Finding a load your barrel preferres ? Because load development in and of itself is the person trying to deal with - change- and fix the barrel harmonics- every barrel under 2000 frames ps shows the barrel whipping- moving- ocilating and actually bulging- weather its blue pinting the action. - jumping - jamming. Or touch the bullet in seating- working powders- different bullets- everything your doing or trying mechanically or chemically is change how the barrel acts and responds! Fact the barrel is the heart of accuracy and precision of a firearm fact
not really mechanical accuracy of most rifles are 1-3 moa depending on ammo! bad barrel guns 5-6moa and milsurp mosins and other ww2 can be as bad as 12 moa etc.etc. no gun shoots perfect the most accurate gun s on planet earth 6ppc bench and rail guns shoot .1-.2 moa etc.etc.
I have bought a older Remington 721 which is the rifle before the model 700 it didn’t shoot so I cleaned the barrel I bedded the stock and changed scopes around and it still didn’t shoot so I took it to a friend house who had a bore scope and looking in the barrel told the story when Remington had cut the chamber they got it crooked to the bore in the barrel so I ordered a pre threaded already crowned and short chambered barrel from Shilens and cured the problem plus I chambered it to a 280 AI from a 30-06
I'm no gun Smith at all but I always start checking and replacing scopes rings and mounts if needed first long before I touch the action and barrels unless something obviously needs done. I'm not made of money and my pockets are not deep lol
🕵♂️ Go Watch Jim Harmer's (Backfire TV) Latest Short on The Difference Brass Can Make on Accuracy - Using The Same Powder Charge, Bullet, and Primer, But Different Brass! 🤔
Good content. Gun makesrs today have so much computer aided technology back with years of proven knowledge and experience, the odds of getting a lemon are pretty sparse. Not saying that doesnt happen but probably about as rare as a hummer barrel.
Every gun I own since the 70s I can get it to shoot way under sub MOA with normally doing three things. Never replaced a barrel yet. Bedding, lightening the trigger, and hand loading. Some rifles are a lot more pickier than others on finding a hand load it likes. I have more than a half a dozen rifles that shoot all in the same hole at 100 yards and .2” to 3” at 200 yards with what I’ve done above. Will it do it every time? Probably not, too many variables including myself. A super high-powered scope imo definitely helps to see what’s going on no matter what anybody says. If I was a competition shooter I’m sure I’d be buying barrels. I’m a hunter so no need. Just like to accurized my rifles to outshoot and rile up the guys who spend thousands of dollars on custom guns. Great video.
@@JustAnotherGuyAdventures When I want my guns to shoot one hole groups I normally just buy full length bedding block HS Prescion stocks for them. Looks like they have doubled in price over the years. Normally my best groups after glass bedding are half inch at 100 yards. If I swap out to a hs stock the same hand loads normally all touch or shoot in the same hole. Just depends on how much money you want to dump into a rifle and how well you want it to shoot. It’s easy enough to borrow a full length bedding block stock and test your current best shooting hand loads to see if tightens them up vs dumping money in a barrel and paying to have it installed. I’m sure you can buy and return a stock if it doesn’t improve accuracy from a big box store Vs your stuck with a barrel.
I watched your video and it is interesting when you torqued down that barrel from 65 to 40lbs/inch and it grouped. I'm assembling my 300 PRC tomorrow and if it doesn't group, I'll do the things you suggest.
Excellent content. I had a Weatherby Vanguard that shot decently but wanted a thicker barrel. I also wanted to true the action. I was told once you true an action, you need a new barrel, regardless if the stock barrel still has life in it. I took their word because I wanted another barrel anyway. My gut tells me, it’s bs and they just want a customer to pay more 😁😁
Depends on the new barrel. Some are not any better than a factory barrel but you were misinformed. Is it best to get a better barrel if you true an action? Yes. Is it absolutely needed? No. I'm actually testing a factory Rem 700 ADL 6.5CM I got on clearance at rural king for 369.00 - absolute stock rifle. It actually shoots MOA as is with 3 different factory ammo. I bought it to build either another 6.5CM or 708. At this point I'm thinking a new fire control may make it a bit better plus a new trigger at 1 pound and that may be all I do for a bit
@@Accuracy1st that’s why Fierce and Seekins did some warranty work on my guns and didn’t put a new barrel lol. They just cut some of it off to set up correct head-spacing etc.
