Nah everyone is tripping ROBCITY is right. Madara the head of the Uchiha didn't even have people in his own clan pick him to be Hokage. Now he wants to dip after building the Leaf Village...I just unpacked my clothes and hanged up my war outfit, Now you want me to go back to the woods my guy.... Madara left his clan he was the father to the clan and a father doesnt leave his childern when time are tuff. I LOVE Madara character but I agree with Rob City if Madara stayed and done good for the village and his people the Uchiha wouldn't only have 2 Uchiha on earth alive and breathing they would have 10,000+
in any case I think somebody who evidently betrays the village only a few years after it's founding is not a good pick for Hokage. As Naruto himself realised half-way through this show: You don't become HOkage to be respected, you become Hokage BECAUSE YOU ALREADY ARE respected.
@Tobe Lawson Nah Madara tried to warn the Uchiha of the policies of Senju Tobirama and his ideals , what he thought about the Uchiha clan. But he was just seen as power hungry or someone just ruining the relationship between the Senju and Uchiha. He was started to be mistreated and disrespected bybhis own clan . Remember he was the head at the time. He tried to warn them but was misjudged and just thrown away. Tired of all this he left the clan and then thought of Project Tsuki No Mei. This is how things went down. He didn't want to be Hokage in the first place. He didn't abandon the Leaf and the Uchiha because of the grudge that he didn't become Hokage. He wanted Hashirama to become Hokage . He himself didn't want the title. Rob and you guys misinterpreted it. He always tried to warn the Uchiha of their impending doom but he was ignored , misjudged , wrongly viewed as a power hungry and war loving maniac when he instead just wanted to look out for his clan. Tired of all this , after the death of all his family, he propogated a new philosophy and a new plan , Project Tsuki No Me i and left the village.
@@commanda3536 the times that it is bad, it's only when rob talks about yamato and our guys have to defend Kakashi or some other nigga he's hating at the moment
One thing that Rob is missing in his Democracy theory is that the leaf village isn’t a democracy like the US. Look at the three times we’ve seen the Leaf elect a Hokage, it was just a group of about 5-10 people deciding who the Hokage is. Also we seen The Second Hokage select the Third Hokage by himself.
The times in which a Hokage has been selected have mentioned that the new Hokage needs the consent of the Jonin. The Konoha Council has among its members the Anbu Commander and the Jonin Commander, Shikaku Nara. They represent the wishes of presumably thousands of Shinobi. So it's not 5-10 people. The leaf is a democracy in the way of Ancient Rome where full citizenship(political power) is held by the military class.
@@matheuslopesgarcia4616 thats what wellz was saying too tobirama chose hiruzen and kagami,someone whos notable just like hiruzen,and yet he didnt tell them to go back and ask the other shinobi in the village,he just chose hiruzen,so that contrary to what rob is saying,yes rob was right madara wasnt focused on one thing he always saw many ways to go about it,but at the same time well is talking off what actually in the series,tobirama was like democrasy when it came to madara, but before he dies hes gonna just pick hiruzen to be hokage off the bat,thats cheezed and i get that.
Bruh. Those shinobi who madara clapped were the idiots pulling shurikens back from a rock when they fought the mizukage. Wtf u expect that to be a feat? Stomping 5 kage sounds way better
Rob has a point when he says that if Madara had stayed the course then maybe the Uchiha might not have been isolated from the village and wouldn't have planned a coup. Also you could argue Madara leaving only to come back and attack the village actually did more damage to the Uchiha because now they become associated with him. Still this mistake is baked into Madara's character because his biggest failing is his hubris and inability to trust others to accomplish his wishes, that tragedy makes him a good character not a bad one.
Rob was right. You can’t just force ideals on someone (which is funny cause that’s exactly what Madara, his protege Obito and eventually Sasuke did). That has to be worked through together over time. Hashirama vouched for Madara but they had a unique relationship as they knew each other before they even knew the other was Uchiha or Senju. Between the Uchiha and Senju was still bitter history and bloodshed and hatred. Forcing Madara into the Hokage position would’ve made shit worse. They should’ve had equal representation across leadership between all the clans that way everyone was represented and everyone’s interests and qualms were addressed. Something Madara as the second strongest shinobi, a fellow Leaf Village FOUNDER and leader of the Uchiha had the power to do. The problem was Madara just bounced and didn’t really wanna put in the work to make that a reality once he saw it would be tough. His excuse was it was always for the clan, but it was how he personally felt as you can see by how them niggas just stopped following him and let him do stuff on his own. You can’t lead if you thinking individually and not in the best interest of the collective. It’s his fault what ended up happening to the Uchiha happened. And how was attacking the Leaf afterwards better? Who’s best interest did that serve? The Uchiha? Was he gonna kill everyone in the Leaf except Uchiha or was they catching smoke too? Would they have followed him after that? He was emotional and wishy washy. One minute he wanted peace the next he wanted smoke legitimately while Hashirama ALWAYS came to him with the same energy but he knew they had to work together on it that’s why he always extended the olive branch but didn’t force him (he kinda had the power to do so). The moment Madara was alone and thought for himself (claiming he was doing it for the clan, eventually the world) what happened? Nigga came up with one of the most meticulous and well thought out plans ever and executed! Pretty much everything went right lmao. Know why? Cause the nigga was committed, so committed that he came back from the dead to make the shit happen 😂😂😂 he just ain’t trust nobody else like that. Just himself 🤷🏾♂️ I think if he had a brother still alive to help it would’ve been better cause that would’ve been maybe one person he could really trust
Yeah but I mean if his whole life was about war with the Senju and made peace with them, even created the village with Hashirama, even named it to then be overthrown in power after Hashirama himself promised him to be the Hokage so he could feel secure that his people would be safe, is a damn good reason not to stay, you had your brothers and whole family killed by these people, as Madara saw it if Hashirama was persuaded by his brother just because people would have a different opinion on him and would also choose Tobirama then they werent safe at all or being treated as equals. He was promised equality but in reality they were putting themselves above the Uchiha, the coup was gonna happen regardless, Tobirama pushed on the Senjus ideals and circle of hatred on to the village. Also by the time Hashirama spoke to him he already had read the Uchiha stone tablet.
It’s funny cause Rob is actually right, he’s just missing key points to solidify his argument Madara let his fear of Pain stop him from choosing a righteous path
Wellz, Pat and Jerry were spitting facts so I think they were right hahahhaha but okay. Madara is one of the greatest villains bc of his emotions, his philosophies, and ideals. Sooo idk what to tell you in that homie
@@alexandraalvarez7925 Madara is my favorite villain of the show. He’s great... not because he’s perfect but because he’s flawed Him succumbing to his fears and assumptions is his greatest flaw, and the reason we got an amazing anime His decision is a highlight of a trend that all if not majority of the "bad guys” in this show follow And I love his character for it🤗
Yea he’s right but tht doesn’t necessarily make him a bad character it’d actually boost his character since we see how his ideology was changed and molded up to his current ideology
Normally I don't find myself agreeing with Rob but on this I do. What he's getting at is that people don't change over night and that building the village was only the first step not the grand goal. Whenever you have two different tribes that have been at war for longer than most of the people in said tribes have been alive there is going be bad blood on both sides. You cant expect over night that a they are going to trust each other there's going to be tension. With that said if Madara had stayed in the village and helped Hashirama change the image that has been ingrained in the Senju clan of the Uchiha and showed the side of the Uchiha that Hashirama has seen and respects. Also Hashirama would help him change the image the Uchiha clan has of the Senju. They Both need to continue putting in the work to get to that grand goal of peace. If Madara had stayed in the village and did that instead of throwing a fit because he felt he had already done enough, you can bet that the Uchiha clan would have turned out different.
@@danieldancer4065 what did madara do exactly? Bar destroying alliances that hashirama had established and trying to force other nations to bend under konoha.
@ninshu6paths By doing just that, Madera was what Hashirama couldn't be. Hashirama's alliances were made out of desperation by the other nations who knew they never stood a chance. So to those faulty alliances and truces, what were they to do? Let them exist freely with the possibility of becoming a threat later? No. When you have the upperhand you establish that dominance to ensure they wouldn't dare rise up against you. Madara didn't destroy alliances, he solidified them through displays of force. Notice how those nations never tried to openly provoke or start war when Hashirama and Madara were alive. In every great nation there will always a leader's right hand that handles the dirty work.
Rob was actually making sense and you have to think about it like this if the people don’t want madara to be hokage and he’s not the best fit why would he be hokage? And even if madara became hokage the senju would feel some type of way and they would become the uchiha of the village the situation was inevitable
You guys are just being biased bc you like madara be real💀 tobirama wasn’t wrong for wanting a democracy that’s the best type of government situation to have and it’s for the people it’s not like he said the vote was going to be rigged or sum madara just got in his feelings
@@vonnegr271 I don’t think so. Nobody feared the senju, but practically everybody feared masses and the uchiha. Moreover, hashirama was the leader of the senju and there’s no way he’d let the senju do anything, as opposed to madara who was hated and felt the pain that his uchihs brethren were going through. If madara became hokage history would’ve been DRASTICALLY different since tobirama likely wouldn’t have been the second hokage, which means the uchiha never would’ve been pushed to the edge of the village and made head of the police force, which means means they wouldn’t have hated the hokage and leaf village so much. I’m not saying it would’ve went smoothly, but a LOT of the conflict would’ve been avoided
@@Scoundr3ll what do you mean the uchihas literally knew the senju were stronger then them so it would be easier for retaliation against the uchiha so they would go about it just like the leaf went about it when it came to uchiha and tobirama made the uchiha police because he saw it as a form of power in the village not saying he was right but he didn’t have ill intent for it the uchiha didn’t have to be a officer if they didn’t want to they had a choice but just think about it like this your tobirama just getting out of a 30+ year war with the uchiha who killed all of your other brothers besides hashirama killed your parents and your other people has the power to control tailed beast with visual prowess put you under control and reverse a something they don’t like using izanami/izanagi and grows through hate you wouldn’t be on your Ps and Qs if u were tobirama? He’s been losing people to this group of people since he was a kid and know that there powerful
I think a bit of a problem in this backstory that gets neglected and I know Rob is neglecting is how long Madara was ACTUALLY in the village. Madara didn't leave the village right away and was there for YEARS. Even before their fight, it's stated that children grew up to be adults and be of legal drinking age (in Japan it's 20, most parts of the world is between 18-21) and Hiruzen & Danzo's clans both were some of the first to join even before a Hokage was selected. Between the time Hiruzen was a kid being special trained by Hashirama & Tobirama (when the academy and village first started basically) until the fight between Hashirama vs. Madara could've been anywhere from 5-15 years depending on the timeline. Rob is also missing the point of what Tobirama said about the Uchiha's sharingan. The deeper the love, the darker the hate and the more power they get. Madara loved his brother and his clan and from reading the Uchiha stone tablet (literally right behind Sasuke as Hashirama is telling the backstory) he foresaw that the Uchiha was get pushed to the outskirts and be ostracized. Sure Tobirama was right in terms of running things democratically but wasn't right to start pushing the Uchiha away which was further pushed by Danzo's extreme ideology. While Tobirama actually was a very good Hokage in terms of setting many things up and balancing the light and dark things of the village, he ironically let his emotions play out with pushing the Uchiha. Hiruzen took that and by burdening Danzo did a worse job and especially by leading the village into 2 great wars. Minato honestly just didn't have a chance and Tsunade actually has been a very good Hokage considering she was put in a horrible circumstance. I know Rob roasted her for sending out genin to retrieve Sasuke but considering all the Jonin were on A or S-rank missions due to low manpower cause of Hiruzen's mistakes (and Danzo's unwillingness to help being his ties to Orochimaru) she had to do the best she could. Also funny thing is, generally the previous Kage picks the next then the Feudal Lord just approves lol. Only when a Kage dies or incapacitated (like Tsunade being in a coma) is when it's ran democratically
Some SPOILER in this answer.... Yes some time passed, but I still think it's clear that not many years passed. Over all it's somewhat unclear, but neither Hashirama nor Madara or Tobirama seem to age much in the timeframe. Plus after that some more time passed, before Madara would attack the village, which seemed to have happened long before either Hashirama or Tobirama died. It's somewhat unclear how old Hashirama and Tobirama actually got. That in my eyes is TOO short to make the predictions Madara did. In many ways, I think his predictions were more so based on the LIES he read on the Uchiha stone, that were put there by black Zetsu. This (when Madara was in the village)was not a situation of year long age long opression with one side eing the clear opressor and one being the opressed. They just came out of the war, that raged for generations with both sides mutually killing each other. From one day to the next these two sides were asked to not just agree to a seizefire but live peacefully as neighbors and respect each other. Of course, there is mutual distrust which needs a lot of time to resolve and MAdara simply gave up too early. At that point in time when he left the village - his little prediction stone aside - there was nothing that actually proved that they couldn't work together. They had made majo strides in just a few years. I firmly believe that Madara's own actions altimately were more detrimental to both the village and the Uchiha than anything Tobirama ever did. The reason being that while I think Tobirama distrusted the Uchiha, it also seems obvious that he tried to make his brother's dream work. If we see anything with Tobirama, it's that while he thinks his brother is awefully naive, he also very much follows his brother's dreams and tries to make it reality. That includes working with the Uchiha. Yes maybe some of Tobirama's decisions were wrong and ultimately let to more distrust, I firmly believe that he still did it in an attempt to try and fid a peaceful solution how the two clans (and all the other new clans) could coexist. He made some miscalculations. For example he thought giving he Uchiha the power over the police would more tightly connect them too the village, make them feel as if they have an important role in it, grant them the respect of the public and also serve as a somewhat-consolidation for not naming a Uchiha-Hokage. From Tobirama's point of view this all makes sense, as if we know anything about him, Tobirama believes in rules and regulations and authority. And for a time it also seemed like the Uchiha were legitimately proud of that position. However in reality, building the police force just further isolated the Uchiha from the rest of the village, because ultmately, people don't like police. I firmly believe that this is something you can see with mos of Tobirama's actions. Where - yes - he still had lingering distrust of the Uchiha both from the war and from the unstable nature of their sharingans - but ultmately he tried to make it work, however, often didn't consider how certain moves he made would be viewed in the public. This makes sens, because Tobirama might be smart, the creator of many jutsus, the likely best hokage when it comes to the beaurocratic and structural stuff, as well as being powerful - but he doesn't seem to be good wih people. He's not particularly charismatic. On the other hand, Madara gave up on the dream very early on. Even five to ten years is still a short time, considering the magnitude of they wanted to achieve. They wanted to make two (or even multiple) clans who hated and killed each other for generations live peacefully as neighbors. That's not something you can try for five years and then give up, it's a live long project. Never mind that even while still being in the village, Madara did things that damaged the very idea of the village - or rather he and Hashirama had different ideas of the village. Madara then,I think, after being let down by his clan members (who would not follow him into exile) and leving the village I think gave up on the dream AND THE CLAN completely. We know that because he and Obito (in his names) later do things which are not just against the village but damaging to the Clan. Like Obito, who got the idea to create infinite Tusukuyomi to then live with Rin and Kakashi - thus not really caring anymore what happened to the real kakashi, as he would have both back in his genjutsu, Madara it seems, after deciding to create his Tsukuyomi didn't care anymore what happened to his clan either. I bellieve the actions he then took to achieve the dream were far more damaging to the Uchiha over all, than Tobirama's acions.
