It's not just the similarity between the stone technology from east coast USA and Europe. The enormous bifaces which had no practical purpose it seems were found buried in caches in both places as well. Speculation is that they were perhaps offerings before a hunting trip....you bury 5 or 6 of these huge and beautifully crafted points for good luck. Whatever the case may be it is not just the same technology but the same ritual as well. Dr. Stanford deserves way more recognition for his work which has provided such clear evidence. May he rest in peace....i sincerely hope his work is being carried on dilligently and without bias.
@@thunderwarrior1 No. Because a decision process in flintknapping is identical in many steps to arrive at such points. And the hypothesis includes many other kinds of evidence as well. Perhaps you could react more wisely if you actually studied the topic and look less ignorant.
@@forestdweller5581 you talk of ignorance and say there's a direct link between Two groups separated by time and distance. Ha! And that's not even bringing up the fluting
Very interesting information. I too don't care who was in America first. Just knowing that many different cultures arrived here at different times is amazing.
@@MargaritaMagdalena yeah there's a lot of bias opinion pieces online. I used to base my opinions on such articles but when I actually looked at the evidence, I became convinced that the solutreans and early Americans are in some way connected. What that connection is is a mystery but I think this hypothesis tries to answer that.
Solutrean logic: I ate out of a bowl today and Bronze Age civilizations did, guess the ancient Greeks secretly crossed the Atlantic and arrived to Pennsylvania! No solutrean DNA ever found in native Americans, no solutreans ever found in North America and the Kennewick man was found in Oregon. So much for “overwhelming” evidence.
The Earth is 6000 years old and was created by a bearded dude in the sky. And he wants us to abhor LGBTQ, or he'll toast our cookies bigtime. Didn't you get the memo?
"A number of genes have been positively associated with the skin pigmentation difference between European and non-European populations. Mutations in SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 are believed to account for the bulk of this variation and show very strong signs of selection. A variation in TYR has also been identified as a contributor. Research indicates the selection for the light-skin alleles of these genes in Europeans is comparatively recent, having occurred later than 20,000 years ago and perhaps as recently as 12,000 to 6,000 years ago."
You do know modern-day Europeans are not descendants of the Solutreans, right? They died out some time before the Mesolithic, around 17,000 years BP. Present-day Europeans are relatively newcomers to Europe. Proto Indo-European speakers (what would become the Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, Italic, Greek, and Anatolian peoples) only arrived in Eastern Europe around 6000 years BP from the Pontic and Caspian steppe (the Kurgan Hypothesis). As they pushed into Europe, they either displaced or merged to various degrees with earlier Neolithic peoples. Genetic and cultural evidence show modern Europeans mostly descend from these Indo-European migrants, not from earlier Mesolithic and Neolithic populations. The only cultural remnant of these pre-Indo-European peoples, is the Basque language of Northern Spain. In summary, we don't know the skin colour of the Solutreans, but seemingly how they're unrelated to present-day Europeans, they most likely did not look like them
They say that due to the low water levels during the ice age that the salutreans only had half the distance to travel to get here, which we know they did.
It was quite a bit more than half. The continental shelves of North America and Europe that are now a few hundred feet deep do not extend more than a 100 miles and often less off the coasts. During the ice age these areas were dry land or glaciated. The Atlantic was still thousands of miles wide.
@Craig Dendy Not in the North Atlantic. Look at the ocean bottom maps. Far to deep. No near surface mounts or rises that during the Ice Age would have been above sea level. We also have no idea what type of boats, if any at all the Solutreans may have had.
ScottAT: Your statement is nonsense. We do not have data from that far back, but what we do know for europe prior to farming says no. What we know of the genetic makeup of the Europe's hunter-gatherers from 8,000 or year ago is that they were dark skinned and perhaps had blue eyes. But we sure do not know everything. It is believe that farming folk from either the middle east or even as far as Anatolia brought in farming; they had lighter skin needed to absorb sunlight to make Vit D. Farmers vs primitive hunters are often deficient in dietary Vit D is one explanation. The people that strongly attack the solutrean theory do so claiming that the proponents are racists that are pushing that modern day populations of Europe have an ancient claim on the americans.
@ScottAT, I agree that the Solutreans were White Europeans with them having blonde, red, and brown hair. They came to AMERIKA first, not the so called "Native Americans", they are Siberians from Siberia, who came here second.
Many of there sites are gone,as well as Clovis and Even before that due to the Bolder fields that are all over Appalachia but are overgrown,in some places you can still find bolder fields
Hardly. The Atlantic at its most narrow was 2000 miles across -- and there's no evidence the Solutreans had boats. Asians could walk across the Bering Strait. Which do you think was easiest?
Sea floor spread! The Atlantic ocean "spread"s by a few centimeters/inches per year. Over the past 20,000 years the Atlantic has widened by about six miles. I don't think the Solutrean were thinking - OMG, that ocean is never going to this narrow again, we had better get going into the unknown just to see where we end up. If we don't do now that extra few inches next year is going to make it impossible to cross.
@@303Scott But the Bearing Straight's narrowest point today is about 50 miles. In the past it was narrower or dry. Not to hard to cross versus the several thousand miles that separated Europe from North America. The Asians may have actually boated along the edge of the land and glaciers into the New World.
Stone tools being similar isn't evidence of anything except that stone tools were a natural development. It's culture and bones that have to match and they have no evidence of either. Ancient man was pragmatic and developed tools based on what works, culture is art and that would be more sensible to compare because art and culture carry style and stylizations are not practical but aesthetic and can be used to identify cultural similarities. But tools that look the same across the world are probably so because they are made with the primary purpose that they must work the same. hence why an Adze looks the same no matter where you go. It's all about functional architecture and for people to think that Native Americans need Europeans to travel to America to teach them what is natural, functional architecture is both narrow minded and biased and even a bit insulting to presume that a race of people couldn't comprehend the basic and sensible technologies.
