If you're ever in the mood to learn a bit more about Operation Market Garden there's a great feature film called A Bridge Too Far that covers the events from multiple points of view. It's directed by Richard Attenborough and has an absolutely bonkers cast, including Michael Caine, Sean Connery, Anthony Hopkins, Laurence Olivier, Robert Redford, Elliot Gould, Maximillian Schell, James Caan, Ryan O'Neal and Gene Hackman.
And you could say it is the spiritual sequel to "The Longest Day", which is about D-Day, and told in a very similar way to this one. I'm wondering if there's another one that could work as an "end to the trilogy".
Jacqui, first time I watched band of Brothers I was so young, I never understood it all. This episode in particular affected my mum and dad, i remember watching with them. I now know why as I'm older. My grandparents were in occupied Netherlands. My dad's mum remembered market garden, hiding in the cellar when the planes came over. She was young but remembered it til her last days. As a grandchild of people who went through the occupation and liberation this hit me hard. The Dutch have a special love for the liberators even now. I'm heading there to see my family in month (I grew up in New zealand). I will stop at the war cemetery near where my parents grew up, and take a moment to thank those young guys who fought for us. Thanks for the film breakdown. Never thought to look at the series in an artistic way.
If you are going to the cemetery near Margraten, please look up the grave of Richard Earl Mason. I was named for him, different last name. He was my father's cousin. They signed up for the army together in 1944 when they finished high school. They went to different training camps and never saw each other again.
Thank you for sharing your family's story. I'm an infantry paratrooper with the 1-501st PIR. My unit traces its lineage to those men depicted in Band of Brothers. We send a handful of lucky paratroopers to Normandy every year on June 6th to participate in the commemorative Normandy jumps. There's also a large plaque/statue of my unit's Geronimo crest in Eerde. I hope to visit it one day.
You may have gotten the wrong impression about the German soldiers Easy company encountered in Holland. Just before the Mission started, the Germans moved an entire elite Panzer Division into the area just by chance. The Germans were supposed to use that area of Holland for rest and refitting and the 101st and 82nd Airborne jumped right into them. That's why the British had such a hard time and casulaties. Hardly "kids and old men."
It's also why Winters makes the sarcastic comment about kids and old men again because the intelligence failed them on that mission (just expanding on what you said for her info, not taking shot at you)
9th SS and 10th SS Panzer Spring of 1944 the 9th was involved in heavy fighting in the East, then sent straight into Normandy and was recovering from the Falaise Pocket. 10th went from fighting in the East, to Caen, and was sent to join the 9th in the same area. 9th and 10th SS Panzer were resting, recovering, and being refitted with new tanks, including the Tiger 2.
@@Shutterbug5269 Monty liked overwhelming with numbers. Patton knew everything came with costs, and he was willing to pay it. Patton knew that if he kept the pressure up then it would keep the krauts off balance.
Winter's was being ironic when he said "children and old men" as they were retreating. Those were some of Germany's best units that they were fighting. It was bad intelligence.
It wasn't. The German opposition was known about and the operation was compromised at Nijmegen on the first day, imposing a fatal delay on the advance to Arnhem.
@@Sturm01- Montgomery cancelled COMET at the last minute (troops were boarding their aircraft) on 10 September as soon as he received reports II.SS-Panzerkorps had moved into the Arnhem area and drew up an outline for the upgraded airborne operation MARKET with three divisions instead of one. Disregarding intelligence is a myth generated by A Bridge Too Far (1974). The failure to secure the undefended Nijmegen highway bridge by the 508th PIR in the first hours after landing, as Gavin had instructed, allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move in and reinforce the bridges. Cornelius Ryan failed to investigate this and more recent research has exposed the real story. Sources: Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011) September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012) Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012) Little Sense Of Urgency - an operation Market Garden fact book, RG Poulussen (2014) Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
@Sturm01 Myth. Montgomery expanded the operation and more than doubled the paratroop numbers after reports of more German forces. The original plan was just the British and Polish paras. Operation Comet. This was expanded into Operation Market Garden with the addition of the two American airborne divisions. British 1st Airborne had the intel that "a battle scarred panzer division or two" was in the area refitting. That's why they took along over 50 anti tank guns, far more than the Germans had tanks there. No intelligence was ignored by Montgomery. Listen to DaveMAC. He knows what he is talking about.
For someone watching this show for the first time, I am so impressed with your insight and intelligent observations. For instance, picking up the theme of "loss of innocence," to include "replacements" as well as civilians, is just so spot on. (In contrast, consider the little boy, deprived of an innocent life, having his first taste of chocolate. Read broadly, it's a symbolic depiction of a return-to-normalcy that the allied forces are fighting for.) You point out filming techniques and methods that I have never studied, but you are also so perceptive about narrative devices. I can't wait to see what you share with us next! Keep up the great work.
I echo all those sentiments - these have been the most intelligent reactions I have found to date. I'm enjoying these immensely AND learning things I never knew. Thank you Jacqui !!
3:30 The ironic thing about Cobb is that he was one of the few combat veterans Easy Company had before Normandy. He fought in North Africa during Operation Torch.
And on the way from Africa he survived having his ship sank by a U-Boat. He did not jump into Normandy because he took a piece of shrapnel through his leg that put him in the hospital for a month.
I've been wondering about Cobb. I know this show has taken a few liberties with some of the characters, but I was wondering if Cobb was really anywhere near as big of a pr*ck that this show makes him out to be.
@@bujin1977 He was court martialed for assaulting Foley. Col. Sink even told Foley he should have shot Cobb. Though in Webster's memoirs he recalls Cobb being good natured.
Greetings from The Netherlands. The woman who were so degrated slept with Germans or were collaborators who betrayed the resistance, jews etc. Not only the woman but also the men were 'taken care of' this way. I understand how you feel and we aren't proud of it either, but you have to understand the pure hatred the Dutch people had for Germans and those traitors at the time. 4 or 5 years of brutal occupation does that to you. My grandfather was ordered to work for the Germans (Arbeitseinzats) but he went into hiding. He was betrayed by a Dutchman he knew from before the war. They send him to a concentration camp (KZ) to do forced labour in Kiel, Germany. He survived many bombing raids from the allies but he always hoped they would hit the factory he worked in. They did'nt. When he made a big mistake, he was send to KZ Neuengamme as a penalty. The atrocities he saw and suffering he went through, stayed with him for the rest of his life. He never told me what happened in Neuengamme, only that he was always hungry and sick. But till the day he died, he could'nt go to the market on Saturday. He lived in a city near Germany and on Saturday many Germans went to this market. All those german voices brought him back to Neuengamme. I studied what happened there and I think episode 9 will help you understand this a little bit more. The man who betrayed him did many more things for the Germans. After 5 years in prison he was released. My granddad saw him in the street one day and beat the sh*'t out of him. My granddad lost his job because of that, but another company understood him and hired him after he payed a fine to the police.
Not just the Dutch, many people hated the Germans. The Eastern front was the closest humanity came to literal hell on earth. In Yugoslavia it wasn't much different. 1.7 million Yugoslavs died in ww2. Thats MORE than all of US, UK and Italy COMBINED.
One way to look at the scene when Bull looks over to the woman as he has just stabbed the German in the face/head repeatedly, is that she, a woman...a civilian...pulls him back into humanity.
For anyone who doesn't know the history Norman Dike leads a defence during Market Garden whilst totally surrounded and got his medals for it and actually goes out and personally drags two men to safety. He is very hard done by in the book and show because it's likely he is suffering the same sort of issue that Buck is by the time we get to Bastogne but because people didn't really know him they didn't realise his behaviour was so out of character. Both Buck and Norman came out very different to the men they were when they went in to Market Garden. This is also the point where people watching start to realise Spiers might actually be right with his pragmatic philosophy to war.
Dike is an interesting case, he was very clearly good in Holland, and yet, the men of Easy still called him 'Foxhole Norman', so he was not well like by them, there must be more to the story.
It was a combination of things. Personality clash, social class, and being the new commander out side the company. Winters was their man. Been with them sense the beginning and lead them through 3 major campaigns. Heyliger was also part of Easy from the start, then transfers to HQ company. Heyliger was from Concord Massachusetts. I think the men liked him just fin because of their history together, and he fit in social class wise with men like Winters, Lipton, Popeye, Bull, and Bill. A little bit of speculation on my part of course. With Moose being shot, Easy lost another known CO in a very short time span. I think this contributed to Dyke's difficulty in Easy company.
@@marinesinspace6253 Oh for sure. It's actually easy even in the show to draw parallels to Buck's behaviour and given the events of Market Garden and the subsequent deterioration of Buck it's likely we were seeing the same thing happening with Dike - the difference was they didn't know it was odd behaviour for Dike - they just thought that was what he was like. What is also omitted is he won a Bronze Star at Bastogne for personally dragging 3 men to safety. He wasn't a coward or particularly incompetent throughout his life but during his time with Easy Company he was acting very for want of a better word "spacey" and it gels with the sort of mental issues Buck was also experiencing.
9:20 A little historical context here: The scene where the Lt. is getting shot in the neck (Lt. Robert Brewer) is a real event that took place. According to an interview with Major Winters, on more than one occasion he warned Lt. Brewer about going out too far in front of his men and presenting himself as an obvious target. Apparently, Lt. Brewer didn't heed Winters' repeated warnings.😕
James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender met during the pre-filming "boot camp" Cpt. Dale Dye (the series' military advisor and the actor playing Col. Bob Sink) put the actors through and became the best friends they are today.
6:08: "Quite a contrast to the last jump." On D-Day the paratroopers jumped at midnight hoping to use the cover of darkness for surprise. But the darkness made it so difficult for units to get oriented and organized that they didn't accomplish much until the morning, so for the rest of the war the paratroops just jumped at dawn and it worked much better.
While the confusion kept many of the units from getting to their objectives on a timely manner, it also cause problems with the germans. They were getting reports of paratroop concentrations all over the place and they couldn't make any sense of it.
I've seen dozens of reactions to Band of Brothers, but your keen insight on cinematography and themes is very refreshing. You're doing great, and I can't wait for the next episodes.
JACQUI, I don't know if anyone has made you aware of this little fun fact but at the 7:25 mark, the old man sitting in the foreground is the real live Babe Heffron!!🎉🎉❤ They gave him a cameo and what better guy to give it to?!!!😅 So glad that some of these guys were STILL ALIVE to see this show when it was released originally!!!
Couple tidbits. "You wont be able to shoot as straight" comes from the fact a barrel has whip to it (like a baseball bat in slow mo). When it heats up, the weight of the bayonette can make the barrel bend (microscopicly) and make it less accurate. When they enter the town, you see the officers turn their collars inside out. That's in case any snipers are looking for officers. Lastly, this episode, along with episode 7 demonstrates how important front line enlisted leaders are.
An unfortunate part of war that we don't talk about, is how easy it is for us to turn on our neighbors. no group exemplified this more then the Dutch during WW2. every time the country changed hands, there was always a substantial group of people being willing to inform on, shame, and murder those around them. whole communities were destroyed by this inter-personal violence. the reasons ranged from "trying to survive" under Nazi occupation, to vengeance, all the way to pure sadistic pleasure at being able to get away with such evil acts. there is no greater demonstration of humanity, than when it goes to war. we see the absolute best and the absolute worst we can do for and to one another. the highest virtues, and the lowliest sins.
Excellent analysis throughout! Most enjoyable reaction to BoB I've seen. You pick up on nuances most reactors don't catch, and so far you are spot-on. 👍👍
I’m enjoying your reactions to this amazing series! The scene that bothers me the most in Episode 4 was the poor woman holding the baby, alone, ostracized, outside the town. She was shunned because she gave birth to a child produced by a German soldier. I always consider the real possibility that the child was created without her permission, it was “forced” upon her. So, 1st she has to deal with being r*ped (possibly), she gives birth in a war zone, then she is essentially “thrown in the trash” and left to survive on her own, if possible. The thought that this most-likely occurred many, many times is crushing. Keep up the great work!
The single best commentary & analysis of episode four I’ve seen yet. Jacqui, you bring such an insight that is not only refreshing but intriguing. The way you correlated the innocence of the civilians, the fresh & inexperienced replacements & the unfortunate failure of Market Garden was unique. I’d never thought of it that way. Thank you, looking forward to episode five.
Yes, for several of these actors being in this production was a big break early in their careers. Some became pretty big stars, others have become established character actors or have taken their careers in quite different directions.
@@fast_richardHardy was still in film school when cast for BoB. It got him noticed and likely led to his role in Blackhawk Down. James McAvoy & Michael Fassbender got noticed but needed a few more years to break out.
My grandfather was a replacement but in the Korean War. He was a replacement for the men who fought in the Chosin reservoir, and he said those men were INCREDIBLY tough for the shit they just went through. Cobb was eventually discharged from the army with a dishonorable discharge for hitting a commanding officer. He was a bit of a dick. Colonel sink told the commanding officer he should’ve shot Cobb instead of court martialing him. It would’ve been easier. 9:26 the Lt that was shot eventually went to go work for the CIA. One of the easy company members who saw him got shot didn’t know he survived getting shot. The easy company member eventually ran into him in the pentagon or some other government building and it freaked him the fuck out lol
Hey Jaquie! I'm a Grip/Gaffer and I really appreciated you mentioning the lighting choices and their use of shadows. I feel like so many of the DPs I work with are a bit scared of using darkness to their advantage. They want the whole shot properly exposed and it KILLS me because there is such power in darkness if it's used right.
Notice you saw less of Winters. This episode was meant to focus on the non-commissioned officers, the sergeants. They are the first-line leaders and trainers running the small fire teams and day-to-day business, the foremen to the officer's role of managers. If you address a sergeant as "sir", the normal response is, "don't call me sir, I work for a living."
Little known fact though. Market Garden was actually the fastest allied advance against German opposition in the entire September 1944 to February 1945 period. It took nearly 100km of German held ground in just 3 days and though the final objective of Arnhem wasn't obtained, it did better than the Hurtgen Forest and Lorraine campaigns at the same time.
They captured 100km of dikes... A typical example of land captured that did not do anything for the army. The Arnheim campaign cost thousands of soldiers their life - and nothing was won with it. Who cares about how fast it was?
Great analysis. Something i really liked about this battle is how it starts with almost (idk) 1 or 2 minutes of pure tactic movement from cover to cover by the soldiers, without music, without heroic Hollywood cliches. Just them advancing carefully, realisticly. But then it's also interesting how it develops and ends. As you said, you don't need to see a pile of dead bodies nor apocalyptic amounts of destruction to portray a defeat. You see the soldiers constantly losing ground and ending up in a "organized" retreat. They aren't all massacred; they don't flee like a crazy mob, or like in the climax of a Star Wars great escape; they just keep moving backwards into cover until they get in the trucks and leave. It's a realistic thing that we're not used to see in films. 09:36 Also, another detail i liked is when one of the replacements (Hashey) runs past the liutenant that was shot at the very beggining, and watches him bleed in slow mo, with a subjective sound design. I think it's implicit that the liutenant was a reeplacement as well (because there were also officers between the reemplacements). So, when Hashey sees this reeplacement bleeding, he's also seeing what could happen to himself, because of his lack of experience.