@@ArpexOfficial How did we get from you talking about a Weatherby to Seekins and Fierce? And at the prices they charge, why are Fierce and Seekins releasing improperly chambered rifles where headspace is not where it needs to be?
@@Accuracy1st I said what I needed to say about my experience with a reputable business that blue printed my weatherby vanguard action and installed a new barrel on it etc. I brought up the two other companies who have fixed issues with my guns. That proves to me that if a barrel is not the problem, there isn’t a need for a new barrel. I still wouldn’t buy another Fierce lol. Seekins on the other hand, they have my business for life.
@@ArpexOfficial Oh ok. I got a little lost in the comment from 1 brand to the other 2. Yea many times no need for a new barrel, unless your want a different contour or twist rate
If you have a problem with that mosberg you should watch when he gets the Christensen arms 7mm prc in .He gets them from Jim at Backfire if they don't shoot Jim flings them out in the desert .That can't be good for any barrel😅
Yes I've done this myself . Check everything else first on your budget guns. Then if you aren't getting sub moa change it. Also if you have a pencil try no more than three shots at a time. I got certified in small arms (hunters safety equivalent back then) in 76 and gunsmithing in 2009 but never opened a shop because I came upon hard times with my health in 2011 and am still not 💯 % . I tune my own weapons. Maybe someday . Good video and good point
Before you can blame it on the barrel, you would have to do full blown forensics on the barrel. From visual inspection of all the parts, to metallurgic, and pressure tests thru the whole barrel. you need special machinery for that. There many variables in accuracy that you could spend thousands of hours and dollars narrowing down to one single factor that would affect accuracy in a rifle. I have a model 112BVSS savage that after much research, it boiled down to ball gun powder. Nothing wrong with the rifle, just the type of powder. That is as crazy as it can be.
When you start changing variables, you must fo them one at a time and do the test. Your so right about the many variables that can affect the grouping. For me, I have to test my eyes every two years or else accuracy goes south.
If you true an action, spinning the factory barrel back on changes the alignment. Me personally, if a rifle is coming apart at the smith, it is not worth it to me to do a little at a time just to see how it does. I tried that back in the 90s and looking back I was trying to save money I ended up spending anyway and even more because I'd go through load development with each little thing done hoping I wouldn't have to spend more money on the next component. All these components keep going up in prices and its only going to get worse. If a rifle build is something someone is considering get all your components now and maybe an extra barrel or 2 if you shoot so much you'll burn out a barrel.
I agree if you’re doing a complete custom go all out! But if your trying to resolve an accuracy issue with a factory rifle I don’t think barrel is your starting point!
Justanotherguyadventures - I’m lazy. I don’t try to resolve accuracy issues anymore. If a rifle doesn’t shoot I sell it unless I’m considering using the action for a build.
Most rifles produced today will shoot sub moa at 100 and 200 yards.. if you find the load that your rifle prefers! I always say.. once you purchase the firearm.. take it home.. disassemble it.. clean it.. and put it back together! Use loctite on your scope bases.. and level the scope! Purchase at least five brands of factory ammo and head to the range! One or more should group well.. if not.. then troubleshoot the rifle! Is it free floating.. the barrel? Does the action bind cause you over tighten it? What about the trigger pull.. ECT Anyways.. most don't need to be trouble shot.. unless you are shooting past 200 yards. That's my thoughts Thanks for sharing this brother
Agreed. Except for Browning BAR Long Trac rifles. I was there when dad bought his, I inherited it when he passed away. I bought four boxes of Match labeled ammo by Fed, Hdy(2), & Win. Nothing shot under1.5", each averaged 2.0" or more. My handloads were no better for that rifle. The trigger was gritty; no gunsmith would touch it. Learned from Browning unless there's a gunsmith ID'd factory defect they wouldn't touch it either. Sold it, got a Wby in same chambering that averages just under .90" with my handloaded 168gr Noslers. Sometimes a factory piece of junk is just that. Dad's BAR was a beautiful two-tone and walnut, but my nephew, my brother and I couldn't get it to go straight. Beauty or accuracy, sometimes you can't get both at once.