Actually it is evidence that the two people are somehow connected. Same shape, size, width, and the way the tools were made and used all point to there being a derivative connection. I think more work needs to be done before we know what actually happened but to dismiss this hypothesis by saying "coincidence" is very asinine on your part.
It's very poor phrasing from the researcher at minute 2:00 "Could this have happened accidentally? We argue no, it absolutely couldn't be unrelated". No serious researcher should be dealing with absolutes, not unless they have several different avenues of evidence. Stone tools are not "absolute" proof. They can very easily move between sediment layers, specially in places heavily affected by water such coasts, rivers, and glacier paths. Or like OP mentioned, they could simply be examples of convergent cultural evolution. Other types of evidence to confirm this hypothesis should include human fossils, more artifacts, genetics, and possibly even linguistics. As of yet, there are no reliably dated human remains from 20,000 years ago in the Americas. If the Solutreans made it to the Americas, they also died out here before encountering humans coming from Asia, a they left no genetic evidence in surviving native American populations. So far, multiple types of evidence heavily favor the Beringia hypothesis, unlike the very sparse evidence for the Solutrean/Atlantic hypothesis. Until more evidence is found, such absolute statements should be avoided.
That's a possibility, but what are the odds that it would happen just by chance at the exact same time on opposing coasts of different continents, one of which was previously not thought to have been inhabited at the time? That would mean that a group of people unrelated to the Solutreans would have had to move into North America from somewhere other than Europe, at just the same time as the Solutreans were expanding in Southern Europe, and then very quickly develop the exact same toolmaking techniques, without leaving any similar artifacts in the location they came from. That seems unlikely enough that alternate explanations should at least be given a serious look. I don't think the Solutrean Hypothesis is completely correct, particularly since the DNA evidence doesn't support it, but I think it is pointing in the correct direction. If you look at the DNA of modern Native Americans, it's all pretty similar except for the groups in the Great Lakes area. Their DNA most closely matches with the modern Druze people in the Levant, and appears to have diverged from there around 20k years ago. My guess is, a group of folks from the Middle East started migrating across Southern Europe around that time, eventually ending up in Solutrean territory, where they learned various toolmaking skills, and then continued heading west, across the ocean following the edge of the pack ice, ultimately arriving in North America with both Druze DNA and Solutrean-looking tools. That would explain the both genetic and archaeological evidence, and the timing lines up perfectly too.
With the same length, shape, and width and made with the same technique and used for the same purpose? Doubtful. This is very compelling evidence that the solutreans and early Americans are connected.
@@mimigigi1061 Not doubtful at all. Many a person is working on a "secret invention" and someone else gets to the patent office first. The two replies do not have inventive minds. These early people were working in stone. The only advancement is improvement of materials or technique. I have found arrowheads and spear points made from really poor materials. Quartz, some type of very hard stone that resembles granite, local stone, and even limestone. The most popular in the area I grew up in was jasper, but there was actually an Indian jasper quarry close by. You have to remember that raw materials were rarely exposed as they are today. Some of the jasper points I found had very fine serrated edges. Access to the better materials may have had a lot to do with advancement.
@@oldgoat1890 that's a false analogy. The reason why two different people can invent the same thing in today's world is because the world is more connected. Yes the two inventors in your example can invent two things without meeting each other but both rely on the same knowledge and scientific community to predicate their ideas on. There are tool patterns shared between the solutreans and early americans and that cannot be ignored.
The amount of ignorance in the comments is astounding. First of all, most academics who support the Solutrean Hypothesis do NOT think they were white Europeans, but brown skinned nomads who were more closely related to modern Middle Easterners than to whites (even the video itself depicts the Solutreans as dark skinned). So to all the Eurocentrists claiming the Solutreans were white, you're the ones making this about race, not the academics who support (or oppose) the Solutrean Hypothesis. Frankly, you remind me of the uneducated laymen who think the Neanderthals' closest descendants are Europeans based merely on some sort of superficial resemblance between the two. In reality, East Asians possess even more Neanderthal DNA in their genome than Europeans do and thus lay a greater claim to Neanderthal ancestry than most Europeans ever could, but of course Eurocentrists are too obsessed with race and physical appearance to realize this. Secondly, most academics do not corroborate the Solutrean Hypothesis, so stop pretending like it's finally been proven just because a few big name proponents have supported it. By and large, the Solutrean Hypothesis remains unsupported by scientific consensus and is overwhelmingly rejected by the archaeological community.
@@dperry19661 What?! No we're not, that's an entirely different ethnicity. First of all south asian people are brown or at least have olive undertones (different melanin genetics)
@@starrix4712 Well i'm not ethnically lots of different european groups but that doesnt mean squat. You are confusing race with cultural grouping. Lets consider those who are english and those who are scott. One is germanic and one is celtic with separate culture and language and history, but according to your logic of different racial groups also. There are 3 races with varoius sub-groups. A swede is the same race as an arab or an indian.
@@dperry19661 South Asian isn't one - or several - groups though, unlike common European classifications e.g. "Germanic," "Swede". And then what is the reason for high amount of melanin (as well as type) in the majority of south asians? They are mixed with many races - dravidian based race mainly, and then there could also be mongoloid, australoid, and then perhaps only in some also some caucasian. South Asian people are not one race or even ethnic mix unlike many other places, but a melting point of different races and mixed complexes instead. There is no one depiction of a South Asian, so you have to show someone very specifically if you want to use the white label. But even if part of that mix has a great amount of caucasian, that doesn't make them "white" as you put. That makes them mixed. *White* means near 100% caucasian (and as it's an informal term, it most importantly means non-melanin showing).
Il y a de l'écriture proto-berbère gravé sur des rochers sur le bord de l'eau à Liverpool, Nouvelle-Écosse, Canada. L'écriture correspond à l'écriture proto-berbère et est identique à des écritures / graphes sur l'île El Hierro des îles Canaries. Serait-ce possible que les Solutréens soient les ancêtres des Ibéromaurusiens ??? J'ai la preuve que les Ibéromaurusiens traversaient l'atlantique...
