I work in hydraulics for a living. Using cylinders was an easy choice for me. The power unit was given to me by a friend who scavenged it from a used tire changer. I machined the cylinders myself. It requires just over 8,800 lbs of combined thrust to raise each door. I don't know what type of linear actuator it would take but I am sure it would be expensive.
thank YOU... you just opened up a whole new avenue... i bought a wreck of a house and having the crumbling garage rebuilt has sucked away all my dubloons! had though of building garage doors, but i can't find the roll up kits anywhere!! but this is a great option, especially for the ' craftsman style' doors i want to built - makes it easier to build one big-ass panel than make a panel then cut it into 4 pieces!
Yes the process is relatively easy. I would use solenoid control valves with a motor relay and either prox switches or pressure switches. Simple controls and wiring. Don't know how safe it would be closing unless u used a photo cell or something similar to turn the unit off in the event some one or thing got in the way. Hope this helps?
Thanks for the video rdorrel. How much would it cost the average joe to source all the parts for this type of setup? Not the framing, but specifically the rams, pumps, etc from like Norther Tool or the like. I am really wanting to do this to my garage/living space. I tried calling around to some "manufacturers", but they really dont have a way to help the diy-er like myself.
Thank you for making this video. With this i have made up my mind that this will be the route I will go. I have read the comments and replies below but I do have one question that I don't believe was previously asked. Would you share the stroke length of the cylinders you used? I have a 12'T x 14'W and the stroke length is the only item I am on the fence with. Any help you could provide would be great. Thank you.
Jeremy. Since this video I have built two other hyd. doors on our other barn. Even though the newer doors are taller I used the same cylinders. 36" stroke x 2.5" bore x 1.25" rods. (older cylinders 1.5" rods) Extend pressure is only 900 PSI so you could probably get by with a smaller bore. I chose a 2.5" bore because I wanted a minimum of 1.25" rods for column strength. Maybe overkill but I never worry about having them open on windy days. Hope this helps and good luck with your project. I have never been sorry I chose this type of door.
@@jpaul720 Hello Jeremy. I retired three years ago. Most likely you will find the best prices online. I built the first 6 cylinders but purchased the last four. It's a low duty cycle so you won't need an industrial cylinder. You can find them on ebay, amazon, bailey hyd, dalton hyd, etc. I prefer welded cylinders but most often tie rod cylinders are cheaper. Good luck!
@@rdorrel I have another question for you. Do you have any flow dividers inline between the valve and 2 cylinders per door to make sure one cylinder doesn't go up faster than the other and cause the door to twist?
@@jpaul720 The doors in this video do not have any type of flow dividers or flow controls and work very well. I did build a set for another barn which were much taller and used smaller diameter hose (1/4" I had laying around). This combination did not work as well so I installed adjustable flow controls to control the up and down speeds. I am confident if I had used oversized hoses (1/2") like the application shown above it would have worked better. The door weight, stiffness, and location to the power unit will determine if you may need any type of flow control. The oil will always go to the easiest path of resistance. Larger hose diameters create less pressure drop. I guess I would suggest putting everything together and try it before you invest in any type of flow control. Good luck.
They look great, do you think a pneumatic system would work for a 9ft h x 13.5ft w door weighing 250kg (573 lb). Can you explain how you calculated the required thrust "It requires just over 8,800 lbs of combined thrust to raise each door" ? Thanks in advance.
Hello Tom. I did not use a Calculation for the cylinder to size it. I knew how much column strength I wanted for the rod diameters (1.50") and chose the smallest bore (2.5") which allowed me to build a double acting cylinder with that rod diameter. From experience I knew this combination would build more thrust than I needed. My doors weigh approximately 800 lbs and are 11' tall. Back to the rod diameter. 1.5" is overkill but I wanted something which could with stand more punishment than the wind could dish out without flexing. Air would work but has a few draw backs vrs hydraulic. First is the available amount of pressure? A standard compressor usually stays within the 90-120 PSI range? To gain the same thrust as a hydraulic system you will need a much larger bore. Also Air compresses and may not operate as smoothly as hydraulic. One other consideration? Air cylinders, fittings, and control components may not seal well enough to hold the load for extended periods of time without leaking down? Hope this helps? Good luck with your project!
