When Tony finally pays the full debt, just pats Hesh on back and says coldly "sorry for your loss" was one of his worst moments. Hesh needed a friend at that moment and Tony wasnt there for him and showed he really could have paid him in full at anytime.
I agree. 2-300 grand isn't life changing to either of these guys. In spite of his crazy spending, he could have paid it back later. He make it about the money at a time when Hesh was clearly suffering. It makes the point that these guys are in a social club, they are NOT emotionally intimate friends.
I always feel the need to make this point. How much did Tony save Hesh when Junior taxed him? Plus he GAVE him the $50k Junior whacked up amongst the captains. Didn’t ask for a thing in return.
I actually interpreted it the exact opposite. It seemed to me like he was realizing how petty he was being to a loyal associate and decent man on a personal level. Here's your money, one less thing to think about and I'm sorry for being a dick. Holler if ys need anything g
I disagree, Tony i think was trying to do the right thing and his line of sorry for your loss was really Tony saying sorry i borrowed money and was a bad friend about paying you back on time. Plus Tony knew Heshs love of black woman especially the woman he just loved and just lost. Tony was in the wrong and felt bad about it i think?
Tony didn't stay with Hesh when Renata died because he could never stand listening to other people's problems, whether it was his kids, goomadas, other gangsters, Artie etc. I think human vulnerability (or weakness, in his mind) disgusted him deep down, because he hated it in himself. Also, Tony's sociopathy didn't allow him to feel genuine empathy towards others, exceptions being animals and little babies.
as he finally admitted to Melfi in therapy, "I hate this fuckin shit" with tears in his eyes. anything that threatens to unmask him and reveal the awful truth that his mother was right about him being a "bad son", causes him to shut down. he can't be one of those jerkoffs walking out of Melfi's office, and he can't take the "easy way out" like Gloria or his son. so all that his left to him is to play the role that in his mind, is the only thing he has left now. "It's mine!" if it's a cross to bear, Tony bears it instead of admitting to weakness.
Tony thought about killing Hesh, but couldn't go through with it. I think you hit the nail on the head about the memory of his father telling him to always pay his debts like a man.
I don't think so when bobby said to just not pay him back tony said how would it look if the boss of the family didn't pay his debts tony thought about not paying him back not about killing him
Not just that, but when Junior became boss and taxed Hesh $200k of which Tony was handed $50k, Tony proceeded to immediately give Hesh back his portion and told him he didn’t want to profit off of him. It showed in the early seasons how much he respected Hesh and just how low Tony had sunk by season 6.
he knows on some level, he sets up circumstances "in case" he has to do something. and waits until opportunity presents itself, and someone fucks up enough to justify him doing what he wanted to do anyway.
I dont think Tony ever planned on killing Hesh, but he did resent owing him.... you mentioned Tony paying him only after hesh was worse off than Tony, and that was pretty much it. Tony was agonizing over his bad luck throughout the episode, but once Hesh's wife/girlfriend died all of a sudden there was somebody with worse luck than him.. in Tony's twisted mind this made paying Hesh back in full a lot more tolerable. At least that was always how I read it.
Good points. I don't think Tony resented paying Hesh. If you think about it, Tony's father Johnny put him in the position to be successful in the first place along with having Mob ties and connections based off of his relationship with Johnny. Tony honored their relationship which was why he still allowed Hesh to be affiliated with his Jersey family. Tony was more disappointed if anything that Hesh pressed the issue of being repayed considering everything that Tony has done for Hesh. For example, When Junior taxed Hesh, Tony gave his share back to him saying to him that he wasn't going to tax him. When Massive G pressed Hesh for unpaid royalties, Tony and his crew were right there to serve as his muscle. Lastly, when Hesh's son in law got attacked by Phil's crew, who did Hesh call? Tony more than likely resented the fact that their relationship was reduced to money when Hesh started to inquire about repayment.
@@robertfranks665 Tony changed A LOT from S1 to the final season. If it was S1 Tony that may have been it, but this was S6 Tony, and he definitely 100% resented it. He may have rationalized his resentment by saying their relationship came down to money, but ultimately Tony did not like owing him
It's been said before, but taking notice of how bright the colors are in the earlier seasons vs the colder/gray shades in the later seasons is one of the best metaphors for Tony's moral decline. Another layer to this masterfully written onion called The Sopranos.
I don't think that was ever the writers intention. I was even surprised that in an interview with David Chase that he essentially said that there was never a moral decline as it pertains to the Tony character. And I would agree with Chase however towards the second half of the 6th season it sure seemed like there may have been a bit of a moral decline with Tony... especially this episode... then again the payote episode is right after this episode where Tony has a bit of an awakening, but for the most part Tony's character arc doesn't feel like much of an arc in terms of moral growth or decline, except for a brief time after he almost dies.
@@LibertyRapsher I see it more as a revelation than a decline. Chris' lament "where's my arc!" seems to actually translate to Tony, not to Chris. Tony was always the man who would smother his own nephew. There is no decline because there's no true arc, we simply have the opportunity to watch the mask slip off.
Honestly I always assumed the color palette changed to muted tones because the producers wanted to emulate movie aesthetics to highlight how "premium" Sopranos was as entertaiment, and because it was very en vogue in the 00s to use "gritty" color palettes in media.
If it were any other time in the series, it would be a hard no. But Season 6 really was set up to show how Tony completely deteriorated as a person. Violent, gambling addiction, just absolutely vile. So it's definitely possible. That said, it would've been easier for him to just start to ignore Hesh and blow off the debt. He wouldn't have to kill him to rid himself of the debt owed.
What do you think is the main reason for Tony's rapid deterioration in the last season? Obviously there are a lot of things, but I can never pinpoint the most significant one.
I think the same way. Season 1 Tony would not even think about offing Hesh. In the beginning, Tony sees him as part of his crew even though he's Jewish because he's a good friend of his father, a valuable business ally, and a friend who isn't afraid to speak his mind to Tony. At season 6 though? His connection with his father brings up Tony's trauma, his business acumen brings up Tony's jealousy, and his outspokenness will hurt Tony's ego.
@@HOTD108_ The biggest reason was probably Melfi. It takes her until the end of the series to realize that this whole time she was mostly just helping him become more of a guilt-less conman.
Tony's mocking Hesh with "Da rent! Da rent!" and rubbing 2 coins together in front of the crew was him at his most hypocritical. If Hesh was into him for 200k,Tony'd never let Hesh forget it.
He was into Tony for that much. Remember when Junior taxed Hesh for 800K? Hesh convinced Junior to lower the tax, but he still had to pay Tony. When he paid Tony his share, he gave it back to Hesh saying that he wasn't going to tax him.
I never got the vibe that Tony was planning to kill Hesh. I just think he was tryna think of any other way to not pay or stall as long as possible. I don't think it was much more complicated than that. Tony couldn't not pay as boss, he's gotta be thinking about his pops telling him to always pay his debts, and Hesh is worth far more alive than dead. There's no good reason to kill him and plenty of good reasons to keep him around. A person like Hesh is very useful for someone who needs cash on the fly to pay legal bills, run, keep Carmela afloat should he get locked up or killed, and a number of other significant scenarios. Dead he's just able to write off the $250k. Tony is more cold by the end, not more stupid.
@@laddrusso5243 Except it was not really an impulse. Tony has put up with so much bullshit from Paulie by that point and was fed up with him and I can't really blame him for wanting to whack him when presented with the chance. Let's sum it all up: [1] Paulie was disloyal. Tony had strong suspicions that he was a sell-out to New-York back in season 4. It nearly cost him a war with the New-York back then, increased tensions with Johnny Sack and Carmine, not to mention the financial losses. That alone should have had him whacked there with no qualms. Paulie told Silvio that "nobody knows what tomorrow brings" which can be accurately interpreted as him willing to switch the team and throw Tony under the bus. Most of his "loyalty" is expressed only outwardly and is relentless obnoxious ass-kissing and to protect his image. [2] Paulie was cheap and whiny as hell. We know for a fact that he was not a top earner. He did not kick up his full share, and constantly made fuss about everything and felt entitled to start petty conflicts - with Feech and Sal Vitro situation, with Raplhie, always expecting Tony to fully take his side in any argument and acting bitchy having to compromise at all. Upon leaving prison in season 4, he immediately started whining and making it all about himself and complaining about not earning enough. He did not intend to give Carmela the cartel money until Tony woke up from coma, which he undoubtedly was aware of. [3] Paulie was unprofessional and unreliable. He turned a routine money pickup from the Russian into a damn debacle, nearly getting himself and Chrissy killed, losing the money, potentially losing Tony a valuable partner with Slava, making Tony go in the woods among the night searching for him. [4] This might be the least of his problems, but still worth mentioning. He became more and more annoying to deal with him and his mannerisms over the seasons. It actually started pretty early on in the series, as early as s2, where Tony has a fever dream involving shooting Paulie. We can see that his subconscious contempt for Paulie takes root and festers for quite some time [5] By season 6 e15, Tony has strong resentment towards his parent/mentor figures, all of whom he perceives as having failed him. Uncle Jun mainly, but Paulie comes as a close second. Tony says in somber tone that he at one point wishes Paulie was his father. Now, 47 year old and having the awareness that he all his life he was sold a lie and was aspiring to people like Paulie who probably never even had the values he saw in them (i.e how he views manliness, loyalty, code of honor). At this point, all that is left is a blabbering aging man with no prospects, little self-awareness and constant "remember when" stories. And yet despite all that, Paulie gets to enjoy all the little moments, be a happy wanderer who gets to watch a silly TV show and giggle like a little girl without a care in the world. And that is something that Tony cannot stand, as all his attempts to be more content and happy have failed miserably by this point. Honestly, when Tony stands with look of pure unadulterated disgust looking at Paulie laughing at a TV at night, I kind of related to him. Someone like Paulie gets to smother an old lady with a pillow and live guilt-free, while Tony gets to live with all the things that he has done and the realization that he is trapped in his life. And we have to take into the account the context of the episode - Tony is in hiding due to the possibility of being arrested for his first kill. The kill that surely cemented his path in the mob life, the kill that Paulie guided him on. His father is long dead, Uncle Jun is out of sight (and Tony is trying to push him out of mind as much as we can) but Paulie is still around and present an obvious target for Tony's murderous rage. That being said, we all know that Tony did not go for the kill as he could not get an explicit confession out of him about selling out to New-York. Still, many cite his desire to do so as something indicative of Tonys rapid moral descent, which is not something I truly ee here in this situation.