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I’d love to at the very least disprove “first nations” people were first but instead were actually 2nd or 3rd nations people, and then we can get rid of that garbage term
If they endlessly repeated overshot chipping, they would be left with nothing. C’mon, think about what you’re saying; this is supposed to be educational.
I'm just not sure why it's so far fetched that both separate civilizations couldn't have accidentally created near or exactly identical weapons and such by chance. It's human nature to evolve and people are smart so in my mind, 2 separate civilizations without a crossing of the Atlantic was very likely and not really crazy to think since neither culture was lacking in intelligence. Just chance and I mean human nature at that. Cool video though.
@@NightowlProductionsGroup That is very possible. Look at the wheel. It was known in the New World by the Aztecs, completely independent of knowledge from Europe.
Actually, the overshot bi-face fluted point was revolutionary technology compared with earlier stone tools. It has no comparable type in Asia. Orthodoxy calls it the Clovis point and uses it to establish 14,000 years as the appearance of humans in the Americas, from Asia. Newer evidence shows the Solutreans may well have brought this style to the Americas from Western Europe. We constantly learn new things about the global migration of early modern humans. We must be open-minded.
@@Nomatternow We must be, indeed. Now tell me, which is the more outlandish theory of the following two A- Iceage solutrians reached Europe. B- Iceage Americans made that spearhead.
You are showing your stupidity. If it was so easy why does it not show up more. Why are there the earliest points in the Eastern US, and later show up in the more western regions. I guess you believe everything Trump says also.
This has been on PBS NOVA a couple of times now. It's something like indirect percussion using a tool with a notch on it, perhaps a worked deer antler. I've heard that there has been DNA analysis of some of the aboriginal tribes in Canada and certain of those have Solutrean DNA. Politically incorrect, eh? Science and scientific facts are often politically unpopular or politically incorrect.
Modern-day Europeans are not descendants of the Solutreans (first wave of today's Europeans are from Anatolia, then near-Central Asia and from east of Finland); too, brown hair and brown eyes. The northern Europe mutation of blonde hair-blues eyes has not occurred as of yet. No, the missing wording at the end of this short is not *Columbus.* '.., many thousands of years before _the Siberia to Alaska-land bridge crossing.'_
The implication of this title is that scientists "expect" Solutreans in North America, but now we know they were here earlier than "expected". Absolute rubbish. The VAST majority of archaeologists do think the points were similar but unrelated. Shame on you Smithsonian.
@@troybonner91 Done and agreed. Anzick1 has closer European links than his presumed ancestor palaeo-eskimo. The only sample is post younger dryas, however; much later than 20kya.
Checkout the wind over big people in Florida. They are so well preserved that they still have their last meals in them! And they are said to be caucasian using dna. Btw I do believe that they are more than 7 thousand years old .
Well, there's the thing. There are bones and skeletons they could test that were found with the spear heads, but the Native American tribes that hold them refuse to let anyone run any tests to prove their origins.
I agree the two traditions must be connected, Solutrean in the Old World and the New. There is a Solutrean Shaped thin as heck biface at 11,300 feet in the Uinta Mountains, 14cm long and bipointed-Solutrean Style-, heat treated purple quartzite, amazing workmanship, that still lies where it has been for 13,500 years, like those in this video, and none of the archaeologists seem to care enough to collect it or do any research on it. It is next to an icefield and has three discarded preforms with it. One of them 17cm long has two large overshot flakes as Bradley talks about. The other two are round dinner-plate like tear drop shaped preforms shaped like those in the Fenn Cache. For that reason I think the point is a Clovis preform, but it is bi-pointed and 3 inches wide, like a Solutrean. The ocean adapted early culture would explain why we also find Clovis in Venezuela.
jon b the first people in the America’s were the Africans. Hence to all the African things found in souther America. Then it was the Natives who took over all the America’s. From Canada to South America. Vikings only ever reached Iceland? The top of Canada? They never really explored the place.
Chuckballer, lol I hope you're joking because that's not how archaeology works. The same tool sith the same manufacture technique and style was found in both America and in solutrean excavations.
I’ll be honest, I’m surprised the Smithsonian has left this video up. Modern genetics has put the final nail in the coffin of this perennially dubious theory.
then please explain Haplogroup X. keep in mind that pretty much ALL Clovis people were literally wiped out from the Younger Dryas Impact circa 12.9k years ago.
@@AustinKoleCarlisle theres a whole article on this: “The idea that haplogroup X2a is derived from an ancient trans-Atlantic migration to the Americas has been repeatedly considered - and rejected - by anthropological geneticists over the last two decades (Brown et al. Citation1998; Fagundes et al. Citation2008; Reidla et al. Citation2003; Smith et al. Citation1999, 2005). However, we revisit it here because it continues to be discussed and because recently published genomic data from ancient and contemporary North Americans help clarify the population history of North America and the likely history of this haplogroup.” Raff, Jennifer A., and Deborah A. Bolnick. "Does mitochondrial haplogroup X indicate ancient trans-Atlantic migration to the Americas? A critical re-evaluation." PaleoAmerica 1.4 (2015): 297-304.
Actually, during the ice age the oceans were up to 400 feet lower, so the land shapes were different and many ancient civilisations ruins are now under water.
The Solutrean culture ended 17,000 years ago. The oldest Clovis points date from 13,500 years ago. How is it possible that the Solutreans had any influence on the Clovis people? The Solutreans supposedly crossed the Atlantic Ocean on boats, but we have no evidence that the Solutreans had boats. The closest genetic matches of American Indians with Old World people is with East Asian and Siberian peoples -- not the people of Europe.
No ! That is not true. The 8000 year old peat bog bodies found in Windover Florida. They have been found to have DNA strongly linked to Europe. The story is on TH-cam. If they haven't taken it down. Gee ! I wonder why they would do that?