Not disagreeing at all but not just 5 brands of ammo - it's amazing what a different weight within the brand can do. Example, my 308 won't shoot 150 gn Barnes but loves 130 and 168. Copper performs on game for me - stays together with good expansion.
@@snookmeister55 the one thing I've noticed with the copper bullets.. is they perform best if all alloy metals are removed from the barrel before you use them! You're absolutely right.. some cartridges are offered in many different grain weights. I believe that the 130's in copper would look like the 150's in alloys.
@@snookmeister55 also.. there's a lot of people who buy a package rifle or used rifle.. a box or two of ammo.. and head straight to the range! Then say.. this thing doesn't shoot! Also.. I reload.. so I know what happens even if you have one grain more of powder. It could be less accurate.. or more accurate.. just depends :)
Yes, I load too and I've never seen boxed ammo as accurate as a developed hand load, properly seated with best powder, bullet and primer - Just doesn't happen.
If there is a problem with any rifle, you can't know that with one or two three shot groups, & that's the real problem with you & Quarter minute Magnums. Shooting one 3" inch 3 shot group & declaring there is a problem with the rifle is just ridiculous. There could have been a bad bullet or primer, the shot could have been pulled & wasn't noticed & etc. I've shot dozens of 10 shot groups where the first two shots were 2" apart then, the next 8 were all close to the second shot & the end result was 9 shots at under 1" with that one shot strayed out. Now I can BEGIN to see something. From this one group, I can see that I've shot 9 out of 10 inside of 1". What does a single 3 shot group tell you.....NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you shoot another 3 shot group & that is 0.3" what does that tell you....NOTHING. It doesn't tell you where those subsequent shots were with respect to the 1st 3 shot group even though those 3 shots landed together, what was the overall outcome of 6 shots fired out of a rifle that may shoot 2000 to 5000 rounds in it's lifetime....NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. When you & Quarter Minute Magnums understand what significant, meaningful testing is, then you'll be worth listening to.
@@JustAnotherGuyAdventures Oh, I'm calm. I will admit that it is a little frustrating watching the same meaningless testing. In simple terms, 5 or 10 3 shot groups are almost as useless as one 3 shot group because the overall 15 shots don't give true perspective of what the system is doing. If you can shoot five 3 shot groups, you can shoot one 15 shot group, that will tell you far more. Remember, the rifle doesn't care about which shots you're looking at to form an opinion on what's going on. The rifle just shoots one shot after another. It's the shooter who decides that a particular group of shots means anything. The next time you shoot a three shot group, ask yourself where number 4 will go in relation to the 1st 3 you fired. Then think about number 5 & so on. If you stop at 3 shots all the time, you can never get a true picture of what's going on. This is particularly important when you check the rifles zero at different times of the year. Three shot groups will send you in circles if you want to tell a shift in impact. Unfortunately, 10 shots is the minimum price to gaining anything close to a meaningful result.
