most of the FSR 3 artifacts are not present in XeSS running on the same old GPUs so there is still room for improvement on FSR 3.x, even if FSR 4 is exclusive, I hope they don't abandon a compatible mode, and keep improving, just a good temporal denoiser like XeSS will be miles better than we have now
AMD always brings their technology, like FSR, to all GPUs, and from a gamer’s point of view, that’s awesome. However, as you mentioned, to be more competitive, they sometimes need to make it exclusive and focus development on optimizing it for their own GPUs. Hopefully, AMD makes a strong comeback soon, and we see a competitive market again.
Most of us don't know how these technologies work but people love to assume like they know but they don't. I love having discussions over differences of opinion in the matter but we know these ML based technologies are designed around specialized hardware. Even if you look at XeSS, it works much better on Intel's cards using the hardware it was designed for than DP4A fallback. I think at this point AMD focused on making the best upscaler that they could and IMO it was the right decision despite making some people mad.
I still feel like they should've taken different approach, people buying Radeon know they aren't getting em for upscaling or RT, but price to performance, even if FSR4 turns out to be as good as dlss, and they managed to improve RT performance, if they price it like usual, -$50 from Nvidia, it won't change much, people that wanted upscaling and RT will still choose Nvidia, so far based from the latest leaks i think they gonna price it right this time, but again it's AMD, i won't be surprised if they fumble RDNA4 as well, regardless of leaks.
@@TerraWare There is little reason to be optimistic, so far FSR has never been really good and it still lacks a counterpart for Ray Reconstruction. Look at Intel with XeSS they have even been forced to lower the quality of the individual presets per resolution, because the performance-hit is too much and also no one know the FSR4- Frametime costs yet! ...
@@Abenteuerlich Oh yeah for sure, there's still a lot we don't know about FSR 4 but its one very important feature AMD needed to improve and image quality wise in this one game in a limited presentation it looks much improved. What the latency cost is and how it does in other games and even how quickly it is implemented in current games remains to be seen, all which are quite important.
@@TerraWare The image quality definitely looks promising, but I'm still skeptical, it needs more research on how robust it works in more difficult scenarios and how good is the handling for disocclusion, motion sharpness, transparency or particles, but an ML approach is definitely commendable, an important step, but that alone is not enough, it needs more movement in progress.
My problem with MFG is that it's only useful with 240hz or higher panels and it's basically the only improvement the 5000 series has over 4000, except for maybe a slight non-FG power improvement. They didn't do much to help games hit 60 fps pre-FG, which is the real struggle with modern games. Like what's the point of MFG if a 5070 can't hit 60 fps with path tracing and/or is VRAM constrained? Sure it's great for 5090s, but the majority of people can't and shouldn't buy 2000$ GPUs. Don't forget 4x FG has been possible with LSFG for a long time now and as I said, is useless if you can't hit more than 60 fps without it or have a monitor with 144hz or less. That said, reflex 2 was by far the most impressive and interesting part of Nvidia's presentation and it's not getting that much coverage unfortunately.
MFG is great for the newer high refresh rate displays, that was my conclusion. It's not particularly a feature I'm that excited about. I'm m ore excited about improvements with DLSS, Mega Geometry sounds cool, Ace and a bunch of other stuff. We still need to see proper benchmarks too. If there's a 30% increase in performance over previous cards and lower cost that's not bad.
@TerraWare from the benchmarks, it seems the 5080 is about 17-18% better than the 4080 with RT and without FG. So it's a 4080ti instead of a 4090. I expect similar increases across the product stack. Considering they aren't giving any extra VRAM and MFG is useless for 144hz panels, the 5000 series doesn't really offer much for anyone not buying a 5090.
@@Godmode_ON24I still need to see way more. 5090 especially because it's got a massive bump to memory speed as well and like to see how that advantage impacts performance at high resolutions with RT as well. Even if it's overall 20% better performance across the stack we got some price reduction too which is not a great generational improvement necessarily but much better than what we thought. I expected price increases but this is all subject to change once we get third party thorough reviews and comparisons. I'm excited. We got a lot of features I provident on PC I feel
Youre right with the features and softwares. I guess we dont have to hate nvidia for their choices regarding mfg and dlss. But its sad to see that newer games arent running that smooth anymore cuz of the latency. Also there isnt any noticable upgrades over the last gens anymore. Only the flagship models are really profiting of these launches. I hope game developers prefer optimising over blaming again especially AAA titles. Maybe we also hit a wall in this technology. Only time will tell.
