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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- “I would rather excel in knowledge of the highest secrets of philosophy than in arms.”
-Alexander the Great
Music used:
Darth Revan (Jedi Version) by Lucas King
• Darth Revan Jedi Versi...
Darth Revan (Epic Theme) by Samuel Kim
• Star Wars: Darth Revan...
Anakin's Betrayal by John Williams
• Anakin's Betrayal
Padmé's Ruminations by John Williams
• Padmé's Ruminations
The Tusken Camp and the Homestead by John Williams
• The Tusken Camp and th...
Since this video is getting so much attention, here’s my controversial opinion:
Revan (the novel) is one of my favorites. I really loved the bitter-sweet conclusion to his story. He’s like a larger than life hero from Greek mythology, so it made sense to me that he had a tragic end. The bigger they are, the harder the fall, right? Even still, his failure still ended in a small victory; delaying the invasion by hundreds of years. He saved the galaxy one last time and no one will ever know. Tragically beautiful, if you ask me.
I also liked his character arc of trying to live up to his own reputation, until he became the embodiment of the light AND dark sides of the Force. He became the “balance”. It made him badass, but somehow vulnerable as well.
“I am Revan reborn! And before me, you are nothing.”
That said, I really didn’t like Meetra Surik’s ending. Seemed anticlimactic and lame. Maybe I’m biased, because Meetra’s my favorite EU character.
Edit: Also, I wasn’t a fan of Revan in The Old Republic MMO. I feel like the novel should have been the end of his story.
I'm someone who started the KOTOR games with KOTOR 2.
The Revan book does a disservice to both of the games.
Like, it's prose is good. It focus' on Scourge too much, it treats the Exile like some basic bitch Jedi when she definitely isn't.
I wasn't a fan for both the novel and swtor.
I loved both the novel, and SWTOR DLC, I think it was a nice tie-in and a more fitting end to his story, to show the aftermath and how while he might have escaped the Emperors control, being wrenched from it left him only half of his true self, and in the end, you the player fix that.
This covers my own thoughts exactly. Awesome comment!
Revans story is good, except for the bit where in the revan is forced to the dark side by the sith emperor. I much prefer that Revan say that the jedi and republic would be insufficient to defeat the sith empire, and so willingly fell to ultimately make the galaxy ready to FIGHT the sith, not to make it ready for the sith. In either KOTOR 1 or 2 it is stated that while Malak was brutal, devastating planets, Revan instead turned to sabotage, disabling things (factories and planetary shield generators, etc.) so that they could be quickly rebuilt. This speaks to me of one readying for an even bigger fight, with or without the star forge
the idea that revan never fell, but knowingly sacrificed himself to the dark side to save the galaxy from a greater horror........makes him so perfect
ikr! that was such an epiphany for me the first time i heard it
Daggett: You're pure evil.
Bane: I'm necessary evil...
And there was the question if Revan truely fell to the Darkside
I get it tho. It’s yin and Yang. Ya know? It’s the balance we live every day
I agree and that is my head canon for Revan, that he became the dark lord out of necessity to unite and strengthen the galaxy to fight the true Sith. As Kreia said he waged war to save others
Revan: the person that paradoxically was one of the best sith and Jedi
Shame SWTOR kinda screwed the character up
There is a fan made Revan film where Revan tells a Jedi: "The Force existed long before the Jedi and Sith divided into Light and Dark. It will exist long after both have crumbled into dust." that quote has always stuck with me, as you can tell from my Yin-Yang symbol. Revan was once a Jedi and once a Sith. Now he is neither and yet so much more. Like Kreia says, did Revan fall or did he sacrifice himself?
@@Coleorton7 Not really, now with echoes of oblivion the story is compete, Revan fulfilled his destiny.
@@attilafekete7892 Still SWtor Screwed a lot of Revan Story arc by Taking the Exile out of the way and with her a lot what Kotor 2 had build up for Revan's Character and Even if the Exile appers in Swtor and Echos of Oblivion they don't do Justice to her character... She was as important as Revan was
@@blackfangex6813 Blame that on the Revan novel not on swtor, that's when they made her a side kick and killed her. Now there wasn't so much she could have done. I think they made her right in Echoes of oblivion. Not in Shadow of Revan tough. Than She should have had a major role, but she haven't appeared at all. But overall it was the Revan novel when they throw out Kotor 2, like they acknowledge that those things happened, but otherwise it was totally ignored. Like when they explained well what happened to the Kotor 1 characters after kotor, but as for the Kotor 2 companions they weren't even mentioned exept Kreia. It was a big mistake.
Kreia, the greatest character ever written in Star Wars.
She really is. lol.
Really close at least. To me, it's probably Bane.
Wonder what would’ve happened if she had made a Holocron.....and a certain Chosen One had found it thousands of years later.....
@Jerry, The Nitwit Villager Hell yea, dude. It's probably the best Star Wars game ever made. Playing Kotor 1 before might be a good idea as well, especially since Obsidian is also mocking Bioware writting in Kotor 2.
Yes.....