Market Garden was a failure due to the fact that it was high risk, but also because it was Montgomery’s plan and Monty didn’t get on with Eisenhower. It was also a complete stretch of resources to go roughly a hundred miles+ to capture as many of the Rhine bridges as possible. The intel was wrong too as the Children and Old Men tag given to the German troops. There were many Panzer Divisions retreating to Germany. The children and old men were mainly on the German side of the Rhine defending their Homeland. With regards to the treatment of collaborators, this was the harsh reality of what the women had to do to survive. On the island of Jersey, these women were called “Jerrybags” as they virtually had to prostitute themselves for a meagre amount of food. When the Germans finally retreated from the Channel Islands there were NO dogs or cats left on Jersey and rats were fast becoming the next target for protein. When the war ended, there was such deprivation in Holland that a famine was declared. People were actually dying of hunger. Such is the way of war and the fallout that ensues afterwards.
Montgomery didn't plan it, so please blame the planning on the people who actually planned it - Brereton at 1st Allied Airborne Army, and Gavin of 82nd Airborne Division compromised his own divisional plan at Nijmegen by dismissing a British request to drop a battalion north of the bridge, which was only guarded by a non-commissioned officer and seventeen men according to the local Dutch resistance leader. The 'young boys and old men' referred to specific units at Arnhem that I bet you can't even name (SS-Panzergrenadier-Ausbildungs-und-Ersatz Bataillon 16 and Sicherungs-Infanterie-Bataillon 908 respectively). The intel was proven correct and was not the reason the operation failed.
The women having their heads shaved might have bit 'uncomfortable', but imagine how many of those townspeople lost loved ones to the Germans. The Germans that were helped, by those people being shaved or shot. How would you feel after losing a loved one, or people you played on the playground with as you grew up?
I would be thrilled to see you react to the movie Gettysburg. Made in 1993, the movie is one of the greatest Civil War films ever made. The movie has remarkable loyalty to historical accuracy and to the book, The Killer Angels, which the film is based on. The battle scenes are made possible by the hundreds of real reenactors from all over the USA. Directed by Ron Maxwel, music composed by Randy Edelman, starring Jeff Daniels, Sam Elliot, Martin Sheen, Stephen Lang, and Tom Berenger. I know you probably get so many suggestions and I understand you have a busy schedule. But I hope you consider watching Gettysburg as it is my personal 3rd favorite movie of all time (behind LOTR and Star Wars).
Something you quickly learn from studying history is that whenever someone says "The war will be over by Christmas!" you can be certain that the war will absolutely not be over by Christmas
One thing that scene made me think of - the helmets had chin straps, They were pretty much never used. Instead of the helmet flying off, a shot like that would have possibly broken his neck if the chin strap was fastened.
You need to understand that at the end of the episode, Winters saying, "Well, as long as they're only old men and and kids" was sarcasm. They were told that only old men and kids would be fighting them, but they found out the hard way that that intelligence was incorrect. In reality, they were fighting crack troops in their prime.
Fun fact: the runaway tank that nearly ran over 'Bull' Randleman bears the divisional insignia of the British 11th Armoured Division - a black bull on a yellow field. A Bull nearly run over by a bull! It's a contrived in-joke because the Sherman tanks were not from 11th Armoured in reality, only the Cromwell tanks (the boxey square shaped tanks following behind) were correctly marked. Most of the German vehicles in the production are not correct either, because there were limited choices of vehicles in running condition in England at the time of the production, so the same mix of vehicles make appearances throughout the series. For anyone interested, the German unit at Nuenen were Panzerbrigade 107, which had Panther tanks and armoured half-tracks, so only the half-track was historically correct. The vehicle that ambushed the Sherman Sergeant Martin spoke to was never identified, but was probably a half-track with a 7.5cm close support kanon (SdKfz 251/9), which was hidden behind a hedgerow and not a house. Tank commanders did not have orders to avoid unnecessary damage to civilian property.
I remember a rebuttal to the "destruction of property" bit saying that if you told a British tanker that there was something worth shooting on the other side of a house, they'd keep shooting until they found it
@@ergopropterhoc- it's certainly a scene that has been conflated from two actions on different days in different places, the German vehicles are wrong, and the ambush vehicle was hidden behind a hedgerow and not correctly identified - the tankers reported a Mark IV tank but in reality probably a half-track with 7.5cm close support kanon (SdKfz 251/9). The tankers were probably familiar with the type of ammunition being shot at them and got that bit right, and Marks IVs were quite commonplace, but there were none in the area. The panzerbrigade had a company of Jagdpanzer IV/L70 tank destroyers, but the current research (Kampfgruppe Walther and Panzerbrigade 107 by Jack Didden and Maarten Swarts, 2018) indicates they were unloaded last off the trains at Roermond and arrived too late to take part in actions on 19-20 September. Sergeant Martin did warn a tank commander at Nuenen (if I recall his name was Lieutenant Benton of 44th Royal Tank Regiment) of the ambush, and I think the second part of what he said "well I believe you, but if I can't see him I can't shoot him" is correct. The part played by the house is certainly made up.
And in reality the tank didn't roll after Bull. It was stopped dead. A second shot then blew off the turret. There is a picture of Benton's lead Sherman on its side with turret blown off in Market Garden Then And Now Volume II by Karel Margry.
@@ThumperE23 The Guards Armoured Division quickly sped through the Eindhoven sector when the Bailey Bridge was built. It moved on to Nijmegen on the 19th. The 44th Royal Tank Regiment (4th Armoured Brigade) was also in XXX Corps and remained in the Eindhoven area and worked with the 101st Airborne The 11th Armoured Division was there too, as part of VIII Corps, protecting the right flank.
It's strange - it never occurred to me before that the real "children and old men" in this episode are actually Easy Company, with the veterans and the new recruits. Thanks for giving me a new perspective on it, Jacqui. Good work.
Regarding the 506th's Unit Citation dispute, the US Army does in fact make a distinction between the replacements and the veterans. Both are allowed to wear the award, but in the case of the replacements, they are only allowed to wear it while they're assigned to the 506th. The veterans - those who were with the unit during the campaign or battle for which the citation was awarded - are allowed to wear the award permanently.
When 'Bull' Randleman bayonets the soldier, and the girl witnesses it... it's not just the woman that loses innocence. As a soldier, he's already lost his innocence. But there are degrees of innocence. He'd go home, people would know he was a soldier. Maybe call him a hero. But they wouldn't know specifics. And they wouldn't have SEEN him. That woman seeing him do a thing that he knows is 'bad', well that's just another level of lost innocence for him. I don't know if I'm explaining it right.
I love your perspective on the theme of loss of innocence. There’s also the child who’s never known life without war to note as well. After you made this point, I also thought about the reemergence of CPT Sobel at this point. Was it a way for Easy Company and the audience to harken back to their time of innocence when they saw him as a monster and now he’s looked at as just an annoyance. Great insights! Thank you!
In regards to that scene of Easy Company dropping into Holland: I actually own a framed photograph of the real drop signed by the real “Wild Bill” Guarnere himself! My great grandfather also served in the 506th PIR (the same regiment Easy Company is in) so this series has always been a wonderful bit of family history for me. Anyways, I love your intelligent, thoughtful, and insightful takes on this series and I can’t wait to see the rest of your analyses. Keep up the great work!
I sent an email to Mr. Guarnere via a website that his grandson created. I never expected a response, I just wanted to say thanks to a member of Easy Co. and that website was a conduit for that thanks. A couple of months later, I got a handwritten letter from the man himself. He thanked me for my letter and assured me that he, nor any of the survivors of WWII were heroes. I can only imagine how many people got handwritten letters from Bill. What a humble, truly outstanding group of men they were.
Having been a screenwriter in previous career, I have to mention something that they do with the action in BoB that too many productions ignore: they have the action tell a story instead of just being actiony images (character beating plot yet again). TBF, being based on true events does inform some of the choices, but things like showing Bull being a badass from getting caught behind the line up through having to regain his humanity despite a moment of survival ruthlessness is an excellent example of sequence-level 3-act storytelling woven within some true-life action.
As to the shot of all the jumpers in the air, with the planes flying over, it really does look like that. Mass jumps were simply that. Dudes everywhere in the sky. I really miss those. Jumping like that was fun.
Great reaction Jacqui. For a better understanding of what went wrong with Market Garden please watch A Bridge Too Far, an excellent movie about the operation.
Very inaccurate in many places though and it completely omits two American generals greatly responsible for the failure with their cautious decisions. Brereton and Williams of the USAAF.
Just wanted to say that I appreciate you censoring yourself during editing instead of self-censoring yourself verbally. Really makes your reaction more immediate and relatable. And considering the topic, your choice of words can't be faulted.
I understand film is your forte' but it is so refreshing to watch a reaction video and see a thorough breakdown and analysis of the episode and get a better understanding of the film making aspect. Some reaction youtubers just watch the film or show and at the end it's, "that was great, bye".
I did the complete Market Garden route with my cousin who lives there many years ago. I also visited a Canadian War cemetery with my Grandfather at the same time. His farm was occupied by Germans. Not once did my dad ever talk about that occupation nor did any of his 17 siblings. I can only imagine ....
The "children and old men" line was meant to describe "limited or not strong resistance" not necessarily that it was literally the case. Although there certainly were a lot of conscripts from conquered nations both within and outside of the "normal" draft age range. They were wrong about that for this operation though. Winters was being sarcastic about how bad the intelligence was by referring to it again at the end of the episode.
"Children and old men" were direct references to units known to be at Arnhem, specifically some Hitler Youth recruits completing their training with SS-Panzergrenadier-Ausbildungs-und-Erstaz-Bataillon 16 as replacements for 12.SS-Panzer-Division 'Hitlerjugend', and the local security battalion Sicherungs-Infanterie-Bataillon 908 composed of WW1 logistics troops deemed unfit for combat duties even in 1914-18. This intelligence had nothing to with the unit encountered by Easy Company at Nuenen - Panzerbrigade 107 - a type of unit designed to fight on the Russian front, but was sent instead to fight the US 1st Army at Aachen, when the airborne landings resulted in them being diverted again to offload the trains at Venlo and Roermond in the Netherlands as the more pressing emergency. They concentrated at Nuenen as their headquarters for attacks on the MARKET GARDEN corridor at Son. The 506th had dropped behind the Wilhelmina canal defence line at Son, manned by men from the Luftwaffe Flieger-Regiment 52, a basic training unit that was told they were now in the Fallschirmtruppe (parachute troops) under 1.Fallschirm-Armee and renamed Fallschirmjäger-Regiment Hübner after their commander, later to be given the official number 24. The Volkssturm were established on Hitler's orders of 25 September as a militia of 16-60 year olds not already serving in the military, just as MARKET GARDEN (17-26 September) was almost already over and therefore not involved.
Not exactly old men and boys. Those were front German troops and were ready for them. The old Dutch man was telling the US troops to leave because he knew the Germans were waiting in ambush.
Both old men and boys were specific units known to be at Arnhem, and the frontline troops that were bumped by Easy 506th PIR at Nueuen in this episode was Panzerbrigade 107 - a unit that was on its way to fight the US 1st Army at Aachen and then diverted to the Netherlands after the airborne landings. Niether the local security units or II.SS-Panzerkorps northeast of Arnhem were expecting an airborne attack so far behind their own lines - it was a complete surprise.
One of the best scenes is them pulling out of neunum in the trucks and the newbies looking at their heroes who are just as scared as them and the penny drops.
You should look into “A Bridge to Far” United Artist (I think) 1977. Sean Connery, Robert Redford, Micheal Caen and so many more. It’s a A list of actors
Really loved hearing your post-episode analysis on this one. You raise a lot of points that I strongly agree with and that I rarely hear other reactors talk about, so thank you!
If you want to learn more about this operation, watch “A Bridge Too Far,” loaded with big name actors made in the 70’s. Based on a book of the same name by Cornelius Ryan who also wrote “The Longest Day, “ a story about D-Day also with a famous cast.
"A Bridge Too Far" works pretty well as a spiritual sequel. I'm wondering if there is a "third part of the trilogy", let's say. I know "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is much in the same spirit, but it's not in the European campaign.
@@benschultz1784 Oh, i didn't know that. But i watched Enemy At The Gates, and even if it's a pretty good movie, it's a shame that it isn't focused on historical accuracy, like the other two are.
14:50 if you understand german that scene is much more powerful because you can literally hear the german soldier which is essentially a 17 year old boy say with a fearful voice "come out i will not harm you please come out!"
I think the treatment of the female collaborators is important to show, for most of the reasons you described. The Dutch had been under German occupation for years. Many of those people would have lost members of their families trying to fight the Germans during that time, so it's pretty understandable that they would be incredibly angry in that moment at learning of people who survived by lowering themselves and sleeping with the enemy. I can't say that I wouldn't feel the same if I were in their position. But then we see the woman on the way out of town with her small child and you understand that some of these people were just trying to make sure their children survived, even if it cost them in the long run. War really shines a light on a lot of the grey areas we'd find easier to believe were just black and white.
Of all the reactions I've seen you really stand out, both by articulate the human side and as a professional. I hope you can make some master piece one day because you really truly get it.
The Operation depicted here, Market-Garden, was a debacle. The plan was to use paratroops to seize five bridges along a single-lane road and then have an armored column move along the road to the German border, relieving the paratroops as it went. But the armored column ran way behind schedule and only made it to the fourth bridge before being stopped by the Germans, so the paratroops at the fifth bridge (the British First Airborne Division, numbering 8,000 men) were surrounded and forced to mass surrender. The plan was stupidly concocted by British General Montgomery and violated multiple principles of strategic planning: putting an entire army on a single road with no alternative routes if a traffic jam ensued (which it predictably did every time a vehicle broke down or was hit by enemy fire), no way to protect the flanks of the column as it moved (which allowed the Germans to ambush the column from the sides of the road), no way to supply the forward units dropped miles ahead of the column (which eventually ran out of ammunition), no line of retreat if the operation failed (resulting in the surrender of the 1st Airborne at the last bridge), placing the entire operation on a timetable that left no room for error (the column fell behind schedule by an entire day), resting the entire plan upon assumptions about what the enemy would do with no contingency if they decided not to do what you hoped they would do (they wrongly assumed that no Germans tanks were in the area), and relying upon lightly-armed paratroops with nothing but what they could carry on them to capture and hold five different bridges held by the enemy (the German tanks overwhelmed the paratroops).
