Magic: The Gathering Versus Yu-Gi-Oh! | Untitled MTG Podcast #12 (feat. Team APS)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2024
- Did you miss Untitled MTG Podcast #11? Watch "Learn To Evaluate Your Magic: The Gathering Cards" here: • Learn To Evaluate Your...
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#mtg #magicthegathering #yugioh
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*Thank you again for the opportunity to collab and have this eye-opener of a conversation. I'll never pass up on a chance to share (and vent a bit) about my favorite game! I had NO idea Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh could be so alike and yet so different. Hope you all enjoyed!* 😄
Thank you thank you! I really wanted this to happen! I'm glad you represented us!
I'm just surprised prof didn't talk about pauper.
Thanks for doing this! As someone who used to watch the Yu-Gi-Oh anime as a kid but never got into the card game it's really interesting to get a distillation of what the game flow & culture is like and how that compares to Magic. It was interesting to see the difference in approach towards card draw and makes me thing how broken something like "Once Upon a Time" would be if it was made in Yu-Gi-Oh.
Great episode! Both Konami and WotC can learn a thing or 2 from each other
I LOVE this collab!
This gave me something to watch while my opponent completed his first turn in Master Duel.
Lol too good☝️
Did he finish his VFD + Chuche + Shenshen + Crystal Wing Virtual World combo
lmao truth
@@no_suk9851 a messed Rare footage
Modern YGO in a nutshell wow
To anyone confused what the extra deck is in yugioh. It’s a deck of fifteen cards that work like companions. If you meet their summoning conditions you get to play them from outside the game.
And mostly for free via some "sub type" of special summoning (Synchro Summon, Xyz Summon, Pendulum Summon, etc.) these days.
Imagine having 15 companions...
and it doesn't take a side deck slot
It's Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Command Zone.
@@brendaneichler5244 except they don't go back there when killed
I'd like to see the Team APS crew try playing a game of Magic with the Prof and then have Prof try a game of yugioh.
I feel like it would be really fun. And to see then bring other magic players into the ring, maybe even Mark Rosewater considering gow outgoing he appears to be in everything I have seen. I can see people from Loading Ready Run play, as they play a variety of board games and some card games, I can see them enjoying Yugioh too even if it takes them a bit to get going.
Yes
Yess that would be cool
That’d be dope!
I watch both channels and play both games and really wanna see this happen
And people say Endgame was the biggest crossover.
Yunno
@Forest Edge Avengers: Endgame, you know the biggest box office movie of all time
@@changhyon92 its avatar
Endgame still is no Crossover.
Draco Meteors Yeah...I feel like it’s not a “REAL” crossover. Like Marvel crossing with themselves? Doesn’t sound like a crossover, but then again, it’s somewhat a crossover, a semi-crossover if you will.
Man its crazy to learn that magic actually talks about the game online with people. You dont hear anything from Konami so I just assumed that was normal with all other card games lol
Same here, I never even imagined anything like that before in card games, especially with how crazy fans can get.
Yo I love your channel and am really looking forward to more vids from you!
There's a monkey paw to Wizards being visible online. They can be so tone deaf with complaints at times that maybe being silent like Nintendo or Konami might be better tact
Wizards of the Coast is a full American company while Konami is mostly a Japanese company. The differences in language, culture, and location makes things more complicated. Personally, I'm more on the "players don't know what they're talking about most of the time" camp anyways.
Imagine believing that Konami, a gambling oriented company, would spend time communicating about their children's gambling product. Enjoy your endless cycle of 3 year long commercials.
I'm glad it was Paul who was representing yugioh. He's such a well-spoken man, and I love his content.
But god if it was triff gaming.... That'd be the best
@@isnanesavant we would just hear every other sentance BEACUSE PEND BEST DECK
Or cimoooo
Paul is Yugi Muto (Little Yugi) Just a nice dude
@@crotair1089 yes
I love how paul is like "wait wait wait, magic actually gives a shit what the community thinks? thats allowed?"
Yugioh would never lmao
he seemed baffled 😭i feel so bad for yugioh players
and then we got 30th anniversary :D
@@onedae7587 wish they ran polls like Jagex
@@joel17721 Doesn’t really change much to be fair
now this was a unexpected collab i never thought to see
They have pretty similar personality if you think about it
I came here to say the exact same thing. I did a double take when I saw The Professor post about this on Twitter.
Right!? I had to do a double take. Love both these guys
Many magic the gathering players ask... why tho
@@javier6283 wow your life seems miserable.
Hey Professor, I've played Yu-Gi-Oh since i was a kid and have played MTG since my teenage years in Return to Ravnica. I'm a fan of both your channel and Team APS, this video really caught me off guard, I'm amazed. I Happen to be the kind of person that likes comment on Yugitubers discussion videos about what I think it's good in MTG and Yu-Gi-Oh should have and vice versa, so this video discussion holds a deep place in my heart, I wanna thank you and Paul for doing this. Thank you.
Wholesome comment award
Power 9 of Yugioh:
1. Pot of Greed
2. Graceful Charity
3. Confiscation/ Delinquent Duo/ Forceful Sentry
4. Harpie's Feather Duster
5. Magical Scientist
6. Makyura
7. Maxx C
8. Sixth Sense
9. Morphing Jar 2, Fiber Jar, Cyber Jar
And there's more that could be on here Yata, Rageki, Elma, Change of Heart, Card of Safe Return, Painful Choice, Snatch Steal and Soul Charge are all honourable mentions.
Feel free to comment your power nine of yugioh, though it's more like Power 20.
Painful Choice is #1, it wins on resolution basically.
I'd personally say it'd be
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Graceful Charity
Sixth Sense
Confiscation
Delinquent Duo
Snatch Steal
Change of Heart
Forceful Sentry
Meanwhile, Fiber Jar is a Shahrazad equivalent and Raigeki is the Sol Ring (in that it's as powerful as some of these yet keeps getting printing and is somehow legal). I'd say Maxx C, Soul Charge etc. are more Skullclamp/Tolarian Academy kinda deals, being equally busted but not from the start of the game
@@mantislazuli I think I put it on there in one I made a few weeks ago. What would you swap it out for?
I haven’t played Yugioh in years and don’t know most of these cards but I feel like Monster Reborn should be on the list
@@toothpicks205 You'd be surprised that that card is meh, now. It is off the banlist now actually.
My impression of Yugioh is that you can not learn the rules from the anime.
They legitimately lie in the anime by making up effects and bs’ing rules
Attack the moon, swords of revealing light and cuz monsters if you want to know
Flamboyant Warlock “number monsters can only be destroyed by other number monsters” that definitely wasn’t a rule at all
Flamboyant Warlock alright that’s an acceptable answer
From the original, no
From Arc-V and Vrains, yes. But you won't like Arc-V.
The Japanese corporate culture and the Western corporate culture are completely different. In Japan it's very much about feverishly protecting their IP's, trademarks, and copyrights to an extreme degree. That's why Konami is so secretive with everything, and the employees are subjected to clauses in their contracts that pressure them to stay at the company because there will be retaliation against them if they quit or are fired. Western corporations want to propagandize people so much that they view the company as a friend or as "the go to brand" for a product. They maximize profits and minimize costs. Both corporate cultures also have a team that optimizes how much outrage each product will generate amongst consumers. Companies will only change their stances when the outrage far surpasses their expectations.
The letters IP not being used for IP address if you guys are thinking that. This comment isn't to you zztzgza. And are you saying that Konami will kill their workers if they try to leave or get fired?
@@OneAndOnlyZekePolaris In konami's case specifically that wouldn't be surprising, but no, it's common for companies to try and blacklist you from the industry if you try to quit your job on your own terms.
@@gackybass Some of them do worse than that. They steal your ideas and brand it as their own. Looking at you Amazon. When a worker of Amazon creates their own game or anything Amazon takes it.
Yu-Gi-Oh is like a race between The Flash and Sonic on Drugs with a soundtrack by Skrillex.
Magic is a race between two tortoises towards an elixir that will turn one of them into an Indestructible Fire Breathing Winged Werewolf, if only they guess which Elixir is the correct one; with a soundtrack by John Williams.
Good comparison
That actually makes sense. Great analogy.
truee
Sir cedh and vintage decks can win turñ1 some even before turn 1 even modern doesnt exceed turn 3 anymore it is just not slow anymore
@@annajansen5280 commander is still slow and commander is what everyone in my area plays.
'Larry in the Hole' is like Team APS' version of the Prof's 'Booster Box Game' videos. Remember to buy singles!