@@notTheUsualG True and if we take Hashirama's statement as literal (being kids grew up to the age of tasting alcohol which he says it before Hashirama & Madara are in front of the tablet) then we could even assume that Hiruzen, Danzo, Kagami Uchiha and the elders were late teens to early 20s. By timeline narrative, this is highly possible cause it's estimated Hiruzen became Hokage in his mid 20s (like 24-27) even though in the flashback they all looks like they're 17 or 18
@@Ari33sa you are speaking fax u can’t get Peace that easy and if madara had even stayed and had his presence nothing would had happend with the uchia clan. And him going to fight harishama ruined tobirama trust too of the rest of his clan. Madara had also got Obito to do 9 tails attack. Which caused even more.. madara should’ve just talked and let out his feelings to tobirama. But at the same time madara should’ve got the trust that he deserves. It’s tobirama and madara faults. A war is started because of that and many uchia are dead. Naruto has a bad life because of that same with sasuke itachi kakashi and pain. Just because of pride ego
@@notTheUsualG Not even gonna lie, I always wondered who she was and true in the flashback both anime & manga when we see the kids at academy we see Hiruzen, Danzo, Kagami and the elders there (I think Danzo and Hiruzen about to spar). It would make sense that would be her considering she died at age 55 when Obito killed her. Hiruzen during the attack would've been 56 since in part 1 Naruto's age at the beginning is 12. Also didn't know she was a jonin. The more you know lol
@@Mambo-Italianoyeah while he had an uchiha as one of his subordinates. He even mentioned him by name. If he really had prejudice against the uchiha he wouldn’t give such high praise to kagami
@@honsai7409 remind me again who was the one that told hashirama and Kawarama that if they were to ever find peace among the senju and the uchiha that they would need to put aside all their grievances and learn to forgive eachother to ensure a long lasting peace among both the clans? Shit idk but if you ask me that don’t sound like a racist. He clearly stated that he didn’t hate the uchiha, he did however approach the clan with cautiousness because madara left a lasting impression on him. He said what he said to sasuke because he was with orochimaru, the very same guy who had previously used him to attack hiruzen. Not to mention the fact that sasuke gave them an ultimatum that was entirely dependent on whether or not the 1st hokages answer was satisfactory to him. No shit he was gonna respond in the manner that he did. All the dialogue we got from the flashbacks completely went over your head if all you got from it was “tobirama is a racist to the uchiha”
Madera DID step forward in attempt to side with the Senju but Izuna stopped him. Rob was right. How did everyone else not catch that?? Very important part of the future of the Leaf Village.
I think what Rob is trying to say is that Madara makes emotional decisions and constantly switches up, which is the exact point Tobirama made as to why you shouldn't trust them.
@@JBurnz001 Well yeah. "Those guys are assholes so let's treat them like shit". Then when they start retaliating you can say "See, I told you they were bad". You can't subjugate people and act surprised when they get tired of it. Tobirama was wrong for that. He was right about the Madara being an emotional decision maker though.
@@JBurnz001 how is it because of tobirama ? Grow up tobirama was right .. no One would want madara as the first hokage over hashirama ... madara got but hurt over that and said “I’m going to destroy the village “
honestly robs argument was pretty spot on, i wasnt feeling him at first but as he developed it i got it and he was right about the whole madara thing, if madara had stayed, the second hokage wouldnt have been able to do half the stuff he got away with, yeah madara wouldve had to work harder for people to accept him but naruto is a perfect example. hated as the jinchuriki to being beloved as the hero of the village, some people have to work harder than others to get what they want but is it not worth it when you succeed?
3rd Hokage was already the village's favorite. He was the strongest and had the most potential of all the kids at the time. That's the reason Tobirama had him on his squad along with his runner ups. Hokage are voted by the Jonin Council and the Previous Hokage has a huge say in that. Its very probable that Jonin council already accepted Hiruzen as next Hokage incase something happens to the 2nd. 2nd was the smartest hokage. He'd have a contingency like that. Besides, 3rd also personally recommended 4th as hokage. If not for 3rd Naruto's dad would never be hokage. Remember that. Stop hating on Tobirama. Village would be dead in shinobi WW1 if not for him.
@@dhirajmalapati369 yup and that's the whole point of this series. Everyone is seeking peace and understand in their own way but are ultimately failing in finding the correct answer.
Getsuga Allen What does him about to die have to do with what Rob was saying? Just because Tobirama is about to die it doesn’t mean democracy dies with him. I would have understood if he was making Sarutobi hokage temporarily or something at least. It seems like Tobirama was just hiding behind democracy/majority vote in order to ensure Madara didn’t get the position and when the time came for a hokage to be chosen to take his spot he then decided to do what his brother wanted to do all along and anointed Sarutobi. Tobirama is grimy and definitely the worst hokage to ever live.
The hokage definitely got into a huddle before setting off. "Alright, so if I stand there and you stand there, we'll land on each of our heads on the cliff right?" "I don't understand, why do we need to--" "Because it'll look cool!"
@@xmaster6214 yeah but he’s one of the founders of the channel and he plays a vital role because most fans love to hate him and that helps the channel get views.
Rob dissecting of Madara is actually legit Madara is my favorite character but he only sees strength as physical capabilities not a mentality and he wasn't hokage he should have opted for another uchiha to be hokage and try to prove Tobirama wrong about the uchiha instead he just said I give up on enduring for the village
Madara saw the Leaf Village as a temporary establishment of peace and order. It wouldn’t last in the long run. (And he was right) So he opted for the Infinite Tsukuyomi, which would bring eternal peace, that would last forever. Madara gave up on the Leaf Village, as he was looking beyond that. He was looking at something more grand and more absolute. He literally states this to Hashirama.
He does have a point but he sees it too black and white and doesn’t acknowledge the stipulations of the uchihas discrimination. No one can deny that tobirama wanted democracy solely because it was advantageous to the uchiha’s weakening. You could’ve very easily appointed two leaders as we see sarutobis consist of 4. Shit assign a council comprised of the leaders of each clan. Rob is correct about aspects but his complete disregard for information outside of HIS points is astounding. Choosing a democracy at that moment in time was a poor decision, they could have very easily decided that both the creators should have time leading and THEN went to a democracy. Poor handling by leaf village leaders yet again. Only one that didn’t fuck up at this period in time was Minato.
I'm with Rob on the 2nd Hokage, he didnt blatantly hate the Uchiha, he was just the only one at the time who was willing to speak facts to the 1st, while Hashirama was just caught up in his emotions wanting to support his friend Madara.
Rob legit says the dumbest things almost every reaction. Yea Madara couldn't protect his brother, it's war! Hashirama also lost his brother, Naruto couldn't save Neji because he sacrificed himself, and you will see what actually happened with Kakashi and Rin! Neither Madara or Kakashi is a bitch, I can't believe I actually have to write this.
Y’all niggas need to stfu Yamato’s is definitely not no dust do not disrespect Yamato’s like a push over like he didn’t aid naruto in training naruto literally could not have got half as strong as he did without Yamato
42:03 Rob, I get what you're saying, that distrust could be implied by refusing to go but! that same distrust could be misunderstood for another scenario like a case of refusal for selfish gain or for outright rebellion. You dont have to trust someone to go somewhere, You could still say, "Hey I trust you but ama stay behind because I want to benefit myself only". Simply not trusting someone isnt the main reason for people refusing to follow that very person (UNLESS) the very words, "Im not going because I do not trust you" come out of their mouths. Then thats a fact that can't be denied.
I think the reason Naruto works so well across cultures is the fact that it is reflective of today's world. We can all relate to the incidents happening at Konoha (on some level). Always sparks a good discussion.
@@TH3FU113ZT trolls can be dumb idiots asking for attention and from what I've seen the past two years watching this channel Rob is definitely not a troll lmao
I wish I could be there for your discussions Rob a quick reminder: - Tobirama basically inherited the Hokage seat - The 3rd Hokage was hand picked by Tobirama during a battle (no vote) - Minato was selected by the 3rd after resigning to counter Orochimaru & the information was shared on a notice board (no vote) - Jiraya was almost forced by the high council to be hokage after the 3rd died (no vote) - Tsunade was picked by Jiraya after turning it down (no vote) - Kakashi was almost forced to be hokage (no vote) Also all these decisions were made between 7 people & the final decision is made by 1... What was that about democracy? 🤣🤣🤣
Every hokage selecion pass through a concil which the members represents the clans and the citizens. Isn't that simple, but the anime don't show this everytime. But is very explicit that must have the aproval of another "high" jonin and the fire lord. After all, the hokage must coordenate and have the trust of every clan that composs the village.
