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I've cried along with you Tanner, even as a never mo, the religious trauma of being a queer kid in a christian school and the feelings of being finally able to explore my queerness as an young adult and finding queer communities are experiences that molded my identity as a person. I also thrive to love and connect with people, just as my late christian father taught me to (i miss him so much)
this really, really moved me. As someone who has lost queer loved ones to suicide in the mormon church, this topic is just so painful for me to discuss, but you both did it with such love and holding space for the grief. Thank you.
Cried along with you, Tanner. I was never Mormon but grew up in Evangelicalism. As a poly bi woman, I grew up hearing "love the sinner, hate the sin" but I only ever saw the hatred side of that. My queer community is so much more compassionate and Christ-like than any of the Christians I grew up around in church.
Here I sit in my office, weaving a pine and leaf mandala for the summer solstice, deeply enjoying Sam's empathetic reframing and clarity and Tanner's well of relevant evidence and energy... having almost no history with eunuch-lore but along for the ride.
Thank you for your vulnerability and for sharing such a sacred and important aspect of your life! I can’t be the only one who cried out of pain and happiness while watching, right?? 💜
I’m a 16 year old girl from a nonreligious family and I’ve never been religious myself, but I find a lot of meaning in your videos. Every time I watch I feel like a better version of myself. Thank you so much ❤
I am from a non-religious family too and a fan of a lot of ex-believer content. I struggle to understand how people believe so much nonsense & it builds empathy to hear stories & shows like this. I am so grateful to my parents for being the 'leavers.' The world is so fascinating and there so much to learn - including about religions - without any faith goggles to distort everything. Secular humanism is a healthy ethical system. Wishing you well in life as someone decades older. Sadly we need to work against religious privilege that is trying to impose iron age cultural practices on modern life. I can't leave religions alone until they leave me alone. I'd rather be out enjoying nature & friends & making the world a truly better place instead of struggling constantly to keep it from getting a lot worse. Some of us elders are allies fighting for justice, we need soludarity across generations as well as identities.
Thank you for your vulnerability Tanner ❤ it can’t be easy to put that out on the internet but there’s such beautiful strength in it and it’s so powerful to see how much you care
My husband and I have been married for almost 23 years. Even before we met I've had same sex attraction but had the fear of admitting it. I finally talkto him about it and he was real supportive to me about it. Even today I still go it but we no longer are members of the church and I feel better looking at my own spirituality. It helps me feel better about myself.
y'all are both just so beautiful as human beings, I'm in love with the way you articulate and think and YOU, person reading this- I love you, go get a drink and a snack, do something nice for yourself today because you deserve compassion and care ♡ ˚₊‧⁺˖
Oh Tanner, thank you so so so much. I can't express to you how much comfort I get from listening to your thoughts and I thank you for being brave enough to show your emotions and the pure love you have for people. I'm crying in a park now, just feeling solidarity for the people we've all lost to these harmful teaching. Thank you for being a beacon for pure love and support ❤️
Thanks for expressing your thoughts on your first queer relationship in such an honest and emotional way. I think a lot of people will connect with you on how their first queer relationship was life changing and really set off a path of personal growth.
The one and only time I tried to commit suicide was about a year/two into being a TBM because I "knew" that I was sinful, shameful, inherently flawed, and would never ever be able to express my gender or sexuality truly. It is now, years after deconstruction, that I've finally accepted that I am nonbinary and sapphic AND that its AWESOME! I will never forgive the church for the amount of people who have, or have tried to kill themselves just for being themself. Your tears hit me hard, Tanner. Im glad that i didnt succeed that night.
Tanner, thank you for being so vulnerable about your journey. I'm a bisexual bigender wo/man raised mormon and I wept at church and assured my peers that sin was a choice and this I could not choose. My mom was a young women's teacher at the time and watched in silence as I was verbally torn to shreds. I wish u an ounce of the healing that hearing you has brought me, because even that would be life altering.
what a perfect video to keep me company as i crochet my slutty pride attire for this weekend 🥰 thank you both for bringing humor and universal empathy into the conversation, as always. and thank you tanner for the way you bring queer suffering into the light never without a heavy emphasis on radical queer joy. we may be fighting to end our suffering, but we will always, ALWAYS have our joy. nobody can take that away from us. love you both & happy mfing pride ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
To the gay community: thank you sooooo much for opening my eyes to the insanity of some religious groups - my new life outside a cult is full of love and amazement.
I just appreciate you both so very much. I feel enriched by having your conversations in my life, and this video is a shining example of why I’m a patron. Thank you for this. All the garden talk has the Joni Mitchell song, Woodstock, stuck in my head. Here’s the chorus: “We are stardust, we are golden We are billion-year-old carbon And we've got to get ourselves Back to the garden” Feels especially relevant right now. Sending you both big love.
