@@Michael020 Rich ones also get a peerage - it happened with the MP's expenses scandals - whilst the ordinary person would have been done for fraud, potential jail time and a criminal record - it stinks !
Catherine Ross is game keeper (used to be part of the board at OFWAT) turned poacher (CEO of Thames Water). Corruption at its best. They make me sick….
I don't understand why we are talking about this. Take the money back from the investors as they were practically stollen and throw all CEOs into prison. Enough is enough of being too soft on white collar crime 😡😡😡😡😡
Thank God someone gets it. Arrest any dodgy contracts, dodgy dividends, and tell the Ozzie's that if they don't assist us, we will remove the assistance we provide them. Simple.
A fair number of investors were pensions savings... I'm not certain it would be possible to dip into the pensions of millions of people and take the dividend payments back into the public coffers.
this is the issue with private pension fund investment, all of these companies exist to appease shareholders NOT customers!. We've literally painted ourselves into a corner by allowing these ridiculous investment fund managers and the companies they invest in to guarantee returns to shareholders in the form of dividends. they've asset-striped Thames Water essentially and if they have to pay back the dividends (which isn't going to happen as it's a Canadian teacher's pension fund I believe) then imagine how many other companies are acting in the exact same way. The entire game is rigged and the house always wins!
No apology, I havent done anything wrong, it wasnt me, pleading ignorance all done with a smirk on her face, I would have loved to have told her at the end well I am going to make a comment your going to prison, I think the smirk would have disappeared quiet rapidly. why isn't there a regularity body looking over these people or are they in on it as well.
I agree... apathy reigns! Maybe they should have a intelligence test before you can vote, lol. No pass, no vote. Proportional Representation would be a start though....
@@alien4422and the public voted her in because of her disgusting opinions on LGBT people and the poor. It's the public's fault. They only kicked off when to no one's surprise, she turned on the people who voted her in.
@@alien4422 But the Public allowed it. They were lied to about the process, and now look where we are. The General Public should be forced to watch these things and see these CEOs and Politicians squirm. You'd soon see change once they all take heed that these people can dump £10Bn of debt on tax payers whilst escaping with £7bn in dividends for the executives and shareholders.
its not only that, its the stupidity of the general public, its clear to see you can't argue facts with dumb people they will latch onto slogans and easy to remember stuff perfect example "oven ready deal" and the tories have done a great job in tricking the most vulnerable into voting to cause them the most self harm.
Catherine Ross should be behind bars for allowing them to pay more in dividends than they made in profit - that's clear breach of statutory obligations as laid out by the honourable gentleman
The amount that these people earn a year would be obscene even if they were good at their jobs. The fact that they are also absolutely incompetent renders their salaries utterly deplorable
Their salaries are a minor lottery win. The CEO of Thames Water is on 1.5 Million a year. If they are in their 50’s and they get sacked all they have to worry about is where to live in their retirement.
It's not incompetence they know exactly what they're doing. Let the infrastructure rot , sell off assets, rack up debt, cover yourself with get out of jail free clauses that mean the taxpayer picks up that debt, when it all goes to shit (literally) you just make sure you've already screwed enough money out of the company and retire comfortably.
Function of the private companies paying more…regulation was a route into a water co especially if you were influential within the organisation you left behind 😉
In Ofwat's interest tomake debt/ capital complicated. Before committee hearings they should send note explaining different calculations of ofwat debt for government committee. Dividends higher than company's profits, £7 bn dividends and £14 bn debt in same 32 year period by Thames Water.
Been saying this for months. Each and everyone of them are to hand back their entire salaries from the day they started. None of them have justified those salaries from the day they took office. Obscene that people can get away with being paid like this for the gravest mis-management.
Hahs anything ever come of any of them? They seem to happen time and again and not end in any change so its just a little cycle of having to go to the headmaster for a spanking with the plimsol every now and then.
@@Padraigp yeah I was having this thought as well. I thinks it’s cathartic watching the telling off, but ultimately these tend to result in minimal change
@@PadraigpNope. For something to come of them, the people in charge need integrity. Some MPs hope that their questions will smoking gun and that those questions will lead to the need to arrest or change, however, it never happens. Most people who answer questions are so well insulated, or have one over on an MP, that nothing will ever happen to them.
@@justno808 i see. Thanks. Same here in ireland. We literally do not even have a white collar crime department. Sickening really. There will be a reckoning as granny weatherwax woukd say.
@@Padraigpthey don't have any legal powers, but unlike parliament people are subject to a proper grilling. They cant get away with non answers and we can all scrutinise what is going on.
Water prices going up but these people haven't invested and given all the money to the shareholders...and now they want us to take on the hike because of their failure! This makes me SO ANGRY! Lock these people up. They know exactly what they were doing!
I'm an accountant. 30% gearing is about average; 50% is considered high. 60% is stupid, but manageable. 80% is beyond ridiculous - it's not even a Going Concern anymore at that point
25-50 % is good ...above risky but that is depending on your assets you leverage and liquid cash available to service the debt influenced by many factors such as index rates etc...Thames water is massive and has a lot of debt driven by targets set by regulators and govt...so the gearing will always be high to borrow to spread over an AMP period ... I know this and I'm not even an accountant
Thames water had no deficit but borrowed heavily, piled up debt whilst giving billions to shareholders, no new reservoirs built, structures crumbling, industrial scale leaks.. Charging us and government to pay up. Almost all water companies in England are owned by global corporates. An essential service should never be Privatised.
@@taffman1 That was over 20 years ago. The rational in part for blocking it was that the leakage rate was too high & a better solution than building a reservoir was to fix the leaks. Thames Water has done neither: the leakage rate is roughly the same as when the company was privatised.