They do look the same, don't they? So, who says Clovis technology was not borrowed from the Soleutreans? My point: Bearing Strait Technology was that of very small points aka micro lithes - contrary to Clovis or as an additional example the Folsom point, which came after the Clovis technology. I'm not an archaeologist, nor am I a physical anthropologist. I took one class of anthropology and one class of Anthropology in the pursuit of my Engineering degree. Anthropology was an interest since I was a Sophomore in High School, so I have some knowledge. During my 20 year Naval career I spent three years on the ice in the Beaufort Sea, and in the environs of Ellesmere Island, and Greenland. I think on survival terms alone, I'm pretty well versed.
To illustrate how far fetched the Solutrean Hypothesis is, it postulates that the Solutreans journeyed 4,000 miles across the Atlantic Ocean in boats -- when in fact we have no evidence that the Solultreans had boats. This theory has as many holes in it as Swiss cheese. It's disgraceful for the Smithsonian to be expounding a fringe theory. I don't have any problem with people explaining the Solutrean Hypothesis (it's not credible enough to be called a theory), but the presentation should not be one-sided and biased as this is. The chronological and genetic evidence is all against the Solutrean's getting to the Americas.
I agree the Solutrian hypothesis is just that flimsy at best but, You say " when in fact we have no evidence that the Solultreans had boats. " that is true but I wouldn't expect to find a lot of boats hundreds of meters above sea level at the time which was ~110 meters lower than at present. Also the most impressive artifact found was dredged up from quite deep water off Chesapeake Bay. It would be interesting but nearly impossible to explore that area more fully.
Their is genetic evidence. The 8000 year old peat bog bodies found in Windover Florida. Studies revealed strong DNA links found fin European populations. This hard science based vedio has been taken off TH-cam. Gee ! I wonder why ?
@Craig Dendy Having a bit of a geology background I can assure you that yes rocks, ores , metals chemical signatures can be determined and can be used in different ways, not the least of which is to determine where they came from. This is helpful in archaeology to determine where stone that were traded came from and thus showing the extent of trade routes. So just comparing rocks does not tell us much about human history. Analyzing stone chemical signatures that was traded (made into tools, points, etc.) can be useful. How did they date the age of the rocks?
@@NDN451 based on what? so white people just popped into existence from being in a northern climate, huh? then explain why Inuit are still Asian and haven't turned the least bit "white" yet.
false hypothesis, even they did they were australoid like. modern europeans came from the middle east 7,000 years ago from the spread of farming and spread light skin then.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
It's not just the similarity between the stone technology from east coast USA and Europe. The enormous bifaces which had no practical purpose it seems were found buried in caches in both places as well. Speculation is that they were perhaps offerings before a hunting trip....you bury 5 or 6 of these huge and beautifully crafted points for good luck.
Whatever the case may be it is not just the same technology but the same ritual as well.
Dr. Stanford deserves way more recognition for his work which has provided such clear evidence.
May he rest in peace....i sincerely hope his work is being carried on dilligently and without bias.
Unfortunately political correctness is getting in the way of science. This is an interesting archaeological doscovery.
The academic establishment will cover up all of this truth
😂😂 yeah just because it kinda looks identical 😂
@@thunderwarrior1 No. Because a decision process in flintknapping is identical in many steps to arrive at such points. And the hypothesis includes many other kinds of evidence as well. Perhaps you could react more wisely if you actually studied the topic and look less ignorant.
@@forestdweller5581 you talk of ignorance and say there's a direct link between Two groups separated by time and distance. Ha! And that's not even bringing up the fluting
The Solutrean Hypothesis is more than just an "hypothesis" as more evidence of artifacts surface that correspond to the work already established.
Very interesting information. I too don't care who was in America first. Just knowing that many different cultures arrived here at different times is amazing.
I just read an article explaining why this hypothesis is wrong
@@MargaritaMagdalena yeah there's a lot of bias opinion pieces online. I used to base my opinions on such articles but when I actually looked at the evidence, I became convinced that the solutreans and early Americans are in some way connected. What that connection is is a mystery but I think this hypothesis tries to answer that.
It is interesting.
I too do not care who were the first. What infuriates me is the pc bias instead of truth, facts and evidence.
Solutrean logic:
I ate out of a bowl today and Bronze Age civilizations did, guess the ancient Greeks secretly crossed the Atlantic and arrived to Pennsylvania!
No solutrean DNA ever found in native Americans, no solutreans ever found in North America and the Kennewick man was found in Oregon. So much for “overwhelming” evidence.
Modern political narratives will never allow this to come to light.
😂😂 yeah critical race theory 😂
The Earth is 6000 years old and was created by a bearded dude in the sky. And he wants us to abhor LGBTQ, or he'll toast our cookies bigtime. Didn't you get the memo?
I think the only reason Smithsonian was allowed to skip this by was by depicting the solutreans as nonwhites
"A number of genes have been positively associated with the skin pigmentation difference between European and non-European populations. Mutations in SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 are believed to account for the bulk of this variation and show very strong signs of selection. A variation in TYR has also been identified as a contributor.
Research indicates the selection for the light-skin alleles of these genes in Europeans is comparatively recent, having occurred later than 20,000 years ago and perhaps as recently as 12,000 to 6,000 years ago."
You do know modern-day Europeans are not descendants of the Solutreans, right? They died out some time before the Mesolithic, around 17,000 years BP.
Present-day Europeans are relatively newcomers to Europe. Proto Indo-European speakers (what would become the Slavic, Germanic, Celtic, Italic, Greek, and Anatolian peoples) only arrived in Eastern Europe around 6000 years BP from the Pontic and Caspian steppe (the Kurgan Hypothesis). As they pushed into Europe, they either displaced or merged to various degrees with earlier Neolithic peoples. Genetic and cultural evidence show modern Europeans mostly descend from these Indo-European migrants, not from earlier Mesolithic and Neolithic populations. The only cultural remnant of these pre-Indo-European peoples, is the Basque language of Northern Spain.
In summary, we don't know the skin colour of the Solutreans, but seemingly how they're unrelated to present-day Europeans, they most likely did not look like them
@@GumaroRVillamil you completely discount the existence of Cro-Magnon-the source of Rh- blood.
Oh 100%
Exactly 👍
They say that due to the low water levels during the ice age that the salutreans only had half the distance to travel to get here, which we know they did.
