Great build....your videos are the best! You always give context and excellent details, which are often missing from other providers - thanks for all your hard work!!
Was also working on celestial thief right now. I ended up with Sword/Dagger and SB going pretty condi-heavy. This looks interesting, I'll give it a try.
I play this build in WvW with Thieves guild ulti. for 1v1s in roaming it just makes the enemy think about so many more things than your rhythmic DPS (BP-dodge-Stealth attack) is broken by constant harass of the squad :) Also popping smoke screen for 7 seconds while 3 thieves pressure you and one more is nigh untouchable is very strong.
Is this useless cause it's only used for trolling!? Bro trolling is the best reason for a build...you should do an entire troll build series 😂😂😂...well done man.
I played bound p/p SA in 2v2s during the miniseason! Not this well, but I did it lol. …Man, I should really play more wvw, you can do so much more build and gear-wise.
Hi, sorry but I don't get how you can heal with a Smoke Screen (or Black Powder) + Dagger Storm ? The combo is adding blindness, not lifesteal. So how does it work ? Is it due to some trait ?
@@diylobotomy13 I couldn't really say, I haven't played unload spam all that much. I'm not a thief main by any means. I would describe it as feeling very... "tempo" based maybe? You sneak attack pew pew, wait for revealed to run out, drop smoke, dodge, repeat. You can use the stealth to reposition a bit or stall, but I think I spend more of the fight revealed than in stealth. It's a bit grindy, you're not going to be killing anyone before they get their heal off, but your burst/dps outpaces their defenses over time.
I've reverted to using the bounding dodge on my d/p for some time now. I've been running essentially the same build, albeit with Marauder/Assassin mix, and with Hidden Thief instead of Shadow's Embrace. It's more fun imo than running unhindered combat because of the stealth uptime and sustain through venoms.
Haha! It's really happening. I said when that patch came out, "ANET basically wants everyone to use celestial. It's obvious they want it to be endgame gear." Then, recently, they changed LVL 80 boost to give celestial gear. 😅 When I tried celestial on Thief, I did it on D/D, but it was basically only for PVE. I did your vid's build on Rampager's before.
i mean celestial KINDA works with every class but not really. this thief build although it kinda works ( again not really) it's nowhere close to the D/P S/D ovepowered thief. So i don't see how celestial is a problem. It's really strong in a couple of class, in most of the classes it's meh okay and in some classes its even bellow average compared to their other builds. So i don't see how celestial is a problem..
Agreed...okay power damage, okay condi, okay heals...not a master of anything in particular. If Cele was a problem, you'd think after years of data Anet wouldn't have added concentration and expertise to it.
@@Fxst4r I've been running Vallun's Cele Herald and Cele Renegade builds in solo and small scale, and there's not enough front-loaded damage to help against builds that have a much better burst. Survivability isn't on par with Trailblazer, either, and lacking that requires more DPS up front. I love the Renegade playstyle, so I'm still running it, but might experiment with more Trailblazer pieces. There is a breakeven point before one point of Expertise equals one point of Condi Damage, and Cele stats don't give you enough Condi to reach that, so the extra Expertise from Cele isn't as effective as extra Condi would be. We've also experimented with Cele Firebrands to get a blend of heals and DPS for small scale, but in the end preferred having one FB specialize in heals and another in burns.
@@Fxst4r i actually do roam with the core celestial longbow warrior ( not the garbage spellbreaker one) and in my experience based on my own gameplay and the opponents i encountered are : the GOOD celestial build that can even be considered broken are ( in that order ) weaver, mirage, core necro. The rest falls into the "meh category or to the bellow average category ( like the thief this video showed). Guardian celestial can also work but honestly guardian has so many GOOD builds going on for him , so i don't get the chance to fight cele guardians that much... i usually find the core power and the trapper dragonhunter guardians. Engineer can work, the might synergy is there but again, people will always prefer the motar/grenade spam with power... not enough data on this one as well, i think i've found it a couple of times but it caused me no problems. The ranger though is the most problematic for me becouse i actually tried it and i tried to make it work SO HARD and yet i failed. And i don't understand why it doesn't work at least for me, everything that u need with a celestial build, the ranger have... and yet it simply didn't work.. in theory it sounded REALLY good maybe even on par with the weaver /mirage, but in actual fighting it just.. didn't do anything... I found myself in disanvantage in the fights, disanvantage that i could avoid if i had the good old GS/longbow power build ( OP OP)... Same thing applied to the revenant one.. it felt like it would work but everytime i find it, it's free food..and on this case, i actually found A LOT of them..so i do have some data on that even though i didn't play it myself ( i will in the future). Did all the enemies sucked? maybe.. but that's MY experience. Honestly in my opinion the only TRULY op celestial build is the weaver one.. i'll add the mirage one as well but it's behind weaver for sure. The rest are decent or worse. So, i'll stick to my case that celestial doesn't cause a noticable problem, especially if u add the fact that roaming is like what? 0.5% percent of the GW2 population?
