As much as I would like to say house church solves many of the issues that are associated with the traditional church model...it does come with its own set of issues/problems. It is important to understand these so they don't bite you! What would you add to the list if you have participated in a church that meets in a home? Thanks for watching!
One thing that you need to ensure is to make sure the family who is hosting is comfortable with their house being used always and to be kind to them and understanding and don’t take advantage of them.
I have been in a traditional church for 23 years Worked in women’s and children’s ministries most of the time Was very aware of all the behind the scenes issues which at times was very difficult I have now been part of a home church for 13 years At this point I can’t imagine ever returning to a traditional church it was too much like a business It became more about how to keep it running which became very overwhelming Where in a home church you don’t have all that You have more peace and a relaxing atmosphere The greatest thing I learned about home church is how your whole life becomes ministry not just on Sunday and Wednesday
Thanks Matt for this. Some people being first introduced to the house church or researching on the house church model may get the idea it sounds wonderful or this is what church should be etc. but working it out practically is much harder. So being honest upfront its messy and can have its problems. Like the NT church was messy too. Alot of times we want like a programmatic system that lays it all out for us because that is our mind set in America but you can program the Holy Spirit right out the house church too. We even want the NT to lay it all out for us in how to do church but it seems God left many things open ended for us so that we work it out among ourselves like what to do with kids etc. I am quite sure they had kids in the house church within the first three centuries. I think most trying the House Church model out come from the traditional model where we are treated like consumers that everything is done for us and easy so its quite a drastic change. Its harder in the house church model and many will be tempted to go back to traditional model because its easier. It is messy in house church because your in other peoples lives and well peoples lives are messy. Your kinda like having to be Counselors within the biblical model of counseling. So the group as a whole is kinda like having to take on the responsibilities that in the traditional model did not have to deal with, everything was done for you that the church is here to serve you instead of you serving others. Its the consumer mindset. The Lord Jesus said I come to serve not be served. But It can get to be draining and burn out if you trying to do it all yourself. That is why the need to share in the responsibilities so its not all on one person or a couple of people in the home group. Ofcoarse kids is the number one problem with house church but like I said because most coming to your house church is coming from the traditional model its going to be quite an adjustment because you just shoved your kids off to whatever age group in the traditional model. So biblically parents are suppose to be training up their own kids in the ways of the Lord. It makes it easier although still hard to make the transition to house church if parents have been discipling their own kids. But for most parents coming from the traditional model have not been doing the discipling of their own kids because again the traditional model made it easy for them to escape that responsibility. So there will be much grace needed in the house church model to help parents get their kids in a discipleship mindset at home with their kids that will make the transition more easier when they come to house church time with their extended family of God.
@@Cara96 Yes, our leadership model is a plurality of elders. When and if (which is rarely) big decisions need to be made, we make them together as equals. And on some occasions we make them as a church, not by a vote, though, but by consensus of the Spirit, and on these occasions, we have had unanimity of the Spirit.
@bernhardbauer5301 of course the church is led by Christ and Holy Spirit. Then there are human local people who lead the church boots on the ground as well. But the humans are not in charge of the church. They operate under the authority of Christ.
@revolutionofordinaries I do not believe in pastors. I do not believe in Ravi Zacharias, Morris, Lawson .... For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. There is NO clergy between me and Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour.
This is only the 2nd time I have seen a video from you. I perceive that you are in a home church or you are a pastor of a home church. AMEN! . We left the "Institutional" church over 6 years ago and we wish we had left 40 years ago. We have been in a home church ever since. Church "PROGRAMS" are a hindrance, NOT a help. Show me a church program in the NT or in the OT. Would to God that all Churches would follow the examples set forth in the Book of Acts where Home churches prevailed ... and there were no programs ... Just preaching! Look what God accomplished in just a few years with NO programs. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ... Keep the children with parents! If the parents are responsible for teaching their children (and they are), then they also need to know what they are being taught ... and they cannot do that if their kid is in a Sunday School room down the hall somewhere. KIDS ARE SMART. We do not need to dumb down the bible for the kids. The children may not appear to be paying attention, but they learn and they remember. I am a father of five (now all married with kids of their own) and I can assure you, kids do not need a dumbed down bible. Instead of Sunday School, instead of Children's church, let them hear and learn the truth while sitting with their parents. Christ was in the church at the age of 12, probably sooner. Samuel served as a "toddler". Christ said suffer the children to come unto me. He did NOT say, put them in the nursery or in a Sunday School room. Remember, the family is patterned after "THE CHURCH" or "THE CHURCH is patterned after the family. Either way you look at it, If you separate the family during the "assembly", you are literally "splitting" the church and you are telling the children that God is not capable of teaching them without dumbing down the lesson. Comments are welcomed.
