I bought my first bike in Fall 1987, after spending a vacation riding dirt bikes on the islands of Greece (mostly Paros). It was a 1976 CB500T. I bought it off a guy going through his third divorce. Drinking what seemed to be gallons of warm beer over ice, he told many memorable things to this impressionable lad, such as "marriage is an economic thing." He kept his motorcycles at his father's house, and after a brief tour of his rental property check ins (with rent due in two days, he would pull into the driveways of his rentals, and honk his horn 'to remind them') we arrived at his dad's farm. He owned a dozen or so bikes, and I rode a few, but the only one I was interested in, the only one I had enough money for, was the cb500t. It, apparently, was his "exception" bike. He had many rules for motorcycles, but the cb500t was always the exception. Always buy a repair manual, never cut the wiring harness, never dropped a bike, never leave parked outside..... But, of course, he would then add 'except that bike.'. To be clear, the bike was not in running condition, had been dropped, with one visibly bent fork and cracked primary cover, was parked outside, and the seat had split from rot. The engine did have oil in it, and the pistons were not seized. I paid $150 bucks for it. Over the next few months, I went through all the steps of resurrecting that bike, getting spark, stripping it and painting frame, rebuilt brakes, carbs, wheels, forks, etc. I even made a new seat, stitching it out of sheet leather I had. I drank what was certainly gallons of beer, and broke a few of my girlfriends rules, such as "do not start motorcycle without headers in kitchen." I found out used parts were cheaper at salvage yards when you show up in grease stained clothes. Over the next few years, I rebuilt the top end, the clutch, the transmission which had some sticking and false neutrals from the previous owner drop. The early days of the internet, Usenet rec.motorcycles.repair was extremely useful. Met some great guys at a local bike shop, owner was super kind and helpful, taking care of the things I couldn't do but giving lots of helpful advice for the things I wanted to learn. I rode that bike many 1000s of miles, day long trips into the smoky mountains, and all over the back roads of east TN. Never stranded. The bike got me through college and graduate school as a daily commuter. I sold it in 94 when I moved overseas (with newly married) wife to teach in Central Europe, after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Back in the states now. Still married... It is truly an economic thing! I did learn, after the rise of the internet, that the cb500t was a maligned bike. But, similar power and more dependable than it's British inspiration. I think the appearance of the first "superbikes" was part of the reason it got a bad rap. Perhaps I would be dead if I had had enough money to buy a superbike at the age of 22... Anyway, I wish I still had that bike. I'd buy one again if I could find one that hasn't been all chopped up/cafe racered, etc. Honda Reliable, simple enough to work on for the average bear, with enough power and range to learn how to ride without killing yourself. Only two carbs, which was a big plus in my book. Fond memories of a dependable friend. It was a good time and a good life!
Hi there, great story! There's very few 500Ts left here too. I've ridden in the Smoky Mountains with a friend of mine who lives just a mile or so from the start of the Dragon. I got pulled over and roasted by a trooper for crossing the double lines on my KTM LC4 a few years ago when I was in Tn for a holiday. Lovely part of the world
I have an older '66 Honda CB 450T that I upgraded to the 500T engine . . . . . My Ex-father in law built it into a chopper - way before I came onto the scene . . . . . .. Fast Forward 33 years ... I am now helping my son to rebuild the entire bike as a family heirloom ;) I have a feeling it already means more than all the money in the world ...... He's never seen it run . he will ;)
Fantastic! My daily driver year round is a 75 CB500T, and I love it! There aren’t so many around here in the states, so it’s always nice to see another one still going.
Hi there. Very few left here either. Ours mostly rotted out decades ago so its nice to find a solid one even if the styling was stuck in the 70s. It made a really good looking bike. Thanks for watching
I've got a 1976 cb500t that hasn't moved in at least 35 years. It's been neglected and out in the weather but I've taken on the challenge of getting it working again. This video has given me some inspiration for sure, yours sounds awesome!!
Hi Zander. Someone had taken the baffles out of the exhausts on this one. They have a little bark as you can hear but they're not offensive. These are really good bikes so do the bike world a favour and put some time into it....I bet you can get it going . Good luck and don't be shy if you need some advice. You can mail me on rodcurrie88@gmail.com. Thanks for watching and for your comment
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 ahh well looking at mine both exhausts are pretty rotten through. It's going to take a while but I'll get there. Thanks for replying and the offer of advice, really appreciate that!