So I turned this video on to listen to while resting my eyes and recovering from a headache. Next thing I know I've taken one of those epic, much needed naps and I woke up to the part where Tanner was talking about his first queer experience opening up his ability to create music and the stuff about your whole nature being accepted in nature and I was like...... 😮 That's some beautiful powerful stuff right there. So sorry not sorry that I slept through most of what you said, because that nap plus what I did hear has left me feeling very renewed body and soul. I think my headache is gone too. Thanks!
This was so powerful and I felt so seen in Tanner's vulnerability. Thank you so much for facilitating these conversations and creating such a healing space.
In December, I made the decision to stop attending church. However, my strong social dependency prevented me from leaving immediately. Over time, I came to realize that prioritizing an authentic life driven by the pursuit of truth was more important to me than seeking comfort within my social circles. Although leaving meant sacrificing a significant part of my happiness, I knew that ripping off the band-aid was inevitable; it was just a matter of when. Now, I find myself feeling incredibly lonely, without any close friends to speak of. While there have been people who have tried to befriend me, I tend to self-sabotage or push them away. The longing to rid myself of this life is so strong that at times I wish I could simply snap my fingers and cease to exist. Admittedly, without the support of my previous spiritual framework, my future prospects do not genuinely excite me at all. Everything seems devoid of meaning and inconsequential. In moments of desperation, I even consider going back and living a life of pretense just to belong in this seemingly barren world. I have heard the clichés before: "life is a process, be strong and keep moving forward" or "you'll eventually meet better people." However, the problem lies in the fact that people, in general, just infuriate me. They consistently manage to push my buttons. It is challenging to love and accept others when I struggle with self-hatred. Furthermore, it seems like every social group is plagued by backstabbing gossip or an inherent hierarchy. Not participating in such behavior only serves to further alienate me. I have no idea what I'm going to do now. I'm completely lost. Has anyone else had this experience?
I have absolutely had this experience. I know the pain so so intimately and while I don’t know enough about life to guarantee that everything will get better, I feel fairly confident that it will. I truly saw no way out of the position you just described, but now my life is so full of joy and love, it’s mind-blowing. I hope you can hang in there and stay curious and open to new possibilities. Sending so much love. 💜💜💜💜💜
Tanner you are a beautiful human being, inside and out, and I love hearing what you have to say. Thank you for all that you give here so freely and generously 💚 What Samantha said about your loving nature running all the way down was so true. Thank you both 💚
I love you both so much, thank you for sharing Tanner. ❤ I dream about having my first queer experience and you’ve given me hope that it could happen for me, despite all the religious trauma. I hope it’s a beautiful experience, like yours was 🥲
thank you for all the work you do. Your videos are always incredible and insightful and I love the level of kindness, empathy and care that you approach everything with. Tanner's vulnerability/emotional openness really resonated. Loved the video, you're amazing, thank you for making the world a little better and more understanding
Thank you so much for this video, for your vulnerability, and for your wise words. One of our biggest reasons for leaving the church 10+ years ago was because of its anti-LGBTQIA+ rhetoric and the ways it's harmed my brother-in-law and two of our cousins. They each lived with so much shame and self-loathing for years because of it, and wasted so many hours trying to fast and pray the gay away. Luckily they've each since left the church and are thriving in their same-sex marriages, and we couldn't be happier for them. To show support for them, and to represent our exit from Mormonism, my husband got a tattoo of tapir with a rainbow abdomen 💟
1:27:30 Tanner your words here really reminded me of a Potawatomi ethnobotanist, Robin Wall-Kimmerer, who I highly admire (being Indigenous myself) and some words she spoke as a guest on the Native Seed Pod podcast about this that I think you'd find lovely. Honestly I think you'd adore that whole episode. (Also if you haven't read her book Braiding Sweetgrass I'd highly highly recommend it.) Its a bit long, so I apologize, but I wouldn't take the time to write it out if I didn't think it would really be something you guys would appreciate. I've saved this part of the conversation between her and the host Melissa because I think of the words so so often: ROBIN: The idea that any of us is separate is a fiction. It is a fiction of Western individualism. And that idea of "I don't want to lose my individuality." No, but you want to-- I think at the heart of our deepest longing is to belong. And we do. We've just forgotten that. MELISSA: It seems almost like such a poetic balance of belonging and kinship--knowing we are part of something greater than ourselves through that web of kin--and yet also there's a recognition of, rather than individualism as separateness, as the sovereignty of beings that you write about so beautifully with forest ecology. That each tree has a sovereignty of its own being, and yet is completely dependent and co-creating with these other beings--the little ants, the other seeds, the flowers, the birds. So how do you modulate that creative balance of sovereignty of being-ness with collective kinship? ROBIN: What a wonderful question! I actually have been thinking about this in terms of the identity and personhood of all beings. And that is that this notion of sovereignty, of being? You really must be fully yourself in order to participate in the whole. If that fungus was trying to be a different fungus, if that pine was saying, "Well, I'd like to be more like a spruce," -- It wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. You have to be solid in your identity and be fully that pine in order for symbiosis to work. I think of great teachers of that in Three Sisters gardening. Why does the whole work? Because corn is /distinctively/ corn. Corn brings her gifts. And if corn was other than that, it wouldn't work. The beans don't try to be the corn, the corn doesn't try to be the squash. The whole works because of the sovereignty of each being. So it is both an invitation to be fully oneself, knowing that whole would suffer if you weren't fully yourself. And I see the forest teaching us that. And its something that I really try to remember: that we have to be fully ourselves or else the rest of the co-creative process doesn't have our gift.