Canon sucks compared to this
I agree my Dark Lord, but don’t be hopeless, there are rumors of making KOTOR Canon. We should explore these rumors to see if they are true.
@@puggoman902 They made Revan canon, but that doesnt mean it will be like this... I hope I am wrong
@@AA-jp9cj Yes, Revan is cannon, but his history is not. I hope our Dark Lord’s story is better than his original ever was.
@@puggoman902 tbh im fine if they just use the KOTOR one :)
@@AA-jp9cj I agree, there is no real reason to erase what has already been written. I would be pleased if the original KOTOR was made cannon, because there isn’t really an issue with KOTOR. KOTOR was already a masterpiece, but the Dark Council decided to scrap this, making our Dark Lord Revan a mystery. Making his story unknown. Making his story, a false reality. Our Lord, will now, and forever, be unknown. Until his new story is written, he will be nothing, but a shadow from the past.
“The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference more than anybody knew.” Phenomenal words. What I wouldn’t give to write like this.
"As a master knows their apprentice". Ah, the sneaky message in that ending.
Reminder that SWTOR and the Revan novel are incompatible with KOTOR 2 in various ways, meaning they are different sub-canons in the EU and we can just ignore SWTOR's Revan if we want in favor of the original version depicted in KOTOR 2.
No
Basically Kreia's philosophy is "developement through conflict". Well, it's Nietzschean philosophy (what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger). Thus Kreia is kind of Nietzsche alter-ego in the KOTOR. That's why Revan was never "turned to the dark side", according to Kreia. He just had played role of a "necessary evil" to prepare the Republic for the imminent invasion of true siths. Through the conflict (acting as a bad guy) he wanted to "shape" Republic to be strong, as he himself was "shaped" trough the conflict (war) with Mandalorians. And Malak just made Revan's task easier when turned into the real threat to the Republic by betraying Revan. So it wasn't necessary to Revan to continue acting as a bad guy and he has "switched" to the "light side" (not really).
Long live Kreia a character who can move a plot just as good as Morpheus. "Welcome to the desert of the real" Morpheus.
I actually wish more people would take Revans lesson into their lives. It's really important to remember to always choose by yourself. Not going blindly into some idealogies or politics, but making your own decisions after listening to every side. Take what's best from each side of conflict and think about it instead of reapeting what others says
Fun fact. Revan likely comes from the word Revanchist, a real life word describing a person that advocates for the conquest of lost territory.
It is a very interesting concept to think about, to take the words of Kreai to assemble them together
The two Kotor are part of those video games that not only rocked my childhood and my adolescence but also show me how complex the Star Wars universe was, subtle, could be a mirror to our world etc
Before Disney ruined the very essence of the Star Wars Universe
Thank you for this
I only became a Star Wars fan cause of KOTOR and KOTOR II. It wasn't the movies that pulled me in was the games. Disney was stupid for not making Old Republic canon but made it "Legend" (non-canon). Still canon to me damn it and I noticed they slowly back tracking back into Old Republic.
This is how i choose to remember Revan, the willing sacrifice. The the ill begotten fantasy of the Old republic MMO.
Revan book was good
The MMO made Revan dogshit. To me Revan's story never went beyond KOTOR 2. The mystery made it better.
Oh my god that was actually so damn cool i loved it
the way she described him at the end was beautiful, the idea that Revan was always changing who he needed to be for the betterment of others is such a good thought, especially compared to brain washing and amnesia that the jedi tell the story of. incredible video seriously it does Kreia's story justice. :)
Friend of Mine: Kylo Ren is more powerful than Darth Vader.
Me: Have you ever heard of the Legend of Darth Revan?
Friend of Mine: No.
Me: I thought not, it's an old story that "cannon" won't tell you.
This is a story that real Star Wars fans shall never forget and will always see as cannon. My boy Revan deserves recognition for all generations to come.
Time to introduce your friend to Knights of the Old Republic
I thought not. Not a story Disney would tell you. It's a non-inclusive, sexist white male legend.
These kreia audio logs are awesome.
Brilliant video. Fantastic use of music to tell Revan's story. This deserves more views.
This was an incredible telling of Revan's story
Now THIS is writing
Its like im listening to an audio book i actually listen to this alot
Revan is so powerful man
My Empire was necessary for the betterment of the galaxy the Republic could not stop me
I am very proud to be your descendant my Lord
@@Dark_Lord_of_Mustafar Do what must be done
@@The-Shadow5599 As you wish. Ah and tell 20x great Grandma Bastila i say hi
@@Dark_Lord_of_Mustafar I will
@@The-Shadow5599 My great and powerful Ancestor i have horrible News Kathleen Kennedy is making a Serie about you she will probably ruin you and Grandma Bastila as she did it with my son
Savior, Conquer, hero, villain. You are all things Revan and yet you are nothing. You belong to nether the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone.
And yet….. look at us. We stand with Revan.
