Hunter and shoe are like two former arsonists who were released from prison, but hunter became a fire fighter, started programs to help those who lose things in fires and rehab for fellow former arsonists, and shoe is still playing with matches next to houses and when small fires start to break out she makes uwu eyes and says sorry I didn’t mean it
For me, their projected exits from the far right are like an alcoholic’s recovery phrase. For Hunter, he’s 2 years sober and never touched alcohol. Shoe is like that alcoholic who had periods of sobriety because good friends helped her along the way. But, in this analogy, had relapsed into drinking because she got sucked into drinking by bad peers and as a result, had a hangover.
This video summarized: Shoe basically acts as a comedian instead of a commentator, with mostly good beliefs but mostly bad public PR skills as she doesn't think before she posts and defends herself in an anti-intellectual manner
@@---rm8do Except Shaun does think himself as a commentator first. It's not quite analogous, but yes, both do dumb on twitter. Don't think Shaun's done anything on the scale of associating with a rightwing advocacy group, though.
@@iblamegravity1 So all those political videos she's made since her start on TH-cam to now isn't at all political commentary? Or how she is on twitter? She just happens to be a comedian that uses politics a looooooooooooot and for pretty much all of her material.
Recently, I've just become burned out on Shoe. Her persona worked for me at one point but it's just annoying for me at this point. I don't think she's the worst thing ever but her reactionary "I absolutely have to own the libs no matter what" tendencies have just gotten old. I wish her nothing but success because I really don't think she's a far right shill or anything, but that's my worthless and not asked for two cents on everything.
It's natural to grow in your views and personal alliances you make. It's what people do. For some people, they do quite the opposite, especially as they get older. It's okay to move on from watching these personalities.
Yeah, Kyle K and shoe got old to me with that "always have to own the libs even if it means endorsing conspiracy and alt right" I unsubbed from shoe.. might be soon with kyle.. I just feel like I've outgrown it
I thought of it like 5 seconds before someone in chat said it. I wish I was in chat. I should've been the one who came up with it first. Alas, I don't watch the streams. I just watch the clips afterwards.
Yeah, I wanted her to quit that anti-feminist stuff a long time ago, but we all "wake up" at our own pace. She's still way too nice to right wing lunatics.
Her anti-feminist stuff was good and correct because feminism in practice is, by and large, fake egalitarianism. Being openly chummy with righties is indeed bad, but I haven't seen her do it since she started feeling the Bern. What gives you the sense that she's still doing that?
@@synchronium24 I don't know what you mean by fake egalitarianism, a lot of feminism acknowledges that patriarchy hurts men as well, and includes men in the equation. It is of course feminism not masculinism, and not broad humanism, so don't expect it to focus on men's issues or race issues. Keep in mind, I used to think feminism was cringe and female supremacy at one point, until I actually learned that most feminism is not the SJW meme rational skeptics like to push.
@@synchronium24 feminism is probably the most important activism coz it applies to ~ 50% of human population which in every country is not treated equaly or they live in literal hell. As a Polish person who saw in 2020 how theoreticaly 1st world democratic country can become incredibly misogynic in a brink of an eye I wont accept feminism being treated like something we dont need nowadays or need less
Joe Rhogan is the same. Also acknowledging you are dumb is basicly a cop out of being held responsible. Usually dumb people dont recognize they are dumb, and its also disengenious cause ofc they dont think they are dumb cause then they would stop engaging in the field they claim to be dumb about. If i say i am dumb on car stuff, you wont see me go and do fiddle around with the brakes, i will stay far away from that cause i know currently it wouldnt be a good idea for me to engage there.
"Self improvement" is just adapting to some groups of people so they would accept/like you. Of course, if no one of you is looking, I make black humour-jokes and behave like I want to. Who will drag me to court? And to what court? Wake up. People wont be honest and will lie if they are threatened by stigmatisation.
when I call shoe a "grifter" I don't mean that she's a right winger appealing to a lefty audience. I mean precisely the opposite. she's a lefty who deliberately avoids talking about her socially left wing positions in order to keep her right wing audience on board
Basically what you're saying is: "I don't want to accept the fact that shoe is a right winger so I'm just going to say that she's a leftist who says right wing things in order to keep her right wing audience on board!!1!1!!!1!! "Let's also not question why she even has a right wing audience to begin with!11!1!1!!!11!!1!!1"
@@TheUnstableNutcase given the way she interacts with people on her youtube and pretty much anywhere but twitter, I think its pretty safe to say that she has fairly left wing economic positions and is socially liberal with "anti woke" tendencies. however, she absolutely hides the fact that she is accepting of trans and gay people to appeal to her right wing audience, considering she avoids the topic entirely on twitter. basically, shoe is stupid, yes, but she's also a grifter.
Honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad thing. It’s somewhat the reverse pipeline of what she was before. Of course, using the same methods is er, problematic.
Shoe isn’t a grifter, she’s just very shallow and not deeply intelligent and doesn’t think anything through ever, which is why her opinions and stances change constantly, and she can’t defend them. She’s just an empty vase.
From what I've seen her opinions haven't really changed at all. They've just clarified. She's not anti-feminist, she's anti-second-wave. She is not anti-woke, she's anti-wokescold/anti-authoritarian. Focusing her ire on the parts that are actually bad. Get it?
Yes they do change, based on who she is speaking to. Because she is shallow and is more concerned with being likeable than with being consistent. Vaush is right, the more the left shuns her the more bad right wing takes she’ll adopt, which is a red flag. Your stances shouldn’t be based on how other people perceive you.
@Zoe -Xe, Xim- not at all. independent is someone who uses their brain, instead of following ideology. you are no better than the alt-right. you are quite literally as bad as them.
@@owo6641 "independent from what?" ideology. it means thinking for yourself instead of being a sheep like the "centrists" or the "leftists" or the "rightists".
26:00 This whole section is kinda sad. The thought that Shoe is talking to rightwingers because they are the only ones who talk to her, and right rightwingers are talking to shoe because they can use her.
@@JCOdrjones not that many people are terminally online. Most commenters don't care and/or could be dragged left with her. If she did a good job for a few years people would have different opinions, she just has to actually change
ya just because my friend love to build bonfire and wear white hood every weekend doesn't mean he isn't a nice guy, he only use N word in every other sentence. I seriously don't think shoe is going to change, she value her social life more than being socially responsible.
Honestly this is weird for me. I was blatantly transphobic and homophobic during my early high school days and was somehow still able to maintain a close friendship with a trans and gay person and it would turn out they would be the reason I moved over to the left. So I'm thinking is it okay to be friends with a bigot if you're actively trying to move them over or?
@@Nana-wi4gi I joke, but I think Vaush is probably right that there's a difference between personal friendships and public ties. If your friendships move over your audience, that's a huge problem. But if you're privately friends with odious people, that's probably even a good thing. I don't even think you need to actively try to move them over, because that probably won't work.
@@Nana-wi4gi There is a huge difference in a child who is still learning what ideological position they will grow in to and someone who has already grown in to an adult and had their ideal cemented. It's a magnificent idea that people change, but usually they simply.. Don't.
On one of her last live streams, a bunch of her right wing followers were trying to move her when she was complaining about the Democratic Party. She reiterated the criticisms of the DNC, then specifically called out the right wingers replying by calling all of their candidates "dogshit" while laughing hysterically.
Maybe she should fucking stop laughing? The reason they don't think she really means it is, she doesn't really mean it. Anything. Ever. She never manages to speak without giggling like a fucking child. They aren't going to believe she's serious until she stops with the winking behavior. Stop giggling. Stop posting cutesy emojis. And just fucking say, dead pan, right into the camera, "I don't like you. I don't agree with you. And btw, I'm very sorry to the real women I was incredibly cruel to, and really did hurt. It's a real hurt. They werne't stupid, I was. Feminism isn't ridiculous, I have been. And I want you right wingers to go the fuck away, forever." But she won't. So why would they believe her?
@@SplotPublishing She makes an effort to not push anyone away. As long as she then pushes those people to the left - and, as a rule, she does even if she's not perfect or 100% consistent on it, partially because she's not even a leftist - I'm OK with that. All you accomplish by gatekeeping your audience is guarantee the left stays small. People like Shoe attract edgy right wingers to open them up to listen to people like Vaush, people like Vaush push them into the actual left.
Sorry Vaush but it's not fair to lump Hunter in with Shoe. Hunter has made real progress and shoe hardly any. It's pretty disrespectful to Hunter to say if you think the one is a grifter than the other is. I am sorry but taking a job with a right wing organization (even if she quit it after backlash) says alot
I think a big difference between sh0e and hunter is that hunter needed to change his ideas/opinions and sh0e needs to change her mindset. Hunter’s issue was that he was a right winger, but sh0e isn’t right wing(on most things) she’s just a reactionary memer, if she can change that I feel like a lot of people on the left would have quite a bit of common ground with her
@@ontopic1626 I think you're giving the left way too much credit. They would absolutely still hate her and give 0 leeway regardless of what she does,, because the left (at least online) is anti-reformation.
oh Jesus Christ. Hunter is clearly a grifter who doesn't believe in anything. He got into the anti sjw stuff to make money and when that died he tried to shift to what the algorithm was pushing and then failed at it.
TL;DW: Shoe is a very controversial and confusing figure, but an ally we should have. Whenever she say something based, we should reward her with praise. That's what the right does when she says something right-wing. Do we want her to be right-wing again? No.
Most definitely. We should be doing our best to add to the flock and stop acting like moral puritans and acting like a drop of blood is enough to be outed. Like Destiny has a few shit takes and likes capitalism, but I still think he's an okay guy. He definitely talks to his audience and tells them to stop acting like neckbeards whenever he reviews sexual harassments cancelations and I think that's good.
@@ImaginaryMdA criticism is already happening and will continue to happen, no one said otherwise. OP's point is the other side of the equation is largely nonexistent.
@@malum9478 she’s not a Nazi dude. Unless you mean Lauren, in which case that’s closer to what seems to be the case- the problem wasn’t their friendship, it was Shoe’s public amicability with Lauren that was the problem. I tend not to judge people’s interpersonal relationships by what ‘I would do’, I just judge their actions, and if you’re making the alt right seem more approachable that’s obviously a bad thing; purposeful or not.
This woman is 30 years old and you talk about her like she's your teenager, condescendingly correcting her behavior and trying to rescue her reputation. It's insane.
"Anti-intellectualism" is a huge problem among "populist" types to the point where I almost associate the two words: Avoiding reading past a headline, always commit logical fallacies in a disagreement, claims every source they don't like is fake news or just elitist/academic snobbery, can't say anything substantive past one or two talking points, give solutions that are not only not pragmatic but would actually hurt their cause (think FTV, Bernie-or-Bust), and definitely conspiracy theory BS that occasionally pops up in their rhetoric.
Interestingly, it was kraut's main criticism when he was drunk.... he later clarified it in destiny's chat, btw not walkback, but unfortunately he kinda really really really really dropped the ball on the pr.
In my country, much more than in the US, populism is considered a dirty word for that exact reason. It's considered anti-intellectual and opportunist, and no political organisation would ever call themselves populist, even if they clearly are.
It's a simple fact that the government has evolved into a machine run by evil people that do not have the interest of their constituents in mind at all. The dems agenda is legitimately evil and Republicans are just the controlled opposition.
The Hunter Avalon part is so true. I’ve been subbed to him for a while now, and I enjoyed how he ripped Mike From PA apart. It’s very true the left does not embrace those who have reformed from the right.. while the right embraces all, and treats them like they’re part of something. That’s why it’s easy to grift to the right, and very difficult to do so on the left, as well.
That's because Hunter has the ability and patience to listen, think and hold a solid position and he does show accountability. Shoe on the other hand has very little ability to be held accountable, even when she tries, she severely downplays it or makes uwu I'm cute pls forgive me daddy eyes. Hunter really is someone who is committed to a set of principles and was always sincere in his beliefs even when he was a conservative. Shoe is more informed by the current peer group she is in and the memes she comes across. She's literally the manifestation of "I won't let a swastika tattoo and a stupid flag come in the way of my friendship. Keep your politics out of my friendship".
Sh0e seems to have found a loophole in it by getting other people, like Vaush with a big influence to try and defend her for when she does step into right wing circles off youtube. She also has most of their shared following just think shes dumb or 'and ''uwu naive guys'' even though she spent years around with and within plenty of adjacent circles. Not leftist ones other than Vaush himself. If you look at some of the policies this group is supporting, it lines up pretty consistent in her "right wing lib" views.
18:31-18:50 But Hunter Avallone isn't continuously getting into trouble by simply by sharing his opinions on twitter as much as shoe does though. Hunter makes sure to leave no question to make it clear as to what he believes. _Everyone_ Ian included, is still completely unsure as to all of what positions Shoe even holds.
Okay I mean I get why Vaush wants to distance himself from Destiny and all, but then he's gonna still run defense for Shoe by rationalizing her yikesy behavior? Consequentially speaking, they both pull from the far right. They also tend to shit on lefties. I feel there's something I'm not seeing here. Can someone explain this to me?
Vaush believes that by being nice to shoe he can move her towards better positions, while the same surely isn't the case with destiny. So there IS a difference, but I still vehemently disagree with Vaush's downplaying of shoe's ignorance and lack of integrity.
Jesus Christ people saying he is into her are so fucking creepy. Vaush has been super charitable to Destiny, like insanely so, to the point everyone who isn't a Destiny simp used to make fun of Vaush for being TOO charitable, too much of a "fan" of him. But Destiny burned those bridges and outright attacked him multiple times. So, Vaush now burned the bridge as well. Meanwhile Shoe has always seemed to be kind to him and is friends with him so of course he will have a bias in favor of her. It's not that deep.
I don't know if he thinks hes convincing his audience of what he and Sh0e want us to think she is, but at this point its just making him either sound hypocritical or just delusional for Sh0e. I feel like he really thinks he's doing PR for her so she wouldn't get canceled or something. He pretty much does this whenever shes compared to other people similar to her but just seems unable to not give some sort of defense. It honestly doesn't make him look good when hes not convincing people the way he thinks he is.
@@nessie7306 I think he's just very biased because of i, and Sh0e isnt as dumb as she pretends to be in these controversies. She's friendly with people she wants to get close to so they will defend her. He just seems to give her a pass, even when shes wrong. Like in Big Joel's video, and hes a leftist as well so he had no argument.
For fuck's sake. "Naive" would be not knowing those assholes were right wing monsters. That would require her to be 12 or raised in a cave. STOP MAKING EXCUSES. For the love of all that is decent in this world, will you people PLEASE let that hateful troll go!