Except there isn't a punishment if the Prof goes negative by 100 bucks. I hope Larry keeps his good luck streak.
That and sealed only yugioh to an extent
Paul: Do people like wizards?
Prof: *proceeds to have a mental breakdown*
After the SJW crap Wizards loves shoving in their games, no one likes them anymore.
Strixhaven was so obviously pandering to the sjw crowd with genderfluid mages and other topical artwork. When they lost me the first time it was with the avengers I mean Planeswalkers that was pretty cringe but the eldrazi were cool. Wizards needs to realize that the loud minority they see on social media isn't their customers. Their customers are nerds that like things that are cool and interesting. Wizards used to make cool inspired cards but they make so much lame stuff now.
@@philithegamer8265 takes like these are so fucking bad
@@Wagwaam i have never seen strixhaven like that. But even if it was, why is that such a big problem? You get pandered to all the time
@@martijnlerutte8826 idk strixhaven was lame
Yu-Gi-Oh is Magic but every deck plays like a red deck with tutors, has to be tribal, and comes with 15 companions.
and counter, it has counters, well and removal, well i think it has everything in 1 single deck XD
@@elladan23 unless it's a bad or more "dedicated" control deck like Mystic Mine or Secret Village of the spellcasters. We call these "floodgates" in Yu-Gi-Oh, but anyways we basically sometimes get a Staxx type deck in meta/counter-meta that shuts off entire game mechanics. Basically, the only way to justify not doing everything is to play a deck with control against those entire mechanics you don't like.
Geez. As a magic player all I can say is "aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"
aydooknow well there is some cards with great art work though, I play both games honestly
Honestly, I half agree. Yugioh, that isn't mystic mine reminds me of a storm deck..... you have the counters if needed. And once you pop off, its game.
Magic: We messed up on the power in the early years so we now have to limit as much of this power as possible (and mess it up occasionally)
Yugioh: Haha power level go brrrr
Isaac Soong “occasionally”
Magic (again): Haha, green blue cards go brrr
Magic is going down the same path with its recents bans
3 months later: hehe, banlist go brrrrr
@@chexmix0101 remember sets are designed up to two years in advance so if they listen and do power down sets we won't see it till late 2022. Then again, people were pissed about ixalan cuz it was so weak compared to kaladesh. (Still hoping it gets powered down to that level)
really liked listening to this dude talk Yu-Gi-Oh. My son broke my heart last year when he told me he didn't want to play MTG he wants to play Yu-Gi-Oh!! After much therapy (I'm kidding) I've taken more of an interest in this game and found this video very interesting!
He is definently one of my favorite youtubers. He got me back into playing Yugioh years ago. I can't wait for ky locals to start doing tournaments again
Haha. This was funny.
I think a major reason why people play yugioh is because we like to imagine ourselves as protagonist or antagonist with our favorite archetypes beating down others.
Fan bases and communities for games like this can often be toxic towards each other. It’s very refreshing to see 2 people like this from different games being so respectful. Good of both of you.
Magic Players stop being toxic real fast after you send them to the Shadow Realm!
I NEVER UNDERTAND WHY THAT HAPPENS
I LOVE MAGIC YUGIOH POKEMON DIGIMON BAKUGAN AND ARE MY FAVORITE 5
(I PLAY LIKE 20 DIFFERENT TCG BUT MOST DONT HAVE OTHER PLAYERS OR ARE KINDA DEAD T.T)
How can you be disrespectful? Would be pathetic fighting over plastic cards,
I think the people who hate Yugioh the most are former and current Yugioh players anyway
Professor: talks about how companions broke magic
Yugioh: laughs in extra deck
Then again, the extradeck improved the game.
@@megalithphul9542 And is now the reason the game is doomed.
@@megalithphul9542 ehh it's had had a couple of blunders here and there, namely, way too many boss monsters with effect negations that are easy to summon back to back because of very generic summoning requirements.
Anyone that says that yugioh is doomed just don't know anything about the game
@@fightinggamesandchill.5660 That's a pretty harsh statement here. Tell me a way in which this game can avoid going into an excalation of negates and counter-negates. Is doomed in the sense that 50% of the times is not even a game since the other person does not play. Is doomed in the sense that Konami will always want to go higher and higher... Cards that make the opponent skip main phases, that lock the extra deck, that banish from extra deck, then what? Cards that makes you special summon a monster from opponent's extra deck? Cards that make you shuffle your extra deck in your main deck and when you draw a monster you can summon it? Yu-gi-oh is going nowhere near a healthy game state. The only thing I could think of is to make so many cards that negate extra deck, that the meta will have to shift back to resorting to the main deck because now the opponent can lock you out too easily and you need main deck boss monsters. But don't tell me I don't know anything about the game, just try to prove your point with actual arguments. I expect an answer
I'd love another collab like this where Paul teaches The Professor how to play and vice versa
That would be great.
Although, modern Yu Gi Oh is insane to teach 😛
@@cylonsteve2511 Amen. I tried teaching Yugioh to a bunch of people back in high school, but only 4-6 actually learned it. The rest were absolutely confused and swore I just kept making rules up. Switching to MTG was hard, but I think it's much easier to learn for beginners. If you played Yugioh a ton though, it makes it a lot harder.
The way you teach yugioh is you explain the summoning mechanics (synchro is addition, xyz is two of the same, link is arrows, etc) then you ask for their favourite aesthetics and choose a deck that matches it
If they like cute things, Madolche. If they like mechanical, Rokkets or Salamangreat. Because if you specifically teach how to play the deck they like first the mechanics become easier to digest
@@cylonsteve2511 I don't think it would be that hard since both of them play card games for years already, and the people that watch their videos too. It could not be a 10min video but I'm sure that both Yu-Gi-Oh! players can learn MTG and MTG players can learn Yu-Gi-Oh! easily.
@@00031849 Perhaps you're right. I play both and taught both over two separate lunch beaks in work. Of course there was a lot more for them to learn, but the basics were covered.
Prof: we have counter spells in every set, but they can never be as good as the original counterspell
Mana drain: hold my drink
Exception that proves the rule ;)
Mana Drain came out in Legends dude.
Well... What about Force of Will/ Negation or Pact of Negation
with mana burn it wasn't strictly better, but now of course.
To be fair; Mana Drain was printed as a bad Counterspell, so the point does still hold up.
I love the faces they make while they are listening they look like “I don’t know what this guys talking about but I’m just gonna nod my head slowly.”
Lol
These kinds of comparative conversations are so undervalued. Looking at other design/community issues from other games really can help us think about our own favorite games in new ways.
A friend of mine was an avid Yugioh player. He once tried to introduce it to me. It's just too fast for me and my decisions too impactful. I'm impressed with everyone who masters that game.
Watch videos to learn and downlod duel links
So here's the thing with yu-gi-oh, you don't necessarily have to know the whole game or every stratergy. You basically just learn the one or two strats the your deck uses, and then you know almost every card you're going to play, and the order you're going to play them in, for every duel. It's pretty stale tbh
@@florencefaulkner782 that's scrub mentality. While you can win matches knowing 2 combos your deck does, the game is not only that. That's like saying "oh yes just put reclamation up and explosion during end step. It's pretty stale" or "keep any hand with monastery Swiftspear and bolt and you will win most games". To top an event, mtg or ygo you require much more than knowing in which order you play your cards and which cards to counter.
@@cortana_ I know it's more than /just/ knowing the meta and being able to afford the best cards, I was definitely simplifying a bit. I do stand by my point though, it least in my opinion I found the game v stale, haven't tried magic yet but I might give it a go to see how it differs
Just play mystic mine lol
My jaw actually dropped when I saw Paul in the thumbnail. Been watching Team APS even longer than I’ve been watching Prof. This is beyond wild.
I loved this, two intelligent, well spoken men having a conversation, not arguing over which is better
I'm a Yu-Gi-Oh player since the beginning of the TCG game, and have also played Magic during 2015 (Khan's of Tarkir block) and 2018-2019 (Guilds of Ravnica block). I primarily play at local events. This was a great discussion and is reflective of my thoughts and experiences on both sides of the game. They are very different, but I'd like to add that Yu-Gi-Oh has a greatly variant level of playability. At their best, Yu-Gi-Oh has an immensely large varied format that is extremely fun - rogue strategies being rewarded by being able to compete against bogeymen of the format. Yu-Gi-Oh tends to centralize around format-warping cards and strategies in almost every format (this is what drives the power creep and short-term secondary market price of cards) This makes it much more "fun" to potentially win against meta decks with unexpected strategies. However, since "every" format is warped around a small selection of top tier decks, it's easier for a Yu-Gi-Oh player to get fatigued and switch to magic where win rates are closer to 50%. This is why, I think, Magic has a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh players that make the switch. However, what I find appealing with Yu-Gi-Oh is that their main format is an eternal format - meaning that you can pick up a deck from 2010 and infuse it with new cards and archetypes to continue playing the game. Konami also tends to revitalize older archetypes with new cards. This, along with changing banlists that may unban prior banned cards, keep Yu-Gi-Oh exciting. But since power creep changes the format so quickly, Yu-Gi-Oh players tend to fall in and out of love with the game since we do not have a "reset day" when the format resets to a lower standard of power.
