Pastor Doug's analysis of the divide in Evangelicalism is spot on. As a member of an SBC church, many of my SBC friends did not see the divide coming until the middle of 2020. Even now many of my fellow SBC friends don't understand why I chose to consume material from organizations like Canon Press, Apologia, and Ligonier rather than organizations like the Gospel Coalition, 9 Marks, and T4G. Left of center pastors who don't understand the divide continue to push left of center resources. I was told by a Pastor that the issue of woke theology is really just a distraction and the issue that really matters is whether or not a resource or speaker is reformed. Many pastors who hold such positions are constantly pushing against the use of conservative social media resources by their non-woke conservative congregants, even while pushing their own left of center resources on social media. As a reformed evangelical, I like reformed resources, but being reformed doesn't atone for the doctrinal error of CRT or the sin of partiality.
It's tough to swallow the constant antinomianism pervading most church congregations now. One would have thought rampant lawlessness and burning cities would be a wake up call, but no. They sympathize with the lawless.
You should’ve seen the Founders booth at the SBC annual meeting this year. It was the hub of conflict-and it wasn’t Founders instigating. That whole event taught me that I’m more of a Presbyterian than I am Baptist when it comes to fellowship.
@@romans6788 as I wrote that I knew someone may question it haha. I’m referring to who I get along with better in terms of theology and ministry as a whole. I’m pretty firm in my Baptist covenantal stance, but I’d rather listen to, learn from, and spend time with Presbyterians over most Southern Baptists. Fortunately the reformed Baptist movement is growing though.
I’ve been thinking about this for years and it’s getting only getting worse. Scary that Doug comes to the same conclusion I do: something is gonna happen but I have no idea what.
“I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living. I believed, therefore I said, “I am greatly afflicted.” And in my alarm I said, “All men are liars!” Psalm 116:9-11
I am grateful for you Doug! BTW, thank you for sharing Wade with us and most surely for your continued edification of the ‘active’ type. Like active listening, there’s knowledge that activates and prompts each Christian to evaluate themselves earnestly. You, my brother, are an instrument of that sort of thought and a wadi in a barren bankrupt culture. Bring on “No Quarter November”! #NQN
“Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.” (Jude 1:3-4, 19 NIV)
My biggest concern about this divide is the further damage to the church's testimony about Jesus. John 13:35 tells us that people will know we our His disciples if we love one another. We already do so much hating of one another it will only get worse. I believe, the hearts hit the hardest in here will not be the James Whites, MacAurthurs or those followers of theirs that exhibit very little care for humans, it will be the small town pastors that tirelessly labor in forgotten corners weeping over the lost. Many of these Christians will end up despised by the blue and red evangelicals, as they already are.
The only major division I see going on is not political, but theological. I live in Boston and Majority of Churches here are falling into the camp of Progressive Churches. And that is leading people into New Age practices. They do hide behind Communist faith statements, but their theology is filled with New Age Oneness.
Jesus has no political affiliation. He has His own Kingdom. We need to start acting like citizens of that place and not like the world. Friendship with the world is enmity with God.
That’s a strawman argument that’s been spewed by false teachers like Tony Evans. The Bible says “occupy till I come”, if Christian think pretending we don’t need to understand what’s going on in the world in which we live, we lie and do ourselves and families a disservice. If nothing else revealed this COVID has. We know Jesus has no political affiliation, but as yourself if Jesus or the Apostles were strangers to political atrocities. Your last two sentences are legalistic and condescending. How do you suppose human being not act like humans? How is participating in civil duties acting like the world. How is being equipped with biblical worldview and understanding, being enemies with the world? I guess Christians should sit silent while 65 year old men can share the bathroom with their 8 year old daughters? I guess Christians should just lay down and accept government overreach and enforcement of vaccines etc? Your statement may sound spiritually mature , but it’s actually lacks the wisdom the Bible speaks of and the discernment the Lord blesses us with to understand the times.