It was quite a bit more than half. The continental shelves of North America and Europe that are now a few hundred feet deep do not extend more than a 100 miles and often less off the coasts. During the ice age these areas were dry land or glaciated. The Atlantic was still thousands of miles wide.
@Craig Dendy Not in the North Atlantic. Look at the ocean bottom maps. Far to deep. No near surface mounts or rises that during the Ice Age would have been above sea level. We also have no idea what type of boats, if any at all the Solutreans may have had.
I like(hate) how they cut out Columbus's name at the end.
(((They)))
', many thousands of years before _the Siberia to Alaska-land bridge crossing.'_
R.I.P Dennis Stanford.
Hyperboreans.
More likely Picts from West of the Black River.
Fascinating!
I found similar artifacts on the shore of the St Croix River in NW WI
Did they edit out Christopher Columbus' name at the end?
Yeah you caught that too.
LOL
', many thousands of years before _the Siberia to Alaska-land bridge crossing.'_
The Solutreans were blond and red-brown haired peoples from Northern Europe.
ScottAT: Your statement is nonsense. We do not have data from that far back, but what we do know for europe prior to farming says no.
What we know of the genetic makeup of the Europe's hunter-gatherers from 8,000 or year ago is that they were dark skinned and perhaps had blue eyes. But we sure do not know everything. It is believe that farming folk from either the middle east or even as far as Anatolia brought in farming; they had lighter skin needed to absorb sunlight to make Vit D. Farmers vs primitive hunters are often deficient in dietary Vit D is one explanation.
The people that strongly attack the solutrean theory do so claiming that the proponents are racists that are pushing that modern day populations of Europe have an ancient claim on the americans.
@ScottAT, I agree that the Solutreans were White Europeans with them having blonde, red, and brown hair. They came to AMERIKA first, not the so called "Native Americans", they are Siberians from Siberia, who came here second.
Many of there sites are gone,as well as Clovis and Even before that due to the Bolder fields that are all over Appalachia but are overgrown,in some places you can still find bolder fields
There is a pre-Clovis site here in Texas, that could completely destroy the 'Clovis First' theory.
@@springbloom5940 look at the biface of Hueyetlaco, predates sophisticated lithics technology the world wide!
the oldest sites are in brazil.
Did I miss something or did the end of the video elide the "before xyz"?
Thank you Bruce and Dennis! KEEP the SCIENCE of archaeology always moving forward. You will always be my archaeology heroes.
Nancy V. Williams Dennis Stanford passed away in April this year.
Everyone needs to look at Hueyetlaco lithics...nearly 300k yrs old...and then ask the question, where did the Solutrean come from?
The Atlantic ocean was a lot narrower back then do to sea floor spreading, it would have been a peace cake for the Solutreans
Hardly. The Atlantic at its most narrow was 2000 miles across -- and there's no evidence the Solutreans had boats. Asians could walk across the Bering Strait. Which do you think was easiest?
@@LCThompson The Bering Strait was covered in ice, so both would have had to cross long distances of ice.
The Bering Strait was dry land during the Ice Age. It became submerged as the ice melted -- after the first Americans had crossed it.
Sea floor spread! The Atlantic ocean "spread"s by a few centimeters/inches per year. Over the past 20,000 years the Atlantic has widened by about six miles. I don't think the Solutrean were thinking - OMG, that ocean is never going to this narrow again, we had better get going into the unknown just to see where we end up. If we don't do now that extra few inches next year is going to make it impossible to cross.
@@303Scott But the Bearing Straight's narrowest point today is about 50 miles. In the past it was narrower or dry. Not to hard to cross versus the several thousand miles that separated Europe from North America.
The Asians may have actually boated along the edge of the land and glaciers into the New World.
Neat! Sounds like the Vikings might be supplanted. I think we often underestimate ancient humans' skills, technology and tenacity.
6 years later and they’re still arguing
So Europeans arrived in America first, so the conquistadors just reclaimed it.
History is written by the winner well never know the truth
That happens when people only study science based on (blind) racial fanaticism.
@@2loaves388 we ARE the winners, lol
@@AustinKoleCarlisle you don't know that
Look around you. We have a lot of winning left to do
Stone tools being similar isn't evidence of anything except that stone tools were a natural development.
It's culture and bones that have to match and they have no evidence of either.
Ancient man was pragmatic and developed tools based on what works, culture is art and that would be more sensible to compare because art and culture carry style and stylizations are not practical but aesthetic and can be used to identify cultural similarities.
But tools that look the same across the world are probably so because they are made with the primary purpose that they must work the same. hence why an Adze looks the same no matter where you go.
It's all about functional architecture and for people to think that Native Americans need Europeans to travel to America to teach them what is natural, functional architecture is both narrow minded and biased and even a bit insulting to presume that a race of people couldn't comprehend the basic and sensible technologies.
@I understand that but Boomer OK
The bog mummies from Florida do though
@@acaydia2982 dna doesnt lie and they didnt have caucasoid dna
Actually it is evidence that the two people are somehow connected. Same shape, size, width, and the way the tools were made and used all point to there being a derivative connection. I think more work needs to be done before we know what actually happened but to dismiss this hypothesis by saying "coincidence" is very asinine on your part.
It's very poor phrasing from the researcher at minute 2:00 "Could this have happened accidentally? We argue no, it absolutely couldn't be unrelated". No serious researcher should be dealing with absolutes, not unless they have several different avenues of evidence. Stone tools are not "absolute" proof. They can very easily move between sediment layers, specially in places heavily affected by water such coasts, rivers, and glacier paths. Or like OP mentioned, they could simply be examples of convergent cultural evolution. Other types of evidence to confirm this hypothesis should include human fossils, more artifacts, genetics, and possibly even linguistics.
As of yet, there are no reliably dated human remains from 20,000 years ago in the Americas. If the Solutreans made it to the Americas, they also died out here before encountering humans coming from Asia, a they left no genetic evidence in surviving native American populations. So far, multiple types of evidence heavily favor the Beringia hypothesis, unlike the very sparse evidence for the Solutrean/Atlantic hypothesis. Until more evidence is found, such absolute statements should be avoided.
