Outstanding job Robert. You have a gift as an educator and your knowledge of the navigation rules is extensive! I may have missed it because I am in the office multi-tasking, but I like to emphasize something that I didn't hear you emphasize. In Crossing, Head-On and Overtaking situations, we don't often discuss WHEN the give way vessel should take action and the manner in which they should take it. They should "take EARLY and SUBSTANTIAL action to keep WELL CLEAR." Rule 16. Boaters, as soon as practicable after realizing that you are the give way vessel, you should take obvious action. We have all been out there when the give way vessel continued to hold course and speed until the point we are wondering if they were going to give way. We may have even used sailor language about them. By taking our action early and making it obvious, we can put the stand on vessel operator at ease. It's hard to squeeze it in on short podcasts, but something to consider sharing, time permitting.
Great point! Rule 16 is important. I covered that topic, although briefly, at about 28:25. I think that is a really important idea - make course and speed changes as BIG changes, so the other vessel can easily figure out exactly what you are doing. Plus - make those course/speed changes earlier rather than later. That gives everyone more time to figure out what is going on and avoid a dangerous situation
Very informative video. Can never have too many videos that relate to boat safety posted. Thank you for posting. Q: If Canadians are going to do The Loop, must/can they take the American boating safety courses? Is there a Canadian equivalent that will suffice to boat in US waters?
In the US, boater safety education requirements are set by each state. Each of the states participates in an oganizaton called NASBLA - National Assocaition of State Boating Law Administrators. NASBLA is a standards setting body, but is not responsible for enforcing law and does not make law. All the US states I can think of, accept any NASBLA compliant boater safety course for anyone temporarily in their state's waters. There is a MOU memorandum of understanding between Transport Canada and the US organization NASBLA. That MOU says that NASBLA and Transport Canada each recognize the other's boater safety courses. Keep in mind this says that *NASBLA* recognizes Canadian Boater Safety courses, not that the states will recognize. Also - will a local marine police officer, or fish and game warden have any idea of whether a Canadian boater safety card meets the local requirements? The easy/peace of mind answer - take a US boater safety course online before coming to the States. Folks from Canada can certainly take a US course. Might not be required, but a little reresher can't hurt. One place you can do the online class is: www.boat-ed.com/
Thank you for all the information. We are looking into doing the loop in a couple of years when I retire. Do I need to have a captain’s license to do this as it goes thru Canada?. Passports needed?. It’s amazing!
Captain's license is not needed, but a NASBLA-approved (NASBLA.org) course is required in some states. Proof of Citizenship is required to enter Canada. Passport is an easy way to do this and per the CBSA website, is recommended. But I believe there are certain other forms of ID they will accept such as drivers licenses from certain states.
You had me confused there with the sound signal, you expert failed to point out the difference between international collisions regs, sound signals and America specific inland rule sound signals. While the result is the same 1 blast is I’m turning to stb, 2 blasts I’m turning to port (3 blast engines are astern). The result is port to port or stb to stb but in the international rules it indicates you intended maneuver not you actual maneuver. An important difference as 2 large slow moving vessel may take a long time to actually achieve the maneuver. Are there parts of loop where international rules apply ? Like approaching NY harbor ? What applies on great lakes? I guess I need to listen to your in-depth series. Great podcasts you are doing Cheer Warren
This is a great question. You are correct, I discussed only the Inland Rules. And, discussed from an US perspective. There is only so much you can do in a short podcast. You are correct the International and Inland rules are phrased differently. Intl - One whistle means "I am altering course to Starboard" vs. Inland "I intend to leave you on my port side." And, the Inland Rules require an answering sound signal to confirm agreement. I have moved my boat about 1500 miles down the Western Rivers, and in the Gulf ICW. I have never heard an actual sound signal, not even once and.not even in the distance. 