I don't think that Tony went there to kill Hesh, but I think that if Tony didn't get killed/indicted in the last episode he eventually would have. By the end of season six I think that Tony is seriously looking at everyone close to him and deciding who to kill. Chris? Junkie, pinch that canopy shut. Paulie? Big mouth, maybe I'll stab him and toss him overboard. Sil? He's in a coma anyways, etc etc
That's exactly why I think he would've flipped and helped the FBI in the event he was actually arrested and indicted. By season 6 Tony had fully embraced his debauchery and self preservation
You did not mention that Carlo was also in the car, going to the boat show. As Tony himself once told Pussy on the way to kill someone, "cut Furio lose, three is a crowd". This is a clear sign Tony was not going to kill Hesh.
There was three on the boat when pussy was killed but tony was not going to kill hesh he liked hesh and he was a valuable person to tony to valuable to kill
@@SiccDeville I think the point was just that three people being involved in a hit has happened before. However I doubt Tony would have brought Carlo specifically if he intended to kill Hesh
@@fritzforsthoefel8031Pussy was his best friend, I think Tony liked him a lot more than Hesh. He also took Paulie out on a boat when he was going to test him over the Johnny Sacks joke situation, he was annoyed that Paulie was blabbing his mouth to everyone when they were supposed to stay low in Florida. He wanted an excuse to kill him.
@@cygnustsp You mean the woman in California, but she wasn't Chrissy's fiance, and Tony never talked to Melfi about wanting to run away with her. Adrianna was the only one Tony vocalised wanting to "start over" with, but wanting Christophers women was definitely a running theme. There was also that scene where he pervs on Chrissy's wife breastfeeding in S6, and the whole thing about the real estate agent lady.
@@VitZ9 He didn't perv on Chrissy's wife, he actually stopped following the conversation when Kelly started breastfeeding and decided to go to Vegas immediately after. I think it reminded him of his mother and there was some realization that he became just like her, going to Vegas was him escaping the realization imo
I think Tony being shot in season 6 is grossly overlooked. I believe that he suffered from, as the show calls it, “degrees of brain damage” and I believe that was what made him lose the last shred of empathy and humanity he had left.
Wow never really thought about the psychological effects, I wonder if the guy they thought was Finnerty was like an effigy of that guy who liked animals and babies
I agree, and it goes perfectly with this season's Tony-theme. Season 1: The Son, 2: The Brother, 3: The Father, 4: The Husband, 5: The Leader, and in 6 he is The Beast.
Tony only killed those closest to him that were destructive and a threat to the business, the “family”. He wouldn’t have killed Hesh because it would have been bad for business. Tony cared for Hesh and thus knew all his weaknesses but Tony said himself, “the boss killing a guy to not pay his debt, how’s that gonna look?” His narcissism would never be able to find a valid reason to kill Hesh.
For a real life example, just look at Nicky Scarfo, the Philly mob boss who was so ruthless he did kill a made guy who he owned money to. This so infuriated the five families that they were going to whack him back in 86' when he was indicted. Everyone hated Scarfo so much as Scarfo was an almost carbon copy of Tommy DeSimone, an absolute psychopath who followed no rules. The mobsters who testified against him were not even considered rats by the mob, that is how much Scarfo was hated.
I love how we are all stil completely invested in this show that aired 20 years ago! Trying to figure out all the amazing nuances this show has. What a show. HBO is just fantastic and #1 when it comes to shows. Sopranos, the wire, boardwalk empire, OZ, six feet under, big love, ecs...
I think Tony thought about it, but he always had a hesitation with pulling the trigger on older guys. Hesh, LaMana, Paulie, Johnny Sack were all guys that were at some point in Tony's sphere of possible murder.
@jt808ful well obviously the helicopter thing was nuts but he never acted on his feelings for Carmela and he was smart enough to leave before he got in too deep. But way before all that Tony was such a prick to him for no reason other than an ignorant way to assert his position. The parts where furio is talking about his dad having cancer and even so sad once he's crying and T is just heartless over it. They mirror it perfectly when Furio is teary-eyed picking up Tony and he says to get over it only to get dropped off at therapy(L) to sob like a baby over a horse he encountered maybe 5 times before it died.
@@caseylayton4898 I never liked Furio, he looked synthetic like that Star Trek next gen robot, his skin was hummus colored, I could not stand the sight of him, another one I couldn't stand was Silvio, he looked like a dwarf Christopher Lee Dracula
The underlying theme to the entire show is that anyone who comes in contact with Tony Soprano is at risk of a beating, being terrorized/intimidated or death of self or your whole family. If the series had continued another season, one possible conclusion was Tony killing or disowning every member of his crew and even Carmela and the kids. Finally, left alone on a pile of ashes.
I never thought Tony was going to kill Hesh, but he did seriously consider simply not paying his debt. Hesh was right to be worried, though, given Tony's erratic behavior in the past.
I loved the parallel between Tony going to bat for Hesh when Junior becomes boss and taxes him. Tony's 50 grand share of the back taxes goes straight back to Hesh. Then the series happens and Tony sinks into his depravity and he'd probably have done it if not for the extenuating circumstances because Hesh isn't even someone he really cares about anymore by the end. Brilliant stuff, even amongst the general brilliance of the show.
That is an interesting angle but I really won't use anything from S.1 as a reference with anything that happens past the first 3 episodes of S.2 . Especially really the pilot. Remember ,the pilot episode was shot in 1997 & the remaining 12 episodes in 99' . IMO Jim 's Tony was not Tony IMO ,& really wasn't actually Tony until a few episodes into S.2 .I seem to see that Jim was still fleshing Tony out and becoming him through the first season and really super noticeable in pilot .It was just a embryonic ,Beta ,or caricature version of a Tony , that Jim wouldn't really have down into season 2. And he really just got locked into the real Tony by season 3 . Then , By the 4 ,5, 6,7 seasons he really had a completely believable mobster to me . The pilot is hard to watch as Jim actually has a deer in headlights look and sound especially . Just my take on it.
This guy knows a significant amount of this show I mean like 85-95% significant and that’s coming from someone who watched sopranos fully about 25 times lmao 🤦♂️
Great video as usual! I'm sure the thought to kill Hesh briefly crossed Tony's mind a few times, but he wouldn't do it at that time. The rude comments to Hesh were just to regain some power and control over Hesh.
Tony probably wanted to kill Hesh but didn't because it wouldn't look good. Tony was all about keeping up appearances. Remember in the car when Bobby asked him "what's he gonna do?" And then Tony mulls it over and said "How's that gonna look? A boss, not paying his debt?" I don't think he was going to kill Hesh even if he wanted to because of the implication.
I absolutely LOVE your videos, thank you for taking the time to post them for all us fans even though Sopranos wrapped up a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago! Please don't be offended, but at 6:36 minutes the word you used was "dysentery" when the correct word is the very similar "dissent". Thank you again, keep putting out superior material!
@@ethanstiles948 Are you sure about this? He is, after all, a foreigner.... Either way, I do very much appreciate humor of all sorts, especially malaprops! @Cineranter, what say you?
Not being a Jew, David Chase never would have thought of the following: IF Tony HAD rubbed out Hesh, he then could have said: "Hesh is sleeping with the Gefilte Fishes"!! Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week...🤪😝😝😝😏
Tony wasn't going to do it just like he didn't kill Paulie those two went back to his father his father loved them. Part of the questioning is partly due to Hesh's good paranoia. Hesh has been around the life before Tony was born that's why he and his son questioned if Tony would have him killed. One thing, if Tony was to kill Hesh he wouldn't have anyone in his family do it or do it himself he'd hire outsiders to make it look like a robbery just like the canceled hit on Carmine Sr and the hit on Rusty.
This video, along with others on this channel, proves how great this show is! So much to analyze, break down, discuss. I love the question. My answer? I believe the director was so clever, he wanted the audience to feel a certain way and come to their own conclusion. Show, don't tell. I don't think he wanted to, but he wanted to make him feel like he could. Emotional hostage situation. Then after his wife died, wanted to show power over him. As I watch, I'm meant to say money means nothing, but Tony was cruel enough to be the one to say it without saying it. Emotional hijacking.
Tony was never going to kill Hesh. Though Hesh's paranoia was somewhat justified. He could probably tell Tony was different by that time. Becoming a soulless monster. It's just that Tony wasn't a psychopath who just wanted to whack anything that irked him.
