The big difference between Shaq and Dwight is that when the physicality wasnt enough to have an easy time. Shaq had that level of finesse and skill that made him unguardable. Where as Dwight never developed that finesse. His post moves were super basic and stiff.
Facts. People forgot how good Shaq’s footwork was. They only remember how strong he was. Not to mention, he also had great touch under the rim especially with his hook shot.
Shaq was on the tail end of old school basketball where everyone played hard defense even the little guys. You couldn’t survive unless you had something besides strong and tall. Dwight came in when the game transition and ever had that experience. If they had trained him in the old school way he would have been a lot better. People forget old school basketball would have guys taking each other heads off
@@championsforlife1234 Yepp Shaq was very skill as an offensive player. But people usually dismiss it because of how dominant he was with his physical tools. He had underrated hands and was a better passer than he's given credit for.
@@Plague_Doc22 Shaq was a great passer. That's what allowed him to thrive in the triangle offense. He was constantly searching for cutters and shooters. Good passing is like good shooting for post players. It opens up angles by merely being a threat to pass.
The game was moving away from relying on post up bigs anyways. He was an elite roll man and finisher. A stronger and more athletic version of AD. If he had accepted that role earlier, he would've had more success with his first stint with the Lakers and with the Rockets instead of being a journey man
Ya we have seen players like Olajuwon who worked on their passing qnd their scoring because he knew that he kinda sucked at both of those and eventually this led to him winning an FMVP and MVP. Even Michael Jordan increased his passing and how carefully his shot selection was when he faced the Jordan Rules Pistons
@@injusticeanywherethreatens4810 Olajuwon never, ever sucked at scoring in the NBA. He might have worked on it as he was learning the game at his young age. And he definitely added different moves to his game. But he never, ever sucked at scoring in the NBA.
So basically Dwight had no touch around the basket and couldn’t finish through contact and was terrible from the line and couldn’t handle the ball so strong bigs really bothered him.
Good rundown. As someone who has studied the low-post game for a while, I have determined the following aspects to success: 1. A reliable go-to move. This is the bread-and-butter move of the player, and he/she should be able to hit it 80+% of the time if he/she gets to their spot and isn't too well-defended. 2. SHOOTING. Every great low-post scorer was able to shoot. Even a bully like Moses Malone had a decent turnaround jump shot he could use if he got walled off to the basket. Even Shaq, who we think of as just an big but agile dunking bully, had a reliable middle righty jump hook and a turnaround counter bank shot. A good close to mid-range shot is basically the "air force" or "long range artillery" of the post game. It keeps defenders honest and closer to you to bite on your shot, helping to open up driving and passing angles. 3. Willingness to pass if double-teamed. By showing you are willing and able to make dangerous passes out of the post when double-teamed, it helps open the game Dwight Howard did not have 1 or 2, and 3 was kinda iffy compared with the other great post players. For 1, Howards go-to move was sort of a running righty hook from the left block towards middle (as you noted early in this video). But it wasn't that successful if the defender was able to absorb his initial blow and push him a few feet further from the basket. Once he was a few feet further than his comfort zone, his hook shot became more of a wild shot put. For 2, Howard simply had no shooting ability whatsoever. He had zero jump shot, and his hook shot was iffy at best. If a defender was able to prevent him from getting a few feet from the basket, they did a good job because he wasn't able to counter with a reliable jump shot or hook of some sort. Basically, because he lacked 2 (shooting), he also lacked a good 1 (reliable go-to move). As you mentioned at the end of the video, it is more of a testament to Howard's other abilities (athleticism, agility, strength, willingness to bang) that he was able to be a 20 ppg scorer in his prime. If he had even a modicum of 1 or 2, he would have easily been a 25-28 ppg scorer IMO, if not more. And of course, hitting his FTs at 65+% would have upped his average even further and prevented teams from a "hack a Dwight" strategy. Finally, I would personally note that I didn't think that Kendrick Perkins was that great of a defender. He was strong, reasonably agile, and had quick hands. But much of his success was because (IMO) post defenders were allowed to get away with murder ever since Shaq eviscerated them in the early 2000's with the 3-peat Lakers. Prior to that, post defenders were only able to hold position before the post catch once the defender established position. If they did what Perkins did at 1:24 (shove Howard out with both hands after Howard got a deep seal position), it would have been called a defensive foul. IMO, if Perkins did all the things that he got away with (which helped give him his "defensive-stopper" and "Dwight stopper" reputation) in the eras prior to 2000's Shaq era refereeing, he would have been in foul trouble every single game. He probably would have adjusted to earlier rules, and probably would have still been a solid to great defender. But he wouldn't have had the same defensive reputation. The same goes for James Harden's reputation as being a decent post defender. It's only because he's a reasonably big and strong body, and he's allowed to shove the post player out before the catch with both hands.