Rob listen Madara true intentions are for Peace , since the start he hated the Idea of two clans fighting till the end , him and Hashirama , Rob when Madara became the Leader he had a purpose to fight for the Uchiha but its Not his Dream , his dream is Peace , when Hashirama was gonna kill himself he remembered his dream , but Madara like pain like Obito realized that as long as there is Love there will be hate and you can never have true peace , and the proof is The Uchiha Later on were gonna betray Konoha , You need to realize that Madara was Smarter than most of them and knew there is never gonna be true peace , and this is realistic more than What Rob Saying
Actually you’re wrong madara didn’t do it for peace. It was to satisfy his ego by being petty because according to him the shinobi world was hashirama creation and he wanted to make a better flawless one in genjutsu. Madara was exactly like danzo, defeated losers who couldn’t overcome their rivals. He wasn’t smart all he did was corrupt innocent kid then get played by black zetsu. Because he couldn’t deal with reality,he chose to chase dreams and almost doomed humanity. How is he smart?
@@MadaraUchiha-cb8tb no the debate at the end, don’t get me wrong, Madara is one on my favorite characters, but rob was right, you just don’t abandon your people and change your mind if something doesn’t go as planned
Im pretty sure Madara's way of thinking wasnt like the Uchiha's in the first place thats why he chose to atleast give a truce with the Senju's a chance cause like Hashirama, he also wanted peace..but i understand Rob, this is why they need him on the reactions 💯
Rob is actually speaking facts. I understand both sides, their reasons and their argument but if we don't involve our feelings about the character and how badass he is and instead are realistic about the whole situation then Rob is speaking FACTS NO CAP
Great debate! I think Rob is actually right about everything leading up to the point of chosing a leader BUT one thing he is missing is that it's hard to make a decision when you know you want peace but you don't want your brothers and family die for no reason. That's why Madara went back and forth on his decision. Also Tobirama did NOT kill the uchiha but it created the catalyst for the path that lead to that. At the end of the day, it was Danzo and Lord 3rds fault the Uchiha died.
*Tobirama:* "From now on things will be democratic." *Also Tobirama:* "Hiruzen from tomorrow you will be the Hokoge." -Tobirama choosing Hiruzen to be the 3rd Hokage on HIS own.
I mean they were in the middle of a war at that point so it makes sense that they'd have to be more direct at that moment. In peace time the village elects the Hokage as we've repeatedly seen.
The former is Tobirama cautioning Hashirama from unilaterally choosing a leader that no one, not even the Uchiha, will support in an untested concept that is the leaf village. The latter is naming a new leader in a wartime emergency because the current leader is about to die in 10-15 minutes. Presumably, like Tsunade and Danzo, for Sarutobi's position to become permanent, he would have needed the consent of the Jonin and the Fedual Lord. Just like a democracy.
I may disagree with Rob most of times but one thing I agree with him is his views on Tobirama. Lord Second is straight to the point, logical and all his beliefs and ideology has valid reasons.
So it's okay to ostracize a whole village because of what one person did? You know I hear people say we suck off Madara even though all he ever did was see the world for what it is but you tobirama fanboys and fangirls make me sick. There is nothing this man ever did that was for the betterment of the shinobi world. In fact, even Orochimaru called him out on being responsible for most of what happened. I mean Hashirama was on board with Madara being the leader of the village until that two faced POS went behind his back and turned his own clan against him.
@@aanthony6168 Kabuto is quite powerful though. It's just bad luck that his only main fight in that state was against Itachi and Sasuke, and he still gave them some trouble.
Yamato was protecting Bee's assistant and let himself get captured. Also spoilers but Yamato's power bodued the entire Shinobi alliance. Yamato is the body summoned the Shinzu Senju and was destroying everyone. Even an edo Hiruzen was finidng it difficult to fight him. Yamato is very underrated. He never went all out against Sasuke because he wanted to capture Sasuke. When he was about to go all out, Orochimaru intervened and sasuke retreated.
Exactly, he was ABOUT to take a step towards Hashirama, but he didn't. Rob literally said he was walking towards it my guy so they weren't really wrong but not right either
Rob was stating facts. Madara wavered too much. If he was really all about one goal and one objective, he wouldn't have questioned his ideologies. Also Danzo was the main culprit in the Uchiha massacre. Sure Tobirama didn't trust some Uchiha but Uchiha are predisposed to grow stronger when more hatred enters their heart. Danzo was just a racist and Hiruzen failed in putting Danzo in his place so Danzo had too much power. Hiruzen was the worst Hokage.
@@spinal1280 He believed in the Infinite Tsukuyomi and he literally stood by it for a lifetime. He never wavered about that and he stood by it for far far far longer than Hashirama ever did with Konoha. Not a single human character stood by an ideology more than Madara did with the Infinite Tsukuyomi and when he dies he literally claims that his dream was crushed, he still thought that the Infinite Tsukuyomi as he perceived it was the ideal way of living. It's funny to say Madara wavers too much when no human character stood by an idea longer than he did. Simple as that.
369 episodes in Rob has still not realized that Yamato's wood style is no where close to Hashirama's. Even though characters who knew Hashirama and Yamato have said more than once that Yamato's wood style does not compare to Hashirama's.
Ok I hate to say this but Rob is right How can Pat AGREE with anything Danzo did to the village but disagree with the Second Hokaged, Dude try to kill the 3rd Hokage and Pat try to defend him. The Uchiha final down fall was DANZO trickery and the 3rd Hokage being too soft If 3rd Hokage kill Danzo things would have been different And what cause the Uchiha being kick out the Village in the 1st place??? It was obIto who MADARA save and Convinces him into his plan Rob is also right about the leader thing, if I trust my leader and he said something isn’t right and tht we should leave I’m following him Madara attacking the Village which has UCHIHA and SENJU at the time so I don’t see why he wasn’t attacking his ppl then.
Nah I’m with Yellow shirt man, Tobirama is on point. The strength of the Sharigan comes from hatred. So for the Uchiha to be more effective in battle they need to keep up there cycle of hatred. Tobirama sees this being a no win situation in the future.
Madara literally said he found a new dream before leaving🤦🏾♂️ this guy needs to pay attention. Madara literally didn’t care about the world itself after leaving because he knew he was gonna create his dream world. Rob needs to watch the series by himself or something.
@Mad4Life madara actually didn’t go back to kill his people... did you watch or read the series. He went back to the village to fight hashirama. He just pose a threat to the village because he knew hashirama would do anything to keep the village safe. He literally said it before he left the village.
@@drakecoleman9939 they literally say he attacked the village... Then got in a fight with hashirama who protected it... He literally don't care about the whole clan getting killed by obito
@@getsugaallen6612 yeh he attacked he village but he didn’t destroy it. He went to fight hashirama that’s all and why should he care about the clan getting wiped out when he predicted it all along?
@@drakecoleman9939 yea you right, madara wanted the senju chakra (hashirama dna), it didn't matter how he did tbh. His plan was infinite tsukiyomi not destroying the village
My guy if u dont trust somebody ur not gonna follow them. When ur people dont follow u it means they ve lost trust in u or ur vision. Its really that simple
@@jasonbarnes6898 theres multiple reasons that people didnt want to go some probably liked it there others fucked with hashirama but to say its trust is dumb they have no reason not to trust him that makes no sense
We cant blame the hokage for “being a terrible hokage” , yes bad decisions were made by different hokage but every hokage is just trying to do what’s best for the village or what situation is at hand.. and everyone thinks different and may have different philosophies with different perspectives and at the end of the day , we may can see a possible outcome of the future but there are infinite possibilities of the future and all the hokage can do is made a decision to the best of there abilities. so we cant ever really blame any hokage for their decisions unless they deliberately were trying to cause damage or their intentions weren’t pure in thinking of everyone within the village, unlike tobirama and danzo who pushed the uchiha to the edge but the again they did what they thought was best for the village
The funny part is Danzo is quite literally Tobirama’s ideology taken to its extreme. Most didn’t know the 2nd DID trust some Uchiha and really understood the possible good that Uchiha could be. They misunderstood the 2nd’s stance on the Uchiha and thought he didn’t trust them at all with good reason, leading to extreme measures.
@@shaunclutch9062 Rob is wishy washy willpower gang is a joke says hashirama is in it but won't even put respect on his name still stuck on a foot soldier level dude in Yamato calling him a god Rob can't say he stands by his ideals he was trying to be a glasses wearing intellectual but he ain't smart enough so he goes back to being a fucking cornball to annoy fans of naruto
@@shaunclutch9062 nah I don't mean the characters he claims are bad I mean his concept of willpower gang is bad he will shit on a character for dumb reasons then hype up Yamato for no reason fuck Rob
They were in a middle of a war with another villages and the probable death of the Hokage. Do you expected elections and reunions with the leader of each clan in that situation?
Madara did switch up a lot 🤷🏽♂️ he brought the uchiha with him then told them to dip as soon as he saw that it wasn’t on his favor. Then he says he wants to protect the uchiha but came back to destroy the village as a whole.
@neku if madara stayed in the village and endured the hardship like a true leader their position would have been better. MLK endured the hardships and now it’s better for African Americans in the us. Madara could have been the same and maybe the 3rd or 4th hokage could have been an uchia. Madara flaked and it hurt his people the most
No I kinda agree with what he’s saying but he’s whole character or personality idk is corny and definitely takes away from what he says a lot. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong It’s just what happened
I'm with rob on this one tbh. Wells and pat kept flip flopping and nitpicking words. I for one think that madara leaving and then coming back to attack the village, hurt the uchihas rep.
I’m growing to start siding with Rob more and more as the episodes go on. I like how he sees perspectives other than the ones that kishimoto intended us to see as a viewer following our protagonists💯💯💯
Do niggas pay attention? The uchiha weren’t relocated to a remote area of the village under surveillance until after the nine tails attack which was orchestrated by madara...
Rob always comes with these dumb ass theories when he didn't even pay attention to half the episode because he was busy trash talking a character weather it be Kakashi, Madara etc...
Hashirama wanted Madara to stay and become hokage, but tobirama wanted to create a democracy. Madara heard about this and just left his ppl and the village instead of thigh in it out for his ppl, and that was the wrong move. Rob is correct
@@finessekid3661 some things he said didn’t make sense actually like the reason madara leaving the village and coming back to fight. If he paid attention he would know that madara came back to execute his plan not kill everyone. Madara had to pose a threat to the village to make hashirama fight him because even before he left he brought up what would he sacrifice for the village. Madara left because he found a new dream. He wouldn’t have made a good hokage which he did actually admit. Cause he don’t like people behind him.
Rob bodied the three of them here .. they clearly misunderstood the 2nd hokage .. it was madara obito danzo and hiruzen who's resposible for the demise of the uchiha .. the 2nd hokage clearly placed them in the middle of the village as police but when obito attacked with the nine tails they placed them to the secluded part of the village due to suspicions .. so it's true that madara was never a great leader and the one who destroyed and killed his clan
Segregation is not a solution... Uchiha weren’t even allowed to help during the invasion which they were blamed for lol. Police force was a step in the right direction I suppose but ultimately meant nothing in the grand scheme
@@himu6948 it started with madara .. even though if he became hokage it would still be the same outcome .. madara was as confused as sasuke .. he was even manipulated by zetsu .. and tobirama was right .. madara never really proved himself yet to the people .. so even if it would take years he should have worked for it but he chose not to .. tobirama had nothing to do with how madara thinks .. he keeps on changing his mind/goal that's why even his people abandon him ..
@@CasualTee madara was responsible for the attack of nine tails that's the reason why they moved the uchiha .. tobirama placed them in the middle .. the nine tails attack happened when tobirama was already long dead lol .. it was danzo and the 3rd who loved them not tobirama .
Rob’s points are actually very astute . Hashirama’s viewpoint on Madara was not the village’s viewpoint . You can’t just put that on them as much as he is your best friend. That was were Hashirama was naive . Especially when the uchiha clan themselves almost rated Madara their own clansmen below Hashirama.
Rob actually made a good point about Madara. He did keep switching sides hence the clan not following him. He always impresses at random times, but now he gone try to use this as fuel to be a hater 🙄 only downfall when he actual makes sense
Because at this point, it's distracting. The only time in the past few months that I've enjoyed a reaction to this series from them is when he dropped the act for the Kakashi flashback and when dude tells him Yamato is dead. Only reason I'm sticking around is because: 1. I make it a point to finish anything that I start. 2. Part of me wants to see the rest of the guys stop mid reaction, look at each other, tie him up in a chair, put a sock in his mouth, then continue like nothing happened.