@zetectic7968 Thames Water have tried to sort their leakage issue out but it’s very difficult as their water mains are buried beneath London. They are allowed to close roads around once a year to carry out work. Water Mains in the U.K. burst multiple times a year due to ground movement. We have frost in the winter which constricts cause the ground to freeze constricting the mains and dry weather in the summer followed by periods of rain which causes the ground to move over a short space of time and the mains burst. Finding the location of leaks is hard enough but repairing them when they are in an area surrounded by so much critical infrastructure is very very difficult.
@@zetectic7968 As you said 'in part' I was part of the then team looking in to the reservoir, and the feeling was reservoir was still needed due to predicted future needs, and that the directors did not want stand up to the politicians , though I agree about the leaks, not often reported by the media is that around 25% of leakage figures comes from the private supply pipes.
Not just an essential service, but one where there's genuinely no possibility of meaningful competition. That doesn't even make sense by the moonlogic orthodoxy of privatisation. If the people choosing which company delivers the service don't actually care whether they do it or not, it's always going to be a race to the bottom.
I’ve got a lot faith in this committee but there never seems to be any consequences for the wrongs done to us. Very grateful to Darren Jones and the rest. Can we just put them in charge?
In the US they managed to put a good number of Enron executives in jail for rewarding themselves while destroying the company finances. Here in the UK Fred Goodwin (I cannot call him SIR Fred Goodwin) rode off into the sunset with an enormous pension pot paid out of the public purse after destroying RBS. Might be an idea to hold to account people who screw up public companies. Instead success and failure are rewarded just the same. That is not a meritocracy: it is a swindle.
Yep just like Dido Harding had a massive data breach at Talk Talk so they gave her the Covid app contract that cost billions, was a failure yet in South Korea one man created his own open sourced version. So where did the billions go? Then the management of the Post Office during the scandal, some have been promoted despite them actually costing lives and ruining others.
The arrogance and complacency of these people is infuriating. Based on the sure knowledge that the structure of our society allows the privileged to be rewarded for corruption and failure that would be catastrophic for ordinary people.
Because the ultimate goal of the Tories is to shift as much money into the hands of their friends in the private sector as they can, and if that results in institutions failing they’re quite happy to toss even more money at them to put a temporary fix on the problem. It doesn’t fix anything properly, but that doesn’t matter to the Tories because they don’t suffer as much as regular people when tax money is spent on saving companies instead of on key services. Ultimately, Tories just don’t understand, nor do most care to understand, the circumstances of regular people and so they can never be trusted to look out for us.
No, better to have some strong committee chairs floating around holding the government to account. If they were in the shadow cabinet now they would have to toe the official line and tone their criticism down. Bring them into the cabinet after the election.
Leader. There's nothing to stop him sitting on committees as leader of the opposition that I know of, infact, it might actually work to their benefit 'where's Sunak?' "poncing about in a helicopter foe some reason" 'what about Jones?' "Oh he's down there holding people accountable for their failings again, you know, doing his job..."
We have regulators who don't regulate only giving the impression they do. We also need some serious reprioritizing about what is in the public interest. I would much rather understand how Thames Water have mismanaged their business to such an extent they have to account to a Select Committee as opposed to what Huw Edwards did or didn't get up to behind his wife's back .
I worked in the water industry as a leakage technician and a project engineer. I was a contractor that worked in Thames water for several periods of time and I can honestly say Thames water had the very worst leakage technicians I have ever come across. They thought a running fire main into a disused power station was normal. When I got that main turned off for one hour it dropped the leakage in that area by 17 cubic metres. The whole area was losing 25-26 cubic metres an hour. It took a lot of explaining to the thames water technician that a fire main should only be running when there is a fire, and not when it’s a disused site!
@@mattwebb5532you do know Thames water was privatised in 1989 that’s over 30 years ago - there seems to be many people with zero brains thinking Thames water was recently “privatised” idk where you get your info from.. thesun? Daily Mail?
Thames Water are shite.. I note as soon as privatised the salaries of the top management zoomed. They were previously happy to work for much smaller salaries(or they couldleave to sell their wonderful skills on the open market ) but suddenly felt they were worth more than four times as much! 😲
They are anything but useless. Are you still not paying attention!? The regulator is in bed with the company. She signed off on their plan to leverage the assets with the full knowledge that the taxpayers would have to pay for it. As for the other idiot saying, get shareholders to do it! The UK pensions will collapse, only we can offer a solid enough guarantee. The tories treat us like shit, won't even spend our own credit on us, but then use OUR credit rating to steal cash. Please England wake up!!
The former head of ofwat, now the head of one of these privatized companies. Now expecting people to believe she wasn't influenced by said companies. Criminal investigation's need to be applied to these rip off merchant's.
Should be illegal to swop jobs like this.. Should be at least a seven year bar.. Same shoyid apply with with Ministers going to work for companies they worked with while in government.. Especially military hardware companies..
It needs more consequences for the intentional wrongdoings of these people. Take away their bonuses, jail time. Whatever. They gamble the shit out of the company and then when the party is over, let's ask the government to bail us out. This has to stop. There's no risk for these people. They still have their jobs that's the worst, they should be fired immediately without pay.
I was a chemical process safety engineer chartered with the IChemE until the IChemE took issue with me asking the same sorts of questions that Labour MPs are asking now. Tear into them, take no prisoners, all those who tried to solve this according to their duties to the crown got the same treatment from these corporate parasites over the last quarter century, it's about time they understand what pain means. I never turned my back on my duty, even if it meant getting thrown under the bus, and it's only Labour politicians upholding what duty means from what I can see of politics these days, from the perspective of the Crown Charter that all engineers in this country must sign up to.