I can appreciate Shoe changes her opinion when presented new information, and from what I've seen of her, she tries to listen to other people. I don't agree with everything with her, and it's a little hard to figure out what she believes because it changes. But I don't think the left should burn anyone who comes to the left. Most of the world is conservative, any lefties are good. Yeah, I would rather people be far left, but I rather deal with anyone being left of center rather than anyone right of center. Also, most people need to learn how to be empathetic.
All true, but empathy should be omnidirectional. A lot of people have been hurt because of Sh0e. There's a peppering of people in the comments talking about it. Hell, she started me down the pipeline.
@@anthonynorman7545 and she allowed me to be okay with stuff I shouldn't have been okay with. this is a conversation worth talking about. at the same time, she's obviously not a bad person. it's weird the age we're living in; we're just kind of subject to the moods of people who are in no way qualified. hellworld, indeed
@@peachy_lili I never said she was bad. I just didn't want to erase or invalidate the more reasonable distrust of Sh0e (who REALLY isn't doing herself any favors with her Twitter). If this world is hell, I don't want to know what my imagination could make it lol that's kinda been most of humanity now that I think about it.
Considering that she consistently willfully misrepresents anyone who disagrees with her, and blocks anyone who provides even the slightest criticism, I don't think she's as capable of learning as you're making her out to be lol
Shoe is basically Vaush's ex wife, In the sense that he cares, but he also isnt close enough to her to give her too much advice, but people still associate them closely with one another, all the while there's a divide between them where you can see what made them divorce.
@@sketchysketches381 No his relationship with Destiny is a bit more... extreme, like an estranged cousin that he only see's at family gatherings, but who also used to cheat at all the videogames when they were younger. Like they're close but they dont want to be close.
@@ChristopherStrider or... Is it because of the fact that their relationship being one of closeness but not being one of being on the same wave length like that of an ex spouse. This is why I call destiny his estranged cousin, because although they are on similar wavelengths, they can't fucking stand each other. And Hunter world be his adoptive son
You seem to be less in the role of being Shoe's Father Figure and more in the role of a PR Manager that has to keep doing damage control for their diva client that keeps getting into trouble because they're an idiot with no impulse control that just can't help themselves. I'm sure it's exhausting.
People forget Shoe was debunking Hunter’s transphobia on Twitter and TH-cam in *2016*. One obviously had more changing to do than the other. Shoe just moved slightly more left.
In 2016 that troll doll was calling a black woman a gorilla and created such a gang attack that an award winning actress and comedienne CLOSED HER ACCOUNT. For fuck's sake, that troll is FAKE!!! She was a troll in 2016 and she still is. SHe was hateful. She attacked women,. ALL women, and ALL feminists. That's not ok. Just because she's cute and pretends she doesn't get it when people tell her she's being a horrible excuse for a person, doesn't mean she hasn't ALWAYS been a horrible excuse for a person. Attacking women while pretending you're a trans ally is disgusting manipulation. Stop falling for it. There are WAY better people to stand up for.
“She didn’t investigate them, she didn’t think about it” either she’s ridiculously stupid or lying and knew what she was doing, people need to stop hand holding
Or maybe she not only has ADHD, but also still thinks she's just some girl on the internet who doesn't have to take anything seriously she she just does whatever. Which isn't the same as being stupid, but it leads to the same results.
it's funny to me how people treat Vaush like he's Shoe's dad, when she is like almost 10 years older than him. edit: ok, turns out the difference is just 3 years, but still
@@dominiks5068 cause I know people where criticizing Shoe's trolling with "lady, you're in your 30s" a while ago and I remember Vaush talking about how he was 25 at some point. So I kinda felt like the age gap was like: 25 to 32.
It was Shoe who shared your stuff and eventually pulled me left so not to be parasocial but this is like watching my e-mom and dad get a divorce. I think what Shoe does usually works for her but you’re right that she needs to take serious things more seriously and be careful about who she platforms. Btw it was not Shoe who called Leslie a gorilla it was Milo and Shoe defended him. That’s still really bad but the way you worded it made it sound like she directly called her that.
Correct, and as I recall it was an irl friend that told her how incredibly racist that was. The friend might have been a black girl, which emphasises it that much more.
I am pretty sure I saw a video of her saying she was a gorilla? Maybe it was part of defending Milo but she basically agreed with him on it at the least, right?
If I remember correctly, Milo called Leslie a gorilla and shoe basically said, "Its not racist because she does kinda look like a gorilla" which is barely one step removed from directly calling Leslie Jones a gorilla. So, its a "yes and no" situation. No, she wasn't the one that said it directly apropos of nothing, but yes, she might as well have said it.
@@galaxychar basically yeah. And then she had a talk with her irl friend. Was pretty embarrassed and deleted that video. As far as I recall. At least thats how she told the story to Vaush. I never saw the video so I cant claim anymore than that
I do like June. I appreciate her perspective and sense of humour, and her videos are pretty funny and well produced. But with that in mind, she's in essence an entertainer first and foremost; hardly someone I'd consult for an intellectual deep dive into the intricate facets of a particular issue. I see her as someone who's trying to point out the left's ridiculousness not so that people will move to the right, but so that the left can recognize it in themselves and correct for it. I'd say she has a predominantly layman aesthetic: just an average person with average views based on an average amount of thought put into them. So really, the question is more of whether or not that's still kosher when you come to have the size of an audience she does. I guess what it boils down to is that the bigger your platform, the more responsibility you bear. So while there's nothing inherently wrong with her views or approach, she's at best fairly cavalier about that responsibility, if she even acknowledges it at all. In her defence, it's easy for me to see how even an _extremely_ influential TH-camr could still view themselves as merely "just a TH-camr" and therefore just as insignificant as any private citizen. I can fully imagine how a TH-camr could understand their own influence, yet still _feel_ as though it weren't real. It's gotta be a tough sell for some people to think they wield that kind of power when they see themselves as just an average nobody goofing around making silly videos in their bedroom. The nature of the internet as a platform seems to lend itself to allowing people the illusion that even as their popularity grows, the effects of their words and actions somehow doesn't grow with it. The criticism she receives on this front is fair, though I'm more inclined to sympathize with her all the same.
Thats true.. She also started youtube at a time when the word youtuber just meant anyone who uploaded videos to youtube before people started gaining these massive followings. I can see how she still sees it as just sharing her opinions and memeing and doesn't see any need to take action or advocate for anything really. I mean we can't force people to act the way we want them to even if we think it will benefit the left or whatever, I really do think she just likes being goofy and "calling people out" on things over Twitter because its fun and even when she did make political videos it was just on topics she wanted to talk about I really don't think she considers herself to be responsible for persuading her audience of anything. Idk
I think of Gus and Eddy when you talk about mostly-neutral-occasionally-left comedians. But maybe they're further left than I think and this is my leftist bias talking. Gus and Eddy are great btw
@@hypechris8879 Abelina Sabrina (Gus' girlfriend) is extremely active in the political sphere and I'd classify her as very much left-wing. She's the one who gave us the expose about the cheesy ridiculousness of the DNC swag bags! ♥
I think they're probably Socdem or Socdem-adjacent. Don't think either of the boys are Third World Maoists or Anarcho-Syndicalists or anything but they unapologetically support progressive causes which is good enough for comedians for me.
She has always been a reactionary. Her "I can still be friends with those I disagree with" mindset when it comes to even far right-wingers has always been concerning. Ultimately Shoe still treats politics like it's some sports teams stuff, like after the game we all have a pint at the pub regardless of the team we cheered for and we get along. No.
At some point you have to decide what your goal is with socio-political interactions. Do you want an all-out war with your political opponents? Or do you want to change minds? If it's the former then sure, cut them off and lock-n-load I guess. If it's the latter, then being friendly and affable in the face of dissenting opinions is far more effective. Very rarely is anyone's mind changed when they espouse a viewpoint and are immediately 'owned' and embarrassed. People change their opinions as a result of prolonged exposure to better opinions. You'll never get the opportunity to expose people to your views over an extended period of time if you alienate them the moment they open their mouth.
@@crowleyswhitehorse it's for exactly this reason I hate when debates devolve into bloodsports. Nothing is accomplished and it's just pure entertainment at that point. That's why I like a majority of Vaush's talks because he's rarely talking to the person, he's talking to the audience trying to change minds.
You do realize that if you hang around with Socialists all day, you aren't going to be spreading your ideas. You are just preaching to the choir. At least Shoe is willing to discuss things with other people outside of her bubble.
@@sharkythegw7843 Backwardsly, they did it backwardsly from their own bias and pre-supposing atley was being an asshole. Even though she has a pfp and this beta just got a 'g' for a icon. Oh and it has been said already but I am sorry that happened. I also think that even in her 'old videos' she hasn't changed much. It would be better in some ways if we stopped giving Shoe free passes because she is cute because it is doing real damage at this point. At least that last part is entirely my own take, I do not like reactionary populists generally.
But she... stopped doing that and came out in support of trans people after? Like, making that some kind of "black mark" thing against her would fundamentally, by definition, be a pretty conservative position to take.
She does seem just, so desperate to look witty and funny. She's no better than a wokescold that wants to look virtuos over everything. Over practicality, over nuance, over just being correct. They both just really care what other people think of them
@@revlarmilion9574 I mean, it really doesn't matter to me how moral or clever i look in a youtube comment section, but,, it's ok to want to be correct. All nuanced, good faith criticism is still just an attempt to be correct. If you think that's bad then you could say all criticism ever is bad, including your comment. All i'm saying is that both shoe and wolkscolds prioritise optically winning over being correct. Which you personally think is worse is subjective.
At least wokescolds are honest, shoe looks like she’s trying to basically hold back her more left wing views to appease her conservative fans and want to seem edgy and cool so her edgelord stans will stay
So to resume: -Vaush promises she isn't a grifter -Vaush pretty clearly indicates she's a grifter with the Afghanistan example -Vaush just feels like it's not a grift though because "that's how her brain works" If it looks like a grifter, swims like a grifter, and quacks like a grifter... I dunno, man, might be, you know...
With regards to June, I distinctly remember the both of you doing a 4th of July stream. You both were drinking, causing the verbal guards to sleep on the watch. She let out some pretty terrible opinions about immigrants. She let out some awful takes about what a "national border" is and why they're "so important". In addition, she's a populist. I despise populism because near any populist leader has turned out to be a fraud.
@@x999uuu1 in certain respects, Vaush can be called a populist. However, I would also consider his approach more grounded than the standard "burn it all down" approach. I find the average populist short-sighted in that they don't seem to have a plan beyond "burn it all down". Vaush has clearly stated several times that there's a Marxist based groundwork for a more stable system. I'm skeptical of worker co-ops but I think it merits study
@@x999uuu1 he says in this video that he’s not quite a populist, he just sees it as an occasionally useful method to deliver his ideas - But if you use it too much, populist anti-elitism can turn into anti-intellectualism, so he doesn’t think it’s good to rely on the populist style of messaging a lot
There's so many great points here. Especially the one about Shoe seeing herself mostly as some kind of a comedian. Her interest in politics seems to boil down to how you can joke about it and memefy it. She rarely talks seriously about anything. But this also makes me think about why does it seem like the right is celebrating people who become right wingers, more than the left seems to celebrate people who become left wingers. One reason might be cause for example Hunter Avallone isn't exactly left leaning. He's more like a liberal now i guess. Do right wingers celebrate when a left leaning person becomes a liberal? I don't know.
Hunter did became a liberal with soc dem tendencies, but when you genuinly move positions, is aways slowly, and he is not the only exemple, theee is also the girl that addmited she was a nazi years ago and people were malding instead of getting interested on what deradicalized her or to what extent, the overall online left have a problem with people that were on the right at some point of theie lives, sigh, I recently saw a supposed lefty accusing Contrapoints of being reactionary because of thing she made when she was 15, this was literally half her age
@@italucenaz The thing is that being a liberal is pretty much the default position of a western human being. When I meet a new person, I assume he/she is a liberal. If he's a true lefty or a conservative, that's more surprising. So I guess neither side is celebrating when a person becomes a default human being so to speak. People are more excited when someone becomes an actual lefty or a conservative. I think people were positive towards Hunter Avallone when he become a liberal, but I guess they could have been even more excited. I've been watching a little bit of his content since then, but as a lefty I'm just more interested of actual left wing content. There's just not enough time to watch everyone's videos. But it's true that some leftists and liberals are WAY too judging. There are people who seem to compete about who is morally superior and they seem to get weird satisfaction out of criticizing other peoples mistakes. This shouldn't be a competition. We're all humans and we all make mistakes. Especially old mistakes shouldn't matter if a person has become better. But these people don't really care how old the mistakes are I guess. Cause they get so much satisfaction out of criticizing others, that any excuse to behave morally superior is a good enough excuse for them. It's usually the so called woke SJW people who behave this way.
because if she's trated like a naive teen, it's easier to dismiss her as a naive teen and not take her seriously. the "left" and the "right" do this quite a lot.
Nobody gets a pass because of their age, but regardless of age, treating people like shit (even if they've definitely done something really REALLY shitty) isn't anywhere near as likely to make them change their behavior as a thorough, respectful, and - if necessary - stern critique of their behavior
She wasn't against Feminism. She called out bad actors within the Feminist community. She was against "pop Feminism" which is very different from real Feminism.
@@ImbriumDream She called out extremists within the left, but that is not the same thing as being right wing. You can be left wing while still criticizing those make the left look bad.
I'm about halfway through the vid but I'm just gonna put forth my answer to the shoe question. I think she likes the attention of being a public figure but doesn't care about the responsibility it garners. Like honestly i think shoe should just disappear from the internet, I think she'd be happier for it, she would be as insignificant as anyone else so she could meme and hang out with righties and edgy leftists as much as she wants with no larger effects on online politics. I am a fan of some of shoe's TH-cam content (which she doesn't exactly keep up with) but I think she'd really be happier if she had her online anonymity back.
All these people have is their internet personalities. They literally can't do anything else. She's like 30 and the only "work" experience is making videos on youtube.
@@greywolf7577 idk she averages less than a video a month, though each video does get plenty of views, so it's hard to say. I feel like she's gotta have some other source of income but I don't really have any evidence for that
"Stupid" doesn't always mean "of low intelligence;" it can also mean "prone to making mistakes" or "prone to making poor decisions," the latter of which definitely could apply to Shoe
I can’t reconcile Vaush’s hatred of Kyle Kulinski with his love of shoe on head. they’re the same person politically, but Kyle Kulinski’s actually done stuff for the left so he’s vastly better.