@@revolutionofordinaries GOD! 😬 After 33-ish years in the IFB churches, the LORD starting showing my wife and I the multitude of the "traditions of men" that are in most churches today. It took two or three years for God to convince us to leave what I call the "church SYSTEM". Even after we left the system, it was over a year before the LORD "removed the vail" (2 Corinthians 3:15-16) and miraculously opened my eyes to the real truth found in the bible. At the same time, God led us to a home church which was at the home of an auto mechanic that I had known for years and even used a few times. God has a sense of humor! I believe it was God that lead me to this mechanic, literally on "APRIL FOOLS Day, to have some work done on our car. The Mechanic (whose shop was at his house) invited me into his home. He quickly began "Preaching to me". (for over two hours). Much of what he said was completely contrary to what I had been taught (and believed) in the previous 35 years. But this mechanic showed me scripture, scripture, and a WHOLE LOT more scripture proving that what he was saying was true. I KNEW, even as he spoke, that what he was saying was TRUTH. That day, that April FOOL's day, God showed me what a fool I had been! That day, the bible became a whole new book to me. The LORD has taught me a whole lot more in the last five years than what I had learned in the "system" in over 35 years. My apologies for the long story ... but I CANNOT get over the miracle. I MUST tell the story. I am still rejoicing every day for the miraculous eye opening experience. I cannot comprehend how or why God did this for me ... but I thank HIM nearly every day for it! Thanks for listening.
A big one is just "unlearning" all the things from the institutional church that are non- or unbiblical. There is a need to really study the Bible and church history in order to get closer to the biblical model of Ekklesia. This can be a long slow process. Intentional teaching is needed.
It may have been too brutal but a number of years ago I published an ebook titled Christian Worship Services: Would Jesus Attend? To date no one ever read the ebook, zero purchases! The control of the podium should be equally shared to receive balanced teaching. So since that time our house ecclesia has only three members, Joshua Messiah, my wife and myself.
I would consider getting in some kind of assembly, even if a dozen people. It keeps us accountable to others, brings balance to things, discplines us to allow others things we might not pick ourselves, etc.
Good points. The ONLY biblical pattern are home churches (see the entire New Testament) where the believers come together to worship the Lord, be used in the spiritual gifts to edify, exhort and comfort one another and to be taught the Word of God. Any other man-made programs that fall outside of this pattern are NOT biblical.
I believe that some of the potential problems that you’ve listed will be determined by the geographical location, suburban/ urban or rural, and the age’s of the members who are gathering. Each home based church will have its own set of dynamics. One potential problem that you didn’t mention is the inclination to become isolated from other communities of believers. In other words, how can a restoration of early Christianity house church culture achieve the unity of various house church groups that were scattered throughout the Roman Empire without the equivalent of some sort of apostolic leadership?
That's a great point Robert. That should be addressed. We do that in a few ways by cooperating with other churches. I talk with the staff of one church in town to encourage them on discipleship and am about to reach out to other church staffs. We also about to have some cooperation on the Hispanic ministry side of things soon.
Although I facilitate a type of house church at a local nursing home and another one at our place, I’m still active at a local mens Wednesday night Bible study, where I’ve spoken with a couple of the elders about the need for home church gatherings. I’m hopeful that this may lead to that sort of unity.
House churches are Biblical not these mega churches when you walk in, and out without a single person engaging you.never mind the elders, or the pastor.