My son like the flute theme of Revan, it's nice and relaxing
when a TH-cam video says more and has more real meaning than sequels and prequels worth billions
The best line in all of Star Wars
6:22
Thank you!
here a year later
happy birthday random youtube video
I wish that the Revan novel didn't exist and that we will never know who Revan truly was and what really drove him forward
Revan is like the Rhegar Tagaerian of Star Wars, the more you know about him, the less of a myth he becomes and thus the less interesting he becomes
I kinda wish Revans theme was used a bit more in this.
People often wonder why revan is so popular, krei kind of summons everything up. if you also think about it he was the vader/anakin/luke of his era. I didnt much like how he was in swtor but did show what revan was capable and even the emperor feared him.
It takes just one man to mount & reshape the galaxy 3 times over, history remembers such people & they rarely are ever forgotten, Vader's bloodline rules the galaxy, who knows when yet another legend of the past steps out of the shadows of history once more to join the fray & make the battlefield his domain!
One man, neither Jedi & Sith yet both at the same time, not the strongest nor the fastest yet, but the most connected to the Force & the most charismatic of any other, one man, the humble & wise, both tenacious & ferocious yet far cunning than any before him.
Wouldn’t surprise me if revan turned out to be an ancestor to shmi skywalker
That was the popular theory before Lucas sold Star Wars to Disney and Disney shit canned the Old republic...I so would have loved to have seen this theory explored further in novels, comics, or video games...
Theory was that this is why Plagueus and Sidious chose Shmi to create Anakin within..because she was a direct descendant of Revan...
@@ConansHair1972 he never chose Shmi, the Force did. Plaguies tried to use the Force to impregnate one of his slaves. The Force directly intervened for the first time ever and sabotaged the ritual, punishing Plaguies and redirecting the ritual to impregnate someone outside Plaguies's sphere of influence, setting up a domino effect that would lead to the Sith's ultimate demise. the Chosen One.
@@corruptangel6793 this is why kreia was correct imo. How many trillions of lives lost, just so force can find the balance between bloated and arrogant Jedi order and few but powerful sith sorcerers?
@@TheNord06 I don't want to get into it because Kreia was a hypocritical loon full of half-truths and misunderstandings.
But what I will say is that "Balance" in Star Wars is not the equilibrium kind, it's not Yin/Yang in the sense that both sides are necessary and only extremes are bad. It's the harmonic balance found in nature.
The Sith are tumors spreading a cancer that will kill the body if not removed, an invasive species that will destroy the ecosystem if not exterminated. That is why they must be destroyed if balance is to exist. The entire point of the Chosen One was that he's supposed to end the Sith once and for all. Unfortunately neither Canon nor Legends were willing/able to embrace that, leaving everyone wondering wtf even was the point of the Chosen One. The only way to appreciate the Chosen One is if you read/Watch Star Wars up to ROTJ then stop. Or the Thrawn trilogy in Legends
If only we would only try to understand ourselves as much as shown here, what a species we would be. Subscribed.
I truly appreciate this video. I'm still playing this game with vigor. Best ever imo
I love this
4:35 - 4:45 This is how you set the stage for new characters. You can put WHATEVER you want here and no one will bat an eye at it. You can put a sentient rock force user and no one will complain.
If there is ever a Old Republic tv show, Kreia should be the narrator.
i know swtor is controversial and i do agree with basically all the points, but something i think it did well was show what happens when one truly embraces both sides of the force
swtors revan was a revan of both light and dark, not like Mace windu, but more in line with he was equal part dark and light, he said himself " i was sith, i AM jedi" he embraced both sides of the force and used that to protect the galaxy
the difference between him and Malak was, Revan didn't let the corruption sink in, he wielded the darkside without being corrupted, the Jedi teach tht the darkside only corrupts, but that's only partly true, it only corrupts if you allow it
Revan didn't allow it, Revan kept his word that he would stop at nothing to protect the galaxy, its why i believe he stopped using the star forge, that things very nature was evil and he did not wish for it to corrupt him like it did Malak
also adding to this, this shit needs to be canon, Revan, Kreia, Meetra
their stories deserve to be true, for they were the ones who understood the force better then any jedi or sith
There are times I'll walk in the park at night listening to this and agreeing yet wondering what that means
Kreia is one of the greatest teachers in history. This is why my unborn daughter will carry her name.
Darth Revan is a Legendary Sith Lord and a Historical War hero in the Sith history.
Very good. Love the voice of Kreia. She sounds very much like the actress from KOTR 2
I remember making one of the most terrifying mistakes ever in kotor. I hadn't found Bastilla and I had decided to make a pair of lightsabers assuming combat would be easier if I had them. I couldn't use them yet so I gave them to my companion for safe keeping. Immediately he whipped them out and charged off to fight the closest Sith solider which initiated combat. He killed all of the ones who chose to fight in one hit and rushed off to fight some more. When I finally caught up to him I realized he wasn't taking any damage from them and the lightsabers weren't visible in his inventory anymore nor could I control him. In the end I was forced to reload my game to before I gave him the lightsabers so I could keep playing. I gave him lightsabers and he became an unstoppable killing machine like a none Force sensitive Darth Nihilus
WHAT AMAZING VOICE
I know right, play Kotor 2 if you haven't already
Wowow respect to the maker of this
Kreia is the greatest xharcter in ALL of Star Wars
Why I’m gods name Have we not gotten a full movie hell a trilogy on Reven ???