Thank you guys for your vulnerability and honesty as always. Tanner had me crying with him and so much of what he said rang true for me as well. Years ago I used to watch a lot of angry edgy atheist content and this channel has done so much to soften my heart and heal my sense of spirituality. Thanks for doing what you do 🩷
I feel so deeply about what Tanner talked about. It's why I left the church. I saw my friends hurting so badly at BYU, and I didn't want my baby growing up with that pain either. After leaving my partner and I have realized we're both queer and we have no idea how to connect with the queer community outside of the internet. :/
You are wonderful people. I love, love, love everything you have to say. Your honesty, authenticity and vulnerability have helped me immensely. Thank you.
Tanner, I am so glad that you are still on the planet. As a never mo who at age 9 while at a baptist service, realized that Christ loved everyone and yet the church was preaching hate, and I left organized religion. Your intelligence, your beautiful heart, and your great sense of humor are a gift to this world. Do recordings of your music exist and, if so, where? I’d love to hear it. I love what you and Sam put out in the world and am going to become a Patreon supporter. Thank you for being you.
Dude! I appreciate your insight on scientists. I am a science teacher who grew up in the SBC. My spirituality was so full and the more I searched for God the farther I got. Happy Easter!
Thank you for your vulnerability and honesty. This conversation is so important, and you’re handling it and us with grace and beauty as we feel through this together.
Thank you Tanner for COOKING. This really needed to be said and it makes me sick to my stomach that these things happened to people and are still being suggested. Whether someone believes in God or not, it should make you sick. It’s like freaking leave queer people alone ❤
Anything other than heterosexual sex removes the control of the church over procreation and enriching the coffers of that church. It also promotes the patriarchy of the system. If two women are in a relationship, who is the authority? Can procreation be controlled? It causes severe anxiety for the patriarchy.
The eunuchs seem like a much better comparison to asexuality in the born bit, but even there, the thought of it as something lesser makes it inherently problematic.
I was led to seriously consider becoming a eunuch after reading those scriptures, Doctrines of Salvation, and Mormon Doctrine, all about 8 years ago while in college. Hetero, btw. Came to the conclusion that this was the only way out of my sexual feelings that God wouldn’t take away from me when I begged him to, since I felt so guilty for pleasing myself once a month. It’s insane the damage the church does to people.
Oh my goddess, listening to two hot, smart people talk about the intricacies of religion is my kink and I had no fucking idea. Honestly so much of my life makes more sense now.
Tanner you are so fucking brilliant and wise. I literally wrote down multiple quotes you spoke in this video to reflect on later. You blow me away with your deep and compassionate wisdom. I'm crying with you comrade. Love you buddy.
I often watch your videos to help myself untangle the crazy web of religious trauma. As a queer woman, I felt all of that deep within me and I can't thank you both enough for everything you create.
Thank for sharing this, it made me cry because I’ve hardly been able to explore my queer identity because of my past beliefs. Thank you for opening up your beautiful heart and sharing. I have hope for a better future for queer people ❤
I am gay, and I grew up in a deeply religious household, evangelical. Now I am struggling a lot with if I still believe there is a god or not, and this channel is very helpful. I still am not sure, but I relate so hard to all of this.
Tanner, I love your complete openess and exposing your vulnerabilty about who you are... how sad that the vast majority of people deny their true nature to conform to societal pressures from family, religion, etc!
Proclamation to the world projects the American 1950’s to be the ideal societal roles. Fortunately, the world moves forward and the members are responding to the changes. I was repulsed by the idea of being a “stay at home dads” until I met a counselor in the bishopric supported his wife in her career opportunities. Going against the proclamation. 😁
❤❤❤to Tanner, first of all-and to his dad. On another topic: Please don’t make the mistake of lumping all “Christians” or Christian churches together! There were in fact Christian ministers and churches who actively denounced slavery and worked to overturn it. Henry Ward Beecher, a Congregationalist pastor, was an abolitionist. And in today’s world, liberal Christian churches are drowned out by the conservative evangelical ones.
