'm not alone. It can be quite frustrating sometime, hence I thought I share this bit as well here...
The crimper seems Nice, the lugs are probably out of specs and they don't crimp right
Hallo Andi,
das ist bei meinem Crimper auch so ,das Material muss ja irgendwo hin .Kann man aber durch verdrehen und nachcrimpen wegkriegen.
Hab jetzt qualitativ hochwertigere Terminals und das funktioniert.
A good video to show everyone your learning experience, and the traps for beginners.
I did exactly the same bus bar order problem Last week but with 32 cells... 2 goes to get it right lol..And I stripped a thread...all with the house power off and the freezers warming up due to no power.
Oh wow, it all comes together sometimes...
I have the same crimping tool it's also out of spec. I always use 1 step smaller die.
you could just move one battery to the other end. Sliding the other 7 batteries along
🤦♂️ You're a frickin' genius!
(not sure if I can slide them though)
Hi
I climbed the same learning curve. I bought a ratchet cable cutter from eBay for ~£20. It easily cuts 50mm^2 cable and will cut 3 core 6mm^2 swa cable with seemingly little damage.
Got the same crimper! Size the cable wire to the die it works perfectly every time
My bus bars on my older agm set up were copper pipe flattered and drilled. Never felt any warmth from them, they worked a treat.
Also, a nice trick to help push the copper wire into the ring terminal is to use a small cable tie around the copper strands, not too tight, just to hold the strands together, and slide it along as you feed the wire into the ring terminal.
on the subject of crimping: if you have a vise (or vice - depending on the local spelling) in your garage then fix the crimping pliers with one of the arms in it so you have one hand to pump and one to hold the cable (I saw it on another YT channel)
Great suggestion, someone else mentioned that before here. I will definitively do that.
Loved the info on those cable lugs. I guess you get what you pay for. Great to see a quality one along side one from ebay; and its not to say that those don't have a use for some applications.
I do not thrust this C shaped hydraulic crimping tools since I saw a video from its head breaking while crimping. I do not need a big heavy metal junk flying around at high speed. The H shaped (both side fixed) seems to be a bit more durable.
35mm2 (AWG2) cables, so you will only use 80A max charge or discharge. I think I would choose the 50mm2 (AWG1) cables. Even the busbars are bigger 20x2=40mm2 and they are very short (all together 1,4m).
If you use 35mm2 cable and only 80A then you have a 43W loss on a 3+3m cable. (30W on a 50mm2 cable). Not much, but it will represent as heat. With the double insulation cable can heat up even more (more heat, more resistance, even more heat). It is all between the recommended parameters but not a big difference in cable price.
Also, especially with a 12v system, voltage drop in the cables is a major problem.
In our 12v 3kw setup, I've used 50mm^2 for each of the two paralleled battery banks.
The crimp problems are due to several problems, including 1. inconsistent lug wall thicknesses, from one brand to the other, 2. AWG vs metric wire and lug sizes, with one standard sometimes passed off as meeting the other. 3. some wire manufacturers cheat/skimp slightly on the wire sizes. The important thing is to get a very firm crimp. In some cases, we've used a mixture of two different die sizes. Don't worry about small "ears" on the sides. Just snip or file them off and cover the entire crimp with heavy-walled shrink.
Great tip, thank you.
Wouldn't cutting off the ears release the grip of a crimped lug?
@@charlesrichards5389 if the ears were large it might. I’m talking about very small ears
Munchkin ears, not Spock ears.
I would NOT use those cheap lugs. I only use TEMCO lugs, there are other good ones, but those lugs you bought are crap! The crimp didn't work because the walls are way to thin on those lugs.
Yes, that was the case. You can see this in the video when compared to the other lug.
For a stationary application this isn't a concern. It does look like they just squashed a copper pipe on one side, drilled a hole, and plated them. Wouldn't be hard to do that yourself.
3:23 u can put 5cm more cable and if u ned to change the terminals just cut old ones and crimp new ones
Yes, great tip!
You can use a angle grinder with a cutting disc to cut cables or hoses with metal sheaths or re enforcement. A Dremel will also do it.
As for the cheap ebay crimp connectors. As others have said the connector is out of spec. Use the die for the size of connector but place a piece of round bar in with the connector, between connector/ferrul and die. Something like part of a nail or the blunt end of a drill bit. Select the metal to place a semicircular indentation into one of the hex flats, that will press down into the cable for a firm connection. Alternatively make a shim to fit up against 2 or 3 faces of the hex die.
Thanks for the tips!