At first i was like: yeah but dwight played perkins in 2009 as well when Orlando beat them. Then i saw dwightt only averaged 16 points in that series. Finishing through contact is such an important skill if your main weapon is physicality.
Every player peaks. It's fans and media that decide in their minds if they thought there peaks were going to be better then they actually were or longer then they actually were
Once the pandemic happened I stopped watching sports, but I'm slowly getting back into it and I gotta say, these videos have been really good and insightful. I am definitely starting to ease back into the NBA at least, with a sprinkle of boxing / ufc, we'll see. Anyways, great video!!
In this Celtics series (2010), Dwight actually had a solid series. He had a couple bad games but he still averaged around 22/11 and 3 blocks. But yes I agree with all the points you made. He never really developed that consistent touch & finesse around the basket but was a freak athlete. Eventually that catches up with basketball players.
@@wengz717 He won three straight Defensive Player of the Year Awards, two block titles, and five rebounding titles from 2008-2013, and almost had a championship under his belt. Pretty strong defensive peak in NBA history.
@@1023nick Still not in the same realm as Jokic winning back to back MVP's and a NBA championship. Dwight was a beast but he is not and never was in the tier of players like Lebron, Jokic, Curry, Kobe. He is in the level below that with dudes like Barkley, Nash, Malone. Still all-time great players but not on the same level as the guys above.
@@TrueGuardify that's the whole point of the video, why he didn't make it to their level during his prime. Doesn't mean they can't be compared when he was just a tier below. His defensive achievements were and still are legendary.
Interesting, can you add on why the Celtics didn't put 2008 DPOY KG on Dwight? I assume it's because Perk wouldn't keep up with Rashard Lewis but I'd love to hear your take on that
It's not that. Perk's most notable role is a post defender/rebounder. Putting him out on the perimeter and letting him guard a spot up shooter means you are not using his best asset. KG being used as a help defender would be better suited since he is a more versatile defender. As the video also showed, Dwight had a harder time scoring when he can't overpower someone down low and he could definitely bully KG more than he can Perkins.
Dwight Howard peak was great. At rebounding, shot blocking, defense, catching lobs, put back dunks. So what his post game never became elite. It was pretty damn good. He won defensive player of the year three times.
got curious abt how dwight was against jokic in 2020 when he got his ring. of course it wasnt the 2x mvp jokic but also it was dwight way past his prime
Dwights plus minus was pretty good in that series. He was very annoying to watch, constantly trying to bait/provoke jokic who ofcourse stayed his stoic self
Also another thing. Howard nevee had the type of passing that those monstrosities like Jokic ans Bill Walton have therefore he couldnt really exploit double teams to his full potential. Just imagine if Dwight had the kind of passing that Jokic or Walton had.... it is not hard to imagine him really hurting the Lakers and Celtics when they doubled him, no? I would say that something that made Shaq so lethal offensively was his scoring AND his ability to pick up the pieces of a shattered offense when Kobe got injured . The Lakers played at an above 55 win pace when Kobe was injured during the Lkaer 3peat years ...cause even without a secondary playmaker like Kobe Shaq knew how to make some absolutely nasty reads that would shock the enemy team's defense. Go watch some Shaq and Jokic videos. See how carefully they read the defense when they start getting double teamed. Youll never see such things from Howard.
Hes limited, no go to move like Shaq and kareem, chuck already mentioned that that years ago. torkoglu was the main offensive guy back then in orlando.
I think the top 75 snub really skewed the perspective on Dwight. He's had a better career yes, but for real it was frustrating watching him play in his prime on offense sometimes. Is he still top 75? IMO I'd take Tmac, Vince, Sid Moncrief, and Alonzo Morning over Dwight.