Either way Nvidia innovating on new features and improving already existing features only pushes AMD and Intel to keep up. It's a win win for everybody. As far as their upcoming GPU's according to their charts which we do need to see more its around a 20% uplift at minimum across the stack for 50 to $100 cheaper than last gen. That's not bad. I was expecting a price increase considering everything else's price has gone up but that's just me.
We need to see how it performs in other games - PSSR was good too on previews before launch, but turned out often more of a flop. I just hope FSR4 (upscaler) being good and even see it the most crucial feature of upcoming Radeons. It's simply because we buy GPUs to play games in prettier graphics and higher fps. Pretty graphics is nowadays ray tracing and higher fps uses help of upscaling. Radeons' problem for now is being worse than competition at both.
We do need to see more it's true and how quickly it is implemented in games. It's also RDNA 4 only so its going to take a while for it to get to the hands of a lot of of people.
Ratchet and clank is actually the worse for FSR, prior to ML based FSR4, it got lots of transparency effects, particles which led to ghosting, detail loss, and flickering/shimmering, based from what i've seen, it seemed it fixed all those issue, though since there's no fps counter i really can't say about it's performance, it probably cost more than FSR3.1 and hence why they still keep it under wrap, makes sense since it's only been like what, less than a year that they've been working on it? even DLSS needed time to be as good as it is right now.
@@TerraWare slighlty better than 4080s at raster and only 10 % slower at rt if the benchmarks are true? for 479 $? take my money AMD. this will be my first AMD card since the 9800 Pro when it still was ATI...
@@wanshurst2416 i had the exact same idea as you lol, i was thinking 5080 and then i saw how good the 9070XT is (apparently), if the price is appealing i will buy it immidiately.
I think that they touted all previous versions of FSR so heavily and they all turned out to be promising but ultimately underwhelming. In some cases, AWFUL. So they are being careful this time and don't want to over-promise and under-deliver again. How serendipitous that this time they have something amazing on their hands
Well FSR4 is like admitting Nvidia was right all along: DLSS 4 Transformer model is available to all RTX GPU and all DLSS2 games, meanwhile FSR4 is locked to RDNA4 and 0 game support atm.
Yeah I agree. I wish they'd done this much sooner but they decided to split their gaming and productivity GPU's. Better late than never but the reality is it will take some time before it gets in the hands of many people and many games.
False information. Fsr4 will be in all games that already have fsr3.1. rdna4 has a algorithm that detects fsr3.1 then applies fsr4 to it. This could mean a driver base toggle system. I believe fsr3.1 is in 40+ games and counting. Fsr4 is also not "locked" to rdna4 indefinitely. Rdna3 and older do not have the same capabilities as rdna4, which was reworked from the ground up. More time is needed to find a algorithm that works with rdna3 ect. Nvidia already had the hardware capabilities from the 2000 series so of course it would be a simple transition for them. AMD is pretty much starting from scratch.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks " rdna4 has a algorithm that detects fsr3.1 then applies fsr4 to it" where did you hear this? That it's not going to require integration or developer update like all other previous FSR versions before it?
@@TerraWare I read a article from pcgamers, which was alluding to it. I didn't say fsr4 won't need developers integration. rDNA4 has a "fsr4 upgrade feature" which is only for the 9070 series. This upgrade feature allows games that already has fsr3.1 support to be upgraded to fsr4. Developers integration probably will produce a overall better quality either visually, performance or both. If fsr4 is in Zero games, then what are people looking at in ratchet and clank?...this is the fsr4 "upgrade feature". Call of duty black ops 6 will be done via developers implementing not through the "upgrade feature" as we see in ratchet and clank. It will produce even better results visually or performance wise or both.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks I see. Sounds more like speculation to me. I don't see how it could work without a developer update and I've tried to keep up with anything said by AMD people through interviews. That would be something worth advertising but it wouldn't be the first time Radeon drop the ball when it comes to advertising their advantages lol.
Looks great & especially AMD made the right choice in choosing performance mode FSR to show it off Since that's terrible imo on FSR 2 & 3 Frank Azor confirmed they waited for Nvidias show to be over and will be talking about FSR 4 in the coming weeks btw
This interview with AMD's Frank Azor addresses a lot of it. Really appreciate his level of transparency. Basically, FSR 4 requires more processing horsepower. That's why it will be limited to the new generation of cards. According to him, AMD knew there's only so far they can go with software alone for FSR3.x. AMD will be doing a showcase event around their new GPUs soon. th-cam.com/video/2p7UxldYYZM/w-d-xo.html
I saw it after uploading the video. I guess that makes sense although I was looking forward to AMD swinging before Nvidia. It is what it is. As long as the card is good and is priced right it can turn out to be a good product.