Share the responsibility, make disciples, delegate, appreciate, congratulate, celebrate, encourage. Do not micro=manage. We don't want mini me's. Grow to a comfortable size and divide creating another cell. Don't try to control growth, manage it. Just a few ideas from personal experience.
Well then, prayerfully consider reading the breakthrough novel "Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke." A Divine Comedy Tale of the Christ. Advanced. Enjoy!
Good topic...seems some things really help home- church. Most of Parent's & church's shortcomings, simply come from NOT learning the Bible.... Bible must be usefully & systematically taught & modeled, so people learn what is in it - not spoon fed verse sermons...whole chapters & discussions & questions, More. Sabbath meeting time 3-4 hours & perhaps an easy activity each Sabbath. A Wed 2-3 hour Evening meeting time. Yes, both Families Meeting time & underage Kids meet separately 1-2 hours. A Family & Friends home focus, so each Parent disciples kids at home too- another thing common church fails to teach. Building Families,Assembly,& Kingdom is essential. The church, usually tries to build itself...not Families & Kingdom. The assembly is a Practice for Kingdom, not the church. More.
The greatest hinderance in house church is the tendency to try tp pour the old wine into the new wineskin. The things done in "churches" should not be attempted in homes. The things done in the churches is why people go to home churches. Why try to emulate the problems into the solution?
Trying to scale big church into homes takes a lot of work and can result in the same issues. There are elements of worship that will be common to both - prayer, worship, something from the word, communion, etc. but it is in how we structure it and trying to no longer control the Holy Spirit out of it that sets house churches apart.
@@revolutionofordinaries It is my opinion that scale is not the problem; paradigm is. And a dramatic misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of believers' meetings. Not to mention the utter lack of real prayer in the body, eh?
@busker153 scale is a problem. The other problems have been discussed here on many occasion but not the problem of scale. So you are right. That just wasn’t the point of this particular video.
More than consider I anticipate that door to open. "You have put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and wine increased. I will both lay down in peace and sleep: because you YHWH, isolated me to dwell in security. Psalm 4:7,8 (UTV)
Hello Matt, hope you are doing well and hope u had a wonderful Easter!! Ive watched several of your videos over the past couple of months and as I have listened to u and also guys like Frank Viola and why he left the institutionalized church model back in the 80s and having read some of his books like reimagining church, its become so clear to me why ive just never really fit into the traditional church model and why it always left me feeling bored and wondering is this it? I live in Sioux Falls SD currently but im from WV originally and i guess i would like to ask u Matt for advice? I have no interest in going back to the institutionalized church model but i also dont know how to go about finding organic church. Perhaps we could speak about this via email? If and when you have time of course.
I want to be part of something like this, really I do - but I am not accustomed to that level of closeness. Also, I think this idea of ‘accountability’ is a recent, overused concept - I prefer for people to be self leading and for us as a body to assume that each of us is, for the most part- with few exceptions, doing our best. Otherwise, folks get dependent in ways that are unnecessary and unfruitful. I saw this in the early Jesus movement- it just doesn’t work.
I would disagree on accountability. The Bible teaches it. This a healthy practice when done mutually and out of love. In my walk I have always walked more faithfully with accountability than without it.
We have done home church for over three years and that has never been an issue. House church isn't the issue...that is lack of accountability, lack of loving relationships, lack of obedience to scripture...it isn't a house church problem/house church doesn't cause that.
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
As much as I would like to say house church solves many of the issues that are associated with the traditional church model...it does come with its own set of issues/problems. It is important to understand these so they don't bite you!
What would you add to the list if you have participated in a church that meets in a home? Thanks for watching!
One thing that you need to ensure is to make sure the family who is hosting is comfortable with their house being used always and to be kind to them and understanding and don’t take advantage of them.
@@TULIP1024 That's a great point!