That's definitely true. To me he comes off as FAKE. That's switch up a couple of vids before was disturbing. I skip whenever this guy talks bc it's nonsense and don't feel it genuine.
Never thought the day would come but I actually agree with Rob on Tobirama. It’s true the 2nd didn’t trust the Uchiha but he didn’t just out of nowhere did everything to ostracized them. Hashirama wanted to make Madara the Hokage while Tobirama said that it should be the villagers’ choice and the feudal lord’s decision on who is to become Hokage which was Hashirama. Madara took it as the Senju wanting to take control and he tried to rally the Uchihas which led the Uchiha to turn their back on Madara and Madara became the village’s first traitor. Tobirama created the Uchiha Police Force to establish trust between the Uchiha and the village. And yes, it backfired because the Police Force was stationed near the edge of the village which led them to believe that they had no political power and made them feel isolated but they were compliant. They were truly isolated when the nine tails attacked. Danzo and the elders suspected the Uchiha was behind the attack so they rounded all of the Uchiha and created the Uchiha compound in a remote spot in Konoha which led to more tension and finally the coup d'etat. So Tobirama sowed the seeds but he never truly wanted the Uchiha to rebel, it was Danzo and the elders that pushed them so far. Tobirama was the realist amd Hashirama was the idealist.
So we can all agree that Yamato was taken out of the series because of plot convenience as otherwise he would solve the entire war situation in a single episode.
Both sides made good points. If Madara had stayed with the village there is the possibility that the village would have eventually come to respect the uchiha. If Madara had been made the first hokage the village would see that the person they looked up to trusted an uchiha and gave them a chance. Both sides could have led to the same product of the uchiha being respected instead of feared.
100% agree with Robb at the start of the discussion so far edit I was with Robb 100% all the way through, we don't know what would've happened but if Madara had stayed too either be the right hand man then the village would've shown more love too the Uchha, he might've even been the second hokage and then things would've played out differently. But we'll never know
If u want to call untreated mental illness trolling then i guess so...What is he gaining from being antagonistic for no reason ? It’s not adding shit, all he’s doing is ruining good and valid ass reactions from everyone else.
God of Gods Dennis the only time he’s thought about is when I’m watching the videos and he’s there cause that’s obviously unavoidable. After the shit over, he’s not thought about broski💀
Rob was right. You can’t just force ideals on someone (which is funny cause that’s exactly what Madara, his protege Obito and eventually Sasuke did). That has to be worked through together over time. Hashirama vouched for Madara but they had a unique relationship as they knew each other before they even knew the other was Uchiha or Senju. Between the Uchiha and Senju was still bitter history and bloodshed and hatred. Forcing Madara into the Hokage position would’ve made shit worse. They should’ve had equal representation across leadership between all the clans that way everyone was represented and everyone’s interests and qualms were addressed. Something Madara as the second strongest shinobi, a fellow Leaf Village FOUNDER and leader of the Uchiha had the power to do. The problem was Madara just bounced and didn’t really wanna put in the work to make that a reality once he saw it would be tough. His excuse was it was always for the clan, but it was how he personally felt as you can see by how them niggas just stopped following him and let him do stuff on his own. You can’t lead if you thinking individually and not in the best interest of the collective. It’s his fault what ended up happening to the Uchiha happened. And how was attacking the Leaf afterwards better? Who’s best interest did that serve? The Uchiha? Was he gonna kill everyone in the Leaf except Uchiha or was they catching smoke too? Would they have followed him after that? He was emotional and wishy washy. One minute he wanted peace the next he wanted smoke legitimately while Hashirama ALWAYS came to him with the same energy but he knew they had to work together on it that’s why he always extended the olive branch but didn’t force him (he kinda had the power to do so). The moment Madara was alone and thought for himself (claiming he was doing it for the clan, eventually the world) what happened? Nigga came up with one of the most meticulous and well thought out plans ever and executed! Pretty much everything went right lmao. Know why? Cause the nigga was committed, so committed that he came back from the dead to make the shit happen 😂😂😂 he just ain’t trust nobody else like that. Just himself 🤷🏾♂️ I think if he had a brother still alive to help it would’ve been better cause that would’ve been maybe one person he could really trust
I like that they have a very serious discussion about this, and that's the part I'm waiting for from watching them, unlike other reactions that immediately close without discussion like them. Keep going Rob and everyone, I really like this, there are differences of opinion and very exciting discussions
Somebody needs to snap Rob out of this OG Yamato genjutsu. Hashirama is on a whole different level 🔥
😂😂 deadass every episode
by now he just says it because the others get annoyed by it
Yea dude a troll with that dumb ass transparent haircut
Hashirama is a level
and he called madara a bitch lol
Yamato's greatest wood style accomplishment... building a house.
That shit did have furniture tho😳
LMAO I'm dead 😂😂😂
No cap
You killed me hahah
moufid atieh not giant just waterfall
Even Yamato told himself that his powers pale compared to first Hokage check episode 44 of naruto shippuden .
Yes facts
Faxxxx...👍
But For RoB that's OG Yamato😅
They know.
Pale? More like non-existent
100% Exactly. It bears repeating once again, Rob isn't just a clown, he's the entire circus.
Everytime Rob calls the God of Shinobi Hashirama OG Yamato, we all lose 1 brain cell.
Whenever he starts talking bro I swear 🤣🤣
Exactly
😂😂😂
Stop listening then tf
Man looks like he eats his own boogers
If that were true id have negative brain cells right now man
Nah everyone is tripping ROBCITY is right. Madara the head of the Uchiha didn't even have people in his own clan pick him to be Hokage. Now he wants to dip after building the Leaf Village...I just unpacked my clothes and hanged up my war outfit, Now you want me to go back to the woods my guy.... Madara left his clan he was the father to the clan and a father doesnt leave his childern when time are tuff. I LOVE Madara character but I agree with Rob City if Madara stayed and done good for the village and his people the Uchiha wouldn't only have 2 Uchiha on earth alive and breathing they would have 10,000+
in any case I think somebody who evidently betrays the village only a few years after it's founding is not a good pick for Hokage. As Naruto himself realised half-way through this show: You don't become HOkage to be respected, you become Hokage BECAUSE YOU ALREADY ARE respected.
facts and if you’re in patreon you know patrick agreed with him after this
@@ezymz2670 what did he say?
@Tobe Lawson Nah Madara tried to warn the Uchiha of the policies of Senju Tobirama and his ideals , what he thought about the Uchiha clan. But he was just seen as power hungry or someone just ruining the relationship between the Senju and Uchiha. He was started to be mistreated and disrespected bybhis own clan . Remember he was the head at the time. He tried to warn them but was misjudged and just thrown away. Tired of all this he left the clan and then thought of Project Tsuki No Mei. This is how things went down. He didn't want to be Hokage in the first place. He didn't abandon the Leaf and the Uchiha because of the grudge that he didn't become Hokage. He wanted Hashirama to become Hokage . He himself didn't want the title. Rob and you guys misinterpreted it. He always tried to warn the Uchiha of their impending doom but he was ignored , misjudged , wrongly viewed as a power hungry and war loving maniac when he instead just wanted to look out for his clan. Tired of all this , after the death of all his family, he propogated a new philosophy and a new plan , Project Tsuki No Me i and left the village.
@@metalskull8687 Exactly
I love how they actually take discussing about it so seriously and put their mind into it and come to an actual senseful conclusion.
Facts. Sometimes the discussions are bad but this was one of the times it was actually good.
@@commanda3536 the times that it is bad, it's only when rob talks about yamato and our guys have to defend Kakashi or some other nigga he's hating at the moment
true I like listening to dese typa arguments and see different perspectives on wut they jus watched and heard
rob is dumb idk what show he’s watching
One thing that Rob is missing in his Democracy theory is that the leaf village isn’t a democracy like the US. Look at the three times we’ve seen the Leaf elect a Hokage, it was just a group of about 5-10 people deciding who the Hokage is. Also we seen The Second Hokage select the Third Hokage by himself.
The second chose the third in a completely different scenario
The times in which a Hokage has been selected have mentioned that the new Hokage needs the consent of the Jonin. The Konoha Council has among its members the Anbu Commander and the Jonin Commander, Shikaku Nara. They represent the wishes of presumably thousands of Shinobi. So it's not 5-10 people. The leaf is a democracy in the way of Ancient Rome where full citizenship(political power) is held by the military class.
@@ayoa1173 yea shikaku was the jonnin commander
The village is a democracy, that’s why orochimaru got salty and turned against the village, cus the ppl elected minato for hokage over himself
@@matheuslopesgarcia4616 thats what wellz was saying too tobirama chose hiruzen and kagami,someone whos notable just like hiruzen,and yet he didnt tell them to go back and ask the other shinobi in the village,he just chose hiruzen,so that contrary to what rob is saying,yes rob was right madara wasnt focused on one thing he always saw many ways to go about it,but at the same time well is talking off what actually in the series,tobirama was like democrasy when it came to madara, but before he dies hes gonna just pick hiruzen to be hokage off the bat,thats cheezed and i get that.
Rob disrespectful to Madara calling him a bitch when he one handed all the Shinobi alliance by himself, but sucks of Hashirama because Yamato
robs disrespect is usually filled with half truths. you could say madara was a bitch in some certain areas ;)
@@IKIGAIofficial that’s facts
Ain’t you sucking Madara yourself?
@@merk2972 bob? Bob the Builder
Bruh. Those shinobi who madara clapped were the idiots pulling shurikens back from a rock when they fought the mizukage. Wtf u expect that to be a feat? Stomping 5 kage sounds way better
Rob has a point when he says that if Madara had stayed the course then maybe the Uchiha might not have been isolated from the village and wouldn't have planned a coup. Also you could argue Madara leaving only to come back and attack the village actually did more damage to the Uchiha because now they become associated with him. Still this mistake is baked into Madara's character because his biggest failing is his hubris and inability to trust others to accomplish his wishes, that tragedy makes him a good character not a bad one.
I wholeheartedly agree
I agree but people dickride madara way too much to admit this fact
Rob was right. You can’t just force ideals on someone (which is funny cause that’s exactly what Madara, his protege Obito and eventually Sasuke did). That has to be worked through together over time. Hashirama vouched for Madara but they had a unique relationship as they knew each other before they even knew the other was Uchiha or Senju. Between the Uchiha and Senju was still bitter history and bloodshed and hatred. Forcing Madara into the Hokage position would’ve made shit worse. They should’ve had equal representation across leadership between all the clans that way everyone was represented and everyone’s interests and qualms were addressed. Something Madara as the second strongest shinobi, a fellow Leaf Village FOUNDER and leader of the Uchiha had the power to do. The problem was Madara just bounced and didn’t really wanna put in the work to make that a reality once he saw it would be tough. His excuse was it was always for the clan, but it was how he personally felt as you can see by how them niggas just stopped following him and let him do stuff on his own. You can’t lead if you thinking individually and not in the best interest of the collective. It’s his fault what ended up happening to the Uchiha happened. And how was attacking the Leaf afterwards better? Who’s best interest did that serve? The Uchiha? Was he gonna kill everyone in the Leaf except Uchiha or was they catching smoke too? Would they have followed him after that? He was emotional and wishy washy. One minute he wanted peace the next he wanted smoke legitimately while Hashirama ALWAYS came to him with the same energy but he knew they had to work together on it that’s why he always extended the olive branch but didn’t force him (he kinda had the power to do so). The moment Madara was alone and thought for himself (claiming he was doing it for the clan, eventually the world) what happened? Nigga came up with one of the most meticulous and well thought out plans ever and executed! Pretty much everything went right lmao. Know why? Cause the nigga was committed, so committed that he came back from the dead to make the shit happen 😂😂😂 he just ain’t trust nobody else like that. Just himself 🤷🏾♂️ I think if he had a brother still alive to help it would’ve been better cause that would’ve been maybe one person he could really trust
rob won this debate tbh pat was saying crazy sht
Yeah but I mean if his whole life was about war with the Senju and made peace with them, even created the village with Hashirama, even named it to then be overthrown in power after Hashirama himself promised him to be the Hokage so he could feel secure that his people would be safe, is a damn good reason not to stay, you had your brothers and whole family killed by these people, as Madara saw it if Hashirama was persuaded by his brother just because people would have a different opinion on him and would also choose Tobirama then they werent safe at all or being treated as equals. He was promised equality but in reality they were putting themselves above the Uchiha, the coup was gonna happen regardless, Tobirama pushed on the Senjus ideals and circle of hatred on to the village. Also by the time Hashirama spoke to him he already had read the Uchiha stone tablet.