Regardless of what Tony’s true intentions were. I feel like that time wen him and Bobby came to the door unannounced and Hesh told Renata to get into the bedroom and lock the door. I really feel like he was actually scared for his life.
I don't think he was going to kill Hesh. This was the beginning of seeing Tony's downward spiral though in the final season. He just really didn't want to pay up the money. He knew he couldn't not pay Hesh as a boss it would look really bad and if he killed him the guys would know why that it was over a gambling debt. Tony showed how small he could be and he was getting annoyed more easily by guys who were loyal and helped him all of these years like Hesh and Pauly in episode 3. I think he would have killed Pauly though if he had admitted to telling Johnny Sack about the Ralph joke. I always thought Tony's gambling problem was brought on by the writers kind of out of nowhere in the final season. It was not an issue in any other season. We knew he gambled but there was never an indication it was creating problems. Also, Hesh's girlfriend dying all of a sudden out of the blue was very convenient as well.
I’ve been meaning to do my own video and thoughts on this topic! I think he was forsure, by the sixth season he was a sick individual that was unstoppable. The only thing stopping him was himself.
This episode is one of the more challenging things on the Sopranos to analyze. Important things to note throughout the episode is Tony bringing Hesh a bottle of alcohol. Why the shows deems it so important for us to see Hesh having heart/digestive issues throughout the episode and it makes sure to show us Hesh drinking Tony's alcohol while this is going on (he has a doctor at his house trying to figure out what's wrong with him). Hesh makes a comment about being in the bathroom prior to stumbling upon Renat's body. Eli pouring Hesh alcohol and bare in mind it shows Hesh drinking Tony's bottle of alcohol in two scenes. Also Eli taking an odd stance, adamantly standing up for Tony against Hesh's fears (it reminds me of earlier in the show when Phillip Parisi is in the car talking shit about Tony just before Gigi kills him for it). I find the line that Hesh says about Tony being the kind of guy who he would hire to deal with a guy like Tony. It makes me almost wonder if Eli would be the kind of guy who Tony would hire to deal with a guy like Hesh (very much a secondary theory, but i don't rule it out based on how odd Eli's strong stance in favor of Tony is). Tony also proceeds to pay Hesh back the bare minimum week to week almost as though he's expecting Hesh to die or that he will possibly kill Hesh. Now to play both sides since I'm not taking a definitive position is, Tony obviously has the money to pay Hesh back in full, because he ends up doing just that upon finding out that Renata died... we don't know how Tony finds out (Hesh would never have contacted Tony), but I'm guessing he finds out when he calls Hesh about paying him his weekly dues and Tony in turn shows his sympathy to Hesh by paying him back in full. I don't know... this has always been a confusing episode for me. I understand that the answer to Hesh's health problems being... the show wanted to show us the stress that Tony is causing Hesh, but that combined with the deus ex machina of Renata randomly dying keeps the door open for me and just as to why they want to show Hesh drinking Tony's liquor while having health problems. It is odd that this is the last we see of Hesh. If you were Hesh what would you think? That's the only thing I'm 100% sure of. Hesh is not happy with Tony in the slightest when this episode ends. Hesh had to spend his final days with Renata worrying about Tony and whether or not Tony would whack him. But I guess I'll never know if Renata dying was a convenient coincidence for the writing or not. The other certainty is, Hesh was not being paranoid, we know for a fact that Tony was contemplating the possibility of whacking Hesh. I lean towards him not trying to whack Hesh, but I can't rule it out with Renata accidentally being killed in the process. If the episode does in fact follow Occam's razor, which it likely does, then it's a horribly written episode. Keeping these theories open protects the quality of the episode for me.
is it impossible that Tony did end up borrowing money from Carmela? she usually folds under pressure, and that question of whether she acquiesced to paying him back for his investment and string-pulling, is kind of left unresolved. also he only won the game that he bet 10k on towards the end of the episode, so we can assume he's a bit more strapped before that. as Hesh says, Tony probably has less than 600k in assets and who knows how easily accessible any of that is, in order to pay Hesh. sure he could have sold off assets, but he doesn't want to. so the end of the episode is probably the only time when Tony feels like he's able to pay Hesh back anyway.
If he really was going to kill Hesh, he wouldn't have even bothered making those minimum payments. A few grand is a lot, especially to someone with a gambling issue.
Tony may have thought about it, but never would have done it. When the question was put to him directly, he angrily declined. And if he actually killed Hesh, his crew would have seen that Tony Soprano wiggles out of his debts, a major disgrace.
While I don't agree with Tony's attitude during this situation.....c'mon....Hesh has been involved with these kind of people for a long time, and had no problem using them to his advantage. Tony was certainly selfish and rude but......was this not to be expected? It's why I don't like lending money to friends or family when Im kind of thinking in the back of my mind, they might take that relationship for granted and assume I won't care when or if I get payed back. Tony was in the wrong, but so was Hesh
Think Hesh his wife most likely girlfriend suddenly dying (quite random actually) saved his life. Her very sudden and random death kinda feels forced for this reason.
At any point before this, no. But by this time Tony is spirraling downward and may have killed Hesh for less. I've always been surprised Hesh survived. From here on in it's dangerous to be anybody in Tony's orbit.
I don't believe Tony was there to kill Hesh. Tony was only bound by his word to pay Hesh back because Hesh had no means of collecting if Tony simply chose not to pay.
Tony is a soulless monster by the end of the show. I think if he were to live long enough, he'd eventually kill everyone around him, sparing only his direct family members and Sylvio.
I've been subbed to this channel for a while, but it's like I just discovered it all over again with all this content. I'm really loving these vids about sopranos and godfather. Please keep it coming
I don't think Tony ever really considered killing Hesh to begin with, but if he was going to, there's NO way he could do it himself. Not in a million billion years.
When I first watched the show I thought that people not in the mob were overreacting for comedic effect. Now it seems like the right move. If Hesh was scared, he knows best. Tony would have found a reason to kill him.
I think Tony's crew would have turned on him if he killed a long time family friend who has gotten him out of more than a few binds over 100 grand. I think Sil would turn a blind eye to Bert's betrayal with New York.
Out of the fear and certainty that Tony would kill Hesh, his love died at the thought of such a thing. Tony’s change of heart prevents both of their deaths
I found it disrespectful for hesh to ask for his money considering that toney and his dad did so much for him to not only earn but to even settle money as well as ownership disputes. When he asked for the money it made toney realize they were never friends. Because friends never loan money to each other and repay each other in times of need or inconvenience 💯.
I remember watching the show, which was a long time ago and thinking that Tony was pissed that Hesh had the nerve to ask for the money back. Tony thought he would pass his gambling losses on to someone else. Tony thought he was the boss, he would never pay Hesh back and that was the end of it. Hesh would keep quiet, and its the price of doing business so to speak. I always thought Tony was essentially shaking Hesh down. Of course Tony could pay him back at any time. He didnt need the loan, he had the money, he just wanted Hesh to take the losses not himself. He resented the fact that Hesh even expected to be paid back. He came over that day with Bobbie to let Hesh know, that he didnt have to pay him back, and didnt want to pay him back and that if he chose to he could just kill him instead. When Hesh's girl died, Tony came over with F U money.
I always thought he took her out has a message about breaking his balls about the money but still wanted to pay his debt but basically saying was it worth breaking my balls over. They wasnt friends after
,BUT also at the same time , the story line plays into when Hesh Blows off tony for the boat show about Ranada having 1 of her migraines and then she passes of a anyersium , migrains can be a symptom , so davd chase leaves that level of courosity
I'll start by saying sorry for my English. On the one hand, Tony goes to Hesh to console himself: in the sense that, even if I'm losing at the game, there are those who are worse off: there are those who have lost their wives (Hesh). On the other hand it is a sort of ambivalence of Tony towards Hesh: on the one hand he doesn't allow him to let off steam by leaving immediately (out of spite for the fact that Hesh didn't listen to him as a friend, asking him for money), on the other hand however he wants to take away a negative thought (worry about money) and gives it to him
Tony is many things. But stupid is not one of them. Killing Hesh would have been a death sentence. Hesh had ties to the NY crew, and probably other mobsters. Hesh was the bank for a lot of outfits. IE Meyer Lansky.
I think at that point Tony could’ve killed Hesh and not think twice about it and Hesh knew that. By then Tony could’ve killed anyone and smiled while he did it.
I think Tony had Hesh's woman killed instead of killing Hesh & that's why Tony decided to pay him & that's also why Tony acted like he didn't care that she was dead. He was letting hesh know there are things worth more than money.
I don't think Tony was going to kill Hesh. I think Tony knew at that point if he had he would have broken every code that he was supposed to follow. Kill a friend of his own family for a debt that HE incurred would be a new low that he sunk to. That's why he paid the debt eventually even knowing that there's nothing Hesh could have done about it. Yes Tony could have paid Hesh back sooner but he didn't want to dig in his own pocket to do so. Also I looked at Tony giving Hesh the money when his girl died is his way of trying to fix at least one thing during the difficult time and letting Hesh mourn in peace. Tony isn't exactly the shoulder to lean on when one is grieving.
I don't think killing Chris was because he was burdensome. Yes, the drug problems caused a strain on their relationship, but Chris was becoming a danger to both himself and others. Tony looks back and sees a tree branch going back where a car seat would have been, meaning he is a little considering Chris's children.
