What makes the last scene even sadder is the fact that she's never tasted vanilla ice cream, because "it was for boys", and BoJack saying "Can you taste it?" breaks the illusion, making Beatrice doubt, and get confused instead of happy, as she cannot recall the vanilla ice cream flavor. This show's visual storytelling is just fascinating...
Also BoJack has a fridge full of lemons and sugar because it was filled with sweet things. Because Bea had never eaten sweets before, her mind filled in all of the sweet stuff with sugar and lemons. That's so sad.
Wait how do we know she's never had vanilla ice cream before? Earlier in season 4 episode 2 Beatrice's mom says that ice pops were for boys but later at the barn or whatever that was with the piano her mom let her have an ice pop
Bojack Horseman will remain the same egotistical, self righteous, arrogant, idiotic, insecure piece of shit...I just want someone to beat him up and then send him to jail. But hey that's just how I personally feel about Bojack.
Zero i honestly never thought he was THAT bad bc his friends were also annoying. Like anytime he would tell Diane off, he would be right bc she just tries to stand for everything and it makes me cringe
The Rules of Watching a Season of Bojack 1. Dont trust episode 11. 2. Dont trust the penultimate episode. 3. Dont trust the episode between 10 and 12. 4. Don't trust the second to last episode. 5. Pay keen attention throughout episode 10 so you at least have some faint notion of how episode 11 is gonna wreck you and you're not totally blindsided.
It’s really hurtful to the people around the person with dementia. The person isn’t suffering but I’m guessing the person you know is disappearing and them just becoming a shell is just heartbreaking
Fun fact: the opening of this entire season has had Bojack get trippy/drugged after drinking a sip of coffee, Beatrice's coffee package is even behind him on the counter. Foreshadowing is amazing in this show.
And in his inner monologue in the beginning of Stupid Piece of Shit, Bojack was worried to leave milk in case his mother "poisoned" Hollyhock. At the time he meant poisoned Hollyhocks personality or image of Bojack or something, but it forshadows what really happened
@Baykush Thanks, I just a few episodes into season 5 and now I know a female character will get choked and it will be an important plot point. I hope karma gets you.
@@BarteNERDS Serious bummer, but then again I didn't record any of my reactions so who am I to complain? Maybe it's time to recruit a friend who's new to it and do a recorded rewatch!
Speaking as someone who has a parent with now-advanced Alzheimer's, I can tell you that the scene where Beatrice kept asking Bojack about where she was; I have been there with my mother in the earlier stages of her condition. When she asked to go home, she wasn't talking about the house I grew up in, but the one she grew up in during the 40s and 50s; which was sold after my grandfather passed 20 years earlier. At first, just like Bojack was doing, you're trying to rationalize with them; telling this person "no, you're at your home now". Or she would be asking when Dad would be coming by; she wasn't talking about her husband (my father), but her late father. Her mind retreated back to when she was a child in the 50s. And again, at first you want to tell her "Ma, Grandad passed some time ago", but that doesn't help things and just gets her crying. So, again just like Bojack, you find the best way to handle that is to go along with the notion that these places/people are still relevant (so instead of reminding her that my grandfather had passed, I would tell her he might be coming soon or that I didn't nkow when). So despite Beatrice being a horrible mother, she is still Bojack's mother; and so I can completely understand where he's coming from with what he did.
If you pay attention, you'll notice that the servants who are throwing her things in the fire also have their faces scribbled out like Henrietta's, because the pain of those two memories are connected.
Rana's reaction at 15:00 is perfect. That was every girl watching this and thinking 'oh god what if I'd been the one growing up in that era with that father.' Mr. Sugarman is low-key threatening his little girl with a lobotomy if she doesn't keep a lid on her emotions.
That’s why she didn’t love Bojack,she was so scared to show emotions cause she thought she was going to be lobotomized and it sounds so scary to grow up during those times
I was a crying mess after this episode.. stuff got too real. Like Rana said, I basically didn't know how to feel about Bojack's mom after this one. You get to really understand the complexity and empathize.
Beatrice is honestly my favorite character. Even though she is such a terrible person and treated Bojack terribly, learning about her life in this episode can make one pity her. She’s so dimensional and I love that about her.
I mean, the show doesn’t absolve her of her wrongdoings though, and imo it shouldn’t. The point of the show is to explain, not excuse. The way Beatrice treated her son isn’t right, even if she was unhappy, the same way bojack’s upbringing doesn’t justify the way he treats other people. I feel like the only person on this show that deserves forgiveness was Sarah Lynn, who has only hurt herself and not everyone else
@@anylove370 Well that’s the thing about reality, everyone wants a bad guy to blame for when things go wrong in the world, but no one decides to do wrong with sane mind, their experiences have either altered their way of thinking into an unhealthy one or they have some mental condition in the brain. It’s up to the person to recognize that their behavior is unhealthy and seek to change it. Beatrice’s past doesn’t make her treatment of Bojack any better, but we need to stop finding a person to blame, that’s not the point of the show. The point is to show that abusive/toxic behavior is a cycle, and you are responsible for whether or not you decide to get better or if you will refuse to leave your comfort zone and allow yourself to be a toxic person. Bojack realizes that his behavior is bad, but it’s not enough to acknowledge it if you do nothing with that knowledge.
13:21 "Is that Hollyhock?" *unanimous "No"* Wow, you guys need to pay more attention to Rana. In many reactions, she tends to be more observant than you.
Throughout wactching them, you can 100% tell that she's trying very hard to pay attention like, through everybody else talking and shit, her attention is always focused on the show rather than what her friends are talking about. She likes the material, she wants to absorb it wholly and hear what's being said.
A big thing I've gotten from Bojack Horseman for myself and some family members is that past events and family history can be an EXPLANATION for actions but not an EXCUSE. It can explain why they think and act but it doesn't excuse it away. I know those two words for some can be one and the same but I've learned that they are two very different things. I had an emotionally abusive ex and so that explains my actions where I don't go out much more or get very reserved with the topic of close relationships but it doesn't excuse me getting better or not working towards getting better.
YES! Thank you, I'm 4 years late, but thank you for saying this. I've been stuck in this weird limbo of people willingly or accidently confusing those 2 terms and expecting everybody else to do that too for way too long. I thought I was the odd one for not forgiving Beatrice her deeds, even though I now appreciate and understand her character better.