Kyle also hasn't said sussy Nazbol shit, unless you count him being genuinely confused by some identity issues (that he usually comes around on whenever he actually talks to someone).
Started this video to listen to while getting ready to play guilty gear bow I'm at the end of the video and I still haven't connected to the server smh
The Lauren Southern thing by far is Sh0es biggest black eye. Racism isn't an issue where you just go "We're still best friends despite that". This isn't something like having a disagreement on tax laws. If Sh0e during that time was trying to de-convert Southern, okay. But I have a bridge to sell to anyone who actually thinks that's what Sh0e was doing.
Yeah, I do agree with that, but she has gone back and said she regrets that. I don't know if we can hold that against her after what, 4 or 5 years? I think that Vaush does have a point that if the left never even makes an attempt to talk with her, then we've ceded shoe's political engagement to the right. I don't think shoe is a right winger, even if she still has some reactionary tendencies or views. I mean, even after Hunter's convo with Vaush, he was still posting anti-abortion and anti-feminism videos, even after he made his "why I left the right" video. I think Vaush hit the nail on the head when he said shoe is so irony poisoned that she's hardwired her own brain to view every engagement as a chance to shitpost, which is a legitimate flaw of her's, just to be clear. I'm not saying that to absolve her. I hope this video actually does kickstart something in her to get her to change her behavior. I'd like to see more from her, like Hunter, but Hunter's gotten more good talks with people on the left, like Vaush, Xan, and, yes, Destiny too. If more people are willing to reach out to her and give her good criticism, like Vaush and Big Joel, maybe we'll see something good come out of it.
@@beancheesedip8337 Sure. I think the issue people have is the fact that the racism was pretty blatant. So it was already a pretty bad look that Sh0e was letting it slide. Also it's not like the warnings came from people every now and then just in passing. People were strongly warning Sh0e about Lauren for a good year or two, and they presented clear as day examples of Laurens racism. And yet Sh0e not only brushed it aside, she'd usually mock anyone bringing the issue to her. I mean she made it pretty clear that she had no issue with Lauren being a racist. And like I said, I sincerely doubt that Sh0e was trying to de-convert Lauren. I do think Sh0e has bettered herself over the years, but she at times still gets far too boggled down in reactionary BS, and it causes people who were skeptical of her change to revert back into be skeptics, and it causes people who remained skeptical of her to hold their position. Nobody should expect her to be perfect, but she at times does herself no favors when it comes to her critics. She often gives them ammunition.
@@KMC5240 I absolutely agree. Shoe is giving them ammo, and her continued friendship, a very public one at that, with a neo-nazi was indefensible. I just don't know if using that is a justification still. I think its obvious that Shoe is left leaning, even if she loves to play that "both sides, let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya," bullshit. I think her willingness to play ball with anyone who calls themselves a populist is harmful, but I hope that these continued, good faith criticisms can help push her in a constructive way. She does seem to take criticism well from people she trusts, like Vaush and Big Joel, so hopefully her behavior changes. I just think holding the Lauren Southern thing over her head isn't helping, you know? I understand that it can be used to spot a pattern of behavior, but I think she's done a decent job of pushing herself away from the alt-right, even if she still likes to hold hands with conservatives.
The nazbol vortex is real. The constant Brown Shoe apologia is useless, she'll never change. Her most recent Lib-hunter act changed nothing, she's still the same. Economically left, ideologically hard right.
@@billieeisenhower406 Don't think I'm saying this to 'own'. It's more out of 'innoculation' against more hostile situations with rtwingers: The OPTICAL fail when a plenary meeting devolves into 5 minutes of correcting each other's pronouns. *This was of course, during the early days of 'figuring things out'. But it still exists.*
I think her politics are indeed cohesive in that she takes parts from the left and right to fit a pretty clear wordview. When we think of someone who supports the traditional family we expect them to be conservative economically, but she views social welfare and free healthcare etc as bolstering the ability for women to stay at home, for example. She thinks gender roles are pretty much true due to her personal preferences, and so criticizes feminists, but also thinks women and lgbt people should have the liberty to do what they want as she loves american freedom. She loves the poor and hates the elites etc, and so she dislikes immigration as she thinks that gets in the way of the working class and how pro-america she is. It honestly does make sense to me, but it is clearly a wordview created from memes and being terminally online, and not an outlook that someone comes to organically. It’s whatever feels right to her, and she doesn’t take it seriously so when people agree with some of her positions but are also racist etc she doesn’t think it’s a big deal as *she* isn’t racist, so whatever, right? I don’t think she’s a nazbol or alt right etc, I think because she sees herself in essentially everyone she is blind to the harm they cause. I don’t think I know what there is to do about this as the only way you are going to move her over on her right wing type positions is if you make them fit into her overall worldview. And it does come down to - what do want to do on the left when it comes to people who hold harmful beliefs? Do we try and be open and change minds, or reject people who have an offensive position to not want to normalize it? It’s complicated, it really is. I don’t think any immigrants for example have to like her and would find it hard to explain to them that Shoe isn’t doing harm on that cause. But do we just send everyone away with any interest in leftism?
I disagree that it isn't an outlook people come to organically, because an awful lot of people around the world seem to arrive at that formula. It's basically what populism tends to turn into.
@@goodluckgorsky3413 Its worth emphasizing that she supports gender roles for herself. Politically, and for others, she seems to support a "Do what you want" sort of attitude.
Always thought it was hypocritical for her to rage about how cringe other people are when her entire gimmick is mimicking Boxxy and attention seeking 4chan teenagers lmao. Big try hard RAWR XD energy
ive always found the boxxy thing a weird criticism because it has nothing to do with anything and shes shown old pictures of her having the same aesthetic so she just has a style another ytuber had
@@hibarikyoya854 I mean she's literally called ShoeOnHead lmao. Even if it is just the vibe she has, it's still from the same place which produced Boxxy. Not saying she's copying her, just that they're of the same ilk. And that's embarrassing for a 30 year old tbh, big cringe.
@@mysteryperson706 I really don't know anything about the shoe on head meme. What does it have to do with Boxxy? I know that Shoe made a video pretending to be Boxxy but that was many years ago. It really doesn't have any connection to what she does now.
@@greywolf7577 Trolls used to tell people on ventrilo and camsites to do random shit as a joke. Making them put a show on their head by spamming it as a request is the most well known. It's associated with /b/, but it's really just something from back when the internet was more wild westy. It's not a surprise that purity testing is done by people who are dumb enough to think there's some guilt-by-association there
@@claymusicoff5663 What are you talking about? I sympathize with her because sometimes I make mistakes too. Just like her. Even Vaush makes mistakes, but he has so much knowledge that he seems almost superhuman sometimes. I don't really understand the hate towards Shoeonhead. Most of her content is clearly leftwing. There was a time when I didn't know any left leaning youtubers, except for her. Shoeonehead was the only TH-camr who worked as an example that you can be left leaning without being a crazy SJW type of a person. Who knows how deep into the right wing rabbit hole I would have gone without her. So I respect her and I'm 100% sure that she's doing more good than bad with her content. She brings way more people from the right to the left than the other way around. When I say that I sympathize with Shoeonehead, I mean that I would like to be more like Vaush but in reality I'm more like Shoe. I have both right leaning friends and left leaning friends. I try to understand everyone's point of view. And I'm not a so called perfect leftist. I have used the wrong pronoun of people by accident etc... Making mistakes is human. This is what I mean when I say that I sympathize with her. No idea why you bring gender into the discussion. If you think that I would be hating on her if he was male, you could not be more wrong. I'm not a very hateful person in general and I just don't see any reason to hate a person, who makes mostly good content. I don't agree with everything Vaush says either.
@@ChristopherStrider Yet it does. The idea that she wouldn't be criticized a lot harder if she wasn't a conventionally attractive woman is hilariously wrong. If she looked like a "stereotypical" leftie, she'd get absolute destroyed by the right. If she was a man, she would get criticized a lot harder by the left. There's a lot of prettiness privilege that comes with being a conventionally attractive cis woman.
Shoe is one of the few USians who talks about politics that isn't completely insufferable. There's like tankies, wokescolds, lunatic ayn rand sociopaths, alt right cringe, and there's this tiny sliver between tankies and wokescolds where reasonable people like Shoe are. It's common to see tolerable reasonable Aussies, Canadians, Brits etc but political USians are almost all insufferable, Shoe is a rare exception.
@@unslaadkrosis3489 ok I'm genuinely very interested in what your going to cite to support that. I would say the Jenner candidacy for Governor of CA but your probably going to say something different.
Sh0e is a pickme reactionary moderate. She just wants the most attention she can get from whatever group/person gives it to her and is only momentarily stopped by a semblance of a conscious and/or backlash that she may get. I can appreciate that she's still figuring out her views and that she's changing but she's still done more harm than good at this point in time. I think she lacks empathy for the fact she lead so many people down the alt-right pipeline and only cares about possibly being friends with as many people as she can be at this point and that's going to be a lot of right wing people for now. Lefties have not forgiven her for her past views especially when she keeps saying dumb shit and reacting poorly after being called out on it.
"Lefties have not forgiven her" because the online left is actively processing its own internalized conservative mindsets by engaging in purity testing and gatekeeping. So if you really think about it, they're literally doing the exact thing you're criticizing Shoe for: Flailing around doing a lot of harm by inadvertently stumbling into actions that manifest or benefit right wing beliefs. The difference is that Shoe seems to actually want to change, instead of making excuses for why moral essentialism is somehow compatible with leftism (it isn't). I dunno, that's a half step above wokescolds (conservatives with baguettes to hit people with) and tankies (red fash).
Shoe has made many criticisms of people who deserved criticism back in the day. That criticism may have spilled onto broader marginalized groups, but we need to admit that there are RedRems that are not good people, who believe harmful things and unironically hate men. Just like Terfs are a problem. And shoe has called out a lot of those kinds of people, and made "bluehair" jokes. *I* watched shoe early on. And it didn't pull me to the right at all.
Shoe is the person who moved me left and introduced me to your channel in 2019. Her joining that group was a fuck up absolutely but some of your criticism misses the mark and comes across as a wee bit pretentious. It’s a good thing that Shoe plays the moderate. We need that. It may be annoying to a lot of leftists but for chuds and centrists (like me before 2019) she’s a good entry point. If she becomes an ideologue like every other leftist on BreadTube she loses what makes her Shoe and loses that “entry level” pipeline thing. I think she knows this and for that reason she is smarter than you and a lot of people in your community give her credit for. It may sound bad but This was kind of upsetting as a long term fan of both of you.
And you explain her repeated gaffs as her genius? He's not saying she needs to get on his leftist level. He's saying she needs to think beyond the lolz and feels a bit more.
Exactly my thoughts. Her closeness with right wing “populists” is a good thing as long as she continues pushing them and their audiences left. That’s why I think she also ran with the Tucker meme.
Lmao did you watch the video? Vaush doesnt want her to be a leftist, just to think about the idiotic right wing stanning she does. Im glad she brought you to the left but you are giving her way more credit than she deserves.
Yea Shoe is who introduced me to Vaush as well and I partially agree with you and him. He’s right that she needs to be more responsible but he’s also asking her to change her personality for PR sake and that would just make her fake imo. I like Shoe because she’s a dumbf*ck and flawed.
Pretty fair from Vaush, but: 1) Destiny DEBATING Lauren Southern is not the same as Shoe being besties with her and joining right wing groups. 2) Hunter and Shoe are not equivalent. Hunter has done so much to distance himself from his past content and apologize for it. 3) Shoe is not stupid, this is deliberate and happens too often. This is not an excuse we would accept if anyone else did it.
Shoe is Alt-right at heart. No matter how left she goes she’ll fall back on alt-right tendencies when pressure is put on or as an initial response. Let me explain from my perspective. I was raised a liberal and always had slightly conservative leaning tendencies. I joined the Marines and got some far right tendencies. Now I’m a leftist but when I get mad I always fall back on a reactionary response because at my core that’s how I respond to adversity. Whether I believe in it or not that’s my initial reaction.
I do not believe these tendencies of yours (or Shoe's for that matter) are inherent and will always stay with you, but it does take time and effort for them to dissipate. You cultivated these ideas and tendencies for so long that they became ingrained in your thought patterns. It's like smoking: when you stop, it's hard to adjust for only a short while, but a lingering sense of craving might stay with you for years and flair up when you're experiencing stress. However, it's possible to lose all cravings eventually (iirc my mom said it took her a short decade, but she has no desire whatsoever to touch a cigarette).
That's not being "alt-right" at heart. That's just realizing that the online left and the US democratic party are complete idiots with self-contradicting beliefs. I can't count how many times I've seen leftists claim they want to abolish the police, and then claim that men should be arrested just for complimenting women the "wrong way", and I get accused of being a "right wing misogynist incel" for pointing that contradiction out.
The problem with Shoe is she's stuck in the 2014-2016 ANTI-SJW "Owns da Libs!" Teen mind set. On top of that shoe still have some reactionary tendencies mixed in with her left leaning ideas. Let's be real she does like populism and probably still has maybe some racist tendencies or at the very least mistrust towards Middle Eastern migrants. It's an uncomfortable thing to think about but it just makes sense. Yeah Shoe wants universal health Care and a little bit more workplace democracy but she still has some right wing ideas mixed in there too.
Populism is actually just the opposite of elitism. It only becomes racist when right wingers do fake populism and blame economic problems on a minority facist style. Populism originally mainly referred to socialist types
Being anti-SJW is not the same thing as being right wing. You can be a moderate left winger and still not support the extremes on the left. Why do so many people today assume that you can only be a far rightist or a far leftist?
I discovered Shoe literally one month ago, after having seen the Joel video. I watched a couple of videos of hers, followed her on Twitter, but soon realised that she makes very infantile content. From the poor quality of her camera, to her sense of humour, I see her as the last bastion of that youtube skepticism which was founded on attacking intuitively bad political takes. When I think about that type of media creators, I see entertainers who were not more engaged with politics than the average man, and that's why the average man related to their basic and uninformed opinions. I see as perfectly fit for Shoe to be so passionately populist: she wants to relate to that kind of audience, which is fundamentally anti-intellectualist. I don't value her opinion more than I would value the opinion of a random girl I meet on the street, that's why I don't either get mad nor applaud her when she leans from one side to the other.