The tiny glimpses of agreement between Rob and the boys makes me feel happy. Then he goes back to calling lord 1st OG Yamato 😫
41:17 Rob looks like a mad scientist explaining to a board of directors why they should keep funding him
lmao this 100%
Like Doc Ock in Spider-Man ps4😂😂😂
LMAO
Lmao the way the three of them were poker faced dead silent
lmao and look everyone elses posture, they just trying hard to keep it all together after hearing this dude.
Must feel bad that OG Orochimaru destroyed yamato, right rob?
Fake orochimaru
Lol why he’s OG Orochimaru when he’s younger ? Lol
He took a fake orochimaru to destroy yamato😂
😂😂
@@patreonlinks4452 he’s capping guys
It’s funny cause Rob is actually right, he’s just missing key points to solidify his argument
Madara let his fear of Pain stop him from choosing a righteous path
all rob has to say is "Itacgi said it himself" THE VILLAGE ELECTS THE HOKAGE..
Wellz, Pat and Jerry were spitting facts so I think they were right hahahhaha but okay. Madara is one of the greatest villains bc of his emotions, his philosophies, and ideals. Sooo idk what to tell you in that homie
@@alexandraalvarez7925 Madara is my favorite villain of the show. He’s great... not because he’s perfect but because he’s flawed
Him succumbing to his fears and assumptions is his greatest flaw, and the reason we got an amazing anime
His decision is a highlight of a trend that all if not majority of the "bad guys” in this show follow
And I love his character for it🤗
@@RareONE_G yeaaaah! Agree :) I never said he was perfect and yessss he is a villain after all hahahaha
Yea he’s right but tht doesn’t necessarily make him a bad character it’d actually boost his character since we see how his ideology was changed and molded up to his current ideology
Why’s rob getting mad when someone cuts him off, but he did it the whole time....respectful my ass😭😂
Fr Rob was being a bitch in this episode if my boy was talking to me like this we fighting you better let me talk fool I heard you out
Normally I don't find myself agreeing with Rob but on this I do. What he's getting at is that people don't change over night and that building the village was only the first step not the grand goal. Whenever you have two different tribes that have been at war for longer than most of the people in said tribes have been alive there is going be bad blood on both sides. You cant expect over night that a they are going to trust each other there's going to be tension. With that said if Madara had stayed in the village and helped Hashirama change the image that has been ingrained in the Senju clan of the Uchiha and showed the side of the Uchiha that Hashirama has seen and respects. Also Hashirama would help him change the image the Uchiha clan has of the Senju. They Both need to continue putting in the work to get to that grand goal of peace. If Madara had stayed in the village and did that instead of throwing a fit because he felt he had already done enough, you can bet that the Uchiha clan would have turned out different.
but madara did do enough
CAP but go off. This tells me that you don’t have the capacity to understand the philosophies, character’s minds and concepts. But okay?
@@danieldancer4065 what did madara do exactly? Bar destroying alliances that hashirama had established and trying to force other nations to bend under konoha.
@ninshu6paths By doing just that, Madera was what Hashirama couldn't be. Hashirama's alliances were made out of desperation by the other nations who knew they never stood a chance. So to those faulty alliances and truces, what were they to do? Let them exist freely with the possibility of becoming a threat later? No. When you have the upperhand you establish that dominance to ensure they wouldn't dare rise up against you. Madara didn't destroy alliances, he solidified them through displays of force. Notice how those nations never tried to openly provoke or start war when Hashirama and Madara were alive. In every great nation there will always a leader's right hand that handles the dirty work.
@@tyrellsmith5346then how did hashirama die?
Bruh Yamato is like a cell of Hashirama. This boi tripping
And you came from your moms cells and DNA so she is your OG💯 just like Yamato came from the first hokage
i reallly think he trolling
@@Dbrosgamong yes and no
@@gustavomungia2829 he actually is but people take his jokes way too seriously lol
Rob just hates character development and never wants characters to evolves unless he likes them from the very beginning. GROW UP CITY...I mean ROB
Rob was actually making sense and you have to think about it like this if the people don’t want madara to be hokage and he’s not the best fit why would he be hokage? And even if madara became hokage the senju would feel some type of way and they would become the uchiha of the village the situation was inevitable
You guys are just being biased bc you like madara be real💀 tobirama wasn’t wrong for wanting a democracy that’s the best type of government situation to have and it’s for the people it’s not like he said the vote was going to be rigged or sum madara just got in his feelings
@@vonnegr271 true
@@vonnegr271 I don’t think so. Nobody feared the senju, but practically everybody feared masses and the uchiha. Moreover, hashirama was the leader of the senju and there’s no way he’d let the senju do anything, as opposed to madara who was hated and felt the pain that his uchihs brethren were going through. If madara became hokage history would’ve been DRASTICALLY different since tobirama likely wouldn’t have been the second hokage, which means the uchiha never would’ve been pushed to the edge of the village and made head of the police force, which means means they wouldn’t have hated the hokage and leaf village so much. I’m not saying it would’ve went smoothly, but a LOT of the conflict would’ve been avoided
@@Scoundr3ll what do you mean the uchihas literally knew the senju were stronger then them so it would be easier for retaliation against the uchiha so they would go about it just like the leaf went about it when it came to uchiha and tobirama made the uchiha police because he saw it as a form of power in the village not saying he was right but he didn’t have ill intent for it the uchiha didn’t have to be a officer if they didn’t want to they had a choice but just think about it like this your tobirama just getting out of a 30+ year war with the uchiha who killed all of your other brothers besides hashirama killed your parents and your other people has the power to control tailed beast with visual prowess put you under control and reverse a something they don’t like using izanami/izanagi and grows through hate you wouldn’t be on your Ps and Qs if u were tobirama? He’s been losing people to this group of people since he was a kid and know that there powerful
I think a bit of a problem in this backstory that gets neglected and I know Rob is neglecting is how long Madara was ACTUALLY in the village. Madara didn't leave the village right away and was there for YEARS. Even before their fight, it's stated that children grew up to be adults and be of legal drinking age (in Japan it's 20, most parts of the world is between 18-21) and Hiruzen & Danzo's clans both were some of the first to join even before a Hokage was selected. Between the time Hiruzen was a kid being special trained by Hashirama & Tobirama (when the academy and village first started basically) until the fight between Hashirama vs. Madara could've been anywhere from 5-15 years depending on the timeline.
Rob is also missing the point of what Tobirama said about the Uchiha's sharingan. The deeper the love, the darker the hate and the more power they get. Madara loved his brother and his clan and from reading the Uchiha stone tablet (literally right behind Sasuke as Hashirama is telling the backstory) he foresaw that the Uchiha was get pushed to the outskirts and be ostracized.
Sure Tobirama was right in terms of running things democratically but wasn't right to start pushing the Uchiha away which was further pushed by Danzo's extreme ideology. While Tobirama actually was a very good Hokage in terms of setting many things up and balancing the light and dark things of the village, he ironically let his emotions play out with pushing the Uchiha. Hiruzen took that and by burdening Danzo did a worse job and especially by leading the village into 2 great wars. Minato honestly just didn't have a chance and Tsunade actually has been a very good Hokage considering she was put in a horrible circumstance. I know Rob roasted her for sending out genin to retrieve Sasuke but considering all the Jonin were on A or S-rank missions due to low manpower cause of Hiruzen's mistakes (and Danzo's unwillingness to help being his ties to Orochimaru) she had to do the best she could.
Also funny thing is, generally the previous Kage picks the next then the Feudal Lord just approves lol. Only when a Kage dies or incapacitated (like Tsunade being in a coma) is when it's ran democratically
Wasn't it Danzo who relocated their compound?
Some SPOILER in this answer....
Yes some time passed, but I still think it's clear that not many years passed. Over all it's somewhat unclear, but neither Hashirama nor Madara or Tobirama seem to age much in the timeframe. Plus after that some more time passed, before Madara would attack the village, which seemed to have happened long before either Hashirama or Tobirama died. It's somewhat unclear how old Hashirama and Tobirama actually got.
That in my eyes is TOO short to make the predictions Madara did.
In many ways, I think his predictions were more so based on the LIES he read on the Uchiha stone, that were put there by black Zetsu. This (when Madara was in the village)was not a situation of year long age long opression with one side eing the clear opressor and one being the opressed. They just came out of the war, that raged for generations with both sides mutually killing each other. From one day to the next these two sides were asked to not just agree to a seizefire but live peacefully as neighbors and respect each other. Of course, there is mutual distrust which needs a lot of time to resolve and MAdara simply gave up too early. At that point in time when he left the village - his little prediction stone aside - there was nothing that actually proved that they couldn't work together. They had made majo strides in just a few years.
I firmly believe that Madara's own actions altimately were more detrimental to both the village and the Uchiha than anything Tobirama ever did. The reason being that while I think Tobirama distrusted the Uchiha, it also seems obvious that he tried to make his brother's dream work. If we see anything with Tobirama, it's that while he thinks his brother is awefully naive, he also very much follows his brother's dreams and tries to make it reality. That includes working with the Uchiha. Yes maybe some of Tobirama's decisions were wrong and ultimately let to more distrust, I firmly believe that he still did it in an attempt to try and fid a peaceful solution how the two clans (and all the other new clans) could coexist. He made some miscalculations. For example he thought giving he Uchiha the power over the police would more tightly connect them too the village, make them feel as if they have an important role in it, grant them the respect of the public and also serve as a somewhat-consolidation for not naming a Uchiha-Hokage. From Tobirama's point of view this all makes sense, as if we know anything about him, Tobirama believes in rules and regulations and authority. And for a time it also seemed like the Uchiha were legitimately proud of that position. However in reality, building the police force just further isolated the Uchiha from the rest of the village, because ultmately, people don't like police.
I firmly believe that this is something you can see with mos of Tobirama's actions. Where - yes - he still had lingering distrust of the Uchiha both from the war and from the unstable nature of their sharingans - but ultmately he tried to make it work, however, often didn't consider how certain moves he made would be viewed in the public. This makes sens, because Tobirama might be smart, the creator of many jutsus, the likely best hokage when it comes to the beaurocratic and structural stuff, as well as being powerful - but he doesn't seem to be good wih people. He's not particularly charismatic.
On the other hand, Madara gave up on the dream very early on. Even five to ten years is still a short time, considering the magnitude of they wanted to achieve. They wanted to make two (or even multiple) clans who hated and killed each other for generations live peacefully as neighbors. That's not something you can try for five years and then give up, it's a live long project. Never mind that even while still being in the village, Madara did things that damaged the very idea of the village - or rather he and Hashirama had different ideas of the village. Madara then,I think, after being let down by his clan members (who would not follow him into exile) and leving the village I think gave up on the dream AND THE CLAN completely. We know that because he and Obito (in his names) later do things which are not just against the village but damaging to the Clan. Like Obito, who got the idea to create infinite Tusukuyomi to then live with Rin and Kakashi - thus not really caring anymore what happened to the real kakashi, as he would have both back in his genjutsu, Madara it seems, after deciding to create his Tsukuyomi didn't care anymore what happened to his clan either. I bellieve the actions he then took to achieve the dream were far more damaging to the Uchiha over all, than Tobirama's acions.