That’s the justification he uses to make it make sense in his mind. He mentions the fact a couple of times at the hospital and at the wake to gauge their reaction at the idea, really just trying to convince himself and make the decision to kill Chris logically sound in a sick way.
@@princegobi5992 I agree, when we see in his subconscious dream with Melfi, he's overjoyed and that tree branch is never mentioned, he's overjoyed and calls Christopher 'the biggest blunder of his career', and then goes out of his way to celebrate and further shame Chrissy out in Vegas
I often think of the movie Pitch Black. The rich, spoiled wine merchant that ends up fucking what remains of the crew when he panics and runs off, breaking the light strand. I think it's an excellent lesson in trust and why it's important not to bring people you can't trust close to your life. None of the characters in the Sopranos are perfect, but Chris simply made too many mistakes.
I think the scene was setup to remind the viewer of Big Pussy’s death and how Tony went to his house in the middle of the day being nice was shown so we could understand how afraid Hesh was at the moment he certainly was thinking Tony light kill him but the way Bobby and Tony acted in the car makes me think they didn’t go there to kill Hesh and Tony was offended because he knew anyone would be scared and not want to go off with him and another accomplice
Remember the scene when Tony and Sil are outside the Bing talking about Vin Makazin owing Big Puss money and they think he may have told Tony about Puss flipping because of that debt Sil says to Tony that they both know what they would do to remove that kind of debt so yeah Tony would of and definitely thought about it. He'd kill anyone that got on his bad side and once you were on it it's very hard to get off of it. And when Hesh doesn't take the bait with Tony's jokes I think it actually made things worse for Hesh because now Tony was embarrassed in front of his crew.
Let me explain it to you. I watched the show. Tony did not whack Hesh. He paid back the money he owed him. And Hesh had a fondness for Swedish Lutherans. Really. Got a problem wit dat?
I think Paulie, Patsy, Hesh and Janice were involved in Tony's death in the final episode. Butch orchestrated it and Carmine Jr and the guy who arranged the meeting between two side before Phil got whacked knew about it. Silvio and Bobby were dead or in coma and Tony's biggest weapon when it comes to this stuff Chris was dead. Tony was literally all alone in mafia world when he was sitting in that diner. He only had his real family left and I think they too got killed because Janice wanted all of Tony's stuff. Win AJ , carmela and meadow dead it's obvious Janice would get their house the boats and the rest. I think they foreshadowed this when junior called Janice Livia in final episode and the way Janice was going after juniors money just like she did in season 2 and 3 with Livia's money
I will try to get back with you Cineranter but there was something that I was thinking about that you could have a discussion about that I seem to have forgotten about related to either the sopranos, the wire or even some other show but I can't quite remember but as soon as I remember I will reveal it and hopefully you can make a video about it.
Good points. I agree. I don't think Tony was going to kills Hesh. I think he was picking on Hesh, and then felt bad when Hesh's wife died and tried to make up with Hesh. After that, there was no problem with Hesh.
In the end, Tony was no better than David Scatino as he himself became a degenerate gambler. Only difference being, Tony was a mob boss so who was going to strong arm him? Lol
@@andrewmartin7697 idk anytime Tony came over it stressed Hesh out a lot which also stressed her out, and being overly stressed all the time in your mid 40s can definitely do a toll on your body
Originally, Hesh walks into his room and sees the place is covered in this thick mucus like substance. He finds Renata glued to the wall in what looks like a cocoon. She begs Hesh to kill her. Hesh is confused and asked what happened. Renata gestured her head over to the other person glued to the wall. Hesh then replies, “Is that actor Tom Skerritt?” Tom replies, Yes. It is I. Your girlfriend and I are turning into eggs. Renata pleads with Hesh to kill her and Tom Skerritt with a flame thrower. Hesh does this and then goes on to live a happy life.
Tony probably never considered it much longer than he would've considered killing any associate that galled him for whatever reason in Season 6. At least, the ones he didn't kill. That, and if he had considered it much longer he'd have realized Hesh's value, and the blowback that killing him would cause. Of course, Hesh didn't consider this as heavily, because while he is a close friend and associate of the mob, he's not a made guy. He can't read Tony's mind, and Tony seems to be getting worse and worse with each passing day. Who wouldn't be paranoid about that in his shoes? End of the day, Tony heard Hesh's woman had died and took pity on the guy. Why kick a man when he's down? Especially a guy you like. Side note, I'm honestly surprised nobody's tried theorizing that Tony killed Renata with how outlandish some people's theories are with this show. (Not calling out the vid, just generalizing.)
I think at worse Tony was considering not paying him, which was what bobby was suggesting, 'tell him to go fuck himself, who's he gonna turn to' which is a valid point for maybe a normal guy, but Hesh's history with Tony and his father should mean something. I don't know if Tony felt guilt after Renata died so decided to pay the money or he was already going to because of what his father taught him about paying debts. Either way I don't think it was ever going to come to murder. Also it's not the first time that Tony could have killed someone and chose not to. He had every right from a cosa nostra point of view to kill Artie, after he waved the gun at him. But he didn't, and then he took Davey to the fucking cleaners, both were his friends, granted though Artie was much closer to Tony.
Yeah, while Hesh couldn't go to anyone if Tony didn't pay, eventually word would get around that Tony borrow several hundred K from Hesh and never repaid it and that is a bad look for a boss. It would maybe raise doubts about placing their loyalty in Tony in the event of an internal or external power struggle.
This was one of the weakest story lines. Unpredictability notwithstanding, it was never believable that Tony would turn so quickly against one of his core associates, who was loyal, competent, and liked by all. Way too rushed.
I don’t think he was going to kill him, but you can see he definitely hated owing him. And it just so happens that it comes at the worst time imaginable, when he’s on a losing streak!!.
Bobby saved Hesh life by saying not to pay him back, bc Tony always has to do the opposite of what he’s told
“I’ve known you since you weee a kid Tone. Frankly, you’ve got a problem with authority”
@@andrewmartin7697 Exactly.
If only Bobby had told Tony not to become a varsity athlete
Unless it’s Silvio.
When Tony finally pays the full debt, just pats Hesh on back and says coldly "sorry for your loss" was one of his worst moments. Hesh needed a friend at that moment and Tony wasnt there for him and showed he really could have paid him in full at anytime.
He hardly needed Tony though
I agree. 2-300 grand isn't life changing to either of these guys. In spite of his crazy spending, he could have paid it back later. He make it about the money at a time when Hesh was clearly suffering. It makes the point that these guys are in a social club, they are NOT emotionally intimate friends.
I always feel the need to make this point. How much did Tony save Hesh when Junior taxed him? Plus he GAVE him the $50k Junior whacked up amongst the captains. Didn’t ask for a thing in return.
I actually interpreted it the exact opposite.
It seemed to me like he was realizing how petty he was being to a loyal associate and decent man on a personal level.
Here's your money, one less thing to think about and I'm sorry for being a dick. Holler if ys need anything g
I disagree, Tony i think was trying to do the right thing and his line of sorry for your loss was really Tony saying sorry i borrowed money and was a bad friend about paying you back on time. Plus Tony knew Heshs love of black woman especially the woman he just loved and just lost. Tony was in the wrong and felt bad about it i think?
Tony didn't stay with Hesh when Renata died because he could never stand listening to other people's problems, whether it was his kids, goomadas, other gangsters, Artie etc. I think human vulnerability (or weakness, in his mind) disgusted him deep down, because he hated it in himself. Also, Tony's sociopathy didn't allow him to feel genuine empathy towards others, exceptions being animals and little babies.
Hesh is a user and lowlife. The only reason he deals with people he considers beneath him like Tony and his old man is because he uses them as well
as he finally admitted to Melfi in therapy, "I hate this fuckin shit" with tears in his eyes. anything that threatens to unmask him and reveal the awful truth that his mother was right about him being a "bad son", causes him to shut down. he can't be one of those jerkoffs walking out of Melfi's office, and he can't take the "easy way out" like Gloria or his son. so all that his left to him is to play the role that in his mind, is the only thing he has left now. "It's mine!" if it's a cross to bear, Tony bears it instead of admitting to weakness.
Wait ... sociopaths don't feel empathy towards others except animals and babies? Shiiiiiiiiit I must be a sociopath.
@@N.I.R.A.T.I.A.S. correction. sociopaths feel little to no empathy. Babies and Animals are not the exception.
@@wraynephew6838thats a psychopath. Sociopaths have similar traits but not quite all the way there.
Tony thought about killing Hesh, but couldn't go through with it. I think you hit the nail on the head about the memory of his father telling him to always pay his debts like a man.
He didn't kill him because of how it would've looked.
I think he was looking for a reason that went beyond money.
I don't think so when bobby said to just not pay him back tony said how would it look if the boss of the family didn't pay his debts tony thought about not paying him back not about killing him
His Dad told him lots. Like never gamble.
Not just that, but when Junior became boss and taxed Hesh $200k of which Tony was handed $50k, Tony proceeded to immediately give Hesh back his portion and told him he didn’t want to profit off of him.
It showed in the early seasons how much he respected Hesh and just how low Tony had sunk by season 6.
The scary thing about Tony is that not even he knows what he might end up doing
he knows on some level, he sets up circumstances "in case" he has to do something. and waits until opportunity presents itself, and someone fucks up enough to justify him doing what he wanted to do anyway.