At this point it's better they don't do that
Nobody would watch it. A majority of people would rather see familiar things
One could say he probably did what Jacen Solo did to prevent the fall of the New Republic to Darth Krayt.
lord off sith will raise again
I really hope the announced remake does this justice.
the remake is not a game. It is just a series of short vids
@@AA-jp9cj Actually there is a fan show And an official remake happening.
@@trekker683 Oh I only knew about the show. I hope the remake ends up good then!
@@trekker683 Remake of what? Kotor 1 and 2?
@@MrDude826 yes
Sara Kestelman is the voice actor of Kreia ... if they ever remake Kotor 1 or 2 i hope they get Sara to voice again ... even better if a movie series is made i hope they use Sara Kestelman as Kreia
We are finally getting a KOTOR remake, but here’s to hoping that KOTOR2 doesn’t: because it’s shit.
Thanks to Rise of Skywalker, Revan is now canon. A Final Order squadron is named after him.
So the dark side never clouded his mind ever
This is so rad, why did they have to cut all of this out for the movie continuity?
Whatever happened to the Jedi that disappeared and 'were never seen again'?
They went into hiding because they were being hunted by the “Sith Triumvirate”. That’s where the plot of Knights of the Old Republic II begins.
Just Like $GME, the other stuff that is canon iswhat the fans say IS canon. HOLD my friends!
TOR IS CANON
TOR's not cannon. KotOR is.
TOR is an abomination to KOTOR...
@@Connor8609 nope
Incredible video, good job. So, anyone who watches this, would you not like, share or comment? Apathy is death.
😏 I am Revan and i approve this message.
what i'm thinking
KOTOR: wish the light side revan armor had cape and wishing that there's a game mechanic to turn juhani and jolee to dark side
KOTOR 2: believing revan is going to save the galaxy with meetra surik as his cavalry
SWTOR: WTF! they killed revan's character, basically becoming vitiate's bitch, loss T-3 and meetra surik, becoming insane, never get back to his wife and child (not even get to see bastila's force ghost to save her husband instead we have meetra's force ghost), didn't get to kill vitiate, and worse of all the half light side ghost revan and half dark somehow still alive revan plot for revan's death
SW sequel (7-9): poorly written clone of KOTOR, but they had one thing in common, killing their best character luke and revan
@MUHAMMAD AZLAN SHAH BIN HAZIZUL - lol, yeah what you say is true but what that does is delaying, he suffers a lot and meetra died because of revan wanting to confront vitiate alone (he can't do it when he was with alek a.k.a malak, why do you think he stand a chance alone?) instead of making an army, this also the reason why in KOTOR revan willingly use the darkside to make the republic understand, but it was changed in SWTOR because in that moment as darth revan he was still controled by vitiate while in KOTOR he already break free from vitiate's control, kreia said so herself
@MUHAMMAD AZLAN SHAH BIN HAZIZUL - it's a han solo situation for old republic, you know the "han shot first or second" situation :3
SWOTOR isn't cannon. We can only hope he will be written better in the future.
@MUHAMMAD AZLAN SHAH BIN HAZIZUL - Kreia. She is ALLWAYS right. Revan was too strong willed and intelligent for mindcontrol.
He was the force. He was knowledge. He know what had to be done and did it.
His fall was a sacrifice not a fall or mind control.
@@MrDude826 the sequel or should i say rey saga is basically disney trying to canonize KOTOR, rey is bastila (unique hairdo, using staff-like weapon, their clothes got some kind of T in the lower parts i don't know what to call it, and the forced romance plot is basically trying the revan-bastila romance that failed miserably) and kylo is revan (the mask is more like revan than vader imo, so if his story were him trying to become vader wouldn't his mask will reflect vader?) so yeah i'm afraid for the future of KOTOR if they want to canonize that
Revan's greatest feat was getting his life told by Kreia and not getting roasted once. If this happens to you, it means you're absolutely epic (or you're the writer's pet).
I mean Revan WAS her Apprentice, she probably had a soft spot for him.
@@ssjjshawnThe Exile also tanks on the role of her apprentice, and Kreia will not hesitate to roast you if you don't meet her standards.
@@eevee9111Revan was also her first Apprentice.
So Surik got the youngest child treatment, with her own Daughter coming in as the Middle ignored Child and Revan was the Eldest Favorite.
She is still human lol
@@ssjjshawn Kreia didn't have a daughter. The theiry of her being Brianna's mother was confirmed by the devs to not be true. Kreia didn't even participate in the Mandalorian Wars.
@@eevee9111Ah yes because as the Revan Novels prove, the developers definitely have a final say on what's canon...
