Actually the Bison front bumper has less clearance than the ZR2. Lower control arms are made by DSSV, if you look you can see it cast in the arm. After market coilovers and UCA's improve a already great front suspension. Sway bar removal improves off road performance, paired with the right springs and bump stops you eliminate any body sway at hiway speeds. Move those rear shocks to the outside of the frame.
@@lunamaria1048 Why is that? Because I moved my shocks outboard and gained a ton of rear axle clearance, or because I use better bump stops (Timbrens in the rear) or because I removed my front sway on my personal vehicle (and not someone elses)?
@@Bearded_SARTECH Your username was tagged by accident, because you were the last comment. Either way, the ZR2 works great, gets lots of travel and doesn't need things moved around or disconnected. My fiance has had a ZR2 for a year now and it is the most off road capable mid-sized pickup we have ever had. I see guys like you butchering 4x4s all the time. I have a feeling that the engineers that developed this truck knew what they were doing and why.
@@lunamaria1048 Wow! Guys like me? Butchering? I agree, that in stock form, it is still the most capable mid-size out there, especially for the money, hence I bought one. I also agree, it is the most capable vehicle YOU have ever owned. You have not met me, my truck, or seen my "butcher" work. There quite a few pics of a Search and Rescue ZR2 out there on the internet. While I know the butcher type stuff you refer to, I'm not that guy. The engineers have many compromises they must make to sell a OEM vehicle. NHSA, EPA, not to mention cost effectiveness over mass production. Your logic is all stock vehicles are as good as they get...and with that, we would all still be driving Model Ts.
@@DanEdmunds yeah.. but not a problem. Hopefully you’re back again. Looking forward to seeing more of these professional reviews for various brands and models. 🙏 For sure like always take care doing them and consider safety first.😉👌 Also some reviews by off-roading would be a nice shot in your future plan, maybe after ending this episode.
Dan - was hoping you would put the Bison score up on your scoreboard to see the comparisons with the other vehicles you already tested. Please add that final touch in the future if possible! thanks
Very great informative video. Thank you for doing this. I’m in the process as we speak of buying my 2nd ZR2. Going to the dealer tomorrow. I’m just not sure if I should go regular ZR2 or the ZR2 Bison. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you. Mj
2020 strikes again. So much stuff happened behind the scenes that I never expected. I think I can maintain my previous pace now - or at least come close.
I really like the in depth review on the ZR2. It's nice to see something different than just the run of the mill dealership review/test drive. Thanks for the content! Keep em coming!
Thanks! More subscriptions and views makes it easier for me to get vehicles, so tell your friends, post links on forums, social media, etc. I've got a long way to go to get Engineering Explained and Smoking Tire levels of viewers, but I think I offer something unique.
You should think that with a “heavier duty” type truck there would be some manual grease fittings on the front steering and suspension areas but from what I see by your vid at the beginning when you took the front tire off, I was sad to see only sealed ball joints
It's like that with the regular ZR2, as weel - though not an AEV wheel in that case. I expected it here because we had a long term R2 diesel at my last job, and I had a flat in Arizona headed cross-country to a Jeep event. But I had to change the tire at the side of the road, and noticed -- and appreciated -- the matching wheel on the spare.
Ramp travel index does not itself tell you much. The point is how high off the ground you can get that front tire. I have a 97 Cherokee it has an rti of 512 but only gets that front tire 17 inches off the ground. So your lower score of 501 is worse, yet you can get over an obstacle 22 inches high to my 17.