Some lines Beatrice said this season that make more sense now: "Henrietta, you're not fit to be a mother!" "You waste of my husband's jism!" She also occasionally refers to Hollyhock as "the baby" when it seems like she's talking about the baby doll.
The fact that his mother says "You're Bojack Horseman, you were born broken." Makes it so much more powerful now. She's talking about his entire legacy, they were all broken.
yep guys, beatrice's mind is stuck in the past and the blank faces are people beatrice don't remember, the scratched ones are people she want to forget
She was calling Bojack Henrietta, not Hollyhock. Rewatching, I wondered if she just thought he was Henrietta because she was introduced to Hollyhock by Bojack as his daughter.
to be fair, Beatrice did promise. "Beatrice? promise me you will never love anyone as much as I loved crackerjack" "I promise!" "well I've got half a mind...."
Bojack Horseman is the show that portrays mental health the best and most importantly in its most real form. I love this show, and man this episode was hard to revisit.
And the most important, it uses surreal humor to balance the subject matter so it doesn't get depressive all the time This is why half of the characters are animals, this is why there are animal jokes and meta humor, and this is why this show is so great.
That's the part that destroyed me the most when I watched it. Don't know why... maybe because I realized that Bojack tried to help her, do something nice for someone for once... and still fucked it up. It's not his fault, but... it doesnt make it better, does it?
I thought that was a really nice moment actually. She becomes aware because she hasn’t had ice cream and realizes bojack is lying to try to make her feel better and comfort her and she decides to go with it for once and accept that bojack is being kind to her instead of berating him
@@tricksterhuaun No. She knew it was a lie, that's why she paused and frowned before answering him. Also, when they showed the flashback with Bojack opening his fridge, it's full of lemons and sugar, because that was the only "dessert" she was allowed to consume.
Remember Bojack's mother was never allowed to eat Ice Cream. So when Bojack tries to make her imagine it you can tell she's faking because she doesn't know what it tastes like.
This is probably my favourite episode of the show; the way the creators use the art style in this episode is so creative and clever, and the story it tells is so powerful.
I love Nahid. I love how pissed off he gets about aspects of society and goes off for a bit because of the devastating things shown in episodes like this. He often reins himself in and apologizes for feeling so strongly, but I really appreciate that kind of reaction because it's what these topics deserve.
This was a hard episode, man. I really love how the show makes you sympathize with Beatrice and understand her, but at the same time never excuses her for the way she treated her son. Same with Bea's father, who did what doctors told him was right for his wife and then suddenly found himself with a dead son, a young, frightened daughter, and a severely impaired wife (a truly tragic character in all this). He was doing what he thought you were supposed to do back then but at no point is he excused either. And Butterscotch. Was he just doing the best he could with what he had? Was Beatrice? Did they all just do the best they could and their best just ended up being awful? I don't know. This show is tough.
I think the reason the dad burned it all, was because she had been sick. So her things needed to be burned... (Could probably have been sanitized hatever it's called instead though.) It's crazy how things from when you are a kid is grown into your being forever. Some things, especially traumu just sticks, and never let go.
14:08 "I T ' S H O L L Y" **slams pillow into friend across the couch** holy shit that was hilarious, I don't normally watch group reaction vids but that just fucking sold me lmao
Also one small detail I like with Joseph. Look at his ears when he says "You don't want to end up like your mother do you?" they look like devil horns.
"It tastes so....delicious" She pauses because she never had ice cream, because her dad said it would make her fat. She doesn't know what it tastes like.
It's a generational issue. You act how you are raised to act, and just so happens that people who are raised the old fashioned ways tend to act out the old fashioned ways when it comes to race or gender (as my woman who birthed me once said "Spots with spots, stripes with stripes", basically meaning "don't date/marry outside your race".. thank god I was raised by my grandparents on my father's side).
@@Jeremy-jm3fe You mean the woman who used to pin my sister to the wall and beat the shit out of her because she talked back? The same woman who wouldn't hesitate to call you fat, tell you to stand up so "everyone can see how big you are".. *at your uncle's fucking funeral?* Nah, man. That bitch is the woman who birthed me. My mother is my grandmother who adopted and loved me.
My Grandma was almost a carbon copy of Beatrice. Being abusive and cruel to the People around her. When i was a Child i could not stand up to her, and when i was old enough Dementia had almost completely eradicated her Personality. At that point, she was only a scared old Women, and what is the point at being mean to someone in that situation anymore?
I really like how this episode explained Beatrice’s past. It’s not meant to excuse the way she treated BoJack by any means. It doesn’t make her a “good” or even likeable character in the sense of good vs evil. But it does explain why she acted the way she did. She kept her promise to her mother, and never loved anyone as much as her mother loved Crackerjack.
Most twisted maybe, but the showstopper's indictment of hollywood culture is probably darker especially when you consider the real world implications. I won't get deeper into the reasons why until that reaction video though because there's too much to unpack to compare and analyze especially since anything if the sort would be extremely spoiler heavy
This episode and Free Churro cemented BoJack to me as undoubtedly one of the greatest shows of this generation. No, ever. It's all great. But some episodes hit so hard, it's like getting a bowling ball dropped on your chest. You want to laugh, and cry. And everything in between. It leaves you emotionally demolished, but so satisfied because of what kind of masterpiece you've just witnessed.
“ Beatrice remember we say about crying... crying is stupid! :D” That is so haunting, and to say it to a little kid of all people makes my skin crawl...
My favorite episode of the whole series! It's about the cycle of hatred and resentment and what it does to everyone it comes in contact with. The whole episode explores how traumatized Beatrice really was and how those awful experiences with her father were passed down to Bojack through the way she raised him. The Hollyhock plot-twist was great too! However, my favorite part of the episode is the end. Bojack, even after saying that he was going to give his mom all of that hate and resentment back, chooses to break the cycle of hate and give Beatrice the best thing he could have given her at that moment, a reality that she can tolerate from then on. This.... I find true beauty in this act. A beautiful moment that came to be despite ALL of the shit that surrounded it, despite the complete opposite being justified! That moment, ladies and gentlemen, is what i call true beauty.