She's the embodiment of what's wrong with internet discussions in general. It's just a never ending parade of mind-numbing memes with her, all cloaked in an anti-intellectual cape masquerading as quality content. As a person? I'm sure June is a very nice human being. As a content creator? Oh no, get rid of her
I’m one of the many people who found you through Shoe long ago (during the Sargon drama) and I’m 50/50 about this. On one hand you are right about her behavior on Twitter being toxic but on the other hand... she’s funny. There’s a reason why the right says “the left can’t meme”. Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously. Shoe makes politics fun for newbies and otherwise apolitical people like me in 2016. Btw you sound like an angry dad scolding her but she’s probably into that lol.
"The left can't meme" is such an odd take since that is clearly a political meme to move you to accept their points, therefore you being memed is their actual meme
That’s the downside of being right about pretty much everything isn’t it. You feel obliged to win people over with actual reasoning rather than memes. And then there’s the downside of actually caring about improving lives. It makes you take this politics game seriously, compared to the right who mostly just want to own the libs. So yes, fighting for what’s right is a burden, maybe too much of a burden for Shoe and her followers. You’ll notice of course that leftists are way better at comedy than the right. That’s been seen over centuries, and will continue for centuries still. But when it comes to memes, they will always be the realm of right-wingers. Right-wing ideas appeal to the primitive part of our brain, and are consequently far more easily expressed in 5 words and a funny picture. We can’t change that.
@@Cream147player kinda reminds me back in 2016 where almost everyone "joked" about voting for Trump cause he had better memes about him than Hillary Clinton. Weird.
@@AT-vp8qw this is kind of irrelevant to the wider discussion but did you notice that many of those same people who were talking about voting Trump for the memes in 2016 were saying in 2020 “We must vote Trump in against radical communist Joe Biden to prevent the destruction of our country.”
Maybe Left-Leaning groups would hang out with June more if she didn't have this constant "I don't wanna be called a Liberal, so I must constantly shit on them" attitude
@@sillybilly4710 Could be the reverse. Anger at being accused could either show contempt for that accusation, or could show reluctance to accept the truth. She gets upset whenever political quizzes rank her as a SocDem
I really like Shoe BUT GOD DAMN I wish she would do more to distance herself from right wingers Holy shit if she did that I would actually be more comfortable being a fan of hers, it's the only aspect of her online presence I don't like.
I feel like she needs to distance herself from right wingers because they know how big her platform is better than her by using anti-establishment populism to lure her in, and because their ideas on how society should be run are harmful and is a gateway to the broader conservative movement, hence why that group she joined has connections to Republicans who are anti-science and anti-democracy.
from a young age my mom taught me that all genders are equal the lgbtq2+ community is fighting for good and stuff like that. I found shoe when * was like 10-11 and I agreed with a lot of what she said, to a point I almost went alt-right, but everytime I thought abt my political standing I would feel gross like i was digusting. so i decided that I would start paying attention to what "the woke mob" was saying, and when i found out what they were saying was all aligned with my moms teaching i started asking her more questions and learning. anyways i just htought i shoud leave this comment here seeing as this is a big issue with young white guys going down the alt-right path. If you have any man woman or enby you love you should pay attention to what the lefts movement is. There are some crazy fucking ppl on th eleft but you can say that about the right aswell. All the left wants is rights for everyone including men. they want men to be able to have a safe space anywhere to share there feeling. feminism benefits everyone. pls just do some research of your own.
Yep hard agree, i used to have a centrist lib phase once where i wpukd fuck around with right wing ideas and people to look cool despite hating them, then i decided to go full left and never looked back
@@stephengarforth2753 I mean, youre the one with the positive claim my dude, dont you know how things work? Sure: heres a bunch of links to all the times she was not being a neo-nazi...oh wait thats not how proof works.
@@stephengarforth2753 I dont recall gamergate being a strictly neonazi thing. It was mainly anti-sjw reactionaries, incels, misogynists, etc, there were neo-nazis but that definitely wasnt the focal point of that movement. Itd be like saying all the capitol rioters were neonazis, while there were some there that really wasnt the main crux of that event, and to treat it as such is to ignore the variable complexity of that movement. Sounds a lot like you dont have anything to back up your claim and just dont like Shoe. Thats fine, just dont be dishonest.
@@stephengarforth2753 Wait so in your mind correctly describing the makeup and focus of those at the capitol riots...is defending them? They were garbage people but its good to understand the entire picture. Its like calling every 2016 trump voter racist. The world isnt black and white dude, lots of gray and nuance in reality. You cant just be reductive with these things. Is Thunderf00t a neonazi? Was TotalBiscuit a neonazi? Do you see a difference between Thunderf00t's current content and Sargon's? Or Shoe and Sargon's? Sargon is a white nationalist whinging about vaccines, white identity, and the great replacement bs. Meanwhile Thunderf00t has been doing in depth breakdowns on the pandemic and debunking covid denialists, antimaskers, etc. Does he still throw in some cringe anti-sjw bs? Yep. Still not a neonazi. If you cant tell the difference between content creators, idk what to tell ya, it sounds like youve lost the plot.
I just thought of a feminist idea that may actually hold water. Even leftists will simp-shame a man mercilessly, but a manic pickme dream girl like shoe is never shamed. Seems like a double standard.
I find the whole idea of the "pick me" insult to be sexist. It's usually used by women to insult other women who agree with a man on something. It comes from the sexist idea that women aren't allowed to think for themselves and must always follow the majority female opinion.
@@greywolf7577 good point, really, but in shoes case she offered herself to sargon and friends as female validation for their neo-masculinity rantings then became LGBT and vaushs bestie whining about sexual freedom.
My two cents, Shoe was my pipeline out of PragerU level American Libertarianism and into Soc Dem ideology, and I think she still serves that purpose for others. By being to surface level meme center leftist who reaches across the aisle, I think she provides a jumping nag off point for left skeptic peoples. She, non-ironically, does “fix them”
That sucks. I hope shoe can find a way to be edgy and shitposty, without engaging in irresponcible reactionary discourse. Also I hope that the left makes the effort to reach out and be nice for once...
Say what you will about shoe, she's very good at drawing people leftwards due to her style, and I find that very valuable as someone brought left initially by shoe
Someone in chat said it: She's so afraid of being labeled as a cringey liberal, like the ones she used to make fun of, that she overcompensates.
The most millennial thing possible: not wanting to be viewed as a cringy lib and overcompensating
@@nickziegler1904 it’s better then gen Z who be like “cringe doesn’t exist”
@@bobpope3656 does it though
@@bobpope3656 is it really better, tho?
@@bobpope3656 as a gen z. We know cringe exists. We just dont give a fuck about it
Shoe: Vaush it's time for more discourse
Tired Vaush: Yes shoe
@Racism Watch lol Racism
Time for your audience flattening
discourse or... intercourse? haha...
unless???
@Sneed he’s laughing at his name, his joke is literally hahaha your name is Tyrone
@@everythingisfine8635 no? He’s laughing and saying a name.. “hahaha Jerry” means one is laughing at the comment made by Jerry, for example
Hunter and shoe are like two former arsonists who were released from prison, but hunter became a fire fighter, started programs to help those who lose things in fires and rehab for fellow former arsonists, and shoe is still playing with matches next to houses and when small fires start to break out she makes uwu eyes and says sorry I didn’t mean it
Great comment
That’s why Shoe is great and Hunter is a boring pretentious liberal now.
@@theshocker929 ...ffs
For me, their projected exits from the far right are like an alcoholic’s recovery phrase. For Hunter, he’s 2 years sober and never touched alcohol. Shoe is like that alcoholic who had periods of sobriety because good friends helped her along the way. But, in this analogy, had relapsed into drinking because she got sucked into drinking by bad peers and as a result, had a hangover.
This the one. This the perfect analogy right here.
Horsesh0e Theory intensifies
Thank you for pointing out I'm awesome. Also based comment.
I see whatcha did there. Clever girl
@@SalinaBabba8343 Thank you comrade
@@nathanjasper512 *We* are awesome comrade
Based
"Attempting to not say that Shoe is just a dumbfuck for one hour!" [World record]
This is the most true comment.
Literally missed the whole point of the video
@@Ringojeremy I vaguely remember his explanations and think they all can be summed up as dumbfuckery or criminal negligence
But she's so cuuuuuuuuuuuute!
@@johnpjones182 ugh she is though.... Damn it
Vaush: what will you have in 500 years?
Shoe: alt right simps.. I'll have alt right simps
I can imagine Sargon is right now just staring at his ceiling wondering when Shoe will come back to his community
@@Sprite_525 He's not that complex. He's thinks he need to save shoe from Vaush. It's pathetic.
We already had alt right simps at least til he suggested they get the vaccine
You have a joker pfp so your opinion is irrelevant
@@leagueofdead569 joker is a left wing icon as much as he is a right wing icon
This video summarized:
Shoe basically acts as a comedian instead of a commentator, with mostly good beliefs but mostly bad public PR skills as she doesn't think before she posts and defends herself in an anti-intellectual manner
So, Rule 63 Shaun?
@@---rm8do Except Shaun does think himself as a commentator first. It's not quite analogous, but yes, both do dumb on twitter. Don't think Shaun's done anything on the scale of associating with a rightwing advocacy group, though.
@@---rm8do that's- on what level is the "literally dry skull guy" more of a comedian than a commentator, first off
She IS a comedian instead of a commentator.
@@iblamegravity1 So all those political videos she's made since her start on TH-cam to now isn't at all political commentary? Or how she is on twitter? She just happens to be a comedian that uses politics a looooooooooooot and for pretty much all of her material.
Recently, I've just become burned out on Shoe. Her persona worked for me at one point but it's just annoying for me at this point. I don't think she's the worst thing ever but her reactionary "I absolutely have to own the libs no matter what" tendencies have just gotten old. I wish her nothing but success because I really don't think she's a far right shill or anything, but that's my worthless and not asked for two cents on everything.
I feel the exact same way about Kyle Kulinski.
She doesnt cut it for me anymore but i like her and her humor but yeah shitposting for the sake of it is meaning less
It's natural to grow in your views and personal alliances you make. It's what people do. For some people, they do quite the opposite, especially as they get older. It's okay to move on from watching these personalities.
Same I've stopped watching her even with people like hunter I still feel I need to seperate myself even though I respect them in certain aspects
Yeah, Kyle K and shoe got old to me with that "always have to own the libs even if it means endorsing conspiracy and alt right" I unsubbed from shoe.. might be soon with kyle.. I just feel like I've outgrown it
Missed a real opportunity not calling this the "Shoe-ish Question"
Damn you
International Shoe-ry
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@@gingermaniac5484 sorry I forgot to add a laughing face😭
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Missed title to call it "The Shoeish Question"
Damn it I'm not funny 5 people already made the joke
yeah i was about to before i saw this lol
@@diceroanoke7363 Dude I just made this joke too
I thought of it like 5 seconds before someone in chat said it. I wish I was in chat. I should've been the one who came up with it first. Alas, I don't watch the streams. I just watch the clips afterwards.
@@diceroanoke7363 I'm disgusted by the fact that the pun is such low hanging fruit, Ben Shabibo could reach it.
Yeah, I wanted her to quit that anti-feminist stuff a long time ago, but we all "wake up" at our own pace. She's still way too nice to right wing lunatics.
Her anti-feminist stuff was good and correct because feminism in practice is, by and large, fake egalitarianism. Being openly chummy with righties is indeed bad, but I haven't seen her do it since she started feeling the Bern. What gives you the sense that she's still doing that?
@@synchronium24 No, feminism is good. And a lot of anti-feminist shoe content back in the day was objectively false and misrepresentative.
@@synchronium24 I don't know what you mean by fake egalitarianism, a lot of feminism acknowledges that patriarchy hurts men as well, and includes men in the equation. It is of course feminism not masculinism, and not broad humanism, so don't expect it to focus on men's issues or race issues. Keep in mind, I used to think feminism was cringe and female supremacy at one point, until I actually learned that most feminism is not the SJW meme rational skeptics like to push.
@@synchronium24 lol
@@synchronium24 feminism is probably the most important activism coz it applies to ~ 50% of human population which in every country is not treated equaly or they live in literal hell. As a Polish person who saw in 2020 how theoreticaly 1st world democratic country can become incredibly misogynic in a brink of an eye I wont accept feminism being treated like something we dont need nowadays or need less
"Oh sorry I'm dumb" is like the thought-terminating-cliche of self improvement.
Joe Rhogan is the same. Also acknowledging you are dumb is basicly a cop out of being held responsible. Usually dumb people dont recognize they are dumb, and its also disengenious cause ofc they dont think they are dumb cause then they would stop engaging in the field they claim to be dumb about. If i say i am dumb on car stuff, you wont see me go and do fiddle around with the brakes, i will stay far away from that cause i know currently it wouldnt be a good idea for me to engage there.
"Self improvement" is just adapting to some groups of people so they would accept/like you. Of course, if no one of you is looking, I make black humour-jokes and behave like I want to. Who will drag me to court? And to what court?
Wake up. People wont be honest and will lie if they are threatened by stigmatisation.
when I call shoe a "grifter" I don't mean that she's a right winger appealing to a lefty audience. I mean precisely the opposite. she's a lefty who deliberately avoids talking about her socially left wing positions in order to keep her right wing audience on board
Yep, and i think that can be okay, but also not cuz they might be actual right wingers who are loyal to her, and wont shift left
Basically what you're saying is:
"I don't want to accept the fact that shoe is a right winger so I'm just going to say that she's a leftist who says right wing things in order to keep her right wing audience on board!!1!1!!!1!! "Let's also not question why she even has a right wing audience to begin with!11!1!1!!!11!!1!!1"
@@TheUnstableNutcase given the way she interacts with people on her youtube and pretty much anywhere but twitter, I think its pretty safe to say that she has fairly left wing economic positions and is socially liberal with "anti woke" tendencies. however, she absolutely hides the fact that she is accepting of trans and gay people to appeal to her right wing audience, considering she avoids the topic entirely on twitter. basically, shoe is stupid, yes, but she's also a grifter.
I genuinely don’t think so. I don’t think she actually has morals.
Honestly that doesn’t sound like a bad thing. It’s somewhat the reverse pipeline of what she was before.
Of course, using the same methods is er, problematic.
Vaush: Shoe got into drama
Vaushites: Ah shit, here we go again
Shoe isn’t a grifter, she’s just very shallow and not deeply intelligent and doesn’t think anything through ever, which is why her opinions and stances change constantly, and she can’t defend them. She’s just an empty vase.
From what I've seen her opinions haven't really changed at all. They've just clarified. She's not anti-feminist, she's anti-second-wave. She is not anti-woke, she's anti-wokescold/anti-authoritarian. Focusing her ire on the parts that are actually bad. Get it?
