Simple and PRECISE mount balancing! With the power of electricity!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- One of my subscribers, Mehdi, suggested this amazing method of precise mount balancing using the power of contactless power measurement! I tried it for the first time, and wow, it works! It's amazing!
Let's have a look at it together!
And if you have any suggestions, please let me know down in the comments!
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So, to East-Heavy or not to East-Heavy?? That seems to be the question! Hey, I may want to do a follow up video on that!
As many are mentioning, keeping the mount East-heavy (e.g. for me, when I stand behind the mount facing Polaris, it means I want to keep the the part of the payload that is to the right of the mount slightly heavier - either scope or CW, depending on which side of the Meridian my current target is), can be a way to counter worm-gear RA backlash! With worm-gear backlash, with perfect balance, your scope could "float" between one gear tooth and the other, hurting guiding. The reason it is East-heavy and not West-heavy is that because of the rotation direction of the mount from East to West, by being East heavy the heavy part is always being pushed, nothing floats, and trumpets of victory will resound throughout the night! Success!
OK, so what about Meridian Flip? With an East heavy setup prior to flip, we then get a West-heavy setup after the flip - so with the rotation of the mount, at each moment the West side of the payload is "falling" down to the gear tooth (rather than being pushed!), which is not great for guiding! Some people have managed to keep things East heavy automatically even after a flip though, or so I've heard - I will investigate that.
How to solve that? Well, for me, in practice, almost perfect balance along with no RA worm-gear backlash (tuned in a previous video :D), along with the stiffness of the EQ6R RA axis (not super stiff, but slightly - almost impossible for that thing to float), means that in effect, I never got any floating between worm and gear that I could see negative results from. It could be just me! My seeing is constantly terrible, so guiding results may simply hide that as noise.
So, what should YOU do? Well... Always image on the same side of the Meridian and be East Heavy? :) You know what, this has gotten long. I will make a video on this :D
'Always image on the same side of the Meridian and be East Heavy'. Absolutely, why not. who wants to do a flip anyways :) I have never done one, its far to hap hazard. hehehe
I must add, I have had about 5 scotch and cokes so far :), and Meridian flips are not my friend right now. Seriously thou. I do get your point Cuiv and it is truly valid for sure, However no backlash at all is an impossibility even for Dr Cuiv. So unless some wise guy invents a true servo magnetic floating motor mount (Pat' Pend), I'm sticking with the pre-load and don't do the flip thing and keep my 0.5 RMS . I barely get 4 hours as it is so no need to complicate things. :)
I need to be east heavy when working with my cheap star tracker. I start with a small magnet weight on the end of the counter shaft and take it off after a meridian flip. Thankfully my Eq6 does not seem to care and I just try for perfect balance.
Cuiv, The Lazy Geek I read some folk shift the balance slightly after the flip and resync the scope to correct for the backlash. Your method would still work, just need to make sure current consumption in one direction is slightly more than the other 👍
Makes sense! I hate losing that much zenith time by choosing not to flip... the hour before flip and the one after that give me my best SNR, so then I have this conendrum: good balance? Or East heavy -> West heavy? No way I'm waking up to adjust that post-flip :D
Well i'm really flattered ! nice Video Cuiv . you get it perfectly ! i'm happy you found it so fun . Cheers from a lazy geek to an other lazy geek :)
Thanks a lot again Mehdi, that method is awesome!
Thank you very much Mehdi and Cuiv.
You are lifesavers!
I now have a great technique for my mounts.
Thats cool. If i was a manufacturer i would have this built into my mount. As a series of led lights on the mount or maybe an indicator on the controller.
Apparently the 10Micron mounts have something like this in there! And yes I had heard of something like this for iOptron, I didn't realize it had actually been done!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek apparently, at least on the AZEQ6, there is a menu where you could ask it to display the voltage (it refreshes every secs or so). What we really need is for it to display the amperage :)
I love the way you get so excited about this gadget... now I need one 😆
I am indeed a geek, I get excited by gadgets :D Buy one!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek yes well...I did.. :D
Excellent idea! Especially for sticky AVX mounts! Thanks!