Without watching the video yet, they were obviously sandbagging Nvidia, they wanted to see what nvidia would to so they could come out swinging. They will announce it all at once properly, hopefully sometime soon. 9070xt between $479-$499 that's over 20% ahead in raster with more vram and about on par with the 5070 in RT, and a big improvement with Fsr, i think they're coming out swinging and want to do it properly with all the attention on them. Just my thoughts lol ok now time to watch this video 😊
If 9700 XT costs $499, then it will be roughly on par with 5070, maybe 5% faster. If it is 10-15% faster, then it will cost $549. FSR 4 and better RT performance will let AMD price their cards a bit higher this time, since it makes them more competitive.
@TerraWare yep it's all lining up, I really hope Amd gets a win for once. They're under new leadership so this could only be a good thing. I hope, otherwise its a second hand 4080 super for me lol
@@PCgamingbenchmarktime Yeah I hope so too. They are on the right path although if you care about RT I still think the 4080 Super would probably be ahead, especially with PT but that's just a guess, we'll find out in time.
@TerraWare oh yeah the 4080 will still beat in RT. I was just behind the 4070ti super in Rt on the leaked speedway benchmark, i have no interest in RT though, im happy with it being performance in games that require it. I don't think RT is worth using just yet until they can make more efficient and the hardware is there and the denoising is improved lol mayb by the time the new consoles come out it will be in a better place
That has its own challenges though. We saw it with RX 7900. I dont think we're there yet where MCM makes sense for consumer gaming GPU's although realistically I do feel that will probably be the next step if they can iron out the latency challenges. Monolithic is a proven method.
5:32 People don't hate software or the tech they hate lying openly about performance and saying 5070=4090. If they can't make a 48sm card faster, maybe they could make a 60sm card and call that 5070 instead. Of if they don't want to do that, maybe they can just come out and say it's 20% faster and that's ok, but just don't lie! FG can be usable at some cases and it's a welcomed tech, but the new one is BS and it exist just for marketing. If they wanted to make something useful they would have focused on makin the generated frame faster not adding 2 more frames to it. Or in other words if : FG off = 60 rendered frames and FG on = 50 rendered + 50 generated try to push it to 57 rendered + 57 generated not 40 rendered + 120 generated This exists just for this ugly marketing!
I guess Microsoft Windows gives more software devs tools vs linux absent in ai tools. Amd gives up on Linux community its sad when nothing is moving forward for game devs
Because those "people" who are upset about DLSS/FSR/(upscaling or fg in general) aren't real. They are just youtube commentator who complain about everything.
@@張彥暉-v8p There are of course some things worth discussing but yea you are right for the most part. A lot of oversensationalizing, TH-camrs cashing in on the topic.
@TerraWare Discussing the up and downsides of those new tech is great. But on TH-cam, most of the comments are just blindly supporting or hating on those tech, full of swearing and personal attack, which leads to nowhere lul.
I agree. AMD should've introduced ML based upscaling much sooner but with RDNA 2 they decided to split their productivity GPU's and gaming and I felt that was the wrong decision but maybe it was necessary for them I'm not sure. Switching to ML based upscaling was inevitable imo.
what are they going to do? That is not concern of mine. They take money to figure this out. Im not paying for their problems Im paying for product. You cannot play games on fake frames alone no matter how u slice it. For frame generation working properly you need base frames. They are generated and 3 other frames are copypasta of the real one. We should not use same terms for generating frames. normies will buy this in impression of real performance, its not and they are asking money as if it was. Next generation we will just download frames from cloud for 5k dollars. There is bruteforcing way, as they were used for decades, and there is optimization ways as are being implemented. Its easier to let customer to pay for they shortcomings. We had better looking games in motion in 720p era. Engine optimizations are needed, because we have this trash UE5 and others. Lumen was supposed to be the thing and now they introduced megalights. And even after that we will see something new. It will be the same as rasterization optimization, that is where real gains were. If developers want to break 5090 into teens of fps 10-15 they just need to add more rays and samples and not even 4x frame generation will cut it.
Even xess is better than FSR and Intel just entered the game. Anyone still hoping that AMD finally gets FSR into a usable state is deluding themselves. FSR is shit and always has been.
you have no clue what you are talking about. FSR's problem is that it's not hardware based compared to the other two upscalers. this will change with FSR 4 and therefore you will have similar results compared to DLSS and XeSS. DF already did a small video about FSR4. seems like they basically fixed all problems DLSS had with 3.5 and therefore FSR4 and DLSS4 should be quite on par...
Even if AMD pulled it off i don't think it will change your mind, this video literally showing FSR4 improvement using ML, and the quality is as good as dlss.