I think my favorite analogy is that Magic is Street Fighter, valuing small incremental gains in trades and advantage, while Yu-Gi-Oh is Marvel vs Capcom, focusing on very quick and showy games where a bit confirm, if properly executed, should result in a win in the hands of a professional. Both games are "fighting games" but play completely differently.
I'm not surprised Yu-Gi-Oh players would seem to switch more because of one thing, Yu-Gi-Oh is more accessible thus more people leave it. It makes sense because a lot more people come in through the TV shows and it's more played in schools and such the main route to getting into MtG nowadays is probably other card games. Yu-Gi-Oh players also mostly seem intrigued by MtGs number of formats, the only common reason to switch to Yu-Gi-Oh from MtG is being upset is standard balance, which is less common just because they might just temporarily switch to a different format.
Wow, that's a perfect analogy. I played Yu-Gi-Oh way back in the day, but have family who still play and it definitely seems like Yu-Gi-Oh seems more like a 's/he who connects first wins' type of thing. I prefer Magic (and SF) for the idea of small incremental gains and grinding through a match to hopefully win by the end. Seriously, you should be proud of that analogy, it's a really good one, lol.
As a long-term yugioh player (got into the game competitively right around the time of rulers/spellbooks), I can't really agree that rogue strategies are viable. They might be playable if other people are playing rogue or incomplete/sub-optimal meta decks, but from my experience, even back in the day during like, tellaknight/shaddoll/nekroz/qliphorts (my favorite meta of all time), rogue decks were very outclassed. You could play them and possibly win, but the matchups were never better than 60-40 (usually worse), meaning that if you wanted to win realistically you had to pick a meta deck. I will say, though, that rogue decks are almost always way more interactive than the top-tier meta.
On that note, aside from format's, the actual gameplay of yugioh has devolved a lot over the years. Almost every single top-tier deck became a vomit-hand-onto-the-field deck, some of the only exceptions in the last few YEARS were sky striker and true draco, but those decks were so incredibly power-creeped that it was impossible to compete with them outside of meta (that's probably the only reason that they were able to beat the combo decks in the first place lol. Full power true draco can go hand to hand, if not beat, full-power dragon rulers, which is REALLY hard to do in a grind game). Hand traps have become a staple of every single matchup, and a game can end before it even begins if you happen to not draw one, meaning that some games just feel like a lost coin flip (obviously it's not true all of the time, games can still be really interactive if both players stop the other from going off, but unfortunately it doesn't feel like it's enough in the majority). There's just very little decks that try to interact aside from running 1/3 of the deck as the exact same hand traps that every other deck runs, meaning variety is at an all time low, and unfortunately it has been that way for the last few years. If maxx C ever gets unbanned, almost every single deck will play 3 copies if it, if not in the main then definitely in the side. There are too many staples in yugioh nowadays that are requirements for playing in even local tournaments.
Magic on the other hand, has none of that. The standard format is constantly changing so you always feel like there's new stuff happening. If you get tired of that format, like the professor noted, you can just try a different format - probably even reusing most of your cards. Also there are self-policed formats like commander that are also multiplayer, something yugioh doesn't have and I'm not sure ever will. Yugioh might be balanced decently well from a skill perspective, in that you can win fairly consistantly if you are a good player, but that only mean's it's a better sport, not a better game. If you want to have fun, I can't recommend yugioh over magic anymore. Not unless konami makes some MASSIVE changes to the game, or you somehow manage to find a playgroup that is willing to play decks back from like 4+ years ago. Any format where hand traps are a necessity means that the game is too fast. You can argue against it, but in a game with no mulligans and an incredibly amount of consistency during your turn, relying on drawing specific cards to not "lose" the game before it's ever your turn (yea you don't actually die, but playing through 5 interruptions against a field that can kill you on the following turn is unrealistic) is not a good experience for players trying to enjoy a game of yugioh.
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PS: I really wish magic would adopt the term floodgate. Magic players call the cards stax pieces, yugioh players call them floodgates. I find it to be so much more fitting as to what the card actually does to the flow of the game. It's a wall that's holding back the massive explosion of combos/value-trains that are stuck behind it.
You remember sky strikers ??? Lol
Honestly in my own opinion, I play BOTH Magic and Yu-gi-oh, they both have strategy, awesome art work, cards that you cant get anywhere else, and great communities to go with them! Love this channel! And also love Team APS!!
Me too
both are good in their way but I fucking hate companions and pendulum !@#$
@@pantanom18 Pendulums have been nerfed or banned. They are not really a problem any more
@@erychfrankenfield5301 link monsters are now the problem
@@doncon_380 Not really. It is more archetypes rather than summoning mechanics. Links got nerfed by "rules change april 2020" or as the yugioh community calls it master rule 5.
As a former Yugioh player, this was a fun conversation. I'd love to hear a Pokemon one next
Haha Pokémon has no game only cool cards
Get jwittz!
Pokemon is too meta based. There aren't really any variety for competitive decks. Although you can say that about any card game, but I feel like pokemon is more meta game focused than other card games. Most stage 2 evolution decks are unplayable in competitive play since they take too long to set up vs a GX/V based deck.
Would love to see Joe from omnipoke
@@kongvang5359 i think that's mostly because Pokemon doesn't really have well defined color identities asides from fire pokemon dealing big damage while discarding energy, but everything that we see on a particular type will be seen in another type, example xyz energy transfer aromatisse can be done by quagsire and i think a starmie or golduck, ehrr golduck break? card from who knows what set, and then metal has like a bronzong or magnezone that's basically the same card for steel energy, so there's an strategy that's widely known as the best but different types will do it at different times, currently the one that's doing it is ADP, but well i'm not too well-versed in Pokemon tcg to go further in depth
Yu-Gi-Oh! is Magic but you cast Omniscience.
underrated comment
the fact that i actually have this card makes me laugh at this.
As lotus combo player : like...every match ?
Yes
And everything has Haste
Long time yugioh player, new magic player just getting into commander here! I have some points to add. The easiest way to understand the core differences between the two games is this (long but informative!)
1) yugioh has no color identities, and therefore powerful cards are generically played in all decks. Imagine if Force of Will said “banish ANY card from your hand instead of paying the mana cost” - Force of Will would be played in almost all decks. Yugioh has many generically powerful cards like this that are played in most decks. “Lightning Storm” as shown in the video is one such example.
2) With no color identities, yugioh strategies tend to be very explicit by design. Think of it like Tribal. Konami will print a powerful “Wizards” deck where wizard A gets an effect alongside wizard, B, so obviously you play Wizards A and B in your Wizard deck. But if you’re playing the “Zombie” deck, then the powerful wizard cards are useless to you.
3) because of 1) and 2) mentioned above, the cards you’re “supposed to play” for a given strategy tend to be fairly obvious - literally the names of cards that go together will all share a keyword. Therefore, especially at the highest level, the emphasis and fun of yugioh has to do with technical play and finding unknown “tech” rather than spending time and having fun building a unique deck (such as in commander) or digging through old cards trying to find synergy around a new card you like to incorporate into your older deck.
4) Yugioh’s extra deck is best described as a stack of 15 commanders, kept face down and hidden from your opponent. There’s a high emphasis on utility and power with creatures that come from the extra deck, and therefore yugioh decks tend to be more consistent because, just like a commander, you can play your power cards without drawing them. This explains much of the speed of yugioh compared to magic, other than no mana/resource system of course.
5) yugioh’s only (I.e. only officially supported) format is like Legacy, with basically all printed cards available for play aside from explicitly banned ones. In magic, how often do new cards really enter and change up the Legacy format from standard legal sets? Only a handful every year, if that, right? So to keep selling new sets and change up the format, Konami has to either outright ban the heavily used cards, and/or print better cards to keep the format changing. This explains yugioh powercreep and the large banlist.