Random thought I had recently, can we not also interpret the fault lines of 50/50 splits and the slog of indecisiveness that stems from it as a sign of having 'balance' between the political poles?
If you check out what has happened to Nini’s Deli in Chicago (look them up, the documentary was very well done), you will find that one of the churchgoers observed that those in their church in Chicago that were sympathetic to masking, distancing, shutting the church down, etc. during the beginning of the pandemic were the same ones that left the church over refusal for the church to adopt leftist ideologies… not saying this is a full blown method but it was a pattern I was able to determine the divide within my own church in California. Yes, there is a small army here in California holding fast to Truth!
I'm picking up what you are laying down Pastor Doug. I'm more aligned with baby baptizing post mil folks like yourself even though I'm a credo baptist a-mil tongues praying dude 😂
@@johnbreitmeier3268 arguably, suffering through the fall of civilization without being killed in the streets and only paying 30% more for travel is a massive step up over Roman persecution
@@horrificpleasantry9474 As far as the Fall of civilization, that is just starting. I can also tell that you are a spoiled, well-off American brat. Try life in Baghdad, Nairobi, Kabul, or for that matter Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, London, or Stalingrad in WWII or Verdun in WWI. We have killed more people and destroyed more cities in our “just” wars for peace in the last 120 years than existed in 70 AD. As for ending Roman persecution that came at an unpleasantly horrific cost - that of accepting Constantine’s offer to BE Rome’s State Religion and the secular control that went with it. That led to Popes on thrones selling salvation and the persecutions of the Spanish Inquisition. That was NOT spiritual progress. In the past 50 years and especially in the past 20 our churches have become very liberal and very corrupt again. To many of us the persecution seems likely just around the corner based on forced useless vaccines and adherence to Critical Race theory. So Arguably, things are getting bad and looking like a lot worse to come. Do you want to live in Australia or Canada right now?
@@johnbreitmeier3268 things looked pretty bad in 1340, 1863, 1930 also. Your listing of examples leaves out contrary examples which I won't belabor. We actually don't know how bad it is until we look back. There's a great chapter in Joel Rosenberg's book Epicenter which discusses the Soviet Union and the attitude of whether it's worth it to try to spread the gospel there. The guy's premillennial. His comments about so the things they have been made possible in the 30 years since the wall fell are very worth considering. Even if the world is ending soon, do we stop trying to take dominion in Christ's name?
Define your terms and I'll argue. I very much love Doug Wilson and his preaching and will disagree vehemently with his opponents/adversaries but still can't agree with any notion that a truly biblical "evangelical" (Evangel/Gospel=Good News) could accept the "red state" vs "blue state" concept so foreign to Christ's absolute authority of free grace that is the real, true Gospel/GoodNews: Isa_65:1-2,24; 1Jn_5:16, Rom_10:20-21, Rom_9:25-26, Hos_2:23; 1Pe_2:10, Isa_55:5-6
Imagination is the only God in man who does it all from belief to disbelief by the natural mind, heaven its there, hell its there a hint about inside man who look and wait for God to come outside and love to judge like some are lost, first Adam blind.
Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”
The Lord said it long ago. He will separate the sheep from the goats. Period! That is what’s coming all over the world. The a-millennial view should be obviously debunked since the world is not better because of the Church being present. The Lord is refining His bride.
@@wretch1 scriptures is part of the 3 legged stool of the church. The holy bible is a declared canon of the Catholic Church in the 4th century based from its Sacred Tradition, the holy bible is unbiblical itself. Isn't it ironic that sola scriptura disproves itself from scriptures?
Why! America isn’t supposed to be first to us Americans? Enjoy your $4 gallon of gas. And mandatory jabs. And the eventual gulags the Feds will put us in.
@@chuckcribbs3398 if amerikkka ends up ruling the entire world but loses its soul how is that in anyway a "christian" way to exist????? Then you and yours wonder why me and mine HATE YOUR GUTS
You are a troll. Only leftists call any person a trumpkin or Qtrumplican. Your mistake is thinking that anyone who doesn’t support your ideas is a person with no brain. You act as if we are mindlessly following any leader that is conservative (or simply disagrees with you). The truth is that we find our leaders by the ideas we have. Not the other way around. I’m afraid your critical thought abilities are a bit 2-dimensional.