In a double acting system the only displacement change is the area of the cylinder rod from full extend to retracted. Each of my cylinders only draw 3.13 cu.in. of oil from the reservoir for each inch of extension travel. Of course there needs to be a reserve capacity to eliminate the possibility of cavitation. Most systems require an additional capacity to help with heat build up. Unless the doors are going to have a high duty cycle heat build up should not be a problem. My advise would be to make sure you have a minimum of 4" of oil in the tank when all the cylinders on the circuit are at full extension. This should eliminate or minimize any chance of cavitation. Hope this helps.
I'm in the process of building one like this, what did you use for hinges? And how did you know what size hydraulic cylinder to use? Anything your regret or would change?
Hello. I had some new old stock cargo trailer hinges laying around. I suspect any heavy duty hinges would work. I was more concerned about column strength than thrust. I chose a 1.25" rod diameter and 2.5" bore. (overkill but strong) It requires only around 900 PSI to raise the doors. I have zero regrets. Over a period of a long day they will drift down a little bit which is not a problem for me. It would be fairly easy to add pilot operated checks or counter balance valves to the extend side of the cylinders to correct the drift. Hose diameter can affect the balance (left to right). I used 1/2" hose (larger than necessary for the pump flow) because I already had some. It works great. On the second set of door in a building not shown I used 1/4" hose because I already had some. Although the velocity was appropriate the added back pressure from the longer hoses on the far side cylinder vrs the closer cylinder caused some out of sync issues. Since I was too lazy to replace them with larger diameter hoses I installed variable flow controls in the circuits to correct the problem. Bottom line, larger hoses work better for balanced flow. Good luck with your project.
@@rdorrel Thank you Sir, I see in previous comments that you used 36 in stroke. I am considering a 48 in stroke for a 14 ft tall, Do you think that would be too much or would that work?
@@redneckdadgtcj I the second pair of doors i built are 14' and they have worked well also. The weight of the door is always a consideration. I would recommend counter balance valves for added safety. If mounted at the load port the cylinder cannot retract without pilot pressure from the opposing port even if a hose from the control valve should fail.
So I had a delicate come up. I got my door built and working. But it only goes up about 1/2 way. I have 48 in cylinders. The are mounted on the door at about 54 in up. Then are at rought a 30 degree angle off my door frame. Would mounting the rams higher make the door go up further?
@@redneckdadgtcj Yes. The closer the cylinder mounts are to the hinge center line the further the door will open. I used a drawing program to determine the distance. Trial and error will work but takes more time. Good luck.
Great job... What size pump are you using; HP, gpm and psi? I know you said you made the cylinders yourself. What cylinders would you recommend. I have a door about the same size as yours, 14' wide x 12' tall. Weighs about 1000 lbs.
Hello Steve. I used a 2.5" bore with a 1.5" rod. I did not need the amount of thrust the 2.5" bore can create under full pressure but I wanted the column strength of the 1.5" rods on windy days. My doors are 12' wide x 11 foot tall and only requires around 400 PSI to raise. I have the relief set @ 900 PSI. The power unit is only 2HP. If I ever figured out the GPM I have forgotten. With only two HP @ 900 PSI it's roughly about 4 GPM. Although your doors are larger I don't believe you will need larger cylinders. The cylinders I built are rated for 3000 PSI and will create14,700 lbs of thrust for each cylinder at that pressure. Having pressure will lift the doors. GPM will dictate the speed of which they operate and the combination of the two will dictate the amount of HP you need. In other words 1 GPM at the same pressure will product the same amout of thrust as a 100 GPM pump at the same pressure. It will just move 100 times faster and require 100 times more HP. Hope this helps?
Sorry for the delayed response. Google changed something and my previous attempts to respond were unsuccessful. My doors are 12 x 11 Please read my response to Steve for more details.
I work in hydraulics for a living. Using cylinders was an easy choice for me.
The power unit was given to me by a friend who scavenged it from a used tire changer. I machined the cylinders myself. It requires just over 8,800 lbs of combined thrust to raise each door. I don't know what type of linear actuator it would take but I am sure it would be expensive.
thank YOU... you just opened up a whole new avenue... i bought a wreck of a house and having the crumbling garage rebuilt has sucked away all my dubloons! had though of building garage doors, but i can't find the roll up kits anywhere!! but this is a great option, especially for the ' craftsman style' doors i want to built - makes it easier to build one big-ass panel than make a panel then cut it into 4 pieces!