Research the Labour leadership & what the Party now represents. You come across as a decent human being, with integrity, don't sell it short over politics. ✌
How can those 3 sit there, with arrogance, egotism and a such blasé attitude to something they all contributed to?? Quite a number of years ago I got myself into debt with a bank, had to have a meeting with the bank manager to figure out how I can repay the monies, and the entire time I was there I felt nothing but shame and disappointment in myself. And that was only a debt of £6000!! We’re talking about BILLIONS here!!
"The views have moved on" is the most AMAZING way of saying 'what we told you was bullshit' that I have EVER heard 🤣So glad to hear the committee member repeat that audacious nonsense back to her. Why's it so rare for public officials to own their failures?
Boris is still free. Doesn't that say it all? Three bye-elections on 20th, with Somerton and Frome and Mid-Bedfordshire not yet scheduled: Rutherglen and Hamilton West may soon join the list.
HOW IS THIS NOT CRIMINAL? She signed off on increasing the debt from 4 to 10 billion (GB£10 000 000 000) and now (a few years later) she heads up the company????????????????? How much has she earned? What am I missing???
We were already paying our monthly bills on the proviso that the money was being used to undate the system. Thats what we signed up for. To be told we will have to pay AGAIN for the same thing because they couldnt be arsed to do it the first time round is so fucking shocking its insane.
Nothing is their fault, somebody else (us) is relied upon to act as guarantor whilst they have recklessly mismanaged their responsibilities and enriched foreign shareholders! It is criminal!
And let this sink in...the chief executive of offwhat that now works for Thames water, said she didnt agree with the judges findings that Thames water had fiddled the readings and been evasive when they discovered the leak of sewage.
Totally agree with you the need to make an example of these people, they are allowing them to get away with it. we are turning into a third world country.
All without needing a single drop of their product. To rinse the bill payer. People need to start kicking back HARD against this state sponsored transfer of money from their pockets into the bank accounts of the corrupt best off 5%. The Tory cronies who made a killing out of Covid contracts.
If there were a university degree in slipperiness, question evasion and expertise in using the revolving door these people would undoubtedly have "honours".
On radio 4 they were claiming that bills would have to go up to, address the victorian infrastructure. I seem to remember this being mentioned when the water companies were privatised. Given that was 30 years ago and there's no competition, what the hell have they been doing.
Screwing profits up and shafting the customers. From personal experience a small leak, when they actually did something it took two days. Pity it took two years of waiting to get it done
Sewage and storm water all go into the same drainage system. That was the Victorian structure. Those drains in the gutters take all the rain water and there is not separate system for your Pooh. Intense rainfall floods the entire system. The infrastructure required is enormous but needs to happen. If the water company is taken into national ownership it,s the poor tax payer who will get hit. The target must be on regulation ( as in so many instances: think Grenfell lack of proper regulation and oversight ) Thatcher was so keen on deregulation, but we need more of it for private industries so they can raise the capital AND do the job…. ( whoops, I was dreaming… )
My concern is , we deregulated the banks and we got the 2008 crash through shady practices ,and poor controls. We deregulated the trains, fares went up, and tax payers were told they had to pay for the infrastructure. Energy was privatised and the government (tax payer) has to help them out during an energy, which could have been avoided had we taken climate change seriously. Now we're with here with the water. What's next deregulated healthcare? I'm not sure if this intentional money extortion by certain bodies, or myopic incompetence. All privatisation seems to have achieved is greater economic division.
Yes, chickens are coming home to roost on that now. A pressure boost caused 3 failure points to old, degraded water mains in Hull; during April 2023. No comments from Yorkshire Water about aging infrastructure though.
The media has us think the poor, migrants etc are the boogeymen. Rather, it’s the well spoken folks on the boards and CxO positions of these companies and those who enable them.
@@danw5760 No. Tories want US type of Healthcare, forcing those in the UK 🇬🇧 to buy insurance. No insurance, no service. From what I have heard elsewhere, the NHS has been privatised for quite some time. The Conservatives Tories want to bankrupt the NHS, and they are doing a very good job bankrupting it.
The last time i took notice of the commons select committee was when they tried to bring carillion to book. Carillion directors laughed at the government and told them, we're not giving the money back.
Essentially, the water companies borrowed large (£billions!) to pay offshore dividends - and just a passing nod to investing in infrastructure. But those debts will be paid by billing customers. Of course the industry should be nationalised - it was entirely debt free when Thatcher privatised them!
All water companies and tall transport buses and trains etc , energy should be under public ownership A prime example of greed does not work dumping sewage in too the water system is crimeral
Where do you think the sewage goes? The drains have to be enormous now ( look at the size of the new sections ) to take the storm water together with the sewage unless there are two parallel separate systems.
So what Thames Water are saying is that there was never any "risk for share holders" as they were just always to be paid huge dividends out of my water bills. Service & infrastructure were never items on anyones agenda
Yup u ask somone to invest 50 pence ghen u go to the bank and use that to get a loan of 50 wuid then u give ur shareholders 60 60 quid so u can claim u havent got the funds ..and of course ur aunt mary is the shareholder. That used to be called cheating. But since we live now in a totally fake money sytem where everything is just made up off the top of a fiscal adjusters head in a post modern fit of pique ..reality is what u can get away with.
Wait, hang on, did anybody else catch the bit at 2:40 or so? That the Joint Interim CEO at Thames Water... used to work at OFWAT, the regulator for the sector? What the fuck??
Yeah....talk about marking your own homework.... Thieves and corruption at its worst ( with utter smugness) written on their faces,while going home to their mansion in the country...
The girating door. The person in charge of the regulator allows companies to assset strip a country and then get hired by the very same company to receive dozens of milions of pounds in compensation for services rendered.