Yes they do change, based on who she is speaking to. Because she is shallow and is more concerned with being likeable than with being consistent. Vaush is right, the more the left shuns her the more bad right wing takes she’ll adopt, which is a red flag. Your stances shouldn’t be based on how other people perceive you.
That’s probably not the worst thing. That’s how most of us operate right? You think stuff and you say it.
@@sunfeatherX3 The thing is that Sh0e _isn't_ like most of us. She's a public personality with a platform.
@@sunfeatherX3 it’s not the worst thing. She should have grown out of it by now but it’s not a fatal flaw.
Shoe is clearly the archetypical jreg anti centrist, all political extremes simultaneously in one body
she is the political compass megazord
that's a weird way of saying independent.
@Zoe -Xe, Xim-
not at all.
independent is someone who uses their brain, instead of following ideology.
you are no better than the alt-right.
you are quite literally as bad as them.
@@sabin97 independent from what? having consistent views'
@@owo6641
"independent from what?"
ideology.
it means thinking for yourself instead of being a sheep like the "centrists" or the "leftists" or the "rightists".
26:00 This whole section is kinda sad. The thought that Shoe is talking to rightwingers because they are the only ones who talk to her, and right rightwingers are talking to shoe because they can use her.
It’s not. There are millions of non right wingers to talk about. That’s a fuking excuse
@@claymusicoff5663 but how many full on left wingers will be okay with talking to shoe? Save for like, Contra and Vaush
@@claymusicoff5663 So then why is the biggest amount of peeps on Shoe's block list lefties?
@@shadowsonicsilver6 Because yall are bad faith and insane
@@JCOdrjones not that many people are terminally online. Most commenters don't care and/or could be dragged left with her. If she did a good job for a few years people would have different opinions, she just has to actually change
This was like someone joining black water because you could convince them to stop doing war crimes.
Need a inside whistleblower in there, may as well try
@@PropheticShadeZ There have been dozens of whistleblowers from blackwater.
They are still committing war crimes 20 years later.
Can we acknowledge that black water is literally a name for an evil organisation? Like these fuckers have to have known what they were doing
@@PropheticShadeZ they would literally kill you.
@@SpookyEggs they are “Academy” now
“Think, shoe! Do you think this helps your already controversial involvement in the online left?!”
"They're my friends! Why should I let a little swastika tattoo get in the way of our friendship?!"
ya just because my friend love to build bonfire and wear white hood every weekend doesn't mean he isn't a nice guy, he only use N word in every other sentence. I seriously don't think shoe is going to change, she value her social life more than being socially responsible.
Honestly this is weird for me. I was blatantly transphobic and homophobic during my early high school days and was somehow still able to maintain a close friendship with a trans and gay person and it would turn out they would be the reason I moved over to the left. So I'm thinking is it okay to be friends with a bigot if you're actively trying to move them over or?
@@Nana-wi4gi I joke, but I think Vaush is probably right that there's a difference between personal friendships and public ties. If your friendships move over your audience, that's a huge problem. But if you're privately friends with odious people, that's probably even a good thing. I don't even think you need to actively try to move them over, because that probably won't work.
@@Nana-wi4gi There is a huge difference in a child who is still learning what ideological position they will grow in to and someone who has already grown in to an adult and had their ideal cemented. It's a magnificent idea that people change, but usually they simply.. Don't.
This is an insane strawman. Ridiculous lmfao
On one of her last live streams, a bunch of her right wing followers were trying to move her when she was complaining about the Democratic Party. She reiterated the criticisms of the DNC, then specifically called out the right wingers replying by calling all of their candidates "dogshit" while laughing hysterically.
Based
Yeah she doesn’t baby them but she also welcomes them which is how I moved left lmao
Maybe she should fucking stop laughing? The reason they don't think she really means it is, she doesn't really mean it. Anything. Ever. She never manages to speak without giggling like a fucking child. They aren't going to believe she's serious until she stops with the winking behavior. Stop giggling. Stop posting cutesy emojis. And just fucking say, dead pan, right into the camera, "I don't like you. I don't agree with you. And btw, I'm very sorry to the real women I was incredibly cruel to, and really did hurt. It's a real hurt. They werne't stupid, I was. Feminism isn't ridiculous, I have been. And I want you right wingers to go the fuck away, forever." But she won't. So why would they believe her?
based and breadpilled
@@SplotPublishing She makes an effort to not push anyone away. As long as she then pushes those people to the left - and, as a rule, she does even if she's not perfect or 100% consistent on it, partially because she's not even a leftist - I'm OK with that. All you accomplish by gatekeeping your audience is guarantee the left stays small. People like Shoe attract edgy right wingers to open them up to listen to people like Vaush, people like Vaush push them into the actual left.
Sorry Vaush but it's not fair to lump Hunter in with Shoe. Hunter has made real progress and shoe hardly any. It's pretty disrespectful to Hunter to say if you think the one is a grifter than the other is. I am sorry but taking a job with a right wing organization (even if she quit it after backlash) says alot
I think a big difference between sh0e and hunter is that hunter needed to change his ideas/opinions and sh0e needs to change her mindset. Hunter’s issue was that he was a right winger, but sh0e isn’t right wing(on most things) she’s just a reactionary memer, if she can change that I feel like a lot of people on the left would have quite a bit of common ground with her
Hunter was literally right wing lol Shoe was not
There is a 0% chance either of them are grifters.
@@ontopic1626 I think you're giving the left way too much credit. They would absolutely still hate her and give 0 leeway regardless of what she does,, because the left (at least online) is anti-reformation.
oh Jesus Christ. Hunter is clearly a grifter who doesn't believe in anything. He got into the anti sjw stuff to make money and when that died he tried to shift to what the algorithm was pushing and then failed at it.
TL;DW:
Shoe is a very controversial and confusing figure, but an ally we should have. Whenever she say something based, we should reward her with praise. That's what the right does when she says something right-wing. Do we want her to be right-wing again? No.
This deserves boosting
Most definitely. We should be doing our best to add to the flock and stop acting like moral puritans and acting like a drop of blood is enough to be outed.
Like Destiny has a few shit takes and likes capitalism, but I still think he's an okay guy. He definitely talks to his audience and tells them to stop acting like neckbeards whenever he reviews sexual harassments cancelations and I think that's good.
That type of argument only goes so far and doesn't take away Vaush's right to criticize.
@@vyxxer destiny is leagues better than shoe
@@ImaginaryMdA criticism is already happening and will continue to happen, no one said otherwise. OP's point is the other side of the equation is largely nonexistent.
We all have “problematic” friends and loved ones. Fortunately most of us don’t have to worry about our platforms.
in shoe's case, i may have "problematic" loved ones, but not one is a mfin nazi. i've cut people out of my life for far less.
@@malum9478 she’s not a Nazi dude. Unless you mean Lauren, in which case that’s closer to what seems to be the case- the problem wasn’t their friendship, it was Shoe’s public amicability with Lauren that was the problem. I tend not to judge people’s interpersonal relationships by what ‘I would do’, I just judge their actions, and if you’re making the alt right seem more approachable that’s obviously a bad thing; purposeful or not.
No, we dont. Some of us do not accept ppl in our lives whom we do not respect- ie ppl who have shitty, dumb, and hateful beliefs.
I actually wonder how any of the people who are disagreeing with you function in the real world.
@@darkcrystalmagik3369 you won't survive the real world
I can tell you're 16
This woman is 30 years old and you talk about her like she's your teenager, condescendingly correcting her behavior and trying to rescue her reputation. It's insane.
This
Ye at this point vaush has the right to be condescending with her. He keeps trying to pull her out of bad PR but she just jumps right back in
Let's be honest, SJWs can be really cringy even been for those of us who agree with progressive values.
So?
@@mjrhmekssh so it’s bad optics
@@mjrhmekssh it can be a pain in the hole. We agree with em. Just don't be so whiny or cringe. There's only so much some of us can take o this.
@@luke-be8ywit’s petty
We all have an equal capacity for cringe
"Anti-intellectualism" is a huge problem among "populist" types to the point where I almost associate the two words:
Avoiding reading past a headline, always commit logical fallacies in a disagreement, claims every source they don't like is fake news or just elitist/academic snobbery, can't say anything substantive past one or two talking points, give solutions that are not only not pragmatic but would actually hurt their cause (think FTV, Bernie-or-Bust), and definitely conspiracy theory BS that occasionally pops up in their rhetoric.
Interestingly, it was kraut's main criticism when he was drunk.... he later clarified it in destiny's chat, btw not walkback, but unfortunately he kinda really really really really dropped the ball on the pr.
This is the best breakdown I have read so far. Thank you
In my country, much more than in the US, populism is considered a dirty word for that exact reason. It's considered anti-intellectual and opportunist, and no political organisation would ever call themselves populist, even if they clearly are.
It's a simple fact that the government has evolved into a machine run by evil people that do not have the interest of their constituents in mind at all. The dems agenda is legitimately evil and Republicans are just the controlled opposition.
cept you're not intellectual you're self important. Acting like an arrogant know it all doesn't make you smart.
The Hunter Avalon part is so true. I’ve been subbed to him for a while now, and I enjoyed how he ripped Mike From PA apart. It’s very true the left does not embrace those who have reformed from the right.. while the right embraces all, and treats them like they’re part of something. That’s why it’s easy to grift to the right, and very difficult to do so on the left, as well.
That's because Hunter has the ability and patience to listen, think and hold a solid position and he does show accountability. Shoe on the other hand has very little ability to be held accountable, even when she tries, she severely downplays it or makes uwu I'm cute pls forgive me daddy eyes. Hunter really is someone who is committed to a set of principles and was always sincere in his beliefs even when he was a conservative. Shoe is more informed by the current peer group she is in and the memes she comes across. She's literally the manifestation of "I won't let a swastika tattoo and a stupid flag come in the way of my friendship. Keep your politics out of my friendship".
@@nikcantsnipe good take!
@@ployogroos I'd take a sincere liberal progressive over a wishy washy nazbol.
Sh0e seems to have found a loophole in it by getting other people, like Vaush with a big influence to try and defend her for when she does step into right wing circles off youtube. She also has most of their shared following just think shes dumb or 'and ''uwu naive guys'' even though she spent years around with and within plenty of adjacent circles. Not leftist ones other than Vaush himself. If you look at some of the policies this group is supporting, it lines up pretty consistent in her "right wing lib" views.
do you have any idea of how the alt-right hate conservatives?
18:31-18:50 But Hunter Avallone isn't continuously getting into trouble by simply by sharing his opinions on twitter as much as shoe does though. Hunter makes sure to leave no question to make it clear as to what he believes. _Everyone_ Ian included, is still completely unsure as to all of what positions Shoe even holds.
His positions are very clear; and that's how we know he's a far right grifter.
@@PlatinumAltaria 1st I don't think I entirely agree with that anymore. But 2nd what about Shoe?
@@worldof2ndfluteclarinet353 Shoe's just an idiot, she's no more dangerous than Shaun is.
@@PlatinumAltaria I was clearly referring to Hunter not Shaun.
@@PlatinumAltaria are you calling Hunter avallone, of all people, a grifter
Okay I mean I get why Vaush wants to distance himself from Destiny and all, but then he's gonna still run defense for Shoe by rationalizing her yikesy behavior? Consequentially speaking, they both pull from the far right. They also tend to shit on lefties. I feel there's something I'm not seeing here. Can someone explain this to me?
Shoe is more friendly towards lefties, Destiny is toxically uncharitable towards everything on the left.
Vaush believes that by being nice to shoe he can move her towards better positions, while the same surely isn't the case with destiny. So there IS a difference, but I still vehemently disagree with Vaush's downplaying of shoe's ignorance and lack of integrity.
Jesus Christ people saying he is into her are so fucking creepy. Vaush has been super charitable to Destiny, like insanely so, to the point everyone who isn't a Destiny simp used to make fun of Vaush for being TOO charitable, too much of a "fan" of him. But Destiny burned those bridges and outright attacked him multiple times. So, Vaush now burned the bridge as well. Meanwhile Shoe has always seemed to be kind to him and is friends with him so of course he will have a bias in favor of her. It's not that deep.
I don't know if he thinks hes convincing his audience of what he and Sh0e want us to think she is, but at this point its just making him either sound hypocritical or just delusional for Sh0e. I feel like he really thinks he's doing PR for her so she wouldn't get canceled or something. He pretty much does this whenever shes compared to other people similar to her but just seems unable to not give some sort of defense. It honestly doesn't make him look good when hes not convincing people the way he thinks he is.
@@nessie7306 I think he's just very biased because of i, and Sh0e isnt as dumb as she pretends to be in these controversies. She's friendly with people she wants to get close to so they will defend her. He just seems to give her a pass, even when shes wrong. Like in Big Joel's video, and hes a leftist as well so he had no argument.
i think Sh0e Isn't stupid necessarily, but is too an extent, willfully naive.
also, hello from Spokane!
I think I agree.
Holy shit, hello from Coeur d’Alene!
For fuck's sake. "Naive" would be not knowing those assholes were right wing monsters. That would require her to be 12 or raised in a cave. STOP MAKING EXCUSES. For the love of all that is decent in this world, will you people PLEASE let that hateful troll go!
Hello from Everett
@@christianc.8889 Also Hello from CDA Comrade!
I can appreciate Shoe changes her opinion when presented new information, and from what I've seen of her, she tries to listen to other people. I don't agree with everything with her, and it's a little hard to figure out what she believes because it changes. But I don't think the left should burn anyone who comes to the left. Most of the world is conservative, any lefties are good. Yeah, I would rather people be far left, but I rather deal with anyone being left of center rather than anyone right of center. Also, most people need to learn how to be empathetic.
All true, but empathy should be omnidirectional. A lot of people have been hurt because of Sh0e. There's a peppering of people in the comments talking about it. Hell, she started me down the pipeline.
@@anthonynorman7545 and she allowed me to be okay with stuff I shouldn't have been okay with. this is a conversation worth talking about. at the same time, she's obviously not a bad person. it's weird the age we're living in; we're just kind of subject to the moods of people who are in no way qualified. hellworld, indeed
@@peachy_lili I never said she was bad. I just didn't want to erase or invalidate the more reasonable distrust of Sh0e (who REALLY isn't doing herself any favors with her Twitter).
If this world is hell, I don't want to know what my imagination could make it lol that's kinda been most of humanity now that I think about it.
@@anthonynorman7545 A lot of the anti-Shoe stuff is an intuitive fear response, though. Which is kind of what lefties should do less of by definition.