That was so Unfortunate & you well managed. 👍
Thanks 👍
I have the exact same crimper (just a differant name) and the dies are the same too ! i have to use a size smaller and put up with the "wings", they annoy me as it makes the shrinktube look messy :(
A wee update, i got thicker more expensive terminals from my local auto parts shop tighter but still able to pull them off and i still had to go down a size :(, ithink it's partly the dies partly the terminals ? i did get smaller "wings" with the better terminals though and it looks better wit hshrink tube over it :)
Great video mate.
If you have the most positive and most negative on the center of the bank, not the outside, it works much better.
Also, I have the same crimper. Yes, use one or two sizes down especially with cheap thin connectors. This gives a very solid crimp
Great tip!
My thoughts why not slide the left side over to the right and vice versa. Then you could connect bus bar to connect furtherest neg and pos in line. Also closest neg and positive both close to outlet. Also Andy, after crimping any reason for not soldering as well?
Sorry if I am wrong, just throw ing it out there buddy!
Yes, I would solder that gap at the end of the wire to seal it off from the elements if nothing else.
I've used a chop aw or even a tae saw to cut cables. Also what you can do before cutting is wrap the end real tight with electrical tape then cut and remove tape
I heard of this tape trick before. Have to try it...
Bind the cable with cloth based tape over the cut then hacksaw does ok cut
Andy try Windy Nation or Temco on Amazon or Ebay for tinned copper ring terminal. Both top quality with flared ends. You can also get complete cable, lugs and heat shrink from Windy Nation which is what I did.
I found a company at the Sunny Coast, they send some over the next day. But thanks for the tip.
I have the same crimper, and used the 25 on my 35mm cables as well.
I bought these from Amazon US, and they are inch , but they do make wide pads lugs.
SELTERM 8 AWG 5/16" Stud (Wide Pad) (25 pcs.) UL Marine Grade Wire Lugs, Battery Cable Ends, Tinned Copper Eyelets, Tubular Ring Terminal Connectors [B8]
When it comes to terminal lugs, I only ever use Cabac. They’re not cheap but dam they’re good!
have the same crimper, it's your lugs that are...... less than ideal ;)
less than ideal... I like that :D
@@OffGridGarageAustralia well i thought about using words that started with sh...
but stayed nice.
i notice your german accent...moved down under long ago ( dutchman here) ?
I've got the same hydraulic-press and everything works fine with the inserts. Please also check the cable... where did you order them? I use the crimper mainly for 35 and 50mm² ... so if there is no production-problem it can be the real cable-size, too.
That's very good welding cable quality, It's just the lugs which are super cheap and thin. I've got better ones now and they work fine (I hope so,,,)
A thought for cutting. A piece of metal pipe same as total diametre of cable use as a sheath around cable in vice not too tight. Then hacksaw gently quicly but with low pressure. Would waste an inch if cable but a socket tight fitted would work?
For cutting the cable, crossing-shear cutters give a nice square end, (not nipping cutters!)
For the bus-bars I bought brass finger-panels for doors, cut to required dimensions.
I've got one of those hydraulic terminal-crimpers; I use the insert that gives the best crimp, then rotate 60 degrees and do it again.
I've noticed quite a few people using brass instead of copper or even the much cheaper aluminum but not sure why. Is is to do with electrolysis or cost or just looks?. Brass being such a poor conductor I don't understand the logic there.
if you two hose clamps to the width of the saw, and you tighten them, your cable stays nicely tailored
Good tip, thanks!
They didn't give you bus bars that can be used for "end to end" connections? Every time I've ordered cells they've provided short bus bars for both "side to side" and longer bus bars for "end to end" connections.
I drew up a quick picture of the cell layout required if you did want to try and use an "end to end" connection at the middle of the pack: photos.app.goo.gl/J41S4ZdW39B3Bvpp7 (The bus bars are represented by the different colored backgrounds)
If you do go with a cable at the middle of the pack, you could put your fuse on that cable as well. (Assuming your BMS allows it, some allow mid-pack fuses, others don't)
On the crimper: It's the cheap terminals from Ebay. I have that exact same hydraulic crimper and I've had the same issues with "cheap" lugs. It's really worth it to pay extra for good quality lugs.
On the wire cutters: I use these: www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/Grinders-Sanders/cable-bolt-cutters/high-leverage-cable-cutters-63050 and they cut through very large cables just fine. Here in the US you can find these at any home improvement store or any electrical supply store. The ones you pulled up online would also work well.
Re: the crimper. You could have asked me. Have the same useless tool and had the same experience with 70mm2, which requires the 50m2 crimper.