@@ReloadingWeatherby Well, that's not quite accurate information. Ten shot groups are statistically meaningful within a certain probability density whereas, 3 shot groups have roughly a 10% probability density, dependent on certain factors. If you know this, why are you still referring to 3 shot groups? Quarter Minute Magnums is completely ignorant & seems to believe that any number of data points is adequate to tell him what he wants it to tell him. One ten shot group is vastly superior to any 3 shot group & will, in most cases, provide positive, useable information, as will Mean Radius as opposed to group ES, especially for hunting rifle hit probability & matching POI to POA which, is the most important factor when shooting beyond 400 or 500 yrds. I apologise if I seem to be taking the piss. That was not my intention. It would be satisfying to see guys like yourself start to realize the benefits of moving away from 3 or 5 shot groups &, moving away from group ES & instead utilizing Mean Radius as a more valid & helpful dimension to assess the accuracy & repeatability of the rifles & ammunition.
It kills me when like Gavin someone spends a thousand dollars or more to get a 400 dollar Mossberg rifle to shoot good
That wasn’t a fix the rifle. That was a build a rifle.
Finding a load your barrel preferres ? Because load development in and of itself is the person trying to deal with - change- and fix the barrel harmonics- every barrel under 2000 frames ps shows the barrel whipping- moving- ocilating and actually bulging- weather its blue pinting the action. - jumping - jamming. Or touch the bullet in seating- working powders- different bullets- everything your doing or trying mechanically or chemically is change how the barrel acts and responds! Fact the barrel is the heart of accuracy and precision of a firearm fact
The Real Truth is Most Barrels Can Shoot Better Than The People Behind Them! 😂
not really mechanical accuracy of most rifles are 1-3 moa depending on ammo! bad barrel guns 5-6moa and milsurp mosins and other ww2 can be as bad as 12 moa etc.etc. no gun shoots perfect the most accurate gun s on planet earth 6ppc bench and rail guns shoot .1-.2 moa etc.etc.
I have bought a older Remington 721 which is the rifle before the model 700 it didn’t shoot so I cleaned the barrel I bedded the stock and changed scopes around and it still didn’t shoot so I took it to a friend house who had a bore scope and looking in the barrel told the story when Remington had cut the chamber they got it crooked to the bore in the barrel so I ordered a pre threaded already crowned and short chambered barrel from Shilens and cured the problem plus I chambered it to a 280 AI from a 30-06
The one thing that’s cheap that can make tons of difference is to have the barrel re-crowned
Thanks for the input!
I like to start by bedding or stock replacement. The barrel is the last thing to change out. In most cases it can be something even simpler.
They hear it from people who are buying a cheap AR and swapping to a decent barrel, bring a 5 MOA POS, down to a 1.2 or 1.3 MOA on a cheap upper.
I like this guy, no nonsense straight to the point and good information. Keep up the good work brother.
I'm no gun Smith at all but I always start checking and replacing scopes rings and mounts if needed first long before I touch the action and barrels unless something obviously needs done. I'm not made of money and my pockets are not deep lol
I meant to say that also but I think I might of forgot thank you
@JustAnotherGuyAdventures I've heard some of the same things you mentioned in this video and this is just how I was told by some old school shooters
🕵♂️ Go Watch Jim Harmer's (Backfire TV) Latest Short on The Difference Brass Can Make on Accuracy - Using The Same Powder Charge, Bullet, and Primer, But Different Brass! 🤔
Good content. Gun makesrs today have so much computer aided technology back with years of proven knowledge and experience, the odds of getting a lemon are pretty sparse. Not saying that doesnt happen but probably about as rare as a hummer barrel.
Thank you!
Every gun I own since the 70s I can get it to shoot way under sub MOA with normally doing three things. Never replaced a barrel yet. Bedding, lightening the trigger, and hand loading. Some rifles are a lot more pickier than others on finding a hand load it likes. I have more than a half a dozen rifles that shoot all in the same hole at 100 yards and .2” to 3” at 200 yards with what I’ve done above. Will it do it every time? Probably not, too many variables including myself. A super high-powered scope imo definitely helps to see what’s going on no matter what anybody says. If I was a competition shooter I’m sure I’d be buying barrels. I’m a hunter so no need. Just like to accurized my rifles to outshoot and rile up the guys who spend thousands of dollars on custom guns. Great video.
Thank you!