That sounds like a Hollywood film. The real story involved about 24 bridges with a minimum of 10 needed to get to Arnhem and the ground forces reached Nijmegen still on schedule, only to find the 82nd Airborne had not secured the highway bridge over the river Waal. It imposed a fatal delay of 36 hours while the Guards Armoured Division assisted the 82nd in taking the two Waal bridges and the delay compromised the operation and sealed the fate of the British 1st Airborne at Arnhem. The reasons for the failure at Nijmegen are complex but the 508th Regimental commander was a character like Sobel in that he was an excellent administrator and a poor field commander. He also did not perform well in Normandy, the regiment's first combat operation. General Gavin (Ryan O'Neal in the Hollywood film A Bridge Too Far) first dismissed a British request to drop a battalion at the north end of the Nijmegen bridge and then selected the 508th for the Nijmegen mission instead of the more aggressive and experienced 504th or 505th. He did instruct the commander, Colonel Lindquist, to send his 1st Battalion directly to the bridge after landing, but he failed to do so, believing he had to clear the drop zone and secure his other objectives first. He was even told by the local Dutch resistance leader Geert van Hees that the Germans had deserted Nijmegen and left only a non-commissioned officer and seventeen men to guard the highway bridge. The blunder allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move in and reinforce the city and its bridges. The planning was not done by Montgomery - he ordered the operation and it was planned by USAAF General Brereton and his 1st Allied Airborne Army staff. The senior British airborne commander, Browning, was unable to object to Brereton's planning compromises because he had been politically neutralised during the operation LINNET II affair, in which Browning had threatened to resign over a too short notice period to print and distribute maps to the troops. The operation was thankfully cancelled and both men agreed to forget the incident, but Brereton had planned to accept Browning's resignation and replace him with Matthew Ridgway and his US XVIII Airborne Corps. You made some factual errors: 1. British 2nd Army was to advance over three main supply routes, only the XXX Corps were on the central 'Club Route' secured by the Airborne, while VIII and XII Corps were on the flanks on 'Spade' and 'Diamond' routes. The 'Club Route' had a number of detours on 'Heart Route' in case bridges were blown and some of these were used. So your principles of strategic planning were violated by the mythology of A Bridge Too Far, not the real operation. 2. The British Airborne ran out of ammunition because they were not supposed to hold for more than four days - the delay was caused by the blunder at Nijmegen, only a consequence of planning by 1st AAA and James Gavin compromising his own divisional plan. 3. There was no assumption there would be no German armour in the area. This is another A Bridge Too Far myth. Operation COMET, involving only the British division dropping at Arnhem, Nijmegen, and Grave - was cancelled by Montgomery when he recieved reports that II.SS-Panzerkorps had moved into the Arnhem area. He proposed an upgrade to Eisenhower by adding the two US Airborne divisions, so British Airborne and the Polish Brigade could concentrate at Arnhem with their considerable anti-tank gun resources. This became MARKET GARDEN, but Brereton compromised many of the key features of the COMET concept in the planning for MARKET, such as deleting the double airlift on D-Day and the dawn glider coup de main assaults on the three main bridges. 4. The British 1st Airborne Division numbered 10,500 men and casualties totalled about 8,000, of which 1,485 were British and Polish dead, and 6,525 became prisoners - mostly wounded. Over 2,000 were successfully evacuated. Very few surrendered and only did so when out of ammunition. Ask yourself why there is not a single 508th PIR trooper or a single airborne anti-tank gun in the Hollywood film and the possibility it might be propaganda designed for an American audience. The ad hominem attacks on Montgomery are not only insulting to a country that is one of the few friends America has in the world, is it also scholastically incompetent. Sources: The MARKET GARDEN Campaign: Allied operational command in northwest Europe, 1944 (Roger Cirillo PhD Thesis, 2001 Cranfield University, College of Defence Technology, Department of Defence Management and Security Analysis) Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011) September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012) Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012) Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020) The 1st Airlanding Anti-Tank Battery At Arnhem: A-Z Troop volumes, Nigel Simpson, Secander Raisani, Philip Reinders, Geert Massen, Peter Vrolijk, Marcel Zwarts (2020-2022)
@@davemac1197 You may think you're defending the plan, but you actually just unwittingly pointed out the problem in your own logic. A plan that completely unraveled because one regiment-level commander didn't achieve his objective exactly on schedule is inherently a bad plan. A sound battle plan would have ASSUMED that multiple battalion- and regiment-level commanders would be late or fail completely, and would have built in multiple contingencies. "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy," which is why the best battle plans don't rely on every mid-level commander being a tactical genius and everything working like clockwork, but instead provide multiple options for when things inevitably go wrong so that there's a greater chance that at least one option might work. Trying to put it all on the failure of Gavin is just proof of why the plan was so poorly constructed. Contrast it with the way D-Day itself was planned. The Allies hit 5 beaches simultaneously knowing that they didn't need to hold all 5 in order to succeed. The possibility of division-level failure on 1 or 2 beaches was built into the plan. The problem with Market-Garden was that they needed to hold EVERY bridge, meaning there was no room for failure even at the regimental level. The plan would only work if every paratroop regiment was perfect. That's a bad plan no matter how you slice it. No battle in the history of war ever went according to plan. The difference between winning and losing a battle, from the Greeks through Napoleon and until today, almost always comes down to which side built more room for failure into their plan and provided more contingencies against the unexpected. That was the problem with Market-Garden: there was almost no margin for error.
@@charlize1253- first of all, I'm clearly not defending the plan because the original COMET concept was compromised by Brereton for MARKET by deleting the double airlift on D-Day and the glider coup de main assaults on the main bridges. Browning could not object after already threatening to resign over Brereton's LINNET II plan. Gavin's 82nd Airborne divisional plan was also compromised when he dismissed the British request to drop a battalion on the north end of the Nijmegen highway bridge. So I'm certainly not defending 'the plan' - I am simply rejecting the ignorant notion the "plan was stupidly concocted by British General Montgomery" because that is totally wrong. So the plan depended on everyone at least attempting to do their job, not an unreasonable expectation, and if Colonel Lindquist of the 508th had followed his pre-flight instructions from Gavin then it can be demonstrated (because three scouts from the 1st Battalion S-2 Section actually reached the bridge without firing a shot and waited an hour for reinforcements) that the 1st Battalion 508th could have secured it by road march before SS panzer troops arrived. The fact that didn't happen was not because of anything the Germans did, because the 508th had zero opposition until late on the first night, and not because it was planned to fail as often suggested by Gavin prioritising the Groesbeek ridge, because that is false as well. It failed because of a series of bad decisions made by Brereton - Gavin - Lindquist, and flew in the face of British advice - not an unfamiliar situation in our history. Montgomery, along with 1st Airborne Division at Arnrhem, was badly let down.
@charlize1253 Just a couple of things. 1. The advance during Market Garden was actually the fastest allied advance against German opposition in the entire September 1944 to February 1945 period. Nearly 100km of German held ground taken in just 3 days. The road wasn't the issue. British armour got up that road quicker than Patton's armour got across the Lorraine. 2. British armour wasn't behind schedule. Despite having to build its own Bailey Bridge at Son after the 101st failed to capture the bridge there, the British Guards Armoured Division began linking up with the 82nd Airborne at Grave in just 42 hours. If the 82nd Airborne hadn't retreated out of Nijmegen and instead had the Nijmegen road bridge captured then British armour would have reached Arnhem on schedule. It was the US paras not having bridges captured which put the British armour behind schedule. I don't know why you accuse Montgomery of breaking the rules of strategy when it was the air forces who did that. It wasn't Montgomery who refused to fly double missions on day one, refused to fly closer to the targets, refused coup de mains on the bridges etc.
Cobb the guy who got hit in the plane and never made the jump into Normandy was actually one of the only Regular Army in the unit. He had enlisted in the 30s and served in North Africa in an Armored division before volunteering for the Airborne.
A note about Market Garden, this mission was even bigger planning than Normandy, which took years in the planning, but was done in 3 weeks and the intelligence was so poor, just as an example, the Dutch resistance found that there were tanks where there should not have been any they informed the British was ignored, even photo recon verified it and it was still ignored. Drop zones were so far away from objectives, they didn't even have enough planes to ferry the troops. Watch the movie A Bridge too Far
Intelligence was definitely not ignored. The II.SS-Panzerkorps were known to be refitting in the Netherlands - the reason operation COMET was cancelled and replaced with the upgraded MARKET GARDEN. The Spitfire reconnaissance photo picked up obsolete tanks from a training unit that was correctly dismissed as obsolete and not even near Arnhem when the operation started. Ironically, they were laagered opposite the 506th PIR's drop zone near Son and were shot up by escorting USAAF fighter aircraft. If you want to know what really happened, you need to read some books written by historians and not rely on a Hollywood film that's only 50% historically accurate. Source: Arnhem: The Air Reconnaissance Story, Air Historical Branch (Royal Air Force 2016, 2nd Ed 2019) Recommended: Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011) September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012) Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012) Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
I love the fact that I'm watching this series with you. I saw this on it's original run and I've watched it many time since then and watching your reacting is the same as when I watched it for the first time.
The comment about "kids & old men" wasn't meant literally (that wouldn't happen for another ~8 months)...just that it would be inexperienced garrison troops, not front-line elite units. Unfortunately, Allied Intel dropped the ball hard on this one, as the Nazis moved the remnants of a couple of armored divisions into that area of Holland to rest and rearm after some serious fighting on the Eastern Front. The units were pretty chewed up from that fighting, tired and considerably understrength, but they were battle-hardened survivors of some of the nastiest fighting the Nazis would see during the war, definitely not the easy cakewalk that the Allies were expecting to run into. As for the treatment of the collaborators, it's easy to see both sides...nearly 5 years of occupation, and under a rather ruthless occupying force to boot, makes for some pretty serious hatred and discontent, and getting publicly shamed for collaboration is pretty tame compared to what's happened to collaborators in other theaters of war; on the other hand, SA does occur during occupations, so it's possible that not all of those women slept with the Germans willingly and some were punished unjustly. It's hard to judge one way or the other without having been there. Realizing that little kid has probably spent most of his life in an air raid shelter and has never had experiences we take for granted, like tasting chocolate, is a really eye-opening way of getting the point across to the audience of what the war was like for civilians in occupied areas...and that poor kid's first taste of chocolate being a D-ration bar (which were notoriously hard to chew, bitter, and generally tasted very little like chocolate) makes it all the more depressing.
It was indeed meant literally, because it referred specifically to SS-Panzergrenadier-Ausbildungs-und-Erstaz Bataillon 16 - training Hitler Youth as replacements for 12.SS-Panzer-Division 'Hitlerjugend', and the local secuirty unit Sicherungs-Infanterie-Bataillon 908 - comprised of WW1 logistics troops deemed unfit for combat duties in 1914-18. Both units were known to be in the Arnhem area. Where most of the history books get it wrong was that the presence of II.SS-Panzerkorps refitting in the area was also known, but because the intelligence was obtained by 'Ultra' code intercepts of the German signals, the airborne units could only be briefed in vague terms ('sanitised' intel was stripped of specific unit identifications) of expecting heavy armoured counter-attacks at Arnhem, and given only to those who needed to know, such as the anti-tank batteries that went to Arnhem, in order to protect the source. Only senior officers at Army level and above knew of the existence of 'Ultra' until it was finally made public in 1974 with the publication of FW Winterbotham's The Ultra Secret, the same year Cornelius Ryan's A Bridge Too Far was published. Ryan, who had terminal cancer and published his book unfinished, thought the British at Arnhem were effectively ambushed and failed to research the true reason the operation failed, which was the 508th PIR's failure to move on the undefended Nijmegen bridge in the first critical hours, as instructed by General Gavin. It allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move into Nijmegen and reinforce the bridges, imposing a fatal delay on the British Army's advance to Arnhem and sealed the fate of the British 1st Airborne Division.
Thanks for getting back to BoB! I've really been enjoying your insights as a film school grad. I do want to address your comments about the scene in which the Dutch women were being shamed. It's important to note that those women were Nazi collaborators - not just women who were being nice to the Germans in order to get by or to soften German soldiers. Note the guy from the Dutch Resistance stating that "...the men who collaborated are being shot". If they were truly collaborators, those women may have helped the Germans round up, arrest and kill Jewish people and people in the resistance. While that scene in which the women were shamed is shocking and uncomfortable, one must remember the outcomes of those women's actions. In many cases, those outcomes were arrest, and possibly torture and death. I write this not to scold, but to point out just how bad things often were in that time and place. Keep doing what you're doing. Your reactions and your insights are great.
The German resistance the Allies encountered in Operation Market Garden was far from "old men and kids." Although caught by surprise, portions of nearby German units were able to combine their forces into make-shift divisions to repel the attack as well as a full German tank division that happened to be their for rest and refuling.
@dansmart3182 The Germans still lost 100km of ground and retreated over the Waal River. They lost major Dutch towns Eindhoven and Nijmegen. Right after Market Garden the Germans put on a counter attack to try and push back to Nijmegen. This totally failed and British 2nd Army stopped them immediately.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Yes, the Allies made early gains because the Germans were taken by surprise and the Allied units that were assigned to capture the lower bridges accomplished their part of the mission but the Germans counter attacked and all but annihilated the British 1st Airborne at the northern most bridge at Arnhem which broke up the whole offensive.
@@vincentsaia6545 Well, the Germans were actually ready, prepared and defending on the Belgian/Dutch border. When the British Guards Armoured Division set off they were ambushed and lost nearly a dozen tanks right away. The 101st Airborne failed to capture the Son Bridge. The 82nd Airborne failed to capture the Nijmegen bridge. Still, despite all this Market Garden took nearly 100km of ground. As I said, this was the fastest allied advance against German opposition in the entire September 1944 to February 1945 period. In the Lorraine, Patton took over two months to move 10km to Metz. Dont get me wrong, the Germans reacted very well and broke off the tip of the spear. However, when all is said and done they did retreat 100km and lost a lot of ground. The British got closer to Germany. The British advance into Germany took place from the Nijmegen area captured in Market Garden, through the Reichswald.
I enjoy watching analysis videos of movies and music that I love. Unfortunately, the TH-cam algorithm keeps dropping videos into my feed of "Random person watches something for the first time and adds nothing to it." If I'm bored, I'll watch them every now and then. That is why I clicked on you watching the first episode of Band of Brothers. I was very pleasantly surprised. Your analysis does add a lot to the video, and even when you are not talking about the themes, cinematography, etc. I am sure that your reactions are genuine, and not over the top because you know that it will get you views. Well done.
