that is an excellent point for some reason Mike Smith is like this forgotten person when it comes to talking about the Blackhawk success. I’m not really sure why it’s just kind of how it is a Mendel talented really good asset management, but Mike Smith just had some really good drafts.
@@bradwiszowaty9573 Bowman has every right to claim credit for the 2013 and 2015 Cup teams. Those were his, not Tallon's. Dale was the reason they were up against the cap after the 2010 win, and which forced Bowman to gut the roster. Stan was at least smart enough to know who to hang onto, and who to let go. He brought in the right rentals for those last two Cups, as well.
Thanks for this nice little recap/team history. I became a fan of the Blackhawks in 2007 after Bill Wirtz passed away and the television blackout ended when his son took over the team. Nicely done and very informative. Thanks
As a life long Blackhawks fan that used to watch Hull, Makita & Esposito, it is really refreshing to see the current GM build from the ground up with young talent. The frustration of the Bill Wirtz half hearted ownership was terrible. So many teams that were almost, but couldn't get there. Careers wasted with a team whose ownership didn't care about winning it all. I am looking forward to seeing the young core of talent that they put together and watching it grow. It reminds me of the 1980 US Olympic team where there was more focus on teamwork than individual accomplishments. I am hoping that this is the case. I could be wrong, but I saw some sparks of the future in some of the young players this year, especially towards the end of the season. Bedard should also make it exciting. The young players have a great opportunity to step up and gel together. I am optimistic. Only time will tell. Thanks for the great video, Shannon. As always you are appreciated for your hard work and thorough analysis.
i’d love a look at how tampa put together their roster. with the way they keep getting hits in not only late round drafts, but trades and few agent signings as well, there’s no reason to believe they’ll be slowing down any time soon. that’s how you build sustainable success. yea there’s a few very high draft pick in there (stammer and heddy) but look at the team around them. no one on earth expected Kuch to become the world beater that we know him now as. smart drafting is the foundation like you said. you don’t need a 1st overall every year and it’s not like every 1st pans out like we expect them too anyways.
it's because the players they drafted cost less which gave tampa cap flexibility to sign more talent, that's the main point of why teams with more top 5 picks fail than with teams that have less top 5 players win more and become successful.
Jukka Jalonen: Olympics gold and bronze (2022, 2010), Skoda-cup three golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze (2022, 2019, 2011, 2021, 2008) U20 gold 2016. And no real interest because Suhonen didn't get sucky Hawks to playoffs.
Proper drafting, proper signing, and proper trading are the main keys to building a successful team. A team won't be successful if they spend a big chunk of their cap hit on a small group of players who overvalue themselves, then struggle to get a roster put together because they don't have the cap flexibility. As far as drafting goes, it's nice to get the players hyped for the first round, but GMs and scouts need to be looking for those diamonds in the rough beyond the first round. Patric Hornqvist was picked 210th in 2005 (he was the last player to be drafted) and eventually won two Cups with the Pens. That was a mix of smart drafting by Nashville and smart trading by both Pittsburgh and Florida before and after those Cups.
To paraphrase the film Hoffa, “you fire the people you wanna get rid of the first day so everyone else isn’t looking over their shoulder”. That’s what they pretty much did this past offseason so everyone else can assume they are part of the process moving forward.
Totally agree you need consistently good drafting. BUT. It doesn't matter how many Bickells they get, without Toews and Kane this team wins nothing. And it's easier to trade for a 3rd liner than a star.
Why I think teams completely blow it up a few reasons actually, Lemiuex, Crosby, and Mcdavid. Teams see what can happen with those kind of players and are willing to do whatever to get the 1st overall pick like the Sabres going into the Mcdavid draft. I think other sports have an impact on it like basketball, baseball, and sometimes football. The Astros and Cubs are big examples of teams that completely blew it up and built up from nothing. Football and basketball not as much teams nearly don’t have that level of success doing it. So it’s more than just GM’s in the NHL thinking like this. Building a championship caliber team is very hard or even building a team from the ground up and to be a consistent playoff team. Great video and I do hope the Hawks land Bedard they do have a decent prospect core I’m liking, I don’t like how we got to this point but hopefully it goes for the Hawks soon
Shannon, could you do a video of Rutherford's tenure as GM? Interested to see what Canuck fans could hope for with him/ Allvin at the helm when it comes to trades and drafting, and wins/ losses in each
The reason the hawks are going scorched earth is becaus Bowman was garbage at the draft, and his trade record was great either. Bowman's draft picks were often traded away or after he made a pick that prospect would be shipped out for a rental. We had almost no farm system. If you want to rebuild the way it was done in the late 90's early 00's you have to have prospects in the pipeline, and you have to have good scouting. I dont know if Bowman changed the scouting department, or just didnt listen to them. His picks often didnt reach their ceilings, or like in the case of Kirby were drafted too early and rushed into the league. I thought Kirby Dach could be a good 2C or great 3C but at 3rd overall that was a waste of a pick with Bowen Byram on the board. Dach should have gone closer to 20th. And if that was Bowman's pick given the details known about Dach at the time the 3rd overall could have been traded for additional picks or a pick and a blue chip prospect, and Dach was very likely to be available. By selling everything off, the prospect barn has been getting refilled after the poor management under Bowman. Once we have the guys in development, we can do the 90's - 00's style rebuild because there are guys to call up who can play the style of game we are looking for. Can't do a development rebuild if you dont have the players with skill to develop.
Without Patty Kane, the best player and the most skilled in Hawks history, don't think they win 1 cup. If Bedard can equal Kane, that might be Chicago's only hope of a resurgence in the league 🤔
Yea, but that wasn't his point. Drafting an obvious superstar is easy. But if the rest of your picks are terrible, it makes it almost impossible to win.
The point being, you need a roster with good vets even in the down years. Show you can be a good place for players to play, not just a place to be traded from.
Recognition to Patrick Sharp. He never got the press that Kane, Toews, and Hossa got (who all deserved it too). Keith was marshalling the blue line. Sharp was the most consistent shot for most of their cup runs (alternating with Toews and Kane as the primary offensive threat). Some of those goals were aboslutely magical, and came in high-pressure situations. Kudos, Mr. Sharp. And shout out to Hjalmarsson. The ying to the yang (Keith). Perfect defensive foil to the machine-like performances of Keith, especially 2015. Massive respect to "The Hammer". Hawks 2010-2015 is a good phase to look back on and analyze the ingredients to their success.