@@JustAnotherGuyAdventures When I want my guns to shoot one hole groups I normally just buy full length bedding block HS Prescion stocks for them. Looks like they have doubled in price over the years. Normally my best groups after glass bedding are half inch at 100 yards. If I swap out to a hs stock the same hand loads normally all touch or shoot in the same hole. Just depends on how much money you want to dump into a rifle and how well you want it to shoot. It’s easy enough to borrow a full length bedding block stock and test your current best shooting hand loads to see if tightens them up vs dumping money in a barrel and paying to have it installed. I’m sure you can buy and return a stock if it doesn’t improve accuracy from a big box store Vs your stuck with a barrel.
@@tripplebeards3427 appreciate the info!
Haters are gonna hate. You’re making good content. Keep it up man.
Thank you!
I watched your video and it is interesting when you torqued down that barrel from 65 to 40lbs/inch and it grouped. I'm assembling my 300 PRC tomorrow and if it doesn't group, I'll do the things you suggest.
A lot of that is just that stock that model 12 comes in. What brand is your 300 PRC rifle?
@@JustAnotherGuyAdventures Howa 1500
Great video. Most factory guns can out perform most shooters
I agree. Lots of off the shelf accuracy nowadays.
Excellent content. I had a Weatherby Vanguard that shot decently but wanted a thicker barrel. I also wanted to true the action. I was told once you true an action, you need a new barrel, regardless if the stock barrel still has life in it. I took their word because I wanted another barrel anyway. My gut tells me, it’s bs and they just want a customer to pay more 😁😁
Depends on the new barrel. Some are not any better than a factory barrel but you were misinformed. Is it best to get a better barrel if you true an action? Yes. Is it absolutely needed? No. I'm actually testing a factory Rem 700 ADL 6.5CM I got on clearance at rural king for 369.00 - absolute stock rifle. It actually shoots MOA as is with 3 different factory ammo. I bought it to build either another 6.5CM or 708. At this point I'm thinking a new fire control may make it a bit better plus a new trigger at 1 pound and that may be all I do for a bit
@@Accuracy1st that’s why Fierce and Seekins did some warranty work on my guns and didn’t put a new barrel lol. They just cut some of it off to set up correct head-spacing etc.
@@ArpexOfficial How did we get from you talking about a Weatherby to Seekins and Fierce? And at the prices they charge, why are Fierce and Seekins releasing improperly chambered rifles where headspace is not where it needs to be?
@@Accuracy1st I said what I needed to say about my experience with a reputable business that blue printed my weatherby vanguard action and installed a new barrel on it etc. I brought up the two other companies who have fixed issues with my guns. That proves to me that if a barrel is not the problem, there isn’t a need for a new barrel. I still wouldn’t buy another Fierce lol. Seekins on the other hand, they have my business for life.
@@ArpexOfficial Oh ok. I got a little lost in the comment from 1 brand to the other 2. Yea many times no need for a new barrel, unless your want a different contour or twist rate
Sometimes ive seen some vids where it is. But its the LAST thing they've done
Armchair gunsmiths are always the best people to deal with online they know absolutely nothing but also apparently everything
Hahaha so true!
Amen Brother!
Thank you
Your 100% correct
Freekin Jabronies 😂
So many of them!
it's all about "likes and views" not about the firearms themselves
Spot on mate cheers Yogi ✌️
Thank you!
My ptr barrel is a pos. Thing wont group anything, but 200gr bullets and that’s at 4”.