In most other ways, the games are similar. There are control, combo, aggro strategies. Budget options are strictly worse than competitive ones, but you can make it work. It mostly comes down to preferences in art styles, lores, and general speed of the game that dictates which game is more enjoyable.
All of that said, after playing yugioh at a very competitive level for 6 years, I believe magic is a superior game and I will slowly be transitioning to Magic LOL
Very good analysis! I've never played either competitively but I've been playing both for a long time, and I agree with all your points. Even, albeit begrudgingly, with your point that MTG is the better game, in terms of balance and versatility. Although I do love my casual YGO decks (smacking a Quintet Magician down after several turns of build-up can be rewarding), I feel like MTG is more balanced overall and the turns are less swingy. But mana screw sucks, so I do absolutely love it that YGO doesn't really have a resource system. Such a cool thing to not have in a card game!
@@WhiteOwlet DNA surgery into super poly to bring out Quintet is so satisfying, very slow and bad but feels great in locals.
@@ryukenxx2 That sounds savage. xD Were it not for the price of Super Polys, I might try that, too, some day.
@@WhiteOwlet All this is so interesting to me. The idea of not having a resource system to temper what people can play when is wild to me. So if your opening hand has your biggest bomb in it, can you just immediately drop it onto the board and warp the game straight away before your opponent has a chance to do anything at all?
I had a main question that I got sidetracked from though, lol. Are there lots of bans in Yu-Gi-Oh? Like besides the last couple years, Magic generally doesn't ban cards often at all. Only when formats warp like crazy do they ban. I heard someone say that bans in Yu-Gi-Oh are basically its version of rotation, does that track? Like, how many bans on average are there a year or so?
@@enderalex300 I don't know too much about bans, but I think the current list has about 150 cards on it (that are banned, limited or semi-limited). Quite a lot, but considering that the format is basically vintage, I don't think that's very wild.
There are some ways to make cards "cost" in YGO (for example, you may have to sacrifice monsters or discard cards to activate them), but generally, yes, you can activate your strongest cards as soon as you get them. And with the extra deck, which is basically just 15 commanders, you usually have your strongest cards at hand. It's really interesting to see that play out, to me especially in the casual arena. From what I understand of competitive YGO, it's a lot of turn 1 kills. xD
Now THIS is the crossover I was waiting for.
Came here to say that
I play both games and the way I "meme" it is that they both teach you life skills. Magic teaches you math, while Yu-Gi-Oh! teaches you reading.
Someone hasnt played against Evilswarms
Bold of you to assume any Yugioh player can read
I want to play commander for mtg that’s about it but I mainly play yugioh
@@brandondowdy4220 same here standard and modern are kind of similar to yugioh in the way the decks and combos are played but commander it's an entirely different experience
Sadly your Yu-Gi-Oh assumption is wrong
The most common stereotype of Yu-Gi-Oh, as far as I know, is that none of them read anything.
This was a really cool discussion! As someone who played Yu-Gi-Oh! in its first US release when I was in elementary school, stop playing tcg’s in middle school, then picked up mtg in high school (and still play 10 years later), it was cool to hear how the early years of magic played and how Yu-Gi-Oh has evolved since I stopped playing
Magic: Goblins are Busted, they can close the game Turn 3!
YuGiOh: *Cries in FTK*
More like T0 kills with Dredge. And that's why we play modern!
Doesn't open hand trap *visable sadness*
Ayy you can 2nd turn kill in magic with manaless dredge
@@EvlEgle How many?
@@EvlEgle also reverse 1 round kills.
As a Yugioh and MTG player, I really appreciated this video. Thank you guys.
You play MTG and Yugioh? My god man, have mercy on your wallet.
"Do Magic players like WotC?"
*raucous laughter*
About sums it up really.
Yes, but (...)
that moment where a square of cardboard with some ink thats only 25 years old costs the same as a car
@@garagavia hey now it had to be stolen before becoming worth that much.
@@garagavia it is oil on poplar wood board.
I moved from Magic to Yu-Gi-Oh due to my social groups changing after college. I enjoyed the faster pace and combos much more than standard MTG. After I lost a safe place to play magic and Yu-Gi-Oh, I moved to Pokemon TCG which I feel like is a nice in-between. I love all of these games, I just can't ever seen to find a suitable social group to play with. Glad to see you're still going strong! Much love!
Seriously, Pokemon TCG is underrated and is on par with MTG in terms of balance, eh, somewhat. Much more balanced than YGO. I switch back and forth between Pokemon and MtG.
Before someone asks. What does Pot of Greed do?
Also Yugi Muto is a cheater. I hate that guy.
5:31
How silly of you, not knowing that POT OF GREED ALLOWS ME TO DRAW TWO MORE CARDS. I WILL START MY TURN BY PLAYING POT OF GREED WHICH ALLOWS ME TO DRAW TWO MORE CARDS. I WILL PLAY THE MAGIC CARD, POT OF GREED, WHICH ALLOWS ME TO DRAW TWO NEW CARDS.
Screw the rules Kaiba, you have money.
But, what does it do?
it wasnt even yugi, it was Atem/Yami the whole damn time. At the very end of the first series, when Yugi needs to beat yami, did yami forget that yugi was unconscious the whole damn time? how could he have learned anything?
_Card game to Video game comparison:_
*Yu-gi-oh: Is a fighting game that puts heavy emphasis on explosive damage and combos. Think Tekken 7.*
*Magic: Is a real-time strategy game, with focus on having a good economy, that gets pretty hectic in the late game. Think StarCraft 2.*
I don't know where you heard explosive damage in Yu-Gi-Oh most decks while they can otk normally choose to go first and set up negates
And depending on the handtraps can be a grind. Also Yu-Gi-Oh I would say is just as if not more card advantage focused
@@craterdestroyer3604 They literally discussed this in the episode that yugioh strays from card advantage you're contradicting the video
@@Nick-xo5mm I mean yugioh isn't as focused specifically on advantage simply because advantage is normally easy to acquire but it is a huge reason to why the meta decks are meta (because they have the easiest time plussng in advantage)
@@craterdestroyer3604 Not sure how I can explain it better except that what I mean by "explosive damage" is by doing very big things to minimize the threat as much as possible.
If you don't understand modern Tekken, this will be hard to understand. No worries though.
edit: i think of YGO as a turn-based fighting game. really look deep into that and you'll hopefully understand how i see it.
Honestly guys I’d love a sequel to this
The crossover no one dared asking for but everyone wanted
☺
In regards to the relation between Wizards and the players:
I recall when I was playing the un-sets with my friends and something wierd happened (as it should) and all I had to do was tweet at Mark Rosewater, I got a reply before it was my turn again.
Maro is a one-man PR machine. He basically answers hundreds of questions per day, just from his blog alone
Nice real man threre =)
I would absolutely love love LOVE a part 2 and even 3 or 4 of this discussion! I love comparing two games I've played heavily over my years of life. I used to play Yugioh casually as a little kid while I watched the show, in highschool there was a big resurgence in my friend group and we started playing competitive Yugioh and casual Magic. And now 7 years later my friends have moved completely away from Yugioh, and play competitive Magic
Ironically, this video got me back in to YuGiOh.
Really!? How ? they just talked about it in a such a bad way hahah but I’m glad u like it !
Glad to have you back lol
Nooo, brother, save yourself before it's too late!
Eww. Yu gi oh.
@@johnathanera5863 show some respect, for our cardboard collegues bro…
This is so cool!! I love both of your channels and I'd love to see this happen again digging into more nuanced differences in mechanics!
Not gonna lie, this was one of my favorite episodes ever :) I think the comparison was super captivating start to finish. Thank you Prof :heart emoji:
Here, ❤, copy it
Ending on Paul’s reaction to the cost of Black Lotus was perfect.
Also, I play both Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh!, and I love both the professor and Team APS. Keep up the great work, both of you!
After getting into Magic, I got recommended other card game channels like Team APS and enjoyed seeing the differences in the games. It's cool seeing some reps of the games interact in this way.
Yugioh doesn’t even credit its artists. That’s how little they communicate information
AliOf TheSand IK. It sucks cause I want to know who's drawing my favourite cards
Wow really
They started doing that on newer set actually
Aeris yeah i for one don’t really care. Lol I mean I guess they deserve the recognition but I’d never actually then look at that artist’s work.
That's probably because they don't want their competitors to get the info who did the art for the cards. Plus it wouldn't fit on the card since there is too much text.