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Pastor Doug's analysis of the divide in Evangelicalism is spot on. As a member of an SBC church, many of my SBC friends did not see the divide coming until the middle of 2020. Even now many of my fellow SBC friends don't understand why I chose to consume material from organizations like Canon Press, Apologia, and Ligonier rather than organizations like the Gospel Coalition, 9 Marks, and T4G. Left of center pastors who don't understand the divide continue to push left of center resources. I was told by a Pastor that the issue of woke theology is really just a distraction and the issue that really matters is whether or not a resource or speaker is reformed. Many pastors who hold such positions are constantly pushing against the use of conservative social media resources by their non-woke conservative congregants, even while pushing their own left of center resources on social media. As a reformed evangelical, I like reformed resources, but being reformed doesn't atone for the doctrinal error of CRT or the sin of partiality.
I think it's time to start that blog, Paul. I mean it. By God's grace, you can write. Pray about it and seek the Lord and see what He says. God bless.
It's tough to swallow the constant antinomianism pervading most church congregations now. One would have thought rampant lawlessness and burning cities would be a wake up call, but no. They sympathize with the lawless.
You should’ve seen the Founders booth at the SBC annual meeting this year. It was the hub of conflict-and it wasn’t Founders instigating. That whole event taught me that I’m more of a Presbyterian than I am Baptist when it comes to fellowship.
@@JosephsCoat can you explain the "more Presbyterian than Baptist" comment related to fellowship? Sounds interesting.
@@romans6788 as I wrote that I knew someone may question it haha. I’m referring to who I get along with better in terms of theology and ministry as a whole. I’m pretty firm in my Baptist covenantal stance, but I’d rather listen to, learn from, and spend time with Presbyterians over most Southern Baptists. Fortunately the reformed Baptist movement is growing though.
most brilliant Doug Wilson advice ever: ""Let's wait and see, whatever it is, it's gonna be something" LOL
@@yeboyi28 and only thise with ears hear both men...lol
I’ve been thinking about this for years and it’s getting only getting worse. Scary that Doug comes to the same conclusion I do: something is gonna happen but I have no idea what.
“I will walk before the LORD
in the land of the living.
I believed, therefore I said,
“I am greatly afflicted.”
And in my alarm I said,
“All men are liars!”
Psalm 116:9-11
I am grateful for you Doug!
BTW, thank you for sharing Wade with us and most surely for your continued edification of the ‘active’ type. Like active listening, there’s knowledge that activates and prompts each Christian to evaluate themselves earnestly. You, my brother, are an instrument of that sort of thought and a wadi in a barren bankrupt culture.
Bring on “No Quarter November”!
#NQN
this is the symptom of the false sola scriptura doctrine = Division, confusion and fragmentation. A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND (MARK 3:25)
No rupture only apathetic acquiescence
I’m a Fight Laugh Feast guy :)
Let’s call it The Great Falling Away Paul predicted.
this is the symptom of the false sola scriptura doctrine = Division, confusion and fragmentation. A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND (MARK 3:25)
@@alfray1072 So you’re a Catholic thats still mad about the reformation? Get real, that happened over 500 years ago.
@@hannahrenee9870 deformation paved the way for secularism/ communism and je_wsh apostate rule, are you ok with this?
Please save me, God.
“Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.” (Jude 1:3-4, 19 NIV)
I must admit last week I actually called myself a Ligonier Guy.
My biggest concern about this divide is the further damage to the church's testimony about Jesus. John 13:35 tells us that people will know we our His disciples if we love one another. We already do so much hating of one another it will only get worse. I believe, the hearts hit the hardest in here will not be the James Whites, MacAurthurs or those followers of theirs that exhibit very little care for humans, it will be the small town pastors that tirelessly labor in forgotten corners weeping over the lost. Many of these Christians will end up despised by the blue and red evangelicals, as they already are.