I have been anti Labour my entire life and now I am seriously swinging towards them next vote. These politicians are good and we need more of them. Keep it up guys!
@@RonnieFerreria these guys are doing a good job here. You don’t see torture doing this type of work when in fact it’s there jobs that they were hired for.
@@Forester16 Labour have done more than enough to warrant there own blame. I have been reform most of my life as I do not think either Labour or Tory are good and have not been for hundreds of years
The dividends paid out to so many, involved with this Company, is ridiculous. Salaries are through the roof. No tories screaming here at Mick Lynch over high salaries
These committees are not going far enough. I can talk the whole day with you guys without facing other consequences I wouldn't give a shit. Just like they do
Did she mean: "Upon thorough contemplation, it has become incontrovertibly apparent that the profound recesses of my cognitive faculties have regrettably failed to amass an adequate assortment of erudite and comprehensive information to formulate a sufficiently intricate and elaborate response that would aptly address your inquiry."
How absolutely fucking outrageous that a former director of OfWat is now an executive at a private utility company.
Blatant and horrendous corruption. There needs to be accountability for these disgraceful people.
It's called corruption.
Stinks to high heaven
@@rrstows3522 literally.
It's quite amazing that these members of Thames Water are able to speak with their noses so deep I'm the trough!!!
Rich criminals go before a committee, poor ones go before a judge !
Great comment 👍
Sadly true.
Rich ones go for an expensive lunch after, poor ones go to prison
@@Michael020 And probably get a few new job offers based on how well they avoid and deflect the questions.
@@Michael020 Rich ones also get a peerage - it happened with the MP's expenses scandals - whilst the ordinary person would have been done for fraud, potential jail time and a criminal record - it stinks !
I like that
Corrupt liars, poisoning our countryside & beaches. Jail them.
f££$ing yes
Seriously!!!!!!
They deserve a lot worse, this is treason.
If only they would.
Not while we've got dumb tory voters.
Catherine Ross is game keeper (used to be part of the board at OFWAT) turned poacher (CEO of Thames Water). Corruption at its best. They make me sick….
i wonder what her salary is.
Imagine privatising water. Fucking WATER.
The lie was they'd invest in the infrastructure and upgrade pipes across the country.
Tory ideologues with their heads in the clouds. Absolute blight on humanity.
Only in it for themselves, shafting the 99pct and making off like bandits.
@@kowalskizapata3058yup ...and they dance all the way to the banks whether they are caught being dodgy or not. Madness.
@@jettyharrison4377 isnt it still free...do u guys pay for water,?
I don't understand why we are talking about this.
Take the money back from the investors as they were practically stollen
and throw all CEOs into prison.
Enough is enough of being too soft on white collar crime 😡😡😡😡😡
Thank God someone gets it.
Arrest any dodgy contracts, dodgy dividends, and tell the Ozzie's that if they don't assist us, we will remove the assistance we provide them. Simple.
A fair number of investors were pensions savings... I'm not certain it would be possible to dip into the pensions of millions of people and take the dividend payments back into the public coffers.
this is the issue with private pension fund investment, all of these companies exist to appease shareholders NOT customers!. We've literally painted ourselves into a corner by allowing these ridiculous investment fund managers and the companies they invest in to guarantee returns to shareholders in the form of dividends.
they've asset-striped Thames Water essentially and if they have to pay back the dividends (which isn't going to happen as it's a Canadian teacher's pension fund I believe) then imagine how many other companies are acting in the exact same way.
The entire game is rigged and the house always wins!
@@DeShark88it should be made possible. Investors just getting to run off with dividends
@alexholmes5026so what’s the good version?
Incapable of taking any accountability whatsoever. What a disgraceful corrupt country this has become.
There is no justice in this country. How these blatant criminals are left to plunder and profit breaks me
Unfortunately people vote for tories and this is what we get
Cathryn Ross is despicable. Her oh gosh! on water company collapse. As if she’d never thought of it. That was HER JOB to worry about at OFWAT!
No apology, I havent done anything wrong, it wasnt me, pleading ignorance all done with a smirk on her face, I would have loved to have told her at the end well I am going to make a comment your going to prison, I think the smirk would have disappeared quiet rapidly. why isn't there a regularity body looking over these people or are they in on it as well.
I blame the public. Too many of us aren’t interested in politics or trust a posh voice in a suit.
I agree... apathy reigns! Maybe they should have a intelligence test before you can vote, lol. No pass, no vote. Proportional Representation would be a start though....
I blame Thatcher as it was her and the Conservative Party and not the British public who privatised the water.
@@alien4422and the public voted her in because of her disgusting opinions on LGBT people and the poor. It's the public's fault. They only kicked off when to no one's surprise, she turned on the people who voted her in.
@@alien4422 But the Public allowed it. They were lied to about the process, and now look where we are.
The General Public should be forced to watch these things and see these CEOs and Politicians squirm. You'd soon see change once they all take heed that these people can dump £10Bn of debt on tax payers whilst escaping with £7bn in dividends for the executives and shareholders.
its not only that, its the stupidity of the general public, its clear to see you can't argue facts with dumb people they will latch onto slogans and easy to remember stuff perfect example "oven ready deal" and the tories have done a great job in tricking the most vulnerable into voting to cause them the most self harm.
Catherine Ross should be behind bars for allowing them to pay more in dividends than they made in profit - that's clear breach of statutory obligations as laid out by the honourable gentleman
The amount that these people earn a year would be obscene even if they were good at their jobs. The fact that they are also absolutely incompetent renders their salaries utterly deplorable
Thing is they are good at what they do, which is creating value for shareholders and obfuscating about the finances. The public can go to hell.
Their salaries are a minor lottery win.