Anyways, Kriea canonically took up Revans path at the Trayus Academy on Malacor 5. Regardless of if she is or isn't a mother, she followed her Padawans path after he treaded it. In KotoR 2 she doesn't tear into him beyond saying "He wasn't the perfect apprentice for what I current want" (paraphrased ofc)
If she wasn't a biological mother to Brianna she certainly was an adopted one to Revan
“Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the force”
"Even then you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul."
@@briansheehan5256 Meetra Surik: "What do you see when you look at me?"
@@TerminatorGundam300
An bleeding wound in the force
@@TerminatorGundam300 "You...are different. When I look at you, it is like staring at the *death* of the Force."
Revan was literally everything Anakin Skywalker could have been and far more. I love nothing more than the fact that their character is at its heart the player and we shape their legendary story first hand.
"Savior, conqueror, hero, villian. You are all of these things, Revan... and yet you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone".
- Darth Malak
A gray Jedi
The one who walks between the light and the dark.
@@rossvu3561 and yet, he was so much more than that. Because he did not walk a fine line whatsoever.
It’s lonely at the top but Revan wasn’t ever Alome. He always had the Force with him
"Stand alone if you must. But you MUST stand."
It's criminal how few views this has. There are plenty of videos of Revan's timeline accompanied by visuals on youtube and there are several videos of Kreia talking about Revan but this is just the best of both worlds. Then add the epic soundtrack and this is officially amazing. Well done!
I wish the soundtrack starting 1:48 would be a little bit more silent. Basically everytime the warsong starts. That would empower kreias speech more. Then it would be perfect. But it's already very good ;)
th-cam.com/video/Z7oxeCMw8k8/w-d-xo.html jared clark have you ever seen this one its one of the best out there with revans tale actually this one uses a lot of the same quotes and was out first however that might not mean much as it may just mean both ops likes specfic quotes from kreia
Shout out to Kreia's voice actress! Kreia's every word is sculpted so that she just exudes power and knowledge. I feel that she is the perfect balance or container for the legend of Revan. Not a container as if she's restraining him, but hers is the only in-story character that I feel can tell Reven's story. In my opinion she is the perfect, and maybe only, lens to view, and consider Revan. Only power can speak of power.
This.
Kreia's voice is Sara Kestelman. Some people thought it was Kate Mulgrew, who is also an amazing actress and provided the voice for Flemeth in Dragon Age games and of course Captain Janeway.
Knowledge from only one source renders you rigid and and your ideas stagnant. One needs the contrast, many ideas, from many sources, to truly know and understand. Kreia cannot be the only source of Revan's story, and she would chastise you for presuming she could be.
@@tesnacloud And THAT is exactly the point! :)
Kreia herself admits that her strength is nothing compared to Revan and the ancient Sith Lords that he would come to rival. She is a philosopher and a historian, not a warrior like Revan. But you are correct to recognize that her great strength comes from her words and her ability to influence you subtly in the same way that the Force influences the greater galaxy. That is why Kreia tries so hard to teach you about Force Echoes, it is her specialty.
Kreia and Obsidian are a big reason for why Revan is so damn intriguing and awesome. They paid a lot of respect to the first game and his legacy. They expanded on it and made it really fleshed out and interesting... Too bad Bioware didn't give a rats ass about KOTOR 2...
And that's the real tragedy...
Was it even really still Bioware by that point? Or was it just another zombie brand shambling along on the momentum of past glories while the heart and soul, the team of people that had built it up in the first place were long since departed?
@@Joe-xq3zu Unlikely cause afterwards Bioware released absolute masterpieces like Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect. But I am sure there will always be a bigger boomer saying Bioware was already dead after [Insert Game]. Imo Bioware started to went downhills after Dragon Age 2 and truly died after Inquisition and Andromeda.
@@agreeable-youth the end of mass effect could of been better but even then to me they are some of the best role play game makers in the industry
@@agreeable-youth The first Mass Effect only had EA involvement in porting it to PS3 and PC, with preproduction on this game starting in 2004 and being released to the XBOX 360 one month after EA bought BioWare.
Given that Dragon Age’s developent began in 2002, it was mostly developed by a pre-EA BioWare, which in my opinion is a large part of why it was excellent.
I pretty much blame EA for how the franchises have declined, and the later efforts seem to bear this out.
Don’t get me wrong, DA:I and MEA are both decent games, but they are nowhere near as rich as the originals, and really feel similar to ghost-written books to conclude series’ whose authors died before they could be finished.
“You see, the war, the true war, had never been one waged by droids or warships or soldiers, but waged in the hearts of all living things, against our own natures. Light or dark”
This quote rings true, especially 3000 years later with the rise of Darth Vader
Cool to use Yoda’s turn of phrase, ‘crude matter’, too
Perhaps even now as we witness wars in Ukraine and middle east now.