A British historian reacting to this miniseries took exception at the scene where the British tank operator refuses to take the American's advice and shoot through the building as an American dramatic trope: American's willing to do anything to win the day while the British insist on going "by the book." He said that British soldiers were just as willing to throw away the book to win in real life.
I actually don't take it in that American vs British trope. I took it in different ways. One the allies were trying not to cause to much collateral damage. Though i can not find any order in general that was given. Rules of engagements may of also been given in particular situation. One has to understand this series was taken from what the men of Easy Company thought. So whether this scene is true or not should be researched from what they told and viewed. This is not a historical documentary this is a retelling of what the men of E Company went through. Some scenes are altered or condensed and even different people are put into certain scenes. Even the Bastogne episode will have events that may never happened. The other view of this scene it goes to show that many of these units were pulled together for an operation and had little time to work with other units. It just happens the tank units here are British. Even if this was an American unit they would not have had time to work together and know how to operate together. Many historians I have talked to say this was most likely the true issue. Unlike Master's of the Air where they do over use this American vs British trope I do think this was more the fact you have two different units using to different methods of combat and had no time to work together and train for combine arms. It the Battle of the Bulge there are several instances were American mobile and Airborne have issues working with one another. It just happened in Bastogne I believe one of the Tank Destroyer commanders had had time working with airborne that enabled them to work together. In the end this is about the men of Easy Company and what they thought, did, experienced and remembered. If this account is part of one of their memoirs it should be told that is how at persons remembered it. If it is the creators of the show just making something up then yes it should be researched as to why they did it.
The historian was right. This episode was a conflation of two incidents (hence both types of British tanks present but should be separate) on two different days at two different locations - Opwetten on 19 September and Nuenen on 20 September. The German unit was Panzerbrigade 107 equipped with Panther tanks and armoured half-tracks for the infantry. The vehicle that ambushed the British tanks was not correctly identified by the British tankers (they reported a Mark IV tank) but probably a half-track with 7.5cm close support kanon (SdKfz 251/9), so the tankers got the shell calibre right. The vehicle was hidden behind a hedgerow and not seen. The whole thing about not shooting through the house I totally agree is Hollywood drama and they can't resist continuing the war of independence by other means - it gets incredibly 'old' here in the UK. Just stick to the facts guys, and you can't go wrong.
@@arakuss1 In writing the book Stephen Ambrose reported that he frequently had to deal with the fact that the surviving Company E members had conflicting memories of certain events.
@@davemac1197 I had no issue with what type of tanks were involved. There are several scenes that are mix of different events put into one scene. Masters of the Air has several of those scenes where they take to different incidents and meld them together or broke them apart to put in different time lines. I could totally be that the creators (Hollywood) put this line in there to do just that, however out of several of the lines they could have put in its very weak. I have scene this very discussion on other articles and video comments about this very thing. I am more leaning this was more of a comment the fact this whole operation was badly thought out. Along the idea these units had not worked or trained together. I can understand it gets old but I do know enough people in UK who do the exact opposite to Americans. I will say it once more this is not a documentary it is about the experience of the men in Easy Company of the 101st. There are plenty of times where veterans get the facts wrong but it is how they remember it. I am not sure if it was in this comment or the other I stated of whether or not this was the view of Martin or any others in Easy Company. If so then it should be put in. I wrote a paper on the conditions of the US Military during Vietnam and its deterioration of moral, discipline, and ability through out the war. I had many Vietnam Vets friends disagree with my paper at first. From their point of view they did not see this, mainly because most of them were not draftees but part of regular combat forces. My papers was on over all which included the growing number of draftees. What they saw and experienced is just as important as the facts were in my paper. They just represented a different point of view from a different group during the war. So true this tank scene might be Hollywood trying make fiction, but here one member of Easy view on the British. "That worried me was the entire mission was under British command. It was strictly a limey deal, under Montgomery. The Brits were different fighters than us. We figured that out real fast in Normandy. They were fighting the war for years and were tired of war. The soldiers were lions--they fought like the Americans--but they were led by a bunch of damned donkeys. Ever hear that said? The ranks were handed down, like with British royalty. They weren't earned. So who knows what was leading their army. See, now I'm educating ya! Their leaders were very leisurely in their way of fighting. They liked to stop for tea and crumpets and set up housekeeping in the middle of a battle. True. Tea and crumpets. I saw it for myself. Later in the book, Bill Guarnere returns to this thought: Now, we never fought with the British in the war. They were supposed to come up and meet us in Eindhoven. The British were good soldiers. They had a lot of time in combat. But their leaders had them stopping for friggin' tea in every town. Maybe if they met their own troops in Eindhoven, not us, they would have fought better, instead of throwing two different armies together. That was a risk." So the question is then if the creators had statements like these to read and others in Easy Company maybe that is why it was put in. It doesn't have to be accurate as in true but this is what Bill Guarnere thought. (To add Tom Hanks actually read this and wrote a forward to Guarnere's book. I don't know if he read it before or after the filming of Band of Brothers.)
@@vincentsaia6545 It was known as well that Ambrose was a bit of an Anglophobe, in most of his books he mentions that the British were in the most part inferior to there American allies.
I love how this episode highlights the work of the Dutch resistance. Holland was occupied for the majority of the war by the Germans, and they had a strong point during the occupation to exterminate as many people as possible, the regime was brutal. So anyone who collaborated after the fact was executed or marked. Some people did it just for survival which really puts perspective on how intense that time was to live in
The intel for this operation was terrible. You heard the talk about fighting kids and old men. in reality, they dropped over 40,000 airborne troops in total into the areas where two SS Panzer Divisions that had been pulled off the line for rest and repairs were "resting". They still managed to take two of the three objectives, but couldn't capture the final bridge at Arnhem where the majority of the British 1st Airborne Division was essentially deleted (80% casualties)
34,000 airborne troops and the intelligence at Arnhem was very accurate. The kids and old men referred to an SS training battalion training some Hitler Youth recruits and the local security battalion consisting of WW1 logistics troops deemed unfit for combat duty in 1914-18. The two SS panzer divisions refitting in the eastern Netherlands were known to be there and were known to be in a reduced condition from the fighting in Normandy, mostly at the hands of British infantry divisions. The British and Polish Airborne took 83 anti-tank guns to Arnhem, more than the Germans could send in tanks. Of the 8,000 casualties at Arnhem, 6,525 were wounded that had to be left behind to become prisoners of war because they couldn't be evacuated across the river Rijn. 1,485 British and Polish Airborne were killed, and over 2,000 were successfully brought back. I find your choice of the word "deleted" a bit odd when talking about people. The airborne objectives were about 24 bridges, including many alternative crossings, not just the three you see in the Hollywood film, but you don't see the 508th Regiment of the 82nd Airborne fail to secure the undefended Nijmegen highway bridge in the first few hours of the operation. This blunder allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move into the city and reinforce the bridges, imposing a delay on the advance of the British XXX Corps that compromised the operation and sealed the fate of the British airborne division at Arnhem. You will never see that story being told in a Hollywood film, but it is in the literature. Sources: Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011) September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012) Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012) Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
There is an interview with the Actor that played Bull. It is worth a watch and all the other interviews they did with them. This series being 20 plus years old and it was done so well. To pull those emotions out of everyone...
I’d recommend you to watch “A bridge too far” (1977) with a stellar cast, Michael Caine, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Sean Connery and many others. It shows Operation Market Garden from the point of view of the units in charge of taking the bridges across the Rhine river. Excellent movie. 👍🏻
Women who watch this series always seem to get really upset over a few women getting their hair cut off in a public shaming because they gave comfort to the enemy, but always have very little to say about the men who did similar getting shot as traitors. Men who watch this series naturally understand that there are consequences for treasonous actions and don't take much issue with what happened to either group. There's a lesson in there for young men who don't have much experience with women yet. Men and women see loyalty in very different ways. Women can easily see themselves in the women depicted in the series. They can easily imagine themselves sleeping with literal Nazis in order to find protection, safety, or just some better privileges and comforts when their homes are invaded and occupied, and their brothers and fathers have been oppressed or killed. Remember this lesson well. Apply it to all aspects of your daily life.
I lowkey love those "isn't-that" productions. not only the scope that needs a lot of good actors and a budget to afford them, but also a casting crew that reviews countless people and picks the ones who will later thrive in the industry. maybe also a self-fulfilling prophecy because "once your headshot is on the right table", but the intuition those casting ppl have is amazing.
The Americans were very well known for sharing their emergency rations (The chocolate bar) with kids in liberated towns. The sad thing is, that chocolate was apparently awful, the army specified that it should taste 'a little better than a boiled potato' to prevent soldiers from snacking on their emergency rations.
The saddest thing is when the soldiers shared the chocolate bars with the survivors, during the liberation of the camps, and those poor people ate themselves to death.
American chocolate has always tasted like sh*t, especially Hershey's which tastes absolutely disgusting. They nothing on British chocolate like Cadbury's and Galaxy.
Watch a Bridge too Far if you want to see the entire background of the Market Garden operation. Long but will give you an understanding of the background behind this episode. The operation that was supposed to bring them home by Christmas... not. You are interested enough in the history that I think you would appreciat it.
It's only 50% historically accurate, but well made and has an entertaining script. It is a constant annoyance that Americans think the film is history though. It's Hollywood propaganda and entertainment.
No film is history, for that read the book. However a Bridge too Far is better than most and calling it propaganda is a bit much, that is what comes out of Hollywood today. Big name stars and glossing over some things is about as bad as it gets in the film.
To give you some idea of the scale of Market Garden, as the first paratroops were making landfall in Holland there were still planes taking off in England.
Another great reaction video Jacqui -loving hearing your filmic insight. One thing you may have misinterpreted was the "only Old Men and Kids" comment. It wasn't made as comment on lives less valuable, but rather on forces less capable. Older men who were perhaps soldiers in WWI and now considered too old for frontline assignments would be grouped with older teens from the Hilter Youth, to form small regiments that could be sent to less important locations (freeing up the more capable soldiers for important work). The intelligence reports that Eindhoven was guarded by one of these less capable units was tragically wrong. I'd love to see your reaction to Taika Waititi's "JoJo Rabbit" -a comedy about a young boy in the Hitler Youth realising the Nazis aren't as cool as he thought they were...
My great grandfather was part of the British 1st airbourne who took part in operation market garden, of which the objective was to take key bridges in Arnhem and hold them, as another commentor mentioned the intelligence about the German forces their was wrong and an entire division of German tanks that just happened to be in the area for rest and refit. The British set up their command headquarters in a hotel called the Hartenstein, long story short the Germans beat the British so bad that the only area the British had left was a small area around their headquarters by the end of it. My grandfather's name was Ron Turner and he was an part of the engineer core or ReME for short
that's a very shorthand account of what happened, I would recommend watching a bridge too far, the movie is spectacular and sums up the whole operation perfectly
The comment about the Germans being old men and kids… Allied intelligence expected weak opposition to the offensive. However, highly effective veteran units had recently been moved into the area to rest and refit after fighting in Normandy. So the German resistance was much stronger than expected.
The German units at Arnhem were well known, but what wasn't allowed for was the 82nd Airborne failing to secure the undefended bridge at Nijmegen. This was an unforced blunder that compromised the operation and sealed the fate of th Airborne at Arnhem. Not in the Hollywood film, obviously.
That was only the initial expectation when it was being thought up in early September. By the time it actually started two weeks later the operation had expanded in size to counter the stronger German forces and they knew it wouldn't be old men and boys.
If you're ever in the mood to learn a bit more about Operation Market Garden there's a great feature film called A Bridge Too Far that covers the events from multiple points of view. It's directed by Richard Attenborough and has an absolutely bonkers cast, including Michael Caine, Sean Connery, Anthony Hopkins, Laurence Olivier, Robert Redford, Elliot Gould, Maximillian Schell, James Caan, Ryan O'Neal and Gene Hackman.
Read the book A bridge to Far by Cornelius Ryan.
@@dirus3142The book is about 15 times better than the movie, imho.
Still one my favorite WWII movies
Schell played Wilhelm Bittrich correct?
And you could say it is the spiritual sequel to "The Longest Day", which is about D-Day, and told in a very similar way to this one. I'm wondering if there's another one that could work as an "end to the trilogy".
Jacqui, first time I watched band of Brothers I was so young, I never understood it all. This episode in particular affected my mum and dad, i remember watching with them.
I now know why as I'm older. My grandparents were in occupied Netherlands. My dad's mum remembered market garden, hiding in the cellar when the planes came over. She was young but remembered it til her last days.
As a grandchild of people who went through the occupation and liberation this hit me hard.
The Dutch have a special love for the liberators even now. I'm heading there to see my family in month (I grew up in New zealand). I will stop at the war cemetery near where my parents grew up, and take a moment to thank those young guys who fought for us.
Thanks for the film breakdown. Never thought to look at the series in an artistic way.
When you go to the war cemetery, take my & many others’ prayers with you, Wizard. Kia Kaha.
If you are going to the cemetery near Margraten, please look up the grave of Richard Earl Mason. I was named for him, different last name. He was my father's cousin. They signed up for the army together in 1944 when they finished high school. They went to different training camps and never saw each other again.
Thank you for sharing your family's story. I'm an infantry paratrooper with the 1-501st PIR. My unit traces its lineage to those men depicted in Band of Brothers. We send a handful of lucky paratroopers to Normandy every year on June 6th to participate in the commemorative Normandy jumps. There's also a large plaque/statue of my unit's Geronimo crest in Eerde. I hope to visit it one day.
You may have gotten the wrong impression about the German soldiers Easy company encountered in Holland. Just before the Mission started, the Germans moved an entire elite Panzer Division into the area just by chance. The Germans were supposed to use that area of Holland for rest and refitting and the 101st and 82nd Airborne jumped right into them. That's why the British had such a hard time and casulaties. Hardly "kids and old men."
It's also why Winters makes the sarcastic comment about kids and old men again because the intelligence failed them on that mission (just expanding on what you said for her info, not taking shot at you)
9th SS and 10th SS Panzer
Spring of 1944 the 9th was involved in heavy fighting in the East, then sent straight into Normandy and was recovering from the Falaise Pocket. 10th went from fighting in the East, to Caen, and was sent to join the 9th in the same area.
9th and 10th SS Panzer were resting, recovering, and being refitted with new tanks, including the Tiger 2.
Yep, it was sarcasm, the last line, that went right over her head, tge children and old men were not who they ended up facing.
Contrary to populat belief, Bernard Montgomery was not exactly the best tactician ever.
George S. Patton had good reason to despise him.
@@Shutterbug5269 Monty liked overwhelming with numbers.
Patton knew everything came with costs, and he was willing to pay it. Patton knew that if he kept the pressure up then it would keep the krauts off balance.
Winter's was being ironic when he said "children and old men" as they were retreating. Those were some of Germany's best units that they were fighting. It was bad intelligence.