The CEO of Thames Water is on 1.5 Million a year.
If they are in their 50’s and they get sacked all they have to worry about is where to live in their retirement.
If only.
It's not incompetence they know exactly what they're doing. Let the infrastructure rot , sell off assets, rack up debt, cover yourself with get out of jail free clauses that mean the taxpayer picks up that debt, when it all goes to shit (literally) you just make sure you've already screwed enough money out of the company and retire comfortably.
Expert on the management of the water industry are you? No, didn’t think so.
Darren Jones is a fucking hero. Absolutely class act and one of the seemingly few genuine people operating in these circles.
I reckon Labour should swap him with Starmer. Guaranteed win, *and* he seems to know what he wants to do...
He should be PM.
He's excellent. Barry Gardiner did well here too.
Legend
Function of the private companies paying more…regulation was a route into a water co especially if you were influential within the organisation you left behind 😉
They should be in jail, not still getting paid millions of pounds.
As soon as he opens with "We've been clear/transparent..." - you know it's going to be self serving weasel waffle.
No very transparent regards where the money has gone are they.
I wish the water they provided was clear and transparent
In Ofwat's interest tomake debt/ capital complicated. Before committee hearings they should send note explaining different calculations of ofwat debt for government committee. Dividends higher than company's profits, £7 bn dividends and £14 bn debt in same 32 year period by Thames Water.
As if they care, millions of pounds salaries and bonuses to take a telling off from a committee.. tough gig !
they give no shits - perhaps if they faced long prison sentences they might perform better.
They couldn't give a shite.
Agreed. Even if they got fired following this meeting, they would receive £££ in payoffs.
I feel like there should be prison sentences for people who discharge their duty THIS poorly - it's practically theft
Rich people don’t go to prison they go to the House of Lords
Been saying this for months. Each and everyone of them are to hand back their entire salaries from the day they started. None of them have justified those salaries from the day they took office. Obscene that people can get away with being paid like this for the gravest mis-management.
I am slightly addicted to watching these committees
Hahs anything ever come of any of them? They seem to happen time and again and not end in any change so its just a little cycle of having to go to the headmaster for a spanking with the plimsol every now and then.
@@Padraigp yeah I was having this thought as well. I thinks it’s cathartic watching the telling off, but ultimately these tend to result in minimal change
@@PadraigpNope. For something to come of them, the people in charge need integrity. Some MPs hope that their questions will smoking gun and that those questions will lead to the need to arrest or change, however, it never happens.
Most people who answer questions are so well insulated, or have one over on an MP, that nothing will ever happen to them.
@@justno808 i see. Thanks. Same here in ireland. We literally do not even have a white collar crime department. Sickening really. There will be a reckoning as granny weatherwax woukd say.
@@Padraigpthey don't have any legal powers, but unlike parliament people are subject to a proper grilling. They cant get away with non answers and we can all scrutinise what is going on.
Water prices going up but these people haven't invested and given all the money to the shareholders...and now they want us to take on the hike because of their failure! This makes me SO ANGRY! Lock these people up. They know exactly what they were doing!
@alexholmes5026I'm not so sure, I think I read something about claiming dividends as operating expenses is severely dodgy
Not all the money, just 57 billion or so.......
They want/need us to pay because we are the only income they have.
Absolutely how is this not criminal
This has happened with the rail companies also; and the post office too come to think..
I'm an accountant.
30% gearing is about average; 50% is considered high. 60% is stupid, but manageable. 80% is beyond ridiculous - it's not even a Going Concern anymore at that point
25-50 % is good ...above risky but that is depending on your assets you leverage and liquid cash available to service the debt influenced by many factors such as index rates etc...Thames water is massive and has a lot of debt driven by targets set by regulators and govt...so the gearing will always be high to borrow to spread over an AMP period ... I know this and I'm not even an accountant
Love it when Darren Jones goes in so well informed about every subject
There aren't many better than Darren Jones.
Nonsense - clueless grandstanding
A future PM
The CEO needs to be put into jail... Really poor management, only benefiting shareholders 💯
That’s what private companies’ main goal is
@@Liberty_Freedom_Brotherhood there's responsible profit making and irresponsible profit making though.
Thames water had no deficit but borrowed heavily, piled up debt whilst giving billions to shareholders, no new reservoirs built, structures crumbling, industrial scale leaks.. Charging us and government to pay up.
Almost all water companies in England are owned by global corporates.
An essential service should never be Privatised.
Thames Water wanted to build a large reservoir near Abingdon, but due to pressure from politicians it never happened.
@@taffman1 That was over 20 years ago. The rational in part for blocking it was that the leakage rate was too high & a better solution than building a reservoir was to fix the leaks. Thames Water has done neither: the leakage rate is roughly the same as when the company was privatised.
@zetectic7968 Thames Water have tried to sort their leakage issue out but it’s very difficult as their water mains are buried beneath London. They are allowed to close roads around once a year to carry out work. Water Mains in the U.K. burst multiple times a year due to ground movement. We have frost in the winter which constricts cause the ground to freeze constricting the mains and dry weather in the summer followed by periods of rain which causes the ground to move over a short space of time and the mains burst. Finding the location of leaks is hard enough but repairing them when they are in an area surrounded by so much critical infrastructure is very very difficult.
@@zetectic7968 As you said 'in part' I was part of the then team looking in to the reservoir, and the feeling was reservoir was still needed due to predicted future needs, and that the directors did not want stand up to the politicians , though I agree about the leaks, not often reported by the media is that around 25% of leakage figures comes from the private supply pipes.
Not just an essential service, but one where there's genuinely no possibility of meaningful competition. That doesn't even make sense by the moonlogic orthodoxy of privatisation. If the people choosing which company delivers the service don't actually care whether they do it or not, it's always going to be a race to the bottom.