They can fetch reasonably good money from the classic racer boys but as a road bike they are a total abortion of a machine, all revs but no power and a poor upgrade from the much superior 450 Black Bomber.
You're not dead yet David. :0) Get a little CL 350 and have a ball tooling along up to 60 mph on backroads. They're great bikes and bulletproof Thanks for watching, Rod
I had a 1975 CB500T no one liked it bar me I thought it was the most ride friendly bike I ever owned the engine sound and for me it’s looks were fantastic, I would love to see yours after restoration
Had a 1972 CB450 and loved it. When the 500 came out it was shot down by the magazine talking heads, and with less hp and more weight than the 450, maybe rightfully so. Now, both have classical styling and were bullet proof in the day.
I had one of these from 1981 to 1985. I loved it, it would do 105 MPH flat out. I didn't recon much on the brakes tho, so I took advantage of the provision on the right fork leg to mount a second disk on the right side which improved the braking significantly. I guess I did about 40 -50k on it, partly as a dispatch rider in London. Great Bike which I miss in spite of my beloved GSX1100f that I have owned since 1990 and done about 250k on.
Thanks for the comment. Hondas. Nothing like them for quality in the 70s.. Despatching was a tough gig in the day...no idea if it still is. My cousin used to do it in the 80s and I remember him arriving at my work with his beard and moustache full of ice.
Hard too find now. .....even harder with original exhausts ands some of the aftermarket ones are pretty grim. But Iif you want one, just wait...one will come along. Thanks for watching
I've never seen a red CB500T before, here in the UK they were offered in brown with gold pinstripes and a black seat or orange with black pinstripes and a brown seat. The CB500T was styled similarly to a British motorcycle, especially the shape of the silencers. Unfortunately the CB500T was not as popular as the CB450 "Black Bomber" that it replaced.
Hi David. They look better in the red in my opinion and you're right they weren't hugely well received here at the time though paradoxically they have a following now. This one was a lovely bike to ride once I took it's period clothing off and put it back to standard. Thanks for watching
There were actually 3 colours - brown, red and orange. The most common in the UK was brown - which was the colour of the one I had in the early 80's (a 1975 P plate) - I liked it but no one else did, including the mechanics that worked on it. It wasnt the machine it was its image that made it unpopular
Exactly. It was no longer the glamorous bad boy it had been when it was the CB450 after the CB 750, 500-4, and Z1 arrived. . Still a great bike with a lovely sound if you took the baffles out and still not too noisy. Lovely engine. Thanks for watching
I've found a very good example of this bike for 2300 euros in Greece. The only problem is that the electric starter is faulty. I'm worried about the bike's fuel consumption and the availability of spare parts. I would really care for the opinion of other owners
The starter motor isn't usually the problem, but the starter clutch. If the motor spins up but only briefly or not at all turns the engine, It'll be the starter clutch. You can buy kits to repair the clutch...though it doesn't always work and a better way to resolve is to buy a used "known good" starter clutch. Fuel consumption will be 45-ish to a gallon so comparable with others bikes of the era. There are LOADS of spares for them as many of the bikes parts are shared with other models. Hope that helps. Rod
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 Thank you so much for the reply. Yeah I actually talked to the owner and he said that the starter motor spins but doesn't always couple so the clutch is indeed the problem. I'm having a tough time deciding between this bike and a much newer and more economical Kawasaki estrella 250. Cheers
Can barely hear your audio until 6:35 min in. I have had three CB450's (still have two) and now own one of these CB500T's. Period road tests of the 1975 model said it vibrated terribly and was unreliable, but my 1976 is pretty smooth and can cruise at 80 mph no sweat. Does not handle anywhere as well as my 1968 450 or my 1972 450 nor does it rev as well and is probably slower accelerating. Top speed is 5 mph faster. A fine commuter or short tourer. Ugly compared to the 1968-74 CB450's. Mine is for sale for US$3300. Only 12,500 miles. new tires, front brake rebuilt (was dragging). The carbs were rebuilt. On all my old Hondas the idle jets clog up from sitting. Best to drain the float bowls over the winter. All bikes with points can get corroded from sitting so like Rod did run thin paper between them when closed, or better yet very fine sandpaper or emery paper. Don't do more than 2 or 3 swipes or you will reduce the gap and advance the timing.
yeah...but that one was a gel battery straight out of the box and allegedly "fit and go". I expect to have to top them off...but not have it flat as soon as it arrives. I've sent several back recently to another seller as they simply won't hold a charge.