Considering that she consistently willfully misrepresents anyone who disagrees with her, and blocks anyone who provides even the slightest criticism, I don't think she's as capable of learning as you're making her out to be lol
Shoe is basically Vaush's ex wife, In the sense that he cares, but he also isnt close enough to her to give her too much advice, but people still associate them closely with one another, all the while there's a divide between them where you can see what made them divorce.
Sounds like his relationship with Destiny in some sense
That's been their relationship from the get go tho they never really had a "honeymoon phase" I guess you could say
@@sketchysketches381 No his relationship with Destiny is a bit more... extreme, like an estranged cousin that he only see's at family gatherings, but who also used to cheat at all the videogames when they were younger.
Like they're close but they dont want to be close.
That’s a little parasocial
@@ChristopherStrider or... Is it because of the fact that their relationship being one of closeness but not being one of being on the same wave length like that of an ex spouse.
This is why I call destiny his estranged cousin, because although they are on similar wavelengths, they can't fucking stand each other.
And Hunter world be his adoptive son
I just love vaush's voice and analysis. I could listen to him to sleep/relax.
I almost fell asleep to this last night. Not to say it was boring, it was very interesting, but his voice is soothing
@@tblizzi1369 petition for Vaush to make an ASMR lol
He should do an asmr channel or do audiobook woork
@@vivahernando1 He is very well spoken and articulate, I agree! 👆
lately i've been watching him a lot while falling asleep. it really helps a lot sometimes.
Anyone else tired of Shoe? I'm don't want to "denounce" her, I'm just tired of the subject. I'm probably in the minority.
"You can take the Shoeonhead out of the alt right, but you cant take the alt right out of the Shoeonhead" seems more profound after watching this.
I think Shoe has an obsessive need to be liked. Which explains why she pals around and plays both sides so hard.
Yeah, sometimes she’s more of a funny haha TH-cam than a commenter
You seem to be less in the role of being Shoe's Father Figure and more in the role of a PR Manager that has to keep doing damage control for their diva client that keeps getting into trouble because they're an idiot with no impulse control that just can't help themselves. I'm sure it's exhausting.
People forget Shoe was debunking Hunter’s transphobia on Twitter and TH-cam in *2016*. One obviously had more changing to do than the other. Shoe just moved slightly more left.
In 2016 that troll doll was calling a black woman a gorilla and created such a gang attack that an award winning actress and comedienne CLOSED HER ACCOUNT. For fuck's sake, that troll is FAKE!!! She was a troll in 2016 and she still is. SHe was hateful. She attacked women,. ALL women, and ALL feminists. That's not ok. Just because she's cute and pretends she doesn't get it when people tell her she's being a horrible excuse for a person, doesn't mean she hasn't ALWAYS been a horrible excuse for a person. Attacking women while pretending you're a trans ally is disgusting manipulation. Stop falling for it. There are WAY better people to stand up for.
Lmao in 2016 she was saying that Trump was pro trans people and cared a lot about the country.
@@SplotPublishing take ur meds
and shoe is still an anti-feminist
@@SplotPublishing Aren't you thinking of Milo?
I think Shoe’s association with Dr. Alden proves far more problematic than anything else here. Disappointed you didn’t even bring that up.
Who?
@@ninjaHJ1 Now this does put a smile on my face
@@ninjaHJ1 Alden these coconuts
Well vaush has his own blindspots when it comes to that "Dr" too
@@Shrekfromthehitmovieshrek Deez numbers
“Any fashion can be a kink thing if you strip enough clothes away” that’s a great line lol
I only consume shoe content through TH-cam so this always comes off like a behind the scenes episode of Shoe’s life
“She didn’t investigate them, she didn’t think about it” either she’s ridiculously stupid or lying and knew what she was doing, people need to stop hand holding
Honestly.
Or maybe she not only has ADHD, but also still thinks she's just some girl on the internet who doesn't have to take anything seriously she she just does whatever. Which isn't the same as being stupid, but it leads to the same results.
She was trying to play both sides until she figured out which was best for her brand. She just got found out earlier than usual
@@leahsander5490 she’s a 30 year old woman dude
@@claymusicoff5663 Yes?
it's funny to me how people treat Vaush like he's Shoe's dad, when she is like almost 10 years older than him. edit: ok, turns out the difference is just 3 years, but still
lefty disinfo 😠
3 years still falls under "almost 10 years".
why would you think Shoe is almost 10 years older than Vaush? if anything, Vaush clearly looks like the older one.
Age doesnt matter, only height. If vaush is taller than her than he can legally obtain guardian status. /S
@@dominiks5068 cause I know people where criticizing Shoe's trolling with "lady, you're in your 30s" a while ago and I remember Vaush talking about how he was 25 at some point. So I kinda felt like the age gap was like: 25 to 32.
It was Shoe who shared your stuff and eventually pulled me left so not to be parasocial but this is like watching my e-mom and dad get a divorce.
I think what Shoe does usually works for her but you’re right that she needs to take serious things more seriously and be careful about who she platforms.
Btw it was not Shoe who called Leslie a gorilla it was Milo and Shoe defended him. That’s still really bad but the way you worded it made it sound like she directly called her that.
If I’m remembering correctly, she didn’t say it directly but later she said he was kinda right
Correct, and as I recall it was an irl friend that told her how incredibly racist that was. The friend might have been a black girl, which emphasises it that much more.
I am pretty sure I saw a video of her saying she was a gorilla? Maybe it was part of defending Milo but she basically agreed with him on it at the least, right?
If I remember correctly, Milo called Leslie a gorilla and shoe basically said, "Its not racist because she does kinda look like a gorilla" which is barely one step removed from directly calling Leslie Jones a gorilla. So, its a "yes and no" situation. No, she wasn't the one that said it directly apropos of nothing, but yes, she might as well have said it.
@@galaxychar basically yeah. And then she had a talk with her irl friend. Was pretty embarrassed and deleted that video. As far as I recall. At least thats how she told the story to Vaush. I never saw the video so I cant claim anymore than that
I do like June. I appreciate her perspective and sense of humour, and her videos are pretty funny and well produced. But with that in mind, she's in essence an entertainer first and foremost; hardly someone I'd consult for an intellectual deep dive into the intricate facets of a particular issue. I see her as someone who's trying to point out the left's ridiculousness not so that people will move to the right, but so that the left can recognize it in themselves and correct for it. I'd say she has a predominantly layman aesthetic: just an average person with average views based on an average amount of thought put into them. So really, the question is more of whether or not that's still kosher when you come to have the size of an audience she does. I guess what it boils down to is that the bigger your platform, the more responsibility you bear. So while there's nothing inherently wrong with her views or approach, she's at best fairly cavalier about that responsibility, if she even acknowledges it at all. In her defence, it's easy for me to see how even an _extremely_ influential TH-camr could still view themselves as merely "just a TH-camr" and therefore just as insignificant as any private citizen. I can fully imagine how a TH-camr could understand their own influence, yet still _feel_ as though it weren't real. It's gotta be a tough sell for some people to think they wield that kind of power when they see themselves as just an average nobody goofing around making silly videos in their bedroom. The nature of the internet as a platform seems to lend itself to allowing people the illusion that even as their popularity grows, the effects of their words and actions somehow doesn't grow with it. The criticism she receives on this front is fair, though I'm more inclined to sympathize with her all the same.
Thats true.. She also started youtube at a time when the word youtuber just meant anyone who uploaded videos to youtube before people started gaining these massive followings. I can see how she still sees it as just sharing her opinions and memeing and doesn't see any need to take action or advocate for anything really. I mean we can't force people to act the way we want them to even if we think it will benefit the left or whatever, I really do think she just likes being goofy and "calling people out" on things over Twitter because its fun and even when she did make political videos it was just on topics she wanted to talk about I really don't think she considers herself to be responsible for persuading her audience of anything. Idk
I think of Gus and Eddy when you talk about mostly-neutral-occasionally-left comedians. But maybe they're further left than I think and this is my leftist bias talking.
Gus and Eddy are great btw
Ik that Gus likes Hasanabi and his gf is Bernie fan, so I’m assuming he’s left
@@hypechris8879 Abelina Sabrina (Gus' girlfriend) is extremely active in the political sphere and I'd classify her as very much left-wing. She's the one who gave us the expose about the cheesy ridiculousness of the DNC swag bags! ♥
Gus and Eddy are based. I recall Eddy dunking on Poop Girl.
I think they're probably Socdem or Socdem-adjacent. Don't think either of the boys are Third World Maoists or Anarcho-Syndicalists or anything but they unapologetically support progressive causes which is good enough for comedians for me.
@@jodajoda2863 the vast majority of leftists aren't as far as that dude, the biggest portion of the left is made up of socdems.
She has always been a reactionary. Her "I can still be friends with those I disagree with" mindset when it comes to even far right-wingers has always been concerning. Ultimately Shoe still treats politics like it's some sports teams stuff, like after the game we all have a pint at the pub regardless of the team we cheered for and we get along.
No.
At some point you have to decide what your goal is with socio-political interactions. Do you want an all-out war with your political opponents? Or do you want to change minds? If it's the former then sure, cut them off and lock-n-load I guess. If it's the latter, then being friendly and affable in the face of dissenting opinions is far more effective.
Very rarely is anyone's mind changed when they espouse a viewpoint and are immediately 'owned' and embarrassed. People change their opinions as a result of prolonged exposure to better opinions. You'll never get the opportunity to expose people to your views over an extended period of time if you alienate them the moment they open their mouth.
politics actually is a game for you. You just take it extremely seriously but you have no influence on the outcome.
@@crowleyswhitehorse it's for exactly this reason I hate when debates devolve into bloodsports. Nothing is accomplished and it's just pure entertainment at that point. That's why I like a majority of Vaush's talks because he's rarely talking to the person, he's talking to the audience trying to change minds.
So
Kill your neighbor or try to change minds....yup
You do realize that if you hang around with Socialists all day, you aren't going to be spreading your ideas. You are just preaching to the choir. At least Shoe is willing to discuss things with other people outside of her bubble.
Shoe and her fans used to harass trans people in the comments of her WAY old videos.. I know from first hand experience 🙄
Lol yes but those are her old videos. And I'm sorry that happened.
Maybe next time don't be an asshole.
@@glenbolderson9279 How the hell did you arrive at that conclusion?
@@sharkythegw7843 Backwardsly, they did it backwardsly from their own bias and pre-supposing atley was being an asshole. Even though she has a pfp and this beta just got a 'g' for a icon.
Oh and it has been said already but I am sorry that happened. I also think that even in her 'old videos' she hasn't changed much. It would be better in some ways if we stopped giving Shoe free passes because she is cute because it is doing real damage at this point. At least that last part is entirely my own take, I do not like reactionary populists generally.
But she... stopped doing that and came out in support of trans people after?
Like, making that some kind of "black mark" thing against her would fundamentally, by definition, be a pretty conservative position to take.
I think if she wasn't a pretty girl most of you would be calling for her head on a platter. There'd be no second guessing or acts of forgiveness.
Uh oh don’t let your misogyny show there bud 😂😂😂
@@mookiestewart3776 ?
Also if she was a dude
Agree Dana
I mean hunter Avalone has been pretty accepted in vaush’s community as well... and he’s not a pretty girl?
She does seem just, so desperate to look witty and funny. She's no better than a wokescold that wants to look virtuos over everything. Over practicality, over nuance, over just being correct.
They both just really care what other people think of them
Do you really think being sanctimonious is "just as bad" as trying to be funny? Aren't you doing exactly the same thing you criticize, here?
@@revlarmilion9574 I mean, it really doesn't matter to me how moral or clever i look in a youtube comment section, but,,
it's ok to want to be correct. All nuanced, good faith criticism is still just an attempt to be correct. If you think that's bad then you could say all criticism ever is bad, including your comment. All i'm saying is that both shoe and wolkscolds prioritise optically winning over being correct. Which you personally think is worse is subjective.
At least wokescolds are honest, shoe looks like she’s trying to basically hold back her more left wing views to appease her conservative fans and want to seem edgy and cool so her edgelord stans will stay
So to resume:
-Vaush promises she isn't a grifter
-Vaush pretty clearly indicates she's a grifter with the Afghanistan example
-Vaush just feels like it's not a grift though because "that's how her brain works"
If it looks like a grifter, swims like a grifter, and quacks like a grifter... I dunno, man, might be, you know...
With regards to June, I distinctly remember the both of you doing a 4th of July stream. You both were drinking, causing the verbal guards to sleep on the watch. She let out some pretty terrible opinions about immigrants. She let out some awful takes about what a "national border" is and why they're "so important". In addition, she's a populist. I despise populism because near any populist leader has turned out to be a fraud.
i mean isnt vaush a populist too?
Her immigrant opinions are garbage. 🤮
@@x999uuu1 in certain respects, Vaush can be called a populist. However, I would also consider his approach more grounded than the standard "burn it all down" approach. I find the average populist short-sighted in that they don't seem to have a plan beyond "burn it all down". Vaush has clearly stated several times that there's a Marxist based groundwork for a more stable system. I'm skeptical of worker co-ops but I think it merits study
@@x999uuu1 he says in this video that he’s not quite a populist, he just sees it as an occasionally useful method to deliver his ideas - But if you use it too much, populist anti-elitism can turn into anti-intellectualism, so he doesn’t think it’s good to rely on the populist style of messaging a lot
@@SalinaBabba8343 What did Shoe say in the stream?
I'm part of the Shoe0nHead to Vaush pipeline. I found out about Ian through her streams years ago, now I watch far more Vaush than Shoe.
There's so many great points here. Especially the one about Shoe seeing herself mostly as some kind of a comedian. Her interest in politics seems to boil down to how you can joke about it and memefy it. She rarely talks seriously about anything.
But this also makes me think about why does it seem like the right is celebrating people who become right wingers, more than the left seems to celebrate people who become left wingers.
One reason might be cause for example Hunter Avallone isn't exactly left leaning. He's more like a liberal now i guess. Do right wingers celebrate when a left leaning person becomes a liberal? I don't know.
Hunter did became a liberal with soc dem tendencies, but when you genuinly move positions, is aways slowly, and he is not the only exemple, theee is also the girl that addmited she was a nazi years ago and people were malding instead of getting interested on what deradicalized her or to what extent, the overall online left have a problem with people that were on the right at some point of theie lives, sigh, I recently saw a supposed lefty accusing Contrapoints of being reactionary because of thing she made when she was 15, this was literally half her age
@@italucenaz The thing is that being a liberal is pretty much the default position of a western human being. When I meet a new person, I assume he/she is a liberal. If he's a true lefty or a conservative, that's more surprising. So I guess neither side is celebrating when a person becomes a default human being so to speak. People are more excited when someone becomes an actual lefty or a conservative.