If you have a problem with that mosberg you should watch when he gets the Christensen arms 7mm prc in .He gets them from Jim at Backfire if they don't shoot Jim flings them out in the desert .That can't be good for any barrel😅
Yes I've done this myself . Check everything else first on your budget guns. Then if you aren't getting sub moa change it. Also if you have a pencil try no more than three shots at a time. I got certified in small arms (hunters safety equivalent back then) in 76 and gunsmithing in 2009 but never opened a shop because I came upon hard times with my health in 2011 and am still not 💯 % . I tune my own weapons. Maybe someday . Good video and good point
Before you can blame it on the barrel, you would have to do full blown forensics on the barrel. From visual inspection of all the parts, to metallurgic, and pressure tests thru the whole barrel. you need special machinery for that. There many variables in accuracy that you could spend thousands of hours and dollars narrowing down to one single factor that would affect accuracy in a rifle. I have a model 112BVSS savage that after much research, it boiled down to ball gun powder. Nothing wrong with the rifle, just the type of powder. That is as crazy as it can be.
When you start changing variables, you must fo them one at a time and do the test. Your so right about the many variables that can affect the grouping. For me, I have to test my eyes every two years or else accuracy goes south.
I thought a lot of the same things after watching said video.
Hey bud, maybe that 3x9 ain’t doing it 😜
Hahahaha it ain’t!!!
Then whose barrel is it?
The next guys hahaha
You have to do your part to get good accuracy with any gun
If you true an action, spinning the factory barrel back on changes the alignment. Me personally, if a rifle is coming apart at the smith, it is not worth it to me to do a little at a time just to see how it does. I tried that back in the 90s and looking back I was trying to save money I ended up spending anyway and even more because I'd go through load development with each little thing done hoping I wouldn't have to spend more money on the next component. All these components keep going up in prices and its only going to get worse. If a rifle build is something someone is considering get all your components now and maybe an extra barrel or 2 if you shoot so much you'll burn out a barrel.
I agree if you’re doing a complete custom go all out! But if your trying to resolve an accuracy issue with a factory rifle I don’t think barrel is your starting point!
Justanotherguyadventures - I’m lazy. I don’t try to resolve accuracy issues anymore. If a rifle doesn’t shoot I sell it unless I’m considering using the action for a build.
Haha that’s probably the smartest way to go about it!
I want a Hummer😂
I think you want a different kind of Hummer 🚙
I hear that they suk.
What power is that swfa scope 10x, 12x or 16x?
12x
To each his own, but those chassis style stock are not appealing to the eye.
Haha i agree. I just bought it to try to cut weight many years ago. Lot of light weight option now these days! I do still like some chasis.
Most rifles produced today will shoot sub moa at 100 and 200 yards.. if you find the load that your rifle prefers!
I always say.. once you purchase the firearm.. take it home.. disassemble it.. clean it.. and put it back together! Use loctite on your scope bases.. and level the scope! Purchase at least five brands of factory ammo and head to the range!
One or more should group well.. if not.. then troubleshoot the rifle!
Is it free floating.. the barrel?
Does the action bind cause you over tighten it?
What about the trigger pull.. ECT
Anyways.. most don't need to be trouble shot.. unless you are shooting past 200 yards. That's my thoughts
Thanks for sharing this brother
Agreed. Except for Browning BAR Long Trac rifles. I was there when dad bought his, I inherited it when he passed away. I bought four boxes of Match labeled ammo by Fed, Hdy(2), & Win. Nothing shot under1.5", each averaged 2.0" or more. My handloads were no better for that rifle. The trigger was gritty; no gunsmith would touch it. Learned from Browning unless there's a gunsmith ID'd factory defect they wouldn't touch it either. Sold it, got a Wby in same chambering that averages just under .90" with my handloaded 168gr Noslers.
Sometimes a factory piece of junk is just that. Dad's BAR was a beautiful two-tone and walnut, but my nephew, my brother and I couldn't get it to go straight. Beauty or accuracy, sometimes you can't get both at once.
Not disagreeing at all but not just 5 brands of ammo - it's amazing what a different weight within the brand can do. Example, my 308 won't shoot 150 gn Barnes but loves 130 and 168. Copper performs on game for me - stays together with good expansion.
@@snookmeister55 the one thing I've noticed with the copper bullets.. is they perform best if all alloy metals are removed from the barrel before you use them!
You're absolutely right.. some cartridges are offered in many different grain weights. I believe that the 130's in copper would look like the 150's in alloys.
