Regional South Australia to use Gauge Changing Trains to arrive Adelaide Terminal Station Sep 2020
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ม.ค. 2025
- Having trains change their gauge is a viable way for trains to move around quickly between the 3 railway gauges we have in Australia.
Regional towns and cities in South Australia are now on Standard Gauge Tracks but Greater Adelaide is using Broad Gauge Trains.
Passengers to and from Regional Centers expect their trains to bring them into the centre of the destinations. Not to be deposited in the wildness with no interface with public transport.
Filming at Parafield occurred on 21-Jan-2020
• Talgo Moscow-Berlin
• Variable gauge system ...
• Talgo 250 gage change ...
Hi Neil, I may have raised this before. Given the standard gauge tracks run past the entry to Adelaide station in both the north & south directions it should be a simple matter (Grades permitting) of 3 bridges to raise the stnd gauge tracks on the west side of the broad gauge and bring in say 2 tracks into Adelaide 'Central' on the north side to a platform reserved for stnd gauge trains. This overcomes the need for Gauge changing trains at Adelaide.
Adelaide Terminal Station is at capacity now. The last thing it needs is more complexity.
Which is needed is the cross CBD rail tunnel that the Liberals promised before the last election. They won the election and then forgot to implement what they promised. They might be like the Tonkin Government who did similar things. - One term.
You could have dual gauge - the Armadale Line in Perth Station to Armadale Station is dual gauge (narrow and standard gauges) but the standard gauge trains do not stop at the suburban stations.
There are 2 gauges in involved with trains
* Rail Gauge the distance between the wheels
* Train Gauge. The width and length of the carriages. (height of the carriages is another issue if you have tunnels)
The gap between the platform and the passenger train is the main worry.
In New York City they have inherited 2 different systems that have the same rail gauge but different train gauges. 123 trains have short, narrow carriages whilst ABC trains have wide, long carriages
There are few stations in NYC where trains of both systems use the same platform. To make is safe for passengers the edge of the platforms move in and out depending on which train is at the platform.
The other consideration is where can we get standard gauge passenger trains.
NSW has the same problem as NYC. NSW Country Passenger trains are short and narrow whilst NSW Sydney Passenger trains are wide and long.
The other issue is the electricity for the trains.
* Sydney Suburban Electric (Standard Gauge - 1,500 V DC)
* Adelaide electric trains (Broad gauge , 25,000 V AC)
@@Highbury5089 If Adelaide station is at capacity then build the CBD underground first. That would relieve capacity freeing up 2 platforms for stand gauge. I take your point about train gauge. Can be difficult thus on some major urban stations it would be necessary to build additional platforms for stnd gauge trains. Given the standard gauge trains would be hydrogen or Diesel for regional routes electrification should not be a problem. In about 2 years there will be the NSW Endeavor & Explorer class trains coming free from there long & short haul routes. Start with those!
@@dhuphill Yes, I agree Having grade-separate rail stations / interchanges for steel wheel and rubber wheel public transport is the only way any metropoiis can function properly.
For example A Busway to West Lakes Stadium was promised by state authorities about the same time as the Busway to The Gabba in built in Brisbane.
@@Highbury5089 Capacity is the issue.
Very hard to have low capacity then upgrade later. Freeway lane is 2,500/Hr. Sydney's current fleet of double decker sets are good for about 24,000 /hour where as the Metro plans to carry 40,000 /hour. Newcastle Light Rail 1,200/Hr. Sydney Light Rail up to 9,000/Hr The O-Bahn being single units on a dedicated track has a potential capacity of 18,000 /Hr although its current ridership is around 31,000/day I understand? So I guess a busway is one solution if other options remain open at a later date to meet surging demand at the end of any major event at West Lakes Stadium. I've travelled in Padua Italy on rubber tyre trams running on a single guide rail . The wear & tear on the tyres was massive. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Padua So my preference would be for steel wheel which limits mode to light rail & Metro... Your thoughts?