What a gem of a comment
I dont think Tony ever planned on killing Hesh, but he did resent owing him.... you mentioned Tony paying him only after hesh was worse off than Tony, and that was pretty much it. Tony was agonizing over his bad luck throughout the episode, but once Hesh's wife/girlfriend died all of a sudden there was somebody with worse luck than him.. in Tony's twisted mind this made paying Hesh back in full a lot more tolerable. At least that was always how I read it.
I agree
Good points. I don't think Tony resented paying Hesh. If you think about it, Tony's father Johnny put him in the position to be successful in the first place along with having Mob ties and connections based off of his relationship with Johnny. Tony honored their relationship which was why he still allowed Hesh to be affiliated with his Jersey family. Tony was more disappointed if anything that Hesh pressed the issue of being repayed considering everything that Tony has done for Hesh. For example, When Junior taxed Hesh, Tony gave his share back to him saying to him that he wasn't going to tax him. When Massive G pressed Hesh for unpaid royalties, Tony and his crew were right there to serve as his muscle. Lastly, when Hesh's son in law got attacked by Phil's crew, who did Hesh call? Tony more than likely resented the fact that their relationship was reduced to money when Hesh started to inquire about repayment.
@@robertfranks665 Tony changed A LOT from S1 to the final season. If it was S1 Tony that may have been it, but this was S6 Tony, and he definitely 100% resented it. He may have rationalized his resentment by saying their relationship came down to money, but ultimately Tony did not like owing him
"Doctor Milfy" lol, not sure if that was a freudian slip at the start.
Thank you 🤣🤣🤣
He says it correctly seconds later. Good joke though
Cineranter did a semester and a half at seton hall so he's familiar with freud as a conshept
It's been said before, but taking notice of how bright the colors are in the earlier seasons vs the colder/gray shades in the later seasons is one of the best metaphors for Tony's moral decline. Another layer to this masterfully written onion called The Sopranos.
Walt Whitman over here
That last season was so bad though. Just boring and dragged on with not much going on outside of his feud with Phil
I don't think that was ever the writers intention. I was even surprised that in an interview with David Chase that he essentially said that there was never a moral decline as it pertains to the Tony character. And I would agree with Chase however towards the second half of the 6th season it sure seemed like there may have been a bit of a moral decline with Tony... especially this episode... then again the payote episode is right after this episode where Tony has a bit of an awakening, but for the most part Tony's character arc doesn't feel like much of an arc in terms of moral growth or decline, except for a brief time after he almost dies.
@@LibertyRapsher I see it more as a revelation than a decline. Chris' lament "where's my arc!" seems to actually translate to Tony, not to Chris. Tony was always the man who would smother his own nephew. There is no decline because there's no true arc, we simply have the opportunity to watch the mask slip off.
Honestly I always assumed the color palette changed to muted tones because the producers wanted to emulate movie aesthetics to highlight how "premium" Sopranos was as entertaiment, and because it was very en vogue in the 00s to use "gritty" color palettes in media.
If it were any other time in the series, it would be a hard no. But Season 6 really was set up to show how Tony completely deteriorated as a person. Violent, gambling addiction, just absolutely vile. So it's definitely possible. That said, it would've been easier for him to just start to ignore Hesh and blow off the debt. He wouldn't have to kill him to rid himself of the debt owed.
What do you think is the main reason for Tony's rapid deterioration in the last season? Obviously there are a lot of things, but I can never pinpoint the most significant one.
I think the same way. Season 1 Tony would not even think about offing Hesh. In the beginning, Tony sees him as part of his crew even though he's Jewish because he's a good friend of his father, a valuable business ally, and a friend who isn't afraid to speak his mind to Tony.
At season 6 though? His connection with his father brings up Tony's trauma, his business acumen brings up Tony's jealousy, and his outspokenness will hurt Tony's ego.
Hesh would've fucked his reputation
@@HOTD108_ It's simple. All that gabagool
@@HOTD108_ The biggest reason was probably Melfi. It takes her until the end of the series to realize that this whole time she was mostly just helping him become more of a guilt-less conman.
Tony's mocking Hesh with "Da rent! Da rent!" and rubbing 2 coins together in front of the crew was him at his most hypocritical. If Hesh was into him for 200k,Tony'd never let Hesh forget it.
He was into Tony for that much. Remember when Junior taxed Hesh for 800K? Hesh convinced Junior to lower the tax, but he still had to pay Tony. When he paid Tony his share, he gave it back to Hesh saying that he wasn't going to tax him.
@@robertfranks665 Hesh was NEVER in any danger. Hesh has Mossad assassin to call in for help.
Moral of the story, never get on a boat with Tony Soprano.
Hey ask your friend over there the fly on the wall.
I was just about to post that
Also.. never get into a car with Christopher Moltisanti... or his girlfriend. 🤣
I never got the vibe that Tony was planning to kill Hesh. I just think he was tryna think of any other way to not pay or stall as long as possible. I don't think it was much more complicated than that. Tony couldn't not pay as boss, he's gotta be thinking about his pops telling him to always pay his debts, and Hesh is worth far more alive than dead. There's no good reason to kill him and plenty of good reasons to keep him around. A person like Hesh is very useful for someone who needs cash on the fly to pay legal bills, run, keep Carmela afloat should he get locked up or killed, and a number of other significant scenarios. Dead he's just able to write off the $250k. Tony is more cold by the end, not more stupid.
Friendship and money don't mix
He is. Tony is contemplating about killing Paulie on the boat on impulse. What more if he owes you money on his losing streak?
@@laddrusso5243 Except it was not really an impulse.
Tony has put up with so much bullshit from Paulie by that point and was fed up with him and I can't really blame him for wanting to whack him when presented with the chance.
Let's sum it all up:
[1] Paulie was disloyal. Tony had strong suspicions that he was a sell-out to New-York back in season 4. It nearly cost him a war with the New-York back then, increased tensions with Johnny Sack and Carmine, not to mention the financial losses. That alone should have had him whacked there with no qualms. Paulie told Silvio that "nobody knows what tomorrow brings" which can be accurately interpreted as him willing to switch the team and throw Tony under the bus. Most of his "loyalty" is expressed only outwardly and is relentless obnoxious ass-kissing and to protect his image.
[2] Paulie was cheap and whiny as hell. We know for a fact that he was not a top earner. He did not kick up his full share, and constantly made fuss about everything and felt entitled to start petty conflicts - with Feech and Sal Vitro situation, with Raplhie, always expecting Tony to fully take his side in any argument and acting bitchy having to compromise at all.
Upon leaving prison in season 4, he immediately started whining and making it all about himself and complaining about not earning enough.
He did not intend to give Carmela the cartel money until Tony woke up from coma, which he undoubtedly was aware of.
[3] Paulie was unprofessional and unreliable. He turned a routine money pickup from the Russian into a damn debacle, nearly getting himself and Chrissy killed, losing the money, potentially losing Tony a valuable partner with Slava, making Tony go in the woods among the night searching for him.
[4] This might be the least of his problems, but still worth mentioning. He became more and more annoying to deal with him and his mannerisms over the seasons. It actually started pretty early on in the series, as early as s2, where Tony has a fever dream involving shooting Paulie. We can see that his subconscious contempt for Paulie takes root and festers for quite some time
[5] By season 6 e15, Tony has strong resentment towards his parent/mentor figures, all of whom he perceives as having failed him. Uncle Jun mainly, but Paulie comes as a close second. Tony says in somber tone that he at one point wishes Paulie was his father. Now, 47 year old and having the awareness that he all his life he was sold a lie and was aspiring to people like Paulie who probably never even had the values he saw in them (i.e how he views manliness, loyalty, code of honor).
At this point, all that is left is a blabbering aging man with no prospects, little self-awareness and constant "remember when" stories. And yet despite all that, Paulie gets to enjoy all the little moments, be a happy wanderer who gets to watch a silly TV show and giggle like a little girl without a care in the world.
And that is something that Tony cannot stand, as all his attempts to be more content and happy have failed miserably by this point. Honestly, when Tony stands with look of pure unadulterated disgust looking at Paulie laughing at a TV at night, I kind of related to him. Someone like Paulie gets to smother an old lady with a pillow and live guilt-free, while Tony gets to live with all the things that he has done and the realization that he is trapped in his life.
And we have to take into the account the context of the episode - Tony is in hiding due to the possibility of being arrested for his first kill. The kill that surely cemented his path in the mob life, the kill that Paulie guided him on. His father is long dead, Uncle Jun is out of sight (and Tony is trying to push him out of mind as much as we can) but Paulie is still around and present an obvious target for Tony's murderous rage.
That being said, we all know that Tony did not go for the kill as he could not get an explicit confession out of him about selling out to New-York. Still, many cite his desire to do so as something indicative of Tonys rapid moral descent, which is not something I truly ee here in this situation.
I don't think that Tony went there to kill Hesh, but I think that if Tony didn't get killed/indicted in the last episode he eventually would have. By the end of season six I think that Tony is seriously looking at everyone close to him and deciding who to kill. Chris? Junkie, pinch that canopy shut. Paulie? Big mouth, maybe I'll stab him and toss him overboard. Sil? He's in a coma anyways, etc etc
That's exactly why I think he would've flipped and helped the FBI in the event he was actually arrested and indicted. By season 6 Tony had fully embraced his debauchery and self preservation
@@ian7064 yup he can justify it by saying the mob didn’t protect him and to protect his family
I heard that there was a psychologist whom believed Tony would have eventually killed everyone in the new Jersey mob.