Next time I'll ask 😉
When you order the batteries you can order a longer bus bar too.
From China?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia yep that's what I did. Obviously you need to think about your physical layout when ordering batteries.
After cutting with the hacksaw just trim the spread ends with a good set of side cutters. (Before removing the insulation)
A junior hacksaw with a finer TPI cut welding cable without the burr
Did you try using the "good" beveled terminal to bring the wire back to its original size and shape?
There goes the bank account lol 😎👍 Doing a good job
Yeah, it all ads up...
I have the exact same crimping tool, and even using proper branded bevel holed lugs all of the dies are almost a whole size too big! Same as another comment below, 70mm cable lugs crimp perfectly in 50mm dies Nd 25mm cable Crimps perfectly in the 16mm dies!
Hi Andy, keep Tradetools in mind for tools they have some good trade quality gear at reasonable prices. Little drive from your place though.
Cool, thanks. Yeah needed something quick...
I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH BATTERIES, TO MANY DO OVER, LIVE AND LEARN TIMES.
Use better lugs with flared end. The crimp tool will work properly and there will be more “meat” in the terminal for better conduction.
Yep, it's just the lugs.
Your lugs and crimping with the 25mm seems quite adequate for your plans. Check temps with high load just for good measure, but I don't think you have any problem.
Super tight crimp. It will work with this sort of modification. I was just feeling it's not quite correct.
The very thin , cheap terminals are the crimping problem - they are actually quite a bit thinner than standard.
So glad you picked up on the poor quality of the lugs. The CSA of the lug is never the same as the CSA of the cable and you should always go for heavy duty lugs. Also beware of ordering a metric cable size like 35 mm and getting a 2 AWG cable equivalent which is only 33.6mm and you 35 mm lug will be a poor or loose fit.
Thanks Howard. The cable is proper 35mm2. 2/0AWG is more like 33mm2 so bit thinner as you said.
Kabelschere to the rescue!
Is that cutter in the TV antennae area? I was looking at them yesterday, wondering. And whether I should go to Repco(a bit small) or Supercheap.
Do you know about Repco's F1 history?
It's in the Tools section of Bunnings.
that crimper work well if you put the backside of the jaw in the bench vice then rotate your handle up one hand on cable one hand on lever easy cheesy sometimes the back jaw is beveled too much but a grinder makes it nice and flat for the vise jaw firm grip
Thanks for the info
well, I know the feeling, I had to cut an 0/4 cable with a kitchen knife 4 times. it was painful.
Hahaha, how did that go? 😁
Asides from the correct cutting tool your cable looks like a EN 60228 class 5 or 6 finewire cable. So you should use class 5 cable lugs for it. I would suggest Klauke 705F10. If the combination of cable type and lug do not match your crimping tool MUST fail of course.
Thanks for the info!
To cut the cable, use a large sharp kitchen knife, hammer, and block of wood. One sharp pound with the hammer on the back of the knife with the cable on the block of wood will make a very clean cut.
Oh, NOOOOOO! 😂
10:00 300A terminal is better. OT-300A Open-End Copper Crimp Terminal Lugs AWG 4-2/0 Battery Cable Connector
35 is okay just heat it up with a torch and fill it up with rosin core solder wire.
11:48 For the wire cutter hand saw is fine. Just trim the end around 45⁰ angle with a sharp razer or use a dremel cutter wheel.
I use a pencil and paper when trying different things its way cheaper and quicker in the long run.
The proper lug that you showed had a thicker wall to it. I am guessing if you used those, the crimper would work just fine. I think the lugs you are trying to use aren’t up to snuff.
Yep, got better ones now and I'm having a great day again ;)
When try, try again fails the 4th time, good have a couple perfectly calibrated beers and re assess the challenge. Rough days are less forgettable so we can hopefully learn from them,, it happens to the very best of us but all the same,, Sorry for the rough day and I hope the worst of them are behind us both though I feel I may have just jinxed us all. Now I'm afraid to get out of bed tomorrow!
U can cut the cables like me with radial Saw and u can use some eléctrical tipe very tight for keep the cable with same diameter i did dat for 70mm multiwire cable and works pefect
The tape is a good tip. Thanks.
Bolt Cutters or Cut off wheel?
well the crimper does not want to work as intended with those cheap lugs... thats why I always use klauke stuff
You might want to remove your wedding(?) ring. A crowbar short through that ring WILL amputate your finger. I've seen the pictures of that. No rings, no metal watches...even a single plain car battery can throw over 3000 amps into a crowbar short.