This video is prime example of why he wouldn't fit on the warriors. He'd get hoed by every big man even the skinny ones and his game is way to one dimensional
Then in Game 2. Adjustments were made and he dropped 30.... Your over hyping Perkins, and under hyping the help defense..... with your "big man" talent argument. You're disregarding he beat Tyson Chandler to get to the C's... The previous year they beat that "Best pound for pound defender in the post" Perkins in the Playoffs......
You can make this video about any NBA super star and there weakness, but you choose DH. I'm starting to wonder if Shaq is paying these guys to make videos about Dwight. This dude just said LeBron can take a foul and finish better than Dwight Howard??????? Let Bron get man handled Garnet, Sheed and Perkins all game then come back at me with this bull!
Howard is overrated due to nostalgia. Everyone bashed Howard’s offensive game back then. I like Alonzo better than Howard. Howard only averaged 17 points per game against a washed up Shaq.
The big difference between Shaq and Dwight is that when the physicality wasnt enough to have an easy time. Shaq had that level of finesse and skill that made him unguardable. Where as Dwight never developed that finesse. His post moves were super basic and stiff.
Facts. People forgot how good Shaq’s footwork was. They only remember how strong he was. Not to mention, he also had great touch under the rim especially with his hook shot.
Shaq was on the tail end of old school basketball where everyone played hard defense even the little guys. You couldn’t survive unless you had something besides strong and tall. Dwight came in when the game transition and ever had that experience. If they had trained him in the old school way he would have been a lot better. People forget old school basketball would have guys taking each other heads off
@@championsforlife1234 Yepp Shaq was very skill as an offensive player. But people usually dismiss it because of how dominant he was with his physical tools.
He had underrated hands and was a better passer than he's given credit for.
@@Plague_Doc22
Shaq was a great passer. That's what allowed him to thrive in the triangle offense. He was constantly searching for cutters and shooters.
Good passing is like good shooting for post players. It opens up angles by merely being a threat to pass.
The game was moving away from relying on post up bigs anyways. He was an elite roll man and finisher. A stronger and more athletic version of AD. If he had accepted that role earlier, he would've had more success with his first stint with the Lakers and with the Rockets instead of being a journey man
Best basketball content on TH-cam, hands down. The Kendrick content I didn’t know I needed.
Jxxmy highroller
~ On par with Thinking Basketball.
@@liam-zw4fwdrastically different content
@@liam-zw4fwJimmy doing way too many ads now
you are uneducated thinking basketball is leaps and bounds above this
I believe the interview is still out there but Dwight has said in multiple occasions that Perkins guarded him the best out of any big man
Because of 2 stereotypical aspects about bad good players:
• huge focus on physicality;
• lack of desire to develop outside your strengths.
Ya we have seen players like Olajuwon who worked on their passing qnd their scoring because he knew that he kinda sucked at both of those and eventually this led to him winning an FMVP and MVP.
Even Michael Jordan increased his passing and how carefully his shot selection was when he faced the Jordan Rules Pistons
@@injusticeanywherethreatens4810
Olajuwon never, ever sucked at scoring in the NBA. He might have worked on it as he was learning the game at his young age. And he definitely added different moves to his game. But he never, ever sucked at scoring in the NBA.
So basically Dwight had no touch around the basket and couldn’t finish through contact and was terrible from the line and couldn’t handle the ball so strong bigs really bothered him.
He had like a 2-7 record against Yao's Rockets, but Howard always got 1st team over Yao...
@@OlJackBurton How was his efficiency in those games? Was yao locking him up? Real question
Good rundown. As someone who has studied the low-post game for a while, I have determined the following aspects to success:
1. A reliable go-to move. This is the bread-and-butter move of the player, and he/she should be able to hit it 80+% of the time if he/she gets to their spot and isn't too well-defended.
2. SHOOTING. Every great low-post scorer was able to shoot. Even a bully like Moses Malone had a decent turnaround jump shot he could use if he got walled off to the basket. Even Shaq, who we think of as just an big but agile dunking bully, had a reliable middle righty jump hook and a turnaround counter bank shot. A good close to mid-range shot is basically the "air force" or "long range artillery" of the post game. It keeps defenders honest and closer to you to bite on your shot, helping to open up driving and passing angles.
3. Willingness to pass if double-teamed. By showing you are willing and able to make dangerous passes out of the post when double-teamed, it helps open the game
Dwight Howard did not have 1 or 2, and 3 was kinda iffy compared with the other great post players.