@@dhuphill If a city is to grow it will upgrade by replacing the old technology with new technology. Capacity is determined by where people want / are required to get off the transport.
Adelaide Metro Electric Trams and Trolley Buses (MTT) ran at Profit from 1910 to 1947. By 1945 the MTT was collecting fares for 95 million trips annually - 295 trips per head of population.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Adelaide
Along came private car ownership and the trams were replaced with rubber tyre petrol buses.
One limb of the Brisbane busway system snakes around from Tertiary Education to Public Tertiary Hospital to Sports Stadium to Large Private Hospital - Public Children's Hospital to Cultural Centre to CBD to Large Tertiary Hospital. They are making the buses longer to handle the numbe of passengers.
Trains from Adelaide to Melbourne also have problems with a mixture of Broad and Standard Gauge tracks. Finding a route is a mixture of
* who "owns / manages" the tracks
* number of passing loops on the single track lines
* the number of "slots" available for an express passenger train
"The Overland" now has standard gauge (bogies / trucks). The line Serviceton (at SA / Vic Boarder via Gheringhap
m, North Geelong, Melbourne to Albury (Vic / NSW Boarder) is owned by the Victorian Governement, but it managed by the ARTC.
The ARTC is a quango. ARTC is a private company owned by the Australian Government via the single share in the company
"quasi non-governmental organisation. It is typically an organisation to which a government has devolved power, but which is still partly controlled and/or financed by government bodies"
ARTC was originally the Australian National Railway Commission (1975 to 1998)
* South Australian Railways (SAR) which the Dunstan S.A. Government "sold" to the Whitlam Australian Government t
* Commonwealth Railway which operated the line from Port Augusta (Port Pirie) to Kalgoorlie
* Tasmanian Government Railways
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_National_Railways_Commission
The ARTC leases the lines from Serviceton to Albury from the Victorian Government and has built and operated a Standard Gauge system for Freight and Passenger Trains operated by other entities.
The rolling stock were devolved from the track management division into an entity named Australian National .
"The Overland Train" is currently owned by "Great Southern Rail"
Journey Beyond Rail Expeditions (JBRE), doing business as Journey Beyond, is an Australian interstate luxury train operator. Founded on 1 November 1997 as Great Southern Rail (GSR), it is currently owned by Quadrant Private Equity which acquired the business in 2016.
North Geelong - Gheringhap
line capacity.
==================================
"There is only a single track for broad
gauge trains between North Geelong and Gheringhap, which is shared with standard gauge trains. Line speed for broad gauge services in this section is limited to 80km/h due to operational
restrictions associated with the dual gauge track. "
"Rail Revival: Geelong-Ballarat-Bendigo Project Feasibility Summary Report" April 2013.
If "The Overland Train" had gauge changing bogies it could take a more direct route Ararat - Ballarat - Melbourne which has dual Broad Gauge Tracks. This would enable speeds of 160 km/h passenger services.
"The V/Line VLocity and Diesel Tilt Train, operate at a high of 160 km/h in passenger service."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Australia
New South Wales runs regional trains from Sydney to Brisbane & Sydney to Melbourne. I've been on the Sydney to Brisbane train & there is Standard Gauge all the way from the NSW-Qld border to Roma Street Station, so the Countrylink XPT can travel. Same with Sydney to Melbourne, most of regional Victoria is converting to Standard, but I can catch a train from Sydney to Melbourne's Southern Cross due to the dual gauge track Victoria has installed. South Australia just needs to install more dual-gauge track, build the infrastructure & build more trains for the regions. Putting dual-gauge track to Adelaide Station is an easy fix, gauge-changing trains are expensive & have issues with drive systems.
@@mrbillhilly343 Nairne Junction (alongside the New RAH) is already a complex structure. Gauge changing trains would allow trains to move between Broad and Standard.