I am sure Andy covered his wedding ring with clear varnish otherside he would wear rubber cloves ;o)
Not using a crow bar for my battery stuff. The ring is made of plastic ;)
There was a guy in my lab who couldn't remove his wedding ring for religious reasons. He was given permission to wrap it with medical tape.
@@charlesrichards5389 He could have had one tatooed on, that's also a fad. I wonder what the voltage rating of medical tape is? (G)
@@OffGridGarageAustralia A crowbar short doesn't require a crowbar. Just any similar "zero" resistance tool, like a socket wrench, plier, crowfoot wrench...
Can you just solder them?
Get a pvc pipe cutter at your local diy store for about $US20. They work great on welding cable.
A pruner might work to cut, I think I see one on your peg board. I know this because my wife tries to take my wire cutter into the garden. Lol.
Crimper and lugs are fine. It is ok to squeeze the copper on the sides. You can cut a lug apart to see if it squashed the cable inside.
Put a zip tie around the stripped end about 1/8” from end and cable will go in.
I think I'd solder the ring terminals!
How will the isolation survive that?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia it usually works fine, as long as you don't over heat things!
Hello, is that a bolt that connects two separate crimped wire? I need it on my DIY but i don't know the right term of that tiny tool. thanks
Not sure what you mean with 'two separate crimped wires'.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia The one that looks like a bolt , cant find it on online store :(
@@OffGridGarageAustralia the bolt that you put inside the ring terminal
What time in the video was that? I'm still not sure what...
@@BlazeByte21 Some people use terminal bolts, some use grub screws.
Hammer and chisel. No woodworking with it, afterwards mind, unless you re-sharpen it.
Are you sure it's the copper that's expanded in the wire and not the plastic that's expanded from the heat of the hacksaw cutting?
Maybe try taking the plastic insulation off and seeing if it fits?
You cannot use a saw. I googled it and sawing the coper will 'stray' the ends.
Hello.
I leave a 1 or 2 mm ring of sleave on the wire.
I slide it to the edge of the conductor, so the strings stay together, then, slide the ring back with the connector. the ring can stay on, if the conductor goes deep enough in the connector, ortherwise cut the ring and gain 1 or 2mm.
Solder the connections as I would do. Use a small torch or 100w+ Soldering Gun to sink a little flux and solder into the joint. Military Specs are found on Google. Cheers Guys.
Solder breaks under high current?
The lugs look way too thin ! I got some from a guy eBay and mine where commercial ones way thicker than cheap eBay ones as I had the same thoughts as you.
Hey!
Ich habe meine Kabel mit einem 300w Lötkolben von AliExpress verlötet. Es ist super einfach und hält meiner Meinung nach besser!
Aber nicht vergessen lötfett zu verwenden :)
Angeblich brechen solche Loetverbidnungen nach einiger Zeit weg, wenn hohe Stroeme fliessen.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia das würde mich auch sehr interessieren ob und wenn ja bei wieviel Ampere das passiert.
Hast du ein Schweißgerät?
Du könntest ja ein Kabel verlöten und es als Massekabel anschließen! :)
Use sharp chisel, hammer and wooden block. Alternatively big sharp knife, hammer and wooden block.
Hey at least no blue smoke today lol
Go to electrical store locally and buy there an u will get def...excellen crimp with 35 dies....cable lugs are not worth to go cheap rather spend $ more and u will sleep better....
There is no local electrical store...
Then u really live remote....
@@OffGridGarageAustralia u make great videos...like to wach popcorn time👍
how much money have you put in this by now, included all your extra tools and all
Including the batteries and all stuff, maybe around ~$3k altogether.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thats not to bad
what Gauge wire is this?
2/0AWG or 35mm2
I though you were building an overnight energy storage for your solar panels. So an average night is 12 hours+ (the early morning and late evening are not producing much power), your battery bank is 14 kWh and you are wiring it like if you want to pull 200 amps out of it. Maybe you should reconsider your power usage, run power hungry appliances, washer/dryer, AC, oven during the day and PC, TV, lights at night pulling at most 20 amps from your batteries. Also keep in mind you may have a few cloudy days in a row, so build your storage large enough to deal with it.
New to the channel? I explained what the system is for...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Maybe not from your first post but I was in the understanding that you where building an off grid solar home. I could be wrong, I see you charging batteries from PC power supply running off the grid, for testing its clearly the best way. Yes I wonder what's your final goal. Pulling 200 amps from a 280 AMPS battery look like a surge power supply, like the Australian power regulation. Yes I wonder what is your goal.