For 1, Howards go-to move was sort of a running righty hook from the left block towards middle (as you noted early in this video). But it wasn't that successful if the defender was able to absorb his initial blow and push him a few feet further from the basket. Once he was a few feet further than his comfort zone, his hook shot became more of a wild shot put.
For 2, Howard simply had no shooting ability whatsoever. He had zero jump shot, and his hook shot was iffy at best. If a defender was able to prevent him from getting a few feet from the basket, they did a good job because he wasn't able to counter with a reliable jump shot or hook of some sort. Basically, because he lacked 2 (shooting), he also lacked a good 1 (reliable go-to move).
As you mentioned at the end of the video, it is more of a testament to Howard's other abilities (athleticism, agility, strength, willingness to bang) that he was able to be a 20 ppg scorer in his prime. If he had even a modicum of 1 or 2, he would have easily been a 25-28 ppg scorer IMO, if not more. And of course, hitting his FTs at 65+% would have upped his average even further and prevented teams from a "hack a Dwight" strategy.
Finally, I would personally note that I didn't think that Kendrick Perkins was that great of a defender. He was strong, reasonably agile, and had quick hands. But much of his success was because (IMO) post defenders were allowed to get away with murder ever since Shaq eviscerated them in the early 2000's with the 3-peat Lakers. Prior to that, post defenders were only able to hold position before the post catch once the defender established position. If they did what Perkins did at 1:24 (shove Howard out with both hands after Howard got a deep seal position), it would have been called a defensive foul.
IMO, if Perkins did all the things that he got away with (which helped give him his "defensive-stopper" and "Dwight stopper" reputation) in the eras prior to 2000's Shaq era refereeing, he would have been in foul trouble every single game. He probably would have adjusted to earlier rules, and probably would have still been a solid to great defender. But he wouldn't have had the same defensive reputation.
The same goes for James Harden's reputation as being a decent post defender. It's only because he's a reasonably big and strong body, and he's allowed to shove the post player out before the catch with both hands.
Another Daniel Li post 🎉🎉🎉
you actually don’t miss with these topics 🗣️ W youtuber
At first i was like: yeah but dwight played perkins in 2009 as well when Orlando beat them. Then i saw dwightt only averaged 16 points in that series. Finishing through contact is such an important skill if your main weapon is physicality.
This helps me understand so much about his perception in the nba
Short Answer: He had no bag
Every player peaks. It's fans and media that decide in their minds if they thought there peaks were going to be better then they actually were or longer then they actually were
Once the pandemic happened I stopped watching sports, but I'm slowly getting back into it and I gotta say, these videos have been really good and insightful. I am definitely starting to ease back into the NBA at least, with a sprinkle of boxing / ufc, we'll see. Anyways, great video!!
In this Celtics series (2010), Dwight actually had a solid series. He had a couple bad games but he still averaged around 22/11 and 3 blocks. But yes I agree with all the points you made. He never really developed that consistent touch & finesse around the basket but was a freak athlete. Eventually that catches up with basketball players.
Finally, an unbiased, analytic based video about dwight howard
Dwight really thinking he was better than Jokic. Heh.
What Jokic is on Offense is to what Dwight was on Defense. Dude averaged 20 boards a night with multiple blocks, straight up monster on that end.
@@1023nicksorry it’s not comparable
@@wengz717 He won three straight Defensive Player of the Year Awards, two block titles, and five rebounding titles from 2008-2013, and almost had a championship under his belt. Pretty strong defensive peak in NBA history.
@@1023nick Still not in the same realm as Jokic winning back to back MVP's and a NBA championship. Dwight was a beast but he is not and never was in the tier of players like Lebron, Jokic, Curry, Kobe. He is in the level below that with dudes like Barkley, Nash, Malone. Still all-time great players but not on the same level as the guys above.
@@TrueGuardify that's the whole point of the video, why he didn't make it to their level during his prime. Doesn't mean they can't be compared when he was just a tier below. His defensive achievements were and still are legendary.
Interesting, can you add on why the Celtics didn't put 2008 DPOY KG on Dwight? I assume it's because Perk wouldn't keep up with Rashard Lewis but I'd love to hear your take on that
It's not that. Perk's most notable role is a post defender/rebounder. Putting him out on the perimeter and letting him guard a spot up shooter means you are not using his best asset. KG being used as a help defender would be better suited since he is a more versatile defender. As the video also showed, Dwight had a harder time scoring when he can't overpower someone down low and he could definitely bully KG more than he can Perkins.