I’ve got a lot faith in this committee but there never seems to be any consequences for the wrongs done to us. Very grateful to Darren Jones and the rest. Can we just put them in charge?
In the US they managed to put a good number of Enron executives in jail for rewarding themselves while destroying the company finances. Here in the UK Fred Goodwin (I cannot call him SIR Fred Goodwin) rode off into the sunset with an enormous pension pot paid out of the public purse after destroying RBS. Might be an idea to hold to account people who screw up public companies. Instead success and failure are rewarded just the same. That is not a meritocracy: it is a swindle.
Yep just like Dido Harding had a massive data breach at Talk Talk so they gave her the Covid app contract that cost billions, was a failure yet in South Korea one man created his own open sourced version. So where did the billions go? Then the management of the Post Office during the scandal, some have been promoted despite them actually costing lives and ruining others.
I agree. These sessions are gripping and seem to arrive at some truths. And yet they seem to be of no consequence.
What batch that woman is.... clearly trying to evade blame!
The arrogance and complacency of these people is infuriating. Based on the sure knowledge that the structure of our society allows the privileged to be rewarded for corruption and failure that would be catastrophic for ordinary people.
Why do we allow public money to be constantly piliged to bail out private companies?
Because private companies give politicians very lucrative jobs after office.
Its hard to see it as Public Money when Criminals are holding the Purse Strings.
You don't really have a say in what is spent where _after_ the Heist.
because tories gonna tory
Because idiot Brits are voting Tory and led by right wing media….Simple
Because the ultimate goal of the Tories is to shift as much money into the hands of their friends in the private sector as they can, and if that results in institutions failing they’re quite happy to toss even more money at them to put a temporary fix on the problem.
It doesn’t fix anything properly, but that doesn’t matter to the Tories because they don’t suffer as much as regular people when tax money is spent on saving companies instead of on key services.
Ultimately, Tories just don’t understand, nor do most care to understand, the circumstances of regular people and so they can never be trusted to look out for us.
Darren Jones needs to be in the shadow cabinet ASAP
He’s more effective in his current job as Labour’s Rottweiler in chief. These company bosses hate him with a vengeance. Long may he continue.
No, better to have some strong committee chairs floating around holding the government to account. If they were in the shadow cabinet now they would have to toe the official line and tone their criticism down. Bring them into the cabinet after the election.
Leader. There's nothing to stop him sitting on committees as leader of the opposition that I know of, infact, it might actually work to their benefit 'where's Sunak?'
"poncing about in a helicopter foe some reason"
'what about Jones?'
"Oh he's down there holding people accountable for their failings again, you know, doing his job..."
@@fritzhenning1 very true but We as people who are interested in politics know him I believe the general voting population need to know him more
We have regulators who don't regulate only giving the impression they do.
We also need some serious reprioritizing about what is in the public interest. I would much rather understand how Thames Water have mismanaged their business to such an extent they have to account to a Select Committee as opposed to what Huw Edwards did or didn't get up to behind his wife's back .
Nationalise water and all public utilities get these crooks out!!!!
Darren Jones brilliant 🤩 front bench future PM 👍👍🙏🏻
I worked in the water industry as a leakage technician and a project engineer. I was a contractor that worked in Thames water for several periods of time and I can honestly say Thames water had the very worst leakage technicians I have ever come across. They thought a running fire main into a disused power station was normal. When I got that main turned off for one hour it dropped the leakage in that area by 17 cubic metres. The whole area was losing 25-26 cubic metres an hour. It took a lot of explaining to the thames water technician that a fire main should only be running when there is a fire, and not when it’s a disused site!
Well yep! Dave.
Was this before or after privatisation ?
@@mattwebb5532you do know Thames water was privatised in 1989 that’s over 30 years ago - there seems to be many people with zero brains thinking Thames water was recently “privatised” idk where you get your info from.. thesun? Daily Mail?
Thames Water are shite.. I note as soon as privatised the salaries of the top management zoomed. They were previously happy to work for much smaller salaries(or they couldleave to sell their wonderful skills on the open market ) but suddenly felt they were worth more than four times as much! 😲
@@RonnieFerreriapp
Darren Jones should be the labour leader!!!
These regulators are absolutely useless.
Not useless, more like they are in on the scam.
@@alien4422Correct. Great distinction. When the Shepherd is invested in the Wolves, the Sheep are never safe.
They are anything but useless. Are you still not paying attention!? The regulator is in bed with the company. She signed off on their plan to leverage the assets with the full knowledge that the taxpayers would have to pay for it. As for the other idiot saying, get shareholders to do it! The UK pensions will collapse, only we can offer a solid enough guarantee. The tories treat us like shit, won't even spend our own credit on us, but then use OUR credit rating to steal cash. Please England wake up!!
They don't make the law sadly, thats down to the lords.
Complicit is the word you're looking for.
These people should be in prison theyre incompetent
Lock em up 🔒
The problem is shareholders taking profit. Basic utilities should be not profit organisations.
The absolute shameless state of them.
The former head of ofwat, now the head of one of these privatized companies. Now expecting people to believe she wasn't influenced by said companies. Criminal investigation's need to be applied to these rip off merchant's.
Should be illegal to swop jobs like this.. Should be at least a seven year bar.. Same shoyid apply with with Ministers going to work for companies they worked with while in government.. Especially military hardware companies..
Why aren’t these people in prison ?
These crooks should be in jail.
It needs more consequences for the intentional wrongdoings of these people. Take away their bonuses, jail time. Whatever. They gamble the shit out of the company and then when the party is over, let's ask the government to bail us out. This has to stop. There's no risk for these people. They still have their jobs that's the worst, they should be fired immediately without pay.