I had one it was a good bike . It outhandled a xs650 I had at the same time. Easy enough to weld the exhaust, it's out of sight so a careful weld will do .
I'd rather fit a "new old" pipe if I can, as I like to sell them in top condition-but finding one has so far proved impossible and it may yet come to welding.
Is the seat on the Candy Antares Red models black or brown? I just bought what was a Glory Brown model with a bad paint job on the tank and seat. It has a dark brown saddle, but I’d like to paint it this color red. It only has 2900 miles!
Yes the Red bikes have a black seat and the "glory" brown ones a brown seat. It was a 70s thing...everything was brown, car interiors, domestic carpets and furniture. So glad we left THAT behind us. Thanks for watching
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 After I posted this, I did some searching, and the Antares Red may have also come with a brown seat. There are several that come up. Either way, very nice old motorcycles that were unfairly maligned!
It was the 500/4 really killed the 450 for the UK market anyway and others it carried on in the US and Germany maybe France but that was it. This is a US market one I think going by the indicators.
Maybe the Germans insisted? You'd have to ask Honda.I have a CX 500 here that's a US model. Single disc and its just about Ok as a brake. Europe and K models had twin disc. Love it as I do, I assure you its not because of the bikes performance....maybe its weight?
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 thank you I think your videos are informative these days I would need a trike that my wheel chair could go I don’t see many of them about though
Thanks for your comment. Trikes are a love/hate thing aren't they. Not many in the UK for sure and I'm not sure if many CXes were made in to trikes at all. I'm sure someone will chime in if I'm incorrect. Thanks again, Rod
the Mk 1 Ford Escort rear axle was the axle of choice for CX trike conversions, almost bolted straight on, I have used a CX 650ec engine in one of my boats, worked a treat and very economical.@@rodcurrieclassics8102
Hi Simon, Couldn't agree more. This 500 T was a super bike overlooked in its day in favour of more glamorous multis ...but when the 450 came out it was the coolest bike on the block. I have a gorgeous 6700 mile XS500 but people want the 650 which in my opinion isn't nearly as good a bike-and I've had them both. Just my opinion mind and worth no more than the next guy's.
Hi Rick. Parallel twins will never be a smooth as a four or even better a triple due to the angles on the crank, but these are usually pretty smooth for that engine config. Its just my own opinion but I love these engines.The 500Ts weren't loved as a model when they came out but have a strong following now. Thanks for watching
I bought my first bike in Fall 1987, after spending a vacation riding dirt bikes on the islands of Greece (mostly Paros). It was a 1976 CB500T. I bought it off a guy going through his third divorce. Drinking what seemed to be gallons of warm beer over ice, he told many memorable things to this impressionable lad, such as "marriage is an economic thing." He kept his motorcycles at his father's house, and after a brief tour of his rental property check ins (with rent due in two days, he would pull into the driveways of his rentals, and honk his horn 'to remind them') we arrived at his dad's farm. He owned a dozen or so bikes, and I rode a few, but the only one I was interested in, the only one I had enough money for, was the cb500t. It, apparently, was his "exception" bike. He had many rules for motorcycles, but the cb500t was always the exception. Always buy a repair manual, never cut the wiring harness, never dropped a bike, never leave parked outside..... But, of course, he would then add 'except that bike.'. To be clear, the bike was not in running condition, had been dropped, with one visibly bent fork and cracked primary cover, was parked outside, and the seat had split from rot. The engine did have oil in it, and the pistons were not seized. I paid $150 bucks for it.
Over the next few months, I went through all the steps of resurrecting that bike, getting spark, stripping it and painting frame, rebuilt brakes, carbs, wheels, forks, etc. I even made a new seat, stitching it out of sheet leather I had. I drank what was certainly gallons of beer, and broke a few of my girlfriends rules, such as "do not start motorcycle without headers in kitchen." I found out used parts were cheaper at salvage yards when you show up in grease stained clothes.