Yes the process is relatively easy. I would use solenoid control valves with a motor relay and either prox switches or pressure switches. Simple controls and wiring. Don't know how safe it would be closing unless u used a photo cell or something similar to turn the unit off in the event some one or thing got in the way. Hope this helps?
Good job man... Does anyone know if you can set a hydraulic to stop automically at a certain point? There must be a way...
Thanks for the video rdorrel.
How much would it cost the average joe to source all the parts for this type of setup? Not the framing, but specifically the rams, pumps, etc from like Norther Tool or the like.
I am really wanting to do this to my garage/living space.
I tried calling around to some "manufacturers", but they really dont have a way to help the diy-er like myself.
Where did you get the hydraulic struts and motor from?
Where is the best place to buy cylinders?
Probably on line. There are discount hydraulic suppliers. Northern, bailey, dalton etc,
Thank you for making this video. With this i have made up my mind that this will be the route I will go. I have read the comments and replies below but I do have one question that I don't believe was previously asked. Would you share the stroke length of the cylinders you used? I have a 12'T x 14'W and the stroke length is the only item I am on the fence with. Any help you could provide would be great. Thank you.
Jeremy. Since this video I have built two other hyd. doors on our other barn. Even though the newer doors are taller I used the same cylinders. 36" stroke x 2.5" bore x 1.25" rods. (older cylinders 1.5" rods) Extend pressure is only 900 PSI so you could probably get by with a smaller bore. I chose a 2.5" bore because I wanted a minimum of 1.25" rods for column strength. Maybe overkill but I never worry about having them open on windy days.
Hope this helps and good luck with your project. I have never been sorry I chose this type of door.
@@rdorrel Thank you very much. You have been extremely helpful. If I read correctly, you work with hydraulics. Do you build and sell cylinders?
@@jpaul720 Hello Jeremy. I retired three years ago.
Most likely you will find the best prices online. I built the first 6 cylinders but purchased the last four. It's a low duty cycle so you won't need an industrial cylinder. You can find them on ebay, amazon, bailey hyd, dalton hyd, etc. I prefer welded cylinders but most often tie rod cylinders are cheaper. Good luck!
@@rdorrel I have another question for you. Do you have any flow dividers inline between the valve and 2 cylinders per door to make sure one cylinder doesn't go up faster than the other and cause the door to twist?
@@jpaul720 The doors in this video do not have any type of flow dividers or flow controls and work very well. I did build a set for another barn
which were much taller and used smaller diameter hose (1/4" I had laying around). This combination did not work as well so I installed adjustable flow controls to control the up and down speeds. I am confident if I had used oversized hoses (1/2") like the application shown above it would have worked better. The door weight, stiffness, and location to the power unit will determine if you may need any type of flow control. The oil will always go to the easiest path of resistance. Larger hose diameters create less pressure drop. I guess I would suggest putting everything together and try it before you invest in any type of flow control. Good luck.
Thanks!
They look great, do you think a pneumatic system would work for a 9ft h x 13.5ft w door weighing 250kg (573 lb). Can you explain how you calculated the required thrust "It requires just over 8,800 lbs of combined thrust to raise each door" ? Thanks in advance.
Hello Tom. I did not use a Calculation for the cylinder to size it. I knew how much column strength I wanted for the rod diameters (1.50") and chose the smallest bore (2.5") which allowed me to build a double acting cylinder with that rod diameter. From experience I knew this combination would build more thrust than I needed. My doors weigh approximately 800 lbs and are 11' tall.
Back to the rod diameter. 1.5" is overkill but I wanted something which could with stand more punishment than the wind could dish out without flexing.
Air would work but has a few draw backs vrs hydraulic. First is the available amount of pressure? A standard compressor usually stays within the 90-120 PSI range? To gain the same thrust as a hydraulic system you will need a much larger bore. Also Air compresses and may not operate as smoothly as hydraulic. One other consideration? Air cylinders, fittings, and control components may not seal well enough to hold the load for extended periods of time without leaking down? Hope this helps? Good luck with your project!