@@Fxst4r well the 0.5% is an extreme exaggeration , my point was that the roaming community is REALLY REALLY low. Also the vast majority of this roaming community is basically a bunch of D/P perma stealth thiefs clowning around. But yea even less people run good builds. I am not sure how much vulture stance will help tbh, and even if it does.. i still think that ranger has multiple builds that are better than cele. with the rest i agree naturally.
Great build....your videos are the best! You always give context and excellent details, which are often missing from other providers - thanks for all your hard work!!
I really love your theory craft videos. Keep up the great work!!
yes please me too
finally some love on p/p teef! love this one vallun :D
Thanks for making me want to play wvw. Keep them coming please.
Oh my god, it all makes sense now - so this is the reason why i keep getting harassed by PP thieves in WvW
Very intriguing build.
Was also working on celestial thief right now. I ended up with Sword/Dagger and SB going pretty condi-heavy. This looks interesting, I'll give it a try.
this is actually insane theory crafting
P/P content? well, time to log in! :P
I play this build in WvW with Thieves guild ulti. for 1v1s in roaming it just makes the enemy think about so many more things than your rhythmic DPS (BP-dodge-Stealth attack) is broken by constant harass of the squad :)
Also popping smoke screen for 7 seconds while 3 thieves pressure you and one more is nigh untouchable is very strong.
is that DOS2 music? :)
Is this useless cause it's only used for trolling!? Bro trolling is the best reason for a build...you should do an entire troll build series 😂😂😂...well done man.
I played bound p/p SA in 2v2s during the miniseason! Not this well, but I did it lol.
…Man, I should really play more wvw, you can do so much more build and gear-wise.
Finally celesital for thief too... lol nice XD
Hi, sorry but I don't get how you can heal with a Smoke Screen (or Black Powder) + Dagger Storm ? The combo is adding blindness, not lifesteal. So how does it work ? Is it due to some trait ?
yes a trait in shadow arts cloaked in shadow
@@Vallun Thank you so much :)
I've been using the p/p bound combo with marauders armor as a power build for a while now, maybe I'll try using a celestial set on it.
How does it compare to unload spam?
@@diylobotomy13 I couldn't really say, I haven't played unload spam all that much. I'm not a thief main by any means. I would describe it as feeling very... "tempo" based maybe? You sneak attack pew pew, wait for revealed to run out, drop smoke, dodge, repeat. You can use the stealth to reposition a bit or stall, but I think I spend more of the fight revealed than in stealth. It's a bit grindy, you're not going to be killing anyone before they get their heal off, but your burst/dps outpaces their defenses over time.
does this build still work?
Hey Vallun, does this type of build have any potential or viability around the the gold 3/plat 1 in spvp?
yes
@@Vallun if i use this build in PVP , which amulet i should choose
@@bloodyqqtt6550 carrion
That's one crazy thief build lol. Well done!
Really hope for some equally crazy celestial ele build soon ^^
he has cele tempest and weaver WvW vids out already. Pretty recent.
Didn't find any in the ele playlist, will give it one more try. Thanks :)
@@eldrevo Here's the celestial weaver build th-cam.com/video/eskjRM1wj4c/w-d-xo.html
And here's the celestial tempest build th-cam.com/video/mr4V32M-3L8/w-d-xo.html
Cheers :)
Found em, thank you!
Hey @vallun is this build stop viable in 2024 with the runes and Sigils etc
How is the build now with the newest updates
what if we can't get the runes? Is there a good alternative to aristocracy?
Looks like a fun one! How good is it against reasonnably good players?
I've reverted to using the bounding dodge on my d/p for some time now. I've been running essentially the same build, albeit with Marauder/Assassin mix, and with Hidden Thief instead of Shadow's Embrace.
It's more fun imo than running unhindered combat because of the stealth uptime and sustain through venoms.
is this build still viable in todays patch
been using it, its viable still, there's the acrobatycs variant too for more sustain
nasty! 😎
Great vid as always! Any other viable rune if one doesn't have the dungeon currency for Aristocracy?
Is see the build has changed completely on the site ? Which one should i use
the site is easier to update so use that
i was thinking to go with a dd or core cele thief. but for weapons i would go dagger dagger and sword pistol
we demand a troll build serie!