@@notTheUsualG True and if we take Hashirama's statement as literal (being kids grew up to the age of tasting alcohol which he says it before Hashirama & Madara are in front of the tablet) then we could even assume that Hiruzen, Danzo, Kagami Uchiha and the elders were late teens to early 20s. By timeline narrative, this is highly possible cause it's estimated Hiruzen became Hokage in his mid 20s (like 24-27) even though in the flashback they all looks like they're 17 or 18
@@Ari33sa you are speaking fax u can’t get Peace that easy and if madara had even stayed and had his presence nothing would had happend with the uchia clan. And him going to fight harishama ruined tobirama trust too of the rest of his clan. Madara had also got Obito to do 9 tails attack. Which caused even more.. madara should’ve just talked and let out his feelings to tobirama. But at the same time madara should’ve got the trust that he deserves. It’s tobirama and madara faults. A war is started because of that and many uchia are dead. Naruto has a bad life because of that same with sasuke itachi kakashi and pain. Just because of pride ego
@@notTheUsualG Not even gonna lie, I always wondered who she was and true in the flashback both anime & manga when we see the kids at academy we see Hiruzen, Danzo, Kagami and the elders there (I think Danzo and Hiruzen about to spar). It would make sense that would be her considering she died at age 55 when Obito killed her. Hiruzen during the attack would've been 56 since in part 1 Naruto's age at the beginning is 12. Also didn't know she was a jonin. The more you know lol
The 2nd hokage said that he approached anybody who posed a threat to leaf with extreme caution, regardless of clan.
We all know he was telling that to himself, so he could sleep at night, he had prejudice against Uchiha.
@@Mambo-Italianoyeah while he had an uchiha as one of his subordinates. He even mentioned him by name. If he really had prejudice against the uchiha he wouldn’t give such high praise to kagami
@@sikox209"I have a black friend I can't be racist"
@@honsai7409 remind me again who was the one that told hashirama and Kawarama that if they were to ever find peace among the senju and the uchiha that they would need to put aside all their grievances and learn to forgive eachother to ensure a long lasting peace among both the clans? Shit idk but if you ask me that don’t sound like a racist. He clearly stated that he didn’t hate the uchiha, he did however approach the clan with cautiousness because madara left a lasting impression on him. He said what he said to sasuke because he was with orochimaru, the very same guy who had previously used him to attack hiruzen. Not to mention the fact that sasuke gave them an ultimatum that was entirely dependent on whether or not the 1st hokages answer was satisfactory to him. No shit he was gonna respond in the manner that he did. All the dialogue we got from the flashbacks completely went over your head if all you got from it was “tobirama is a racist to the uchiha”
Madera DID step forward in attempt to side with the Senju but Izuna stopped him. Rob was right. How did everyone else not catch that?? Very important part of the future of the Leaf Village.
You guys should react to all the naruto openings when you finish the series! Like so they can see this
The funny thing is it's like pretty much rewatching the show but in short music clip form
i hate it when i see these "like so they can see" comments.
@@mdsdn lmao likes will get it to the top of the list
Yesss
I think what Rob is trying to say is that Madara makes emotional decisions and constantly switches up, which is the exact point Tobirama made as to why you shouldn't trust them.
But it was literally because of Tobirama and his ideologies that madara and the uchiha did the things they did.
Fr people are just hating on rob or are sucking madara
@@JBurnz001 Well yeah. "Those guys are assholes so let's treat them like shit". Then when they start retaliating you can say "See, I told you they were bad". You can't subjugate people and act surprised when they get tired of it. Tobirama was wrong for that. He was right about the Madara being an emotional decision maker though.
@@dennis2667 Part of it is Rob speaking in passionate and unfinished sentences.
@@JBurnz001 how is it because of tobirama ? Grow up tobirama was right .. no One would want madara as the first hokage over hashirama ... madara got but hurt over that and said “I’m going to destroy the village “
Madara would bitchslap Rob for disrespecting and calling Hashirama "OG yamato".
Yamato would also lol
lmao 🤣🤣 factss
With his Susanoo
Madara a bitch fr rob is right. im glad madara got bitchslapped by zetsu at the end. dude was hypocrite
@@lycan2494 so then what would you think about obito? Is he a bitch also?
honestly robs argument was pretty spot on, i wasnt feeling him at first but as he developed it i got it and he was right about the whole madara thing, if madara had stayed, the second hokage wouldnt have been able to do half the stuff he got away with, yeah madara wouldve had to work harder for people to accept him but naruto is a perfect example. hated as the jinchuriki to being beloved as the hero of the village, some people have to work harder than others to get what they want but is it not worth it when you succeed?
The second hokage literally ANNOINTED the 3rd to be hokage , he was never a democratic leader he just manipulated the idea of democracy
the village basically did too tho. Danzo didnt eve speak up lol
3rd Hokage was already the village's favorite. He was the strongest and had the most potential of all the kids at the time. That's the reason Tobirama had him on his squad along with his runner ups. Hokage are voted by the Jonin Council and the Previous Hokage has a huge say in that. Its very probable that Jonin council already accepted Hiruzen as next Hokage incase something happens to the 2nd. 2nd was the smartest hokage. He'd have a contingency like that. Besides, 3rd also personally recommended 4th as hokage. If not for 3rd Naruto's dad would never be hokage. Remember that. Stop hating on Tobirama. Village would be dead in shinobi WW1 if not for him.
He was literally about to die the scenario is completely we with you Rob
@@dhirajmalapati369 yup and that's the whole point of this series. Everyone is seeking peace and understand in their own way but are ultimately failing in finding the correct answer.
Getsuga Allen What does him about to die have to do with what Rob was saying? Just because Tobirama is about to die it doesn’t mean democracy dies with him. I would have understood if he was making Sarutobi hokage temporarily or something at least. It seems like Tobirama was just hiding behind democracy/majority vote in order to ensure Madara didn’t get the position and when the time came for a hokage to be chosen to take his spot he then decided to do what his brother wanted to do all along and anointed Sarutobi. Tobirama is grimy and definitely the worst hokage to ever live.
The hokage definitely got into a huddle before setting off.
"Alright, so if I stand there and you stand there, we'll land on each of our heads on the cliff right?"
"I don't understand, why do we need to--"
"Because it'll look cool!"
The funny thing is when you realize it was most likely the god of Shinobi hashirama who would've came up with that
Rob is the most annoying creature I have ever seen......I was waiting when rob gonna give birth to yamato's child...now iam waiting for tobirama's too
damn bro you didn't have to call him a "creature" 💀
FRFR. They gon need to announce when he in these videos
Dang bro if you don’t like Rob that much then just don’t watch his content.
@@Lost.in.Missouri FYI... rob is not reacting alone
@@xmaster6214 yeah but he’s one of the founders of the channel and he plays a vital role because most fans love to hate him and that helps the channel get views.
Rob dissecting of Madara is actually legit Madara is my favorite character but he only sees strength as physical capabilities not a mentality and he wasn't hokage he should have opted for another uchiha to be hokage and try to prove Tobirama wrong about the uchiha instead he just said I give up on enduring for the village
Exactly! I don’t know why people are hating on him because his take is valid.
Facts people are just hating on rob at this point and are wanking madara
Madara saw the Leaf Village as a temporary establishment of peace and order. It wouldn’t last in the long run. (And he was right)
So he opted for the Infinite Tsukuyomi, which would bring eternal peace, that would last forever.
Madara gave up on the Leaf Village, as he was looking beyond that. He was looking at something more grand and more absolute.
He literally states this to Hashirama.
He does have a point but he sees it too black and white and doesn’t acknowledge the stipulations of the uchihas discrimination. No one can deny that tobirama wanted democracy solely because it was advantageous to the uchiha’s weakening. You could’ve very easily appointed two leaders as we see sarutobis consist of 4. Shit assign a council comprised of the leaders of each clan. Rob is correct about aspects but his complete disregard for information outside of HIS points is astounding. Choosing a democracy at that moment in time was a poor decision, they could have very easily decided that both the creators should have time leading and THEN went to a democracy. Poor handling by leaf village leaders yet again. Only one that didn’t fuck up at this period in time was Minato.
Yeah his point is valid but... it's all based on misinformation/misunderstandings and a "black and white" mindset
Rob is the only one with the realest ideology. His observation skills are pretty good. His point is actually right on this topic.
Rob is like a lowkey Shikamaru and Baelish. Very good analytical skill but people love to Hate Lord Baelish on GOT
Also rob: I have seen yamato do that
@@haiider.gondal rob is smart sometimes but sometimes he is really dumb
I'm with Rob on the 2nd Hokage, he didnt blatantly hate the Uchiha, he was just the only one at the time who was willing to speak facts to the 1st, while Hashirama was just caught up in his emotions wanting to support his friend Madara.
Rob legit says the dumbest things almost every reaction. Yea Madara couldn't protect his brother, it's war! Hashirama also lost his brother, Naruto couldn't save Neji because he sacrificed himself, and you will see what actually happened with Kakashi and Rin! Neither Madara or Kakashi is a bitch, I can't believe I actually have to write this.
Y’all just mad he don’t like Madara, but he was spitting fax I can’t lie
@@finessekid3661 he wasnt...
He said nothing wrong .
I agree bro
Rob is not thenking straight
Rob Yamato is dust in front of Hashirama. Get it🤦♂️
You mean Tensou
Y’all niggas need to stfu Yamato’s is definitely not no dust do not disrespect Yamato’s like a push over like he didn’t aid naruto in training naruto literally could not have got half as strong as he did without Yamato
@@Dbrosgamong ok I agree, but he is not as strong or even close to Hashirama
@@shravan4409 nobody said that
hashirama is just og yamato
Rob really likes to deny the cool aspects of coolest characters of different animes 😂😂😂😂😂
Rob mad disrespectful
He just wants attention
If he really hates vegeta then UK he doesn't like cool characters
42:03 Rob, I get what you're saying, that distrust could be implied by refusing to go but! that same distrust could be misunderstood for another scenario like a case of refusal for selfish gain or for outright rebellion. You dont have to trust someone to go somewhere, You could still say, "Hey I trust you but ama stay behind because I want to benefit myself only". Simply not trusting someone isnt the main reason for people refusing to follow that very person (UNLESS) the very words, "Im not going because I do not trust you" come out of their mouths. Then thats a fact that can't be denied.
I think the reason Naruto works so well across cultures is the fact that it is reflective of today's world. We can all relate to the incidents happening at Konoha (on some level). Always sparks a good discussion.
Yups masashi kishimoto bring a bit political so it's interesting
This dude Rob called Hashirama “Horoshimaru” 😂😂😂
he slowly lost his ability to pronounce it right lmao
Better than "OG YaMaTO" 😭
I tried so hard to understand who’s name was he saying.😭
Rob should like Orochimaru instead of Yamato because if it wasn't for Orochimaru, Yamato couldn't even use wood style 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Every time rob compares yamato to Hashirama I lose a brain cell🤦🏻♂️
Bruh he's literally trolling. If u guys don't see that then your just dumb
I just laugh, he is funny as hell
@@TH3FU113ZT even though he be trolling saying hashirama is Yamato’s og is not that far off . It’s actually technically true
@@TH3FU113ZT wait your defense of him is he's one of the most pathetic and sad kinds of human being?
@@TH3FU113ZT trolls can be dumb idiots asking for attention and from what I've seen the past two years watching this channel Rob is definitely not a troll lmao
I wish I could be there for your discussions
Rob a quick reminder:
- Tobirama basically inherited the Hokage seat
- The 3rd Hokage was hand picked by Tobirama during a battle (no vote)
- Minato was selected by the 3rd after resigning to counter Orochimaru & the information was shared on a notice board (no vote)
- Jiraya was almost forced by the high council to be hokage after the 3rd died (no vote)
- Tsunade was picked by Jiraya after turning it down (no vote)
- Kakashi was almost forced to be hokage (no vote)
Also all these decisions were made between 7 people & the final decision is made by 1...
What was that about democracy? 🤣🤣🤣
Every hokage selecion pass through a concil which the members represents the clans and the citizens. Isn't that simple, but the anime don't show this everytime. But is very explicit that must have the aproval of another "high" jonin and the fire lord. After all, the hokage must coordenate and have the trust of every clan that composs the village.
Technically tobirama build the village if you actually watch or read Naruto properly you know this.