"Here's your omelet. I'm sorry it's not as good as the omelets your secretary makes, but then, you're not married to your secretary are you?" "Well, maybe if my secretary also refused to get an abortion, I would be." - Beatrice and Butterscotch Horseman in Season 1 Episode 2 Their first lines in the series are about Butterscotch knocking up a woman who works for him. Years later, he does the same with Henrietta. The foreshadowing in this show is phenomenal.
(Minor vague spoilers, I think) Bojack is, in a lot of ways, a story about how family trauma and disfunction is inherited. Beatrice went through so much shit as a young child and carried that resentment and agony and disappointment through her adulthood, compounded by having a disfucntional and bitter husband. She almost had no chance to "learn from what she went through" and be a better mother for Bojack because she had no support system to help her learn and heal from her own trauma. Even for the other characters-- Diane and her family and how she never felt like she belonged and they always made fun of her and belittled her for her intelligence (might make sense why she ends up falling for 'simple' happy men like Mr. Peanutbutter). Princess Carolyn also carries the weight of expectation in terms of motherhood and success-- her mother was a drunkard and always relied on her (making her anxious and workaholic). Mr. Peanutbutter is kind of the same, to an extent, with his life philosophy changing after his father's cancer-- life is just finding a series of distractions and then you die. We don't know much about Todd's backstory, but even with a side character like his girlfriend Yolanda-- she's harboring anxieties and shame about her asexuality because she came from a family of porn stars. The reason why people react so well and so fiercely about this show is because it is relatable in all the hurtful, meaningful ways that real life is. Experiences with distant parents, or overbearing relatives, or unavailable partners. This is one of many episodes that really brings that point home. But no matter how dark the show can get, that final moment with Bojack and Beatrice gives us a bit of light. Remember, Bojack says that if his mother ever remembers him, he'll finally tell her "FUCK YOU" to her face. Instead he paints a nice picture for her and comforts her when she is confused and scared. Bojack can be the one to break the cycle. See you guys in Season 5!
Its really funny to see how this episode affect them, eventhough at the start they said stuff like: "I dont seeing this show getting THAT dark, its seems really kiddy".
@@Jeremy-jm3fe I think he means they never thought the story would turn out to be so meaningful and dark with such complex characters because of how simple, light hearted and crude the first half of the first season was. I mean first watching it, it looked like it would be a family guy type of comedy show full of cutaway gags where nothing has consequences and everything goes back to normal by the end of the episode.
I won’t spoil anything, but despite the overall somber tone of the episode with only a few legit funny moments the ending is one of the show’s funniest
That last part wasn't actually real, but basically how Beatrice internalized it. He never outright said "crying is stupid and you will be punished for your emotions", but that's ultimately what her father taught her along with society. That ending scene where they're standing in the flames is basically the accumulation of every negative belief people threw at her
There at the end Beatrice is lying, she has no idea how ice-cream tastes like, since unlike sugar on a lemon, it's not a dessert for women. It's even sadder to think that part of her must know her mind is screwed and it's all in her head
one of the worst things is that Bojack will never know what his mother went through for all her life. I'm not saying he wouldn't forgive her but I think he would be a bit more in peace with his whole world if he knew
"Those fish do not like being canned." That was pretty funny. And when they call Bojack a dumb baby and he replies, "I'm not a baby. I'm six. I'm speaking in full sentences."
The treatment Beatrice endured explains how she treated Bojack, but it doesn't excuse it. Exactly like how how she and Butterscotch treated Bojack as a child explains his behaviour, but doesn't excuse that either. You can feel sorry for both of them whilst still thinking that they could and should have done a lot better to not repeat their parents' mistakes.
Remember in the old sugarmans place she asked for ice cream and they said no that’s a boys snack a girls snack is like a lemon wedge or something. She finally got to taste it... (kinda)
Bojacks parents remind me of F. Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald. Scott was a struggling writer who met Zelda at a ball and their marriage was rocky and turbulent.
The saddest thing is that Bojack unknowingly is behaving just like his father, who had Bojack's mother lobotomized when she had a seizure. Bojack likewise when he sees his mother go into crisis makes her return to the world of imagination to avoid suffering. Avoiding pain is the central theme of their entire family. This is the Horseman legacy.
Watched this show so many times, and for me, no amount of horror can top that scene with Joseph telling his daughter " you don't want to end up like your mother now" with the shadow of his lobotomized wife in the background, the scream and fire burning around him as if he's the devil himself. Goosebumps.
Every seasons episode before the finally is such a heart crusher man and every time I rewatch them it fucks me up emotionally for a good few days really speaks to how good the writing is for this show.
Though The View From Halfway Down and the Old Sugarman Place are masterpieces I like Time’s Arrow the best. Shows how times have changed and how good the writing is because they gave an irredeemably mean character such a tragic backstory and how they kind of redeemed her. Also Joseph Sugarman is the devil and one of the best villains in fiction
if it makes you feel worse, beatrice wouldn't be happy with either of both men, with butterscotch she had no choice since maybe joseph disowned her for running away with a loser rascal like him and she regret being a young mother because she wasn't psychologically prepared, plus the promise she made to honey of not loving bojack or butterscotch, beatrice is used to have servants so she made butterscotch work for her dad to hire henrietta which made joseph take out his frustrations with her beatrice hates butterscotch for not being manly enough for the situation and for cheating on her, and also hates henrietta but she would save her from the mistake she made of being a young mother, and so beatrice never told anyone she worked for her and never told bojack about her and hollyhock, also that beatrice never gave bojack in adoption or divorce butterscotch because her parents made her be afraid for losing people and to be weak, among her biggest fears is disobeying joseph and be lobotomized too, lucky for her, lobotomies became illegal when she became an adult if she married creamerman, beatrice would feel she can't escape joseph's grasp on her life and he's using her to have an advantage in the market, that is like the sultan making jasmine marry some entitled prince, but at least creamerman would be more comprehensive that his dad is also using him to improve business, but if things didn't worked out she could divorce creamerman after the merge is done
This whole theme reminds me of my grandmother and my relationship with her. She's a monster and I know, based on her messed up life story, why she is like that. But now she's out of chances and became a sociopath over time. I had to cut myself off for my own good. There's nothing fair about situations like this but the best thing you can do is make sure that you break the cycle, at least save yourself for the sake of next generation. Some people are just beyond salvation. :/ I wish something could be done to make things better but sometimes things are hopeless.