I'm kind of late to the party here, but if you are curious about the history of eunuchs there is a great episode on it by the podcast 'Betwixt the sheets".
When he said “this church is a heterosexual church” around 36:00, I choked on my food laughing. What is this church’s gender? Is this church on any dating apps and single? Lolol
Eunuchs came into the queer conversation with the publication of the WPATH SOC 8. A chapter on Eunuchs was added as an indentity so not so out of place. Circumstances are very different but Eunuchs are in the modern conversation.
Why did you snip the video about three categories, without an explanation?? Here is what I found : “The Romans classified eunuchs into three categories: spadones, who were infertile males from birth, thlibiae, whose testicles had been “pressed,” thladiae, whose testicles had been “crushed,” and castrati, whose unit was cut off or lost altogether. “
I realized after I deconstructed how modern Christian ideology was blocking my empathy. I think I was always headed toward deconstruction because (and I'm not trying to sound cringe) of my natural inclination towards empathy. I've always had a soft heart and it was just slowly eroded over time. Part of becoming an adult for me has been connecting back to my childhood self and realizing that she was wise to feel so deeply. Nowadays, I don't understand why Christians have such a hardline opposition to homosexuality, transness, gender as a spectrum ,etc. Why is it considered a sin? Cause it's unnatural, it's Satan trying to warp God's creation? Tell me why then do we see homosexuality and a whole different variety of biological sexes in animals? Are you saying that Satan created sex diversity in animals? ALSO they didn't really care about "protecting" or "guarding" the sex slaves in the harem, they just didn't want them getting pregnant by someone else. Because lets be honest, you don't have to have genitals to SA a person. So it wasn't like this was a "necessary evil" that kings did back in the day for the righteous cause of protecting women or whatever, it was about control and treating women as property.
Omg i was just reading esther for personal reason, and it got me to thinking about how likely it was that people who may consider themselves trans today may have volunteered to be eunuchs way back when. Just as a thought (sexuality is nuanced trans is a present day term blah blah i know) but hey hello this video
36:42 “the lord has 3 types of Eunuchs in mind. “😄 41:45 make themselves Eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. Calling Fake Doctor Marshall Applewhite from Heaven’s Gate.
The thing about the nature nurture thing is it actually isn't important regarding homosexuality because there's no issue with it. The only people it bothers are homophobes. Let's study stuff like schizophrenia, that actually causes people real grief.
Sam, I only said that because of that song from Book of Mormon the musical…”but, mostly me”. I think you are wonderful. I’m 58 and could be both of you guys’ mom, and I love all of my ex mo friends.
Hi friends! If you want to help us keep making videos like this, please consider sending us a little venmo @ Samantha-Shelley-1 or joining us on Patreon, where you get BONUS videos that are SO GOOD! ✨💖
I've cried along with you Tanner, even as a never mo, the religious trauma of being a queer kid in a christian school and the feelings of being finally able to explore my queerness as an young adult and finding queer communities are experiences that molded my identity as a person. I also thrive to love and connect with people, just as my late christian father taught me to (i miss him so much)
this really, really moved me. As someone who has lost queer loved ones to suicide in the mormon church, this topic is just so painful for me to discuss, but you both did it with such love and holding space for the grief. Thank you.
Cried along with you, Tanner. I was never Mormon but grew up in Evangelicalism. As a poly bi woman, I grew up hearing "love the sinner, hate the sin" but I only ever saw the hatred side of that. My queer community is so much more compassionate and Christ-like than any of the Christians I grew up around in church.
"god is the girl who says she hates drama, who is always in drama" LMAO I need that on a t shirt or pin or something
Here I sit in my office, weaving a pine and leaf mandala for the summer solstice, deeply enjoying Sam's empathetic reframing and clarity and Tanner's well of relevant evidence and energy... having almost no history with eunuch-lore but along for the ride.
Awww 🥺💛💛💛
Thank you for your vulnerability and for sharing such a sacred and important aspect of your life! I can’t be the only one who cried out of pain and happiness while watching, right?? 💜
💜💜💜💜💜
You are definitely not the alone in that.
I’m a 16 year old girl from a nonreligious family and I’ve never been religious myself, but I find a lot of meaning in your videos. Every time I watch I feel like a better version of myself. Thank you so much ❤
I am from a non-religious family too and a fan of a lot of ex-believer content. I struggle to understand how people believe so much nonsense & it builds empathy to hear stories & shows like this. I am so grateful to my parents for being the 'leavers.' The world is so fascinating and there so much to learn - including about religions - without any faith goggles to distort everything. Secular humanism is a healthy ethical system. Wishing you well in life as someone decades older. Sadly we need to work against religious privilege that is trying to impose iron age cultural practices on modern life. I can't leave religions alone until they leave me alone. I'd rather be out enjoying nature & friends & making the world a truly better place instead of struggling constantly to keep it from getting a lot worse. Some of us elders are allies fighting for justice, we need soludarity across generations as well as identities.