Yeah and his the reason that the uchia clan is ostracized and why when the 3rd rolled up wit danzo they were angry
@@zaimaster2662 3rd is weak-minded
Idk but rob makes the video more interesting with his wild opinions 😂😂😂
Facts imagine all of them just sucking off the characters they need rob 😂🤝
Opinions'' more like the thoughts of a 4 year old trying to form coherent sentences
Fr
@@1BuFo For real, im suprised Rob can spell his own name, you can tell he has trouble speaking English as is xD
@@dingodyno9016 lmao exactly
Rob listen
Madara true intentions are for Peace , since the start he hated the Idea of two clans fighting till the end , him and Hashirama , Rob when Madara became the Leader he had a purpose to fight for the Uchiha but its Not his Dream , his dream is Peace , when Hashirama was gonna kill himself he remembered his dream , but Madara like pain like Obito realized that as long as there is Love there will be hate and you can never have true peace , and the proof is The Uchiha Later on were gonna betray Konoha , You need to realize that Madara was Smarter than most of them and knew there is never gonna be true peace , and this is realistic more than What Rob Saying
Rob doesn’t pay attention to madara way of thinking.
@@drakecoleman9939 madara a bitch at the end of the day he wants to force his will upon everyone
@@JayT8823 obito, nagato/ pain ,sasuke , and every great villain weanted to do so ... most likely they are bitches too
Actually you’re wrong madara didn’t do it for peace. It was to satisfy his ego by being petty because according to him the shinobi world was hashirama creation and he wanted to make a better flawless one in genjutsu. Madara was exactly like danzo, defeated losers who couldn’t overcome their rivals. He wasn’t smart all he did was corrupt innocent kid then get played by black zetsu. Because he couldn’t deal with reality,he chose to chase dreams and almost doomed humanity. How is he smart?
Rob never knows what he is talking about. Madara is a G.
@Quincy Wilder calling Madara a bitch? Hell nah he wylin.
A G doesn't get finessed as much as madara has
@Quincy Wilder exactly rob was spitting fax
@@MadaraUchiha-cb8tb no the debate at the end, don’t get me wrong, Madara is one on my favorite characters, but rob was right, you just don’t abandon your people and change your mind if something doesn’t go as planned
@@finessekid3661 Its as if these guys didn't watch the video lmao but true
Im pretty sure Madara's way of thinking wasnt like the Uchiha's in the first place thats why he chose to atleast give a truce with the Senju's a chance cause like Hashirama, he also wanted peace..but i understand Rob, this is why they need him on the reactions 💯
Rob is actually speaking facts. I understand both sides, their reasons and their argument but if we don't involve our feelings about the character and how badass he is and instead are realistic about the whole situation then Rob is speaking FACTS NO CAP
Great debate! I think Rob is actually right about everything leading up to the point of chosing a leader BUT one thing he is missing is that it's hard to make a decision when you know you want peace but you don't want your brothers and family die for no reason. That's why Madara went back and forth on his decision. Also Tobirama did NOT kill the uchiha but it created the catalyst for the path that lead to that. At the end of the day, it was Danzo and Lord 3rds fault the Uchiha died.
I really don’t like the og Yamato name is a discrase
its pissing me off
Your spelling is a DISGRACE lol
Yes
First of all u need to find out how to spell🤡 and rob can say wtf he wants cause the first hokage is Yamato’s og
hashirama is just og yamato deal with it
*Tobirama:* "From now on things will be democratic."
*Also Tobirama:* "Hiruzen from tomorrow you will be the Hokoge."
-Tobirama choosing Hiruzen to be the 3rd Hokage on HIS own.
I mean they were in the middle of a war at that point so it makes sense that they'd have to be more direct at that moment. In peace time the village elects the Hokage as we've repeatedly seen.
The former is Tobirama cautioning Hashirama from unilaterally choosing a leader that no one, not even the Uchiha, will support in an untested concept that is the leaf village. The latter is naming a new leader in a wartime emergency because the current leader is about to die in 10-15 minutes. Presumably, like Tsunade and Danzo, for Sarutobi's position to become permanent, he would have needed the consent of the Jonin and the Fedual Lord. Just like a democracy.
Lmao two completely different cases, but sure
@@kaizukokage3yearsago70 when did that election happend dude in ur dreams...😑
And thats my trouble with tobirama
I’m with Rob. Those other dudes just don’t get it. Rob constantly debunked their arguments and made them agree with him.
I may disagree with Rob most of times but one thing I agree with him is his views on Tobirama. Lord Second is straight to the point, logical and all his beliefs and ideology has valid reasons.
So it's okay to ostracize a whole village because of what one person did? You know I hear people say we suck off Madara even though all he ever did was see the world for what it is but you tobirama fanboys and fangirls make me sick. There is nothing this man ever did that was for the betterment of the shinobi world. In fact, even Orochimaru called him out on being responsible for most of what happened. I mean Hashirama was on board with Madara being the leader of the village until that two faced POS went behind his back and turned his own clan against him.
Hearing Rob call Hashirama "OG Yamato" makes my skin crawl. Yamato is great, but nowhere near the level of the 1st Hokage.
“Great” then gets captured by and used by Kabuto
@@aanthony6168 Kabuto is quite powerful though. It's just bad luck that his only main fight in that state was against Itachi and Sasuke, and he still gave them some trouble.
Nah Yamato is ass ever since he got owned by hebi sasuke I couldn’t take him seriously
Yamato was protecting Bee's assistant and let himself get captured. Also spoilers but Yamato's power bodued the entire Shinobi alliance. Yamato is the body summoned the Shinzu Senju and was destroying everyone. Even an edo Hiruzen was finidng it difficult to fight him. Yamato is very underrated. He never went all out against Sasuke because he wanted to capture Sasuke. When he was about to go all out, Orochimaru intervened and sasuke retreated.
Rob is remembering correctly and y’all three are wrong. Madara did take a step towards hashirama, but Izuma stoped him, told him not to.
Madara fanboys mad asl
Right
Exactly, he was ABOUT to take a step towards Hashirama, but he didn't. Rob literally said he was walking towards it my guy so they weren't really wrong but not right either
Rob was stating facts. Madara wavered too much. If he was really all about one goal and one objective, he wouldn't have questioned his ideologies. Also Danzo was the main culprit in the Uchiha massacre. Sure Tobirama didn't trust some Uchiha but Uchiha are predisposed to grow stronger when more hatred enters their heart. Danzo was just a racist and Hiruzen failed in putting Danzo in his place so Danzo had too much power. Hiruzen was the worst Hokage.
@@spinal1280 He believed in the Infinite Tsukuyomi and he literally stood by it for a lifetime. He never wavered about that and he stood by it for far far far longer than Hashirama ever did with Konoha. Not a single human character stood by an ideology more than Madara did with the Infinite Tsukuyomi and when he dies he literally claims that his dream was crushed, he still thought that the Infinite Tsukuyomi as he perceived it was the ideal way of living. It's funny to say Madara wavers too much when no human character stood by an idea longer than he did. Simple as that.
369 episodes in Rob has still not realized that Yamato's wood style is no where close to Hashirama's. Even though characters who knew Hashirama and Yamato have said more than once that Yamato's wood style does not compare to Hashirama's.
Rob is actually right for the most part.
This is why I’m such a big fan of you guys. At 53:48 look at their faces after going rounds of heated discussions 😂
It’s a real squad 💯
Whether you agree with rob or not you gotta admit, that was hella entertaining 💀 i watched the whole discussion and didnt get bored once 😭
today i feel like rob actually had sum good points 😅😅
He’s always entertaining 😂
@@ykdrew. aside from og yamato & Madara being a bitch, I agree
@@slumphokage5206 even uchiha but Itachi a bitch tbh
@@DMCEagles05 bro....?
Wow, a Naruto reaction with Drake, Lil Wayne, Meek Mill, and T.I. I never thought this would happen. Thanks so much guys I appreciate it
LMAO
💀💀💀💀
Ok I hate to say this but Rob is right
How can Pat AGREE with anything Danzo did to the village but disagree with the Second Hokaged, Dude try to kill the 3rd Hokage and Pat try to defend him.
The Uchiha final down fall was DANZO trickery and the 3rd Hokage being too soft
If 3rd Hokage kill Danzo things would have been different
And what cause the Uchiha being kick out the Village in the 1st place???
It was obIto who MADARA save and Convinces him into his plan
Rob is also right about the leader thing, if I trust my leader and he said something isn’t right and tht we should leave I’m following him
Madara attacking the Village which has UCHIHA and SENJU at the time so I don’t see why he wasn’t attacking his ppl then.
patt thinking
Danzou: he just wanted to protect the village.
Tobirama: he was wrong.
Lol Pat is A Danzo Fanboy
Pat just talking just to talk like stop lmao .
Nah I’m with Yellow shirt man, Tobirama is on point. The strength of the Sharigan comes from hatred. So for the Uchiha to be more effective in battle they need to keep up there cycle of hatred. Tobirama sees this being a no win situation in the future.
Idk why people are getting triggered by rob when honestly he is right about madaras wavering will
Listening to rob trying to explain himself is like listening to a 1st grader read a book LOL
He already has trouble speaking English ahaha
I've never seen someone love a character while simultaneously disrespect him, Robby really a different breed, you gotta love em lmao.
These fools trying to find someone to blame for the ongoing war .......... but they don't still don't know the real villain😂
The ramen guy... I guess
Facts🤣
@@Moe_Saad dnt spoil delete
TenTenTails
@@evansyhevu9021 I reported that other dude lol 😂
Yo, tbh yall discussion is why this channel deserves a million subs!
Let's be real... rob only calls Hashirama " OG YaMaToOoOooO" because he can't pronounce 'Ha-she-ra-ma'
Madara literally said he found a new dream before leaving🤦🏾♂️ this guy needs to pay attention. Madara literally didn’t care about the world itself after leaving because he knew he was gonna create his dream world. Rob needs to watch the series by himself or something.
@Mad4Life madara actually didn’t go back to kill his people... did you watch or read the series. He went back to the village to fight hashirama. He just pose a threat to the village because he knew hashirama would do anything to keep the village safe. He literally said it before he left the village.
@@drakecoleman9939 they literally say he attacked the village... Then got in a fight with hashirama who protected it... He literally don't care about the whole clan getting killed by obito
@@getsugaallen6612 yeh he attacked he village but he didn’t destroy it. He went to fight hashirama that’s all and why should he care about the clan getting wiped out when he predicted it all along?
@Mad4Life ...
@@drakecoleman9939 yea you right, madara wanted the senju chakra (hashirama dna), it didn't matter how he did tbh. His plan was infinite tsukiyomi not destroying the village
THEY SAID THEY ARENT WILLING TO LEAVE NOT THAT THEY DONT TRUST MADARA. TRUST WASNT INVOLVED
EXACTLY
They didn't trust his judgement is exactly what you're saying
It’s trust bruh stop reaching
My guy if u dont trust somebody ur not gonna follow them. When ur people dont follow u it means they ve lost trust in u or ur vision. Its really that simple
@@jasonbarnes6898 theres multiple reasons that people didnt want to go some probably liked it there others fucked with hashirama but to say its trust is dumb they have no reason not to trust him that makes no sense
Rob never lets Pat finish because he knows if he lets him go on he'll look stupid. Pat needs to stand up for himself and demand to be let finish
Lmao “stand up for himself”
whatt??
@Cloud Theory and then once he was done when Pat tried to get any point across he was REPEATEDLY cut off... literally, watch the video lmao
@@rujandoru2033 not pat got quiet when he mentionned Danzo
@@getsugaallen6612 HAHAHAAAA
We cant blame the hokage for “being a terrible hokage” , yes bad decisions were made by different hokage but every hokage is just trying to do what’s best for the village or what situation is at hand.. and everyone thinks different and may have different philosophies with different perspectives and at the end of the day , we may can see a possible outcome of the future but there are infinite possibilities of the future and all the hokage can do is made a decision to the best of there abilities. so we cant ever really blame any hokage for their decisions unless they deliberately were trying to cause damage or their intentions weren’t pure in thinking of everyone within the village, unlike tobirama and danzo who pushed the uchiha to the edge but the again they did what they thought was best for the village
Being honest, Rob is spitting facts at the end of this reaction
jerry just sitting there in the middle of the debate like: 😐😑🥱
Tobirama be like: Make Konoha great again😂
😂😂👌👌
@@bateenuchiha8566 😂
15:50 is such an emotional scene it always makes me tear up for itachi and yet you guys talk during it rip
well to be fair theyve already all seen the scene before.
they've seen it before, its just a flashback.