And with while not Star Wars but God of War Ragnoraks message of Nature
"Revan choices was always his own, it was not teaching or examples, it was him" This quote is powerful, and also shows the utter failing that SWTOR did, by taking away his agency. (Making it so that they were dominated by the sith emperor vitiate)
To be fair it's at least mild compared to what Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams did to the movies
He is perfect
Both sides are flawed
The sith use power to hurt others but there could be other sith who turned to this path to protect his own the Jedi are really close minded
the MMO itself isn’t to blame. It’s the novel that came before it which even the SWTOR community disllikes. They don’t even like the little side missions where Revan was a key figure (and even a final boss on the Empire side). Shadow of Revan is a 50/50 tho. Some people say it was great, others think it was pretty bad. That’s up to your interpretation (although I think it was very basic and very unnecessary)
@@EternalChampion1988 Good think SWOTOR is legends. Hope Revan gets fixed.
Revan being dominated by Vitiate was in a book, SWTOR just stuck with the story. One of the followers you get as a Jedi Knight was there and betrayed Revan. T3M4 was also there and got destroyed.
Kreia was alot of the reason revan was as powerful as he was.oit of all his teachers,it was her he listen to most.
*Sips tea*
His story is one of betrayal, just like hers
I believe he would have still been the Great Revan we know still. Kreiawas simply a teacher he admired, she did not seem to influence but rather seemed to understand him and his thoughts, even agree with them.
He learned from many unorthodox masters. His curious and somewhat eccentric nature is something that makes him a compelling character.
She was like a motherly maternal figure in a way she knew him as any mother would know and understand their child despite not being his birth mother. You can tell she loves speaking fondly of her former padawan. In a way she treated the Exile similar going so far to kill the council for trying to harm her despite going before them and Kreia called them out on their arrogance. Cause of how the exile helped them yet they deemed her too dangerous regardless.
I can't get over how AMAZING Kreia is, dialogue and storywise. She was the reason I got intrigued in Revan since I never play KOTOR 1. Dude sounds like a legend through her view.
That's because he was a legend. He singlehandedly saved the galaxy and changed the course of history several times.
I played the 2nd game before the first, hearing all these legends about reven throughout the 2nd. Then play the first and hear his downfall from the jedi, he is an interesting character to say the least and my mind was blown playing the 2nd then 1st
DUDE what are you waiting for, play KOTOR 1 NOW!
Obsidian and Kreia: "Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity... to prevent a greater evil."
Bioware: "haha Tenebrae mind control go brrr haha Revan puppet go brrrrrrrr"
The “greater evil” was Tenebrae. In the end, Revan and Malak still plotted to overthrow him with the Star Forge.
Even though I also liked the idea of Revan “never falling” better, Kreia had a very romanticized view of him. She was only half correct.
Sorry, but I’m one THOSE people who liked the novel.🤷♂️
I saw your KOTOR 3 video and it still got a laugh out of me. 😅
i really disliked that idea. I much prefer the idea revan "fell" to the dark side out of necessity to unite the republic and strengthen it for when the True Sith invaded. Making him be mind controlled by Vitiate removes that agency that is Revan's trademark. It's lame as hell
@@aamirrazak3467 In my eyes he and Malak broke free because of the Star Forge and their own strength.
@@Nephalem2002 I like the idea that they had their own reasons for falling to the dark side, but I don’t like the mind control by vitiate aspect
@@aamirrazak3467 I hated that narrative with every ounce of my being.
I will always love Obsidian for creating Kreia, and turning Reven into a much more complex and interesting character in a just a few lines of dialogue. Such a shame that his depiction in the old republic just wasn't at Obsidians level.
Right, Revan became my favorite character during KotOR 2 when he didn't even appear there.
Ya’ll DO realize SWTOR was just following the book’s story right?
@@knightmare5097 its been awhile so correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Revan fall to the emp to stall him yet was never truly under his control
@@Lunardivider24 There was never an actual Revan in SWTOR. Just parts of him
@@knightmare5097
The garbage book came after the games.
Kreia is the greatest force wielder and force scholar of all time. Not only did she keep searching further, deeper, embracing a broader view than any before her but she was also to afraid to take a stance, to be critical, to formulate an opinion, to put her foot down, setting her strongly apart from wishy-washy grandmasters like Yoda who became vague, submissive and inactive as a price for their understanding, bent to the will of the Force. But Kreia is someone for whom truth and freedom were more important and someone who would spit in the eye of gods and face the universe and fate itself alone if needed.
And yet, even her strength could only do so much before she reached her limits, and her achievement was ultimately failure. We need more students of the Force who understand her legacy, her discoveries to seek an ultimate solution.
But her goal to destroy the force itself was a bit too ambitious I think.
@@Vampirewolfking But a truly intriguing concept. It formulates the question of whether or not the Force is reliant on life to exist, or if life is reliant on the Force. If one is taken out of the equation, what becomes of the other entity? Does cease to exist? Does it slowly deteriorate till nothing is left? Does life go on, but the potential to have anyone and anything as Force-sensitive is rendered unachievable? Can the Force be destroyed in the first place? If so, is it in its' entirety, or only a pocket of the whole? Does the Force extend its' reach solely to the known galaxy before it reaches its' limit, or does the Force exist everywhere even in alternate universes across a multi-verse divided into a single existence?