Was waiting for this. I am here for the existential trauma :) Edit: I'm sorry this episode made you sad, but onestly I'm low key relieved this show finally shook you enough to cry. I was kinda worried you never got emotional before, because I cried half of this show. The comic relief is there for a reason but, never forget this is real life for a lot of people. Bojack life.. Is relatable for someone. Edit 2: don't wanna drag you more into despair but... Beatrice never had vanilla icecream... She woke up when bojack asked how it tasted. Yep. This. Fucking. Show.
Detail: Beatrice horseman never had a single ice cream in her life because it is “inappropriate” according to her father. So when bojack asks can you taste the ice cream, it dragged Beatrice out of her imagination and at that moment she understands what’s going on. Yet she chose to go along with bojacks story. This is the one time that Beatrice actually showed some kind of love towards bojack in her entire life
3:06 Agreed 2000’s Requiem For a Dream is arguably the most grim dark and depressing film I’ve ever seen. Still a well made film though That impression of the theme you do at 3:15 is quite good too, a legendary piece of music that has been reused in films after Requiem as well PS I think they purposely used that screaming goat Meme sound effect at 9:01
It's haunting how much Beatrice reminds me of my own mother, who is also a narcissist. And just like Joseph, the family illness began with my maternal grandfather. Time's Arrow hit way too close to home, and that's what makes it both amazing and disturbing at the same time.
What makes the last scene even sadder is the fact that she's never tasted vanilla ice cream, because "it was for boys", and BoJack saying "Can you taste it?" breaks the illusion, making Beatrice doubt, and get confused instead of happy, as she cannot recall the vanilla ice cream flavor.
This show's visual storytelling is just fascinating...
I was wondering what that's about! Thanks for the explanation.
Also BoJack has a fridge full of lemons and sugar because it was filled with sweet things. Because Bea had never eaten sweets before, her mind filled in all of the sweet stuff with sugar and lemons.
That's so sad.
I remember connecting to that that's so sad man
Wait how do we know she's never had vanilla ice cream before? Earlier in season 4 episode 2 Beatrice's mom says that ice pops were for boys but later at the barn or whatever that was with the piano her mom let her have an ice pop
:(
remember when bojack said once his mother remembers him he’ll tell her off and say how much he hates her... and instead he takes pity and comforts her
Bojack Horseman will remain the same egotistical, self righteous, arrogant, idiotic, insecure piece of shit...I just want someone to beat him up and then send him to jail.
But hey that's just how I personally feel about Bojack.
Zero i honestly never thought he was THAT bad bc his friends were also annoying. Like anytime he would tell Diane off, he would be right bc she just tries to stand for everything and it makes me cringe
@@runrealityiscoming3427 I officially hated Diane in season 5. She is the fucking WORSE, for so many reasons.
@@Jeremy-jm3fe I wanna know those reasons
@@Jeremy-jm3fe If by fucking worse you mean having the best character arc in Season 5 then yeah she is the worse
The Rules of Watching a Season of Bojack
1. Dont trust episode 11.
2. Dont trust the penultimate episode.
3. Dont trust the episode between 10 and 12.
4. Don't trust the second to last episode.
5. Pay keen attention throughout episode 10 so you at least have some faint notion of how episode 11 is gonna wreck you and you're not totally blindsided.
6. Have your tissues around so you can cry and deal with all the soul crushing existencial crisis after watching ep 11.
7. Once you’ve finished episode 11, prepare yourself for the next episode 11
@@BroZilla-vh3tu The choking scene was so breathtaking
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**Pun intended**
Diamond Axe Studios Music true
Diamond Axe Studios Music
Here’s a episode to avoid.
S3 E11
"Can you taste the ice cream mom?"
"It's...delicious"
She wasn't allowed to have ice cream back then. She's letting him go free
She got ice cream right before her mother breakdown at the party by the barn.
@@Bleudesvents It was knocked to the floor before she got to taste it
@@Bilbo5334 No, you can see her taking a couple of licks. She doesn't seem like she is enjoying it, like it wasn't worth the price.
True. And it's clear he wants to give her some happiness since he might never see her again.
@@Bleudesvents she had a frezzeie pop
What a terrifying yet tasteful depiction of dementia, in that state time's arrow doesn't march forward at all
That episode was scarily accurate
Episode will break my heart every time I watch it 😔
@@ksmith9873 literally made me she tears
@@Gman224 me too
It’s really hurtful to the people around the person with dementia. The person isn’t suffering but I’m guessing the person you know is disappearing and them just becoming a shell is just heartbreaking
Fun fact: the opening of this entire season has had Bojack get trippy/drugged after drinking a sip of coffee, Beatrice's coffee package is even behind him on the counter. Foreshadowing is amazing in this show.
And in his inner monologue in the beginning of Stupid Piece of Shit, Bojack was worried to leave milk in case his mother "poisoned" Hollyhock. At the time he meant poisoned Hollyhocks personality or image of Bojack or something, but it forshadows what really happened
@Baykush Nice spoiler bro
@Baykush Thanks, I just a few episodes into season 5 and now I know a female character will get choked and it will be an important plot point. I hope karma gets you.
Also, Mr Peanutbutter sniffs the coffee cup when he's tracking Beatrice's scent...
@@bernardsoul5186 You do realize that there’s always going to be some spoilers in the comments, not just for this season, but the whole show?
"But it's fake."
"Well, it makes me feel better."
I just got done reliving THIS fucking episode. Why did you have to remind me of that shit?!
@@BarteNERDS Oh hey I recognize that handle! Man, I wish you had recorded your reactions to more than just the second half of the last season.
@@Steelburgh Me too, it’s my most popular series by far, but I had already watched the whole series lol
@@BarteNERDS Serious bummer, but then again I didn't record any of my reactions so who am I to complain? Maybe it's time to recruit a friend who's new to it and do a recorded rewatch!
Man that episode was like my emotions being suddenly punched and I burst out sobbing.