This is an amazing hack and I love your enthusiasm
It is so much fun to watch someone learn something and at the same time everyone who is watch is learning how much fun it is to learn something new. Thanks for the Vid, they all are very good and useful.
This method is just simply brilliant - going to invest in one of those. Couldn’t stop laughing at your reaction.
I was so amazed it actually worked! Of course as others have mentioned, people may want to then go slightly east heavy, but it gives a good point of reference!
I have to giggle watching you have so much fun.😊
Hehehe it was a lot of fun! :D
Clamp meters are magic, I hadn't thought of using current to measure balance, Genius! Cheers man
They are! You can also measure binding of the gears with a clamp meter, as the motor will require more power then :-)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek very good point!
Just brilliant. Thanks to Cuiv and Mehdi !
Thanks to Mehdi really :D
FYI - comment section of your vids is the most friendly space on the internet! Thank you for the tips and tricks. I just ordered a clamp meter! :D
This is a very interesting video. I never thought of this approach to balancing a mount but it makes perfect sense to me now that I’ve seen it.
this is a great method. I have a CGX mount that is quite stiff on the Dec, which this will work great. I will be using this tomorrow. Thanks to whoever shared this, including Cuiv
Good luck, I hope it works for you! Trying out new stuff is always fun!
With all the kludging I do, I can't believe I didn't even consider this. Brilliant, and hats off to you sir.
Glad it was helpful! It wasn't my idea, but what a great idea it was!
This is brilliant! I have that stifness issue with my HEQ5 and balancing is alway a bit of guess work. gonna try this
I hope it will work for you!
First time visitor, new subscriber! Somebody commented about this video on my stream and I just watched it. I LOVE IT! Well done! I can not wait to try this myself. Your enthusiasm is contagious! I'm about to go split some wires myself! Clear skies from Georgia, USA!
Welcome Amy! I have been watching videos on your channel and drooling over your setup :D Love the videos as well, and glad to see you here! Enjoy the clamp ampmeter :) I have family in Roma, GA btw so I've been there quite a few times, I love the area!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Wow it truly is a very small world! Give me a yell when you are back in the area.
@@AmyAstro Definitely will do!
Good information! I've used a similar method when adjusting the worm gears of my EQ6. In this case I've used a current clamp with analog output and an oscilloscope to take a close look at the current drawn by the motors. As soon as one of the gears starts binding or the tension on the bearings is to high, the current rises ever so slightly.
You're going even deeper with your method, thank you!
I have to thank you! 🙂
The AR axis of my CGEM has always been more stuck to East than to West making it difficult to balance for both sides.
I was always worried if the engine would put in more effort when I shoot for East then for West. Thanks to the method presented, I was able to find the perfect balance and confirm the effort of the engine for both sides.
Thank you very much my friend.
Paulo from Portugal
Excellent to hear Paulo, I'm very glad it worked well for you!
Its a nice surprise when you have a TIP like this ... specially when you are a spark (me) !!! So clever and simply idea !!... i will add a small digital DC current device in line with the power supply for the mount... sounds like a plan for me !!! Thanks again amigo !!!
Glad you liked it, I hope it works well for you!
I love your enthusiasm in this video (not to mention any of your other videos lol)
Excellent video
Great idea. A small current meter on the power supply should be good enough to achieve the same thing.
Absolutely, and would actually probably be better! I really liked this approach as it is really a no touch type of approach! I will look into having an inline current meter was well!
Great, now I have to buy a current sensing multimeter. Fantastic video, I love it!
Hehe, I like forcing people to buy new stuff :D
Brilliant way to balance! As some one already wrote, it should be built into the mount. I have an Atlas pro and I have exactly that problem (actually stiff Dec). So today I used the Pegasus Pocket Powerbox software to properly balance the Dec. Great video as usual!