Thanks for mentioning that idiotic outcry about Frame gen/upscalers. ESPECIALLY coming from the so called "tech" youtubers. Like I don't understand... it's a new and exciting technology, don't they have their channels focused on that? Don't they understand how process nodes work, as you said? I'm much more excited about new stuff than raw power that hit its limits, there's not much they can squeeze from rasterized graphics. I bet those people are conservative backward people that always fight ANY change.
I'm a realist. Obviously it's popular to say fake frames are bad, they should've given us 50% more power for half the price. Its like saying there shouldnt be world hunger for example but people who say things like this don't offer a realistic solution or an alternative that makes sense. Without a massive node shrink architectural changes alone can't make up for that big of an increase. Nvidia and AMD would have to increase chip size even more which is is very expensive if you also take into account defect rate increases with larger die size. It would consume more power whicn is more components, beefier cooler + more. GPUs do a lot of other things than just gaming now. It makes sense to use that additional utility in features as technology advances. This has always been the case with gaming, different ways of doing things, tricks to make games look more realistic etc. I personally don't much care for MFG but I'm not bothered in the slightest that it exists. Its fine. Besides regular FG was improved so was DLSS model, RR, DLAA and so much more but MFG does have its place in the arsenal of features for some. I hear people use AFMF on top of FG. MFG would be a good tool for those people especially with higher refresh rate displays. Negativity and complaining for the sake of it sells unfortunately so you will see a lot of content like that. Its easy to make, you can repeat the same thing over and over. Not in my book. I only make videos about things I'm interested in and passionate about. If I get less views than so be it.
After CES 2025 I have Zero respect to Nvidia, its just hard to believe how much they mislead, try to fool everyone. They think we are stupid. Hopefully new FSR will be close enough to Dlss.
They all do it. These are businesses. The best thing to do is learn the marketing languages, and wait for actual releases. I'm still on the fence as to wether or not PC gaming is getting better or not. Never thought I would ever see benchmarking of GPU raw performance will include Upscaling at performance mode with multi frame generation.
Zero respect for Nvidia but hope FSR is as good as DLSS? So who pushed AMD to give you this better version of FSR? And more so why are they doing it? Why aren't AMD just creating this monster pure raster beast of a machine? Why are they copying Nvidia with upscalers and framegen that you have no respect for Nvidia for creating, but you have respect for the company that copies it?
It won't. AMD has had nearly a decade to get FSR up to snuff but even Intel popped in out of nowhere with xess and blew fsr out of the water. FSR sucks and at this point I have no faith in AMD to get it to a useable state. Also, AMD does the same bullshit on their spec sheets as nvidia did.
@@COMMANDandConquer199 the only difference is all the other solutions were using machine learning. Now all solutions are on a level playing field using machine learning. Now a more balance comparison can be done. But the end goal is everyone can have a good enough solution if needs be. It seems like this will be the case.
I mean that's marketing for you. Good marketing is showcasing what you have in the best way possible and when it comes to marketing Nvidia are some of the best at it lol. The one thing I saw people take issue with was "5070 is as fast as a 4090 only with the power of AI" so it's not technically a lie but its also not the whole truth. I do feel that misled some people for sure at first glance. I didn't like the way that was phrased personally. On the other hand the improvements to DLSS and the many other gaming focused features Nvidia showed was actually really exciting. I don't care to respect any corporation, they only want my money and that's fine. I care about the product and what it can do for me.
most of the FSR 3 artifacts are not present in XeSS running on the same old GPUs so there is still room for improvement on FSR 3.x, even if FSR 4 is exclusive, I hope they don't abandon a compatible mode, and keep improving, just a good temporal denoiser like XeSS will be miles better than we have now
AMD always brings their technology, like FSR, to all GPUs, and from a gamer’s point of view, that’s awesome. However, as you mentioned, to be more competitive, they sometimes need to make it exclusive and focus development on optimizing it for their own GPUs. Hopefully, AMD makes a strong comeback soon, and we see a competitive market again.
Most of us don't know how these technologies work but people love to assume like they know but they don't. I love having discussions over differences of opinion in the matter but we know these ML based technologies are designed around specialized hardware. Even if you look at XeSS, it works much better on Intel's cards using the hardware it was designed for than DP4A fallback.
I think at this point AMD focused on making the best upscaler that they could and IMO it was the right decision despite making some people mad.