I would have Kreia as A spirit Guide or a Tulpa (Imaginary Friend), I Think that she Is right sometimes in her teachings
@@Vampirewolfking not really, she did hate the force, but what her plans were actually to deafened those who are force sensitive, I think her argument on hating the force was that to free every living being, sentient or not, from the force's influence, her only goal has always been freedom, true freedom really
She's the Frederic nietzsche of Star wars
The three dislikes are Darth Malak, Darth Nihilus, and Darth Sion
Then who’s the fourth?
@@Schaeffdog2014 his son for not paying his child support
Mandalorion
@@Schaeffdog2014 traya
@@aamirrazak3467 Traya? doubtful considering that revan is one of her best apprentices
In my head canon, the Shan lineage evolved into the Skywalker lineage.
I kind of assumed that the force has had multiple children. The strongest and the most volatile are sent to test and strengthen the galaxy. The force spawned Revan, and Anakin to cut down the horrors. We already saw the video on Revan. Anakin plays into this by how the empire would not have stayed together long enough without Vader. Palpatine didn’t have the raw power. By the time the yuzhon-vog came, the galaxy would have still been recovering from being divided in a new civil war. There wouldn’t be any Leia and Luke to hold the galaxy together either.
@@aekambeerbains3966
Jacen and Jaina too :)
Considering how the Skywalker lineage ended up in Disney Canon.... it's probably for the best that it wasn't.
Revan would have been great for 7, 8, and 9 instead of the crap we got.
What if a future series either movie or tv series set roughly 300-400 years into the future and the force falling out of balance once again and the force chooses to resurrect someone like Revan to bring about a real balance to the force and galaxy. If written properly and rid of SJWs influences, that could create one of the greatest Star Wars storylines ever.
I'd agree man but they'd ruin it so bad.
The problem with 7,8,9 wasn't the setting. The problem was the lack luster writing.
@@ThePoshboy1 Everything about those travesties was wrong.
@A wanted man Absolutely.
Revan and Kreia are true masters of the force that I wish we got to see more of.
One saw the force for what it truly is: a primordial entity that robs agency and gives and takes power as it sees fit.
The other used all aspects of the force to achieve greatness and prepare for an oncoming threat, overcoming its will in the process.
Kreia is right in that the Jedi are naive fools and the Sith too unstable and corrupted to function, and she is proof that a middleground exists, albeit precarious.
Revan also stands as a shining example of what all force wielders should strive to become: overcoming the will of the force and wielding all of it's gifts without being distorted and warped by it.
Correction:
Revan NEVER overcame the force's will; that was Meetra Surik.
Kreia loved and envied Meetra Surik for having thr strength to do what no one else could; free herself. That was the whole premise of 2.
Kreia admired Revan because Revan saw what others could not/would not, and he was willing to pay the ultimate sacrifice to save the entirety of the galaxy from a threat far greater then they had seen before.
Whe Kreia looked at Revan she saw the heart of the force.
When she looked at Meetra she saw the death of it.
It's painful knowing that Star Wars lore will never come close to being this deep and intricate ever again.
Seriously imagine all of this in a movie. I personally think Revan's story is one that needs to be a trilogy. It is that deep and rich in lore. Sadly Lucasfilm does not care nor do they think like us hardcore Star Wars fans. That is why the fanbase hates Lucasfilm in it's current state under Darth Kennedy.
You mean Disney not lucasfilms?
@@WhydoIsuddenlyhaveahandle it wouldn’t be done justice
On the part of the likelyhood of it being a thing under present lucasfilms/Disney, Yea fully Agree. On the topic if it being made in to movies, I dont agree as much. My opinion is that Both reven and the exiles storys would better fit a tv show style of story telling as there is a LOT of space in-between that can be filled in and fleshed out, like a lot of the big battles can be expanded, character interactions could be spruced up, the over arching storys can be interconnected in some ways and so on, whilst some of it or all of it being narrated by Kreia in a way that tells the story of that battle but not what EXACTLY happened, it would have the potential to run as long or longer then even bloody stargate! Tho now that I think of it, I belive it would fit better as an animated show then a live action one, and on top of that slap in the MASTER of animated story telling Genndy Tartakovsky and you got your self a MASTERPICE... and Maybe add in a bit of Dave Filoni for some flare idk
Your work putting this together is really appreciated! Excellent video!
“The either found themselves or found themselves lacking.” Best written character in Star Wars.
I will never forgive Disney for making these characters non-canonical.
Indubitably
It always amazes me that large corporations can never just copy and paste perfection.
@@capdansolo7765 I know! These stories are already written and they are fantastic but rather than getting an already great version of one of them, we get, insert directors name here, take on the story and character and I am simply over it.
Beautiful thank you so much Disney need to do this woman Justice. She doesn't fit within their weak narrative.
Exactly, and that is why they fail.
They want strong, inspirational characters, though fail to realise that there is strength in both age and learning from your mistakes, even if you come to the "wrong" conclusion. Kreia is my favourite character in any media, and will always stay that way. She will never be done justice by them.