The Aphrodite ritual at the fast food place reminds me of that satirical story about such a situation that Credenda published years ago. 😂
@5:14 I’m a Doug Wilson fan, but I am neither of Doug Wilson nor of Appollos. God gives the increase 😃
DIVIDED YOU WILL FALL AND ALL THE KINGS HORSES AND ALL THE KINGS MEN WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PUT THE CHURCH BACK TOGETHER AGAIN
"Unless there's a Reformation revival...." Wouldn't the Reformation revival BE the rupture? Like it was in 1517?
this is the symptom of the false sola scriptura doctrine = Division, confusion and fragmentation. A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND (MARK 3:25)
The only major division I see going on is not political, but theological. I live in Boston and Majority of Churches here are falling into the camp of Progressive Churches. And that is leading people into New Age practices. They do hide behind Communist faith statements, but their theology is filled with New Age Oneness.
Jesus has no political affiliation. He has His own Kingdom. We need to start acting like citizens of that place and not like the world. Friendship with the world is enmity with God.
Yes!
That’s a strawman argument that’s been spewed by false teachers like Tony Evans. The Bible says “occupy till I come”, if Christian think pretending we don’t need to understand what’s going on in the world in which we live, we lie and do ourselves and families a disservice. If nothing else revealed this COVID has. We know Jesus has no political affiliation, but as yourself if Jesus or the Apostles were strangers to political atrocities. Your last two sentences are legalistic and condescending. How do you suppose human being not act like humans? How is participating in civil duties acting like the world. How is being equipped with biblical worldview and understanding, being enemies with the world? I guess Christians should sit silent while 65 year old men can share the bathroom with their 8 year old daughters? I guess Christians should just lay down and accept government overreach and enforcement of vaccines etc? Your statement may sound spiritually mature , but it’s actually lacks the wisdom the Bible speaks of and the discernment the Lord blesses us with to understand the times.
What is that intro music? I love it.
God Don’t Never Change by Ashley Cleveland
@@Mauro-mv6np Thanks Mauro! 👍
@@Mauro-mv6np it's so spectacularly weird and funny the way it's clipped
Does anyone know what this song is called?
Time to separate the wheat from the tares
Random thought I had recently, can we not also interpret the fault lines of 50/50 splits and the slog of indecisiveness that stems from it as a sign of having 'balance' between the political poles?
A balance between morally apathetic jingoism and outright blood sacrificing satanism? I don't think that's anything to strive for
@@horrificpleasantry9474 I find many views of the Republican party to be lopsided.
If you check out what has happened to Nini’s Deli in Chicago (look them up, the documentary was very well done), you will find that one of the churchgoers observed that those in their church in Chicago that were sympathetic to masking, distancing, shutting the church down, etc. during the beginning of the pandemic were the same ones that left the church over refusal for the church to adopt leftist ideologies… not saying this is a full blown method but it was a pattern I was able to determine the divide within my own church in California. Yes, there is a small army here in California holding fast to Truth!
I'm picking up what you are laying down Pastor Doug. I'm more aligned with baby baptizing post mil folks like yourself even though I'm a credo baptist a-mil tongues praying dude 😂
I am a Ligonier/Desiring God/ Canon press/ John MacArthur/ Voddie Baucham guy! 😆
Be careful with desiring God.
@@elizabethlburgess3947 what's wrong with John Piper? I love his ministry.
Greetings Doug, what book are you using for the study of hamartiology?
Sifting
Doug isn’t this in revelations separating the false church from the real church?
Depends on whether your interpretation is idealist, historical, or futurist. If the former, certainly.