Over the next few years, I rebuilt the top end, the clutch, the transmission which had some sticking and false neutrals from the previous owner drop. The early days of the internet, Usenet rec.motorcycles.repair was extremely useful. Met some great guys at a local bike shop, owner was super kind and helpful, taking care of the things I couldn't do but giving lots of helpful advice for the things I wanted to learn.
I rode that bike many 1000s of miles, day long trips into the smoky mountains, and all over the back roads of east TN. Never stranded. The bike got me through college and graduate school as a daily commuter. I sold it in 94 when I moved overseas (with newly married) wife to teach in Central Europe, after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Back in the states now. Still married... It is truly an economic thing! I did learn, after the rise of the internet, that the cb500t was a maligned bike. But, similar power and more dependable than it's British inspiration. I think the appearance of the first "superbikes" was part of the reason it got a bad rap. Perhaps I would be dead if I had had enough money to buy a superbike at the age of 22...
Anyway, I wish I still had that bike. I'd buy one again if I could find one that hasn't been all chopped up/cafe racered, etc. Honda Reliable, simple enough to work on for the average bear, with enough power and range to learn how to ride without killing yourself. Only two carbs, which was a big plus in my book. Fond memories of a dependable friend. It was a good time and a good life!
Hi there, great story! There's very few 500Ts left here too. I've ridden in the Smoky Mountains with a friend of mine who lives just a mile or so from the start of the Dragon. I got pulled over and roasted by a trooper for crossing the double lines on my KTM LC4 a few years ago when I was in Tn for a holiday. Lovely part of the world
I have an older '66 Honda CB 450T that I upgraded to the 500T engine . . . . . My Ex-father in law built it into a chopper - way before I came onto the scene . . . . . .. Fast Forward 33 years ... I am now helping my son to rebuild the entire bike as a family heirloom ;) I have a feeling it already means more than all the money in the world ...... He's never seen it run . he will ;)
You bet. They're great engines and bulletproof. Good luck with the resto and thanks for watching. Rod
Fantastic! My daily driver year round is a 75 CB500T, and I love it! There aren’t so many around here in the states, so it’s always nice to see another one still going.
Hi there. Very few left here either. Ours mostly rotted out decades ago so its nice to find a solid one even if the styling was stuck in the 70s. It made a really good looking bike. Thanks for watching
I've got a 1976 cb500t that hasn't moved in at least 35 years. It's been neglected and out in the weather but I've taken on the challenge of getting it working again. This video has given me some inspiration for sure, yours sounds awesome!!
Hi Zander. Someone had taken the baffles out of the exhausts on this one. They have a little bark as you can hear but they're not offensive. These are really good bikes so do the bike world a favour and put some time into it....I bet you can get it going . Good luck and don't be shy if you need some advice. You can mail me on rodcurrie88@gmail.com. Thanks for watching and for your comment
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 ahh well looking at mine both exhausts are pretty rotten through. It's going to take a while but I'll get there. Thanks for replying and the offer of advice, really appreciate that!
No problem Zander. Aftermarket stuff can be had that looks pretty good on the bike. Good luck with it, and just keep on and you'll get there.
Out in the weather !
Horrible sale it
They can fetch reasonably good money from the classic racer boys but as a road bike they are a total abortion of a machine, all revs but no power and a poor upgrade from the much superior 450 Black Bomber.
Ahh my era only trouble is I’m dropping to bits now. Love it
You're not dead yet David. :0) Get a little CL 350 and have a ball tooling along up to 60 mph on backroads. They're great bikes and bulletproof
Thanks for watching, Rod
I had a 1975 CB500T no one liked it bar me I thought it was the most ride friendly bike I ever owned the engine sound and for me it’s looks were fantastic, I would love to see yours after restoration
Watch this then Colin and thanks for the comment.Best, Rod . th-cam.com/video/0qKWW_u0-r0/w-d-xo.html
Thoroughly enjoyed this video. Harks back to simpler times
Had a 1972 CB450 and loved it. When the 500 came out it was shot down by the magazine talking heads, and with less hp and more weight than the 450, maybe rightfully so. Now, both have classical styling and were bullet proof in the day.