Speaking as someone who has a parent with now-advanced Alzheimer's, I can tell you that the scene where Beatrice kept asking Bojack about where she was; I have been there with my mother in the earlier stages of her condition. When she asked to go home, she wasn't talking about the house I grew up in, but the one she grew up in during the 40s and 50s; which was sold after my grandfather passed 20 years earlier. At first, just like Bojack was doing, you're trying to rationalize with them; telling this person "no, you're at your home now". Or she would be asking when Dad would be coming by; she wasn't talking about her husband (my father), but her late father. Her mind retreated back to when she was a child in the 50s. And again, at first you want to tell her "Ma, Grandad passed some time ago", but that doesn't help things and just gets her crying. So, again just like Bojack, you find the best way to handle that is to go along with the notion that these places/people are still relevant (so instead of reminding her that my grandfather had passed, I would tell her he might be coming soon or that I didn't nkow when).
So despite Beatrice being a horrible mother, she is still Bojack's mother; and so I can completely understand where he's coming from with what he did.
If you pay attention, you'll notice that the servants who are throwing her things in the fire also have their faces scribbled out like Henrietta's, because the pain of those two memories are connected.
I assumed it had to do with dementia and she had forgot their faces.
@@luna010 But most forgotten faces are blank
Rana's reaction at 15:00 is perfect. That was every girl watching this and thinking 'oh god what if I'd been the one growing up in that era with that father.' Mr. Sugarman is low-key threatening his little girl with a lobotomy if she doesn't keep a lid on her emotions.
That’s why she didn’t love Bojack,she was so scared to show emotions cause she thought she was going to be lobotomized and it sounds so scary to grow up during those times
4:10 That moment when you're like "oh shit, this episode is gonna be a masterpiece but it's also gonna completely destroy me, isnt it."
I was a crying mess after this episode.. stuff got too real. Like Rana said, I basically didn't know how to feel about Bojack's mom after this one. You get to really understand the complexity and empathize.
Beatrice is honestly my favorite character. Even though she is such a terrible person and treated Bojack terribly, learning about her life in this episode can make one pity her. She’s so dimensional and I love that about her.
@@jilliank6379and I feel the same about BoJack
I mean, the show doesn’t absolve her of her wrongdoings though, and imo it shouldn’t. The point of the show is to explain, not excuse. The way Beatrice treated her son isn’t right, even if she was unhappy, the same way bojack’s upbringing doesn’t justify the way he treats other people. I feel like the only person on this show that deserves forgiveness was Sarah Lynn, who has only hurt herself and not everyone else
@@anylove370 Well that’s the thing about reality, everyone wants a bad guy to blame for when things go wrong in the world, but no one decides to do wrong with sane mind, their experiences have either altered their way of thinking into an unhealthy one or they have some mental condition in the brain. It’s up to the person to recognize that their behavior is unhealthy and seek to change it.
Beatrice’s past doesn’t make her treatment of Bojack any better, but we need to stop finding a person to blame, that’s not the point of the show. The point is to show that abusive/toxic behavior is a cycle, and you are responsible for whether or not you decide to get better or if you will refuse to leave your comfort zone and allow yourself to be a toxic person.
Bojack realizes that his behavior is bad, but it’s not enough to acknowledge it if you do nothing with that knowledge.
i just finished the episode and i can’t stop crying. so powerful. one of the most emotionally intense show ever.
13:21 "Is that Hollyhock?"
*unanimous "No"*
Wow, you guys need to pay more attention to Rana. In many reactions, she tends to be more observant than you.
He says no to confuse, you can see how he laughs
@PersonaX he already watched whole season he knows everything but he just don't spoil things for other
Throughout wactching them, you can 100% tell that she's trying very hard to pay attention like, through everybody else talking and shit, her attention is always focused on the show rather than what her friends are talking about. She likes the material, she wants to absorb it wholly and hear what's being said.
I think Nahid has seen the show before already and wants to mislead them, and because the rest know he watched it they trust his word more
@@greentaigo2552 it’s suraj actually, but yeah
A big thing I've gotten from Bojack Horseman for myself and some family members is that past events and family history can be an EXPLANATION for actions but not an EXCUSE. It can explain why they think and act but it doesn't excuse it away. I know those two words for some can be one and the same but I've learned that they are two very different things. I had an emotionally abusive ex and so that explains my actions where I don't go out much more or get very reserved with the topic of close relationships but it doesn't excuse me getting better or not working towards getting better.
I'm on your same page
damn
YES! Thank you, I'm 4 years late, but thank you for saying this. I've been stuck in this weird limbo of people willingly or accidently confusing those 2 terms and expecting everybody else to do that too for way too long. I thought I was the odd one for not forgiving Beatrice her deeds, even though I now appreciate and understand her character better.
Some lines Beatrice said this season that make more sense now:
"Henrietta, you're not fit to be a mother!"
"You waste of my husband's jism!"
She also occasionally refers to Hollyhock as "the baby" when it seems like she's talking about the baby doll.
She also imeaditly recognized hollyhocks when she first meets
@@DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly yup "Oh, it's you"
You look just like him (Butterscotch, not BoJack)
And that's why she keeps on calling BoJack as Henrietta
@@aeron0828 That part doesn't ale much sense actually haha. Why Bojack in particular?
The fact that his mother says "You're Bojack Horseman, you were born broken." Makes it so much more powerful now.
She's talking about his entire legacy, they were all broken.
Hopefully Bojack and Hollyhock will break the cycle
Nah I don’t think Beatrice was born broken I think she was broken.
@@slushdog1012 by the man that was meant to protect her, no less.
It's crazy to me there are episodes like this and nobody is reacting to this show.
No one reacted to Breaking Bad either until The Normies started to very recently. Give it time and maybe other people will follow.
Barely anyone reacts to Bojack Horseman which I dont understand why
@@Jeremy-jm3fe no one reacts like them though.. Most reactors are morons
They're all too busy bandwagoning whatever the most popular recent anime is like the swarm of mindless leeches they are.
I really hope Blindwave starts watching this show.
yep guys, beatrice's mind is stuck in the past and the blank faces are people beatrice don't remember, the scratched ones are people she want to forget
She was calling Bojack Henrietta, not Hollyhock. Rewatching, I wondered if she just thought he was Henrietta because she was introduced to Hollyhock by Bojack as his daughter.
to be fair, Beatrice did promise.