I can't remember which Cup run it was, I can't even remember the exact game scenario. But I do distinctly remember Sharp on the bench in a high pressure situation getting everyone around him pumped for the next shift. No discernable fear - just a whole bunch of LET'S GO.
@@Jay-ci4to I don't think Keith joined the team until after Sharp got there. He was drafted before but not a full time player yet. Sharp had to experience some bad seasons before the turn-around.
This is an excellent video which NHL Fans should watch. There's more to a rebuild then just tearing it down. Shannon is spot on with the analysis in this video.
Of course, that really should be obvious. The gm has to be on top of things when it comes to asset management, all while being somewhat lucky and tanking at the right time to draft the likes of teows, kane, doughty etc...
I gave up on the Hawks subreddit due to all the little whiny babies crying tank, tank, tank and moaning about every win. Trading away all the talent for one superstar doesn't get it done, when superstars can't do it without backup. Ask Edmonton
For a successful rebuild, you need good asset management, good drafting (including first and later rounds), and good signings. The salary cap will set you back into rebuilding mode if you can't manage it well (2020 Arizona was close to the playoffs but they were the team that spend the most in the league, sending them back in tank mode)
I see, among teams that have, from the 1989-90 season onward, drafted well and ended up winning Cups being the Blackhawks, Penguins, Capitals and Bolts. Most or all of those teams got good draft picks other than just in the first round. The Habs made a Cup run In 2021 after having won a playoff series the previous season, although the off-season to come would end up being disastrous. Not since the Canucks’ 2011 run to a Cup final has a non-Habs’ Canadian team made it to a Cup final. That’s although during that time the Jets and Oilers have made it to conference finals while the Canucks, Flames and Sens have otherwise won playoff series, leaving the Leafs as the only Canadian NHL team to not have won a playoff series during the entire cap era.
@@FrankieHresko Yeah they did. Too bad they never did anything with them. I remember Tony Amonte back to back 40 goal seasons, and Daze had 4 goals in one game, and Jeff Hackett had 8 shutouts in a season.
If you read the Wikipedia page on the Black Hawk franchise, it is obvious that a turning point was the ascension of Rocky Wirtz to being team owner. There was historically a ton of resentment against the previous owners, who were accurately accused of being tight with their money and even disregarding of the fans. Rocky definitely happened on the right people as team president, and general managers, and coaches, but it is doubtful that any of the good things would have happened without the new ownership.
At least now we are in a designed state of disfunction. Last couple years of old regime's mismanagement of picks still being felt. Hopefully Korchinksi continues to impress as well as Nazar panning out, and MAYBE just MAYBE we actually land Bedard. As a Hawks fan willing, but not forgiving, recent events with this team... I just want to enjoy hockey and hopefully have an exciting team to watch.
Hawks can really have a lot of cards to play regardless of bedard we will be top tier bad for top picks for the next season and maybe a few more we just need to trust the process I have no problem tanking for another 3 years
@@bradwiszowaty9573 Goaltending is just so hard to tell who will be solid, barring those SPECIAL few that leave no room for doubt. I don't think we have any no doubters, at least that I'm aware of, but I'd love a Crawford like scenario with any of our current guys.
I’m not sure you can call what happened pre Toews & Kane a “rebuild” we had a notorious cheap owner who wouldn’t pay anyone and just traded everyone away rather than pay up. We basically lucked into Kane & Toews.
The Blackhawks absolutely made the right move to trade Kirby Dach. For someone who was drafted so highly with a lot of expectations, he continues to have a pedestrian season. It may be better than his previous seasons, but nowhere near the hype people placed on him
This was such a well put together video! Would love to see this again with teams like the kings, penguins, and lightning that all won a couple of recent cups. Always a pleasure viewing your content Shannon!
I am a huge Blackhawks fan and I was watching this time period very closely. I think the overall take away from this video is that while the Blackhawks in the late 90s and early 2000s were not trying to lose and rebuild, they basically did lose and rebuild. Also drafting is extremely important, whether that’s at the very top of a draft or perhaps more importantly, throughout the entire draft. From 98 to 2001 the Blackhawks drafted horrendously. However from 2002 to 2006 they were almost perfect in drafting/trades in a building a foundation for a championship. So while the dynasty was not the product of a focused tank it was the product of incredible drafting that happened to occur during a time that the NHL team was basically terrible.
This is a great video. Been a hawks fan since 95 and we endured some dark times (probably even more recently) and no one wants to admit it, but you have to have a bit of luck in order to make a dynasty team. Getting good draft picks are important, but at some point you need to invest in free agents to show everyone that you're a desirable destination too. Huet was a miss, but im glad we went out and got him because it put the hawks on the map for a team that was showing that we wanted to win.
yup, you have to get stars outside the organization, you are never going to get over the hump by just drafting players. tanking fans just have this one star mentality and think it's going to make a contender which isnt the case, if it was, matthews would be winning cups by now, he has no great stars around him.
I hope to see you do a career video for Jocelyn Thibault. He was a pretty good goaltender that always ended up on bad teams but played well regardless. I loved him in Montreal in the 90s despite the Roy trade.
You are right that you need to hit on the later round picks to be a winner long term. but without the superstars you still will not win the cup. Without Kane and Toews they would have been a good team but that is all.
@@csolivais1979 Yes he did . He said you can not just rip the team down to nothing you have to have some pieces in place to compliment your star players. I say rip it down . The core of the team needs to be young, fast ,hungry and cheap.
Bolland was so key when he was healthy. No he wasn't around for Cup 3, but I always felt like if he'd been in that '11 series against Vancouver from game 1 they probably would've played Boston a few years early. I don't buy all the way in on him being that far under the Sedins' skin, but you look at how the series went and it's pretty obvious that he had a dramatic effect.
Honestly it is impressive what they did But the Kyle Beach situation makes this overshadowed and rightfully so And because of that the Blackhawks are the team I hate the most
I’m very much in the same boat as you. I loved that team as a suffering Leafs fan. They were so exciting and clutch. Bought myself a jersey. Wiped my ass with it though once all that news came out.