All you need to know is that Columbus isn't the first.
Explore Golgumbaz!
I made tools for 40 + years. Many times there are parallel advancements in toolmaking without contact between the two(Or more).
That's a possibility, but what are the odds that it would happen just by chance at the exact same time on opposing coasts of different continents, one of which was previously not thought to have been inhabited at the time? That would mean that a group of people unrelated to the Solutreans would have had to move into North America from somewhere other than Europe, at just the same time as the Solutreans were expanding in Southern Europe, and then very quickly develop the exact same toolmaking techniques, without leaving any similar artifacts in the location they came from. That seems unlikely enough that alternate explanations should at least be given a serious look.
I don't think the Solutrean Hypothesis is completely correct, particularly since the DNA evidence doesn't support it, but I think it is pointing in the correct direction. If you look at the DNA of modern Native Americans, it's all pretty similar except for the groups in the Great Lakes area. Their DNA most closely matches with the modern Druze people in the Levant, and appears to have diverged from there around 20k years ago. My guess is, a group of folks from the Middle East started migrating across Southern Europe around that time, eventually ending up in Solutrean territory, where they learned various toolmaking skills, and then continued heading west, across the ocean following the edge of the pack ice, ultimately arriving in North America with both Druze DNA and Solutrean-looking tools. That would explain the both genetic and archaeological evidence, and the timing lines up perfectly too.
With the same length, shape, and width and made with the same technique and used for the same purpose? Doubtful. This is very compelling evidence that the solutreans and early Americans are connected.
@@mimigigi1061 Not doubtful at all. Many a person is working on a "secret invention" and someone else gets to the patent office first. The two replies do not have inventive minds. These early people were working in stone. The only advancement is improvement of materials or technique. I have found arrowheads and spear points made from really poor materials. Quartz, some type of very hard stone that resembles granite, local stone, and even limestone. The most popular in the area I grew up in was jasper, but there was actually an Indian jasper quarry close by. You have to remember that raw materials were rarely exposed as they are today. Some of the jasper points I found had very fine serrated edges. Access to the better materials may have had a lot to do with advancement.
@@oldgoat1890 that's a false analogy. The reason why two different people can invent the same thing in today's world is because the world is more connected. Yes the two inventors in your example can invent two things without meeting each other but both rely on the same knowledge and scientific community to predicate their ideas on. There are tool patterns shared between the solutreans and early americans and that cannot be ignored.
this is the only evidence allowed to be talked about publicly...
Very interesting 🙏🏻
I will argue that this occurred during Pangaea.
The amount of ignorance in the comments is astounding. First of all, most academics who support the Solutrean Hypothesis do NOT think they were white Europeans, but brown skinned nomads who were more closely related to modern Middle Easterners than to whites (even the video itself depicts the Solutreans as dark skinned). So to all the Eurocentrists claiming the Solutreans were white, you're the ones making this about race, not the academics who support (or oppose) the Solutrean Hypothesis.
Frankly, you remind me of the uneducated laymen who think the Neanderthals' closest descendants are Europeans based merely on some sort of superficial resemblance between the two. In reality, East Asians possess even more Neanderthal DNA in their genome than Europeans do and thus lay a greater claim to Neanderthal ancestry than most Europeans ever could, but of course Eurocentrists are too obsessed with race and physical appearance to realize this.
Secondly, most academics do not corroborate the Solutrean Hypothesis, so stop pretending like it's finally been proven just because a few big name proponents have supported it. By and large, the Solutrean Hypothesis remains unsupported by scientific consensus and is overwhelmingly rejected by the archaeological community.
Were these peoples Asiatic or sub-Saharan African? If not then they are white. Someone from Bangladesh is just as white as someone from Norway.
@@dperry19661 What?! No we're not, that's an entirely different ethnicity. First of all south asian people are brown or at least have olive undertones (different melanin genetics)
@@starrix4712 Well i'm not ethnically lots of different european groups but that doesnt mean squat. You are confusing race with cultural grouping. Lets consider those who are english and those who are scott. One is germanic and one is celtic with separate culture and language and history, but according to your logic of different racial groups also. There are 3 races with varoius sub-groups. A swede is the same race as an arab or an indian.
@@dperry19661 South Asian isn't one - or several - groups though, unlike common European classifications e.g. "Germanic," "Swede". And then what is the reason for high amount of melanin (as well as type) in the majority of south asians? They are mixed with many races - dravidian based race mainly, and then there could also be mongoloid, australoid, and then perhaps only in some also some caucasian. South Asian people are not one race or even ethnic mix unlike many other places, but a melting point of different races and mixed complexes instead. There is no one depiction of a South Asian, so you have to show someone very specifically if you want to use the white label.
But even if part of that mix has a great amount of caucasian, that doesn't make them "white" as you put. That makes them mixed. *White* means near 100% caucasian (and as it's an informal term, it most importantly means non-melanin showing).
BS
Been waiting for this to finally be published. What about the red paint people ?
Il y a de l'écriture proto-berbère gravé sur des rochers sur le bord de l'eau à Liverpool, Nouvelle-Écosse, Canada. L'écriture correspond à l'écriture proto-berbère et est identique à des écritures / graphes sur l'île El Hierro des îles Canaries. Serait-ce possible que les Solutréens soient les ancêtres des Ibéromaurusiens ??? J'ai la preuve que les Ibéromaurusiens traversaient l'atlantique...
I’d love to at the very least disprove “first nations” people were first but instead were actually 2nd or 3rd nations people, and then we can get rid of that garbage term
Well I'm Native & My People we're FIRST on Europeon Soil & In FACT ANY SOIL
@@CHUCKBALLER2024 everyone's people was first if you go back far enough. Everyone's related to each other. Twice.
Dude all the skeletons, the ones that look European, African are native in dna, the natives were diverse people.