I had one of these from 1981 to 1985. I loved it, it would do 105 MPH flat out. I didn't recon much on the brakes tho, so I took advantage of the provision on the right fork leg to mount a second disk on the right side which improved the braking significantly. I guess I did about 40 -50k on it, partly as a dispatch rider in London. Great Bike which I miss in spite of my beloved GSX1100f that I have owned since 1990 and done about 250k on.
Thanks for the comment. Hondas. Nothing like them for quality in the 70s.. Despatching was a tough gig in the day...no idea if it still is. My cousin used to do it in the 80s and I remember him arriving at my work with his beard and moustache full of ice.
Really nice video and I love that model.
Thanks John. It really is a sweet bike. I've another vid up of its first ride out. Have a look!
th-cam.com/video/0qKWW_u0-r0/w-d-xo.html
Loved mine back in 1980. rode it around France and used as a long-distance despatch mount as well. I'd have another if I could afford it.
Hard too find now. .....even harder with original exhausts ands some of the aftermarket ones are pretty grim. But Iif you want one, just wait...one will come along. Thanks for watching
There is one in Nikiski Alaska with 4300 miles for $2,500.00
I've never seen a red CB500T before, here in the UK they were offered in brown with gold pinstripes and a black seat or orange with black pinstripes and a brown seat. The CB500T was styled similarly to a British motorcycle, especially the shape of the silencers. Unfortunately the CB500T was not as popular as the CB450 "Black Bomber" that it replaced.
Hi David. They look better in the red in my opinion and you're right they weren't hugely well received here at the time though paradoxically they have a following now. This one was a lovely bike to ride once I took it's period clothing off and put it back to standard. Thanks for watching
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 Thank you for your reply and ride safely.
I love how the handlebars fit snuggly behind the fairing! :) sounds okay though doesn't it
The fairing is off now, as is the top-box and luggage rack. There's a limit to what a man can stand....
I have also ordered some standard bars so it won't look like you should ride it with long shoes and a red nose.
There were actually 3 colours - brown, red and orange. The most common in the UK was brown - which was the colour of the one I had in the early 80's (a 1975 P plate) - I liked it but no one else did, including the mechanics that worked on it. It wasnt the machine it was its image that made it unpopular
Exactly. It was no longer the glamorous bad boy it had been when it was the CB450 after the CB 750, 500-4, and Z1 arrived. . Still a great bike with a lovely sound if you took the baffles out and still not too noisy. Lovely engine. Thanks for watching
Had one in 76 and my P reg 500T was brown too. Loved the bike and the colour. 👍🏻
I had one 84-87 and loved it...had shorties on it sounded great..
Got ran over by a bin lorry whilst parked..
Dayamm! Shame for sure but you weren't on its so its just a tale and not a tragedy eh? Thanks for watching
I've found a very good example of this bike for 2300 euros in Greece. The only problem is that the electric starter is faulty. I'm worried about the bike's fuel consumption and the availability of spare parts. I would really care for the opinion of other owners
The starter motor isn't usually the problem, but the starter clutch. If the motor spins up but only briefly or not at all turns the engine, It'll be the starter clutch. You can buy kits to repair the clutch...though it doesn't always work and a better way to resolve is to buy a used "known good" starter clutch.
Fuel consumption will be 45-ish to a gallon so comparable with others bikes of the era. There are LOADS of spares for them as many of the bikes parts are shared with other models. Hope that helps. Rod
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 Thank you so much for the reply. Yeah I actually talked to the owner and he said that the starter motor spins but doesn't always couple so the clutch is indeed the problem. I'm having a tough time deciding between this bike and a much newer and more economical Kawasaki estrella 250. Cheers
Can barely hear your audio until 6:35 min in. I have had three CB450's (still have two) and now own one of these CB500T's. Period road tests of the 1975 model said it vibrated terribly and was unreliable, but my 1976 is pretty smooth and can cruise at 80 mph no sweat. Does not handle anywhere as well as my 1968 450 or my 1972 450 nor does it rev as well and is probably slower accelerating. Top speed is 5 mph faster. A fine commuter or short tourer. Ugly compared to the 1968-74 CB450's. Mine is for sale for US$3300. Only 12,500 miles. new tires, front brake rebuilt (was dragging). The carbs were rebuilt. On all my old Hondas the idle jets clog up from sitting. Best to drain the float bowls over the winter. All bikes with points can get corroded from sitting so like Rod did run thin paper between them when closed, or better yet very fine sandpaper or emery paper. Don't do more than 2 or 3 swipes or you will reduce the gap and advance the timing.