This is an excellent deep dive. I was baffled when they traded Hagel and Debrincat. It's been fun watching Hagel in Tampa, but I really thought he was going to be the future of the Blackhawks and really excel with a solid core around the rest of the veterans while they remained in Chicago. I think the Hawks are really punting this current rebuild away, but we'll see what happens. Please make that Tampa video you mentioned at the end. I would really like to see how their process compares. Also a little history lesson for a newly made Bolts fan (thanks to Hagel) would be appreciated. :)
@@dignifiedspace1706 I blame the last GM, who traded away picks because, I think only to him, that the roster he had was going to make the playoffs. So I think they traded away players that they would have preferred to keep. Dach, I think, just needed a change. For whatever reason, things just didn't seem to be working for him here.
The idea as you said was to build up the roster behind the stars with good picks in later rounds plus make good FA signings. Once you get to Toews's draft, look how well Chicago had built up their roster. I see it more as "there isn't much room on the roster for later round picks to get a chance" than "Chicago didn't have good picks in later rounds from 2006 onward". John Madden was brought in just for his leadership and experience, you can't draft that. Also, if Chicago ends up winning a cup in a few years and you would make this style of video again, then you would see Kane and Towes on the roster until 2023. This wouldn't suggest "trading everybody". And 2023-24 seasons Chicago starts with Hall (another big name). Plus, Chicago tanked for Bedard. Had there not been such a strong draft class as we had this year, who knows what Davidson would have done. It's not a 1-to-1 comparison to their build-up to 2010, 2013, and 2015 cups. Also, why teams do this "burn everything and start from 0" has to do with not wanting to stay in mediocrity for 10+ years. The team gets terrible for a few years and then builds up its roster, this would attract some free agents. If a team struggles to make it to playoffs, they are just prolonging their suffering. At least I see that as why teams get rid of everyone.
Blackhawks got great value for Kirby Dach, who I doubt will ever be a difference maker. But it was a mistake to trade Hagel. Again, good value, but they’re going to have a hard time replacing him. The Debrincat trade was probably smart, given the contract extension that was upcoming.
The biggest difference for the Blackhawks took place in 2007, when owner (Dollar) Bill Wirtz died and his son Rocky took over which brought about a lot of good changes.
Some teams get talent and win fast (Pittsburgh, Chicago), some take a while (Colorado), some take a long time (Washington, Detroit), some never win (San Jose). Will Toronto be a Detroit, Colorado, or San Jose?
One player can't 🏆, but you need that Kane, and Crosby. Kane was damn 🔥 good, a highlight legend. The plays Kane made at critical points in games, vs Philly and Boston, were huge, really huge 😳
I mean yeah sure Keith and Seabrook are nice picks but you can't just gloss over Kane and Toews. Do the Hawks win those three cups without those guys? I agree that tanking doesn't work but you need to hit those 1st rd picks. For every Dustin Byfuglien there are 8 or 9 nolan patricks and that kind of drafting sets your franchise back way more than missing a late round gem
Is this situation legal: let's say Tampa want to get some cap space. They trade Hedman and a lower round draft pick to the Coyotes for a first. Then the next day, the Coyotes trade Hedman, with x% retained, for their first and some cash. Hypothetically, Tampa's trading some of Hedman's cap for a draft. Is a trade like this legal and if so, why don't we see it more often? I know that we see it sometimes for 3 way trades.
Very interested in you doing a version for this with the Kings, especially with browns number being retired next month and then having two very significantly impressive runs on both ends of them plowing through the competition in 2012 and then having to battle it out in 2014
Great video! These are some of my favorite, look at a decade to see what a team did. Shannon, I think a difference could be where in this Example with the Blackhawks they didn’t tear it down it took them about ten years to come out of it. I think teams that tear it down for draft picks and early picks for a few years are hoping to fast forward while still doing a full rebuild. I’m all for an organic rebuild(long time, good drafting for five ten years,) examples are your current Tampa bay lightning, devils, Sabres, redwings.
it was a movie I watched. I can’t member. The name of the main person was an ex professional tennis player. And I think they kept bringing up all the time is that hard work was obviously a necessity, but at the end of the day it’s really hard for people to admit a lot of times that luck has a lot to do with a lot of things in combination with Hardwork, etc. And after watching you go through all this completely remember that because I think it really does have a lot to do with it. Something you missed in talking about the hawks. I think that is not overlooked but I think it’s probably talked about more if you were actually from Chicago and you follow the team is that when Bill Wirtz died I think it changed things a lot because they had a lot of good teams. The problem with them was they never could pull the trigger at the trade deadline because he wouldn’t take on a salary or a contract and that had a lot to do with it. When they sign Marian Hosa that really is what changed everything because that guy was amazing
I was one of the few kids at my school that followed the Hawks through the dark days as my dad is a hockey fan himself and played in amateur leagues up until the early 2000’s due to work and family. It was always bamboozling how the only games on TV were road games, home games were only on the radio cause Dollar Bill “didn’t want to make it unfair to season ticket holders”. But the instant Bill died and Rocky took over, home games were finally on CSN Chicago and WGN, and we make the playoffs the next season followed by beating the Flyers in the Finals the season after. That 2008-2009 season was when I was no longer one of three kids at school that followed hockey. And if you’re wondering, the only others that followed hockey at my school were two girls that LOVED Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews.
@Beakfast 69 He lives in a world where the entire board wasn't fired and they didn't lose all of their sponsors. Hockey Canada basically has been put through the wringer and has to totally change everything. The Hawks were fined a million dollars.
@@TheHockeyGuy EXACTLY! I’m not going to lie, being a victim of something similar Kyle went through (not exactly the same but similar) I get so angry to the point where I get emotional, when guys like this are downplaying the severity of the situation. Not to mention the trauma it caused.
Hockey Canada, again, everyone was fired. The head of it, the entire board, everyone. The Hawks transparency came after they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. That was a sham and then public outcry caused the real investigation to happen. The Hockey Canada stuff is still being investigated and, unlike the Hawks, are dealing with accusations from various years spanning roughly two decades. Hockey Canada has a horrible reputation across the country and that stain will last for a long time.
Hockey legend Bobby Hull, who won one Stanley Cup and was a 12-time All-Star who played for the Chicago Blackhawks, Winnipeg Jets and Hartford Whalers, has died. He was 84.
All this video shows is that the Blackhawks did NOT tank for their success. They drafted well, they won trades, etc…… As for tearing down completely and rebuilding, you can blame the 2015-2016 Leafs for that. Look at what they did before drafting Matthews.