As a Yugioh player, 25 minutes into the video, I can say that MTG has a stronger and more efficient business model. I would like to see Konami do things that the producers of Magic do, I don’t think they will , and I still love the game regardless. I also like host of the discussion. Great conversation.
I’m kinda moving from Yugioh to Magic since my roomate showed me the commander format! He brought me to this channel and to the guys from the command zone. I really love the commander format but i also love Yugioh for its speed and archetypes. For me, its kinda like: „i want to destroy my friends really quick“ so i play Yugioh and on the other hand, if i want to play hours and hours with several friends, i play the commander format. Basically, im playing Yugioh to win and having fun with the archetype decks and Magic for just having a really good time, no matter of winning or losing. So, both card games are really great for me!
Welcome to magic! Enjoy never having money but having the time of your life lol
C Dude i spended already like 1000$ on my decks lol! But i dont regret anything! :D
I am not even playing but I am moving from Yugi to MTG
@@Dream_Machine450 welcome!
@@scnylz hell yeah!!!!
It'd be nice to have a second installment of this, now that the professor has given a look at yugioh, and aps has taken a look at magic see their impressions of the other game in a more candit format how the games have grown over the last few years.
Seconded!
Also yugioh is slowing growing to have more of a 2nd format now that Edison events are being sanctioned by Konami.
This is something I never thought I'd see, and never knew I needed. I kind of want to see them discuss the comparison of game mechanics and such! Discussing what makes like...a Control deck in MTG, and a Control deck in Yugioh. I love both games for wildly different reasons, and I love seeing them both treated with respect and genuine interest.
Also, I'd pay GOOD money to see Prof play a game of Yugioh, and Paul play a game of Commander. Seeing two skilled TCG players trying out a new game, from the lens of an old one? Hell yeah.
A Pro Magic Player without Mana Limitations... He's probably gonna play Mystic Mine.
Yugioh has very loose concepts of control and aggro. Most decks are combo based that set up multiple negations for the opponents turn and then kill them on their next turn if the opponent failed to clear the board.
Closest thing to control are true draco or guru "control". Both rely on trap cards which restrict the opponents actions so called "floodgates" and then grind you out.
Guru uses its namesake subterror guru to generate advantage and disrupt you each turn while true draco get activate their effects based on the opponents actions to then get advantage.
@@luminous3558 as a former magic player and a current true draco player; can confirm any magic player playing a blue control deck would like true dracos
"THEY DO ARTICLES?!"
Had my man S H O O K
As someone that quit yugioh around 7 years ago after being in the game for a while and then transitioned to magic shortly after, (I'm now an entrenched EDH nerd and Cube builder) this video was a delight!
Multiplayer formats like commander and draft were some of the most unique experiences for me when I first started MTG, and was one of the things I wish yugioh could explore if it was possible. I think being able to "find a use" for old cards was also very appealing as well as more than one occasion where a Konami banlist disassembled a particular favourite deck of mine.
That being said I have very fond memories of the early days, and I would highly recommend anybody who has a similar nostalgia for yugioh to get into "Goat Format", as the "old school" equivalent to magic.
However, most importantly the sense of community in both of these games is outstanding and I am so happy to see our two worlds sharing information and learning about each other with crossovers like this one.
Thank you professor and Team APS for this wonderful content and fantastic insight into both of these games.
Despite whatever differences we have, we both love deck building, we both love our hobbies, we both love our LGS ❤️
This is one of the best collabs I've seen for a TCG community! It's so nice to see Tolarian actually discussing Yu-Gi-Oh! for once. And he got the most chill yugituber channel for it.
Professor at 29:00 : You can't do anything without lands.
Dredge in legacy: hold my beer.
Charbelcher: I'm with them
haha black lotus + lurrus goes brrrr
oops all spells
Man it's crazy to think that you can really just play magic without any lands if you wanna go that far. man dredge was a good name for that mechanic cuz playing no lands sounds dark and backwards.
What is Dredge? I just played MtG from Unlimited to Ice Age.
I played Magic until about 10 years ago, when I was in High School. I'm in the process of turning my then-Standard decks into casual Commander format decks. I started playing YuGiOh about 4 months ago and I find the fast pace and the more challenging deck building a lot more fun.
Same
I play Yugioh, but really don’t want to play Magic just because it sounds like their community is so toxic towards other card games, while most other card games treat others with respect
@@A-Link The Professor's community seems pretty chill but I have noticed that most of the Magic players in my neighbourhood snarl at the mere existence of any other card game than what they are playing.
One of them legit had a fucking breakdown when a friend of mine replaces all of her Mountain (red basic lands) basic lands with red energy from Pokémon... Demanded she change them back and refusing to play the game if she didn't.
magic is sloooooooow my dude! Not as slow as pokemon but still not half as satisfying as Yu-Gi-Oh! When I started playing yugioh I actually felt my brain get bigger just by understanding the concept of timing,spell speed,chain links, etc.
Jeremy Ranger I completely disagree i play both yugioh and magic and have played both with meta decks for both games (modern format for mtg and tricksters pre ban for yugioh). Modern games can be just as fast if not faster than yugioh and no yugioh deck I’ve seen comes close to the complexity of a modern deck like storm or meta decks in a magic format called cEDH.
Magic player: YGO sucks
YGO player: NOOOOOOOO
-
YGO player: YGO sucks
YGO player: we know
😂 😂😂
That's true, lol
The difference is in the first one says it exclusively out of elitism and ignorance, while the other one understand the situation of the game and actually has understandable arguments on why the game has flaws
@@tesseygo I think most of the time that holds true but many Yu-Gi-Oh players do still enjoy the game hence why they continue to play it. (I'm a Yu-Gi-Oh player who barely plays magic mind you{I tried it but it seemed a little too slow to play multiple times per week so I play like one a month at locals})
That's why you play YGO at a casual level with your friends. Playing competitive is a very linear style of play, it's mostly luck if the first turn player can set up a lockdown/negate board. Usually the 2nd turn player have handtraps to disrupt combos but if they don't have it, they are pretty much fucked.
But playing character decks slightly modified against close friends is always maximum fun.
@@FIRE-LOTUS Unless your friends also play handtraps all the time... My friends and I have decks that are anywhere between Top tier and table 500 but never really super casual kitchentable.
Playing both yugioh and mtg is actually a blessing while watching this.
Magic cards: 15 words to explain a whole effect
Yugioh cards: 15 words to explain a minor rule about one effect
One thing I think Yugioh suffers from is lack of keywords.
The original card that did the equivalent of trample spelled it out ("when this monster destroys a defense position monster in battle, inflict damage to your opponent equal to the difference between this card's attack and that monster's defense" or something like that). It was eventually changed to piercing damage, except from what I've seen it still spells out that the attacker is attacking a defense monster ("when this monster attacks a defense position monster, it deals piercing damage" or something like that).
There are many cards that have hexproof or indestructible or protection variants, and some are similar to another. But there is no single word/short phrase for "this monster cannot be the target of effects your opponent controls."
One interesting thing I do really admire about Yugioh is how they use names of cards as archetypes and mechanics. Magic's rules don't allow you to tutor for an archetype the way Yugioh does; Yugioh lets you play a Blackwing monster, or requires you to have a Nordic monster using cards that specify the presence of that word in the card name. Magic doesn't have such an equivalent, but it would be as though it says to tutor for an Orzhov card (defining it as White & Black OR has the Orzhov watermark OR has the Orzhov mechanic).
180 words to describe what a card does if the card is named Endymion (pendulum)
@@Barracius lack of keywords along with the small text box and small font is the main reason I don't play Yugioh
I can't afford to sit down and look at a card with a microscope for 15 min to try to understand AND remember what it does
OMG this! i played that trash game for ten years and still would get blindsided by BS rulings on effects that no one but a top end lawyer with several PHD's could understand on almost every single game!
@@Barracius The reason why it lack of keywords is due to the Japanese culture, where Yu-Gi-Oh is meant I know with any YGO player they won't agree with this, "It is meant to tell you want to do overall so if you're a new player you don't get discouraged as the effect tells you what you need to do and what happens"
I think before it was fine since cards weren't essays long effects, but with power creep and the games evolution it has gotten out of hand overall. I don't think any game is easy seeing how chess is hard to get into Shogi the Japanese chess game is the same way thinking about the moves and studying other people
Many Yu-Gi-Oh! players ask the question:
"What does Pot of Greed do?"
Short answer it give you too much ressource
Long answer it draws two cards
It's a weak version of Ancestral Recall.
@@solidkingcobra Idk, Zero mana draw two cards seems pretty good to me!