Thank you for your vulnerability Tanner ❤ it can’t be easy to put that out on the internet but there’s such beautiful strength in it and it’s so powerful to see how much you care
32:46
Thank you so much for your vulnerability Tanner. You continue to be an inspiration to me
Oh algorithm, hear the words of my mouth,
Oh algorithm , hear the words of my mouth,
Oh algorithm, hear the words of my mouth
Hehehe
@@ZelphOntheShelfoh my god, fan girl moment !!!
My husband and I have been married for almost 23 years. Even before we met I've had same sex attraction but had the fear of admitting it. I finally talkto him about it and he was real supportive to me about it. Even today I still go it but we no longer are members of the church and I feel better looking at my own spirituality. It helps me feel better about myself.
💜💜💜
Tanner is speaking so much truth ❤
Always 👌
y'all are both just so beautiful as human beings, I'm in love with the way you articulate and think
and YOU, person reading this- I love you, go get a drink and a snack, do something nice for yourself today because you deserve compassion and care ♡ ˚₊‧⁺˖
This takedown is like fine whiskey 🥃, you gotta savor it. Nice work y'all.
Oh Tanner, thank you so so so much. I can't express to you how much comfort I get from listening to your thoughts and I thank you for being brave enough to show your emotions and the pure love you have for people. I'm crying in a park now, just feeling solidarity for the people we've all lost to these harmful teaching. Thank you for being a beacon for pure love and support ❤️
This was a beautiful, loving video. It was making me teary. Thank you for this!
💜💜💜💜💜
Thanks for expressing your thoughts on your first queer relationship in such an honest and emotional way. I think a lot of people will connect with you on how their first queer relationship was life changing and really set off a path of personal growth.
Thank you so much!!! 🥹💜💜💜💜
The one and only time I tried to commit suicide was about a year/two into being a TBM because I "knew" that I was sinful, shameful, inherently flawed, and would never ever be able to express my gender or sexuality truly.
It is now, years after deconstruction, that I've finally accepted that I am nonbinary and sapphic AND that its AWESOME!
I will never forgive the church for the amount of people who have, or have tried to kill themselves just for being themself.
Your tears hit me hard, Tanner. Im glad that i didnt succeed that night.
💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜
Tanner, thank you for being so vulnerable about your journey. I'm a bisexual bigender wo/man raised mormon and I wept at church and assured my peers that sin was a choice and this I could not choose. My mom was a young women's teacher at the time and watched in silence as I was verbally torn to shreds. I wish u an ounce of the healing that hearing you has brought me, because even that would be life altering.
Y’all’s dynamic so balanced and inspiring. Each member supports, expresses, loves, protects, and challenges.
Also, wanted to reach out and give you a big hug! You are such beautiful people with beautiful souls. Thankyou for being here and being you ❤
!!!!! 💖💖💖
what a perfect video to keep me company as i crochet my slutty pride attire for this weekend 🥰 thank you both for bringing humor and universal empathy into the conversation, as always. and thank you tanner for the way you bring queer suffering into the light never without a heavy emphasis on radical queer joy. we may be fighting to end our suffering, but we will always, ALWAYS have our joy. nobody can take that away from us. love you both & happy mfing pride ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
One thing I regret is having my boy circumcised. Because it’s not my body it’s his. 😢
To the gay community: thank you sooooo much for opening my eyes to the insanity of some religious groups - my new life outside a cult is full of love and amazement.
Thanks!
Thank you!!!! 💜
I just appreciate you both so very much. I feel enriched by having your conversations in my life, and this video is a shining example of why I’m a patron. Thank you for this.
All the garden talk has the Joni Mitchell song, Woodstock, stuck in my head. Here’s the chorus:
“We are stardust, we are golden
We are billion-year-old carbon
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden”
Feels especially relevant right now. Sending you both big love.
I’m not crying 🥺💜💜💜
So I turned this video on to listen to while resting my eyes and recovering from a headache. Next thing I know I've taken one of those epic, much needed naps and I woke up to the part where Tanner was talking about his first queer experience opening up his ability to create music and the stuff about your whole nature being accepted in nature and I was like...... 😮 That's some beautiful powerful stuff right there.
So sorry not sorry that I slept through most of what you said, because that nap plus what I did hear has left me feeling very renewed body and soul. I think my headache is gone too. Thanks!
This was so powerful and I felt so seen in Tanner's vulnerability. Thank you so much for facilitating these conversations and creating such a healing space.