"Beatrice? promise me you will never love anyone as much as I loved crackerjack"
"I promise!"
"well I've got half a mind...."
Bojack Horseman is the show that portrays mental health the best and most importantly in its most real form. I love this show, and man this episode was hard to revisit.
And the most important, it uses surreal humor to balance the subject matter so it doesn't get depressive all the time
This is why half of the characters are animals, this is why there are animal jokes and meta humor, and this is why this show is so great.
@@Zombiesnyder13 Agreed, and it makes the dark humor work much more
She doesn't know what ice cream tastes like. So when he asked her if she can taste the ice cream, she realizes he was lying to her...
That's the part that destroyed me the most when I watched it. Don't know why... maybe because I realized that Bojack tried to help her, do something nice for someone for once... and still fucked it up. It's not his fault, but... it doesnt make it better, does it?
I think she was too far gone to actually be aware of the lie.
Dementia's a bitch.
Maybe. But the way she lingered made me think she wanted to call him out on it before deciding to just let it go...
I thought that was a really nice moment actually. She becomes aware because she hasn’t had ice cream and realizes bojack is lying to try to make her feel better and comfort her and she decides to go with it for once and accept that bojack is being kind to her instead of berating him
@@tricksterhuaun No. She knew it was a lie, that's why she paused and frowned before answering him.
Also, when they showed the flashback with Bojack opening his fridge, it's full of lemons and sugar, because that was the only "dessert" she was allowed to consume.
This is one of the best episodes of the series. I love the way that the writers find unique ways to tell stories, especially the poignant ones.
Time's Arrow is the best one in the series. Free Churro is second best.
14:56 what he meant by " you don't want to end up like your mother now " he meant lobotomy. It's terrifying to put that into a child's head
Remember Bojack's mother was never allowed to eat Ice Cream. So when Bojack tries to make her imagine it you can tell she's faking because she doesn't know what it tastes like.
Cinema Gaming Ow, my heart.
Hollyhock has the diamond like bojack due to Butterscotch's grandma, when he told that to Beatrice it was most likely true.
This is probably my favourite episode of the show; the way the creators use the art style in this episode is so creative and clever, and the story it tells is so powerful.
I love Nahid. I love how pissed off he gets about aspects of society and goes off for a bit because of the devastating things shown in episodes like this. He often reins himself in and apologizes for feeling so strongly, but I really appreciate that kind of reaction because it's what these topics deserve.
This was a hard episode, man. I really love how the show makes you sympathize with Beatrice and understand her, but at the same time never excuses her for the way she treated her son. Same with Bea's father, who did what doctors told him was right for his wife and then suddenly found himself with a dead son, a young, frightened daughter, and a severely impaired wife (a truly tragic character in all this). He was doing what he thought you were supposed to do back then but at no point is he excused either. And Butterscotch. Was he just doing the best he could with what he had? Was Beatrice? Did they all just do the best they could and their best just ended up being awful? I don't know. This show is tough.
I think the reason the dad burned it all, was because she had been sick. So her things needed to be burned... (Could probably have been sanitized hatever it's called instead though.) It's crazy how things from when you are a kid is grown into your being forever. Some things, especially traumu just sticks, and never let go.
14:08 "I T ' S H O L L Y" **slams pillow into friend across the couch**
holy shit that was hilarious, I don't normally watch group reaction vids but that just fucking sold me lmao
What made that flashback where her dad threw her doll into the fire so horrible is that Bojack did the same to her new doll a couple episodes back...
Also one small detail I like with Joseph. Look at his ears when he says "You don't want to end up like your mother do you?" they look like devil horns.
Wasn't even watching the real episode... Here I am.. Crying like a little girl. This is art.
Burning the baby doll was straight out of the Velveteen Rabbit. She's even got scarlet fever, which is what the kid in the book had
"It tastes so....delicious" She pauses because she never had ice cream, because her dad said it would make her fat. She doesn't know what it tastes like.
It's a generational issue. You act how you are raised to act, and just so happens that people who are raised the old fashioned ways tend to act out the old fashioned ways when it comes to race or gender (as my woman who birthed me once said "Spots with spots, stripes with stripes", basically meaning "don't date/marry outside your race".. thank god I was raised by my grandparents on my father's side).
kids today are more rebellious and want to break those social norms and traditions
@@vaultshadow said every generation ever
"My woman who birthed me"
That's how you speak about your mother?
@@Jeremy-jm3fe
You mean the woman who used to pin my sister to the wall and beat the shit out of her because she talked back? The same woman who wouldn't hesitate to call you fat, tell you to stand up so "everyone can see how big you are".. *at your uncle's fucking funeral?*
Nah, man. That bitch is the woman who birthed me. My mother is my grandmother who adopted and loved me.
@@-Miasimon Why the hell are you scolding me for, it's not like I knew all of that. You could've just explained further in the first place.
My Grandma was almost a carbon copy of Beatrice. Being abusive and cruel to the People around her. When i was a Child i could not stand up to her, and when i was old enough Dementia had almost completely eradicated her Personality. At that point, she was only a scared old Women, and what is the point at being mean to someone in that situation anymore?
It's sad to see they loved each other, but their rushed parenting ruined their marriage...
but most importantly... they ruined their child
@[ EnElCypher ] they're commenting in english so everyone's in the same page
They were just in way over their heads and didn’t have the full mental maturity or preparedness to raise a child
That’s my opinion at least
8:36 love the faceless guy in the park trying to eat the picnic. The detail in this show!
I really like how this episode explained Beatrice’s past. It’s not meant to excuse the way she treated BoJack by any means. It doesn’t make her a “good” or even likeable character in the sense of good vs evil. But it does explain why she acted the way she did. She kept her promise to her mother, and never loved anyone as much as her mother loved Crackerjack.
Behold...
The darkest and most twisted episode of BoJack Horseman
Most twisted maybe, but the showstopper's indictment of hollywood culture is probably darker especially when you consider the real world implications. I won't get deeper into the reasons why until that reaction video though because there's too much to unpack to compare and analyze especially since anything if the sort would be extremely spoiler heavy
I have two hands and a neck that disagree
@@DumbIdeaPresentedStupidly What a funny story, Mark.