It’s a flashback 😂
patt thinking
Danzou: he just wanted to protect the village.
Tobirama: he was wrong.
Tobirama >danzo
The funny part is Danzo is quite literally Tobirama’s ideology taken to its extreme. Most didn’t know the 2nd DID trust some Uchiha and really understood the possible good that Uchiha could be. They misunderstood the 2nd’s stance on the Uchiha and thought he didn’t trust them at all with good reason, leading to extreme measures.
Exactly he a hypocrite
Pat understands that Danzo is wrong. He is a villain lol. I think he knows he is wrong
@@alexandraalvarez7925 no he thinks he's right in his own ways to protect the village wich he isn't he caused more harm to it, tobirama caused no harm
Yo, i actually understand what Rob was gettin at. He kinna right in a way
I can’t believe...that I’d see the day where Rob makes a valid point😂
I'm just confused about how someone can like Yamato so much as to call the GOD of shinobi og Yamato & call Madara a bitch🤔
He was calling madara a bitch because he was wishy washy with his ideology. Put context behind it .
And the first hokage is Yamato’s OG
@@shaunclutch9062 Rob is wishy washy willpower gang is a joke says hashirama is in it but won't even put respect on his name still stuck on a foot soldier level dude in Yamato calling him a god Rob can't say he stands by his ideals he was trying to be a glasses wearing intellectual but he ain't smart enough so he goes back to being a fucking cornball to annoy fans of naruto
@@tyruswillier7358 will power gang Solid especially cause gaara in it and killer bee .
@@shaunclutch9062 nah I don't mean the characters he claims are bad I mean his concept of willpower gang is bad he will shit on a character for dumb reasons then hype up Yamato for no reason fuck Rob
If you really trying to understand rob and not mocking him , he kind spitting facts
He did and once he brought up Danzo, Pat got really quiet LOL
"Hiroshimaru"
💀
😂😂😂
nagasakimaru
When pat said rt tv wasn’t created by two people and rob said it was 😭😭 felt so bad
The second hokage is a hypocrite...he said democracy but in his final mission, appointed hiruzen without a vote...double standards galore
They were in a middle of a war with another villages and the probable death of the Hokage. Do you expected elections and reunions with the leader of each clan in that situation?
Madara did switch up a lot 🤷🏽♂️ he brought the uchiha with him then told them to dip as soon as he saw that it wasn’t on his favor. Then he says he wants to protect the uchiha but came back to destroy the village as a whole.
Rob only be seeing things in black and white, its honestly frustrating
Rob actually won this argument . To be real. Ppl just hate on rob so y’all not even gone give him this one lmfaoo
@neku if madara stayed in the village and endured the hardship like a true leader their position would have been better. MLK endured the hardships and now it’s better for African Americans in the us. Madara could have been the same and maybe the 3rd or 4th hokage could have been an uchia. Madara flaked and it hurt his people the most
No I kinda agree with what he’s saying but he’s whole character or personality idk is corny and definitely takes away from what he says a lot. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong It’s just what happened
I'm with rob on this one tbh. Wells and pat kept flip flopping and nitpicking words. I for one think that madara leaving and then coming back to attack the village, hurt the uchihas rep.
@neku protect?? He literally attacked them and was cool with obito helping to kill them
I’m growing to start siding with Rob more and more as the episodes go on. I like how he sees perspectives other than the ones that kishimoto intended us to see as a viewer following our protagonists💯💯💯
Do niggas pay attention? The uchiha weren’t relocated to a remote area of the village under surveillance until after the nine tails attack which was orchestrated by madara...
bruh Rob saying madara is soft is like saying vegeta's hairline is on point LMFAO
Rob always comes with these dumb ass theories when he didn't even pay attention to half the episode because he was busy trash talking a character weather it be Kakashi, Madara etc...
Exactly what I’m saying.
bruh i swear y’all slow ash . He said nothing wrong LMAO he’s actually the only one who understands what’s going on .
This theory wasn’t dumb, if you actually pay attention to what rob is saying, he is speakin fax
Hashirama wanted Madara to stay and become hokage, but tobirama wanted to create a democracy. Madara heard about this and just left his ppl and the village instead of thigh in it out for his ppl, and that was the wrong move. Rob is correct
@@finessekid3661 some things he said didn’t make sense actually like the reason madara leaving the village and coming back to fight. If he paid attention he would know that madara came back to execute his plan not kill everyone. Madara had to pose a threat to the village to make hashirama fight him because even before he left he brought up what would he sacrifice for the village. Madara left because he found a new dream. He wouldn’t have made a good hokage which he did actually admit. Cause he don’t like people behind him.
Rob bodied the three of them here .. they clearly
misunderstood the 2nd hokage .. it was madara obito danzo and hiruzen who's resposible for the demise of the uchiha .. the 2nd hokage clearly placed them in the middle of the village as police but when obito attacked with the nine tails they placed them to the secluded part of the village due to suspicions .. so it's true that madara was never a great leader and the one who destroyed and killed his clan
They should pin this
it all started with the 2nd hokage bro
Segregation is not a solution... Uchiha weren’t even allowed to help during the invasion which they were blamed for lol. Police force was a step in the right direction I suppose but ultimately meant nothing in the grand scheme
@@himu6948 it started with madara .. even though if he became hokage it would still be the same outcome .. madara was as confused as sasuke .. he was even manipulated by zetsu .. and tobirama was right .. madara never really proved himself yet to the people .. so even if it would take years he should have worked for it but he chose not to .. tobirama had nothing to do with how madara thinks .. he keeps on changing his mind/goal that's why even his people abandon him ..
@@CasualTee madara was responsible for the attack of nine tails that's the reason why they moved the uchiha .. tobirama placed them in the middle .. the nine tails attack happened when tobirama was already long dead lol .. it was danzo and the 3rd who loved them not tobirama .
I agree with Rob. Tobirama is the Goat
Rob’s points are actually very astute . Hashirama’s viewpoint on Madara was not the village’s viewpoint . You can’t just put that on them as much as he is your best friend. That was were Hashirama was naive . Especially when the uchiha clan themselves almost rated Madara their own clansmen below Hashirama.
Rob actually made a good point about Madara. He did keep switching sides hence the clan not following him. He always impresses at random times, but now he gone try to use this as fuel to be a hater 🙄 only downfall when he actual makes sense
I like how everyone getting angry at Rob and don't even realize that he's trolling
But he was right this time
Because at this point, it's distracting. The only time in the past few months that I've enjoyed a reaction to this series from them is when he dropped the act for the Kakashi flashback and when dude tells him Yamato is dead. Only reason I'm sticking around is because:
1. I make it a point to finish anything that I start.
2. Part of me wants to see the rest of the guys stop mid reaction, look at each other, tie him up in a chair, put a sock in his mouth, then continue like nothing happened.
@@dennis2667 agree
Yet he wasn’t wrong
@@dennis2667 I agree
I feel like Rob is just putting on a persona to piss people off
Thats Is literally what he does he trolls too piss people off
he is, there's no way someone can be this dumb
That's definitely true. To me he comes off as FAKE. That's switch up a couple of vids before was disturbing. I skip whenever this guy talks bc it's nonsense and don't feel it genuine.
@@vagabondgamur1279 lol missing out then Rob is the reason why these reactions are interesting and in this debate he was completely right.
Never thought the day would come but I actually agree with Rob on Tobirama. It’s true the 2nd didn’t trust the Uchiha but he didn’t just out of nowhere did everything to ostracized them. Hashirama wanted to make Madara the Hokage while Tobirama said that it should be the villagers’ choice and the feudal lord’s decision on who is to become Hokage which was Hashirama. Madara took it as the Senju wanting to take control and he tried to rally the Uchihas which led the Uchiha to turn their back on Madara and Madara became the village’s first traitor. Tobirama created the Uchiha Police Force to establish trust between the Uchiha and the village. And yes, it backfired because the Police Force was stationed near the edge of the village which led them to believe that they had no political power and made them feel isolated but they were compliant. They were truly isolated when the nine tails attacked. Danzo and the elders suspected the Uchiha was behind the attack so they rounded all of the Uchiha and created the Uchiha compound in a remote spot in Konoha which led to more tension and finally the coup d'etat. So Tobirama sowed the seeds but he never truly wanted the Uchiha to rebel, it was Danzo and the elders that pushed them so far. Tobirama was the realist amd Hashirama was the idealist.
yes i agree they making it seem like that was all apart of his plan he was a balance of danzo and the hiruzen which made him a great hokage
Best comment
So we can all agree that Yamato was taken out of the series because of plot convenience as otherwise he would solve the entire war situation in a single episode.
Both sides made good points. If Madara had stayed with the village there is the possibility that the village would have eventually come to respect the uchiha. If Madara had been made the first hokage the village would see that the person they looked up to trusted an uchiha and gave them a chance. Both sides could have led to the same product of the uchiha being respected instead of feared.
100% agree with Robb at the start of the discussion so far
edit I was with Robb 100% all the way through, we don't know what would've happened but if Madara had stayed too either be the right hand man then the village would've shown more love too the Uchha, he might've even been the second hokage and then things would've played out differently. But we'll never know
People who take Rob's trolling seriously are more hilarious than Rob himself
No cap he has people writing essays in the comments😂😂
He’s not joking . He said nothing wrong
If u want to call untreated mental illness trolling then i guess so...What is he gaining from being antagonistic for no reason ? It’s not adding shit, all he’s doing is ruining good and valid ass reactions from everyone else.
@@christopherj501 what you are doing is exactly what rob wants😂 he living rent free in your head
God of Gods Dennis the only time he’s thought about is when I’m watching the videos and he’s there cause that’s obviously unavoidable. After the shit over, he’s not thought about broski💀
rob probably likes tobirama cuz he wears the same headband as yamato
Rob was right. You can’t just force ideals on someone (which is funny cause that’s exactly what Madara, his protege Obito and eventually Sasuke did). That has to be worked through together over time. Hashirama vouched for Madara but they had a unique relationship as they knew each other before they even knew the other was Uchiha or Senju. Between the Uchiha and Senju was still bitter history and bloodshed and hatred. Forcing Madara into the Hokage position would’ve made shit worse. They should’ve had equal representation across leadership between all the clans that way everyone was represented and everyone’s interests and qualms were addressed. Something Madara as the second strongest shinobi, a fellow Leaf Village FOUNDER and leader of the Uchiha had the power to do. The problem was Madara just bounced and didn’t really wanna put in the work to make that a reality once he saw it would be tough. His excuse was it was always for the clan, but it was how he personally felt as you can see by how them niggas just stopped following him and let him do stuff on his own. You can’t lead if you thinking individually and not in the best interest of the collective. It’s his fault what ended up happening to the Uchiha happened. And how was attacking the Leaf afterwards better? Who’s best interest did that serve? The Uchiha? Was he gonna kill everyone in the Leaf except Uchiha or was they catching smoke too? Would they have followed him after that? He was emotional and wishy washy. One minute he wanted peace the next he wanted smoke legitimately while Hashirama ALWAYS came to him with the same energy but he knew they had to work together on it that’s why he always extended the olive branch but didn’t force him (he kinda had the power to do so). The moment Madara was alone and thought for himself (claiming he was doing it for the clan, eventually the world) what happened? Nigga came up with one of the most meticulous and well thought out plans ever and executed! Pretty much everything went right lmao. Know why? Cause the nigga was committed, so committed that he came back from the dead to make the shit happen 😂😂😂 he just ain’t trust nobody else like that. Just himself 🤷🏾♂️ I think if he had a brother still alive to help it would’ve been better cause that would’ve been maybe one person he could really trust
I like that they have a very serious discussion about this, and that's the part I'm waiting for from watching them, unlike other reactions that immediately close without discussion like them.
Keep going Rob and everyone, I really like this, there are differences of opinion and very exciting discussions