Don,t use a hack saw, use a cable cutter does a much nicer job. To get ride of the wings on your crimp rotate the ring terminal and crimp a second time.
Isn't it just fun?😅
I'm taking a cooler, and building a portable power station, with 12v lifepo4 batteries, bms, 1000 watt pure sine wave inverter, solar charge controller, and some cooling fans. It'll plug into a 260 watt tilting solar array for charging.
U can used a pvc pipe cutter
It will cut through the copper?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes, very cleanly
Oh well, least you did not short out the battery pack and have a fire and explosion.
I feel your pain, it always seems like there is one thing holding up the project. Make sure to use UL Listed lugs. I have used Taukealugs from Amazon and they work well.
Great point!
1/2 INCH COPPER PIPE SMASHED FLAT, AND CUT TO LENGTH AND DRILL HOLES. BETTER THAN THE SUPPLIED BUSBARS
Better or different?
I don't think so. Google: galvanic corrosion aluminium copper. The supplied busbars have nickel plating to prevent that.
@@mrzed6597 Agreed. Smashed copper pipe will certainly work, but the nickel plating is ideal to prevent corrosion.
@@mrzed6597 So use nickel plated washers.
Just use the saw to cut cable, strip isolation.... Take peace of electrical tape en fold together lengthwise with the sticky side together. Use this to wind firmly over the bare wire and leave just enough to start placing the connector, after that while putting on connector at same time unravel the tape. Even if you have a wire cutter, sometimes while stripping the copper spreads and when you use this trick it will save a lot of trouble
You can also use thin string or anything else. Basicly you reverse the spreading of the wire strands like this
The thickness of the metal in the lug, will affect the die size you need. There are apparently no standards, so the brand name companies say to use their matching lugs and tools. Nice, huh?
Yep, what a s**t when you think, you have everything here... and nothing works
Use your large soldering iron or gun to heat and fill with solder after crimp to ensure PERMANENT connection at lugs. Pain in arse but you only have to do it once and no chance of corrosion causing a high resistance connection over time.
A correctly done crimp creates a cold weld between the wire and the connector and will out last a crimp and solder connector. Thats why commercial and professional connectors are crimped.
Same problems with that crimper. Either go one smaller die or put a ferrule on the wire. Perhaps it was designed to "Anglo" crimp spec not actual Chinese lugs.
Use a proper cable cutter not a hacksaw. Bunnings 14mm cable cutter for 35mm2 cable - no way. You just have to pay for the correct stuff even though you only use it once.
Try a zig-zag arrangement.
try twisting the cable before you buy a cable cutter....
Not where I used to work. The copper loses its temper and you create a weak spot. It's the beginning of fatigue.
- Use Selterm Tinned LUGS and you will never have issues.
selterm.com/pages/battery-cable-lugs
- Open ended lugs are NOT a good idea, it IS an invitation for corrosion over time.
- Always put Heat Shrink over the cable and the lug barrel. Adhesive type shrink is best.
- Use a Proper Wire Cutter ONLY. Even a Big Cable / Bolt cutter will work well if used carefully.
- Why did you not use the battery setup & layout diagrams as provided all over the DIYSolarForum ? Would have saved you a couple of hours of puzzle playing.
* HANDY FOR EVERYONE: diysolarforum.com/resources/luyuan-tech-basic-lifepo4-guide.151/download
Alternately, here is a 16S "Block" Pack Diagram: imgur.com/7ZSILYk
The Hydraulic Crimper:
There are Metric Dies & AWG Dies ! Many people DO NOT REALIZE THIS and it can create issues if using the wrong sized dies. Having a slight "ridge" as you showed post-compression with the smaller Die is not unexpected, this is also not a serious problem but you do have to have Shrink Wrap over the interface of the cable & lug.
NOTA BENE:
When you look at the Selterm Site, you will see Metric & AWG Lugs & Connectors. Note the slight variances between them. Then if you look at Cable Manufacturers such as SouthWire's Royal Excelene you will see some difference as well. See thickness, strands, sheathing etc.
Royal® SUPER EXCELENE ® WELDING CABLE UL
www.industrial.southwire.com/en/tile/10/spec/70300/?country=CA
Royal® EXCELENE ® NON-UL WELDING CABLE
www.industrial.southwire.com/en/tile/10/spec/70305/?country=CA
Then compare to Metric Sized cables (Southwire provides the mm thickness in their listings).
Hope this is helpful to you and all of your channel viewers.
use studs!!!
Knipex wire rope cutter
Maybe that is against diy rules, but i buy those cables at Amazon.... sorry for this
just use AXE ;)
😲