Oh, the Powerbox measures that as well? That's great! Thank you!
Yes, it does but not so precise as your method, it shows only decimal (I think it’s called) for example 1.2, 1.3 and not 1.23 like your method. I will send a mail to Evangelos at Pegasus to ask if the software could measure more precisely.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Nope it does not,it just tell you the power consumption of 2amp that's it.
Really glad, that I found your chanel.... shame on TH-cam suggesting me this so late.... Keep up the great work and greets from Austria :)))
Welcome to the channel! (And spread the word :p) . This is such an international channel, thanks for watching! My paraglider is made in Austria, and I hope to go and fly there one day!
I've watched a lot of your videos, mostly about NINA - thanks a lot - you have been MOST helpful! I have one of those Avalon M-Uno mounts that you mentioned as being completely belt-driven, a Celestron Edge HD 9.25 and a Primaluce Eagle 3Q PC unit on the DEC axis. The Eagle shows the A (current) used on each port/power outlet so I should be able to read the current used directly. I'll try it and let you know if it works! It looks like a great way of obtaining accurate balancing (which is actually what I want for my mount - so no deliberate weighting).
Would be awesome if it worked directly with the Eagle! I had considered that unit, but was very worried about the proprietary cables!
Seems like a good way to balance mounts like AZ-GTI where the axis are stiff even unclutched
It definitely is! But for the AZ-GTI, with the spring loaded mechanism, you will definitely want to be East-Heavy! So find the best point of balance with this method, then slide the counterweights a little bit!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Yeah definitely, Waiting for that long-expected video on your channel when you finally had a none defective AZ-GTI in your hand to test it out and fine-tune it a bit!
That’s exactly why I went out and bought a clip meter yesterday! Why the AZ-GTI is so darned stiff bears me.
thanks to Mehdi excellent idea !!
Indeed!
Loved too!
Cuiv, very clever and super cool and lazy way to better adjust balance, but proof is in the how the stars look, as the way was to be east heavy ( I think it was East maybe West)a tad so the gears had a bit of weight on them. I will try this on my AZGTi and see as I just finished doing a small hypertune to the RA and now turns easy and smooth. Thank you and Mehdi!
Oh I'd be very interested in your AZGTi hypertune - I ended up completely ignoring the spring mechanism in RA on that mount, it's just too weak. Do you have any pictures or description of your method? And you are right, East-heavy is typically better (but what about after the flip?!)
Great experiment.
Absolutely clever! This is something the mount producers could easily and efficiently integrate in the mount itself with an in-line amperometer.
Absolutely!!! I wish they did it... Easy balancing.
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Actually, they produce this: Prologik Balance Meter is exactly the tool! 60£.
I added an inline meter to my power cable. Shows voltage and current and only cost couple of £ off Ebay. Added it to monitor loading and battery supply but now found another use thanks to your video 👍
That sounds excellent, probably more precise too, and cheaper as well! Hope it will work well for you!
Hi Cuiv,
Your enthusiasm is so communicative! Thanks for this brillant moment of so clever applied physics, rather than "pure magic". As a lazy physicist, I would say you are measuring the magnetic field generated by the displacement of electrons in your wire: the less balanced, the more power consumption and current, then the more electrons generating such a field to measure. The challenge is thus to approach a null difference in both directions of a given axis.
If you have one, put a compass very close to your wire. The needle will move while applying a movement to your mount, revealing that little magnetic field...
I look forward to check my own EQ6 R Pro that way!
Clear skies,
JB
Ooooh right, that makes a lot of sense, thank you Jean-Baptiste! And so coiling the wire around that clamp would make that magnetic field stronger and thus measurement more precise, as others have mentioned. I'll try the compass too, thanks!
Guess what I want for Christmas? 😂 Great video 👍🏻
Richard belgium : excellent and so simple...obvious...will try this since balancing my AZEQ6 GOTO is not an easy task...