Thanks rdorrel
What's the reservoir capacity? How many total gallons you have in system?
In a double acting system the only displacement change is the area of the cylinder rod from full extend to retracted. Each of my cylinders only draw 3.13 cu.in. of oil from the reservoir for each inch of extension travel. Of course there needs to be a reserve capacity to eliminate the possibility of cavitation. Most systems require an additional capacity to help with heat build up. Unless the doors are going to have a high duty cycle heat build up should not be a problem. My advise would be to make sure you have a minimum of 4" of oil in the tank when all the cylinders on the circuit are at full extension. This should eliminate or minimize any chance of cavitation. Hope this helps.
I'm in the process of building one like this, what did you use for hinges? And how did you know what size hydraulic cylinder to use?
Anything your regret or would change?
Hello. I had some new old stock cargo trailer hinges laying around. I suspect any heavy duty hinges would work. I was more concerned about column strength than thrust. I chose a 1.25" rod diameter and 2.5" bore. (overkill but strong) It requires only around 900 PSI to raise the doors. I have zero regrets. Over a period of a long day they will drift down a little bit which is not a problem for me. It would be fairly easy to add pilot operated checks or counter balance valves to the extend side of the cylinders to correct the drift. Hose diameter can affect the balance (left to right). I used 1/2" hose (larger than necessary for the pump flow) because I already had some. It works great. On the second set of door in a building not shown I used 1/4" hose because I already had some. Although the velocity was appropriate the added back pressure from the longer hoses on the far side cylinder vrs the closer cylinder caused some out of sync issues. Since I was too lazy to replace them with larger diameter hoses I installed variable flow controls in the circuits to correct the problem. Bottom line, larger hoses work better for balanced flow. Good luck with your project.
@@rdorrel Thank you Sir, I see in previous comments that you used 36 in stroke. I am considering a 48 in stroke for a 14 ft tall, Do you think that would be too much or would that work?
@@redneckdadgtcj
I the second pair of doors i built are 14' and they have worked well also. The weight of the door is always a consideration. I would recommend counter balance valves for added safety. If mounted at the load port the cylinder cannot retract
without pilot pressure from the opposing port even if a hose from the control valve should fail.
So I had a delicate come up. I got my door built and working. But it only goes up about 1/2 way. I have 48 in cylinders. The are mounted on the door at about 54 in up. Then are at rought a 30 degree angle off my door frame.
Would mounting the rams higher make the door go up further?
@@redneckdadgtcj Yes. The closer the cylinder mounts are to the hinge center line the further the door will open. I used a drawing program to determine the distance. Trial and error will work but takes more time.
Good luck.
Great job... What size pump are you using; HP, gpm and psi? I know you said you made the cylinders yourself. What cylinders would you recommend. I have a door about the same size as yours, 14' wide x 12' tall. Weighs about 1000 lbs.
Hello Steve. I used a 2.5" bore with a 1.5" rod. I did not need the amount of thrust the 2.5" bore can create under full pressure but I wanted the column strength of the 1.5" rods on windy days. My doors are 12' wide x 11 foot tall and only requires around 400 PSI to raise. I have the relief set @ 900 PSI. The power unit is only 2HP. If I ever figured out the GPM I have forgotten. With only two HP @ 900 PSI it's roughly about 4 GPM. Although your doors are larger I don't believe you will need larger cylinders. The cylinders I built are rated for 3000 PSI and will create14,700 lbs of thrust for each cylinder at that pressure. Having pressure will lift the doors. GPM will dictate the speed of which they operate and the combination of the two will dictate the amount of HP you need. In other words 1 GPM at the same pressure will product the same amout of thrust as a 100 GPM pump at the same pressure. It will just move 100 times faster and require 100 times more HP. Hope this helps?
What are your door sizes? I would like to build a few of these for my shop.
Sorry for the delayed response. Google changed something and my previous attempts to respond were unsuccessful. My doors are 12 x 11 Please read my response to Steve for more details.
This is a great job and good video. What did you use for the Door hinges?
Thks for your comments. I had some new surplus heavy duty trailer door hinges which worked real well for me.
Epic!!!
Wholly shit is that loud. Lmao!