It wasn't. The German opposition was known about and the operation was compromised at Nijmegen on the first day, imposing a fatal delay on the advance to Arnhem.
@@davemac1197 it was and wasnt. Monty was warned with good intel before it cooked off and he disregarded the information.
@@Sturm01- Montgomery cancelled COMET at the last minute (troops were boarding their aircraft) on 10 September as soon as he received reports II.SS-Panzerkorps had moved into the Arnhem area and drew up an outline for the upgraded airborne operation MARKET with three divisions instead of one. Disregarding intelligence is a myth generated by A Bridge Too Far (1974). The failure to secure the undefended Nijmegen highway bridge by the 508th PIR in the first hours after landing, as Gavin had instructed, allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move in and reinforce the bridges. Cornelius Ryan failed to investigate this and more recent research has exposed the real story.
Sources:
Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011)
September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012)
Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012)
Little Sense Of Urgency - an operation Market Garden fact book, RG Poulussen (2014)
Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
@Sturm01
Myth. Montgomery expanded the operation and more than doubled the paratroop numbers after reports of more German forces. The original plan was just the British and Polish paras. Operation Comet. This was expanded into Operation Market Garden with the addition of the two American airborne divisions.
British 1st Airborne had the intel that "a battle scarred panzer division or two" was in the area refitting. That's why they took along over 50 anti tank guns, far more than the Germans had tanks there. No intelligence was ignored by Montgomery.
Listen to DaveMAC. He knows what he is talking about.
@@Sturm01- source?
For someone watching this show for the first time, I am so impressed with your insight and intelligent observations. For instance, picking up the theme of "loss of innocence," to include "replacements" as well as civilians, is just so spot on. (In contrast, consider the little boy, deprived of an innocent life, having his first taste of chocolate. Read broadly, it's a symbolic depiction of a return-to-normalcy that the allied forces are fighting for.) You point out filming techniques and methods that I have never studied, but you are also so perceptive about narrative devices. I can't wait to see what you share with us next! Keep up the great work.
I echo all those sentiments - these have been the most intelligent reactions I have found to date. I'm enjoying these immensely AND learning things I never knew. Thank you Jacqui !!
Also the younger boys helping with scouting
This comment is spot on. 👍
3:30 The ironic thing about Cobb is that he was one of the few combat veterans Easy Company had before Normandy. He fought in North Africa during Operation Torch.
And on the way from Africa he survived having his ship sank by a U-Boat. He did not jump into Normandy because he took a piece of shrapnel through his leg that put him in the hospital for a month.
He was also a lot older than most of the men of easy company as well, some as old as 10 years as he was born in 1912.
I've been wondering about Cobb. I know this show has taken a few liberties with some of the characters, but I was wondering if Cobb was really anywhere near as big of a pr*ck that this show makes him out to be.
@@bujin1977 my understanding from people who were far closer to the veterans than I was is yes.
@@bujin1977 He was court martialed for assaulting Foley. Col. Sink even told Foley he should have shot Cobb. Though in Webster's memoirs he recalls Cobb being good natured.
Greetings from The Netherlands. The woman who were so degrated slept with Germans or were collaborators who betrayed the resistance, jews etc. Not only the woman but also the men were 'taken care of' this way. I understand how you feel and we aren't proud of it either, but you have to understand the pure hatred the Dutch people had for Germans and those traitors at the time. 4 or 5 years of brutal occupation does that to you.
My grandfather was ordered to work for the Germans (Arbeitseinzats) but he went into hiding. He was betrayed by a Dutchman he knew from before the war. They send him to a concentration camp (KZ) to do forced labour in Kiel, Germany. He survived many bombing raids from the allies but he always hoped they would hit the factory he worked in. They did'nt. When he made a big mistake, he was send to KZ Neuengamme as a penalty. The atrocities he saw and suffering he went through, stayed with him for the rest of his life. He never told me what happened in Neuengamme, only that he was always hungry and sick. But till the day he died, he could'nt go to the market on Saturday. He lived in a city near Germany and on Saturday many Germans went to this market. All those german voices brought him back to Neuengamme. I studied what happened there and I think episode 9 will help you understand this a little bit more. The man who betrayed him did many more things for the Germans. After 5 years in prison he was released. My granddad saw him in the street one day and beat the sh*'t out of him. My granddad lost his job because of that, but another company understood him and hired him after he payed a fine to the police.
Your granddad did the right thing and showed much restraint.
Not just the Dutch, many people hated the Germans. The Eastern front was the closest humanity came to literal hell on earth. In Yugoslavia it wasn't much different. 1.7 million Yugoslavs died in ww2. Thats MORE than all of US, UK and Italy COMBINED.
Your technical analysis of the production is always appreciated, Jacqui. Thank you.
One way to look at the scene when Bull looks over to the woman as he has just stabbed the German in the face/head repeatedly, is that she, a woman...a civilian...pulls him back into humanity.
The actor said this in an interview
For anyone who doesn't know the history Norman Dike leads a defence during Market Garden whilst totally surrounded and got his medals for it and actually goes out and personally drags two men to safety. He is very hard done by in the book and show because it's likely he is suffering the same sort of issue that Buck is by the time we get to Bastogne but because people didn't really know him they didn't realise his behaviour was so out of character. Both Buck and Norman came out very different to the men they were when they went in to Market Garden. This is also the point where people watching start to realise Spiers might actually be right with his pragmatic philosophy to war.
There is also some information that Dike may have been wounded in the advance on Foy. So it's possible he may have been going into shock.
Dike is an interesting case, he was very clearly good in Holland, and yet, the men of Easy still called him 'Foxhole Norman', so he was not well like by them, there must be more to the story.
It was a combination of things. Personality clash, social class, and being the new commander out side the company. Winters was their man. Been with them sense the beginning and lead them through 3 major campaigns. Heyliger was also part of Easy from the start, then transfers to HQ company. Heyliger was from Concord Massachusetts. I think the men liked him just fin because of their history together, and he fit in social class wise with men like Winters, Lipton, Popeye, Bull, and Bill. A little bit of speculation on my part of course. With Moose being shot, Easy lost another known CO in a very short time span. I think this contributed to Dyke's difficulty in Easy company.
@@marinesinspace6253 Oh for sure. It's actually easy even in the show to draw parallels to Buck's behaviour and given the events of Market Garden and the subsequent deterioration of Buck it's likely we were seeing the same thing happening with Dike - the difference was they didn't know it was odd behaviour for Dike - they just thought that was what he was like. What is also omitted is he won a Bronze Star at Bastogne for personally dragging 3 men to safety. He wasn't a coward or particularly incompetent throughout his life but during his time with Easy Company he was acting very for want of a better word "spacey" and it gels with the sort of mental issues Buck was also experiencing.
Does not explain his deficiencies before the Bulge.
9:20 A little historical context here: The scene where the Lt. is getting shot in the neck (Lt. Robert Brewer) is a real event that took place. According to an interview with Major Winters, on more than one occasion he warned Lt. Brewer about going out too far in front of his men and presenting himself as an obvious target. Apparently, Lt. Brewer didn't heed Winters' repeated warnings.😕
@beesnestna9544 I'm assuming with a wound like that he died any idea what happened to LT. Brewer? Thanks for the cool insight.
@cossi499 go ahead and watch the full episode. As they're resting in the night Talbert says he survived and was sent to England.
@@k1ng_BL0C Like I needed more of an excuse to watch it through again. Thanks 😁
James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender met during the pre-filming "boot camp" Cpt. Dale Dye (the series' military advisor and the actor playing Col. Bob Sink) put the actors through and became the best friends they are today.
You have some of the most brilliant commentary I've ever heard. Well done! Band of Brothers is an absolute masterpiece in filmmaking.
6:08: "Quite a contrast to the last jump." On D-Day the paratroopers jumped at midnight hoping to use the cover of darkness for surprise. But the darkness made it so difficult for units to get oriented and organized that they didn't accomplish much until the morning, so for the rest of the war the paratroops just jumped at dawn and it worked much better.
While the confusion kept many of the units from getting to their objectives on a timely manner, it also cause problems with the germans. They were getting reports of paratroop concentrations all over the place and they couldn't make any sense of it.
I've seen dozens of reactions to Band of Brothers, but your keen insight on cinematography and themes is very refreshing. You're doing great, and I can't wait for the next episodes.
At 7:24 an old man sitting at a table is an actual member of Easy Company.
Ayup that's the real Babe Heffron with a cameo.
@@goldenhidespoiler. Delete this until she's done.
JACQUI, I don't know if anyone has made you aware of this little fun fact but at the 7:25 mark, the old man sitting in the foreground is the real live Babe Heffron!!🎉🎉❤
They gave him a cameo and what better guy to give it to?!!!😅
So glad that some of these guys were STILL ALIVE to see this show when it was released originally!!!
I never noticed that before! Thank you!
@@RDRussell2 YW
I'm turning 30 and I didn't know it was him. THANK YOU!
And just like that, any mystery & worry if he dies during the war has been spoiled!
@@Ernwaldo she's already through the series on patreon there Einstein! 😮😮😲🤔
Couple tidbits. "You wont be able to shoot as straight" comes from the fact a barrel has whip to it (like a baseball bat in slow mo). When it heats up, the weight of the bayonette can make the barrel bend (microscopicly) and make it less accurate.
When they enter the town, you see the officers turn their collars inside out. That's in case any snipers are looking for officers.
Lastly, this episode, along with episode 7 demonstrates how important front line enlisted leaders are.
Seeing and appreciating the emotional reaction after this episode, all I could think is "She is not ready for THAT episode". You guys know the one.
I'm never ready when I watch it, and I've watched it at least a dozen times.
@@jmnemonic99 Same!
An unfortunate part of war that we don't talk about, is how easy it is for us to turn on our neighbors. no group exemplified this more then the Dutch during WW2. every time the country changed hands, there was always a substantial group of people being willing to inform on, shame, and murder those around them. whole communities were destroyed by this inter-personal violence. the reasons ranged from "trying to survive" under Nazi occupation, to vengeance, all the way to pure sadistic pleasure at being able to get away with such evil acts.
there is no greater demonstration of humanity, than when it goes to war. we see the absolute best and the absolute worst we can do for and to one another. the highest virtues, and the lowliest sins.
Excellent analysis throughout! Most enjoyable reaction to BoB I've seen. You pick up on nuances most reactors don't catch, and so far you are spot-on. 👍👍
I’m enjoying your reactions to this amazing series!
The scene that bothers me the most in Episode 4 was the poor woman holding the baby, alone, ostracized, outside the town. She was shunned because she gave birth to a child produced by a German soldier. I always consider the real possibility that the child was created without her permission, it was “forced” upon her. So, 1st she has to deal with being r*ped (possibly), she gives birth in a war zone, then she is essentially “thrown in the trash” and left to survive on her own, if possible. The thought that this most-likely occurred many, many times is crushing.
Keep up the great work!
The single best commentary & analysis of episode four I’ve seen yet. Jacqui, you bring such an insight that is not only refreshing but intriguing. The way you correlated the innocence of the civilians, the fresh & inexperienced replacements & the unfortunate failure of Market Garden was unique. I’d never thought of it that way. Thank you, looking forward to episode five.
The color for dutch royalty is Orange. It's called the House of the Orange! Once upon a time it was a world power!
Conversely carrots where bred to be orange in their honour, being purple before that.
Roger That!@@Thetasigmaalpha
And carrots are more orange than oranges… 🤔
The Dutch Royals were that good, we invited them over to Britain to have a go!
@@alundavies1016🤦♂️😂
It's amazing how many people are in this show in smaller roles James McAvoy, Michael Fassbender, Simon Pegg, Tom Hardy are obvious ones
If you didn't know: James McAvoy & Michael Fassbender reunited again in X-Men. They were in that series four times.
Jimmy Fallon, too.
@@TheRedStateBlue Both Colin & Tom Hanks
Yes, for several of these actors being in this production was a big break early in their careers. Some became pretty big stars, others have become established character actors or have taken their careers in quite different directions.
@@fast_richardHardy was still in film school when cast for BoB. It got him noticed and likely led to his role in Blackhawk Down. James McAvoy & Michael Fassbender got noticed but needed a few more years to break out.
My grandfather was a replacement but in the Korean War. He was a replacement for the men who fought in the Chosin reservoir, and he said those men were INCREDIBLY tough for the shit they just went through.
Cobb was eventually discharged from the army with a dishonorable discharge for hitting a commanding officer. He was a bit of a dick. Colonel sink told the commanding officer he should’ve shot Cobb instead of court martialing him. It would’ve been easier.
9:26 the Lt that was shot eventually went to go work for the CIA. One of the easy company members who saw him got shot didn’t know he survived getting shot. The easy company member eventually ran into him in the pentagon or some other government building and it freaked him the fuck out lol
Hey Jaquie! I'm a Grip/Gaffer and I really appreciated you mentioning the lighting choices and their use of shadows. I feel like so many of the DPs I work with are a bit scared of using darkness to their advantage. They want the whole shot properly exposed and it KILLS me because there is such power in darkness if it's used right.
Poor lighting choices can absolutely ruin otherwise perfect shots. I've seen it so many times in otherwise excellent film.
Notice you saw less of Winters. This episode was meant to focus on the non-commissioned officers, the sergeants. They are the first-line leaders and trainers running the small fire teams and day-to-day business, the foremen to the officer's role of managers. If you address a sergeant as "sir", the normal response is, "don't call me sir, I work for a living."
NCO:
Not a "sir"
Can't be a "sir"
Oughttabe a "sir"
Little known fact though. Market Garden was actually the fastest allied advance against German opposition in the entire September 1944 to February 1945 period. It took nearly 100km of German held ground in just 3 days and though the final objective of Arnhem wasn't obtained, it did better than the Hurtgen Forest and Lorraine campaigns at the same time.
They captured 100km of dikes... A typical example of land captured that did not do anything for the army. The Arnheim campaign cost thousands of soldiers their life - and nothing was won with it. Who cares about how fast it was?
Great analysis.
Something i really liked about this battle is how it starts with almost (idk) 1 or 2 minutes of pure tactic movement from cover to cover by the soldiers, without music, without heroic Hollywood cliches. Just them advancing carefully, realisticly. But then it's also interesting how it develops and ends. As you said, you don't need to see a pile of dead bodies nor apocalyptic amounts of destruction to portray a defeat. You see the soldiers constantly losing ground and ending up in a "organized" retreat. They aren't all massacred; they don't flee like a crazy mob, or like in the climax of a Star Wars great escape; they just keep moving backwards into cover until they get in the trucks and leave. It's a realistic thing that we're not used to see in films.