Because it was real
It was the first one I cried over.
11:44 If you notice, it says "Hollywoo"
But when she says "Hollywood", the D returns
EPIC
Bojack Horsemen has done a really interesting job showing generational trauma writing wise.
This episode and Free Churro cemented BoJack to me as undoubtedly one of the greatest shows of this generation. No, ever. It's all great. But some episodes hit so hard, it's like getting a bowling ball dropped on your chest. You want to laugh, and cry. And everything in between. It leaves you emotionally demolished, but so satisfied because of what kind of masterpiece you've just witnessed.
“ Beatrice remember we say about crying... crying is stupid! :D”
That is so haunting, and to say it to a little kid of all people makes my skin crawl...
My favorite episode of the whole series! It's about the cycle of hatred and resentment and what it does to everyone it comes in contact with. The whole episode explores how traumatized Beatrice really was and how those awful experiences with her father were passed down to Bojack through the way she raised him. The Hollyhock plot-twist was great too!
However, my favorite part of the episode is the end. Bojack, even after saying that he was going to give his mom all of that hate and resentment back, chooses to break the cycle of hate and give Beatrice the best thing he could have given her at that moment, a reality that she can tolerate from then on. This.... I find true beauty in this act. A beautiful moment that came to be despite ALL of the shit that surrounded it, despite the complete opposite being justified! That moment, ladies and gentlemen, is what i call true beauty.
She never knew how ice cream tasted. Her saying "delicious" is pretending to be still in the fantasy.
Props to Nahid for trying to keep that positive outlook. That's super important at any age.
"Here's your omelet. I'm sorry it's not as good as the omelets your secretary makes, but then, you're not married to your secretary are you?"
"Well, maybe if my secretary also refused to get an abortion, I would be."
- Beatrice and Butterscotch Horseman in Season 1 Episode 2
Their first lines in the series are about Butterscotch knocking up a woman who works for him. Years later, he does the same with Henrietta. The foreshadowing in this show is phenomenal.
(Minor vague spoilers, I think)
Bojack is, in a lot of ways, a story about how family trauma and disfunction is inherited. Beatrice went through so much shit as a young child and carried that resentment and agony and disappointment through her adulthood, compounded by having a disfucntional and bitter husband. She almost had no chance to "learn from what she went through" and be a better mother for Bojack because she had no support system to help her learn and heal from her own trauma. Even for the other characters-- Diane and her family and how she never felt like she belonged and they always made fun of her and belittled her for her intelligence (might make sense why she ends up falling for 'simple' happy men like Mr. Peanutbutter). Princess Carolyn also carries the weight of expectation in terms of motherhood and success-- her mother was a drunkard and always relied on her (making her anxious and workaholic). Mr. Peanutbutter is kind of the same, to an extent, with his life philosophy changing after his father's cancer-- life is just finding a series of distractions and then you die. We don't know much about Todd's backstory, but even with a side character like his girlfriend Yolanda-- she's harboring anxieties and shame about her asexuality because she came from a family of porn stars.
The reason why people react so well and so fiercely about this show is because it is relatable in all the hurtful, meaningful ways that real life is. Experiences with distant parents, or overbearing relatives, or unavailable partners. This is one of many episodes that really brings that point home. But no matter how dark the show can get, that final moment with Bojack and Beatrice gives us a bit of light. Remember, Bojack says that if his mother ever remembers him, he'll finally tell her "FUCK YOU" to her face. Instead he paints a nice picture for her and comforts her when she is confused and scared. Bojack can be the one to break the cycle. See you guys in Season 5!
Its really funny to see how this episode affect them, eventhough at the start they said stuff like: "I dont seeing this show getting THAT dark, its seems really kiddy".
Who in the world thinks that an adult cartoon is "kiddy"?
@@Jeremy-jm3fe I think he means they never thought the story would turn out to be so meaningful and dark with such complex characters because of how simple, light hearted and crude the first half of the first season was. I mean first watching it, it looked like it would be a family guy type of comedy show full of cutaway gags where nothing has consequences and everything goes back to normal by the end of the episode.
This was a tough episode, you guys deserve a FREE CHURRO
NOOOOO
Oh god
I won’t spoil anything, but despite the overall somber tone of the episode with only a few legit funny moments the ending is one of the show’s funniest
It's so painful to see how Beatrice's father used his wife to threaten his daughter, made her a cautionary tale to control Beatrice.
That last part wasn't actually real, but basically how Beatrice internalized it.
He never outright said "crying is stupid and you will be punished for your emotions", but that's ultimately what her father taught her along with society.
That ending scene where they're standing in the flames is basically the accumulation of every negative belief people threw at her
There at the end Beatrice is lying, she has no idea how ice-cream tastes like, since unlike sugar on a lemon, it's not a dessert for women. It's even sadder to think that part of her must know her mind is screwed and it's all in her head
one of the worst things is that Bojack will never know what his mother went through for all her life. I'm not saying he wouldn't forgive her but I think he would be a bit more in peace with his whole world if he knew
"Those fish do not like being canned." That was pretty funny.
And when they call Bojack a dumb baby and he replies, "I'm not a baby. I'm six. I'm speaking in full sentences."
The treatment Beatrice endured explains how she treated Bojack, but it doesn't excuse it. Exactly like how how she and Butterscotch treated Bojack as a child explains his behaviour, but doesn't excuse that either. You can feel sorry for both of them whilst still thinking that they could and should have done a lot better to not repeat their parents' mistakes.
Remember in the old sugarmans place she asked for ice cream and they said no that’s a boys snack a girls snack is like a lemon wedge or something. She finally got to taste it... (kinda)
Bojacks parents remind me of F. Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald. Scott was a struggling writer who met Zelda at a ball and their marriage was rocky and turbulent.
At least they were decent enough parents, according to their daughter “Scottie” (and contrary to many biographies)
Tears just spew out of my face at 14:38 the way she screams and cries. TRAUMA from childhood. It never leaves.. I know..
For clarification, Hollyhock is Bojack's half-sister on their (biological) father's side
"why i have half a mind"
Like mother like daughter.