I still feel like they should've taken different approach, people buying Radeon know they aren't getting em for upscaling or RT, but price to performance, even if FSR4 turns out to be as good as dlss, and they managed to improve RT performance, if they price it like usual, -$50 from Nvidia, it won't change much, people that wanted upscaling and RT will still choose Nvidia, so far based from the latest leaks i think they gonna price it right this time, but again it's AMD, i won't be surprised if they fumble RDNA4 as well, regardless of leaks.
@@TerraWare There is little reason to be optimistic, so far FSR has never been really good and it still lacks a counterpart for Ray Reconstruction. Look at Intel with XeSS they have even been forced to lower the quality of the individual presets per resolution, because the performance-hit is too much and also no one know the FSR4- Frametime costs yet! ...
@@Abenteuerlich Oh yeah for sure, there's still a lot we don't know about FSR 4 but its one very important feature AMD needed to improve and image quality wise in this one game in a limited presentation it looks much improved. What the latency cost is and how it does in other games and even how quickly it is implemented in current games remains to be seen, all which are quite important.
@@TerraWare The image quality definitely looks promising, but I'm still skeptical, it needs more research on how robust it works in more difficult scenarios and how good is the handling for disocclusion, motion sharpness, transparency or particles, but an ML approach is definitely commendable, an important step, but that alone is not enough, it needs more movement in progress.
My problem with MFG is that it's only useful with 240hz or higher panels and it's basically the only improvement the 5000 series has over 4000, except for maybe a slight non-FG power improvement.
They didn't do much to help games hit 60 fps pre-FG, which is the real struggle with modern games. Like what's the point of MFG if a 5070 can't hit 60 fps with path tracing and/or is VRAM constrained? Sure it's great for 5090s, but the majority of people can't and shouldn't buy 2000$ GPUs.
Don't forget 4x FG has been possible with LSFG for a long time now and as I said, is useless if you can't hit more than 60 fps without it or have a monitor with 144hz or less. That said, reflex 2 was by far the most impressive and interesting part of Nvidia's presentation and it's not getting that much coverage unfortunately.
MFG is great for the newer high refresh rate displays, that was my conclusion. It's not particularly a feature I'm that excited about. I'm m ore excited about improvements with DLSS, Mega Geometry sounds cool, Ace and a bunch of other stuff. We still need to see proper benchmarks too. If there's a 30% increase in performance over previous cards and lower cost that's not bad.
@TerraWare from the benchmarks, it seems the 5080 is about 17-18% better than the 4080 with RT and without FG. So it's a 4080ti instead of a 4090. I expect similar increases across the product stack. Considering they aren't giving any extra VRAM and MFG is useless for 144hz panels, the 5000 series doesn't really offer much for anyone not buying a 5090.
@@Godmode_ON24 We'll see soon enough what the actual gains are in multiple games/resolutions.
@@TerraWare yeah, I guess. I'm not expecting much. The +18% is from someone on the 3DCenter forum manually counting frames on the DF video.
@@Godmode_ON24I still need to see way more. 5090 especially because it's got a massive bump to memory speed as well and like to see how that advantage impacts performance at high resolutions with RT as well.
Even if it's overall 20% better performance across the stack we got some price reduction too which is not a great generational improvement necessarily but much better than what we thought.
I expected price increases but this is all subject to change once we get third party thorough reviews and comparisons. I'm excited. We got a lot of features I provident on PC I feel
in 3-4 days will be the "big announcement" , I just hope a really agressive price to compete
Yeah looking forward to it.
Youre right with the features and softwares. I guess we dont have to hate nvidia for their choices regarding mfg and dlss. But its sad to see that newer games arent running that smooth anymore cuz of the latency. Also there isnt any noticable upgrades over the last gens anymore. Only the flagship models are really profiting of these launches. I hope game developers prefer optimising over blaming again especially AAA titles. Maybe we also hit a wall in this technology. Only time will tell.
Either way Nvidia innovating on new features and improving already existing features only pushes AMD and Intel to keep up. It's a win win for everybody. As far as their upcoming GPU's according to their charts which we do need to see more its around a 20% uplift at minimum across the stack for 50 to $100 cheaper than last gen. That's not bad.
I was expecting a price increase considering everything else's price has gone up but that's just me.
We need to see how it performs in other games - PSSR was good too on previews before launch, but turned out often more of a flop. I just hope FSR4 (upscaler) being good and even see it the most crucial feature of upcoming Radeons. It's simply because we buy GPUs to play games in prettier graphics and higher fps. Pretty graphics is nowadays ray tracing and higher fps uses help of upscaling. Radeons' problem for now is being worse than competition at both.
We do need to see more it's true and how quickly it is implemented in games. It's also RDNA 4 only so its going to take a while for it to get to the hands of a lot of of people.