Several people have mentioned how hard it is to balance the AZEQ6... brrr, that clutch system is great, but it could be tuned to have less stiff axes! (At least that was the case for my AZEQ5)
Great video! I always struggle to balance my small scope on the eq6, hopefully this will help. I love your enthusiasm!
Thanks Spooky Donkey (awesome nickname!), I hope this will work for you! Also check my comment about whether or how to strategically unbalance your mount!
Last night i went out with my scope after i did your method for balancing the scope inside my house. First i balanced my scope on my eq6-r as i usually do and then i used the clamp meter to fine tune the balance. I marked the balance points and went out for some tests. I polar aligned the mount with my polemaster and started guiding with phd2. BOY was i surprised, the guiding error was at 0.3'' with rc 8'' and before it was 0.8''. So yes, this method is sound.
That is awesome! I'm so glad it's helping you! So you didn't need to be East-heavy for your EQ6R? My own EQ6R seems to agree with that as well. Glad it was helpful!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek well my mount is still under warantee and i don't want to mess with it yet but the axes are stiff from the factory and it is difficult to balance the scope. With this method the mount performs as it should be. Also for those interested they could try the pegasus power box as it has inbuilt power (amperage) and voltage measurement of the power input but i am not sure for the refresh rate of the monitoring so if you have one of those you could give it atry
@@CuivTheLazyGeek i don't east-hevay my mount since i haven't seen any difference form east-heavy and perfect ballance (from when i used my hyper-tubed heq5-pro) Also since the eq6-r is still new and has stiff axes i see no reason to off-balance the mount since the gears will be meshed (even though they may be badly meshed, and i will do a proper srvice after the waranty is over)
Nice! I'm definitely going to have to try this out as I've been struggling with my RA guiding.
What kinds of symptoms do you have? You likely want the mount to be East-heavy, but it could be something else with the mount... Good luck!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek The RA seems to be over correcting sometimes, although last night it was guiding fantastically so who knows. I use an 8" newt on an HEQ5 and I know I'm pushing that mount's weight limit for astrophotography. Hoping to do the belt mod in the future.
This method can be rewritten as an exam questions for physics to test the student's assimilation of knowledge
Wow something new to learn :D thanks you so much! appreciate yr hard work!
My pleasure Kokoro-san! This hobby is an endless learning opportunity!
Thanksss, good approach.
Another excellent video. These videos should carry a WEALTH Warning - following the good advice will cost 30 bucks+ - but probably worth it. A mount like the EQ6-R Pro doesn't provide a critical balance (to me, not as bad as some but also not as critical as others). So this method is an (instant) winner. I get it, I bought the (same) clamp too! Simon.
Great video. Thanks. This method works great with my AVX.
Excellent!!!!!!!!!
DEC is front heavy because you left the dust cap on the front of the scope.
I’ve always wanted an excuse to buy a clamp meter. Thanks!
There you have it :D
Omg this is incredible! My mount seems to be a bit stiff on the RA with my super light OTA (camera lens 😂) so I'm gonna try that for sure!!
I got lazy and did not look more than a dozen or so comments to see if anyone replied. Maybe this will help with explanation: Amperage = "Push" Brilliant vid, btw, Cuiv.
Thanks Angus, and being lazy is good ;)
It’s fantabulous method Cuiv....👍🏽
I love it - thanks to Mehdi for introducing it to me!
This is a GREAT idea!!
It is indeed! An inline ampmeter is also something that would work quite well.
Great video Cuiv. I've seen comments about making the Eastside slightly heavier for years but then others say no. I balance my Dec and RA. I will state though that my phd2 guiding is better when my target is westerly. I read your comment about after meridian flip how the falling down to the gear would not be ideal. I'll have to try it slightly heavier on the East side before and after the flip to see if that makes the East side tracking better and how that affects (if any) after meridian flip.
I will be interested in hearing your conclusions. For now I've tried East-heavy and perfectly balanced and couldn't really see a difference ... but it could simply be my usual terrible seeing making it hard to see the difference...