Chicago's current "tear it all down" has been a top-to-bottom thing, starting with the Front Office, so it's not just the team that's rebuilding. It's organization-wide, and why I don't consider what they're doing to be "tanking." As for their "foundation," that hasn't been great, for a while now. Their prospect pool has been pretty thin, made worse by Bowman trading away some of their better prospects for magic beans. Davidson is trying to build it back up again, hence his current drafting strategy of getting as many picks as he can. I hate that he traded away Dach for some of those picks, but Kirby is better off not having to suffer the rebuild. As for Domi, I agree they should re-sign him, which I never thought I'd say. I wasn't thrilled with that signing, but he has changed my mind. There's also no reason they can't trade him for picks, and bring him back next season, as he'll be a free agent in June. I wouldn't be at all surprised if 19 and 88 are back next season, too, even if they do get traded. They should hang onto Lafferty, as well.
Acts 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." Acts 3:19-21
Great, spot on video and so true . Going back even further, look at the Red Wings, # 53 Lidstrom, #74 Fedorov in 1989, Osgood # 54 in 1991,Dandeneault #49 in 1994, Konstantinov #221 in 1989, Holstrom #257 in 1994. All Part of the 96/97 championship team (and beyond for some players).I know some of the Russian players were older, but you have to find players where you can. I wish the Hawks had found away to have kept DeBrincat. I wonder if Kane would look better with better players around him. Maybe you go to Kane/Toews at the end of the season and say can you stay for less so that we can bring in some better talent and keep this thing rolling? We'll never know what went on but it does make me wonder.
The smart move is to trade your "rentals" like Domi. The franchise is boosting their numbers just by playing them bigger minutes, hence boosting both skill and confidence, something you really won't benefit from as you have to pay the forthcoming contract, but you do get the better value in terms of picks. If it is a player around Hossa's level, then you can keep them, but only if the contract is suitable and it was later in the rebuilding and they are still trying to accumulate picks and/or young players. To me its about combining talent with experience, but since they don't have their talent to build around just yet or perhaps within the next or two years holding onto "rentals" like Domi would be foolish.
2003-04 Penguins 1. Dick Tarnstrom: 16-36-52 2. Aleksey Morozov: 16-34-50 3. Ryan Malone: 22-21-43 4. Milan Kraft: 19-21-40 I think you get the idea. 18. Brooks Orpik: 1-9-10 20. Mario Lemieux: 1-8-9 (10 games, injuries) Rob Scuderi got a cup of coffee. Martin Straka somehow survived the firesale to that point but got traded mid-season. In goal were Sebastian Caron, J.S. Aubin, and rookie Marc-Andre Fleury shuttled back and forth to death between Pittsburgh and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. Malone and Scuderi were the two emerging late-round guys who contributed to the resurgence (or Experienced the Evolution, if you will). Malone left after 2008, not part of the Cup-winning roster. Drafts are always important from start to finish--not sure anyone worth their salt would argue otherwise. But the Pens' only great veteran by this time of year in 2004 also owned the team, soooo ... yeah, I think even though it was for financial reasons, it's very safe to say the Penguins torched the NHL roster of great veterans before drafting Malkin and Crosby. I agree it's a rare counterexample that I definitely don't recommend following, but it would be disingenuous to purport that 2003-04 squad ended with noteworthy veterans who played more than 10 games. So many teams have torched that I believe it's a matter of when we see another anomaly like Pittsburgh, not if.
Smith's drafting in 02-05 with Tallon's asset management in 06-09, lethal combination
that is an excellent point for some reason Mike Smith is like this forgotten person when it comes to talking about the Blackhawk success. I’m not really sure why it’s just kind of how it is a Mendel talented really good asset management, but Mike Smith just had some really good drafts.
@@bradwiszowaty9573 Bowman has every right to claim credit for the 2013 and 2015 Cup teams. Those were his, not Tallon's. Dale was the reason they were up against the cap after the 2010 win, and which forced Bowman to gut the roster. Stan was at least smart enough to know who to hang onto, and who to let go. He brought in the right rentals for those last two Cups, as well.
Thanks for this nice little recap/team history. I became a fan of the Blackhawks in 2007 after Bill Wirtz passed away and the television blackout ended when his son took over the team. Nicely done and very informative. Thanks
As a life long Blackhawks fan that used to watch Hull, Makita & Esposito, it is really refreshing to see the current GM build from the ground up with young talent. The frustration of the Bill Wirtz half hearted ownership was terrible. So many teams that were almost, but couldn't get there. Careers wasted with a team whose ownership didn't care about winning it all. I am looking forward to seeing the young core of talent that they put together and watching it grow. It reminds me of the 1980 US Olympic team where there was more focus on teamwork than individual accomplishments. I am hoping that this is the case. I could be wrong, but I saw some sparks of the future in some of the young players this year, especially towards the end of the season. Bedard should also make it exciting. The young players have a great opportunity to step up and gel together. I am optimistic. Only time will tell.
Thanks for the great video, Shannon. As always you are appreciated for your hard work and thorough analysis.
Hjalmarsson at 108 was pure gold. Most underrated player on those teams.
i’d love a look at how tampa put together their roster. with the way they keep getting hits in not only late round drafts, but trades and few agent signings as well, there’s no reason to believe they’ll be slowing down any time soon. that’s how you build sustainable success. yea there’s a few very high draft pick in there (stammer and heddy) but look at the team around them. no one on earth expected Kuch to become the world beater that we know him now as. smart drafting is the foundation like you said. you don’t need a 1st overall every year and it’s not like every 1st pans out like we expect them too anyways.
it's because the players they drafted cost less which gave tampa cap flexibility to sign more talent, that's the main point of why teams with more top 5 picks fail than with teams that have less top 5 players win more and become successful.
Jukka Jalonen: Olympics gold and bronze (2022, 2010), Skoda-cup three golds, 1 silver, 1 bronze (2022, 2019, 2011, 2021, 2008) U20 gold 2016.
And no real interest because Suhonen didn't get sucky Hawks to playoffs.
Proper drafting, proper signing, and proper trading are the main keys to building a successful team. A team won't be successful if they spend a big chunk of their cap hit on a small group of players who overvalue themselves, then struggle to get a roster put together because they don't have the cap flexibility. As far as drafting goes, it's nice to get the players hyped for the first round, but GMs and scouts need to be looking for those diamonds in the rough beyond the first round. Patric Hornqvist was picked 210th in 2005 (he was the last player to be drafted) and eventually won two Cups with the Pens. That was a mix of smart drafting by Nashville and smart trading by both Pittsburgh and Florida before and after those Cups.