And the trouble is Doug thinks that happened in 70 AD and now everything is just getting better and better,
@@johnbreitmeier3268 arguably, suffering through the fall of civilization without being killed in the streets and only paying 30% more for travel is a massive step up over Roman persecution
@@horrificpleasantry9474 As far as the Fall of civilization, that is just starting. I can also tell that you are a spoiled, well-off American brat. Try life in Baghdad, Nairobi, Kabul, or for that matter Berlin, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Tokyo, London, or Stalingrad in WWII or Verdun in WWI. We have killed more people and destroyed more cities in our “just” wars for peace in the last 120 years than existed in 70 AD. As for ending Roman persecution that came at an unpleasantly horrific cost - that of accepting Constantine’s offer to BE Rome’s State Religion and the secular control that went with it. That led to Popes on thrones selling salvation and the persecutions of the Spanish Inquisition. That was NOT spiritual progress. In the past 50 years and especially in the past 20 our churches have become very liberal and very corrupt again. To many of us the persecution seems likely just around the corner based on forced useless vaccines and adherence to Critical Race theory. So Arguably, things are getting bad and looking like a lot worse to come. Do you want to live in Australia or Canada right now?
@@johnbreitmeier3268 things looked pretty bad in 1340, 1863, 1930 also. Your listing of examples leaves out contrary examples which I won't belabor. We actually don't know how bad it is until we look back. There's a great chapter in Joel Rosenberg's book Epicenter which discusses the Soviet Union and the attitude of whether it's worth it to try to spread the gospel there. The guy's premillennial. His comments about so the things they have been made possible in the 30 years since the wall fell are very worth considering. Even if the world is ending soon, do we stop trying to take dominion in Christ's name?
Define your terms and I'll argue. I very much love Doug Wilson and his preaching and will disagree vehemently with his opponents/adversaries but still can't agree with any notion that a truly biblical "evangelical" (Evangel/Gospel=Good News) could accept the "red state" vs "blue state" concept so foreign to Christ's absolute authority of free grace that is the real, true Gospel/GoodNews: Isa_65:1-2,24; 1Jn_5:16, Rom_10:20-21, Rom_9:25-26, Hos_2:23; 1Pe_2:10, Isa_55:5-6
this is the symptom of the false sola scriptura doctrine = Division, confusion and fragmentation. A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND (MARK 3:25)
Imagination is the only God in man who does it all from belief to disbelief by the natural mind, heaven its there, hell its there a hint about inside man who look and wait for God to come outside and love to judge like some are lost, first Adam blind.
Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”
What happens to the soul of aborted babies
The Lord said it long ago. He will separate the sheep from the goats. Period! That is what’s coming all over the world. The a-millennial view should be obviously debunked since the world is not better because of the Church being present. The Lord is refining His bride.
Of course it’s better! Are we not the light of the world!
Peter that's post-mil not a-mil.
this is the symptom of the false sola scriptura doctrine = Division, confusion and fragmentation. A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND (MARK 3:25)
Uses scripture 😂
@@wretch1 scriptures is part of the 3 legged stool of the church. The holy bible is a declared canon of the Catholic Church in the 4th century based from its Sacred Tradition, the holy bible is unbiblical itself. Isn't it ironic that sola scriptura disproves itself from scriptures?
Any trumpkins from here on forward are and will always be my mortal enemies
Why! America isn’t supposed to be first to us Americans? Enjoy your $4 gallon of gas. And mandatory jabs. And the eventual gulags the Feds will put us in.
@@chuckcribbs3398 only you and yours will be sent to the camps
And how soon trumpets forget that gas was $5 under emperor weed. You call him w
@@chuckcribbs3398 if amerikkka ends up ruling the entire world but loses its soul how is that in anyway a "christian" way to exist?????
Then you and yours wonder why me and mine HATE YOUR GUTS
@@frankhenry587 what's your point?
You are a troll. Only leftists call any person a trumpkin or Qtrumplican. Your mistake is thinking that anyone who doesn’t support your ideas is a person with no brain. You act as if we are mindlessly following any leader that is conservative (or simply disagrees with you). The truth is that we find our leaders by the ideas we have. Not the other way around. I’m afraid your critical thought abilities are a bit 2-dimensional.