In December, I made the decision to stop attending church. However, my strong social dependency prevented me from leaving immediately. Over time, I came to realize that prioritizing an authentic life driven by the pursuit of truth was more important to me than seeking comfort within my social circles. Although leaving meant sacrificing a significant part of my happiness, I knew that ripping off the band-aid was inevitable; it was just a matter of when. Now, I find myself feeling incredibly lonely, without any close friends to speak of. While there have been people who have tried to befriend me, I tend to self-sabotage or push them away. The longing to rid myself of this life is so strong that at times I wish I could simply snap my fingers and cease to exist. Admittedly, without the support of my previous spiritual framework, my future prospects do not genuinely excite me at all. Everything seems devoid of meaning and inconsequential. In moments of desperation, I even consider going back and living a life of pretense just to belong in this seemingly barren world. I have heard the clichés before: "life is a process, be strong and keep moving forward" or "you'll eventually meet better people." However, the problem lies in the fact that people, in general, just infuriate me. They consistently manage to push my buttons. It is challenging to love and accept others when I struggle with self-hatred. Furthermore, it seems like every social group is plagued by backstabbing gossip or an inherent hierarchy. Not participating in such behavior only serves to further alienate me. I have no idea what I'm going to do now. I'm completely lost. Has anyone else had this experience?
I have absolutely had this experience. I know the pain so so intimately and while I don’t know enough about life to guarantee that everything will get better, I feel fairly confident that it will. I truly saw no way out of the position you just described, but now my life is so full of joy and love, it’s mind-blowing. I hope you can hang in there and stay curious and open to new possibilities. Sending so much love. 💜💜💜💜💜
Tanner you are a beautiful human being, inside and out, and I love hearing what you have to say. Thank you for all that you give here so freely and generously 💚
What Samantha said about your loving nature running all the way down was so true.
Thank you both 💚
Got a vasectomy in 2014. Being a Eunice has been okay for me.
woohoo fellow eunuch for the kingdom’s sake!
@@ZelphOntheShelf I did it for my own sanity. After 7 daughters I decided I had done enough multipling and replenishing.
I love you both so much, thank you for sharing Tanner. ❤ I dream about having my first queer experience and you’ve given me hope that it could happen for me, despite all the religious trauma. I hope it’s a beautiful experience, like yours was 🥲
thank you for all the work you do. Your videos are always incredible and insightful and I love the level of kindness, empathy and care that you approach everything with. Tanner's vulnerability/emotional openness really resonated. Loved the video, you're amazing, thank you for making the world a little better and more understanding
Thank you so much for this video, for your vulnerability, and for your wise words. One of our biggest reasons for leaving the church 10+ years ago was because of its anti-LGBTQIA+ rhetoric and the ways it's harmed my brother-in-law and two of our cousins. They each lived with so much shame and self-loathing for years because of it, and wasted so many hours trying to fast and pray the gay away. Luckily they've each since left the church and are thriving in their same-sex marriages, and we couldn't be happier for them. To show support for them, and to represent our exit from Mormonism, my husband got a tattoo of tapir with a rainbow abdomen 💟
This was SUCH a beautiful conversation. Thank you! ❤
Such a great discussion, as always. Thanks to you both for your candor, humor, and insight! algorithm algorithm
Such an important conversation, and done with love, intelligence and vulnerability 👏🥰 you two are amazing x
The two of you are so fantastic and such beacons of good. I respect you and your dedication to Love. Thank you for what you do.
Such underrated conversations ❤
1:27:30
Tanner your words here really reminded me of a Potawatomi ethnobotanist, Robin Wall-Kimmerer, who I highly admire (being Indigenous myself) and some words she spoke as a guest on the Native Seed Pod podcast about this that I think you'd find lovely. Honestly I think you'd adore that whole episode. (Also if you haven't read her book Braiding Sweetgrass I'd highly highly recommend it.)
Its a bit long, so I apologize, but I wouldn't take the time to write it out if I didn't think it would really be something you guys would appreciate.
I've saved this part of the conversation between her and the host Melissa because I think of the words so so often:
ROBIN: The idea that any of us is separate is a fiction. It is a fiction of Western individualism. And that idea of "I don't want to lose my individuality." No, but you want to-- I think at the heart of our deepest longing is to belong. And we do. We've just forgotten that.
MELISSA: It seems almost like such a poetic balance of belonging and kinship--knowing we are part of something greater than ourselves through that web of kin--and yet also there's a recognition of, rather than individualism as separateness, as the sovereignty of beings that you write about so beautifully with forest ecology. That each tree has a sovereignty of its own being, and yet is completely dependent and co-creating with these other beings--the little ants, the other seeds, the flowers, the birds. So how do you modulate that creative balance of sovereignty of being-ness with collective kinship?