Kirby Dach simply wasn’t working out that well in Chicago. He needed a wake up call, and it seems like getting traded was just what he needed.
As a younger hawks fan, I only remember the end of our dark ages, but they were miserable times for us.
To paraphrase the film Hoffa, “you fire the people you wanna get rid of the first day so everyone else isn’t looking over their shoulder”. That’s what they pretty much did this past offseason so everyone else can assume they are part of the process moving forward.
Totally agree you need consistently good drafting. BUT. It doesn't matter how many Bickells they get, without Toews and Kane this team wins nothing. And it's easier to trade for a 3rd liner than a star.
But not good, cheap, 3rd liners.
Detroit in the 2000s also showed you dont need to tear it all down to build back into a winner.
Why I think teams completely blow it up a few reasons actually, Lemiuex, Crosby, and Mcdavid. Teams see what can happen with those kind of players and are willing to do whatever to get the 1st overall pick like the Sabres going into the Mcdavid draft. I think other sports have an impact on it like basketball, baseball, and sometimes football. The Astros and Cubs are big examples of teams that completely blew it up and built up from nothing. Football and basketball not as much teams nearly don’t have that level of success doing it. So it’s more than just GM’s in the NHL thinking like this. Building a championship caliber team is very hard or even building a team from the ground up and to be a consistent playoff team. Great video and I do hope the Hawks land Bedard they do have a decent prospect core I’m liking, I don’t like how we got to this point but hopefully it goes for the Hawks soon
Shannon, could you do a video of Rutherford's tenure as GM? Interested to see what Canuck fans could hope for with him/ Allvin at the helm when it comes to trades and drafting, and wins/ losses in each
We hope for one of two things:
1. We ice a bad team with the best goalie in the league like Carolina
2. We draft Bedard and whoever the next Malkin is
Hey, Shannon.... Great video as always, but Blackhawks is misspelled in the title.
Keller Bedard Guenther Cooley. A lot of potential there.
Interesting if you do this with the Kings,Penguins and Tampa too.
Would love to see a John Madden career video.
Have you heard anything about horvat possibility he’s not playing today?
I’m sure the scriptwriters have the Hawks getting Bedard and then Eiserman next draft to go on another dynasty
blachkawks?
lol he is gonna have to change that title
Hawks drafting fell off big time under Bowman. I will say, Tallon had some misses too after the superstars. Akim Aliu was SUCH A BUST
The reason the hawks are going scorched earth is becaus Bowman was garbage at the draft, and his trade record was great either. Bowman's draft picks were often traded away or after he made a pick that prospect would be shipped out for a rental. We had almost no farm system.
If you want to rebuild the way it was done in the late 90's early 00's you have to have prospects in the pipeline, and you have to have good scouting. I dont know if Bowman changed the scouting department, or just didnt listen to them. His picks often didnt reach their ceilings, or like in the case of Kirby were drafted too early and rushed into the league. I thought Kirby Dach could be a good 2C or great 3C but at 3rd overall that was a waste of a pick with Bowen Byram on the board. Dach should have gone closer to 20th. And if that was Bowman's pick given the details known about Dach at the time the 3rd overall could have been traded for additional picks or a pick and a blue chip prospect, and Dach was very likely to be available.
By selling everything off, the prospect barn has been getting refilled after the poor management under Bowman. Once we have the guys in development, we can do the 90's - 00's style rebuild because there are guys to call up who can play the style of game we are looking for. Can't do a development rebuild if you dont have the players with skill to develop.
IT'S time for a documentary on the persistent brilliance of our favorite TH-cam GUY - THE HOCKEY GUY 🏒 👏👏
Take note Capitals 🦅
Without Patty Kane, the best player and the most skilled in Hawks history, don't think they win 1 cup. If Bedard can equal Kane, that might be Chicago's only hope of a resurgence in the league 🤔
Yea, but that wasn't his point. Drafting an obvious superstar is easy. But if the rest of your picks are terrible, it makes it almost impossible to win.
And then bombed off two years later after the third cup...
Are you watching this Canucks fans?
Those 2001 guys weren’t there in 2010. The wrong veterans can choke the development of the young stars (to be)
The point being, you need a roster with good vets even in the down years. Show you can be a good place for players to play, not just a place to be traded from.
Kyle beach ⛱️ presser with owner Wirtz? that turned me off. Hope the Hawks don't get Bedard 😈
Recognition to Patrick Sharp. He never got the press that Kane, Toews, and Hossa got (who all deserved it too). Keith was marshalling the blue line. Sharp was the most consistent shot for most of their cup runs (alternating with Toews and Kane as the primary offensive threat). Some of those goals were aboslutely magical, and came in high-pressure situations. Kudos, Mr. Sharp.
And shout out to Hjalmarsson. The ying to the yang (Keith). Perfect defensive foil to the machine-like performances of Keith, especially 2015. Massive respect to "The Hammer".
Hawks 2010-2015 is a good phase to look back on and analyze the ingredients to their success.
I can't remember which Cup run it was, I can't even remember the exact game scenario. But I do distinctly remember Sharp on the bench in a high pressure situation getting everyone around him pumped for the next shift. No discernable fear - just a whole bunch of LET'S GO.
Sharpie was my favorite player, even more than Kane and Toews because I always like the guys who have been on the team the longest.
@@mizer9510well by that logic Duncan Keith should have been your fav player
@@Jay-ci4to I don't think Keith joined the team until after Sharp got there. He was drafted before but not a full time player yet. Sharp had to experience some bad seasons before the turn-around.
Never realized how important drafting outside of the 1st round was. Tampa is another example of having great drafting.
This is an excellent video which NHL Fans should watch. There's more to a rebuild then just tearing it down. Shannon is spot on with the analysis in this video.
Of course, that really should be obvious. The gm has to be on top of things when it comes to asset management, all while being somewhat lucky and tanking at the right time to draft the likes of teows, kane, doughty etc...