Love this comment.
@@solidkingcobra *zero mana* draw 2
As someone who has played both games, (I started with Yu-Gi-Oh in middle school, migrated to Magic in college, now I play both), I loved that you did this collaboration. Team APS was among the first channels I checked out after getting back into Yu-Gi-Oh in 2017.
You should check out Cimo. He used to play Magic too and does great Yu-Gi-Oh content. His deck techs kind of remind me of yours.
I come back and listen to this talk every couple months, such a great discussion. I think there's a lot of value to be gained from Team APS and The Professor collaborating again!
47:18 my eyes widened at the exact same moment Pauls did when he got told that the employees of WotC would sit down for a game with you at an event. I mean as much as i like the effort of konami reaching out to the bigger yugitubers in the last couple of months the difference between the two companys in this regard coudn't be any bigger.
I've seen Jerome McHale in particular from Konami play games with players at events. It's not common but it's not unheard of from the Yugs side.
Marvel: Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover in history
The Professor and Paul: hold our mats
As a Yu-Gi-Oh and a Magic player I have experienced both sides of this discussion. It was really fun to see Paul's reaction to how Wizards does things and then the professor's reaction to how Konami does things. XD
I have been playing both games for over ten years but until this discussion I did not think about the differences between Konami and Wizards, or the community for both games. Great video!
That eye-roll when learning about the price of a Black Lotus tho...
And he doesn't even know the most expensive copy is 5.9 million. Woulda been hysterical to see that reaction
Yugioh to me is very nostalgic of my childhood. Lots of fond memories in the late 90's/ early '00's.
While I do remember my older cousins playing MTG and gifting me a early edition Swamp. I loved the realistic artwork and the skull mana symbol.
I've been playing/collecting MTG for the past 5 years and loving it.
I would like to make a little note about the discussion of old cards being relevant. Something unique about Yugioh is that almost every set makes some older card either playable or relevant at that time, making something that was chaff previously be a valuable meta staple for that format. Because Konami loves to play on nostalgia, frequently your old cards can actually become extremely good or relevant thanks to new support. I think a great example of this is Destiny Hero Malicious, who originally was a pretty bad card, but when the game sped up and had the graveyard become far more of a resource suddenly jumped up to being a banworthy card.
Thunder Dragons are a prime example of this happening.
In general, do people like WOTC?
Prof: *laughs maniaclly*
KEKW
Time stamp?
@@fluffyssj2693 Around 38:00
With??
Wotc*?
I've played Yu-Gi-Oh for the better part of 15 years now, and have never picked up a magic deck in my life. But listening to this guy talk is so fascinating 🤩
I agree! Im a yugioh player but I have some Magic cards that a friend gave me almost 20 years ago but I never actually played. I like how this guy talks because he wants to make sure you understand the point he tries to get across. I genuinely like that he wants what’s best for the players and , in effect, the game
His videos are rather informative and go in great depth when learning to play.
I really love this. Yugioh is close to my heart growing up on the anime and playing the card game. I don't play the game anymore, but still collect some cards and sets. I mainly play MTG now and it's great being able to see both sides of the isle
This is the crossover no one asked for but we all needed it.
12:45
In terms of card effects changing, sometimes there are minor changes or mistranslations that can severely effect a card's usage.
A card like Topologic Zeroboros in the OCG (Eastern Meta) revives itself every Standby Phase (including the opponent's) where as in the TCG (Western Meta) it had a change/mistranslation where it only revives itself during YOUR Standby Phase. So instead of this monster coming back every turn you must wait a turn until it comes back on your own which can be dangerous as it is often used as a board wipe for the entire field leaving you potentially open to your opponent's attacks. Small difference but huge ramifications.
There are also slight ruling differences with card interactions and card effect timing. Recently the OCG has even changed some rulings with card effect timing to align more closely with the TCG. This was interesting as generally the TCG will change instead to align with the OCG since it has the original prints.
Also with different card pools and banlists this has led to general trends where the OCG is often more Control heavy while the TCG is more Combo heavy when it comes to the metas.
I believe Dark Law effect is different in the ocg as well
Let me hop in your comment in hope prof see this.
12:49 Paul missed what you heard prof. 2 years ago English team mistranslate 2 Altergeist cards (and subsequently how they were used) and fixed it after 3 months ( but Gandora X is still unfixed)
th-cam.com/video/BzWlYSxDFkA/w-d-xo.html
About region ruling, there is 1 difference ruling in TCG Europe vs NA. In NA for a card to ATTEMPT to activate its effect, it need to be in same place where it was suppose to activated while game state is open. Heres a video explaining this ruling difference in 2017 (after this) NA follow EU/OCG ruling
th-cam.com/video/1JT8wPBWj9k/w-d-xo.html
but THEN May 2020 OCG change to follow NA th-cam.com/video/cjiFeik3pvo/w-d-xo.html
I always felt like the OCG is a trial run and the TCG is where konami tries to get it right
The comparison that I like to make with my friends is that if MTG is chess, then Yu-Gi-Oh is Marvel vs. Capcom Ultimate in terms of pace
Well... that’s an accurate analogy.
yugioh is multiverse chess in comparison
@@ConeTheBoss559 You failed to realize how FAST you died in UMVC3 with a Lv 3 X-Factor Vergil. Like one happy birthday could kill your ENTIRE team in 10 seconds.
@@zhaoyun255 interesting
@@ConeTheBoss559 Just ONE MISTAKE, ONE FREAKING MISTAKE!!!
th-cam.com/video/ZdaSSVxf6vU/w-d-xo.html
Y'all need to do this again, it's clear there's too much both of you want to talk about, lol. I want to hear a discussion on how limited, specifically draft, influences MtG's set design where Yugioh is basically free to release three or four archetypes in a set and some other generic cards thrown in. You don't see yugioh sets throw in Alexandrite dragon because "every other pack needs a Level 4 Beater for the drafters," like you see in Magic's set design.
Magic also has much more focus on ongoing stories, with the sets and flavor text, which I think is a cool contrast between western fantasy and franchising strategies versus Japanese strategies. If Yugioh had Magic's sensibilities, we'd see a "Return to return to Hero City" every four years, with endless continuations of every protagonist's story past their anime to justify printing new Red-Eyes retrains. Can you imagine an entire set of yugioh where all the new archetypes are set in hero city, and they all reference GX characters' decks? We'd end up learning that Burstinatrix had a voluntary abortion, Flame Wingman identifies as nonbinary, and the heroes combine the Superquantum mechs with the VWXYZ retrains to defeat Armada Dragon Level 10, after Yubel (recurring antagonist) starts puppeteering it with the Shaddolls. Actually that sounds dope as fuck someone tell Komoney.
Likewise, if Magic had Yugioh's sensibilities it would write the anime for the Gatewatch first, give each character signature creature summons and spells to market to kids, and then make cards based on the developments of character's decks/magics in the show. Every set would be like an anthology of new and updated Signature Spellbook, but for every planeswalker in the current season.
Yugioh occasionally has concrete stories told entirely through card arts, but they never make it a selling point. Recently the World Legacy story lasted for the entire Link era with characters growing and changing alliance and backstabbing, etc. Until the protagonist sacrificed himself after achieving his ultimate form.
Awhile back there was the Duelist Terminal storyline, where constant war eventually corrupts the divine protectors (Vylons) and the warring factions unite (big highlight to the moment they fuse into a Normal Non-effect monster to defeat them since they could counter Effect monsters). But their defeat releases a virus (Evilswarm) that seeks to destroy. The dragons of the Ice Barrier are awakened to combat the virus, but become corrupted. Aliens (Satellarknights) come to save everyone, but start losing so people decide to awaken the God of Creation. God swears to reset the world so anime powerups happen by harnessing the virus and they kill god.
In the finale everyone who died in the previous war is revived as evil puppets (Shadolls) and they storm the sacred tree. The tree releases robots (Qlifort) to restore peace. During the battle, the heroes use the power of the 3 dragons of the Ice Barrier and dead God to seal the Shadolls, but this power corrupts the Qli programming turning them into world destroying monstrosities. (Infernoids! my fave.) The heroes perform fusion dance and kill all the Noids but miss one, who then destroys the 3 dragons and fuses with the sealed Shadoll. The heroes combine the souls of the fallen to create a lance that kills gods. They defeat the enemy, but its head survives and retreats into the sacred tree, where the God of Destruction was sealed. Before escaping the tree, 10 heroes (the recurring characters) are chosen by the tree for the final battle and its kind of epic.