ROBIN: What a wonderful question! I actually have been thinking about this in terms of the identity and personhood of all beings. And that is that this notion of sovereignty, of being? You really must be fully yourself in order to participate in the whole. If that fungus was trying to be a different fungus, if that pine was saying, "Well, I'd like to be more like a spruce," -- It wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. You have to be solid in your identity and be fully that pine in order for symbiosis to work.
I think of great teachers of that in Three Sisters gardening. Why does the whole work? Because corn is /distinctively/ corn. Corn brings her gifts. And if corn was other than that, it wouldn't work. The beans don't try to be the corn, the corn doesn't try to be the squash. The whole works because of the sovereignty of each being. So it is both an invitation to be fully oneself, knowing that whole would suffer if you weren't fully yourself. And I see the forest teaching us that. And its something that I really try to remember: that we have to be fully ourselves or else the rest of the co-creative process doesn't have our gift.
i love Robin Wall-Kimmerer! we had her for a salon at our house just before the pandemic! a true gem in every way
Thank you guys for your vulnerability and honesty as always. Tanner had me crying with him and so much of what he said rang true for me as well. Years ago I used to watch a lot of angry edgy atheist content and this channel has done so much to soften my heart and heal my sense of spirituality. Thanks for doing what you do 🩷
I sometimes get into hour and a half long shows, just wanting a brief explanation of things. This was well worth my full hour and a half. Thank you. 🙏
I feel so deeply about what Tanner talked about. It's why I left the church. I saw my friends hurting so badly at BYU, and I didn't want my baby growing up with that pain either. After leaving my partner and I have realized we're both queer and we have no idea how to connect with the queer community outside of the internet. :/
Awww, you guys are just awesome. Thank you for this. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
You are wonderful people. I love, love, love everything you have to say. Your honesty, authenticity and vulnerability have helped me immensely. Thank you.
Tanner, I am so glad that you are still on the planet. As a never mo who at age 9 while at a baptist service, realized that Christ loved everyone and yet the church was preaching hate, and I left organized religion. Your intelligence, your beautiful heart, and your great sense of humor are a gift to this world. Do recordings of your music exist and, if so, where? I’d love to hear it. I love what you and Sam put out in the world and am going to become a Patreon supporter. Thank you for being you.
Dude! I appreciate your insight on scientists. I am a science teacher who grew up in the SBC. My spirituality was so full and the more I searched for God the farther I got. Happy Easter!
Thank you for your vulnerability and honesty. This conversation is so important, and you’re handling it and us with grace and beauty as we feel through this together.
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Thank you Tanner for COOKING. This really needed to be said and it makes me sick to my stomach that these things happened to people and are still being suggested. Whether someone believes in God or not, it should make you sick. It’s like freaking leave queer people alone ❤
Anything other than heterosexual sex removes the control of the church over procreation and enriching the coffers of that church. It also promotes the patriarchy of the system. If two women are in a relationship, who is the authority? Can procreation be controlled? It causes severe anxiety for the patriarchy.
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The eunuchs seem like a much better comparison to asexuality in the born bit, but even there, the thought of it as something lesser makes it inherently problematic.
I was led to seriously consider becoming a eunuch after reading those scriptures, Doctrines of Salvation, and Mormon Doctrine, all about 8 years ago while in college. Hetero, btw. Came to the conclusion that this was the only way out of my sexual feelings that God wouldn’t take away from me when I begged him to, since I felt so guilty for pleasing myself once a month. It’s insane the damage the church does to people.
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This was so moving 🥹❤️☮️
A comment for the algorithm gods
Thank you!!!!!
And another.
@@Kalleron blessed are ye
Oh my goddess, listening to two hot, smart people talk about the intricacies of religion is my kink and I had no fucking idea. Honestly so much of my life makes more sense now.
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Yay another long video! Listening to you two always help me stay grounded ♥️
The New Testament gets too much credit among promos and even ex mormons because it's not AS crazy as the Old Testament.
Tanner you are so fucking brilliant and wise. I literally wrote down multiple quotes you spoke in this video to reflect on later. You blow me away with your deep and compassionate wisdom. I'm crying with you comrade. Love you buddy.
A gorgeous gorgeous episode.
I often watch your videos to help myself untangle the crazy web of religious trauma. As a queer woman, I felt all of that deep within me and I can't thank you both enough for everything you create.
Such a good discussion. Love you guys so much 🫶🏻
16:23 girl, you scared me I was driving and all the sudden I hear this faint alarm
Thank for sharing this, it made me cry because I’ve hardly been able to explore my queer identity because of my past beliefs. Thank you for opening up your beautiful heart and sharing. I have hope for a better future for queer people ❤
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wow i am so glad that you two exist!
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I am gay, and I grew up in a deeply religious household, evangelical. Now I am struggling a lot with if I still believe there is a god or not, and this channel is very helpful. I still am not sure, but I relate so hard to all of this.