@@mappingshaman5280 I'd love to read/watch that
@@Lossandthepanda Me too, but to be fair, even me, a layman, could predict that. Tony was far gone
You did not mention that Carlo was also in the car, going to the boat show. As Tony himself once told Pussy on the way to kill someone, "cut Furio lose, three is a crowd". This is a clear sign Tony was not going to kill Hesh.
There was three on the boat when pussy was killed but tony was not going to kill hesh he liked hesh and he was a valuable person to tony to valuable to kill
@@fritzforsthoefel8031 i think Sills71 was making a reference to the Beviloqua hit to Pussy. 3s a crowd.
@@SiccDeville I think the point was just that three people being involved in a hit has happened before. However I doubt Tony would have brought Carlo specifically if he intended to kill Hesh
@@fritzforsthoefel8031Pussy was his best friend, I think Tony liked him a lot more than Hesh.
He also took Paulie out on a boat when he was going to test him over the Johnny Sacks joke situation, he was annoyed that Paulie was blabbing his mouth to everyone when they were supposed to stay low in Florida. He wanted an excuse to kill him.
0:46 Tony giving thought to the idea of taking off with Adriana made me face palm hard lol that was probably the most pathetic Tony ever got imo
I think it was the chick in Mexico cine was referring to
@@cygnustsp
You mean the woman in California, but she wasn't Chrissy's fiance, and Tony never talked to Melfi about wanting to run away with her.
Adrianna was the only one Tony vocalised wanting to "start over" with, but wanting Christophers women was definitely a running theme. There was also that scene where he pervs on Chrissy's wife breastfeeding in S6, and the whole thing about the real estate agent lady.
@@VitZ9 He didn't perv on Chrissy's wife, he actually stopped following the conversation when Kelly started breastfeeding and decided to go to Vegas immediately after. I think it reminded him of his mother and there was some realization that he became just like her, going to Vegas was him escaping the realization imo
I think Tony being shot in season 6 is grossly overlooked. I believe that he suffered from, as the show calls it, “degrees of brain damage” and I believe that was what made him lose the last shred of empathy and humanity he had left.
Yup trauma from the near death experience also
@@austinschindle4706 Your near death experience, whatever happened there…
*WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?!*
The shooting.
*WHATEVER HAPPENED THERE?!?!?!”*
Wow never really thought about the psychological effects, I wonder if the guy they thought was Finnerty was like an effigy of that guy who liked animals and babies
I agree, and it goes perfectly with this season's Tony-theme. Season 1: The Son, 2: The Brother, 3: The Father, 4: The Husband, 5: The Leader, and in 6 he is The Beast.
Why do people always make excuses for him he's a piece of shit
Tony only killed those closest to him that were destructive and a threat to the business, the “family”. He wouldn’t have killed Hesh because it would have been bad for business. Tony cared for Hesh and thus knew all his weaknesses but Tony said himself, “the boss killing a guy to not pay his debt, how’s that gonna look?” His narcissism would never be able to find a valid reason to kill Hesh.
For a real life example, just look at Nicky Scarfo, the Philly mob boss who was so ruthless he did kill a made guy who he owned money to. This so infuriated the five families that they were going to whack him back in 86' when he was indicted. Everyone hated Scarfo so much as Scarfo was an almost carbon copy of Tommy DeSimone, an absolute psychopath who followed no rules. The mobsters who testified against him were not even considered rats by the mob, that is how much Scarfo was hated.
HBO Max should make the Cleaver movie.
I love how we are all stil completely invested in this show that aired 20 years ago! Trying to figure out all the amazing nuances this show has. What a show. HBO is just fantastic and #1 when it comes to shows. Sopranos, the wire, boardwalk empire, OZ, six feet under, big love, ecs...
I think Tony thought about it, but he always had a hesitation with pulling the trigger on older guys. Hesh, LaMana, Paulie, Johnny Sack were all guys that were at some point in Tony's sphere of possible murder.
Johnny Sack was a fair bit younger than the rest of those guys but yeah I agree
The way Tony treated Hesh & Furio angered me greatly. They were relentlessly good to him and he was such a prick to them.
Furio was hot for his wife and came close to killing him in Vegas
@jt808ful well obviously the helicopter thing was nuts but he never acted on his feelings for Carmela and he was smart enough to leave before he got in too deep. But way before all that Tony was such a prick to him for no reason other than an ignorant way to assert his position. The parts where furio is talking about his dad having cancer and even so sad once he's crying and T is just heartless over it. They mirror it perfectly when Furio is teary-eyed picking up Tony and he says to get over it only to get dropped off at therapy(L) to sob like a baby over a horse he encountered maybe 5 times before it died.
@@caseylayton4898 I never liked Furio, he looked synthetic like that Star Trek next gen robot, his skin was hummus colored, I could not stand the sight of him, another one I couldn't stand was Silvio, he looked like a dwarf Christopher Lee Dracula
@@zombiefulci3301😂😂😂😂😂
The underlying theme to the entire show is that anyone who comes in contact with Tony Soprano is at risk of a beating, being terrorized/intimidated or death of self or your whole family. If the series had continued another season, one possible conclusion was Tony killing or disowning every member of his crew and even Carmela and the kids. Finally, left alone on a pile of ashes.
Tony Soprano is the best character in the history of television. So nuanced and unpredictable, yet oddly consistent.
Just curious, what do you consider to be 'consistent' behavior on Tony's part?
@@paulchakola7372consistently angry whenever something doesn’t go his way
@@Andrew-of7rx that's very true
Walter White could well take issue with that evaluation.
@@brucer4170Walter White wouldn't exist without Tony Soprano.
I never thought Tony was going to kill Hesh, but he did seriously consider simply not paying his debt. Hesh was right to be worried, though, given Tony's erratic behavior in the past.
I loved the parallel between Tony going to bat for Hesh when Junior becomes boss and taxes him. Tony's 50 grand share of the back taxes goes straight back to Hesh. Then the series happens and Tony sinks into his depravity and he'd probably have done it if not for the extenuating circumstances because Hesh isn't even someone he really cares about anymore by the end. Brilliant stuff, even amongst the general brilliance of the show.
That is an interesting angle but I really won't use anything from S.1 as a reference with anything that happens past the first 3 episodes of S.2 . Especially really the pilot. Remember ,the pilot episode was shot in 1997 & the remaining 12 episodes in 99' . IMO Jim 's Tony was not Tony IMO ,& really wasn't actually Tony until a few episodes into S.2 .I seem to see that Jim was still fleshing Tony out and becoming him through the first season and really super noticeable in pilot .It was just a embryonic ,Beta ,or caricature version of a Tony , that Jim wouldn't really have down into season 2. And he really just got locked into the real Tony by season 3 . Then , By the 4 ,5, 6,7 seasons he really had a completely believable mobster to me . The pilot is hard to watch as Jim actually has a deer in headlights look and sound especially . Just my take on it.
This guy knows a significant amount of this show I mean like 85-95% significant and that’s coming from someone who watched sopranos fully about 25 times lmao 🤦♂️
Great video as usual! I'm sure the thought to kill Hesh briefly crossed Tony's mind a few times, but he wouldn't do it at that time. The rude comments to Hesh were just to regain some power and control over Hesh.
Tha rent! Tha rent!
Automatic M
I agree with you re: power & control.
Imagine roles were reversed, and Hesh was the one with the snide remarks.
Tony probably wanted to kill Hesh but didn't because it wouldn't look good. Tony was all about keeping up appearances. Remember in the car when Bobby asked him "what's he gonna do?" And then Tony mulls it over and said "How's that gonna look? A boss, not paying his debt?" I don't think he was going to kill Hesh even if he wanted to because of the implication.
I absolutely LOVE your videos, thank you for taking the time to post them for all us fans even though Sopranos wrapped up a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago!
Please don't be offended, but at 6:36 minutes the word you used was "dysentery" when the correct word is the very similar "dissent".
Thank you again, keep putting out superior material!
@@ethanstiles948 Are you sure about this? He is, after all, a foreigner.... Either way, I do very much appreciate humor of all sorts, especially malaprops!
@Cineranter, what say you?
th-cam.com/video/gsqf6IY-3oo/w-d-xo.html
@@islandultra It's impossible to remember every line, even the funny and memorable ones from nine years' worth of great lines.....
Yes its def a running joke with this channel. Watch more of his videos and you'll see.
It's a reference to Little Carmine.
Not being a Jew, David Chase never would have thought of the following: IF Tony HAD rubbed out Hesh, he then could have said: "Hesh is sleeping with the Gefilte Fishes"!! Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week...🤪😝😝😝😏
@duggiesworld You know the difference between a Jew and a canoe? A canoe tips! PS: I'm allowed to say that cause I'm a Jew!😆😆😆😉
I don’t get it, guess I must be stupid forever
@@3pullsaday69 Must be.
"Without Jews, queers and gypsies, there is no... comedy." (Originally "show biz."
@@HC-cb4yp Never heard that quote before, do you know who it was attributed to? Like your thumbnail, btw...
Tony is not shy about taking people out, he would of done it asap if he intendet to
Tony wasn't going to do it just like he didn't kill Paulie those two went back to his father his father loved them. Part of the questioning is partly due to Hesh's good paranoia. Hesh has been around the life before Tony was born that's why he and his son questioned if Tony would have him killed.