It is interesting to monitor the amps during slewing. Your video made me think to monitor my Pegasus Astro Power Box Advance which has voltage and amperage monitoring in its software. It monitors to the tenth of an amp and definitely lets you know if the motors work harder in one direction or the other. Good stuff! I definitely go heavy on the (Dec) primary side of my Newtonian. My decision gets harder on the RA side if my target is still happening after the meridian flip. I go East heavy and cross my fingers and toes after the target passes the meridian. It’s too bad there isn’t an automated weight shifting thing a ma jig to shift the counter weights. My mount is an older Celestron Advanced GT and it is Sloppy. Love your videos!
I keep cumin across your tips, Cheers.
Genius Cuiv🙌🏼
Such a simple but brilliant idea.. not my idea though :D
Great video mate.
Thanks 👍
Hello Cuiv. I am more or less able to achieve balance but i feel like i need to try this method to really try fine tuning the balance. Surely this must help towards better guiding. Thanks. I will look for this type of meter.
At worst it's a fun time with a device that can have other uses!
A good solution for sticky RA & Dec Axis's especially for Skywatcher mounts which is a common problem. Best solution is to Hypertune your mount, including replacing all bearings with high end ceramic ones, Synta mount bearing are low end.
Thanks for the feedback! On my AZEQ5, I tuned and regreased the whole RA axis, and yes, the bearings were not of the highest possible quality! Still it wasn't as bad as I feared, and a non-sticky grease seemed to be applied properly, if a bit heavily.
Great and helpful video.
"Current", that's the name of the magic field that excites the amps faeries in the Continuum Transfunctioner :-). Instead of Hall effect clamp, it might be cheaper, more accurate and simpler to buy an in-line amp-meter and plug it between the mount and the battery. That would probably be about $10 ($1.50 if you skip the importer's racket and order directly from Aliexpress), smaller and could be duct taped to the mount. If you spend a bit more money, you could even plug it into a computer and make a program that would calculate the relative position of the center of gravity vs center of rotation by sampling the current in both direction at different RA and DEC angles.
Ooooh so many possibilities! Now I'll have to think about a lot of things :D
Thanks for the tip, very useful! Unfortunately it does not work for my mount - the amp stays the same no matter how "unbalanced" the mount is. I think it's due to the mount/motor design....
the same happens to my HEQ5
Great video man! Btw "current" is the magic :-). In the past, you couldn't measure DC current with the usual multimeter. Many clamp multimeters can only measure AC current, as they just use what is called a current transformer. But even the cheap ones nowadays use half effect devices to measure current, and so can measure AC or DC current. Not sure which model you have but it's probably a good idea to put the meter in position and zero it out just before measuring DC current, to compensate for the Earth’s magnetic field and any nearby magnetized objects. An inline DC current meter attached to the mount might also be useful.
Current :D Thank you! Right that makes sense, I hadn't noticed that function to set the zero, like on a scale. Thanks for the tip! And yes inline DC current meter is the next logical step!
You can multiply the reading by looping the conductor through the loop a few times, in case 2 decimal places isn't good enough.
Yes, that works great too, thanks for the feedback!
Hi Cuiv, thanks for all your videos. I liked this method for balancing the mount... By the way, in your last video you explained how to remove backlash from the declineson axis. Can't we unbalance a bit this axis to be sure that the gear's tooth are always in contact on the same side? Like this, you should be able to cancel the effect of backlash...
You are absolutely right, and many comments are mentioning this - keeping the mount balance East-heavy (you can check my pinned comment for more details). The main problem is the Meridian flip!
Brilliant!!
Just modified my powerpack with an ammeter to try this out!
That's the epitome of cool :) I hope it works out well!
ALso, FYI. they make devices you can just plug your mount into and it will measure the watts,volts and amps being used live time.. for any device plugged into it..
Brilliant!
Yes! Such a cool method!