Agreed
cries in Canuck
I gave up on the Hawks subreddit due to all the little whiny babies crying tank, tank, tank and moaning about every win. Trading away all the talent for one superstar doesn't get it done, when superstars can't do it without backup. Ask Edmonton
For a successful rebuild, you need good asset management, good drafting (including first and later rounds), and good signings. The salary cap will set you back into rebuilding mode if you can't manage it well (2020 Arizona was close to the playoffs but they were the team that spend the most in the league, sending them back in tank mode)
Chayka has to be there in some top5 worst GM's of all time
I see, among teams that have, from the 1989-90 season onward, drafted well and ended up winning Cups being the Blackhawks, Penguins, Capitals and Bolts. Most or all of those teams got good draft picks other than just in the first round. The Habs made a Cup run In 2021 after having won a playoff series the previous season, although the off-season to come would end up being disastrous.
Not since the Canucks’ 2011 run to a Cup final has a non-Habs’ Canadian team made it to a Cup final. That’s although during that time the Jets and Oilers have made it to conference finals while the Canucks, Flames and Sens have otherwise won playoff series, leaving the Leafs as the only Canadian NHL team to not have won a playoff series during the entire cap era.
Those early 2010s Hawks teams were so fun. That cup final against the Bruins was crazy
Been a Blackhawks fan since 94 and I can tell you those early to mid 2000's were miserable.
I agree but still some exciting players on those rosters.. Amonte, Zhamnov, Daze and few others
@@FrankieHresko Yeah they did. Too bad they never did anything with them. I remember Tony Amonte back to back 40 goal seasons, and Daze had 4 goals in one game, and Jeff Hackett had 8 shutouts in a season.
is it worse than how it is now
@@Chavez_Soria Not yet but it will be if they continue to have crappy seasons.
@@mizer9510 you think it's gonna get better next season or no
The most important event in the rebuild was Rocky Wirtz inheriting the team after his father's death.
If you read the Wikipedia page on the Black Hawk franchise, it is obvious that a turning point was the ascension of Rocky Wirtz to being team owner. There was historically a ton of resentment against the previous owners, who were accurately accused of being tight with their money and even disregarding of the fans. Rocky definitely happened on the right people as team president, and general managers, and coaches, but it is doubtful that any of the good things would have happened without the new ownership.
Lets go hawks!!
I really think it turned around after the owner passed away. Used to be able to go to games in '96-'98 & you could get tickets for $15
At least now we are in a designed state of disfunction. Last couple years of old regime's mismanagement of picks still being felt. Hopefully Korchinksi continues to impress as well as Nazar panning out, and MAYBE just MAYBE we actually land Bedard. As a Hawks fan willing, but not forgiving, recent events with this team... I just want to enjoy hockey and hopefully have an exciting team to watch.
Hawks can really have a lot of cards to play regardless of bedard we will be top tier bad for top picks for the next season and maybe a few more we just need to trust the process I have no problem tanking for another 3 years
@@bradwiszowaty9573 hopefully one of them will turn out to be our guy
@@bradwiszowaty9573 Goaltending is just so hard to tell who will be solid, barring those SPECIAL few that leave no room for doubt. I don't think we have any no doubters, at least that I'm aware of, but I'd love a Crawford like scenario with any of our current guys.
A complete tear down is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY,Davidson wrecked this team for years to come!
Excellent piece of analysis Shannon.Thank you.
Would they have won the cup without Patrick Kane? He was a lottery win as well right?
Bedard-Nazar-Reichel-Moore-Korchinski-Del Mastro- Commesoo. Looking good so far throw Rinzel in there too.
Duncan Keith drafted #54, unbelievable. One of the best to ever play the D position.
I’m not sure you can call what happened pre Toews & Kane a “rebuild” we had a notorious cheap owner who wouldn’t pay anyone and just traded everyone away rather than pay up. We basically lucked into Kane & Toews.
you did.
The Blackhawks absolutely made the right move to trade Kirby Dach. For someone who was drafted so highly with a lot of expectations, he continues to have a pedestrian season. It may be better than his previous seasons, but nowhere near the hype people placed on him
No matter the sport, all Chicago professional sports teams seem to be in a “rebuild”….wait until next year!!!
bears suck... bulls barley making the playoffs... cubs?
It sucks to be a sports fan here in Chicago bruh 😭😭😭, at least the Sky won a championship 2 years ago.
There are a couple of World Series wins in the fairly recent past.
Admittedly a long time coming...but its something.
Gotta love the White Sox!
White Sox, Bulls, and Bears underperformed so badly. Cubs right on schedule might have a lot quicker of a rebuild this time around
This was such a well put together video! Would love to see this again with teams like the kings, penguins, and lightning that all won a couple of recent cups. Always a pleasure viewing your content Shannon!
I would also love to see videos for this as well
I am a huge Blackhawks fan and I was watching this time period very closely. I think the overall take away from this video is that while the Blackhawks in the late 90s and early 2000s were not trying to lose and rebuild, they basically did lose and rebuild. Also drafting is extremely important, whether that’s at the very top of a draft or perhaps more importantly, throughout the entire draft. From 98 to 2001 the Blackhawks drafted horrendously. However from 2002 to 2006 they were almost perfect in drafting/trades in a building a foundation for a championship.
So while the dynasty was not the product of a focused tank it was the product of incredible drafting that happened to occur during a time that the NHL team was basically terrible.
This is a great video. Been a hawks fan since 95 and we endured some dark times (probably even more recently) and no one wants to admit it, but you have to have a bit of luck in order to make a dynasty team. Getting good draft picks are important, but at some point you need to invest in free agents to show everyone that you're a desirable destination too. Huet was a miss, but im glad we went out and got him because it put the hawks on the map for a team that was showing that we wanted to win.
yup, you have to get stars outside the organization, you are never going to get over the hump by just drafting players. tanking fans just have this one star mentality and think it's going to make a contender which isnt the case, if it was, matthews would be winning cups by now, he has no great stars around him.
One thing about Kirby Dach: he’s been injured almost 90% of his time in Montreal. If that continues, Chicago wins that trade.
I hope to see you do a career video for Jocelyn Thibault. He was a pretty good goaltender that always ended up on bad teams but played well regardless. I loved him in Montreal in the 90s despite
the Roy trade.
I was really excited when they got him. He was a good player. Very underrated.
You are right that you need to hit on the later round picks to be a winner long term. but without the superstars you still will not win the cup. Without Kane and Toews they would have been a good team but that is all.
Yea, but that's not what said.
@@csolivais1979 Yes he did . He said you can not just rip the team down to nothing you have to have some pieces in place to compliment your star players. I say rip it down . The core of the team needs to be young, fast ,hungry and cheap.