I have been in a traditional church for 23 years Worked in women’s and children’s ministries most of the time Was very aware of all the behind the scenes issues which at times was very difficult I have now been part of a home church for 13 years At this point I can’t imagine ever returning to a traditional church it was too much like a business It became more about how to keep it running which became very overwhelming Where in a home church you don’t have all that You have more peace and a relaxing atmosphere The greatest thing I learned about home church is how your whole life becomes ministry not just on Sunday and Wednesday
Thanks Matt for this. Some people being first introduced to the house church or researching on the house church model may get the idea it sounds wonderful or this is what church should be etc. but working it out practically is much harder. So being honest upfront its messy and can have its problems. Like the NT church was messy too. Alot of times we want like a programmatic system that lays it all out for us because that is our mind set in America but you can program the Holy Spirit right out the house church too. We even want the NT to lay it all out for us in how to do church but it seems God left many things open ended for us so that we work it out among ourselves like what to do with kids etc. I am quite sure they had kids in the house church within the first three centuries.
I think most trying the House Church model out come from the traditional model where we are treated like consumers that everything is done for us and easy so its quite a drastic change. Its harder in the house church model and many will be tempted to go back to traditional model because its easier. It is messy in house church because your in other peoples lives and well peoples lives are messy. Your kinda like having to be Counselors within the biblical model of counseling. So the group as a whole is kinda like having to take on the responsibilities that in the traditional model did not have to deal with, everything was done for you that the church is here to serve you instead of you serving others. Its the consumer mindset. The Lord Jesus said I come to serve not be served.
But It can get to be draining and burn out if you trying to do it all yourself. That is why the need to share in the responsibilities so its not all on one person or a couple of people in the home group.
Ofcoarse kids is the number one problem with house church but like I said because most coming to your house church is coming from the traditional model its going to be quite an adjustment because you just shoved your kids off to whatever age group in the traditional model. So biblically parents are suppose to be training up their own kids in the ways of the Lord. It makes it easier although still hard to make the transition to house church if parents have been discipling their own kids. But for most parents coming from the traditional model have not been doing the discipling of their own kids because again the traditional model made it easy for them to escape that responsibility. So there will be much grace needed in the house church model to help parents get their kids in a discipleship mindset at home with their kids that will make the transition more easier when they come to house church time with their extended family of God.
This is a solid assessment! Great point on needing grace...it takes time to deprogram from BIG church.
Been leading a house church for 20 years. It is a family, as church should be, and a joy.
@@Cara96 Yes, our leadership model is a plurality of elders. When and if (which is rarely) big decisions need to be made, we make them together as equals. And on some occasions we make them as a church, not by a vote, though, but by consensus of the Spirit, and on these occasions, we have had unanimity of the Spirit.
That's awesome David! Thanks for leaving a comment and watching!
You have been leading a house church?
Isn't the church lead by Christ through the Holy Spirit?
@bernhardbauer5301 of course the church is led by Christ and Holy Spirit. Then there are human local people who lead the church boots on the ground as well. But the humans are not in charge of the church. They operate under the authority of Christ.
@revolutionofordinaries
I do not believe in pastors.
I do not believe in
Ravi Zacharias, Morris, Lawson ....
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
There is NO clergy between me and Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour.
This is only the 2nd time I have seen a video from you. I perceive that you are in a home church or you are a pastor of a home church. AMEN! . We left the "Institutional" church over 6 years ago and we wish we had left 40 years ago. We have been in a home church ever since. Church "PROGRAMS" are a hindrance, NOT a help. Show me a church program in the NT or in the OT. Would to God that all Churches would follow the examples set forth in the Book of Acts where Home churches prevailed ... and there were no programs ... Just preaching! Look what God accomplished in just a few years with NO programs. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ... Keep the children with parents! If the parents are responsible for teaching their children (and they are), then they also need to know what they are being taught ... and they cannot do that if their kid is in a Sunday School room down the hall somewhere. KIDS ARE SMART. We do not need to dumb down the bible for the kids. The children may not appear to be paying attention, but they learn and they remember. I am a father of five (now all married with kids of their own) and I can assure you, kids do not need a dumbed down bible. Instead of Sunday School, instead of Children's church, let them hear and learn the truth while sitting with their parents. Christ was in the church at the age of 12, probably sooner. Samuel served as a "toddler". Christ said suffer the children to come unto me. He did NOT say, put them in the nursery or in a Sunday School room. Remember, the family is patterned after "THE CHURCH" or "THE CHURCH is patterned after the family. Either way you look at it, If you separate the family during the "assembly", you are literally "splitting" the church and you are telling the children that God is not capable of teaching them without dumbing down the lesson. Comments are welcomed.