If they endlessly repeated overshot chipping, they would be left with nothing. C’mon, think about what you’re saying; this is supposed to be educational.
I'm just not sure why it's so far fetched that both separate civilizations couldn't have accidentally created near or exactly identical weapons and such by chance. It's human nature to evolve and people are smart so in my mind, 2 separate civilizations without a crossing of the Atlantic was very likely and not really crazy to think since neither culture was lacking in intelligence. Just chance and I mean human nature at that. Cool video though.
And nowhere else in the world? You can’t be serious? Don’t give up your day job.
@@NightowlProductionsGroup That is very possible. Look at the wheel. It was known in the New World by the Aztecs, completely independent of knowledge from Europe.
... or some native american made that spearhead.
Doesn't look like a way too unique of an idea.
Actually, the overshot bi-face fluted point was revolutionary technology compared with earlier stone tools. It has no comparable type in Asia.
Orthodoxy calls it the Clovis point and uses it to establish 14,000 years as the appearance of humans in the Americas, from Asia. Newer evidence shows the Solutreans may well have brought this style to the Americas from Western Europe. We constantly learn new things about the global migration of early modern humans. We must be open-minded.
@@Nomatternow We must be, indeed.
Now tell me, which is the more outlandish theory of the following two
A- Iceage solutrians reached Europe.
B- Iceage Americans made that spearhead.
@Raziel\m/ So you are saying iceage Americans and iceage selutreans had vast differences in their "technologies"?
Ego
You are showing your stupidity. If it was so easy why does it not show up more. Why are there the earliest points in the Eastern US, and later show up in the more western regions. I guess you believe everything Trump says also.
Were they still there when the Siberian Americans got there?
Call it Flintknapping here in Cherokee Country...
Osdv ✌️😁
@@shonpieters9609 - Various types of flint knapping to include over pressure and pressure flaking.
Cherokee county oklahoma??
This has been on PBS NOVA a couple of times now. It's something like indirect percussion using a tool with a notch on it, perhaps a worked deer antler. I've heard that there has been DNA analysis of some of the aboriginal tribes in Canada and certain of those have Solutrean DNA. Politically incorrect, eh? Science and scientific facts are often politically unpopular or politically incorrect.
ember Jesus loves you all
Awesome!
Modern-day Europeans are not descendants of the Solutreans (first wave of today's Europeans are from Anatolia, then near-Central Asia and from east of Finland); too, brown hair and brown eyes. The northern Europe mutation of blonde hair-blues eyes has not occurred as of yet.
No, the missing wording at the end of this short is not *Columbus.* '.., many thousands of years before _the Siberia to Alaska-land bridge crossing.'_
The implication of this title is that scientists "expect" Solutreans in North America, but now we know they were here earlier than "expected". Absolute rubbish. The VAST majority of archaeologists do think the points were similar but unrelated. Shame on you Smithsonian.
Look at Clovis' nuclear DNA and compare it with other archaic samples... you can do this at Gedmatch.
@@troybonner91 Done and agreed. Anzick1 has closer European links than his presumed ancestor palaeo-eskimo. The only sample is post younger dryas, however; much later than 20kya.
A legitimate claim, your response as an elitist is expected. Too much evidence to be scoffed at.
R1b is found in Europe and in the Eastern USA, coincidence?
The very very first people were a few basque hunter gatherers
What about the genetics? Your denying science, shame on you for your elitist antiwhite agenda.
Shame on you indeed.
Phoenicians !
20k years late
They brought their "overshot flaking technique," but they forgot to bring their skeletons. Got it.
Checkout the wind over big people in Florida. They are so well preserved that they still have their last meals in them! And they are said to be caucasian using dna. Btw I do believe that they are more than 7 thousand years old .
Windover bog people DNA is not Caucasian.
Well, there's the thing. There are bones and skeletons they could test that were found with the spear heads, but the Native American tribes that hold them refuse to let anyone run any tests to prove their origins.
@@gothnate lol are they jealous? Jk but do the native tribes believe these remains are their relatives ?
@@Hirohito_iLoveYou A lot of them do believe they're ancestors. Since there's no proving it, everyone has to take them at their word.
So now every aboriginals who made perfect similar structures are all now related ?? That’s BS 😬
You need to learn a few things before you comment.
What do you mean?
Randall Carlson, is getting it right.
I agree the two traditions must be connected, Solutrean in the Old World and the New. There is a Solutrean Shaped thin as heck biface at 11,300 feet in the Uinta Mountains, 14cm long and bipointed-Solutrean Style-, heat treated purple quartzite, amazing workmanship, that still lies where it has been for 13,500 years, like those in this video, and none of the archaeologists seem to care enough to collect it or do any research on it. It is next to an icefield and has three discarded preforms with it. One of them 17cm long has two large overshot flakes as Bradley talks about. The other two are round dinner-plate like tear drop shaped preforms shaped like those in the Fenn Cache. For that reason I think the point is a Clovis preform, but it is bi-pointed and 3 inches wide, like a Solutrean. The ocean adapted early culture would explain why we also find Clovis in Venezuela.
So....You Find Some Spear Points on a Beach that washed up on a old Tuna , Whale , Shark = new first people ....BS
jon b the first people in the America’s were the Africans. Hence to all the African things found in souther America. Then it was the Natives who took over all the America’s. From Canada to South America. Vikings only ever reached Iceland? The top of Canada? They never really explored the place.
Chuckballer, lol I hope you're joking because that's not how archaeology works. The same tool sith the same manufacture technique and style was found in both America and in solutrean excavations.
@@mimigigi1061 PROVE IT
@@CHUCKBALLER2024, I'm pretty sure the video just proved it. It was pretty explanatory.
@@CHUCKBALLER2024, it's not my fault that you didn't pay attention to the video.
Solutrean HYPOTHESIS
Maybe the Native Americans made their way to Europe.
I’ll be honest, I’m surprised the Smithsonian has left this video up. Modern genetics has put the final nail in the coffin of this perennially dubious theory.
then please explain Haplogroup X. keep in mind that pretty much ALL Clovis people were literally wiped out from the Younger Dryas Impact circa 12.9k years ago.