100% of meeting and passing arrangements have been made by radio. That is 100% of meeting and passing arrangements between me and a barge captain, and 100% between barges or other commercial vessels. Those conversations sound like the tow boat captain saying something to me like "See you on the One" Or "Come down my Starboard side" Or "On the one, port to port" I repeat it back, complying with the spirit of the Inland rule that requires an answering sound signal. Lets fill in a few of the gaps. Again, focusing on US rules. The key question is WHERE do the inland rules apply? Despite the name, the inland rules apply in some coastal waters, in specific places. The actual dividing line is called the “Line of Demarcation.” With respect to the Great Lakes the rules are clear - the US inland rules apply to US vessels when on the Great Lakes (even in Canadian waters), unless the US inland rules conflict with the Canadian Rules. That is covered in Inland Rule 1(a). “(a) These Rules apply to all vessels upon the inland waterso of the United States, and to vessels of the United States on the Canadian waters of the Great Lakes to the extent that there is no conflict with Canadian law.” Canadian Rule 34(g) on one whistle/two whistle appears to be identical to US Inland Rule 34(a). The trickier question is where _exactly_is the line of demarcation for the rest of the U.S. The answer turns out to be a little harder to uncover than you would like. The demarcation line is shown on charts, though it can be hard to find unless you already have a good idea of where to look. There is an appendix to the US navrules book which lists the regulations that describe the demarcation line. As a gross simplification/generalization - if you are seaward of the shoreline - you are probably in the International Rules area, though if you are close to shore in a populated area inside a bay you are quite possibly in Inland Rules areas. Here is an example - in the Galveston Texas to Freeport Texas area. This will give you the flavor of how the demarcation lines are described. 33 CFR § 80.845 - Galveston, TX to Freeport, TX. (a) A line drawn from Galveston North Jetty Light 6A to Galveston South Jetty Light 5A. (b) A line formed by the centerline of the highway bridge over San Luis Pass. (c) Lines formed by the centerlines of the highway bridges over the inlets to Christmas Bay (Cedar Cut) and Drum Bay. (d) A line drawn from the seaward extremity of the Freeport North Jetty to Freeport Entrance Light 6; thence Freeport Entrance Light 7; thence the seaward extremity of Freeport South Jetty. In general, the ICW will always be inland rules. Rivers will always be Inland Rules. As discussed above the Great Lakes is Inland Rules for US vessels. If you travel off the coastaline, say to run outside the ICW you will likely be in International Rules areas, and certainly if you make the jump over to the Bahamas. These are great questions, but require a more in depth discussion than we could fit into a short podcast. The multi part class I ran a while back also focused entirely on the Inland Rules. I encourage you to take an in depth navrules class There is a LOT there to learn. And, very few recreational boaters have any idea about the navules or that different rules may apply in different areas. The more you know, the safer you will be.
Fabulous, a Texan. Our homeport is South Padre Island, TX.
Outstanding job Robert. You have a gift as an educator and your knowledge of the navigation rules is extensive! I may have missed it because I am in the office multi-tasking, but I like to emphasize something that I didn't hear you emphasize. In Crossing, Head-On and Overtaking situations, we don't often discuss WHEN the give way vessel should take action and the manner in which they should take it. They should "take EARLY and SUBSTANTIAL action to keep WELL CLEAR." Rule 16. Boaters, as soon as practicable after realizing that you are the give way vessel, you should take obvious action. We have all been out there when the give way vessel continued to hold course and speed until the point we are wondering if they were going to give way. We may have even used sailor language about them. By taking our action early and making it obvious, we can put the stand on vessel operator at ease. It's hard to squeeze it in on short podcasts, but something to consider sharing, time permitting.
Excellent point!
Great point! Rule 16 is important. I covered that topic, although briefly, at about 28:25. I think that is a really important idea - make course and speed changes as BIG changes, so the other vessel can easily figure out exactly what you are doing. Plus - make those course/speed changes earlier rather than later. That gives everyone more time to figure out what is going on and avoid a dangerous situation
Very informative video. Can never have too many videos that relate to boat safety posted. Thank you for posting. Q: If Canadians are going to do The Loop, must/can they take the American boating safety courses? Is there a Canadian equivalent that will suffice to boat in US waters?
In the US, boater safety education requirements are set by each state. Each of the states participates in an oganizaton called NASBLA - National Assocaition of State Boating Law Administrators. NASBLA is a standards setting body, but is not responsible for enforcing law and does not make law. All the US states I can think of, accept any NASBLA compliant boater safety course for anyone temporarily in their state's waters.
There is a MOU memorandum of understanding between Transport Canada and the US organization NASBLA. That MOU says that NASBLA and Transport Canada each recognize the other's boater safety courses. Keep in mind this says that *NASBLA* recognizes Canadian Boater Safety courses, not that the states will recognize. Also - will a local marine police officer, or fish and game warden have any idea of whether a Canadian boater safety card meets the local requirements?