09:36 Also, another detail i liked is when one of the replacements (Hashey) runs past the liutenant that was shot at the very beggining, and watches him bleed in slow mo, with a subjective sound design. I think it's implicit that the liutenant was a reeplacement as well (because there were also officers between the reemplacements). So, when Hashey sees this reeplacement bleeding, he's also seeing what could happen to himself, because of his lack of experience.
Market Garden was a failure due to the fact that it was high risk, but also because it was Montgomery’s plan and Monty didn’t get on with Eisenhower. It was also a complete stretch of resources to go roughly a hundred miles+ to capture as many of the Rhine bridges as possible. The intel was wrong too as the Children and Old Men tag given to the German troops. There were many Panzer Divisions retreating to Germany. The children and old men were mainly on the German side of the Rhine defending their Homeland.
With regards to the treatment of collaborators, this was the harsh reality of what the women had to do to survive. On the island of Jersey, these women were called “Jerrybags” as they virtually had to prostitute themselves for a meagre amount of food. When the Germans finally retreated from the Channel Islands there were NO dogs or cats left on Jersey and rats were fast becoming the next target for protein.
When the war ended, there was such deprivation in Holland that a famine was declared. People were actually dying of hunger. Such is the way of war and the fallout that ensues afterwards.
Montgomery didn't plan it, so please blame the planning on the people who actually planned it - Brereton at 1st Allied Airborne Army, and Gavin of 82nd Airborne Division compromised his own divisional plan at Nijmegen by dismissing a British request to drop a battalion north of the bridge, which was only guarded by a non-commissioned officer and seventeen men according to the local Dutch resistance leader.
The 'young boys and old men' referred to specific units at Arnhem that I bet you can't even name (SS-Panzergrenadier-Ausbildungs-und-Ersatz Bataillon 16 and Sicherungs-Infanterie-Bataillon 908 respectively). The intel was proven correct and was not the reason the operation failed.
The women having their heads shaved might have bit 'uncomfortable', but imagine how many of those townspeople lost loved ones to the Germans. The Germans that were helped, by those people being shaved or shot.
How would you feel after losing a loved one, or people you played on the playground with as you grew up?
I was trying to think of a good way to put this.
One of the few shows I can confidently say that it doesn't let up on the quality, from start to finish.
I would be thrilled to see you react to the movie Gettysburg.
Made in 1993, the movie is one of the greatest Civil War films ever made. The movie has remarkable loyalty to historical accuracy and to the book, The Killer Angels, which the film is based on.
The battle scenes are made possible by the hundreds of real reenactors from all over the USA.
Directed by Ron Maxwel, music composed by Randy Edelman, starring Jeff Daniels, Sam Elliot, Martin Sheen, Stephen Lang, and Tom Berenger.
I know you probably get so many suggestions and I understand you have a busy schedule. But I hope you consider watching Gettysburg as it is my personal 3rd favorite movie of all time (behind LOTR and Star Wars).
Something you quickly learn from studying history is that whenever someone says "The war will be over by Christmas!" you can be certain that the war will absolutely not be over by Christmas
If you look at Nick's helmet in the last scene that bullet went right through. Helmets only help with shrapnel no direct shots
One thing that scene made me think of - the helmets had chin straps, They were pretty much never used. Instead of the helmet flying off, a shot like that would have possibly broken his neck if the chin strap was fastened.
You need to understand that at the end of the episode, Winters saying, "Well, as long as they're only old men and and kids" was sarcasm. They were told that only old men and kids would be fighting them, but they found out the hard way that that intelligence was incorrect. In reality, they were fighting crack troops in their prime.
I like hearing a viewpoint that someone that's been to film School. Something tells me you passed and did very well.
Fun fact: the runaway tank that nearly ran over 'Bull' Randleman bears the divisional insignia of the British 11th Armoured Division - a black bull on a yellow field. A Bull nearly run over by a bull! It's a contrived in-joke because the Sherman tanks were not from 11th Armoured in reality, only the Cromwell tanks (the boxey square shaped tanks following behind) were correctly marked.
Most of the German vehicles in the production are not correct either, because there were limited choices of vehicles in running condition in England at the time of the production, so the same mix of vehicles make appearances throughout the series.
For anyone interested, the German unit at Nuenen were Panzerbrigade 107, which had Panther tanks and armoured half-tracks, so only the half-track was historically correct. The vehicle that ambushed the Sherman Sergeant Martin spoke to was never identified, but was probably a half-track with a 7.5cm close support kanon (SdKfz 251/9), which was hidden behind a hedgerow and not a house. Tank commanders did not have orders to avoid unnecessary damage to civilian property.
I remember a rebuttal to the "destruction of property" bit saying that if you told a British tanker that there was something worth shooting on the other side of a house, they'd keep shooting until they found it
@@ergopropterhoc- it's certainly a scene that has been conflated from two actions on different days in different places, the German vehicles are wrong, and the ambush vehicle was hidden behind a hedgerow and not correctly identified - the tankers reported a Mark IV tank but in reality probably a half-track with 7.5cm close support kanon (SdKfz 251/9). The tankers were probably familiar with the type of ammunition being shot at them and got that bit right, and Marks IVs were quite commonplace, but there were none in the area.
The panzerbrigade had a company of Jagdpanzer IV/L70 tank destroyers, but the current research (Kampfgruppe Walther and Panzerbrigade 107 by Jack Didden and Maarten Swarts, 2018) indicates they were unloaded last off the trains at Roermond and arrived too late to take part in actions on 19-20 September.
Sergeant Martin did warn a tank commander at Nuenen (if I recall his name was Lieutenant Benton of 44th Royal Tank Regiment) of the ambush, and I think the second part of what he said "well I believe you, but if I can't see him I can't shoot him" is correct. The part played by the house is certainly made up.
And in reality the tank didn't roll after Bull. It was stopped dead. A second shot then blew off the turret. There is a picture of Benton's lead Sherman on its side with turret blown off in Market Garden Then And Now Volume II by Karel Margry.
Did they work with the 11th or the Guards? Because the Guards was the spearhead of the land part.
@@ThumperE23
The Guards Armoured Division quickly sped through the Eindhoven sector when the Bailey Bridge was built. It moved on to Nijmegen on the 19th.
The 44th Royal Tank Regiment (4th Armoured Brigade) was also in XXX Corps and remained in the Eindhoven area and worked with the 101st Airborne
The 11th Armoured Division was there too, as part of VIII Corps, protecting the right flank.
It's strange - it never occurred to me before that the real "children and old men" in this episode are actually Easy Company, with the veterans and the new recruits. Thanks for giving me a new perspective on it, Jacqui. Good work.
Regarding the 506th's Unit Citation dispute, the US Army does in fact make a distinction between the replacements and the veterans. Both are allowed to wear the award, but in the case of the replacements, they are only allowed to wear it while they're assigned to the 506th. The veterans - those who were with the unit during the campaign or battle for which the citation was awarded - are allowed to wear the award permanently.
I enjoy your analysis as much as your reactions as you're watching it. Such good insight.
When 'Bull' Randleman bayonets the soldier, and the girl witnesses it... it's not just the woman that loses innocence.
As a soldier, he's already lost his innocence. But there are degrees of innocence.
He'd go home, people would know he was a soldier. Maybe call him a hero. But they wouldn't know specifics. And they wouldn't have SEEN him.
That woman seeing him do a thing that he knows is 'bad', well that's just another level of lost innocence for him.
I don't know if I'm explaining it right.
I love your perspective on the theme of loss of innocence. There’s also the child who’s never known life without war to note as well. After you made this point, I also thought about the reemergence of CPT Sobel at this point. Was it a way for Easy Company and the audience to harken back to their time of innocence when they saw him as a monster and now he’s looked at as just an annoyance. Great insights! Thank you!
In regards to that scene of Easy Company dropping into Holland: I actually own a framed photograph of the real drop signed by the real “Wild Bill” Guarnere himself! My great grandfather also served in the 506th PIR (the same regiment Easy Company is in) so this series has always been a wonderful bit of family history for me. Anyways, I love your intelligent, thoughtful, and insightful takes on this series and I can’t wait to see the rest of your analyses. Keep up the great work!
I sent an email to Mr. Guarnere via a website that his grandson created. I never expected a response, I just wanted to say thanks to a member of Easy Co. and that website was a conduit for that thanks. A couple of months later, I got a handwritten letter from the man himself. He thanked me for my letter and assured me that he, nor any of the survivors of WWII were heroes. I can only imagine how many people got handwritten letters from Bill. What a humble, truly outstanding group of men they were.
29:26 There is a military saying: "No plan survives contact [with the enemy] intact."
I used to repeat that to a chief independance duty corpsman whenever he bitched about how chaotic Marines are. I would add, we're practicing.
Having been a screenwriter in previous career, I have to mention something that they do with the action in BoB that too many productions ignore: they have the action tell a story instead of just being actiony images (character beating plot yet again). TBF, being based on true events does inform some of the choices, but things like showing Bull being a badass from getting caught behind the line up through having to regain his humanity despite a moment of survival ruthlessness is an excellent example of sequence-level 3-act storytelling woven within some true-life action.
There's a LOT of "show, don't tell" all the way through the series. The way they show all the different characters of the men in combat is sublime.
As to the shot of all the jumpers in the air, with the planes flying over, it really does look like that. Mass jumps were simply that. Dudes everywhere in the sky.
I really miss those. Jumping like that was fun.
This show came out during my childhood and its hard to find comparable shows/movies. Its set my standard for whats a great show pretty high.
Great reaction Jacqui. For a better understanding of what went wrong with Market Garden please watch A Bridge Too Far, an excellent movie about the operation.
Very inaccurate in many places though and it completely omits two American generals greatly responsible for the failure with their cautious decisions. Brereton and Williams of the USAAF.
Just wanted to say that I appreciate you censoring yourself during editing instead of self-censoring yourself verbally. Really makes your reaction more immediate and relatable. And considering the topic, your choice of words can't be faulted.
James McAvoy was all of 20 here.
IIRC he and Tom Hardy were the youngest in the cast and still in acting school
I understand film is your forte' but it is so refreshing to watch a reaction video and see a thorough breakdown and analysis of the episode and get a better understanding of the film making aspect. Some reaction youtubers just watch the film or show and at the end it's, "that was great, bye".
I did the complete Market Garden route with my cousin who lives there many years ago. I also visited a Canadian War cemetery with my Grandfather at the same time. His farm was occupied by Germans. Not once did my dad ever talk about that occupation nor did any of his 17 siblings. I can only imagine ....
The "children and old men" line was meant to describe "limited or not strong resistance" not necessarily that it was literally the case. Although there certainly were a lot of conscripts from conquered nations both within and outside of the "normal" draft age range. They were wrong about that for this operation though. Winters was being sarcastic about how bad the intelligence was by referring to it again at the end of the episode.
The old man line represents the German Volkssturm units that were coming on line due German casualties especially on the Russian front.
"Children and old men" were direct references to units known to be at Arnhem, specifically some Hitler Youth recruits completing their training with SS-Panzergrenadier-Ausbildungs-und-Erstaz-Bataillon 16 as replacements for 12.SS-Panzer-Division 'Hitlerjugend', and the local security battalion Sicherungs-Infanterie-Bataillon 908 composed of WW1 logistics troops deemed unfit for combat duties even in 1914-18.
This intelligence had nothing to with the unit encountered by Easy Company at Nuenen - Panzerbrigade 107 - a type of unit designed to fight on the Russian front, but was sent instead to fight the US 1st Army at Aachen, when the airborne landings resulted in them being diverted again to offload the trains at Venlo and Roermond in the Netherlands as the more pressing emergency. They concentrated at Nuenen as their headquarters for attacks on the MARKET GARDEN corridor at Son. The 506th had dropped behind the Wilhelmina canal defence line at Son, manned by men from the Luftwaffe Flieger-Regiment 52, a basic training unit that was told they were now in the Fallschirmtruppe (parachute troops) under 1.Fallschirm-Armee and renamed Fallschirmjäger-Regiment Hübner after their commander, later to be given the official number 24.
The Volkssturm were established on Hitler's orders of 25 September as a militia of 16-60 year olds not already serving in the military, just as MARKET GARDEN (17-26 September) was almost already over and therefore not involved.
Not exactly old men and boys. Those were front German troops and were ready for them. The old Dutch man was telling the US troops to leave because he knew the Germans were waiting in ambush.
Both old men and boys were specific units known to be at Arnhem, and the frontline troops that were bumped by Easy 506th PIR at Nueuen in this episode was Panzerbrigade 107 - a unit that was on its way to fight the US 1st Army at Aachen and then diverted to the Netherlands after the airborne landings. Niether the local security units or II.SS-Panzerkorps northeast of Arnhem were expecting an airborne attack so far behind their own lines - it was a complete surprise.
No plan survives the first encounter with the enemy. Respect to all those who did what had to be done for the greater good. I hope it lasts..
One of the best scenes is them pulling out of neunum in the trucks and the newbies looking at their heroes who are just as scared as them and the penny drops.
You should look into “A Bridge to Far” United Artist (I think) 1977. Sean Connery, Robert Redford, Micheal Caen and so many more. It’s a A list of actors
Really loved hearing your post-episode analysis on this one. You raise a lot of points that I strongly agree with and that I rarely hear other reactors talk about, so thank you!
If you want to learn more about this operation, watch “A Bridge Too Far,” loaded with big name actors made in the 70’s. Based on a book of the same name by Cornelius Ryan who also wrote “The Longest Day, “ a story about D-Day also with a famous cast.
"A Bridge Too Far" works pretty well as a spiritual sequel. I'm wondering if there is a "third part of the trilogy", let's say. I know "Tora! Tora! Tora!" is much in the same spirit, but it's not in the European campaign.
The Cornelius Ryan "trilogy" (based in books he wrote)
- _The Longest Day_ 1963
- _A Bridge Too Far_ 1976
- _Enemy At the Gates_ 2002
@@benschultz1784 Oh, i didn't know that. But i watched Enemy At The Gates, and even if it's a pretty good movie, it's a shame that it isn't focused on historical accuracy, like the other two are.
Very skewed and inaccurate in places though and some of it is historical nonsense.
Battle of the Bulge and the Bridge at Remagan. Both are a little hokey but do give you some idea of the action to get into Germany.
Where have you been? We are looking forward to your review of the remaining Band of Brothers?
I’m really looking forward to your reaction to ep 5. It’s my favorite episode from a filmmaking standpoint.
14:50 if you understand german that scene is much more powerful because you can literally hear the german soldier which is essentially a 17 year old boy say with a fearful voice "come out i will not harm you please come out!"
I think the treatment of the female collaborators is important to show, for most of the reasons you described. The Dutch had been under German occupation for years. Many of those people would have lost members of their families trying to fight the Germans during that time, so it's pretty understandable that they would be incredibly angry in that moment at learning of people who survived by lowering themselves and sleeping with the enemy. I can't say that I wouldn't feel the same if I were in their position.