One thing, if Tony was to kill Hesh he wouldn't have anyone in his family do it or do it himself he'd hire outsiders to make it look like a robbery just like the canceled hit on Carmine Sr and the hit on Rusty.
This video, along with others on this channel, proves how great this show is! So much to analyze, break down, discuss. I love the question. My answer? I believe the director was so clever, he wanted the audience to feel a certain way and come to their own conclusion. Show, don't tell. I don't think he wanted to, but he wanted to make him feel like he could. Emotional hostage situation. Then after his wife died, wanted to show power over him. As I watch, I'm meant to say money means nothing, but Tony was cruel enough to be the one to say it without saying it. Emotional hijacking.
Tony was never going to kill Hesh. Though Hesh's paranoia was somewhat justified. He could probably tell Tony was different by that time. Becoming a soulless monster. It's just that Tony wasn't a psychopath who just wanted to whack anything that irked him.
Hesh’s paranoia is 1000000000% justified
He never did.
Regardless of what Tony’s true intentions were. I feel like that time wen him and Bobby came to the door unannounced and Hesh told Renata to get into the bedroom and lock the door. I really feel like he was actually scared for his life.
I don't think he was going to kill Hesh. This was the beginning of seeing Tony's downward spiral though in the final season. He just really didn't want to pay up the money. He knew he couldn't not pay Hesh as a boss it would look really bad and if he killed him the guys would know why that it was over a gambling debt.
Tony showed how small he could be and he was getting annoyed more easily by guys who were loyal and helped him all of these years like Hesh and Pauly in episode 3. I think he would have killed Pauly though if he had admitted to telling Johnny Sack about the Ralph joke. I always thought Tony's gambling problem was brought on by the writers kind of out of nowhere in the final season. It was not an issue in any other season. We knew he gambled but there was never an indication it was creating problems. Also, Hesh's girlfriend dying all of a sudden out of the blue was very convenient as well.
Gambling can go bad at any time... look at Arnold Rothstein. Luck runs out.
Dying is convenient for slot of people.
Love your content and analysis for most-thank you
00:24 DOCTOR WHAT !?!?!?
Doctor MILFy no DOBUT
Milfy had some jugs, amirite ?
Bobby, the Calzone with legs?
I’ve been meaning to do my own video and thoughts on this topic! I think he was forsure, by the sixth season he was a sick individual that was unstoppable. The only thing stopping him was himself.
This episode is one of the more challenging things on the Sopranos to analyze. Important things to note throughout the episode is Tony bringing Hesh a bottle of alcohol. Why the shows deems it so important for us to see Hesh having heart/digestive issues throughout the episode and it makes sure to show us Hesh drinking Tony's alcohol while this is going on (he has a doctor at his house trying to figure out what's wrong with him). Hesh makes a comment about being in the bathroom prior to stumbling upon Renat's body. Eli pouring Hesh alcohol and bare in mind it shows Hesh drinking Tony's bottle of alcohol in two scenes. Also Eli taking an odd stance, adamantly standing up for Tony against Hesh's fears (it reminds me of earlier in the show when Phillip Parisi is in the car talking shit about Tony just before Gigi kills him for it). I find the line that Hesh says about Tony being the kind of guy who he would hire to deal with a guy like Tony. It makes me almost wonder if Eli would be the kind of guy who Tony would hire to deal with a guy like Hesh (very much a secondary theory, but i don't rule it out based on how odd Eli's strong stance in favor of Tony is). Tony also proceeds to pay Hesh back the bare minimum week to week almost as though he's expecting Hesh to die or that he will possibly kill Hesh. Now to play both sides since I'm not taking a definitive position is, Tony obviously has the money to pay Hesh back in full, because he ends up doing just that upon finding out that Renata died... we don't know how Tony finds out (Hesh would never have contacted Tony), but I'm guessing he finds out when he calls Hesh about paying him his weekly dues and Tony in turn shows his sympathy to Hesh by paying him back in full.
I don't know... this has always been a confusing episode for me. I understand that the answer to Hesh's health problems being... the show wanted to show us the stress that Tony is causing Hesh, but that combined with the deus ex machina of Renata randomly dying keeps the door open for me and just as to why they want to show Hesh drinking Tony's liquor while having health problems. It is odd that this is the last we see of Hesh. If you were Hesh what would you think? That's the only thing I'm 100% sure of. Hesh is not happy with Tony in the slightest when this episode ends. Hesh had to spend his final days with Renata worrying about Tony and whether or not Tony would whack him. But I guess I'll never know if Renata dying was a convenient coincidence for the writing or not. The other certainty is, Hesh was not being paranoid, we know for a fact that Tony was contemplating the possibility of whacking Hesh. I lean towards him not trying to whack Hesh, but I can't rule it out with Renata accidentally being killed in the process. If the episode does in fact follow Occam's razor, which it likely does, then it's a horribly written episode. Keeping these theories open protects the quality of the episode for me.
is it impossible that Tony did end up borrowing money from Carmela? she usually folds under pressure, and that question of whether she acquiesced to paying him back for his investment and string-pulling, is kind of left unresolved. also he only won the game that he bet 10k on towards the end of the episode, so we can assume he's a bit more strapped before that. as Hesh says, Tony probably has less than 600k in assets and who knows how easily accessible any of that is, in order to pay Hesh. sure he could have sold off assets, but he doesn't want to. so the end of the episode is probably the only time when Tony feels like he's able to pay Hesh back anyway.
If he really was going to kill Hesh, he wouldn't have even bothered making those minimum payments. A few grand is a lot, especially to someone with a gambling issue.
Tony may have thought about it, but never would have done it. When the question was put to him directly, he angrily declined. And if he actually killed Hesh, his crew would have seen that Tony Soprano wiggles out of his debts, a major disgrace.
Soprano community alive and well. ☺
Tony was annoyed from saving Hesh a ton of money when junior started taxing him then rejecting his cut when hesh was paying him
While I don't agree with Tony's attitude during this situation.....c'mon....Hesh has been involved with these kind of people for a long time, and had no problem using them to his advantage. Tony was certainly selfish and rude but......was this not to be expected? It's why I don't like lending money to friends or family when Im kind of thinking in the back of my mind, they might take that relationship for granted and assume I won't care when or if I get payed back. Tony was in the wrong, but so was Hesh
Think Hesh his wife most likely girlfriend suddenly dying (quite random actually) saved his life. Her very sudden and random death kinda feels forced for this reason.
At any point before this, no. But by this time Tony is spirraling downward and may have killed Hesh for less. I've always been surprised Hesh survived. From here on in it's dangerous to be anybody in Tony's orbit.
I don't believe Tony was there to kill Hesh.
Tony was only bound by his word to pay Hesh back because Hesh had no means of collecting if Tony simply chose not to pay.
Tony is a soulless monster by the end of the show. I think if he were to live long enough, he'd eventually kill everyone around him, sparing only his direct family members and Sylvio.
And not pay his debts? Head of the family. How would that look?
I've been subbed to this channel for a while, but it's like I just discovered it all over again with all this content. I'm really loving these vids about sopranos and godfather. Please keep it coming
I don't think Tony ever really considered killing Hesh to begin with, but if he was going to, there's NO way he could do it himself. Not in a million billion years.
When I first watched the show I thought that people not in the mob were overreacting for comedic effect. Now it seems like the right move. If Hesh was scared, he knows best. Tony would have found a reason to kill him.
Love the vids bro, just one thing - you say "dysentery in the ranks" every now and then - the word's just 'dissent'. Keep up the great work.
I think Tony's crew would have turned on him if he killed a long time family friend who has gotten him out of more than a few binds over 100 grand. I think Sil would turn a blind eye to Bert's betrayal with New York.
I actually thought that Hesh wife's dying had to do with the stress that it caused her thinking that Tony would kill him.
Out of the fear and certainty that Tony would kill Hesh, his love died at the thought of such a thing. Tony’s change of heart prevents both of their deaths
Great insight CineRanter!
Your insights are great.
I found it disrespectful for hesh to ask for his money considering that toney and his dad did so much for him to not only earn but to even settle money as well as ownership disputes. When he asked for the money it made toney realize they were never friends. Because friends never loan money to each other and repay each other in times of need or inconvenience 💯.
Another great video, keep it up!
I think it was all theatrics he never would have killed them but it shows how far he's fallen but he wants to flex on Hesh and showoff to his top guys
He might have. He chose to do Renatta instead.
WTF!!?? HBO gets free advertising and they want to COMPLAIN! Especially with all the competition that makes traditional television irrelevant.
I remember watching the show, which was a long time ago and thinking that Tony was pissed that Hesh had the nerve to ask for the money back. Tony thought he would pass his gambling losses on to someone else. Tony thought he was the boss, he would never pay Hesh back and that was the end of it. Hesh would keep quiet, and its the price of doing business so to speak. I always thought Tony was essentially shaking Hesh down. Of course Tony could pay him back at any time. He didnt need the loan, he had the money, he just wanted Hesh to take the losses not himself. He resented the fact that Hesh even expected to be paid back. He came over that day with Bobbie to let Hesh know, that he didnt have to pay him back, and didnt want to pay him back and that if he chose to he could just kill him instead. When Hesh's girl died, Tony came over with F U money.
I always thought he took her out has a message about breaking his balls about the money but still wanted to pay his debt but basically saying was it worth breaking my balls over. They wasnt friends after
Note how Sopranos is rally long version of "Goodfellas". Hesh would be equivalent of Morrie Kessler from the latter. Looks like he lucked out tho.
wow I was just asking myself this question last night and was going to search your channel to see if it's been covered.