Sorry for the massive lore dump, but its pretty close to what you're asking for and not enough players know about it.
Tl;dr: People fuse to kill gods
@@garymcginnis8511 there's a lot of 'but then they narrowly escaped!' In this story but holy cow I thought the orcust/mekk-knight/on and on lore was long
MTG going woke sucks though.
Hey Tolarian,
I’m a fan of Team APS, that’s how I have come across this video. I started off as a casual Yugioh player, playing around my house and as school very freely, no ban list with just cards that I had from random boosters and structure decks.
At a point it had gotten different with new mechanics and the cost of packs adding up for me, so I had stopped playing it.
Fast forward a few years into highschool my friends had gotten me into magic, namely the small console digital games and I had started with that. I really enjoyed it being taught the game in a more fair way with limited card varieties and felt that it was balanced and could not be abused with really degenerate combos, except the blue self mill style, but I learned to counter that. With it being digital and not having to spend money more than once as well as being able to play matches with a tutorial handy made the game a great starting experience.
I had gotten back into yugioh last year and it was tough relearning all the rules and having all of my cards outdated. The driving force that brought my return was the same reason I started playing, the show. That was a point that was not brought up that I felt should have.
A lot of us enjoyed some of most of the show from our childhood and that ties into some of the cards. The famous ones dark magicians, blue eyes, red eyes etc.... I feel Yugioh was targeted towards children with the show but many of us want to remember the fun we had with cool cards and fun memories as children.
Then reality hits, the show and game mechanics do differ. Not just the era we play in (Master Rules) but also other rules such as not drawing on the opening turn or normal summoning in face up defence. Then there’s speed, fast combos with multi protection is the way to go, nothing wrong with that, but the more consistent and successful strats take up a lot of the local meta as well.
Perhaps that is because of the time limits for the matches, but that isn’t necessarily a problem either. I digress, my convoluted point is that you end up seeing a few top decks in all levels of the game with low diversity and representation with the focus on quick kills, which can make the game not fun after a while if you consistently make the same plays over and over again. The creativity of different styles is refreshing in stale metas and makes the problem solving more rewarding
I wish there was a way to make older archetypes a little more viable and make the game a little simpler and cost effective to newer and returning players.
Over all I am into Yugioh even more than before, and it takes a little bit to understand timing and chain order, but that mental stimulation is rewarding once it is understood properly.
He's very smart. I wish he was part of the Magic community!
After I stopped playing YGO competitively I decided to try MTG right on time for the Zendikar draft. Landfall for life. From there Standard was easy to plug into competitively, but it lacked the charm of draft. I was on and off with MTG from there, but I really had a blast drafting Khans. Last time I played MTG was drafting Conspiracy: Take the Throne.
Now I'm playing Master Duel wondering why I can make shrimp scampi before my opponent is done with their first turn.
A clarification about magic reprints: MTG has staple common card that get reprinted every 3ish sets, the rule:"non reprints" applies only to expensive cards. The cheaper ones are reprinted only in order to keep them in standard.
You look like a banana
e
@@ender3530 why 2 responses?
A lot of those staple commons are reprinted more for draft purposes rather than constructed formats.
looking at u Evolving wilds and shock staple commons like Duress get's reprinted almost every set as well
The one thing they do right is make cards:
Looks at foils...
Oh, he means designing the cards!
I started off playing YGO and still do. I consider it my primary game. However I love Magic and have been playing it forever as well. (tbh I play like every card game) Tho I come from your audience, Prof. I don't really watch Team APS much.
One thing I find though is that if I talk to a Magic player about the games they play they just play Magic. They probably play multiple formats though. They always talk down on other card games with such disrespect.
When I talk to YGO players about the games they play they always respond with at least one other game if not more. There's often times imense respect for the elements of both the games they play and don't.
@Jerry Smith yeah I do agree with that I played pokemon since I was 8 and I stopped cause I just couldn't kkep up with rotation. I have been playing yugioh after I got in the 7th grade. I'm 18 now. The one thing that I don't understand is why some mtg players (not all players) just disrespect other card games even if they have played them. I play a crap ton of commander and love it. But some of the people I have played with have been extremely toxic to me for playing yugioh, and so I don't want to play commander with players I haven't played against. Yeah some times the game gets dried out. I even stopped playing yugioh for about 6 months cause I was upset with the format.
@@megas_ol6501 it is mostly what you said. Some Magic players tend to look down on YGO _because_ (not even if) they used to play it. I used to play competitive YGO and went to a couple national tournaments in the past with some success. This was from around 2008 to 2015, so I do think I am not wrong if I say I've seen _some_ of the worst formats the game has ever had.(Tele-DAD, Plant turbo with the burn FTK way back when, Wind-Up loop in its prime, Spellbook, Dragon Rulers to name a few).
My actual point is that once you get annoyed at the current meta of the game, there is no escape in YGO. You can sidedeck something, sure, but it doesn't make it fun to play against a certain deck when you have to switch 9 cards between matches unless you are playing a tier 0 deck yourself, and even then it felt like a grind. There is also the fact that older archetypes fall so hard from the game that it is close to impossible to play against most popular strategies with, for example, an X-Saber deck(do not @me on that one, In haven't been following if sabers have had new support after Gottoms' Second Call). This is a huge problem because you really can't usually just pick a playstyle that seems fun because you will get stomped most of the time, unless you actually want to play with a handicap of course.
Then there is the completely subjective problem called handtraps. I liked it when the handtraps in the game were those that ended the combat, Effect Veiler and Droll & Lock Bird. Ok there was Maxx "C" which was absurdly broken but it got banned eventually. These days there are multiple choices, and you pretty much _have to_ run 3 Ass Blussum and No Joys to do anything against any match-up, ever, at least according to my friend who still plays the game at the same level and from what I have experienced from a couple games I've played online. Traps used to be a thing for a reason, now there is not reason to have actual set cards most of the time, because hand traps do the same thing but can't be interacted with when they are in hand. I just do not like this mechanic and never truly have.
Then the format problem. Of course there are solutions, like the goat format for example, but that gets old very fast. This is a difficult problem because there aren't really other supported formats. If someone made up an idea for a new format and a couple dozen people would make it work and posted a lot about in, for example, reddit, it could fix the problem, but who would go through all that trouble when the idea would probably not reach that many people anyway and people might not care about it enough to make it matter.
Even though these problems in the game are pretty huge for me, I still love to play kitchen table YGO from time to time, but with the up-to-date banlist of course. I have a couple decks sitting in the shelf and a friend of mine sometimes wants to play, so we do that and usually enjoy the times we do. But the problems remain, and I will most likely never return to Yu-Gi-Oh because of these reasons.
@Jerry Smith Yugioh has several alternative formats. Not as many as mtg granted but mtg has more formats than Los Angeles has homeless.
Back in the day at school when I played a little bit of YGO I never really understood it and it seemed inherently broken to me, since the stronger monsters seemed unbeatable with my limited card pool. When I tried out magic I just never had that feeling and now I am playing EDH (a Magic format) since several years and am loving it since you can be extremely creative and individual in deck building.
So I guess the reason why I always looked down on YGO a bit is that it just was never able to speak to me with cool art work and archetypes as well as the fast play style.
@@Orkimtor I hate that about ygo and never played mtg lul
Great podcast. Hopefully you can do that again every couple of years. Some of the answers would be so different.
"What's the most played format?" I never thought that would be a hard question to answer.
I assumed it was commander at this point tbh at least in the Uk every LGS I see has its own group of different formats they play but nearly everyone in that shop has a commander deck
Commander and Draft.
@@mangohub3252yeah, my LGS in the uk, the commander night was always RAMMED full of people in a tiny store. Like 30 + people.
Me and my freinds play both yugioh and magic: the gathering and have lots of fun playing both. But magic has some spark to it that makes me want to continue playing.
Pretty sure it is the balance of the game not going crazy turn one
Yu Gi Oh non existent mana system makes for fucked up turn 1 ftks
But yugioh has the anime. The most fun times is being like the anime.
@@jorieboy11 funny thing is that the guy who made the anime actually wanted to do magic in it but couldnt because of rights and stuff so a new game was spawned... interesting stuff
I think the thing I noticed with Magic is that the cards are just evergreen. A lot of useless pack filler and power crept cards exist in Yugioh that would never see play ever again unless Konami went out of their way to print 10 new cards to synergize specifically with it. A fuckton of old Magic cards exist that, while not the best at all times can still be splashed into new decks. Cards from the '90s still hold up almost 30 years later because of something involving their type or CMC or color or whatever that can splash into something decent. Yugioh has none of that, so you're just left waiting for support for your old deck if you still want to play it 5+ years later.