Ratchet and clank is actually the worse for FSR, prior to ML based FSR4, it got lots of transparency effects, particles which led to ghosting, detail loss, and flickering/shimmering, based from what i've seen, it seemed it fixed all those issue, though since there's no fps counter i really can't say about it's performance, it probably cost more than FSR3.1 and hence why they still keep it under wrap, makes sense since it's only been like what, less than a year that they've been working on it? even DLSS needed time to be as good as it is right now.
i aimed to go with the 5080 but man the 9070XT looks really really interessting....
It is
@@TerraWare slighlty better than 4080s at raster and only 10 % slower at rt if the benchmarks are true? for 479 $? take my money AMD. this will be my first AMD card since the 9800 Pro when it still was ATI...
@@wanshurst2416 i had the exact same idea as you lol, i was thinking 5080 and then i saw how good the 9070XT is (apparently), if the price is appealing i will buy it immidiately.
@@fourty9933 absolut nobrainer when the leaks are true ^^
What I really want to know is what did you think of Jensens new RT jacket?
It's insane. The ray reconstruction was on another level 😄
@@TerraWare I'm sure he's in league with the venom symbiote.
They said why yesterday. Because they wanted to see what their competitors had. I think it was PCWorld who had and interview with them yesterday.
Yeah I saw that after I'd made the video.
@@TerraWare Yeah, I think everybody made a video like this, then new info keeps coming out faster than content creators can put out new videos. heh
1:05 Alex from DF!
I think that they touted all previous versions of FSR so heavily and they all turned out to be promising but ultimately underwhelming. In some cases, AWFUL. So they are being careful this time and don't want to over-promise and under-deliver again.
How serendipitous that this time they have something amazing on their hands
Well FSR4 is like admitting Nvidia was right all along: DLSS 4 Transformer model is available to all RTX GPU and all DLSS2 games, meanwhile FSR4 is locked to RDNA4 and 0 game support atm.
Yeah I agree. I wish they'd done this much sooner but they decided to split their gaming and productivity GPU's. Better late than never but the reality is it will take some time before it gets in the hands of many people and many games.
False information. Fsr4 will be in all games that already have fsr3.1. rdna4 has a algorithm that detects fsr3.1 then applies fsr4 to it. This could mean a driver base toggle system. I believe fsr3.1 is in 40+ games and counting.
Fsr4 is also not "locked" to rdna4 indefinitely. Rdna3 and older do not have the same capabilities as rdna4, which was reworked from the ground up. More time is needed to find a algorithm that works with rdna3 ect.
Nvidia already had the hardware capabilities from the 2000 series so of course it would be a simple transition for them. AMD is pretty much starting from scratch.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks " rdna4 has a algorithm that detects fsr3.1 then applies fsr4 to it" where did you hear this? That it's not going to require integration or developer update like all other previous FSR versions before it?
@@TerraWare I read a article from pcgamers, which was alluding to it.
I didn't say fsr4 won't need developers integration. rDNA4 has a "fsr4 upgrade feature" which is only for the 9070 series. This upgrade feature allows games that already has fsr3.1 support to be upgraded to fsr4.
Developers integration probably will produce a overall better quality either visually, performance or both.
If fsr4 is in Zero games, then what are people looking at in ratchet and clank?...this is the fsr4 "upgrade feature".
Call of duty black ops 6 will be done via developers implementing not through the "upgrade feature" as we see in ratchet and clank. It will produce even better results visually or performance wise or both.
@@RX7800XTBenchmarks I see. Sounds more like speculation to me. I don't see how it could work without a developer update and I've tried to keep up with anything said by AMD people through interviews. That would be something worth advertising but it wouldn't be the first time Radeon drop the ball when it comes to advertising their advantages lol.
Looks great & especially AMD made the right choice in choosing performance mode FSR to show it off
Since that's terrible imo on FSR 2 & 3
Frank Azor confirmed they waited for Nvidias show to be over and will be talking about FSR 4 in the coming weeks btw
I saw that after uploading the video. Reveal is Wednesday I think.
@@TerraWare Hopefully
This interview with AMD's Frank Azor addresses a lot of it. Really appreciate his level of transparency. Basically, FSR 4 requires more processing horsepower. That's why it will be limited to the new generation of cards. According to him, AMD knew there's only so far they can go with software alone for FSR3.x. AMD will be doing a showcase event around their new GPUs soon. th-cam.com/video/2p7UxldYYZM/w-d-xo.html
I saw it after uploading the video. I guess that makes sense although I was looking forward to AMD swinging before Nvidia. It is what it is. As long as the card is good and is priced right it can turn out to be a good product.