But then we see the woman on the way out of town with her small child and you understand that some of these people were just trying to make sure their children survived, even if it cost them in the long run. War really shines a light on a lot of the grey areas we'd find easier to believe were just black and white.
Another amazing reaction. Looking forward to your reaction to episode 5, which is my favorite episode of the series.
Of all the reactions I've seen you really stand out, both by articulate the human side and as a professional. I hope you can make some master piece one day because you really truly get it.
The Operation depicted here, Market-Garden, was a debacle. The plan was to use paratroops to seize five bridges along a single-lane road and then have an armored column move along the road to the German border, relieving the paratroops as it went. But the armored column ran way behind schedule and only made it to the fourth bridge before being stopped by the Germans, so the paratroops at the fifth bridge (the British First Airborne Division, numbering 8,000 men) were surrounded and forced to mass surrender.
The plan was stupidly concocted by British General Montgomery and violated multiple principles of strategic planning: putting an entire army on a single road with no alternative routes if a traffic jam ensued (which it predictably did every time a vehicle broke down or was hit by enemy fire), no way to protect the flanks of the column as it moved (which allowed the Germans to ambush the column from the sides of the road), no way to supply the forward units dropped miles ahead of the column (which eventually ran out of ammunition), no line of retreat if the operation failed (resulting in the surrender of the 1st Airborne at the last bridge), placing the entire operation on a timetable that left no room for error (the column fell behind schedule by an entire day), resting the entire plan upon assumptions about what the enemy would do with no contingency if they decided not to do what you hoped they would do (they wrongly assumed that no Germans tanks were in the area), and relying upon lightly-armed paratroops with nothing but what they could carry on them to capture and hold five different bridges held by the enemy (the German tanks overwhelmed the paratroops).
That sounds like a Hollywood film. The real story involved about 24 bridges with a minimum of 10 needed to get to Arnhem and the ground forces reached Nijmegen still on schedule, only to find the 82nd Airborne had not secured the highway bridge over the river Waal. It imposed a fatal delay of 36 hours while the Guards Armoured Division assisted the 82nd in taking the two Waal bridges and the delay compromised the operation and sealed the fate of the British 1st Airborne at Arnhem.
The reasons for the failure at Nijmegen are complex but the 508th Regimental commander was a character like Sobel in that he was an excellent administrator and a poor field commander. He also did not perform well in Normandy, the regiment's first combat operation. General Gavin (Ryan O'Neal in the Hollywood film A Bridge Too Far) first dismissed a British request to drop a battalion at the north end of the Nijmegen bridge and then selected the 508th for the Nijmegen mission instead of the more aggressive and experienced 504th or 505th. He did instruct the commander, Colonel Lindquist, to send his 1st Battalion directly to the bridge after landing, but he failed to do so, believing he had to clear the drop zone and secure his other objectives first. He was even told by the local Dutch resistance leader Geert van Hees that the Germans had deserted Nijmegen and left only a non-commissioned officer and seventeen men to guard the highway bridge. The blunder allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move in and reinforce the city and its bridges.
The planning was not done by Montgomery - he ordered the operation and it was planned by USAAF General Brereton and his 1st Allied Airborne Army staff. The senior British airborne commander, Browning, was unable to object to Brereton's planning compromises because he had been politically neutralised during the operation LINNET II affair, in which Browning had threatened to resign over a too short notice period to print and distribute maps to the troops. The operation was thankfully cancelled and both men agreed to forget the incident, but Brereton had planned to accept Browning's resignation and replace him with Matthew Ridgway and his US XVIII Airborne Corps.
You made some factual errors:
1. British 2nd Army was to advance over three main supply routes, only the XXX Corps were on the central 'Club Route' secured by the Airborne, while VIII and XII Corps were on the flanks on 'Spade' and 'Diamond' routes. The 'Club Route' had a number of detours on 'Heart Route' in case bridges were blown and some of these were used. So your principles of strategic planning were violated by the mythology of A Bridge Too Far, not the real operation.
2. The British Airborne ran out of ammunition because they were not supposed to hold for more than four days - the delay was caused by the blunder at Nijmegen, only a consequence of planning by 1st AAA and James Gavin compromising his own divisional plan.
3. There was no assumption there would be no German armour in the area. This is another A Bridge Too Far myth. Operation COMET, involving only the British division dropping at Arnhem, Nijmegen, and Grave - was cancelled by Montgomery when he recieved reports that II.SS-Panzerkorps had moved into the Arnhem area. He proposed an upgrade to Eisenhower by adding the two US Airborne divisions, so British Airborne and the Polish Brigade could concentrate at Arnhem with their considerable anti-tank gun resources. This became MARKET GARDEN, but Brereton compromised many of the key features of the COMET concept in the planning for MARKET, such as deleting the double airlift on D-Day and the dawn glider coup de main assaults on the three main bridges.
4. The British 1st Airborne Division numbered 10,500 men and casualties totalled about 8,000, of which 1,485 were British and Polish dead, and 6,525 became prisoners - mostly wounded. Over 2,000 were successfully evacuated. Very few surrendered and only did so when out of ammunition.
Ask yourself why there is not a single 508th PIR trooper or a single airborne anti-tank gun in the Hollywood film and the possibility it might be propaganda designed for an American audience. The ad hominem attacks on Montgomery are not only insulting to a country that is one of the few friends America has in the world, is it also scholastically incompetent.
Sources:
The MARKET GARDEN Campaign: Allied operational command in northwest Europe, 1944 (Roger Cirillo PhD Thesis, 2001 Cranfield University, College of Defence Technology, Department of Defence Management and Security Analysis)
Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011)
September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012)
Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012)
Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
The 1st Airlanding Anti-Tank Battery At Arnhem: A-Z Troop volumes, Nigel Simpson, Secander Raisani, Philip Reinders, Geert Massen, Peter Vrolijk, Marcel Zwarts (2020-2022)
@@davemac1197 You may think you're defending the plan, but you actually just unwittingly pointed out the problem in your own logic. A plan that completely unraveled because one regiment-level commander didn't achieve his objective exactly on schedule is inherently a bad plan. A sound battle plan would have ASSUMED that multiple battalion- and regiment-level commanders would be late or fail completely, and would have built in multiple contingencies. "No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy," which is why the best battle plans don't rely on every mid-level commander being a tactical genius and everything working like clockwork, but instead provide multiple options for when things inevitably go wrong so that there's a greater chance that at least one option might work. Trying to put it all on the failure of Gavin is just proof of why the plan was so poorly constructed.
Contrast it with the way D-Day itself was planned. The Allies hit 5 beaches simultaneously knowing that they didn't need to hold all 5 in order to succeed. The possibility of division-level failure on 1 or 2 beaches was built into the plan. The problem with Market-Garden was that they needed to hold EVERY bridge, meaning there was no room for failure even at the regimental level. The plan would only work if every paratroop regiment was perfect. That's a bad plan no matter how you slice it.
No battle in the history of war ever went according to plan. The difference between winning and losing a battle, from the Greeks through Napoleon and until today, almost always comes down to which side built more room for failure into their plan and provided more contingencies against the unexpected. That was the problem with Market-Garden: there was almost no margin for error.
@@charlize1253- first of all, I'm clearly not defending the plan because the original COMET concept was compromised by Brereton for MARKET by deleting the double airlift on D-Day and the glider coup de main assaults on the main bridges. Browning could not object after already threatening to resign over Brereton's LINNET II plan. Gavin's 82nd Airborne divisional plan was also compromised when he dismissed the British request to drop a battalion on the north end of the Nijmegen highway bridge. So I'm certainly not defending 'the plan' - I am simply rejecting the ignorant notion the "plan was stupidly concocted by British General Montgomery" because that is totally wrong.
So the plan depended on everyone at least attempting to do their job, not an unreasonable expectation, and if Colonel Lindquist of the 508th had followed his pre-flight instructions from Gavin then it can be demonstrated (because three scouts from the 1st Battalion S-2 Section actually reached the bridge without firing a shot and waited an hour for reinforcements) that the 1st Battalion 508th could have secured it by road march before SS panzer troops arrived. The fact that didn't happen was not because of anything the Germans did, because the 508th had zero opposition until late on the first night, and not because it was planned to fail as often suggested by Gavin prioritising the Groesbeek ridge, because that is false as well.
It failed because of a series of bad decisions made by Brereton - Gavin - Lindquist, and flew in the face of British advice - not an unfamiliar situation in our history. Montgomery, along with 1st Airborne Division at Arnrhem, was badly let down.
@charlize1253
Just a couple of things.
1. The advance during Market Garden was actually the fastest allied advance against German opposition in the entire September 1944 to February 1945 period. Nearly 100km of German held ground taken in just 3 days. The road wasn't the issue. British armour got up that road quicker than Patton's armour got across the Lorraine.
2. British armour wasn't behind schedule. Despite having to build its own Bailey Bridge at Son after the 101st failed to capture the bridge there, the British Guards Armoured Division began linking up with the 82nd Airborne at Grave in just 42 hours. If the 82nd Airborne hadn't retreated out of Nijmegen and instead had the Nijmegen road bridge captured then British armour would have reached Arnhem on schedule. It was the US paras not having bridges captured which put the British armour behind schedule.
I don't know why you accuse Montgomery of breaking the rules of strategy when it was the air forces who did that. It wasn't Montgomery who refused to fly double missions on day one, refused to fly closer to the targets, refused coup de mains on the bridges etc.
Cobb the guy who got hit in the plane and never made the jump into Normandy was actually one of the only Regular Army in the unit. He had enlisted in the 30s and served in North Africa in an Armored division before volunteering for the Airborne.
A note about Market Garden, this mission was even bigger planning than Normandy, which took years in the planning, but was done in 3 weeks and the intelligence was so poor, just as an example, the Dutch resistance found that there were tanks where there should not have been any they informed the British was ignored, even photo recon verified it and it was still ignored. Drop zones were so far away from objectives, they didn't even have enough planes to ferry the troops. Watch the movie A Bridge too Far
Intelligence was definitely not ignored. The II.SS-Panzerkorps were known to be refitting in the Netherlands - the reason operation COMET was cancelled and replaced with the upgraded MARKET GARDEN. The Spitfire reconnaissance photo picked up obsolete tanks from a training unit that was correctly dismissed as obsolete and not even near Arnhem when the operation started. Ironically, they were laagered opposite the 506th PIR's drop zone near Son and were shot up by escorting USAAF fighter aircraft.
If you want to know what really happened, you need to read some books written by historians and not rely on a Hollywood film that's only 50% historically accurate.
Source:
Arnhem: The Air Reconnaissance Story, Air Historical Branch (Royal Air Force 2016, 2nd Ed 2019)
Recommended:
Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011)
September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012)
Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012)
Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
I love the fact that I'm watching this series with you. I saw this on it's original run and I've watched it many time since then and watching your reacting is the same as when I watched it for the first time.
The comment about "kids & old men" wasn't meant literally (that wouldn't happen for another ~8 months)...just that it would be inexperienced garrison troops, not front-line elite units. Unfortunately, Allied Intel dropped the ball hard on this one, as the Nazis moved the remnants of a couple of armored divisions into that area of Holland to rest and rearm after some serious fighting on the Eastern Front. The units were pretty chewed up from that fighting, tired and considerably understrength, but they were battle-hardened survivors of some of the nastiest fighting the Nazis would see during the war, definitely not the easy cakewalk that the Allies were expecting to run into.
As for the treatment of the collaborators, it's easy to see both sides...nearly 5 years of occupation, and under a rather ruthless occupying force to boot, makes for some pretty serious hatred and discontent, and getting publicly shamed for collaboration is pretty tame compared to what's happened to collaborators in other theaters of war; on the other hand, SA does occur during occupations, so it's possible that not all of those women slept with the Germans willingly and some were punished unjustly. It's hard to judge one way or the other without having been there.
Realizing that little kid has probably spent most of his life in an air raid shelter and has never had experiences we take for granted, like tasting chocolate, is a really eye-opening way of getting the point across to the audience of what the war was like for civilians in occupied areas...and that poor kid's first taste of chocolate being a D-ration bar (which were notoriously hard to chew, bitter, and generally tasted very little like chocolate) makes it all the more depressing.
It was indeed meant literally, because it referred specifically to SS-Panzergrenadier-Ausbildungs-und-Erstaz Bataillon 16 - training Hitler Youth as replacements for 12.SS-Panzer-Division 'Hitlerjugend', and the local secuirty unit Sicherungs-Infanterie-Bataillon 908 - comprised of WW1 logistics troops deemed unfit for combat duties in 1914-18. Both units were known to be in the Arnhem area.
Where most of the history books get it wrong was that the presence of II.SS-Panzerkorps refitting in the area was also known, but because the intelligence was obtained by 'Ultra' code intercepts of the German signals, the airborne units could only be briefed in vague terms ('sanitised' intel was stripped of specific unit identifications) of expecting heavy armoured counter-attacks at Arnhem, and given only to those who needed to know, such as the anti-tank batteries that went to Arnhem, in order to protect the source. Only senior officers at Army level and above knew of the existence of 'Ultra' until it was finally made public in 1974 with the publication of FW Winterbotham's The Ultra Secret, the same year Cornelius Ryan's A Bridge Too Far was published.
Ryan, who had terminal cancer and published his book unfinished, thought the British at Arnhem were effectively ambushed and failed to research the true reason the operation failed, which was the 508th PIR's failure to move on the undefended Nijmegen bridge in the first critical hours, as instructed by General Gavin. It allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move into Nijmegen and reinforce the bridges, imposing a fatal delay on the British Army's advance to Arnhem and sealed the fate of the British 1st Airborne Division.
Thanks for getting back to BoB! I've really been enjoying your insights as a film school grad. I do want to address your comments about the scene in which the Dutch women were being shamed. It's important to note that those women were Nazi collaborators - not just women who were being nice to the Germans in order to get by or to soften German soldiers. Note the guy from the Dutch Resistance stating that "...the men who collaborated are being shot". If they were truly collaborators, those women may have helped the Germans round up, arrest and kill Jewish people and people in the resistance. While that scene in which the women were shamed is shocking and uncomfortable, one must remember the outcomes of those women's actions. In many cases, those outcomes were arrest, and possibly torture and death. I write this not to scold, but to point out just how bad things often were in that time and place. Keep doing what you're doing. Your reactions and your insights are great.
McAvoy's character was Miller.
The key to Band of Brothers is each episode is seen through a different role. To me that's what makes the show amazing.
This was a tough wrap-up for you. Thank you for being open with your emotions.
"A Bridge to Far" was a classic, brilliant film about Operation Market Garden.