The Japanese have the a similar problem to Australia
Most of their train tracks are narrow gauge. Their fast new passenger trains mostly run on elevated standard gauge tracks above the narrow gauge train tracks.
There is a short section of dual gauge track in Japan.
It is cheap enough in South Australia to just flat out convert every inch of rail to standard gauge
Sadly we do not charge enough for our train trips to generate enough money to change over from broad gauge to standard gauge.
"Gauge changing trains" could be used on the Hills Line to go through the single track tunnels to Mt Barker, Monarto and Murray Bridge. The Liberal Party went to the last election promising a 24 hour airport at Monarto.
@@Highbury5089 We do have dual gauge sleepers
@@RNA0ROGER Yes that part was done around 2008 when re-railing was being done as part of the effort to increase the "top speed" for our suburban trains.
There are many important things that need to be done.
Sadly we have not the money to build duplicate tunnels in the Adelaide Hills.
The duplication of the South LIne only reached up to Belair in 1928.
The original Sleep Hill tunnel was replaced in 1919.
Commuter travel using the SE Freeway is at capacity.
As you know, we are back to a single track of suburban trains and a single track of Regional and Interstate trains. Then only single track until it gets near to Geelong where there is a section of dual gauge track.
@@Highbury5089 Might be worth trying to talking the feds into ponying up as a stimulus program.
@@RNA0ROGER We in S.A. had the Minister for Cities, Hon Jamie Briggs MP, the former member for MAYO arguing in Parliament against "passing loops" being built on the Bridgewater to Murray Bridge single track standard gauge.
parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansardr%2F2010-05-31%2F0094%22
Mr BRIGGS (9:30 PM) -I rise this evening to put on the record a major issue of concern to many residents in the Adelaide Hills, in my electorate. The Australian Rail Track Corporation is planning to construct a 2.1 kilometre crossing loop at Ambleside in the Adelaide Hills just near Verdun to increase the productive capacity of the Adelaide to Melbourne rail freight line. As part of the Rudd Government’s nation building stimulus package, the Australian Rail Track Corporation was allocated $76 million in funds to upgrade seven existing crossing loops on the Adelaide to Melbourne rail freight corridor."
The money had been allocated by a previous government. Go figure
Nice video! Quick question if any one knowns, why are there so many 2 car sets of the 3000 class? Seems like I only see 2 car sets these days.
This video of the 3000 class and the freight train was shot in Jan. On a week day at the start of the Pandemic and during the school holidays. You can see there were some passengers emerging that day.
Do these 3000 have a trailer car?
@@Highbury5089 Here's some information from a 3000 class railcar fan:
By default, 3000 class railcars are arranged in 2-car sets. All trains on the Outer Harbour line and Belair line trains are made up of 2 cars at all times. 1 car trains no longer operate, most likely so that a failed unit won't block the mainline. Before closing for electrification, the Gawler line usually ran with 2 car trains off-peak and 3-car trains during the peak hour, in the rare instances when a 3000 class serves the Seaford line during rush-hour, you can see a 4 car set, which is the longest train you're able to ride on Adelaide Metro. It should be noted that for the afternoon rush hour, 6 car sets of 3000 class can be seen entering Adelaide station at the start of the afternoon peak-hour, however, these are not normally passenger services, and are usually empty stock movements.
The only time you'll be able to ride a six-car train is for Footy Express or Showground Special services (in the rare event they are run by 3000 classes).
It should be noted that I've seen four-car trains operating in passenger service on both the Outer Harbour and Gawler lines in the past, but these are extremely rare.
In rare circumstances (which will no longer exist once Gawler electrification is finished) you may see a 5-car train, out of service, when Adelaide Metro tows a 4000 class to Dry Creek behind two 3000-class railcars for heavy maintenance work.
Also, 3000 (and 3100 class) are ALL self-powered railcars, although in the event of an engine failure in the leading carriage they can act as a driving trailer.
I hope this answers your question!