@@gnarlax2005 it’s a little late. Frankly considering the job they’ve done, they should have not purchased Star Wars
@@harryunderwood9387 No they want "strong" characters. A strong character is one that grows and truly develops throughout the story. While a "strong" character is one that has all the power and abilities they will need and all their struggles are contrived garbage that makes no sense given their abilities and skills. A strong character might have power and skill but was broken mentally and needs to find the strength to stand up for themselves again. But a "strong" character will do as the plot demands and will face no true struggle. A strong character will have to face their own demons and struggle with them. But a "strong" character will overcome theirs in a instant. In essence they want almost Mary Sue's and even actual Mary Sue's.
Obsidian did such a good job creating Kreia, it's easy to believe that she was Revan's mentor.
Listening to this makes me think of ways the sequel trilogy could have been so much better. Instead of Kylo idolizing Darth Vader how about he idolizes Revan? Kylo's pride makes him think that he must take up the mantle of Sith Lord in order to prepare the galaxy for another threat. This threat can be real or imagined. If it is imagined have it be that Snoke was manipulating Kylo into thinking the destruction he is helping to create is for the greater good.
His character arc can be him discovering that Kylo is not Revan. He is not as skilled, strong or intelligent as Revan and his attempts to emulate Revan were foolishness and pride manipulated by another Sith who was seeking power.
I feel like with good writers this could have made for a much better sequel trilogy. But better then the recent trilogy is a very low bar to go over, and if they used good writers then the sequels would have been better and I would not be having these thoughts.
With Kylo we got a stripped down caedus without the depth or struggles and sacrifices he made on his descent into being a dark lord in the first two thirds of his series
Revan was never captured by the Jedi, actually Malak turned on him and fired on his ship, allowing the Jedi to capture him.
I thought he ended up going out and searching for the rishii main?
The jedi did not captured him. They took an uncuncious man from a broken ship.
I was mistaken. It was Darth Nox who went searching.
"Revan was never captured by the Jedi... ...allowing the Jedi to capture him."
Next time say things back to yourself so they make sense.
@@Saichigo That's still capture.
Here in 2023 because this video is epic. I’ve watched this 25+ times. Legendary work. Kreia’s voice is super soothing and therapeutic
Same. My friends are almost annoyed at how many times I come back to this video
Out of all star wars characters Revan is my favourite. His story is legendary and while alot of people were annoyed at the mind control thing, gotta remember as soon as they left Drommund Kaas it wasnt long till revan and malak broke free not an easy feat as most people struggled to break free of Vitiates control. And still once he had broken free he was still well aware of vititates empire so he knew what he had to do. Still reckon he should have been the one to kill him. And personally the one thing i didn't like about the novel was the killing of meetra surik. All she went through just to be stabbed in the back ... didn't like that at all.
I dont think a trilogy would do Revan justice he deserves at least six movies like Anakin Skywalker. Feel like Revan was the chosen one of the old republic era 😌
He was 😊
Kreia framing Revan becoming a Sith Lord as a sacrifice to strengthen the Republic against Vitiate is galactic levels of genius. Too bad Drew Karpyshyn threw this out the window and went "Lol, Sith Emperor mind tricks Revan into evil". Lame.
KOTOR 2 does a better job at building a character which doesn't even appear in the game than a book solely revolving around said character.
Well, Kreia is the one telling you that, and people who ate too much glue as children and have poor media literacy think that Kreia is unambiguously evil, so of course a Bioware writer would just assume that Revan is the same
This has gotta be one of the best Writing in Star Wars lore history
I personally prefer the narrative that Revan's fall was completely of his own volition. The Emperor called out to him and Malak, and what he saw was so horrific that it convinced him that only a united, strong Empire could even dream of surviving what he saw. It paints him in a much more tragic light, as a great hero who sacrificed everything, even his own image, for what he believed was right.
My god.... the story telling alone is S++, Kreia is such a good story teller she's like the Deckard Cain of star wars it really does make you want to "stay awhile and listen".
This is great stuff... The voice actress for Kreia from KoToR II is just the perfect choice for that role. She should definitely be credited -> Sara Kestelman
Revan: Anakin with none of the downside.
These games came out at the perfect time, people were smarter, more creative, had more ingenuity and weren’t brought down and restricted by corporations. If only we got Kotor 3, what we’ve found out about the game it would’ve been the best and last piece in the puzzle
Revan was going to have an even bigger strategic moment in the third game, they were going to reveal he found the true Sith Empire and you play as the Exile who followed him deep into the Unknown Regions with T3-M4 and HK-47 and they were going to reveal that’s why he waged war against the Republic, he wanted the galaxy to be able to survive after their attack, so he wanted the strongest to be leading, either him or the Republic if they won
Kreia makes it sound as if Revan intentionally allowed himself to fall to the Dark Side to save the Republic from itself. She makes it sound as if only by destroying the Republic as it was and allowing it to rise again from its own ashes would the Republic spur itself into action and mobilize itself against a greater threat.
Yes