Great video 💪🏽💪🏽
,BUT also at the same time , the story line plays into when Hesh Blows off tony for the boat show about Ranada having 1 of her migraines and then she passes of a anyersium , migrains can be a symptom , so davd chase leaves that level of courosity
A: she was a hoowah
B: she hit me
He killed Renata. He paid back but had to hurt Hesh to save face with his men
No proof for what you say. ZERO credibility.
I'll start by saying sorry for my English. On the one hand, Tony goes to Hesh to console himself: in the sense that, even if I'm losing at the game, there are those who are worse off: there are those who have lost their wives (Hesh). On the other hand it is a sort of ambivalence of Tony towards Hesh: on the one hand he doesn't allow him to let off steam by leaving immediately (out of spite for the fact that Hesh didn't listen to him as a friend, asking him for money), on the other hand however he wants to take away a negative thought (worry about money) and gives it to him
Hesh was not married to Renata. People of Hesh’s ethno-religious persuasion do not marry “Blonde Scandinavian Lutherans”, if you catch my drift.
Tony is many things. But stupid is not one of them. Killing Hesh would have been a death sentence. Hesh had ties to the NY crew, and probably other mobsters. Hesh was the bank for a lot of outfits. IE Meyer Lansky.
I think it was a 50/50 chance. If Hesh said or did something, to provoke Tony at that moment, it was possible. That's why Tony brought Bobby with him.
I think at that point Tony could’ve killed Hesh and not think twice about it and Hesh knew that. By then Tony could’ve killed anyone and smiled while he did it.
I think Tony had Hesh's woman killed instead of killing Hesh & that's why Tony decided to pay him & that's also why Tony acted like he didn't care that she was dead. He was letting hesh know there are things worth more than money.
I don't think Tony was going to kill Hesh. I think Tony knew at that point if he had he would have broken every code that he was supposed to follow. Kill a friend of his own family for a debt that HE incurred would be a new low that he sunk to. That's why he paid the debt eventually even knowing that there's nothing Hesh could have done about it. Yes Tony could have paid Hesh back sooner but he didn't want to dig in his own pocket to do so. Also I looked at Tony giving Hesh the money when his girl died is his way of trying to fix at least one thing during the difficult time and letting Hesh mourn in peace. Tony isn't exactly the shoulder to lean on when one is grieving.
He didn’t kill Hesh. Did you even watch the show?
R.I.P. James Gandolfini. You made The Sopranos my favourite series of all time.
I don't think killing Chris was because he was burdensome. Yes, the drug problems caused a strain on their relationship, but Chris was becoming a danger to both himself and others. Tony looks back and sees a tree branch going back where a car seat would have been, meaning he is a little considering Chris's children.
That’s the justification he uses to make it make sense in his mind. He mentions the fact a couple of times at the hospital and at the wake to gauge their reaction at the idea, really just trying to convince himself and make the decision to kill Chris logically sound in a sick way.
@@princegobi5992 I agree, when we see in his subconscious dream with Melfi, he's overjoyed and that tree branch is never mentioned, he's overjoyed and calls Christopher 'the biggest blunder of his career', and then goes out of his way to celebrate and further shame Chrissy out in Vegas
I often think of the movie Pitch Black. The rich, spoiled wine merchant that ends up fucking what remains of the crew when he panics and runs off, breaking the light strand. I think it's an excellent lesson in trust and why it's important not to bring people you can't trust close to your life. None of the characters in the Sopranos are perfect, but Chris simply made too many mistakes.
You're very good CR, good job
He probably would have if Renata didn’t pass suddenly.
Knowing that Hesh was dead inside like Tony himself, was good enough for Tony.
I think the scene was setup to remind the viewer of Big Pussy’s death and how Tony went to his house in the middle of the day being nice was shown so we could understand how afraid Hesh was at the moment he certainly was thinking Tony light kill him but the way Bobby and Tony acted in the car makes me think they didn’t go there to kill Hesh and Tony was offended because he knew anyone would be scared and not want to go off with him and another accomplice
Very insightful analysis.
Excellent analysis.
Remember the scene when Tony and Sil are outside the Bing talking about Vin Makazin owing Big Puss money and they think he may have told Tony about Puss flipping because of that debt Sil says to Tony that they both know what they would do to remove that kind of debt so yeah Tony would of and definitely thought about it. He'd kill anyone that got on his bad side and once you were on it it's very hard to get off of it. And when Hesh doesn't take the bait with Tony's jokes I think it actually made things worse for Hesh because now Tony was embarrassed in front of his crew.
That's the scene I started of thinking of when asking myself the Hesh question
I don’t think Tony wanted to kill Hesh, Tony was just very uncomfortable owing a good friend a large sum of money.
Let me explain it to you. I watched the show. Tony did not whack Hesh. He paid back the money he owed him. And Hesh had a fondness for Swedish Lutherans. Really. Got a problem wit dat?
I think Paulie, Patsy, Hesh and Janice were involved in Tony's death in the final episode. Butch orchestrated it and Carmine Jr and the guy who arranged the meeting between two side before Phil got whacked knew about it. Silvio and Bobby were dead or in coma and Tony's biggest weapon when it comes to this stuff Chris was dead. Tony was literally all alone in mafia world when he was sitting in that diner. He only had his real family left and I think they too got killed because Janice wanted all of Tony's stuff. Win AJ , carmela and meadow dead it's obvious Janice would get their house the boats and the rest. I think they foreshadowed this when junior called Janice Livia in final episode and the way Janice was going after juniors money just like she did in season 2 and 3 with Livia's money
It was never even hinted at that Tony was considering killing Hesh.
I will try to get back with you Cineranter but there was something that I was thinking about that you could have a discussion about that I seem to have forgotten about related to either the sopranos, the wire or even some other show but I can't quite remember but as soon as I remember I will reveal it and hopefully you can make a video about it.
Good points. I agree. I don't think Tony was going to kills Hesh. I think he was picking on Hesh, and then felt bad when Hesh's wife died and tried to make up with Hesh. After that, there was no problem with Hesh.
I think you nailed it perfectly.
In the end, Tony was no better than David Scatino as he himself became a degenerate gambler. Only difference being, Tony was a mob boss so who was going to strong arm him? Lol
How about the race track? Even if it made $100 per week it’s still money Hesh hid for all these years and didn’t abide by Tony’s fathers wishes
At first I thought he was responsible for killing Hesh’s girlfriend but then I realized the stress of Tony coming over is what killed her
Seems a bit extreme, no?
@@andrewmartin7697 idk anytime Tony came over it stressed Hesh out a lot which also stressed her out, and being overly stressed all the time in your mid 40s can definitely do a toll on your body
lol. She didn't die from stress.
Sometimes these things just happen.
Originally, Hesh walks into his room and sees the place is covered in this thick mucus like substance. He finds Renata glued to the wall in what looks like a cocoon. She begs Hesh to kill her. Hesh is confused and asked what happened. Renata gestured her head over to the other person glued to the wall. Hesh then replies, “Is that actor Tom Skerritt?” Tom replies, Yes. It is I. Your girlfriend and I are turning into eggs. Renata pleads with Hesh to kill her and Tom Skerritt with a flame thrower. Hesh does this and then goes on to live a happy life.
Tony probably never considered it much longer than he would've considered killing any associate that galled him for whatever reason in Season 6. At least, the ones he didn't kill.
That, and if he had considered it much longer he'd have realized Hesh's value, and the blowback that killing him would cause. Of course, Hesh didn't consider this as heavily, because while he is a close friend and associate of the mob, he's not a made guy. He can't read Tony's mind, and Tony seems to be getting worse and worse with each passing day. Who wouldn't be paranoid about that in his shoes? End of the day, Tony heard Hesh's woman had died and took pity on the guy. Why kick a man when he's down? Especially a guy you like.
Side note, I'm honestly surprised nobody's tried theorizing that Tony killed Renata with how outlandish some people's theories are with this show. (Not calling out the vid, just generalizing.)
Love these videos
I think at worse Tony was considering not paying him, which was what bobby was suggesting, 'tell him to go fuck himself, who's he gonna turn to' which is a valid point for maybe a normal guy, but Hesh's history with Tony and his father should mean something. I don't know if Tony felt guilt after Renata died so decided to pay the money or he was already going to because of what his father taught him about paying debts. Either way I don't think it was ever going to come to murder.
Also it's not the first time that Tony could have killed someone and chose not to. He had every right from a cosa nostra point of view to kill Artie, after he waved the gun at him. But he didn't, and then he took Davey to the fucking cleaners, both were his friends, granted though Artie was much closer to Tony.
Yeah, while Hesh couldn't go to anyone if Tony didn't pay, eventually word would get around that Tony borrow several hundred K from Hesh and never repaid it and that is a bad look for a boss. It would maybe raise doubts about placing their loyalty in Tony in the event of an internal or external power struggle.
In season 6, Tony comes out of the coma feeling changed and bit less tightly wound but by the end he becomes much darker
This was one of the weakest story lines. Unpredictability notwithstanding, it was never believable that Tony would turn so quickly against one of his core associates, who was loyal, competent, and liked by all. Way too rushed.
I don’t think he was going to kill him, but you can see he definitely hated owing him. And it just so happens that it comes at the worst time imaginable, when he’s on a losing streak!!.