@@snookmeister55 also.. there's a lot of people who buy a package rifle or used rifle.. a box or two of ammo.. and head straight to the range!
Then say.. this thing doesn't shoot!
Also.. I reload.. so I know what happens even if you have one grain more of powder. It could be less accurate.. or more accurate.. just depends :)
Yes, I load too and I've never seen boxed ammo as accurate as a developed hand load, properly seated with best powder, bullet and primer - Just doesn't happen.
Lapping and truing a Savage action? Somebody doesn't know how any of that works. Floating bolt head....
You can still lap the lugs bud
there’s some personality
Hahaha thanks
If there is a problem with any rifle, you can't know that with one or two three shot groups, & that's the real problem with you & Quarter minute Magnums.
Shooting one 3" inch 3 shot group & declaring there is a problem with the rifle is just ridiculous. There could have been a bad bullet or primer, the shot could have been pulled & wasn't noticed & etc.
I've shot dozens of 10 shot groups where the first two shots were 2" apart then, the next 8 were all close to the second shot & the end result was 9 shots at under 1" with that one shot strayed out. Now I can BEGIN to see something. From this one group, I can see that I've shot 9 out of 10 inside of 1". What does a single 3 shot group tell you.....NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If you shoot another 3 shot group & that is 0.3" what does that tell you....NOTHING. It doesn't tell you where those subsequent shots were with respect to the 1st 3 shot group even though those 3 shots landed together, what was the overall outcome of 6 shots fired out of a rifle that may shoot 2000 to 5000 rounds in it's lifetime....NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
When you & Quarter Minute Magnums understand what significant, meaningful testing is, then you'll be worth listening to.
Dude I shot 5 shot groups in my last video and I know 3 shot groups don’t tell you everything calm down bud!
@@JustAnotherGuyAdventures Oh, I'm calm. I will admit that it is a little frustrating watching the same meaningless testing.
In simple terms, 5 or 10 3 shot groups are almost as useless as one 3 shot group because the overall 15 shots don't give true perspective of what the system is doing. If you can shoot five 3 shot groups, you can shoot one 15 shot group, that will tell you far more. Remember, the rifle doesn't care about which shots you're looking at to form an opinion on what's going on. The rifle just shoots one shot after another. It's the shooter who decides that a particular group of shots means anything.
The next time you shoot a three shot group, ask yourself where number 4 will go in relation to the 1st 3 you fired. Then think about number 5 & so on. If you stop at 3 shots all the time, you can never get a true picture of what's going on. This is particularly important when you check the rifles zero at different times of the year. Three shot groups will send you in circles if you want to tell a shift in impact.
Unfortunately, 10 shots is the minimum price to gaining anything close to a meaningful result.
@rotasaustralis 10 shot groups are meaningless! 20 shot groups are bare minimum. Someone needs to go watch the Hornady podcast...
@@ReloadingWeatherby Well, that's not quite accurate information. Ten shot groups are statistically meaningful within a certain probability density whereas, 3 shot groups have roughly a 10% probability density, dependent on certain factors.
If you know this, why are you still referring to 3 shot groups?
Quarter Minute Magnums is completely ignorant & seems to believe that any number of data points is adequate to tell him what he wants it to tell him.
One ten shot group is vastly superior to any 3 shot group & will, in most cases, provide positive, useable information, as will Mean Radius as opposed to group ES, especially for hunting rifle hit probability & matching POI to POA which, is the most important factor when shooting beyond 400 or 500 yrds.
I apologise if I seem to be taking the piss. That was not my intention. It would be satisfying to see guys like yourself start to realize the benefits of moving away from 3 or 5 shot groups &, moving away from group ES & instead utilizing Mean Radius as a more valid & helpful dimension to assess the accuracy & repeatability of the rifles & ammunition.
Bucks head 2moa, that's all I need, keep your hummer and chassis, ek maak biltong pappppiiii