I have this built in on my GM2000 HPS II Mount it uses the absolute encoders to measure the balance it’s done automatically I just hit enter each time
That sounds like a dream :) It's an expensive dream, but a dream nonetheless!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I just kept putting the money away the the CEM-120 i had and all the problems with it
and to top it off once you have found the balance point make permanent marks on the mount/scope dovetail/counterweight bar so you won't have to do this process again
Exactly! I can choose to be East-Heavy, or perfectly balanced anytime I like!
Very Cool!
Indeed :D
Wow! 😲 Never have heard of this magic before... 🙏 but isn’t there this recommendation to slightly imbalance towards east?
Exactly what I was going to ask, thanks Mathias.
g.
If your doing a meridian flip it's better not to be east heavy.
Yes, exactly. It can depend on the mount design. My Losmandy Titan prefers east heavy. At least with this trip you could measure how much weight offset you require and it would be repeatable.
Yes I was so amazed that it's actually working! And you are right Mathias - and geert (and many other comments pointing out the same), and I have added a comment about this. I think it will always be better to be east heavy on a mount that displays any significant backlash or play in RA - even if it means being West-heavy after a flip, I guess it's better than floating (not completely sure though - I would need to test it out!). At any rate, the perfect mount balance can be found with this method, and then a very slight East-Heavy can be accomplished easily!
If your mount is stiff, it means the bearings are too tight. Those mounts manufactured in China don't go thru QC before leaving the manufacturer and the tightness of the bearings depends on the mood of the worker on the assembly line that day... You have to do that yourself. Once it is done, your mount will move freely and it is night and day for balancing and guiding.
Yes indeed! I haven't had the will to open my EQ6R to fix that, as the stiffness is quite light. Maybe one day I'll get it done!
I have however tuned the RA axis of my AZEQ5, so there is only very slight stiffness in RA, and it seems to be working quite well!
The phrase you were looking for was 'current draw' :)
Thank you!
I had purchased a clamp meter last year for my new solar off-grid system and it is not in use ever since I took the first few readings. I was regretting, why I purchased it all this while.
Looks like my clamp meter now has a job.
Hehee clamps can have hidden uses :)
Hi Cuiv! I use an EQ-5 Pro which uses one thick cable for RA and one thick cable for DEC. How can I test + or - individually? Can I simply remove a piece of the outer sleeve of a cable and find two cables in there which I can separate to measure the amperes? I don’t want to ruïn my new cables, but I’m dying to find out, since I already own a clamp-meter with ac/dc function. Please advise me, because I couldn’t find the answer in these many comments. Love your enthousiasm each and every time ;-)
Hmm all that talk about meridian flips, i sense a new video is coming... I don't have many issues with the meridian flip, most of the time my guiding improves a bit after flipping, but it isn't bad before the flip. One could argue that imaging on both sides of the meridian is better for the global SNR in the stacked image, no ?
Yes, imaging on both sides of the meridian allows to capture more of the target when it is near its max altitude. In dark areas it doesn't make that huge of a difference, but in Tokyo the difference is massive, and I want to maximize the max altitude capture time...
you can use the same method to adjust the backlash and avoid binding
Excellent idea!! I just did this for my DEC axis, to find any areas of binding, thanks for the tip!
question about balance and unbalanced loads-
Had some friends over a month or so ago. Balanced the scope with their camera riding piggyback.
Shot until 1 or 2AM.
When they left I put my camera on the back of my scope (forgetting the weight difference between their camera and mine - with my lens adding most of the weight).
My EQ6-Pro essentially rolled over - from my camera sitting on top to sitting below the telescope.
I have used my scope a few times since then and I do not think that it damaged anything but I am curious about your thoughts on this.
That is such a simple and yet beautiful way. Thank you so much. I have the problem that my EQ5 is very stiff. I will try it out. Do you mean Medhi aka Mr.Boom here on YT?!
No, not Mr.Boom :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek But he would be someone who would come up with such an idea. I will get my measuring device today and then I will try it.