I was a chemical process safety engineer chartered with the IChemE until the IChemE took issue with me asking the same sorts of questions that Labour MPs are asking now. Tear into them, take no prisoners, all those who tried to solve this according to their duties to the crown got the same treatment from these corporate parasites over the last quarter century, it's about time they understand what pain means. I never turned my back on my duty, even if it meant getting thrown under the bus, and it's only Labour politicians upholding what duty means from what I can see of politics these days, from the perspective of the Crown Charter that all engineers in this country must sign up to.
Well said that man
Thank you for trying to do the right thing, even in the face of threat to your career. Corruption must be resisted!
Research the Labour leadership & what the Party now represents. You come across as a decent human being, with integrity, don't sell it short over politics. ✌
Labour is the only party to be found guilty of racism
Heroes don’t always wear capes. You Sir are a f**king legend. Thank you for your service.
Clear case of corporate criminality. Put the crooks in prison.
How can those 3 sit there, with arrogance, egotism and a such blasé attitude to something they all contributed to?? Quite a number of years ago I got myself into debt with a bank, had to have a meeting with the bank manager to figure out how I can repay the monies, and the entire time I was there I felt nothing but shame and disappointment in myself. And that was only a debt of £6000!! We’re talking about BILLIONS here!!
Utterly reckless utility managers. These people should really be banned from running or advising any company in the future.
"The views have moved on" is the most AMAZING way of saying 'what we told you was bullshit' that I have EVER heard 🤣So glad to hear the committee member repeat that audacious nonsense back to her. Why's it so rare for public officials to own their failures?
Boris is still free. Doesn't that say it all? Three bye-elections on 20th, with Somerton and Frome and Mid-Bedfordshire not yet scheduled: Rutherglen and Hamilton West may soon join the list.
They're rich arseholes who've never been held accountable for anything in their entire parasitical lives. Scum.
Lock them up!
HOW IS THIS NOT CRIMINAL? She signed off on increasing the debt from 4 to 10 billion (GB£10 000 000 000) and now (a few years later) she heads up the company????????????????? How much has she earned?
What am I missing???
We were already paying our monthly bills on the proviso that the money was being used to undate the system. Thats what we signed up for. To be told we will have to pay AGAIN for the same thing because they couldnt be arsed to do it the first time round is so fucking shocking its insane.
How come it takes £3 a month to provide water to a whole African village but Thames water can’t sort their sh*t out with £40+ a month?
Corruption.
Because its ending up in the pockets of the chiefs
Ofwat chair is an utter disgrace. No shame or apology.
So the regulators all end up running the companies that they set up the regulation to regulate.
It stinks as much as all their sewage discharges!
Barry Gardiner - Brilliant. He would be a great PM?
Darren Jones MP your the best👍🏽
No private ownership of natural monopolies and essential services!!
Gamekeeper turned poacher, changing and knowing rules prior to the change; how is that even legal?
that woman should be sacked and never let near any company again, what a slimy lying person! ( being Kind)
Same level of corruption going on at OFGEM & OFCOM
The contempt in that sigh at 09:45 says all you need to know.
Got that in both ears via headphones, watching on my walk home from work. Put me right off my stride!
She is such an affront to my sensibilities…with her patronising and condensing persona.
Nothing is their fault, somebody else (us) is relied upon to act as guarantor whilst they have recklessly mismanaged their responsibilities and enriched foreign shareholders! It is criminal!
And let this sink in...the chief executive of offwhat that now works for Thames water, said she didnt agree with the judges findings that Thames water had fiddled the readings and been evasive when they discovered the leak of sewage.
*MY HATRED FOR THESE PEOPLE* is limitless...
Get the money back, don't let them away with daylight robbery
Why aren't the CEOs of Thames Water in jail, or is it legal to constantly milk, what should be public utilities of money until they are insolvent?
Totally agree with you the need to make an example of these people, they are allowing them to get away with it. we are turning into a third world country.
Nice to see Sue Perkins diversifying in her career.
Corruption at its finest !
You pay money to water company and they pay half of it to shareholders and director's. How to launder money legally.
All without needing a single drop of their product. To rinse the bill payer.
People need to start kicking back HARD against this state sponsored transfer of money from their pockets into the bank accounts of the corrupt best off 5%. The Tory cronies who made a killing out of Covid contracts.
Why are they not in a criminal court?
Gamekeeper turned poacher... Absolute corruption
Corruption of individuals who are just there to fill their pockets.
Darren Jones is the grim reaper to these corrupt criminals!
If there were a university degree in slipperiness, question evasion and expertise in using the revolving door these people would undoubtedly have "honours".
On radio 4 they were claiming that bills would have to go up to, address the victorian infrastructure. I seem to remember this being mentioned when the water companies were privatised. Given that was 30 years ago and there's no competition, what the hell have they been doing.
Screwing profits up and shafting the customers. From personal experience a small leak, when they actually did something it took two days. Pity it took two years of waiting to get it done
Exactly!!! Couldn't have put it better myself 👏👏👏
Sewage and storm water all go into the same drainage system. That was the Victorian structure. Those drains in the gutters take all the rain water and there is not separate system for your Pooh. Intense rainfall floods the entire system. The infrastructure required is enormous but needs to happen. If the water company is taken into national ownership it,s the poor tax payer who will get hit. The target must be on regulation ( as in so many instances: think Grenfell lack of proper regulation and oversight ) Thatcher was so keen on deregulation, but we need more of it for private industries so they can raise the capital AND do the job…. ( whoops, I was dreaming… )
My concern is , we deregulated the banks and we got the 2008 crash through shady practices ,and poor controls. We deregulated the trains, fares went up, and tax payers were told they had to pay for the infrastructure. Energy was privatised and the government (tax payer) has to help them out during an energy, which could have been avoided had we taken climate change seriously. Now we're with here with the water. What's next deregulated healthcare? I'm not sure if this intentional money extortion by certain bodies, or myopic incompetence. All privatisation seems to have achieved is greater economic division.