@@BaileyChap Thanks. Lots of useful information.
Apparently the new generation electric trains for the Gawler Line will have doors systems that allow car sets to overhang the short platforms and only the front few doors will open at short platform stations. At other stations , with long platforms, all the doors will open.
The first of these new trains went to Dry Creek about 6 weeks ago, brought there on the back of a semi-trailer from Dandenong (Apparently the current government did not order enough new electric trains to actually fully use the electric system next month.)
One of the problems is Adelaide spends more time discussing Trains and not enough discussing Train Stations and the business that could grow around the railway stations.
In Japan, the railways are mostly "private". These railway companies often build department stores and other attractions at the ends of their railway lines. "Killing 2 birds with one stone." This generates "off-peak traffic on their railway lines and customers to their other business.
@@BaileyChap didn't the occasional 4 car train run on gawler line during peak and sometimes a 6 car long unit for footy express service.
@@Adelaide_Transit You are completely right! I forgot about those!
my fathers neice lives at parafeild gardens
There is a railway station in that suburb, I have visited that Railway Station. As I remember it had a ramp so that pedestrians did not have to worry about the ARTC freight trains and the Down Gawler Line Trains.
Just convert the broad gauge to standard gauge and be done with it..
The probably a bit more complicated. The train gauge is a different measure to rail gauge.
The carriages of the current cars / carriage might rub up against the platforms or alternatively they might have an unsafe gap.
The opportunity cost of doing the change over might be too large compared to the small benefit.
Commuter trains should NOT be run on the same tracks as freight trains or inter regional passenger trains. This is the current setup.
@@Highbury5089 There is no difference in the loading gauge (what you call “train gauge”,as opposed to track gauge), between broad and standard gauge. A significant amount of broad gauge has already been converted to standard gauge. We need to get on with it and convert the rest. However between standard and the three foot six inch gauge there is a difference, but of course that can be overcome if one has the willingness to actually do it.
What is the cost of not standardizing? The break of gauge problem has cost billions in time and money.
As for passenger trains and freight trains sharing the same tracks, well that is a whole different subject and not relevant to gauge.
@@smedleyfarnsworth263Thanks for the information. The change over would involve a once only expenditure that would involve the whole network.
A more important things to do would be to remove the hundreds of level crossings on the lines in Greater Adelaide.
So many of our stations are adjacent to a main road. The tragic classic is the Salisbury Station and Park Tce.
I think there are around 30 level crossings on the Gawler Line. Any attempt to increase the frequency of services will be instantly met with protests from motorists and bus services.
The other need is to lengthen the train sets beyond 3 car sets.
This will mean increasing the length of the platforms.
@@Highbury5089 Again, that is a whole different subject that is not relevant to track gauge.
@@smedleyfarnsworth263 You are correct I was doing a Trump.
We both know that ARTC is really the SAR regional tracks given by the Dunstan Government to Whitlam Government when they were trying to unify the railways
They also transferred the regional train-sets to the Commonwealth Railways.
The real reason the SA politicians of all flavours in 2025 will say NO to changing the gauges of Urban passenger trains is:-
IF the Adelaide Metro Trains were running on the same gauge as the ARTC owned tracks.
THEN citizens would want the trains to run to the peri-urban areas.
Fast regional trains with toilets to Mt Barker, Monarto, Murray Bridge and beyond on the Narine Line
Fast Regional Trains with toilets to Direk Buckland Park, Two Wells, Port Pirie and beyond on the North Line.
Even re-opening the line to the Copper Coast - the 2nd most popular place for retirees in S.A.
These main line ARTC are maintained for safe and fast travel.
The down side is "passing loops" would be needed at the regional stations to allow for the transit of express trains.
You probably have seen my videos on this topic.
They same passing loops should be done with stations in Urban Adelaide.
We have the fiction that there are Express Trains on the Seaford and Gawler Lines.
These limited stop trains just travel more slowly compared toe the "local trains"
NO trains can overtake on either line.