I think people were positive towards Hunter Avallone when he become a liberal, but I guess they could have been even more excited. I've been watching a little bit of his content since then, but as a lefty I'm just more interested of actual left wing content. There's just not enough time to watch everyone's videos.
But it's true that some leftists and liberals are WAY too judging. There are people who seem to compete about who is morally superior and they seem to get weird satisfaction out of criticizing other peoples mistakes. This shouldn't be a competition. We're all humans and we all make mistakes. Especially old mistakes shouldn't matter if a person has become better.
But these people don't really care how old the mistakes are I guess. Cause they get so much satisfaction out of criticizing others, that any excuse to behave morally superior is a good enough excuse for them. It's usually the so called woke SJW people who behave this way.
@@KenShackler hunter is way more left leaning than the avarage liberal
@@italucenaz Maybe in Usa. In my country we've had social democracy for many decades, so advocating for that is a pretty basic centrist position. 😅
@@KenShackler congratulations, as you may guess then in the us where hunter lives that is not the case
Why is she treated like some naive innocent teen that doesn’t know any better? Isn’t she almost in her 30s?
She is 30
because if she's trated like a naive teen, it's easier to dismiss her as a naive teen and not take her seriously.
the "left" and the "right" do this quite a lot.
Nobody gets a pass because of their age, but regardless of age, treating people like shit (even if they've definitely done something really REALLY shitty) isn't anywhere near as likely to make them change their behavior as a thorough, respectful, and - if necessary - stern critique of their behavior
She looks like a teenager from 2008 lol
@@TrentonF505 Yup
Shoeonhead the person who rose to fame because she's "against" feminism...
And then she used that fame to clean up feminism, putting the focus on second-wave feminists who wouldn't get with the times.
@@charliekahn4205 she didn’t clean up feminism. What are you even talking about. She’s just an edgelord who hopped on the “SJW bad” train.
@@charliekahn4205 CLEANED UP FEMINISM
She wasn't against Feminism. She called out bad actors within the Feminist community. She was against "pop Feminism" which is very different from real Feminism.
@@ImbriumDream She called out extremists within the left, but that is not the same thing as being right wing. You can be left wing while still criticizing those make the left look bad.
I'm about halfway through the vid but I'm just gonna put forth my answer to the shoe question. I think she likes the attention of being a public figure but doesn't care about the responsibility it garners. Like honestly i think shoe should just disappear from the internet, I think she'd be happier for it, she would be as insignificant as anyone else so she could meme and hang out with righties and edgy leftists as much as she wants with no larger effects on online politics. I am a fan of some of shoe's TH-cam content (which she doesn't exactly keep up with) but I think she'd really be happier if she had her online anonymity back.
All these people have is their internet personalities. They literally can't do anything else. She's like 30 and the only "work" experience is making videos on youtube.
Maybe she should quit Twitter, cause that's where all the drama is. Her videos are usually fine.
@Zoe -Xe, Xim- Imagine taking the criticisms against her seriously with nutjobs like this
Isn't it her job? If she stops making TH-cam videos, her source of income would start to dry up.
@@greywolf7577 idk she averages less than a video a month, though each video does get plenty of views, so it's hard to say. I feel like she's gotta have some other source of income but I don't really have any evidence for that
"Stupid" doesn't always mean "of low intelligence;" it can also mean "prone to making mistakes" or "prone to making poor decisions," the latter of which definitely could apply to Shoe
Nah, she is of low intelligence. Stop being so charitable to her.
Shoe's idea of "fun" is dangerously concerning.
"dangerously". Yea right.
This made me think of Shoe more charitably than I did
I can’t reconcile Vaush’s hatred of Kyle Kulinski with his love of shoe on head. they’re the same person politically, but Kyle Kulinski’s actually done stuff for the left so he’s vastly better.
Kyle also hasn't said sussy Nazbol shit, unless you count him being genuinely confused by some identity issues (that he usually comes around on whenever he actually talks to someone).
Started this video to listen to while getting ready to play guilty gear bow I'm at the end of the video and I still haven't connected to the server smh
hahahahaha omg, I feel youre pain.
Vaush simps for her constantly. She's like 33 and he treats her like a child.
That’s the most pathetic part.
The Lauren Southern thing by far is Sh0es biggest black eye. Racism isn't an issue where you just go "We're still best friends despite that". This isn't something like having a disagreement on tax laws. If Sh0e during that time was trying to de-convert Southern, okay. But I have a bridge to sell to anyone who actually thinks that's what Sh0e was doing.
Yeah, I do agree with that, but she has gone back and said she regrets that. I don't know if we can hold that against her after what, 4 or 5 years? I think that Vaush does have a point that if the left never even makes an attempt to talk with her, then we've ceded shoe's political engagement to the right. I don't think shoe is a right winger, even if she still has some reactionary tendencies or views. I mean, even after Hunter's convo with Vaush, he was still posting anti-abortion and anti-feminism videos, even after he made his "why I left the right" video. I think Vaush hit the nail on the head when he said shoe is so irony poisoned that she's hardwired her own brain to view every engagement as a chance to shitpost, which is a legitimate flaw of her's, just to be clear. I'm not saying that to absolve her. I hope this video actually does kickstart something in her to get her to change her behavior. I'd like to see more from her, like Hunter, but Hunter's gotten more good talks with people on the left, like Vaush, Xan, and, yes, Destiny too. If more people are willing to reach out to her and give her good criticism, like Vaush and Big Joel, maybe we'll see something good come out of it.
@@beancheesedip8337 Sure. I think the issue people have is the fact that the racism was pretty blatant. So it was already a pretty bad look that Sh0e was letting it slide. Also it's not like the warnings came from people every now and then just in passing. People were strongly warning Sh0e about Lauren for a good year or two, and they presented clear as day examples of Laurens racism. And yet Sh0e not only brushed it aside, she'd usually mock anyone bringing the issue to her. I mean she made it pretty clear that she had no issue with Lauren being a racist. And like I said, I sincerely doubt that Sh0e was trying to de-convert Lauren. I do think Sh0e has bettered herself over the years, but she at times still gets far too boggled down in reactionary BS, and it causes people who were skeptical of her change to revert back into be skeptics, and it causes people who remained skeptical of her to hold their position. Nobody should expect her to be perfect, but she at times does herself no favors when it comes to her critics. She often gives them ammunition.
@@KMC5240 I absolutely agree. Shoe is giving them ammo, and her continued friendship, a very public one at that, with a neo-nazi was indefensible. I just don't know if using that is a justification still. I think its obvious that Shoe is left leaning, even if she loves to play that "both sides, let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya," bullshit. I think her willingness to play ball with anyone who calls themselves a populist is harmful, but I hope that these continued, good faith criticisms can help push her in a constructive way. She does seem to take criticism well from people she trusts, like Vaush and Big Joel, so hopefully her behavior changes. I just think holding the Lauren Southern thing over her head isn't helping, you know? I understand that it can be used to spot a pattern of behavior, but I think she's done a decent job of pushing herself away from the alt-right, even if she still likes to hold hands with conservatives.
Ah yes, the new JQ
The June Question 🤦♂️
Or the “Shoe-ish Question”
Yeah, I know that joke was made, but I liked it.
"It's true, I am very funny." - Vaush
"I, too, am extraordinarily humble." - Drax the Destroyer.
The nazbol vortex is real. The constant Brown Shoe apologia is useless, she'll never change. Her most recent Lib-hunter act changed nothing, she's still the same. Economically left, ideologically hard right.
What's her views on ethnicity and immigration? I am not familiar with Shoe's views.
@@ia285 She's against immigration.
@@JanPospisilArt damn.
@@JanPospisilArt what the fuck?
It's the Vaush defending Destiny loop all over again.
Attacking Cringe-Lefties is fine as long as you attack Cringe-RightWing too.
what's cringe on the left? supporting human rights? supporting unions?
the rightwing and the leftwing are not equal, stop lying to yourself.
@@billieeisenhower406 Don't think I'm saying this to 'own'. It's more out of 'innoculation' against more hostile situations with rtwingers:
The OPTICAL fail when a plenary meeting devolves into 5 minutes of correcting each other's pronouns.
*This was of course, during the early days of 'figuring things out'. But it still exists.*
@@billieeisenhower406 What's cringe on the Left?
Oh man...you should pay more attention 😅
@@billieeisenhower406 They aren't equal, but the idea that the left is infallible is just silly. Tankies exist afterall.
I think her politics are indeed cohesive in that she takes parts from the left and right to fit a pretty clear wordview. When we think of someone who supports the traditional family we expect them to be conservative economically, but she views social welfare and free healthcare etc as bolstering the ability for women to stay at home, for example. She thinks gender roles are pretty much true due to her personal preferences, and so criticizes feminists, but also thinks women and lgbt people should have the liberty to do what they want as she loves american freedom. She loves the poor and hates the elites etc, and so she dislikes immigration as she thinks that gets in the way of the working class and how pro-america she is.
It honestly does make sense to me, but it is clearly a wordview created from memes and being terminally online, and not an outlook that someone comes to organically. It’s whatever feels right to her, and she doesn’t take it seriously so when people agree with some of her positions but are also racist etc she doesn’t think it’s a big deal as *she* isn’t racist, so whatever, right? I don’t think she’s a nazbol or alt right etc, I think because she sees herself in essentially everyone she is blind to the harm they cause.
I don’t think I know what there is to do about this as the only way you are going to move her over on her right wing type positions is if you make them fit into her overall worldview. And it does come down to - what do want to do on the left when it comes to people who hold harmful beliefs? Do we try and be open and change minds, or reject people who have an offensive position to not want to normalize it? It’s complicated, it really is. I don’t think any immigrants for example have to like her and would find it hard to explain to them that Shoe isn’t doing harm on that cause. But do we just send everyone away with any interest in leftism?
Oof, I never knew she was a gender roles supporter.
I disagree that it isn't an outlook people come to organically, because an awful lot of people around the world seem to arrive at that formula. It's basically what populism tends to turn into.
@@goodluckgorsky3413 Its worth emphasizing that she supports gender roles for herself. Politically, and for others, she seems to support a "Do what you want" sort of attitude.
@@martingammill-beck5846 Ah ok, I can get behind that
@@Anthropomorphic You might be right, I don’t know a lot about populist movements. I just haven’t seen a lot of intersections of the beliefs she has.
Always thought it was hypocritical for her to rage about how cringe other people are when her entire gimmick is mimicking Boxxy and attention seeking 4chan teenagers lmao. Big try hard RAWR XD energy
ive always found the boxxy thing a weird criticism because it has nothing to do with anything and shes shown old pictures of her having the same aesthetic so she just has a style another ytuber had
When I first saw her I literally thought Boxxy hadn't aged for the last 15 years. Very much agree though I can't stand 4chan energy
@@hibarikyoya854 I mean she's literally called ShoeOnHead lmao. Even if it is just the vibe she has, it's still from the same place which produced Boxxy. Not saying she's copying her, just that they're of the same ilk. And that's embarrassing for a 30 year old tbh, big cringe.
@@mysteryperson706 I really don't know anything about the shoe on head meme. What does it have to do with Boxxy? I know that Shoe made a video pretending to be Boxxy but that was many years ago. It really doesn't have any connection to what she does now.
@@greywolf7577 Trolls used to tell people on ventrilo and camsites to do random shit as a joke. Making them put a show on their head by spamming it as a request is the most well known. It's associated with /b/, but it's really just something from back when the internet was more wild westy.
It's not a surprise that purity testing is done by people who are dumb enough to think there's some guilt-by-association there
If Vaush is the person I look up to, Shoeonehead is more like the person that I sympathize with because of her imperfections. I like both of them.
Would anyone sympathize with her if she wasn’t a cute woman?? No. Not in the slightest
@@claymusicoff5663 What are you talking about? I sympathize with her because sometimes I make mistakes too. Just like her. Even Vaush makes mistakes, but he has so much knowledge that he seems almost superhuman sometimes.
I don't really understand the hate towards Shoeonhead. Most of her content is clearly leftwing. There was a time when I didn't know any left leaning youtubers, except for her. Shoeonehead was the only TH-camr who worked as an example that you can be left leaning without being a crazy SJW type of a person. Who knows how deep into the right wing rabbit hole I would have gone without her. So I respect her and I'm 100% sure that she's doing more good than bad with her content. She brings way more people from the right to the left than the other way around.
When I say that I sympathize with Shoeonehead, I mean that I would like to be more like Vaush but in reality I'm more like Shoe. I have both right leaning friends and left leaning friends. I try to understand everyone's point of view. And I'm not a so called perfect leftist. I have used the wrong pronoun of people by accident etc... Making mistakes is human.
This is what I mean when I say that I sympathize with her. No idea why you bring gender into the discussion. If you think that I would be hating on her if he was male, you could not be more wrong. I'm not a very hateful person in general and I just don't see any reason to hate a person, who makes mostly good content. I don't agree with everything Vaush says either.
@@ChristopherStrider Yet it does. The idea that she wouldn't be criticized a lot harder if she wasn't a conventionally attractive woman is hilariously wrong. If she looked like a "stereotypical" leftie, she'd get absolute destroyed by the right. If she was a man, she would get criticized a lot harder by the left. There's a lot of prettiness privilege that comes with being a conventionally attractive cis woman.
@@nikcantsnipe bingo, people are simping for Shoe.
I'd respect Vaush if he wasn't the one managing her apology tours.
Shoe is one of the few USians who talks about politics that isn't completely insufferable. There's like tankies, wokescolds, lunatic ayn rand sociopaths, alt right cringe, and there's this tiny sliver between tankies and wokescolds where reasonable people like Shoe are.
It's common to see tolerable reasonable Aussies, Canadians, Brits etc but political USians are almost all insufferable, Shoe is a rare exception.
She still seems to think we can work with the right. That’s both funny and sad.
you agree with those people on ninety percent of issues
@@universome511 Do we now?
@@universome511 I’m not even sure the right believes reality is real anymore. They’re insane.
@@christopherjustice6411 yeah I was one. believe me you do. Name an issue and I'll tell you how conservatives agree with it.
@@unslaadkrosis3489 ok I'm genuinely very interested in what your going to cite to support that. I would say the Jenner candidacy for Governor of CA but your probably going to say something different.