Kinda half of what he does already
can i play this in pvp too? this looks so fun
how do u heal forward, it only does back ward
check my video "how to aboutface"
@@Vallun thx man,
Haha! It's really happening. I said when that patch came out, "ANET basically wants everyone to use celestial. It's obvious they want it to be endgame gear." Then, recently, they changed LVL 80 boost to give celestial gear. 😅
When I tried celestial on Thief, I did it on D/D, but it was basically only for PVE. I did your vid's build on Rampager's before.
And yet, Vallun made a Forums post toa dvocate against Celestial Gear and to actually nerf it.....
@@Tzitzemine Peculiar, isn't it? 😅
yes i advocate to nerf something that i think is busted regardless of whether i play it or not
That's because Vallun is a man of integrity! =)
i like fireworks runes better, the movespeed is always helpful and can't go wrong with 6 seconds of might, fury, and vigor
omg are you in TC or HoD!? this was the match up last week!
Sigil of ruthlessness is very bad compared to sigil of strength especially when u are playing a freecasting build. Try it.
its not really freecasting, its quite burst oriented
what is your outfit? I like the pants and shirt
I don't think this is the worst thief build to ever exist.
Ran into this build yesterday while on my glass core hammer guardian. rekt it!
I mean.. you're guardian, the most hand holding class in the game
nice build and creative thinking but this just proves how degen shadow arts really is
this isnt even using the most degen parts of shadow arts technically lolol
i mean celestial KINDA works with every class but not really.
this thief build although it kinda works ( again not really) it's nowhere close to the D/P S/D ovepowered thief.
So i don't see how celestial is a problem.
It's really strong in a couple of class, in most of the classes it's meh okay and in some classes its even bellow average compared to their other builds.
So i don't see how celestial is a problem..
It looks like it allows for more builds like this, so it's a good thing for the game in my eyes.
Agreed...okay power damage, okay condi, okay heals...not a master of anything in particular. If Cele was a problem, you'd think after years of data Anet wouldn't have added concentration and expertise to it.
@@Fxst4r I've been running Vallun's Cele Herald and Cele Renegade builds in solo and small scale, and there's not enough front-loaded damage to help against builds that have a much better burst. Survivability isn't on par with Trailblazer, either, and lacking that requires more DPS up front. I love the Renegade playstyle, so I'm still running it, but might experiment with more Trailblazer pieces. There is a breakeven point before one point of Expertise equals one point of Condi Damage, and Cele stats don't give you enough Condi to reach that, so the extra Expertise from Cele isn't as effective as extra Condi would be. We've also experimented with Cele Firebrands to get a blend of heals and DPS for small scale, but in the end preferred having one FB specialize in heals and another in burns.
@@Fxst4r i actually do roam with the core celestial longbow warrior ( not the garbage spellbreaker one) and in my experience based on my own gameplay and the opponents i encountered are :
the GOOD celestial build that can even be considered broken are ( in that order ) weaver, mirage, core necro.
The rest falls into the "meh category or to the bellow average category ( like the thief this video showed).
Guardian celestial can also work but honestly guardian has so many GOOD builds going on for him , so i don't get the chance to fight cele guardians that much... i usually find the core power and the trapper dragonhunter guardians.
Engineer can work, the might synergy is there but again, people will always prefer the motar/grenade spam with power... not enough data on this one as well, i think i've found it a couple of times but it caused me no problems.
The ranger though is the most problematic for me becouse i actually tried it and i tried to make it work SO HARD and yet i failed.
And i don't understand why it doesn't work at least for me, everything that u need with a celestial build, the ranger have... and yet it simply didn't work.. in theory it sounded REALLY good maybe even on par with the weaver /mirage, but in actual fighting it just.. didn't do anything...
I found myself in disanvantage in the fights, disanvantage that i could avoid if i had the good old GS/longbow power build ( OP OP)...
Same thing applied to the revenant one.. it felt like it would work but everytime i find it, it's free food..and on this case, i actually found A LOT of them..so i do have some data on that even though i didn't play it myself ( i will in the future).
Did all the enemies sucked? maybe.. but that's MY experience.
Honestly in my opinion the only TRULY op celestial build is the weaver one.. i'll add the mirage one as well but it's behind weaver for sure.
The rest are decent or worse.
So, i'll stick to my case that celestial doesn't cause a noticable problem, especially if u add the fact that roaming is like what? 0.5% percent of the GW2 population?
@@Fxst4r well the 0.5% is an extreme exaggeration , my point was that the roaming community is REALLY REALLY low.
Also the vast majority of this roaming community is basically a bunch of D/P perma stealth thiefs clowning around.
But yea even less people run good builds.
I am not sure how much vulture stance will help tbh, and even if it does.. i still think that ranger has multiple builds that are better than cele.
with the rest i agree naturally.
Oh no..
1 pulse for second is fine, there are worse aoe fields lol.
Most disgraceful build on thief
Celestial should be deleted.