I know it's 10 years younger but it'd be good to compare the eight valve XS 500 and the Honda. Modern batteries need modern chargers nowadays.
yeah...but that one was a gel battery straight out of the box and allegedly "fit and go". I expect to have to top them off...but not have it flat as soon as it arrives. I've sent several back recently to another seller as they simply won't hold a charge.
My current ride 1981 kz650 Kawasaki
Love older Japanese motorcycles
yeah...me too. Didn't like the blocky 80s bikes much but the 70s stuff was in my opinion sublime
I had one it was a good bike . It outhandled a xs650 I had at the same time. Easy enough to weld the exhaust, it's out of sight so a careful weld will do .
I'd rather fit a "new old" pipe if I can, as I like to sell them in top condition-but finding one has so far proved impossible and it may yet come to welding.
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 if you're near me I'll have a look at welding it if you like
I'm near Sheffield Will and thanks for the kind offer
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 it's fine, I've been welding a couple of holes in my cd175 mudguard today , it's 20 thou thick 😆 .5 millimetre
whereabouts in the UK are you Will?
Is the seat on the Candy Antares Red models black or brown? I just bought what was a Glory Brown model with a bad paint job on the tank and seat. It has a dark brown saddle, but I’d like to paint it this color red. It only has 2900 miles!
Yes the Red bikes have a black seat and the "glory" brown ones a brown seat. It was a 70s thing...everything was brown, car interiors, domestic carpets and furniture. So glad we left THAT behind us. Thanks for watching
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 After I posted this, I did some searching, and the Antares Red may have also come with a brown seat. There are several that come up. Either way, very nice old motorcycles that were unfairly maligned!
Hi Dan. Well every day's a schoolday eh? Thanks for letting me know
It was the 500/4 really killed the 450 for the UK market anyway and others it carried on in the US and Germany maybe France but that was it. This is a US market one I think going by the indicators.
More the 550/4, the 500/4 was nothing special and very slow, the extra 50cc made a world of difference in the 550 cc machine
Why did the German one have twin disc brake on the front wheel
Maybe the Germans insisted? You'd have to ask Honda.I have a CX 500 here that's a US model. Single disc and its just about Ok as a brake. Europe and K models had twin disc. Love it as I do, I assure you its not because of the bikes performance....maybe its weight?
@@rodcurrieclassics8102 thank you I think your videos are informative these days I would need a trike that my wheel chair could go I don’t see many of them about though
Thanks for your comment. Trikes are a love/hate thing aren't they. Not many in the UK for sure and I'm not sure if many CXes were made in to trikes at all.
I'm sure someone will chime in if I'm incorrect. Thanks again, Rod
the Mk 1 Ford Escort rear axle was the axle of choice for CX trike conversions, almost bolted straight on, I have used a CX 650ec engine in one of my boats, worked a treat and very economical.@@rodcurrieclassics8102
Dont run it without cleaning the oil filter out ..
Bit like my poor old XS500. Under rated in my opinion , but a good bike.
Hi Simon, Couldn't agree more. This 500 T was a super bike overlooked in its day in favour of more glamorous multis ...but when the 450 came out it was the coolest bike on the block. I have a gorgeous 6700 mile XS500 but people want the 650 which in my opinion isn't nearly as good a bike-and I've had them both. Just my opinion mind and worth no more than the next guy's.
Beautiful old gal
Looked a little period-weird when it arrived but made a lovely bike
bikes actually made noise even when stock back then.
Yeah. these sound lovely don't they? Thanks for watching
M-M-M-Mine vvvvvibrated ttttterribly
Hi Rick. Parallel twins will never be a smooth as a four or even better a triple due to the angles on the crank, but these are usually pretty smooth for that engine config. Its just my own opinion but I love these engines.The 500Ts weren't loved as a model when they came out but have a strong following now. Thanks for watching
I keep thinking. .. .Might it just be a timming - thing ? . . . . Mine also viberated my arms - off ;-((