South Australia needs to stop being so Adelaide-centric & start using the rail lines. The Eyre Peninsula Railway can be used for passenger rail, they can build Diesel-hydraulic passenger locomotives on 3f-6i gauge & run them on the lines for a new regional South Australian city. Water desalination & a new coal fired generator or Thorium reactor for power & encourage businesses to move there. Connect the line from Port Lincoln to Whyalla by installing a dual-gauge standard rail to connect Port Lincoln with the nation is something that needs to happen. Regional rail services from Adelaide to Murray Bridge or even Victor Harbor with a dual gauge for their broad gauge track. Also, daily Adelaide to Alice Springs passenger services via Port Augusta. This will make South Australia more livable.
Sadly things have moved on since .
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_stations_on_the_Eyre_Peninsula
"From 1908 until the early 1960s, the lines of the SAR's Port Lincoln Division, 832 km (517 mi) long at their maximum extent, were the lifeline for much of Eyre Peninsula because roads were non-existent at the dawn of the century and substandard even at the end of that period. "
"The railway network on Eyre Peninsula before 1930 was built with a single purpose in mind: the movement of grain to the coast. "
@@Highbury5089 All it takes is for people to speak-up & lobby or hounding talkback radio & local radio about it. The Eyre Railway can be used for passenger & grain, every station has a passing loop. South Australia's public transport is garbage & outside of Adelaide it's a pointless existence. South Australians need to stop watching football & get stuck-into their politicians. Tell their State Members to stop expecting the "free market" to do everything for them. But, when you've had the same political flavoured swamp stink out Government, you get the garbage you have. In New South Wales, the regions here stopped voting for the National Party & we now have 3 Shooters Fishers Farmers MLA's in the Lower House representing half of the landmass of New South Wales. Because of plenty of campaigning by the SFF Party MLA, Griffith got its passenger train service back.
@@mrbillhilly343 Dear Bill. The election in South Australia is not very far off. Which seat would suit you?
You just need to knock on 20,000 doors and speak to the electors.
@@Highbury5089 I'd like to get the line to Murray Bridge running regular commuter trains, re-opening the Ambleside Station so tourists & daytrippers can go to Hahndorf for a few pints & a schnitzel. But I have a feeling the Yuppies there never swing their votes away from the major parties. I'm in the NSW Hunter, we're trying to get new coal fired power stations built. We have One Nation up here talking about building new power stations for us. The Shooters Fishers Farmers Party are trying to help the maritime industries, dairy farms & helping firearms owners up here who are sick of being treated like criminals in waiting by Macquarie Street when they want to shoot a goat eating their vines. AustraliaOne is probably looking at a seat nearby, but not sure which one.
@@mrbillhilly343 Inland Rail is finally being built. No money for passenger infrastructure at stations
Yeah, that's Europe, it would be cheaper to re-gauge the rails and train permanently than do what they are doing in Europe.
S.A. recently lost the narrow gauge railway on Eyre Peninsula. That leaves us with the Metro Irish Gauge in the Adelaide Metro passenger trains. The standard guage freight trains in the Barossa Valley cannot get a ticket from G& W who were granted a lease.
All it will take is a few billion dollars.
A compete new set of electric passenger trains that do exactly the same as the current electric trains would not go down well with the electors at the State Elections following such a decision.
Level Crossing removal people and motor vehicles are a more important problem
A phased changeover is the best option
When the Outer Harbour Line - Grange Line are being electrified they could
* get rid of all the level crossing,
* have change it over to Standard Gauge
* have it driverless.
This could be join in with a new Standard Gauge Railway to Mt Barker Junction with the same features
The BART in San Franciso has all the above features.
Do it once and do it properly
The first segment of the BART system to open would be 28 miles between Fremont and MacArthur stations. -1972, Monday, September 11, was the first day of revenue service.
50 years and 80% Fare Box Recovery.