Thanks for sharing from your experience. What caused you to make the shift?
@@revolutionofordinaries GOD! 😬 After 33-ish years in the IFB churches, the LORD starting showing my wife and I the multitude of the "traditions of men" that are in most churches today. It took two or three years for God to convince us to leave what I call the "church SYSTEM". Even after we left the system, it was over a year before the LORD "removed the vail" (2 Corinthians 3:15-16) and miraculously opened my eyes to the real truth found in the bible. At the same time, God led us to a home church which was at the home of an auto mechanic that I had known for years and even used a few times. God has a sense of humor! I believe it was God that lead me to this mechanic, literally on "APRIL FOOLS Day, to have some work done on our car. The Mechanic (whose shop was at his house) invited me into his home. He quickly began "Preaching to me". (for over two hours). Much of what he said was completely contrary to what I had been taught (and believed) in the previous 35 years. But this mechanic showed me scripture, scripture, and a WHOLE LOT more scripture proving that what he was saying was true. I KNEW, even as he spoke, that what he was saying was TRUTH. That day, that April FOOL's day, God showed me what a fool I had been! That day, the bible became a whole new book to me. The LORD has taught me a whole lot more in the last five years than what I had learned in the "system" in over 35 years. My apologies for the long story ... but I CANNOT get over the miracle. I MUST tell the story. I am still rejoicing every day for the miraculous eye opening experience. I cannot comprehend how or why God did this for me ... but I thank HIM nearly every day for it! Thanks for listening.
Wow! To God be the glory!! This was very apt! 😮
A big one is just "unlearning" all the things from the institutional church that are non- or unbiblical. There is a need to really study the Bible and church history in order to get closer to the biblical model of Ekklesia. This can be a long slow process. Intentional teaching is needed.
Totally agree! Thanks for leaving a comment and watching!
It may have been too brutal but a number of years ago I published an ebook titled Christian Worship Services: Would Jesus Attend? To date no one ever read the ebook, zero purchases! The control of the podium should be equally shared to receive balanced teaching. So since that time our house ecclesia has only three members, Joshua Messiah, my wife and myself.
I would consider getting in some kind of assembly, even if a dozen people. It keeps us accountable to others, brings balance to things, discplines us to allow others things we might not pick ourselves, etc.
Good points.
The ONLY biblical pattern are home churches (see the entire New Testament) where the believers come together to worship the Lord, be used in the spiritual gifts to edify, exhort and comfort one another and to be taught the Word of God. Any other man-made programs that fall outside of this pattern are NOT biblical.
I think God uses it all...even our messed up versions of things. But yes, there were no church buildings for 230+ years.
I believe that some of the potential problems that you’ve listed will be determined by the geographical location, suburban/ urban or rural, and the age’s of the members who are gathering. Each home based church will have its own set of dynamics. One potential problem that you didn’t mention is the inclination to become isolated from other communities of believers. In other words, how can a restoration of early Christianity house church culture achieve the unity of various house church groups that were scattered throughout the Roman Empire without the equivalent of some sort of apostolic leadership?
That's a great point Robert. That should be addressed. We do that in a few ways by cooperating with other churches. I talk with the staff of one church in town to encourage them on discipleship and am about to reach out to other church staffs. We also about to have some cooperation on the Hispanic ministry side of things soon.
Although I facilitate a type of house church at a local nursing home and another one at our place, I’m still active at a local mens Wednesday night Bible study, where I’ve spoken with a couple of the elders about the need for home church gatherings. I’m hopeful that this may lead to that sort of unity.
House churches are Biblical not these mega churches when you walk in, and out without a single person engaging you.never mind the elders, or the pastor.
Very hard to hide in a living room!
Share the responsibility, make disciples, delegate, appreciate, congratulate, celebrate, encourage. Do not micro=manage. We don't want mini me's. Grow to a comfortable size and divide creating another cell. Don't try to control growth, manage it. Just a few ideas from personal experience.