Sh0e is a pickme reactionary moderate. She just wants the most attention she can get from whatever group/person gives it to her and is only momentarily stopped by a semblance of a conscious and/or backlash that she may get. I can appreciate that she's still figuring out her views and that she's changing but she's still done more harm than good at this point in time. I think she lacks empathy for the fact she lead so many people down the alt-right pipeline and only cares about possibly being friends with as many people as she can be at this point and that's going to be a lot of right wing people for now. Lefties have not forgiven her for her past views especially when she keeps saying dumb shit and reacting poorly after being called out on it.
Women don’t call other women who don’t agree with them “pick mes” challenge
"Lefties have not forgiven her" because the online left is actively processing its own internalized conservative mindsets by engaging in purity testing and gatekeeping. So if you really think about it, they're literally doing the exact thing you're criticizing Shoe for: Flailing around doing a lot of harm by inadvertently stumbling into actions that manifest or benefit right wing beliefs.
The difference is that Shoe seems to actually want to change, instead of making excuses for why moral essentialism is somehow compatible with leftism (it isn't). I dunno, that's a half step above wokescolds (conservatives with baguettes to hit people with) and tankies (red fash).
Shoe has made many criticisms of people who deserved criticism back in the day.
That criticism may have spilled onto broader marginalized groups, but we need to admit that there are RedRems that are not good people, who believe harmful things and unironically hate men.
Just like Terfs are a problem.
And shoe has called out a lot of those kinds of people, and made "bluehair" jokes.
*I* watched shoe early on. And it didn't pull me to the right at all.
Too accurate, the attention from a bunch of neckbeards who will supplement her income is too strong to ignore.
@@theshocker929 Seriously? She's literally the embodiment of a pick me girl, that's how she got her career started.
How is shoe0nhead "secretly" right-wing? She is openly right-wing.
Shoe is just doing what she has always done. A/B test reactionary takes. Nothing in her history suggests she cares what lane she goes down
@@justheretocommentokdontwan685 I honestly don't think she has any politics.
It's whatever benefits her
Shoe is a basic brain for basic people who have no skin in the game and no personality
Dude, no. That's too edgy. This sounds like unironic sigmaposting.
BASED
@@FelisImpurrator you're terminally online. My statement is accurate, I've met hundreds of shoeonheads.
Shoe is the person who moved me left and introduced me to your channel in 2019. Her joining that group was a fuck up absolutely but some of your criticism misses the mark and comes across as a wee bit pretentious. It’s a good thing that Shoe plays the moderate. We need that. It may be annoying to a lot of leftists but for chuds and centrists (like me before 2019) she’s a good entry point. If she becomes an ideologue like every other leftist on BreadTube she loses what makes her Shoe and loses that “entry level” pipeline thing. I think she knows this and for that reason she is smarter than you and a lot of people in your community give her credit for. It may sound bad but This was kind of upsetting as a long term fan of both of you.
And you explain her repeated gaffs as her genius? He's not saying she needs to get on his leftist level. He's saying she needs to think beyond the lolz and feels a bit more.
Exactly my thoughts. Her closeness with right wing “populists” is a good thing as long as she continues pushing them and their audiences left. That’s why I think she also ran with the Tucker meme.
Lmao did you watch the video? Vaush doesnt want her to be a leftist, just to think about the idiotic right wing stanning she does. Im glad she brought you to the left but you are giving her way more credit than she deserves.
Yea Shoe is who introduced me to Vaush as well and I partially agree with you and him. He’s right that she needs to be more responsible but he’s also asking her to change her personality for PR sake and that would just make her fake imo. I like Shoe because she’s a dumbf*ck and flawed.
Spot on. Vaush’s elitism in this video is almost unbearable.
Pretty fair from Vaush, but:
1) Destiny DEBATING Lauren Southern is not the same as Shoe being besties with her and joining right wing groups.
2) Hunter and Shoe are not equivalent. Hunter has done so much to distance himself from his past content and apologize for it.
3) Shoe is not stupid, this is deliberate and happens too often. This is not an excuse we would accept if anyone else did it.
Vaush reminds me of the riddler because I am a generation removed from him and new to this community.
But I like the mystery of new discovery.
So do all people not in your generation remind you of bad guys from Batman?
@@bobpope3656 i hope I’m the penguin
Is it because he do the smart talk
Or because he'd look good in green
LMAO DAT THUMBNAIL THO
Shoe is Alt-right at heart. No matter how left she goes she’ll fall back on alt-right tendencies when pressure is put on or as an initial response. Let me explain from my perspective. I was raised a liberal and always had slightly conservative leaning tendencies. I joined the Marines and got some far right tendencies. Now I’m a leftist but when I get mad I always fall back on a reactionary response because at my core that’s how I respond to adversity. Whether I believe in it or not that’s my initial reaction.
I do not believe these tendencies of yours (or Shoe's for that matter) are inherent and will always stay with you, but it does take time and effort for them to dissipate. You cultivated these ideas and tendencies for so long that they became ingrained in your thought patterns. It's like smoking: when you stop, it's hard to adjust for only a short while, but a lingering sense of craving might stay with you for years and flair up when you're experiencing stress. However, it's possible to lose all cravings eventually (iirc my mom said it took her a short decade, but she has no desire whatsoever to touch a cigarette).
That's not being "alt-right" at heart. That's just realizing that the online left and the US democratic party are complete idiots with self-contradicting beliefs. I can't count how many times I've seen leftists claim they want to abolish the police, and then claim that men should be arrested just for complimenting women the "wrong way", and I get accused of being a "right wing misogynist incel" for pointing that contradiction out.
The problem with Shoe is she's stuck in the 2014-2016 ANTI-SJW "Owns da Libs!" Teen mind set. On top of that shoe still have some reactionary tendencies mixed in with her left leaning ideas.
Let's be real she does like populism and probably still has maybe some racist tendencies or at the very least mistrust towards Middle Eastern migrants. It's an uncomfortable thing to think about but it just makes sense. Yeah Shoe wants universal health Care and a little bit more workplace democracy but she still has some right wing ideas mixed in there too.
Populism is actually just the opposite of elitism. It only becomes racist when right wingers do fake populism and blame economic problems on a minority facist style. Populism originally mainly referred to socialist types
HUH? Where tf did u take the racism and eastern migrant hate from? This lies mixed in within trues is just lowkey manipulative
Being anti-SJW is not the same thing as being right wing. You can be a moderate left winger and still not support the extremes on the left. Why do so many people today assume that you can only be a far rightist or a far leftist?
I discovered Shoe literally one month ago, after having seen the Joel video. I watched a couple of videos of hers, followed her on Twitter, but soon realised that she makes very infantile content. From the poor quality of her camera, to her sense of humour, I see her as the last bastion of that youtube skepticism which was founded on attacking intuitively bad political takes. When I think about that type of media creators, I see entertainers who were not more engaged with politics than the average man, and that's why the average man related to their basic and uninformed opinions. I see as perfectly fit for Shoe to be so passionately populist: she wants to relate to that kind of audience, which is fundamentally anti-intellectualist. I don't value her opinion more than I would value the opinion of a random girl I meet on the street, that's why I don't either get mad nor applaud her when she leans from one side to the other.
She's the embodiment of what's wrong with internet discussions in general. It's just a never ending parade of mind-numbing memes with her, all cloaked in an anti-intellectual cape masquerading as quality content. As a person? I'm sure June is a very nice human being. As a content creator? Oh no, get rid of her
Problem is, she's not a random girl on a street, she's got following
How does her camera quality have anything to do with whether she is worth listening to?
@@greywolf7577 he appeared to be saying the camera quality was one of the aspects that makes her feel like 2010 TH-cam, which I think is fair.
My exact thoughts
I’m one of the many people who found you through Shoe long ago (during the Sargon drama) and I’m 50/50 about this. On one hand you are right about her behavior on Twitter being toxic but on the other hand... she’s funny. There’s a reason why the right says “the left can’t meme”. Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously. Shoe makes politics fun for newbies and otherwise apolitical people like me in 2016. Btw you sound like an angry dad scolding her but she’s probably into that lol.
@ZOE the weird vaush-shoe fanfic at every fucking interaction is super cringe
"The left can't meme" is such an odd take since that is clearly a political meme to move you to accept their points, therefore you being memed is their actual meme
That’s the downside of being right about pretty much everything isn’t it. You feel obliged to win people over with actual reasoning rather than memes. And then there’s the downside of actually caring about improving lives. It makes you take this politics game seriously, compared to the right who mostly just want to own the libs. So yes, fighting for what’s right is a burden, maybe too much of a burden for Shoe and her followers.
You’ll notice of course that leftists are way better at comedy than the right. That’s been seen over centuries, and will continue for centuries still. But when it comes to memes, they will always be the realm of right-wingers. Right-wing ideas appeal to the primitive part of our brain, and are consequently far more easily expressed in 5 words and a funny picture. We can’t change that.
@@Cream147player kinda reminds me back in 2016 where almost everyone "joked" about voting for Trump cause he had better memes about him than Hillary Clinton. Weird.
@@AT-vp8qw this is kind of irrelevant to the wider discussion but did you notice that many of those same people who were talking about voting Trump for the memes in 2016 were saying in 2020 “We must vote Trump in against radical communist Joe Biden to prevent the destruction of our country.”
Maybe Left-Leaning groups would hang out with June more if she didn't have this constant "I don't wanna be called a Liberal, so I must constantly shit on them" attitude
She is literally less offended when she is called a conservative. I think that shows her values.
@@sillybilly4710 Could be the reverse. Anger at being accused could either show contempt for that accusation, or could show reluctance to accept the truth.
She gets upset whenever political quizzes rank her as a SocDem
vaush defending shoe again without calling her deceitful/lying over and over and over again instead of dumb challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
I really like Shoe
BUT GOD DAMN I wish she would do more to distance herself from right wingers
Holy shit if she did that I would actually be more comfortable being a fan of hers, it's the only aspect of her online presence I don't like.
I feel like she needs to distance herself from right wingers because they know how big her platform is better than her by using anti-establishment populism to lure her in, and because their ideas on how society should be run are harmful and is a gateway to the broader conservative movement, hence why that group she joined has connections to Republicans who are anti-science and anti-democracy.
from a young age my mom taught me that all genders are equal the lgbtq2+ community is fighting for good and stuff like that. I found shoe when * was like 10-11 and I agreed with a lot of what she said, to a point I almost went alt-right, but everytime I thought abt my political standing I would feel gross like i was digusting. so i decided that I would start paying attention to what "the woke mob" was saying, and when i found out what they were saying was all aligned with my moms teaching i started asking her more questions and learning. anyways i just htought i shoud leave this comment here seeing as this is a big issue with young white guys going down the alt-right path. If you have any man woman or enby you love you should pay attention to what the lefts movement is. There are some crazy fucking ppl on th eleft but you can say that about the right aswell. All the left wants is rights for everyone including men. they want men to be able to have a safe space anywhere to share there feeling. feminism benefits everyone. pls just do some research of your own.
Yep hard agree, i used to have a centrist lib phase once where i wpukd fuck around with right wing ideas and people to look cool despite hating them, then i decided to go full left and never looked back
Vaush had some fair but firm dad energy in this video at times
This is basically just porn for Shoe
She's older than him by like 5 or 6 years
@@vivahernando1
Just looked it up, she's 3 years older acktshyually
Also I was talking more about the role
The Shoeish question, if you will…
I won't, thanks for the offer though
@@stephengarforth2753 not even close
@@stephengarforth2753 I mean, youre the one with the positive claim my dude, dont you know how things work?
Sure: heres a bunch of links to all the times she was not being a neo-nazi...oh wait thats not how proof works.
@@stephengarforth2753 I dont recall gamergate being a strictly neonazi thing. It was mainly anti-sjw reactionaries, incels, misogynists, etc, there were neo-nazis but that definitely wasnt the focal point of that movement.
Itd be like saying all the capitol rioters were neonazis, while there were some there that really wasnt the main crux of that event, and to treat it as such is to ignore the variable complexity of that movement.
Sounds a lot like you dont have anything to back up your claim and just dont like Shoe. Thats fine, just dont be dishonest.
@@stephengarforth2753 Wait so in your mind correctly describing the makeup and focus of those at the capitol riots...is defending them? They were garbage people but its good to understand the entire picture. Its like calling every 2016 trump voter racist. The world isnt black and white dude, lots of gray and nuance in reality. You cant just be reductive with these things.
Is Thunderf00t a neonazi? Was TotalBiscuit a neonazi? Do you see a difference between Thunderf00t's current content and Sargon's?
Or Shoe and Sargon's? Sargon is a white nationalist whinging about vaccines, white identity, and the great replacement bs. Meanwhile Thunderf00t has been doing in depth breakdowns on the pandemic and debunking covid denialists, antimaskers, etc. Does he still throw in some cringe anti-sjw bs? Yep. Still not a neonazi.
If you cant tell the difference between content creators, idk what to tell ya, it sounds like youve lost the plot.
I just thought of a feminist idea that may actually hold water. Even leftists will simp-shame a man mercilessly, but a manic pickme dream girl like shoe is never shamed. Seems like a double standard.
@@ployogroos perfect for vaush lmfao
I find the whole idea of the "pick me" insult to be sexist. It's usually used by women to insult other women who agree with a man on something. It comes from the sexist idea that women aren't allowed to think for themselves and must always follow the majority female opinion.
@@greywolf7577 good point, really, but in shoes case she offered herself to sargon and friends as female validation for their neo-masculinity rantings then became LGBT and vaushs bestie whining about sexual freedom.
Shoe is shit on daily. Idk what the hell are you talking about.
so is this video basically just an hour of 'no, it's not that shoe is stupid. it's that she's stupid in a very particular way.' love it.
My two cents, Shoe was my pipeline out of PragerU level American Libertarianism and into Soc Dem ideology, and I think she still serves that purpose for others. By being to surface level meme center leftist who reaches across the aisle, I think she provides a jumping nag off point for left skeptic peoples.
She, non-ironically, does “fix them”
When vaush is giving homework to a 30 y/o woman
Bet she likes it though.
Shoe is just NOT a deep thinker.
For those who want to know what the drama is about without watching the whole video: (50:14-50:58)
Thank you
She actually poops on her hand and drops it in the toilet?
That sucks. I hope shoe can find a way to be edgy and shitposty, without engaging in irresponcible reactionary discourse.
Also I hope that the left makes the effort to reach out and be nice for once...
Say what you will about shoe, she's very good at drawing people leftwards due to her style, and I find that very valuable as someone brought left initially by shoe