Hi Tanner's dad!! Glad you're watching :) your son is incredible.
47:09 Just so you know, it's actually around 1500 species that have homosexual behaviors.
do you remember where you got that number? i’d love to read up!
@@ZelphOntheShelf I asked Bing AI
Tanner, I love your complete openess and exposing your vulnerabilty about who you are... how sad that the vast majority of people deny their true nature to conform to societal pressures from family, religion, etc!
I love you guys so much and you have really helped me through my ex mormon journey as a bi non-binary person ❤️
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Thank you!
Love your content!
Thank you for caring so much ❤❤
Proclamation to the world projects the American 1950’s to be the ideal societal roles. Fortunately, the world moves forward and the members are responding to the changes.
I was repulsed by the idea of being a “stay at home dads” until I met a counselor in the bishopric supported his wife in her career opportunities. Going against the proclamation. 😁
Bonobos are the most interesting primates. Awesome video!!
❤❤❤to Tanner, first of all-and to his dad.
On another topic: Please don’t make the mistake of lumping all “Christians” or Christian churches together! There were in fact Christian ministers and churches who actively denounced slavery and worked to overturn it. Henry Ward Beecher, a Congregationalist pastor, was an abolitionist. And in today’s world, liberal Christian churches are drowned out by the conservative evangelical ones.
thanks for the reminder! ❤️
I'm kind of late to the party here, but if you are curious about the history of eunuchs there is a great episode on it by the podcast 'Betwixt the sheets".
Jesus also talked about parables
Tanner is spittin 😤💪🔥
When he said “this church is a heterosexual church” around 36:00, I choked on my food laughing. What is this church’s gender? Is this church on any dating apps and single? Lolol
Eunuchs came into the queer conversation with the publication of the WPATH SOC 8. A chapter on Eunuchs was added as an indentity so not so out of place. Circumstances are very different but Eunuchs are in the modern conversation.
Beautiful video, thanks for sharing tanner
Beautiful thanks!
Why did you snip the video about three categories, without an explanation??
Here is what I found :
“The Romans classified eunuchs into three categories: spadones, who were infertile males from birth, thlibiae, whose testicles had been “pressed,” thladiae, whose testicles had been “crushed,” and castrati, whose unit was cut off or lost altogether. “
I'm reading through all 3 Doctrine of Salvations and I can't find that reference about genderlessness, just that they'll be servants
I realized after I deconstructed how modern Christian ideology was blocking my empathy. I think I was always headed toward deconstruction because (and I'm not trying to sound cringe) of my natural inclination towards empathy. I've always had a soft heart and it was just slowly eroded over time. Part of becoming an adult for me has been connecting back to my childhood self and realizing that she was wise to feel so deeply.
Nowadays, I don't understand why Christians have such a hardline opposition to homosexuality, transness, gender as a spectrum ,etc. Why is it considered a sin? Cause it's unnatural, it's Satan trying to warp God's creation? Tell me why then do we see homosexuality and a whole different variety of biological sexes in animals? Are you saying that Satan created sex diversity in animals?
ALSO they didn't really care about "protecting" or "guarding" the sex slaves in the harem, they just didn't want them getting pregnant by someone else. Because lets be honest, you don't have to have genitals to SA a person. So it wasn't like this was a "necessary evil" that kings did back in the day for the righteous cause of protecting women or whatever, it was about control and treating women as property.
I love you people 😍😘❤️
I listen to Jarad, and I tend to enjoy his scriptural insights
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Omg i was just reading esther for personal reason, and it got me to thinking about how likely it was that people who may consider themselves trans today may have volunteered to be eunuchs way back when.
Just as a thought (sexuality is nuanced trans is a present day term blah blah i know) but hey hello this video
Where would Marcus Bachmann figure into all this 🤔😕😳
36:42 “the lord has 3 types of Eunuchs in mind. “😄
41:45 make themselves Eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. Calling Fake Doctor Marshall Applewhite from Heaven’s Gate.
The thing about the nature nurture thing is it actually isn't important regarding homosexuality because there's no issue with it. The only people it bothers are homophobes. Let's study stuff like schizophrenia, that actually causes people real grief.
music? did he say music? Uh-oh ... a future Eurovision fan.... :)
And some women are to be eternal concubines for God too. Woooooo!
Welp, I guess that if the Mormons are right about heaven, I’ll be a gay eunuch. Idk how I feel about that
I love you, Tanner, and Sam, but mostly Tanner. Jk😂❤
No that’s understandable haha
Sam, I only said that because of that song from Book of Mormon the musical…”but, mostly me”. I think you are wonderful. I’m 58 and could be both of you guys’ mom, and I love all of my ex mo friends.
666th like hehe