The German resistance the Allies encountered in Operation Market Garden was far from "old men and kids." Although caught by surprise, portions of nearby German units were able to combine their forces into make-shift divisions to repel the attack as well as a full German tank division that happened to be their for rest and refuling.
The German general in charge made a genius defense of the area. People like to say it was a bridge to far, but it was more a good defense.
@dansmart3182
The Germans still lost 100km of ground and retreated over the Waal River. They lost major Dutch towns Eindhoven and Nijmegen. Right after Market Garden the Germans put on a counter attack to try and push back to Nijmegen. This totally failed and British 2nd Army stopped them immediately.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Yes, the Allies made early gains because the Germans were taken by surprise and the Allied units that were assigned to capture the lower bridges accomplished their part of the mission but the Germans counter attacked and all but annihilated the British 1st Airborne at the northern most bridge at Arnhem which broke up the whole offensive.
@@vincentsaia6545
Well, the Germans were actually ready, prepared and defending on the Belgian/Dutch border. When the British Guards Armoured Division set off they were ambushed and lost nearly a dozen tanks right away.
The 101st Airborne failed to capture the Son Bridge.
The 82nd Airborne failed to capture the Nijmegen bridge.
Still, despite all this Market Garden took nearly 100km of ground. As I said, this was the fastest allied advance against German opposition in the entire September 1944 to February 1945 period. In the Lorraine, Patton took over two months to move 10km to Metz.
Dont get me wrong, the Germans reacted very well and broke off the tip of the spear. However, when all is said and done they did retreat 100km and lost a lot of ground. The British got closer to Germany. The British advance into Germany took place from the Nijmegen area captured in Market Garden, through the Reichswald.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Like I said, Believe what you want.
I enjoy watching analysis videos of movies and music that I love. Unfortunately, the TH-cam algorithm keeps dropping videos into my feed of "Random person watches something for the first time and adds nothing to it." If I'm bored, I'll watch them every now and then. That is why I clicked on you watching the first episode of Band of Brothers.
I was very pleasantly surprised. Your analysis does add a lot to the video, and even when you are not talking about the themes, cinematography, etc. I am sure that your reactions are genuine, and not over the top because you know that it will get you views. Well done.
Oh man, looking forward to see your reactions/analysis to future episodes… Like when they actually see the children and old men.
A British historian reacting to this miniseries took exception at the scene where the British tank operator refuses to take the American's advice and shoot through the building as an American dramatic trope: American's willing to do anything to win the day while the British insist on going "by the book." He said that British soldiers were just as willing to throw away the book to win in real life.
I actually don't take it in that American vs British trope. I took it in different ways. One the allies were trying not to cause to much collateral damage. Though i can not find any order in general that was given. Rules of engagements may of also been given in particular situation. One has to understand this series was taken from what the men of Easy Company thought. So whether this scene is true or not should be researched from what they told and viewed. This is not a historical documentary this is a retelling of what the men of E Company went through. Some scenes are altered or condensed and even different people are put into certain scenes. Even the Bastogne episode will have events that may never happened. The other view of this scene it goes to show that many of these units were pulled together for an operation and had little time to work with other units. It just happens the tank units here are British. Even if this was an American unit they would not have had time to work together and know how to operate together. Many historians I have talked to say this was most likely the true issue. Unlike Master's of the Air where they do over use this American vs British trope I do think this was more the fact you have two different units using to different methods of combat and had no time to work together and train for combine arms. It the Battle of the Bulge there are several instances were American mobile and Airborne have issues working with one another. It just happened in Bastogne I believe one of the Tank Destroyer commanders had had time working with airborne that enabled them to work together. In the end this is about the men of Easy Company and what they thought, did, experienced and remembered. If this account is part of one of their memoirs it should be told that is how at persons remembered it. If it is the creators of the show just making something up then yes it should be researched as to why they did it.
The historian was right. This episode was a conflation of two incidents (hence both types of British tanks present but should be separate) on two different days at two different locations - Opwetten on 19 September and Nuenen on 20 September. The German unit was Panzerbrigade 107 equipped with Panther tanks and armoured half-tracks for the infantry. The vehicle that ambushed the British tanks was not correctly identified by the British tankers (they reported a Mark IV tank) but probably a half-track with 7.5cm close support kanon (SdKfz 251/9), so the tankers got the shell calibre right. The vehicle was hidden behind a hedgerow and not seen. The whole thing about not shooting through the house I totally agree is Hollywood drama and they can't resist continuing the war of independence by other means - it gets incredibly 'old' here in the UK. Just stick to the facts guys, and you can't go wrong.
@@arakuss1 In writing the book Stephen Ambrose reported that he frequently had to deal with the fact that the surviving Company E members had conflicting memories of certain events.
@@davemac1197 I had no issue with what type of tanks were involved. There are several scenes that are mix of different events put into one scene. Masters of the Air has several of those scenes where they take to different incidents and meld them together or broke them apart to put in different time lines. I could totally be that the creators (Hollywood) put this line in there to do just that, however out of several of the lines they could have put in its very weak. I have scene this very discussion on other articles and video comments about this very thing. I am more leaning this was more of a comment the fact this whole operation was badly thought out. Along the idea these units had not worked or trained together. I can understand it gets old but I do know enough people in UK who do the exact opposite to Americans. I will say it once more this is not a documentary it is about the experience of the men in Easy Company of the 101st. There are plenty of times where veterans get the facts wrong but it is how they remember it. I am not sure if it was in this comment or the other I stated of whether or not this was the view of Martin or any others in Easy Company. If so then it should be put in. I wrote a paper on the conditions of the US Military during Vietnam and its deterioration of moral, discipline, and ability through out the war. I had many Vietnam Vets friends disagree with my paper at first. From their point of view they did not see this, mainly because most of them were not draftees but part of regular combat forces. My papers was on over all which included the growing number of draftees. What they saw and experienced is just as important as the facts were in my paper. They just represented a different point of view from a different group during the war. So true this tank scene might be Hollywood trying make fiction, but here one member of Easy view on the British.
"That worried me was the entire mission was under British command. It was strictly a limey deal, under Montgomery. The Brits were different fighters than us. We figured that out real fast in Normandy. They were fighting the war for years and were tired of war. The soldiers were lions--they fought like the Americans--but they were led by a bunch of damned donkeys. Ever hear that said? The ranks were handed down, like with British royalty. They weren't earned. So who knows what was leading their army. See, now I'm educating ya! Their leaders were very leisurely in their way of fighting. They liked to stop for tea and crumpets and set up housekeeping in the middle of a battle. True. Tea and crumpets. I saw it for myself.
Later in the book, Bill Guarnere returns to this thought:
Now, we never fought with the British in the war. They were supposed to come up and meet us in Eindhoven. The British were good soldiers. They had a lot of time in combat. But their leaders had them stopping for friggin' tea in every town. Maybe if they met their own troops in Eindhoven, not us, they would have fought better, instead of throwing two different armies together. That was a risk." So the question is then if the creators had statements like these to read and others in Easy Company maybe that is why it was put in. It doesn't have to be accurate as in true but this is what Bill Guarnere thought. (To add Tom Hanks actually read this and wrote a forward to Guarnere's book. I don't know if he read it before or after the filming of Band of Brothers.)
@@vincentsaia6545 It was known as well that Ambrose was a bit of an Anglophobe, in most of his books he mentions that the British were in the most part inferior to there American allies.
Awesome reaction Jacqui, thanks for posting.
Was literally just wondering when the next BoB episode was coming. Great timing
Also some Jacqui merch with "Jeeesss-uuussss" is definitely required
I really enjoy your breakdown of the story & the cinematography on your channel. ❤😊
26:23 Least we forget that while these women were publicly humiliated, the men that collaborated were killed.
I love how this episode highlights the work of the Dutch resistance. Holland was occupied for the majority of the war by the Germans, and they had a strong point during the occupation to exterminate as many people as possible, the regime was brutal. So anyone who collaborated after the fact was executed or marked. Some people did it just for survival which really puts perspective on how intense that time was to live in
The intel for this operation was terrible. You heard the talk about fighting kids and old men. in reality, they dropped over 40,000 airborne troops in total into the areas where two SS Panzer Divisions that had been pulled off the line for rest and repairs were "resting". They still managed to take two of the three objectives, but couldn't capture the final bridge at Arnhem where the majority of the British 1st Airborne Division was essentially deleted (80% casualties)
34,000 airborne troops and the intelligence at Arnhem was very accurate. The kids and old men referred to an SS training battalion training some Hitler Youth recruits and the local security battalion consisting of WW1 logistics troops deemed unfit for combat duty in 1914-18. The two SS panzer divisions refitting in the eastern Netherlands were known to be there and were known to be in a reduced condition from the fighting in Normandy, mostly at the hands of British infantry divisions. The British and Polish Airborne took 83 anti-tank guns to Arnhem, more than the Germans could send in tanks.
Of the 8,000 casualties at Arnhem, 6,525 were wounded that had to be left behind to become prisoners of war because they couldn't be evacuated across the river Rijn. 1,485 British and Polish Airborne were killed, and over 2,000 were successfully brought back. I find your choice of the word "deleted" a bit odd when talking about people.
The airborne objectives were about 24 bridges, including many alternative crossings, not just the three you see in the Hollywood film, but you don't see the 508th Regiment of the 82nd Airborne fail to secure the undefended Nijmegen highway bridge in the first few hours of the operation. This blunder allowed 10.SS-Panzer-Division to move into the city and reinforce the bridges, imposing a delay on the advance of the British XXX Corps that compromised the operation and sealed the fate of the British airborne division at Arnhem. You will never see that story being told in a Hollywood film, but it is in the literature.
Sources:
Lost At Nijmegen, RG Poulussen (2011)
September Hope - The American Side of a Bridge Too Far, John C McManus (2012)
Put Us Down In Hell - The Combat History of the 508th PIR in WW2, Phil Nordyke (2012)
Arnhem 1944: An Epic Battle Revisited vols 1 and 2, Christer Bergström (2019, 2020)
There is an interview with the Actor that played Bull. It is worth a watch and all the other interviews they did with them. This series being 20 plus years old and it was done so well. To pull those emotions out of everyone...
I’d recommend you to watch “A bridge too far” (1977) with a stellar cast, Michael Caine, Gene Hackman, Anthony Hopkins, Sean Connery and many others. It shows Operation Market Garden from the point of view of the units in charge of taking the bridges across the Rhine river.
Excellent movie. 👍🏻
Women who watch this series always seem to get really upset over a few women getting their hair cut off in a public shaming because they gave comfort to the enemy, but always have very little to say about the men who did similar getting shot as traitors. Men who watch this series naturally understand that there are consequences for treasonous actions and don't take much issue with what happened to either group. There's a lesson in there for young men who don't have much experience with women yet. Men and women see loyalty in very different ways. Women can easily see themselves in the women depicted in the series. They can easily imagine themselves sleeping with literal Nazis in order to find protection, safety, or just some better privileges and comforts when their homes are invaded and occupied, and their brothers and fathers have been oppressed or killed. Remember this lesson well. Apply it to all aspects of your daily life.
I lowkey love those "isn't-that" productions. not only the scope that needs a lot of good actors and a budget to afford them, but also a casting crew that reviews countless people and picks the ones who will later thrive in the industry. maybe also a self-fulfilling prophecy because "once your headshot is on the right table", but the intuition those casting ppl have is amazing.
The Americans were very well known for sharing their emergency rations (The chocolate bar) with kids in liberated towns. The sad thing is, that chocolate was apparently awful, the army specified that it should taste 'a little better than a boiled potato' to prevent soldiers from snacking on their emergency rations.
The saddest thing is when the soldiers shared the chocolate bars with the survivors, during the liberation of the camps, and those poor people ate themselves to death.
American chocolate has always tasted like sh*t, especially Hershey's which tastes absolutely disgusting. They nothing on British chocolate like Cadbury's and Galaxy.
@@ChrisCrossClash - British chocolate is pretty terrible too. Give me Swiss or Belgian any day.
@@ChrisCrossClashAs a Canadian, I get to enjoy Cadbury's and I know very well how deficient Hershey's is.
Watch a Bridge too Far if you want to see the entire background of the Market Garden operation. Long but will give you an understanding of the background behind this episode. The operation that was supposed to bring them home by Christmas... not. You are interested enough in the history that I think you would appreciat it.
It's only 50% historically accurate, but well made and has an entertaining script. It is a constant annoyance that Americans think the film is history though. It's Hollywood propaganda and entertainment.
No film is history, for that read the book. However a Bridge too Far is better than most and calling it propaganda is a bit much, that is what comes out of Hollywood today. Big name stars and glossing over some things is about as bad as it gets in the film.
The best laid plans go out the window when the first shot's fired.
Buck Compton was the UCLA Bruins baseball team's starting catcher before the war, which is why he was so good at throwing things.
To give you some idea of the scale of Market Garden, as the first paratroops were making landfall in Holland there were still planes taking off in England.
An excellent analysis of this episode! Thank you.
Another great reaction video Jacqui -loving hearing your filmic insight.
One thing you may have misinterpreted was the "only Old Men and Kids" comment. It wasn't made as comment on lives less valuable, but rather on forces less capable. Older men who were perhaps soldiers in WWI and now considered too old for frontline assignments would be grouped with older teens from the Hilter Youth, to form small regiments that could be sent to less important locations (freeing up the more capable soldiers for important work). The intelligence reports that Eindhoven was guarded by one of these less capable units was tragically wrong.
I'd love to see your reaction to Taika Waititi's "JoJo Rabbit" -a comedy about a young boy in the Hitler Youth realising the Nazis aren't as cool as he thought they were...
My great grandfather was part of the British 1st airbourne who took part in operation market garden, of which the objective was to take key bridges in Arnhem and hold them, as another commentor mentioned the intelligence about the German forces their was wrong and an entire division of German tanks that just happened to be in the area for rest and refit. The British set up their command headquarters in a hotel called the Hartenstein, long story short the Germans beat the British so bad that the only area the British had left was a small area around their headquarters by the end of it. My grandfather's name was Ron Turner and he was an part of the engineer core or ReME for short
that's a very shorthand account of what happened, I would recommend watching a bridge too far, the movie is spectacular and sums up the whole operation perfectly
The comment about the Germans being old men and kids… Allied intelligence expected weak opposition to the offensive. However, highly effective veteran units had recently been moved into the area to rest and refit after fighting in Normandy. So the German resistance was much stronger than expected.
The German units at Arnhem were well known, but what wasn't allowed for was the 82nd Airborne failing to secure the undefended bridge at Nijmegen. This was an unforced blunder that compromised the operation and sealed the fate of th Airborne at Arnhem. Not in the Hollywood film, obviously.
That was only the initial expectation when it was being thought up in early September. By the time it actually started two weeks later the operation had expanded in size to counter the stronger German forces and they knew it wouldn't be old men and boys.