Bolland was so key when he was healthy. No he wasn't around for Cup 3, but I always felt like if he'd been in that '11 series against Vancouver from game 1 they probably would've played Boston a few years early. I don't buy all the way in on him being that far under the Sedins' skin, but you look at how the series went and it's pretty obvious that he had a dramatic effect.
Ruutu for Ladd was a sneaky good move the Blackhawks made during their rebuild that isn’t ever spoke about
Honestly it is impressive what they did
But the Kyle Beach situation makes this overshadowed and rightfully so
And because of that the Blackhawks are the team I hate the most
I’m very much in the same boat as you. I loved that team as a suffering Leafs fan. They were so exciting and clutch. Bought myself a jersey. Wiped my ass with it though once all that news came out.
Stole Patrick Sharp from the Flyers is a major Dang-it for the Flyers
This is an excellent deep dive. I was baffled when they traded Hagel and Debrincat.
It's been fun watching Hagel in Tampa, but I really thought he was going to be the future of the Blackhawks and really excel with a solid core around the rest of the veterans while they remained in Chicago. I think the Hawks are really punting this current rebuild away, but we'll see what happens.
Please make that Tampa video you mentioned at the end. I would really like to see how their process compares. Also a little history lesson for a newly made Bolts fan (thanks to Hagel) would be appreciated. :)
Hagel and Debrincat were soul crushing moves. I’ve made my peace with letting go of all the others except those two.
We really lost with Debrincat going. He was perfect with Kane (just like Panarin was) and was yet another bad move by management
@@ryan__doyle Hard same.
@@dignifiedspace1706 Also hard agree. Hope Debrincat finds success down the line.
@@dignifiedspace1706 I blame the last GM, who traded away picks because, I think only to him, that the roster he had was going to make the playoffs. So I think they traded away players that they would have preferred to keep. Dach, I think, just needed a change. For whatever reason, things just didn't seem to be working for him here.
The idea as you said was to build up the roster behind the stars with good picks in later rounds plus make good FA signings. Once you get to Toews's draft, look how well Chicago had built up their roster. I see it more as "there isn't much room on the roster for later round picks to get a chance" than "Chicago didn't have good picks in later rounds from 2006 onward". John Madden was brought in just for his leadership and experience, you can't draft that.
Also, if Chicago ends up winning a cup in a few years and you would make this style of video again, then you would see Kane and Towes on the roster until 2023. This wouldn't suggest "trading everybody". And 2023-24 seasons Chicago starts with Hall (another big name). Plus, Chicago tanked for Bedard. Had there not been such a strong draft class as we had this year, who knows what Davidson would have done. It's not a 1-to-1 comparison to their build-up to 2010, 2013, and 2015 cups.
Also, why teams do this "burn everything and start from 0" has to do with not wanting to stay in mediocrity for 10+ years. The team gets terrible for a few years and then builds up its roster, this would attract some free agents. If a team struggles to make it to playoffs, they are just prolonging their suffering. At least I see that as why teams get rid of everyone.
Blackhawks got great value for Kirby Dach, who I doubt will ever be a difference maker. But it was a mistake to trade Hagel. Again, good value, but they’re going to have a hard time replacing him. The Debrincat trade was probably smart, given the contract extension that was upcoming.
The biggest difference for the Blackhawks took place in 2007, when owner (Dollar) Bill Wirtz died and his son Rocky took over which brought about a lot of good changes.
Getting hits in other rounds is very important...unless you are the Avs and your Gm can steal random 4th liners and turn then into top line guys
Some teams get talent and win fast (Pittsburgh, Chicago), some take a while (Colorado), some take a long time (Washington, Detroit), some never win (San Jose). Will Toronto be a Detroit, Colorado, or San Jose?
One player can't 🏆, but you need that Kane, and Crosby. Kane was damn 🔥 good, a highlight legend. The plays Kane made at critical points in games, vs Philly and Boston, were huge, really huge 😳
No mention of the death of Dollar Bill Wirtz when Rocky Wirtz took over and brought the team back from "The worst franchise in professional sports".
I mean yeah sure Keith and Seabrook are nice picks but you can't just gloss over Kane and Toews. Do the Hawks win those three cups without those guys? I agree that tanking doesn't work but you need to hit those 1st rd picks. For every Dustin Byfuglien there are 8 or 9 nolan patricks and that kind of drafting sets your franchise back way more than missing a late round gem
Is this situation legal: let's say Tampa want to get some cap space. They trade Hedman and a lower round draft pick to the Coyotes for a first. Then the next day, the Coyotes trade Hedman, with x% retained, for their first and some cash. Hypothetically, Tampa's trading some of Hedman's cap for a draft. Is a trade like this legal and if so, why don't we see it more often? I know that we see it sometimes for 3 way trades.
Pulford GM career video when? :D
Hossa and Kane were beasts 💪 when they needed that next one.
If these guys get Connor Bedard, I’m quitting paying attention to hockey.
Patrick Kane. That is all
Helping a rebuild immensely is Patrik Stefan missing an empty net goal.
Very interested in you doing a version for this with the Kings, especially with browns number being retired next month and then having two very significantly impressive runs on both ends of them plowing through the competition in 2012 and then having to battle it out in 2014
That 2007 #1 should have been the Flyers' pick.
I would love to see this kind of video about Tampa Bay Lightning.
For me: I seriously hope they trade Toews And Kane at the deadline 🤦🏼♂️
Hagel? Traded to Tampa is mind-numbing. Why ?
Needed draft picks because for some reason our last GM thought that they were a playoff team.
Chicago Blackhawks momentum shift
Great video! These are some of my favorite, look at a decade to see what a team did.
Shannon, I think a difference could be where in this Example with the Blackhawks they didn’t tear it down it took them about ten years to come out of it. I think teams that tear it down for draft picks and early picks for a few years are hoping to fast forward while still doing a full rebuild.
I’m all for an organic rebuild(long time, good drafting for five ten years,) examples are your current Tampa bay lightning, devils, Sabres, redwings.