So good! Thanks for leaving a comment.
Well then, prayerfully consider reading the breakthrough novel "Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke." A Divine Comedy Tale of the Christ. Advanced. Enjoy!
Thanks Robert!
Good topic...seems some things really help home- church.
Most of Parent's & church's shortcomings, simply come from NOT
learning the Bible....
Bible must be usefully & systematically taught & modeled, so
people learn what is in it - not spoon fed verse sermons...whole chapters & discussions & questions, More.
Sabbath meeting time 3-4 hours & perhaps an easy activity each Sabbath.
A Wed 2-3 hour Evening meeting time.
Yes, both Families Meeting time & underage Kids meet separately 1-2 hours.
A Family & Friends home focus, so each Parent disciples kids at home too- another thing common church fails to teach.
Building Families,Assembly,& Kingdom is essential.
The church, usually tries to build itself...not Families & Kingdom.
The assembly is a Practice for Kingdom, not the church.
More.
This is absolute gold..."The church, usually tries to build itself...not Families & Kingdom. The assembly is a Practice for Kingdom, not the church."
I sharpened & added to my answer, because so much time is wasted by unorganized church routines....
This is very informative thank you. Do you have a full-time job other than your TH-cam channel?
I do digital marketing, church planting and work part time at discipleship.org
The greatest hinderance in house church is the tendency to try tp pour the old wine into the new wineskin. The things done in "churches" should not be attempted in homes. The things done in the churches is why people go to home churches. Why try to emulate the problems into the solution?
Trying to scale big church into homes takes a lot of work and can result in the same issues. There are elements of worship that will be common to both - prayer, worship, something from the word, communion, etc. but it is in how we structure it and trying to no longer control the Holy Spirit out of it that sets house churches apart.
@@revolutionofordinaries It is my opinion that scale is not the problem; paradigm is. And a dramatic misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of believers' meetings. Not to mention the utter lack of real prayer in the body, eh?
@busker153 scale is a problem. The other problems have been discussed here on many occasion but not the problem of scale. So you are right. That just wasn’t the point of this particular video.
More than consider I anticipate that door to open.
"You have put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and wine increased. I will both lay down in peace and sleep: because you YHWH, isolated me to dwell in security. Psalm 4:7,8 (UTV)
Very good!
Hello Matt, hope you are doing well and hope u had a wonderful Easter!! Ive watched several of your videos over the past couple of months and as I have listened to u and also guys like Frank Viola and why he left the institutionalized church model back in the 80s and having read some of his books like reimagining church, its become so clear to me why ive just never really fit into the traditional church model and why it always left me feeling bored and wondering is this it? I live in Sioux Falls SD currently but im from WV originally and i guess i would like to ask u Matt for advice? I have no interest in going back to the institutionalized church model but i also dont know how to go about finding organic church. Perhaps we could speak about this via email? If and when you have time of course.
Glad to help - matthewdabbs@hotmail.com
@@revolutionofordinariesThank u so much. I will write to u later. I'm currently dog sick 🤮 I can barely get out of bed.
House church is still better than the franchise business church
I agree
I want to be part of something like this, really I do - but I am not accustomed to that level of closeness. Also, I think this idea of ‘accountability’ is a recent, overused concept - I prefer for people to be self leading and for us as a body to assume that each of us is, for the most part- with few exceptions, doing our best. Otherwise, folks get dependent in ways that are unnecessary and unfruitful. I saw this in the early Jesus movement- it just doesn’t work.
I would disagree on accountability. The Bible teaches it. This a healthy practice when done mutually and out of love. In my walk I have always walked more faithfully with accountability than without it.
Like a lot of home Bible study groups, it turns into a gossip fest.
We have done home church for over three years and that has never been an issue. House church isn't the issue...that is lack of accountability, lack of loving relationships, lack of obedience to scripture...it isn't a house church problem/house church doesn't cause that.
So can church study groups
Any group of people CAN turn into a gossip fest, but doesn't have to.
Something that is commonly said but I find that people try to be careful.