Without watching the video yet, they were obviously sandbagging Nvidia, they wanted to see what nvidia would to so they could come out swinging. They will announce it all at once properly, hopefully sometime soon. 9070xt between $479-$499 that's over 20% ahead in raster with more vram and about on par with the 5070 in RT, and a big improvement with Fsr, i think they're coming out swinging and want to do it properly with all the attention on them. Just my thoughts lol ok now time to watch this video 😊
If 9700 XT costs $499, then it will be roughly on par with 5070, maybe 5% faster.
If it is 10-15% faster, then it will cost $549.
FSR 4 and better RT performance will let AMD price their cards a bit higher this time, since it makes them more competitive.
Yeah it appears that way. Saw the PC World interview with Frank Azor. It's pretty much what they said.
@TerraWare yep it's all lining up, I really hope Amd gets a win for once. They're under new leadership so this could only be a good thing. I hope, otherwise its a second hand 4080 super for me lol
@@PCgamingbenchmarktime Yeah I hope so too. They are on the right path although if you care about RT I still think the 4080 Super would probably be ahead, especially with PT but that's just a guess, we'll find out in time.
@TerraWare oh yeah the 4080 will still beat in RT. I was just behind the 4070ti super in Rt on the leaked speedway benchmark, i have no interest in RT though, im happy with it being performance in games that require it. I don't think RT is worth using just yet until they can make more efficient and the hardware is there and the denoising is improved lol mayb by the time the new consoles come out it will be in a better place
The fsr4 is unoptimised that is why rDNA 3 could do ml upscaling at the high end
I'm more interested in the new ray tracing optimization
As a big RT fan yeah me too and how it compares to the 7900XTX as well. Will it handle more complex RT better than previous Radeon GPU's? I hope so.
Come on Man! MCM
That has its own challenges though. We saw it with RX 7900. I dont think we're there yet where MCM makes sense for consumer gaming GPU's although realistically I do feel that will probably be the next step if they can iron out the latency challenges.
Monolithic is a proven method.
5:32 People don't hate software or the tech they hate lying openly about performance and saying 5070=4090.
If they can't make a 48sm card faster, maybe they could make a 60sm card and call that 5070 instead. Of if they don't want to do that, maybe they can just come out and say it's 20% faster and that's ok, but just don't lie!
FG can be usable at some cases and it's a welcomed tech, but the new one is BS and it exist just for marketing. If they wanted to make something useful they would have focused on makin the generated frame faster not adding 2 more frames to it.
Or in other words if :
FG off = 60 rendered frames and FG on = 50 rendered + 50 generated
try to push it to 57 rendered + 57 generated not 40 rendered + 120 generated
This exists just for this ugly marketing!
I guess Microsoft Windows gives more software devs tools vs linux absent in ai tools. Amd gives up on Linux community its sad when nothing is moving forward for game devs
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AMD is doing its homework and is therefore currently silent...
Because those "people" who are upset about DLSS/FSR/(upscaling or fg in general) aren't real.
They are just youtube commentator who complain about everything.
@@張彥暉-v8p There are of course some things worth discussing but yea you are right for the most part. A lot of oversensationalizing, TH-camrs cashing in on the topic.
@TerraWare Discussing the up and downsides of those new tech is great.
But on TH-cam, most of the comments are just blindly supporting or hating on those tech, full of swearing and personal attack, which leads to nowhere lul.
Frame gen left a sour taste in my mouth after buying the 4060. Raw performance is trash compared to my old 1070. Went and bought a new on sale rx6800.
It's pretty good in some games.
The only thing that really matters is that it's FSR 4 Native, and the rest is just garbage.
Whatever matters to you is what matters imo
@@TerraWare Everything that is important to me is important to any PC user.
AMD should have done AI upscaling since the beginning... now it is just trash and the FS4 is just like DLSS, supported only by newer tech cards
I agree. AMD should've introduced ML based upscaling much sooner but with RDNA 2 they decided to split their productivity GPU's and gaming and I felt that was the wrong decision but maybe it was necessary for them I'm not sure. Switching to ML based upscaling was inevitable imo.
what are they going to do? That is not concern of mine. They take money to figure this out. Im not paying for their problems Im paying for product. You cannot play games on fake frames alone no matter how u slice it. For frame generation working properly you need base frames. They are generated and 3 other frames are copypasta of the real one. We should not use same terms for generating frames. normies will buy this in impression of real performance, its not and they are asking money as if it was. Next generation we will just download frames from cloud for 5k dollars. There is bruteforcing way, as they were used for decades, and there is optimization ways as are being implemented. Its easier to let customer to pay for they shortcomings. We had better looking games in motion in 720p era. Engine optimizations are needed, because we have this trash UE5 and others. Lumen was supposed to be the thing and now they introduced megalights. And even after that we will see something new. It will be the same as rasterization optimization, that is where real gains were. If developers want to break 5090 into teens of fps 10-15 they just need to add more rays and samples and not even 4x frame generation will cut it.