I shared Prof's laugh when aske dif the community loved WotC
I don’t dislike WotC , I dislike Hasbro.
Skrew Hasbro
"Would you say people like wizards?" *Hysterical laughter*. Yeah, pretty much it.
"would you say that people like Wizards...?" I don't think anyone in wotc really knew the meaning of savage roast until now haha that was wild
Seems a bit overblown. None of my mtg friends see Wizards as a dumpster fire. Annoyances/ gripes sure
@@naramoro I'm not sure how else to describe the company that diddles the secondary market the way they do. Secret Lair prices? Core 2021 artificially scarce good mythics? I don't even believe WotC has their heart in a good place. It's a huge ass money grabbing scheme. Especially after hearing how a popular card in Yugioh got reprinted 4 times in a year until it went from 80 $to 3$
Everything in yugioh gets reprinted lol
@@hexx_4093 Seriously. The one thing I can fault Yugioh on as far as their printing policy is their tendency to short print, which is very sleazy. But their reprint policy is amazing. Players know there are always going to be dedicated reprint sets every year and that the majority of the year's hot cards will be in it. That's something I think WOTC could learn from.
@jvalex18 Depends psy frame gamma sees alot of play and it's reprint made it go from around $15 to a couple cents.
it's not even rlly a japanese thing, Konami just treats its game like a corporate business. Pokemon credits their Japanese artists on every card, YuGiOh keeps theirs completely anonymous, which is a shame b/c there is a lot of card art I enjoy and wonder what other cards that artist has worked on or possibly even get a autograph but we may never know. And this goes into other things like card designs, etc.
One card artist I know of for yugioh is Akina Fujiwara. I found out about her in an interview on the ygo Amino. She's the one who drew the artwork for the Traptrix and Charmers.
I think that the problem is that Takahashi have the royalties, so they cannot put the artist in the card because afterall the design is from Takahashi.
“Nothing can be as powerful as the original counterspell” RIP Mana Drain
Mana drain original was the weaker version of counterspell. Bc back then manaburn was a thing so it's intended to give you damage after countering some big spell....
@@Nico_enni Huh, never realized that, lol. Wow, that's wild that just changing one simple rule took it from being a weak counterspell to being the ultimate counterspell.
Force of will crying in the corner
Turns out they could do Liliana of the Veil again
just for it to end up mid the second BRO dropped
@@rczg Truuuuu
And it turns out that it's hardly even good enough for pioneer let alone modern and legacy lmfao
@@asdfghjkl2261power creep be a bitch like that.
Wish they talked about rarity/foil differences honestly
Yeah. I'm getting more into Magic from Yu-Gi-Oh. Finding out how much Foil is disliked in magic is weird. Seems like WoTC doesn't get it. Although I think Pokemon does foil well.
@@jessArcade is cause wizards foiling technique for cards Suck compared to pokemon and ygo
Magic foils arent any worse than pokemon or yugioh foils. Every foil, from every game, has a metal "foil" layer in them to make them shine. Over time moisture in the air causes the cardboard to expand slightly while the foil inside the card wont expand, causing the card to curve or bow a bit. For competative play, cards that bow or curve (99% caused beacause its foil) are counted as "marked cards" and can be disqualified from your deck. With that explained, magics foils arent worth much more that their non foil varient in most cases not all cases.
I guess what I mean is magic hosts a billion more tournaments and local friday magic nights locally. And you just dont want people to worry about you cutting straight to a card in your deck
@@mashafasha5796 You arent wrong but you arent 100% right either. The EU, America and Japan all get different kind of foiled cards (Talking about YGO). European cards are known to bend faster and more than the American. The way the cards are made is a big factor. Your statement about tournaments is just wrong. You get a game loss if your cards are slightly bend or even one corner of your sleeve is damaged. Even though this is a big fear, YGO player still love having decks at full max rarity. Frankly, you just seem to like to justify bad foiled cards.
I actually actively play both Yu-Gi-Oh! AND Magic: The Gathering at tournaments, and they both sometimes blend into each other, but then there’s things that stand out, this all really made sense and I’m glad it happened
Which one u prefer
@@lordvoldemort1729 Honestly, it just depends on my mood
Hello, can you please elaborate on the main differences and what stands out as well as pacing and general fun? Thank you!
@@MonkeyDPirateKing Well, while both games have been kinda powercreeped to be very fast, Magic is definitely a slower game compared to modern yugioh. These days, modern yugioh is full of OTKs and FTKs, things that are either impossible in Magic due to the mana system of the game (unless you’re playing a format like commander), or take at least a couple turns to set up. Yugioh gameplay is accelerated considerably more due to it nor really requiring any sort of resource. Often times, if you wanna play a card, you just…play it. Sometimes cards have special requirements to be played, but more likely than not people can find ways to get around those requirements, such as needing to sacrifice a monster in yugioh for a tribute summon. Why do that when you can play a spell or trap card (or use the ability of either the monster you want to summon or of another monster) to just special summon it, since you get infinite special summons? Normal summons are supposed to be the limit to how many monsters you can summon in a turn, but the game has been dominated so much by special summons that now it’s barely limiting. Magic doesn’t have that problem. You can cast as many creature spells as you want, but the limitation is that you have to have the mana to spend on them, and if you don’t, tough luck. Yugioh also resonates a lot more with the anime crowd compared to Magic, due to the game originally starting off as a random game in the Yugioh manga called Duel Monsters, but readers loved Duel Monsters so much they wanted to play it, and that got turned into the trading card game it is today. Whereas Magic moreso resonates with fans of stuff like Lord of the Rings as well as D&D. D&D IS made by the same company that makes Magic, after all. And while there can be fans of both (like myself) often times I see they don’t really mix very well. Usually people who stick to one don’t really like the other. I had a friend that I always played Yugioh with at locals. One day he started showing up to Friday Night Magic, but he stopped coming after only a few weeks, and told me that Magic was not really his cup of tea, which is totally fine. As for which one I find more fun, it honestly is a coin flip based on my mood. With Yugioh, there’s really only one main format (the equivalent of Magic’s standard, but no rotation), but I enjoy playing Commander more than any other Magic format. While yes, Yugioh does have other formats (most notably Traditional where you can play up to one copy of any banned card and Goat Format which was one of the formats in the early 2000’s that people still love like people love Windows Xp) but often times when Yugioh players are referring to a format, they are referencing the card pool after the new banlist changes. Magic’s formats are different ways to play the game, whereas Yugioh is pretty much always played the same way. Yugioh bans cards a lot more frequently because the game is so much faster and so many cards can make the game unplayable. Whereas Magic only needs it when a new card is too powerful cuz the old stuff gets rotated out every year (aside from eternal formats like Commander but that’s a whole different beast). Despite all of this, they are both great and I couldn’t imagine my life without either of them.
TLDR: Yugioh is faster cuz there’s no resource to manage, and which one is more fun depends on my mood, but both are great. Also sorry for the word soup, I love both of these games a LOT
@@endruler8625 Thanks for the reply. It was a nice read. I used to play yugioh back when stardust dragon was in every deck, I remember playing the fairy deck with master hyperion, then they released archlord chrystia in a box and made the deck even stronger now with a possible special summon block. But I see that now yugioh is much faster, there are hand traps and things that happen in the damage step and so on. I tried duel links, while I had some fun, I really wanted to play real yugioh and then they announced master duel. At the same time a friend introduced me to commander that we play on tabletop simulator and it's really fun and I was wondering if standard was worth it knowing that cards rotate out eventually. I'll give it a try on MTG arena and see.
I do appreciate a lot of parts to magic but I’ll always love the ideal of Yugioh more. I’m a sucker for Synchro and fusion summoning, I love to imagine playing the cards like from the anime and like all corny junk like believing in the heart of the cards and such.
It’s all very lighthearted whereas magic feels not quite like that, at least parts of it. Magic feels like it’s simultaneously wants to be campy but also wants to be taken seriously, it’s meant to be more mature and formal. It’s like comic books where we’ve gone from silly stories to grim dark themes and within magic no one can seem to agree on which side is right; what’s the proper balance.
I like ritual monsters :/
Agreed 100%.
I play yugioh and magic. I love both games. I'm so happy Prof and Paul decided to make this video and have this conversation. They both have such a great way of communicating and speaking for their game that it is incredibly enjoyable to listen to.