Is “Blachkawks” a joke I’m missing here or?
you mean the Chicago Predators
Losing Big Buff cost them a cup or two.
it was a movie I watched. I can’t member. The name of the main person was an ex professional tennis player. And I think they kept bringing up all the time is that hard work was obviously a necessity, but at the end of the day it’s really hard for people to admit a lot of times that luck has a lot to do with a lot of things in combination with Hardwork, etc. And after watching you go through all this completely remember that because I think it really does have a lot to do with it. Something you missed in talking about the hawks. I think that is not overlooked but I think it’s probably talked about more if you were actually from Chicago and you follow the team is that when Bill Wirtz died I think it changed things a lot because they had a lot of good teams. The problem with them was they never could pull the trigger at the trade deadline because he wouldn’t take on a salary or a contract and that had a lot to do with it. When they sign Marian Hosa that really is what changed everything because that guy was amazing
The film is Match Point! Love that one
Make this a series Shannon!
I was one of the few kids at my school that followed the Hawks through the dark days as my dad is a hockey fan himself and played in amateur leagues up until the early 2000’s due to work and family. It was always bamboozling how the only games on TV were road games, home games were only on the radio cause Dollar Bill “didn’t want to make it unfair to season ticket holders”. But the instant Bill died and Rocky took over, home games were finally on CSN Chicago and WGN, and we make the playoffs the next season followed by beating the Flyers in the Finals the season after. That 2008-2009 season was when I was no longer one of three kids at school that followed hockey. And if you’re wondering, the only others that followed hockey at my school were two girls that LOVED Patrick Kane and Jonathan Toews.
👍
As a Canucks fan, I hated the hawks. I would have hated them even more if I knew what was going on behind the scenes.
RE: Hockey Canada scandal?
Nobody says a word about this, although much worse, with multiple victims.
@@fubartotale3389Literally every hockey news outlet has covered hockey Canada. Get out of your fucking shitty little shell.
@Beakfast 69 He lives in a world where the entire board wasn't fired and they didn't lose all of their sponsors. Hockey Canada basically has been put through the wringer and has to totally change everything. The Hawks were fined a million dollars.
@@TheHockeyGuy EXACTLY! I’m not going to lie, being a victim of something similar Kyle went through (not exactly the same but similar) I get so angry to the point where I get emotional, when guys like this are downplaying the severity of the situation. Not to mention the trauma it caused.
Hockey Canada, again, everyone was fired. The head of it, the entire board, everyone. The Hawks transparency came after they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong. That was a sham and then public outcry caused the real investigation to happen. The Hockey Canada stuff is still being investigated and, unlike the Hawks, are dealing with accusations from various years spanning roughly two decades. Hockey Canada has a horrible reputation across the country and that stain will last for a long time.
Hockey legend Bobby Hull, who won one Stanley Cup and was a 12-time All-Star who played for the Chicago Blackhawks, Winnipeg Jets and Hartford Whalers, has died. He was 84.
All this video shows is that the Blackhawks did NOT tank for their success. They drafted well, they won trades, etc…… As for tearing down completely and rebuilding, you can blame the 2015-2016 Leafs for that. Look at what they did before drafting Matthews.
Dach is a bust. Soft
The Blachkawks lol
Chicago's current "tear it all down" has been a top-to-bottom thing, starting with the Front Office, so it's not just the team that's rebuilding. It's organization-wide, and why I don't consider what they're doing to be "tanking." As for their "foundation," that hasn't been great, for a while now. Their prospect pool has been pretty thin, made worse by Bowman trading away some of their better prospects for magic beans. Davidson is trying to build it back up again, hence his current drafting strategy of getting as many picks as he can. I hate that he traded away Dach for some of those picks, but Kirby is better off not having to suffer the rebuild.
As for Domi, I agree they should re-sign him, which I never thought I'd say. I wasn't thrilled with that signing, but he has changed my mind. There's also no reason they can't trade him for picks, and bring him back next season, as he'll be a free agent in June. I wouldn't be at all surprised if 19 and 88 are back next season, too, even if they do get traded. They should hang onto Lafferty, as well.
As a flyers fan, I'm still mad about dropping to 2nd in the 2007 draft. Instead of Kane, we got JVR. What could've been.
Devils are next
Acts 3:19-21
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
Acts 3:19-21
Great, spot on video and so true . Going back even further, look at the Red Wings, # 53 Lidstrom, #74 Fedorov in 1989, Osgood # 54 in 1991,Dandeneault #49 in 1994, Konstantinov #221 in 1989, Holstrom #257 in 1994. All Part of the 96/97 championship team (and beyond for some players).I know some of the Russian players were older, but you have to find players where you can.
I wish the Hawks had found away to have kept DeBrincat. I wonder if Kane would look better with better players around him. Maybe you go to Kane/Toews at the end of the season and say can you stay for less so that we can bring in some better talent and keep this thing rolling? We'll never know what went on but it does make me wonder.
The smart move is to trade your "rentals" like Domi. The franchise is boosting their numbers just by playing them bigger minutes, hence boosting both skill and confidence, something you really won't benefit from as you have to pay the forthcoming contract, but you do get the better value in terms of picks. If it is a player around Hossa's level, then you can keep them, but only if the contract is suitable and it was later in the rebuilding and they are still trying to accumulate picks and/or young players. To me its about combining talent with experience, but since they don't have their talent to build around just yet or perhaps within the next or two years holding onto "rentals" like Domi would be foolish.
2003-04 Penguins
1. Dick Tarnstrom: 16-36-52
2. Aleksey Morozov: 16-34-50
3. Ryan Malone: 22-21-43
4. Milan Kraft: 19-21-40
I think you get the idea.
18. Brooks Orpik: 1-9-10
20. Mario Lemieux: 1-8-9 (10 games, injuries)
Rob Scuderi got a cup of coffee. Martin Straka somehow survived the firesale to that point but got traded mid-season.
In goal were Sebastian Caron, J.S. Aubin, and rookie Marc-Andre Fleury shuttled back and forth to death between Pittsburgh and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton.
Malone and Scuderi were the two emerging late-round guys who contributed to the resurgence (or Experienced the Evolution, if you will). Malone left after 2008, not part of the Cup-winning roster.
Drafts are always important from start to finish--not sure anyone worth their salt would argue otherwise. But the Pens' only great veteran by this time of year in 2004 also owned the team, soooo ... yeah, I think even though it was for financial reasons, it's very safe to say the Penguins torched the NHL roster of great veterans before drafting Malkin and Crosby. I agree it's a rare counterexample that I definitely don't recommend following, but it would be disingenuous to purport that 2003-04 squad ended with noteworthy veterans who played more than 10 games.
So many teams have torched that I believe it's a matter of when we see another anomaly like Pittsburgh, not if.