@@AustinKoleCarlisle theres a whole article on this:
“The idea that haplogroup X2a is derived from an ancient trans-Atlantic migration to the Americas has been repeatedly considered - and rejected - by anthropological geneticists over the last two decades (Brown et al. Citation1998; Fagundes et al. Citation2008; Reidla et al. Citation2003; Smith et al. Citation1999, 2005). However, we revisit it here because it continues to be discussed and because recently published genomic data from ancient and contemporary North Americans help clarify the population history of North America and the likely history of this haplogroup.”
Raff, Jennifer A., and Deborah A. Bolnick. "Does mitochondrial haplogroup X indicate ancient trans-Atlantic migration to the Americas? A critical re-evaluation." PaleoAmerica 1.4 (2015): 297-304.
What about continental drift?
Continents move too slow. They have virtually been exactly where they are throughout human history
Continental dift/plate tectonic is far too slow. Since about 20,000 years ago, the Atlantic has widened about 16,000 feet.
Actually, during the ice age the oceans were up to 400 feet lower, so the land shapes were different and many ancient civilisations ruins are now under water.
@Dave Oneplus Humans = Europeans + Asians. Semitic people are in between those two groups. Blacks never went to Europe, America, or Asia.
The Solutrean culture ended 17,000 years ago. The oldest Clovis points date from 13,500 years ago. How is it possible that the Solutreans had any influence on the Clovis people?
The Solutreans supposedly crossed the Atlantic Ocean on boats, but we have no evidence that the Solutreans had boats.
The closest genetic matches of American Indians with Old World people is with East Asian and Siberian peoples -- not the people of Europe.
where did haplogroup X come from?
@@Robstone-p6x yet the concentration is highest in...Eastern North America?
@@AustinKoleCarlisle The X clade in eastern North America is a different subclade than the European X. Thus, not closely related.
No ! That is not true. The 8000 year old peat bog bodies found in Windover Florida. They have been found to have DNA strongly linked to Europe. The story is on TH-cam. If they haven't taken it down. Gee ! I wonder why they would do that?
@@AustinKoleCarlisle It doesn't matter because it is X2a that is in the New World not X. Research shows they are not related directly.
Clovis point.
They do look the same, don't they? So, who says Clovis technology was not borrowed from the Soleutreans? My point: Bearing Strait Technology was that of very small points aka micro lithes - contrary to Clovis or as an additional example the Folsom point, which came after the Clovis technology.
I'm not an archaeologist, nor am I a physical anthropologist. I took one class of anthropology and one class of Anthropology in the pursuit of my Engineering degree. Anthropology was an interest since I was a Sophomore in High School, so I have some knowledge. During my 20 year Naval career I spent three years on the ice in the Beaufort Sea, and in the environs of Ellesmere Island, and Greenland. I think on survival terms alone, I'm pretty well versed.
Would that mean
Natives = solutreans + eastern asian migrants ?
One theory is that the Asiatics slaughtered the Solutreans when they eventually met. It's a common theme throughout all of pre-Columbian America.
Smitz as if Columbus didn’t f*cking continue the slaughter at even higher rates gtf
@@fabix6868 guess he got revenge then huh. Now go cry.
@@smitz137
It wasnt true but its time for repeating it
We not from Europe stop the Insanity Karen
To illustrate how far fetched the Solutrean Hypothesis is, it postulates that the Solutreans journeyed 4,000 miles across the Atlantic Ocean in boats -- when in fact we have no evidence that the Solultreans had boats.
This theory has as many holes in it as Swiss cheese. It's disgraceful for the Smithsonian to be expounding a fringe theory. I don't have any problem with people explaining the Solutrean Hypothesis (it's not credible enough to be called a theory), but the presentation should not be one-sided and biased as this is. The chronological and genetic evidence is all against the Solutrean's getting to the Americas.
I agree the Solutrian hypothesis is just that flimsy at best but, You say " when in fact we have no evidence that the Solultreans had boats. " that is true but I wouldn't expect to find a lot of boats hundreds of meters above sea level at the time which was ~110 meters lower than at present. Also the most impressive artifact found was dredged up from quite deep water off Chesapeake Bay. It would be interesting but nearly impossible to explore that area more fully.
modern humans couldn't have possibly made boats, but we're told that monkeys floated on pieces of wood across the oceans?
Their is genetic evidence. The 8000 year old peat bog bodies found in Windover Florida. Studies revealed strong DNA links found fin European populations. This hard science based vedio has been taken off TH-cam. Gee ! I wonder why ?
@Craig Dendy I would question the idea the stones have the same chemical signatures.
How did they date the stones to be 10,000 years old?
@Craig Dendy Having a bit of a geology background I can assure you that yes rocks, ores , metals chemical signatures can be determined and can be used in different ways, not the least of which is to determine where they came from. This is helpful in archaeology to determine where stone that were traded came from and thus showing the extent of trade routes.
So just comparing rocks does not tell us much about human history. Analyzing stone chemical signatures that was traded (made into tools, points, etc.) can be useful.
How did they date the age of the rocks?
The mental gymnastics involved to make this seem rational is painful
Explain?
wow im early
Propaganda
That was nebulous.
"This make my head hurt"
So sad that Smithsonian continues to promote this nonsense. Don't they care about their credibility at all?
there is no genetic evidence that this has happended.
Haplogroup X.
@@AustinKoleCarlisle haplogroup x2a is not derived from the ones in europe. the soulutreans had haplogroup
U
@@NDN451 the X haplogroups are related.
Boring!..Boo!! Booooooh!
Solutreans were white and were here first. Period.
whites did not exist until 8,000 years ago.
@@NDN451 based on what? so white people just popped into existence from being in a northern climate, huh? then explain why Inuit are still Asian and haven't turned the least bit "white" yet.
false hypothesis, even they did they were australoid like. modern europeans came from the middle east 7,000 years ago from the spread of farming and spread light skin then.