The resolution of these meters is not great in terms of the measured loads. You can improve the sensitivity by wrapping the wire through the clamp a number of times. N turns increases sensitivity by N times
Nice! Thanks for the tip! That's pretty cool... In the end, using rate 7 it worked pretty well, but I'll try that next time!
I suffer from my counterwieghts slipping down when I lock them. The on,y way to stop slipping was using duct tape below the weight. How can I avoid the slipping. I do tighten them very well but cannnot avoid slippage; it is same SW eq6r pro lik e yours.
Huh, this is not something I ever had... Counterweights slipping sounds very bad. Duct take below the weight sounds good, but I'm wondering whether your counterweight shaft may have been poorly manufactured? You may want to contact Skywatcher on that...
Cuiv, The Lazy Geek tks Cuiv.. time to fix it then.
another trick to maintain the position of the CW and avoid CW slipping (during imaging, believe me, it happens :D) if you don't change your imaging setup: there is a hole on the CW shaft, if you lock the set screw of the bottom CW to that hole, then slide all the remaining CWs on top of the bottom, then push the CW shaft in or pull it out to find the perfect balance position. After the that, just lock the shaft, you won't need to find the balance again next time, just lock the bottom CW to the same hole on the CW shaft :D
Oh, that's an excellent idea! I haven't had such a slip yet, but others have asked me about it! I would then be worried about the CW bar stopper bolt having to hold the weight of all the CWs though... I think I'll test this out, thanks for the tip!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek youtube didn't notify me when you replied :D. You still can use the stopper bolt on each CW to secure it to the CW shaft as you used to, but it won't be able to slip down during the night. The CW bolt is quite strong actually, I stacked both CWs without issues. I set up and tear down my imaging rig for every session, it's very frustrated in the first year in this hobby because it didn't know the trick, but I can start imaging just 15 minutes after setting up the tripod now. I actually haven't seen anyone applying the trick :D.
An old video I know, but can I ask How do you know that the extra energy used is not due to any stiction in the mount, rather than out of balance…?
The word you're looking is "current" 😊
What if you cant split the power cable?? Will it still work??
Hé cuiv, i tried this method. It is surely a lot of fun to do😄. It improved the guiding from around 1.1 RMS to 0.9 RMS on me HEQ5.
Do you use PEC on your EQ6? If so, can you do a video on how to do the PEC training and set it up in EQMOD?
I haven't used it recently, but doing a video on PEC is in the plans!
Sound would work too but you would have to put your ear up close to the motor
Yep, and have good ears :) Is the motor stressed more now? I think it would be quite difficult.
Astrobloke did a video using a very expensive box with the same principle.
As a diy, I wonder how this idea arose.
I hear whine of stepper motors. Unless in tracking mode for stars or Renishaw high resolution encoder, why would current change?
If you stall a stepper the driver circuit is well messed up, but the whole point of balancing is to prevent damage to gears. Before you try and drive telescope!
If mount is too stiff to balance then find out why and fix that first. They are expensive bearings in commercial products. That ammeter reading is hardly detecting a very out of balance set up.
With my massive diy mount 6"x2" Timkin roller 3" ID, I would expect a few grams on scope to cause a detectable rotation. With autoguiding, it is no longer the case that 'smoothness' should be provided by thick grease. Like 'Kilopoise', or farm barn door runners silica fillers. As still used in binocular focusing eyepiece tubes.
Any instrument that doesn't have a screw thread for adjustment, in this case counterweights, is not 'precision'.
Look at any professional observatory in a book.
Of course you can always go out and buy some more ....and more... Which is what all these TH-cam channels are about apart from pulling weird faces for their monetised video thumbnails.
You've done some great straight forward instructional stuff and imaging from a city.
I use Anderson powerpoles for all my 12VDC (I dislike the cigarette lighter plugs) and have always an inline voltmeter/ammeter hadn't thought of this use. My AZEQ6 is a bit on the stiff side . Clamp meters aren't that accurate either.