The easy/peace of mind answer - take a US boater safety course online before coming to the States. Folks from Canada can certainly take a US course. Might not be required, but a little reresher can't hurt. One place you can do the online class is: www.boat-ed.com/
@@robertrice8121 thank you that is perfect. Much appreciated 👍
Thank you for all the information. We are looking into doing the loop in a couple of years when I retire. Do I need to have a captain’s license to do this as it goes thru Canada?. Passports needed?. It’s amazing!
Captain's license is not needed, but a NASBLA-approved (NASBLA.org) course is required in some states. Proof of Citizenship is required to enter Canada. Passport is an easy way to do this and per the CBSA website, is recommended. But I believe there are certain other forms of ID they will accept such as drivers licenses from certain states.
You had me confused there with the sound signal, you expert failed to point out the difference between international collisions regs, sound signals and America specific inland rule sound signals. While the result is the same 1 blast is I’m turning to stb, 2 blasts I’m turning to port (3 blast engines are astern).
The result is port to port or stb to stb but in the international rules it indicates you intended maneuver not you actual maneuver. An important difference as 2 large slow moving vessel may take a long time to actually achieve the maneuver.
Are there parts of loop where international rules apply ? Like approaching NY harbor ? What applies on great lakes?
I guess I need to listen to your in-depth series.
Great podcasts you are doing
Cheer Warren
This is a great question. You are correct, I discussed only the Inland Rules. And, discussed from an US perspective. There is only so much you can do in a short podcast.
You are correct the International and Inland rules are phrased differently. Intl - One whistle means "I am altering course to Starboard" vs. Inland "I intend to leave you on my port side." And, the Inland Rules require an answering sound signal to confirm agreement.
I have moved my boat about 1500 miles down the Western Rivers, and in the Gulf ICW. I have never heard an actual sound signal, not even once and.not even in the distance. 100% of meeting and passing arrangements have been made by radio. That is 100% of meeting and passing arrangements between me and a barge captain, and 100% between barges or other commercial vessels. Those conversations sound like the tow boat captain saying something to me like "See you on the One" Or "Come down my Starboard side" Or "On the one, port to port" I repeat it back, complying with the spirit of the Inland rule that requires an answering sound signal.
Lets fill in a few of the gaps. Again, focusing on US rules.
The key question is WHERE do the inland rules apply? Despite the name, the inland rules apply in some coastal waters, in specific places. The actual dividing line is called the “Line of Demarcation.”
With respect to the Great Lakes the rules are clear - the US inland rules apply to US vessels when on the Great Lakes (even in Canadian waters), unless the US inland rules conflict with the Canadian Rules. That is covered in Inland Rule 1(a). “(a) These Rules apply to all vessels upon the inland waterso of the United States, and to vessels of the United States on the Canadian waters of the Great Lakes to the extent that there is no conflict with Canadian law.” Canadian Rule 34(g) on one whistle/two whistle appears to be identical to US Inland Rule 34(a).
The trickier question is where _exactly_is the line of demarcation for the rest of the U.S. The answer turns out to be a little harder to uncover than you would like.
The demarcation line is shown on charts, though it can be hard to find unless you already have a good idea of where to look. There is an appendix to the US navrules book which lists the regulations that describe the demarcation line. As a gross simplification/generalization - if you are seaward of the shoreline - you are probably in the International Rules area, though if you are close to shore in a populated area inside a bay you are quite possibly in Inland Rules areas.
Here is an example - in the Galveston Texas to Freeport Texas area. This will give you the flavor of how the demarcation lines are described.
33 CFR § 80.845 - Galveston, TX to Freeport, TX.
(a) A line drawn from Galveston North Jetty Light 6A to Galveston South Jetty Light 5A.
(b) A line formed by the centerline of the highway bridge over San Luis Pass.
(c) Lines formed by the centerlines of the highway bridges over the inlets to Christmas Bay (Cedar Cut) and Drum Bay.
(d) A line drawn from the seaward extremity of the Freeport North Jetty to Freeport Entrance Light 6; thence Freeport Entrance Light 7; thence the seaward extremity of Freeport South Jetty.
In general, the ICW will always be inland rules. Rivers will always be Inland Rules. As discussed above the Great Lakes is Inland Rules for US vessels. If you travel off the coastaline, say to run outside the ICW you will likely be in International Rules areas, and certainly if you make the jump over to the Bahamas.
These are great questions, but require a more in depth discussion than we could fit into a short podcast. The multi part class I ran a while back also focused entirely on the Inland Rules.
I encourage you to take an in depth navrules class There is a LOT there to learn. And, very few recreational boaters have any idea about the navules or that different rules may apply in different areas. The more you know, the safer you will be.