Yes, chickens are coming home to roost on that now. A pressure boost caused 3 failure points to old, degraded water mains in Hull; during April 2023. No comments from Yorkshire Water about aging infrastructure though.
Good old Barry!
The media has us think the poor, migrants etc are the boogeymen. Rather, it’s the well spoken folks on the boards and CxO positions of these companies and those who enable them.
The MP for Bristol is brilliant
These are the people that will sell this country down the river
Go for it Darren
Just imagine how good a privatised NHS will be .
Privatised NHS will be just as bad as US Healthcare. If not worse.
@@frothe42wouldn't it more likely be a hybrid system like in Europe, and therefore better?
@@danw5760we've got a hybrid system now. Private health care companies do all the easy stuff like cataracts and planned surgery.
@@danw5760 No. Tories want US type of Healthcare, forcing those in the UK 🇬🇧 to buy insurance. No insurance, no service.
From what I have heard elsewhere, the NHS has been privatised for quite some time. The Conservatives Tories want to bankrupt the NHS, and they are doing a very good job bankrupting it.
@@carolcoopertaylor our current system is not comparable to Europe, no
So these CEO’s used to be regulators?
The same process that ultimately led to the Boeing 737MAX accidents, the regulatory revolving door.
Yes that's how it works. That's why she got the job.
A lot of people who work for regulators go on to get jobs with companies thry used to regulate and vice versa. There's no law against it.
@@PaulStargasm There should be
Nationalise water for heavens sake!
The last time i took notice of the commons select committee was when they tried to bring carillion to book. Carillion directors laughed at the government and told them, we're not giving the money back.
Essentially, the water companies borrowed large (£billions!) to pay offshore dividends - and just a passing nod to investing in infrastructure. But those debts will be paid by billing customers. Of course the industry should be nationalised - it was entirely debt free when Thatcher privatised them!
Thats why they privatised them so they could profiteer from it.
All water companies and tall transport buses and trains etc , energy should be under public ownership
A prime example of greed does not work dumping sewage in too the water system is crimeral
Where do you think the sewage goes? The drains have to be enormous now ( look at the size of the new sections ) to take the storm water together with the sewage unless there are two parallel separate systems.
So what Thames Water are saying is that there was never any "risk for share holders" as they were just always to be paid huge dividends out of my water bills. Service & infrastructure were never items on anyones agenda
I beleve it's a rule in the sociopath community always to deny one's sociopathic acts.
Would you take hundreds of thousands of pounds but be told off for 15 minutes every few years? They would.
There should be legal consequences.
so basicaly half your bill you pay goes into shareholders pockets nothing invested only borrowed money
Yup u ask somone to invest 50 pence ghen u go to the bank and use that to get a loan of 50 wuid then u give ur shareholders 60 60 quid so u can claim u havent got the funds ..and of course ur aunt mary is the shareholder. That used to be called cheating. But since we live now in a totally fake money sytem where everything is just made up off the top of a fiscal adjusters head in a post modern fit of pique ..reality is what u can get away with.
They paid more in dividends then they maid in profit some years. Absolutely insane
The real question, which no one is asking is who are the stakeholders who profited from this?
Jail them all now.
Wait, hang on, did anybody else catch the bit at 2:40 or so? That the Joint Interim CEO at Thames Water... used to work at OFWAT, the regulator for the sector? What the fuck??
Yes caught it…they are despicable criminals who should have been fined and looking at prison time for this f’ up
Yeah....talk about marking your own homework.... Thieves and corruption at its worst ( with utter smugness) written on their faces,while going home to their mansion in the country...
The girating door. The person in charge of the regulator allows companies to assset strip a country and then get hired by the very same company to receive dozens of milions of pounds in compensation for services rendered.
Wait,. The boss of OFWAT then became Chief Exec of OFWAT? There needs to be jail time.
I have been anti Labour my entire life and now I am seriously swinging towards them next vote. These politicians are good and we need more of them. Keep it up guys!
Unfortunately Starmer rules these politicians and he doesn't work for us. He works for WEF and the Trilateral Commission!!
I am not impressed by Starmer.. But, yeah, the Monster Raving Lonnie Party would be better than the current crowd..
@@RonnieFerreria these guys are doing a good job here. You don’t see torture doing this type of work when in fact it’s there jobs that they were hired for.
@@Forester16 Labour have done more than enough to warrant there own blame. I have been reform most of my life as I do not think either Labour or Tory are good and have not been for hundreds of years
The dividends paid out to so many, involved with this Company, is ridiculous. Salaries are through the roof. No tories screaming here at Mick Lynch over high salaries
These committees are not going far enough. I can talk the whole day with you guys without facing other consequences I wouldn't give a shit. Just like they do
Hopefully they help in forming opinions of privatization of essential services in the public.
The regulator was so good for the water companies they gave her a job,that says it all .
Did she mean: "Upon thorough contemplation, it has become incontrovertibly apparent that the profound recesses of my cognitive faculties have regrettably failed to amass an adequate assortment of erudite and comprehensive information to formulate a sufficiently intricate and elaborate response that would aptly address your inquiry."
If Darren Jones is on the committee, I’m tuning in…always.
Terrorise is a strong word when its clearly interrogate.
To someone not used to being pressed this is hell. Under oath on camera.
Should be waterboarded, but would be too expensive to fill the bucket.