Perks was enough to do the job, and KG was so versatile as a defender, he was able to cover either of Turkoglu or Lewis.
Great content bro
needed this
Big Perc 💪💪💊
Dwight Howard peak was great. At rebounding, shot blocking, defense, catching lobs, put back dunks. So what his post game never became elite. It was pretty damn good. He won defensive player of the year three times.
i love you daniel
people bash how Kendrick Perkins was a NBA player, this is why
got curious abt how dwight was against jokic in 2020 when he got his ring.
of course it wasnt the 2x mvp jokic but also it was dwight way past his prime
i think dwight just wasn't the focal point of the offense anymore, his main impact was his physicality on defense against joker
Dwights plus minus was pretty good in that series. He was very annoying to watch, constantly trying to bait/provoke jokic who ofcourse stayed his stoic self
@@maartenvzunless you’re a horse I dont think jokic even remembers you
Can we get one of these on a few more underachievers like westbrook or Vince Carter
Also another thing. Howard nevee had the type of passing that those monstrosities like Jokic ans Bill Walton have therefore he couldnt really exploit double teams to his full potential. Just imagine if Dwight had the kind of passing that Jokic or Walton had.... it is not hard to imagine him really hurting the Lakers and Celtics when they doubled him, no? I would say that something that made Shaq so lethal offensively was his scoring AND his ability to pick up the pieces of a shattered offense when Kobe got injured . The Lakers played at an above 55 win pace when Kobe was injured during the Lkaer 3peat years ...cause even without a secondary playmaker like Kobe Shaq knew how to make some absolutely nasty reads that would shock the enemy team's defense.
Go watch some Shaq and Jokic videos. See how carefully they read the defense when they start getting double teamed. Youll never see such things from Howard.
Hes limited, no go to move like Shaq and kareem, chuck already mentioned that that years ago. torkoglu was the main offensive guy back then in orlando.
To think if he was a little better he’d be one of the greatest centers of all time
Orlando Magic legend, w fucking Orlando Magic reference
One Trick on the court to many tricks with other men off court closet hahaha 🤣
In another point of view, you may have silently implied that Howard was rightly left out the NBA top 75 players two years ago....
he wasn’t rightfully left off lmao stop it
Just not true lol
I think the top 75 snub really skewed the perspective on Dwight. He's had a better career yes, but for real it was frustrating watching him play in his prime on offense sometimes. Is he still top 75? IMO I'd take Tmac, Vince, Sid Moncrief, and Alonzo Morning over Dwight.
dwight howard was a paint beast
Wasn’t there a year where Al horford shut him down too?
The original title was better
Perkins the clown stopped him bruh
This video is prime example of why he wouldn't fit on the warriors. He'd get hoed by every big man even the skinny ones and his game is way to one dimensional
Dwight Howard then and Dwight Howard now fill completely different roles
@@KillerMouse true. It still wouldn't fit the warriors
It’s not even that he just doesn’t fit Warriors system
Javale McGee won a ring with the Warriors
@@marvinfollero846 u don't think javales game is way more diverse then Dwight's as of rn? Because i definitely do
Homie really learned Chinese too. Carry the hell on
Dwight > AD or Dame.
It would be interesting hearing your thoughts on the lebron vs jordan discussion
Prime Dwight ain’t guarding jokic either, niggas get bored in the off-season and start spouting lies.
Then in Game 2. Adjustments were made and he dropped 30.... Your over hyping Perkins, and under hyping the help defense..... with your "big man" talent argument. You're disregarding he beat Tyson Chandler to get to the C's... The previous year they beat that "Best pound for pound defender in the post" Perkins in the Playoffs......
You can make this video about any NBA super star and there weakness, but you choose DH. I'm starting to wonder if Shaq is paying these guys to make videos about Dwight. This dude just said LeBron can take a foul and finish better than Dwight Howard??????? Let Bron get man handled Garnet, Sheed and Perkins all game then come back at me with this bull!
Lol Dwight averaged 21 and 10 for the series nice try wasting our time you 😂TH-cam scholar 😂😂😂😂😂
Howard is overrated due to nostalgia. Everyone bashed Howard’s offensive game back then. I like Alonzo better than Howard. Howard only averaged 17 points per game against a washed up Shaq.