I am also using the Anderson powerpole connectors for my AZEQ6. Like you, I've always have a watt meter hookup up between my power supply and mount. I've been using this method Cuiv described above for a few years now to balance my mount. The AZEQ6 is horrible in terms of trying to balance the mount freely/manually. This is due the type of bearings it used internally as well the clutch system it has (which uses friction pads similar to the brake pads in your car). Those friction pads always engage the friction discs which adds lots of resistance when u try to free spin the axis. Now, the beauty of this clutch system is far superior than the ones that's used in most other amateur mounts; which is basically a small brass button holding the entire load! Once u engage the clutch on the AZEQ6, nothing moves as it's like a vehicle brake system!
In my watt meter, I could always see the amp draw so using what Cuiv have described above, I could always get the mount to reasonably balanced.
@@ag538 Hi,
I was going to try to 'Supertune' the AZEQ6 not sure it will be a whole lot better, I will try the current balance method and see how it goes, Not a fan of the clutches particularly the RA feel like I'm going t break it ,the DEC is ok though squeaks a bit when slewing.
I guess its nice to know the clutches don't slip easily at least
Interesting to hear - so the clutch system is then the same as the AZEQ5 - it is possible to actually make it much smoother with the clutch disengaged, but it's a bit of an involved process. The problem with the AZEQ5 is that adjusting backlash will push the gear itself onto the shaft to some extent, which will make the axis a slight bit stiffer. It's all about finding the right balance between the least backlash, while still having a reasonable smoothness in the axis. I assume it would be similar with the AZEQ6!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek
Haven't tried adjusting the AZEQ6 but think it is similar the the AZEQ5 actually thought about the lighter mount the AZEQ6 is quite heavy to move about no permanent position, I leave it on the tripod and have the extension tube as well. Watched you adjusting the mount seemed easy enough.
@@vk2np I have taken the AZEQ6 apart a few times now. I've even tried to put in less grease in the thrust needle roller bearing and taper roller bearing; the result is still the same. The mount just won't spin freely like other mounts I've used in the past (such as a Celestron CGEM). It's the large friction clutch pad that's always in contact with the clutch rotor that caused the friction. The RA and Dec use the same clutch system so it'll be pretty difficult to actually break the RA clutch :) The contact area for the clutch in this mount is huge (many square inches!) compared to most other consumer mounts out there where the contact point is the size of your pinky finger nail (less than 1 square cm).
If you have a Pegasus Astro power box you can see the power consumption within the app.
Nope,Power box have nothing to do with what Cuiv explain in this video.The Power box it just show you the constant 2amp power consumption that's it.
Davide Mancini Err, not quite mate. I would suggest you read the manual again. If has built in power, voltage monitors. pegasusastro.com/products/ultimate-powerbox/ connect a dew heater and watch the displayed chart as more current is consumed! Take a load of and watch the consumption go down.
Krellon ops sorry mate i thought was the power pocket advance
Davide Mancini No worries mate, I could have been a bit more clear in my original message 👍😊. Br.
I saw a comment on that, this is awesome! It makes me want to get one even more...!
Great video. I’m off to buy a clamp meter. One question. How do I know which wire is for dec and RA?
shouldn't matter, the electricity powers both, thru both cables.
What results do you get if you try the experiment near the zenith? Or at angles in between the horizon and zenith?
ac or ac/dc clamp meter? the lattere is more expensive.
Cuiv, what model of the clamp meter did you use? The one I have has a poor resolution (0.1A DC), which is not enough to balance the mount precisely. And the one that have better resolution cost >$300.
My particular clamp meter is the Kaiweets HT206D - you could try wrapping the line several times, that should increase the measured signal, and then your meter might work. I hope you can find some cheap ones!
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks, adding loops helped.
What was the name and model # of the AC/DC meter that you used?
Clever
Indeed! It wasn't my idea :D
Nice idea, did it improve your tracking?
Holy crap that’s genius. Obvious when you think about it 🤦♂️.
I was so impressed with the simplicity of this trick :)