Shitty amd
Even xess is better than FSR and Intel just entered the game. Anyone still hoping that AMD finally gets FSR into a usable state is deluding themselves.
FSR is shit and always has been.
you have no clue what you are talking about. FSR's problem is that it's not hardware based compared to the other two upscalers. this will change with FSR 4 and therefore you will have similar results compared to DLSS and XeSS. DF already did a small video about FSR4. seems like they basically fixed all problems DLSS had with 3.5 and therefore FSR4 and DLSS4 should be quite on par...
@@wanshurst2416 We'll see. We've seen one game. I hope it is better, but I won't hold my breath. AMD is legendary at fumbling the bag.
Even if AMD pulled it off i don't think it will change your mind, this video literally showing FSR4 improvement using ML, and the quality is as good as dlss.
Thanks for mentioning that idiotic outcry about Frame gen/upscalers. ESPECIALLY coming from the so called "tech" youtubers. Like I don't understand... it's a new and exciting technology, don't they have their channels focused on that? Don't they understand how process nodes work, as you said? I'm much more excited about new stuff than raw power that hit its limits, there's not much they can squeeze from rasterized graphics. I bet those people are conservative backward people that always fight ANY change.
I'm a realist. Obviously it's popular to say fake frames are bad, they should've given us 50% more power for half the price. Its like saying there shouldnt be world hunger for example but people who say things like this don't offer a realistic solution or an alternative that makes sense.
Without a massive node shrink architectural changes alone can't make up for that big of an increase. Nvidia and AMD would have to increase chip size even more which is is very expensive if you also take into account defect rate increases with larger die size. It would consume more power whicn is more components, beefier cooler + more. GPUs do a lot of other things than just gaming now. It makes sense to use that additional utility in features as technology advances. This has always been the case with gaming, different ways of doing things, tricks to make games look more realistic etc.
I personally don't much care for MFG but I'm not bothered in the slightest that it exists. Its fine. Besides regular FG was improved so was DLSS model, RR, DLAA and so much more but MFG does have its place in the arsenal of features for some.
I hear people use AFMF on top of FG. MFG would be a good tool for those people especially with higher refresh rate displays.
Negativity and complaining for the sake of it sells unfortunately so you will see a lot of content like that. Its easy to make, you can repeat the same thing over and over. Not in my book. I only make videos about things I'm interested in and passionate about. If I get less views than so be it.
After CES 2025 I have Zero respect to Nvidia, its just hard to believe how much they mislead, try to fool everyone.
They think we are stupid.
Hopefully new FSR will be close enough to Dlss.
They all do it. These are businesses. The best thing to do is learn the marketing languages, and wait for actual releases. I'm still on the fence as to wether or not PC gaming is getting better or not. Never thought I would ever see benchmarking of GPU raw performance will include Upscaling at performance mode with multi frame generation.
Zero respect for Nvidia but hope FSR is as good as DLSS?
So who pushed AMD to give you this better version of FSR?
And more so why are they doing it?
Why aren't AMD just creating this monster pure raster beast of a machine?
Why are they copying Nvidia with upscalers and framegen that you have no respect for Nvidia for creating, but you have respect for the company that copies it?
It won't. AMD has had nearly a decade to get FSR up to snuff but even Intel popped in out of nowhere with xess and blew fsr out of the water.
FSR sucks and at this point I have no faith in AMD to get it to a useable state.
Also, AMD does the same bullshit on their spec sheets as nvidia did.
@@COMMANDandConquer199 the only difference is all the other solutions were using machine learning. Now all solutions are on a level playing field using machine learning. Now a more balance comparison can be done. But the end goal is everyone can have a good enough solution if needs be. It seems like this will be the case.
I mean that's marketing for you. Good marketing is showcasing what you have in the best way possible and when it comes to marketing Nvidia are some of the best at it lol. The one thing I saw people take issue with was "5070 is as fast as a 4090 only with the power of AI" so it's not technically a lie but its also not the whole truth. I do feel that misled some people for sure at first glance. I didn't like the way that was phrased personally.
On the other hand the improvements to DLSS and the many other gaming focused features Nvidia showed was actually really exciting. I don't care to respect any corporation, they only want my money and that's fine. I care about the product and what it can do for me.