Congratulations! You arrived to the greatest episode in Bojack history.
And this is considered the happiest season
BY WHO?!?
No it’s not lmao one can only say because of the finale
Because of BoJack not being a fucking idiot, but yeah, everyone else is just fucked
@@am3703 Well the finale is pretty happy
But this IS the happiest season, in terms of Bojack's story. Think of any other season, and you realize that Bojack is in a worse state in them.
The saddest thing is that Bojack unknowingly is behaving just like his father, who had Bojack's mother lobotomized when she had a seizure. Bojack likewise when he sees his mother go into crisis makes her return to the world of imagination to avoid suffering.
Avoiding pain is the central theme of their entire family. This is the Horseman legacy.
LOL, I just realized they used the screaming goat video for when the goat dude screamed xD
Watched this show so many times, and for me, no amount of horror can top that scene with Joseph telling his daughter " you don't want to end up like your mother now" with the shadow of his lobotomized wife in the background, the scream and fire burning around him as if he's the devil himself.
Goosebumps.
Every seasons episode before the finally is such a heart crusher man and every time I rewatch them it fucks me up emotionally for a good few days really speaks to how good the writing is for this show.
The words for this episode are "intergenerational trauma"
Though The View From Halfway Down and the Old Sugarman Place are masterpieces I like Time’s Arrow the best. Shows how times have changed and how good the writing is because they gave an irredeemably mean character such a tragic backstory and how they kind of redeemed her. Also Joseph Sugarman is the devil and one of the best villains in fiction
I agree. On a show full of all-time great episodes of television, this was the standout.
"And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun..."
if it makes you feel worse, beatrice wouldn't be happy with either of both men, with butterscotch she had no choice since maybe joseph disowned her for running away with a loser rascal like him and she regret being a young mother because she wasn't psychologically prepared, plus the promise she made to honey of not loving bojack or butterscotch, beatrice is used to have servants so she made butterscotch work for her dad to hire henrietta which made joseph take out his frustrations with her
beatrice hates butterscotch for not being manly enough for the situation and for cheating on her, and also hates henrietta but she would save her from the mistake she made of being a young mother, and so beatrice never told anyone she worked for her and never told bojack about her and hollyhock, also that beatrice never gave bojack in adoption or divorce butterscotch because her parents made her be afraid for losing people and to be weak, among her biggest fears is disobeying joseph and be lobotomized too, lucky for her, lobotomies became illegal when she became an adult
if she married creamerman, beatrice would feel she can't escape joseph's grasp on her life and he's using her to have an advantage in the market, that is like the sultan making jasmine marry some entitled prince, but at least creamerman would be more comprehensive that his dad is also using him to improve business, but if things didn't worked out she could divorce creamerman after the merge is done
What kind of person Beatrice was is what happens when you a person grow up with very little love and has tragic things with little love.
This whole theme reminds me of my grandmother and my relationship with her. She's a monster and I know, based on her messed up life story, why she is like that. But now she's out of chances and became a sociopath over time. I had to cut myself off for my own good. There's nothing fair about situations like this but the best thing you can do is make sure that you break the cycle, at least save yourself for the sake of next generation. Some people are just beyond salvation. :/ I wish something could be done to make things better but sometimes things are hopeless.
Great reaction as always guys. Was looking forward to this all week.
Fun fact Matthew Broderick voiced the dad and will arnett voiced bojack dad in this episode
That explains the Simba like voice from Joseph Sugarman
@@simonpetrikov3992 yep and that guy who plays hamilton in that hamilton musical plays the brother who went off to war
Thanks for reacting. Bojack is an amazing show.
This episode makes you realize that it *IS* possible to waste your entire life.
“This one’s gonna be dark”
She knows who Hollyhock was from the start. When they meet she says ' Oh, it's you! ' And then talks about excusing Henrietta.
Welcome to Bojack horseman: here is the cycle of abuse, try and break it
Was waiting for this. I am here for the existential trauma :)
Edit: I'm sorry this episode made you sad, but onestly I'm low key relieved this show finally shook you enough to cry. I was kinda worried you never got emotional before, because I cried half of this show. The comic relief is there for a reason but, never forget this is real life for a lot of people. Bojack life.. Is relatable for someone.
Edit 2: don't wanna drag you more into despair but... Beatrice never had vanilla icecream... She woke up when bojack asked how it tasted. Yep. This. Fucking. Show.
Detail: Beatrice horseman never had a single ice cream in her life because it is “inappropriate” according to her father. So when bojack asks can you taste the ice cream, it dragged Beatrice out of her imagination and at that moment she understands what’s going on. Yet she chose to go along with bojacks story. This is the one time that Beatrice actually showed some kind of love towards bojack in her entire life
This episode was pure pain...
Love how time being a parralel with an arrow being shot... It will keep falling towards the end. Until it plummets to the ground.
Remember what we said about crying
“Crying is stupid.”
I don’t know what it is about Joseph Sugarman but he scares me so much
That sudden realization that she isn’t faking it
3:06 Agreed
2000’s Requiem For a Dream is arguably the most grim dark and depressing film I’ve ever seen. Still a well made film though
That impression of the theme you do at 3:15 is quite good too, a legendary piece of music that has been reused in films after Requiem as well
PS I think they purposely used that screaming goat Meme sound effect at 9:01
This episode f*cked me up, man. Bojack is a pretty heavy show. This one made me cry.
Why did i cry again watching this 😭😭😭
It's haunting how much Beatrice reminds me of my own mother, who is also a narcissist. And just like Joseph, the family illness began with my maternal grandfather. Time's Arrow hit way too close to home, and that's what makes it both amazing and disturbing at the same time.
Oh man I was so emotional during this ep, such a good one!
I love how Rana pieces everything together on 12:49 way before anybody else even considers it
This episode feels like a bad acid trip
Man the ending of this episode breaks me. Such a good episode,but also a really rough one to go through. Lol
Ever since I started watching you guys watch it, I have been anticipating this episode... This is gonna be good.
7:28 I see you
"Wait... ICU"
season 5 foreshadowing????
She didn't say that.
"We're going to a magical place"
"Tahiti"
Now this guy has a *plan*