den I want to see the Toyota tundra trd pro on that ramp and also the ford raptor. those are the ones I want to really see.. pls do those two trucks for us . thank you
I have driven ZR2 gas and diesel versions extensively. I like both, but would lean diesel if only for the off-road range. It's pretty effortless, too, and the diesel's MPG is easier to beat in real-world driving than the gas engine's. If you're doing payback calculations on the price, the diesel's mpg advantage is 1-2 mpg better in real life than it appears on the window stickers if you compare ZR2 diesel EPA combined to ZR2 gas EPA combined. It has to do with torque and how it fits better with the way people drive. As for the vs TRD Pro argument, I do like the Toyota. Visibility out over the corners of the hood is much better off-road. It has more clearance underneath, and the rear shock placement is much better. The bed is way better, in my opinion: lower sides for easier loading, tie-down rails with cleats, a composite box that never needs a liner and has a built in power socket, lower tailgate liftover height even though the spare is tucked up MUCH higher and is less likely to drag the ground -- a neat trick. (I have had a couple ZR2 spare ground-outs off-road, and neither one was much fun. But the engine does kinda suck (it's reliable, but not as responsive). Fuel economy is just OK. They fixed the seat in 2020 (or 2019) by adding a power height adjustment, but some still don't like the the seating position. Tacoma resale value is through the roof, though, and there are tons of parts because the suspension hard points go back something like 15 years.
I absolutely love my diesel ZR2. It's an 2018, I have 44K miles on mine with zero issues. The range is great, especially considering diesel is barely more than regular unleaded right now. The low end torque on the trail is also great, it climbs like a mountain goat. Plus, a baby diesel in a mid size off-road pickup is just cool.
Hmm. I have not had access to the Edmunds.com ZR2 in over a year. That one was a 2017, so it would have been the same as yours. But, yes, I am seeing pictures that back that up. Now I need to track down when the change was made. And why?
There are 3 spool valves. 2 you talked about and a third that sits inside the piston so when the piston goes beyond the normal operating window like you could off-road the 3rd valve with stiffer springs is engaged to further dampen the shock. They loved having people drive at 40mph off steep drops to show the dampening effect of the spool valves when they revealed the ZR2. They also indicate that because the system uses spool valves instead of deflection disks it is far less likely to be effected by heat. The viscosity of the oil changes as it's heated whereas the compression doesn't change. Also the movement of the oil via the valves routes the oil back into the dampener along the exterior of the housing allowing for some heat to be released. th-cam.com/video/Q3iGlLmdRd4/w-d-xo.html
New subscriber. Enjoyed your video. Also like the Bison package. Agree with you 100% regarding the shock mount sentiment on the rear diff. Just plain wrong. 🖖🏾🇿🇦
I've had that for a long time, and I don't think Snap-On makes it anymore. It is my favorite tool, and I don't use impacts in large part because of this 1/2"-drive breaking bar/speed wrench. I've gotten to the point where I can torque wheels to 90% of their value by feel, then I finish them off with a click-type torque wrench.
As a purpose-built off-road SUV with a shorter wheelbase, it ought to be! The ZR2 is quite impressive, but it is adapted from a pickup with a longer wheelbase that holds it back.
Efficiency is another way to look at the motion ratio. If the ZR2's wheel moves up an inch -- taking the knuckle and the outer ball joint up a like amount -- the spring will compress 80% of that (0.8 inches) and the stabilizer bar will deflect 85% of that (0.85 inches). Their mountings are less than 100% efficient, and so you will have to fit a stiffer spring and a larger bar to get the effect you want at the tire contact patch.
The rear bumper is awesome. I agree. I’m not a fan of the front bumper. ZR2 + Bison rear bumper + something for the front (not sure yet) + AEV skids is how I’m going with mine.
@@jayl2331 I went with Relentless Fab for my rear bunper, it's a better bumper than the Bison version, plus has the swingarm for my spare and extra fuel. I did do full AEV skids, they've saved a lot of damage on my truck. I also have frame mounted sliders that get used frequently.
The LC scores higher mainly because this is a long-wheelbase pickup. BoF SUVs almost always score higher because of their shorter wheelbase. But this does cost half as much, and you can fit a diesel engine to one of these.
@@DanEdmunds Maybe Edmunds should test out a Callaway supercharged variant, might be more fun than the diesel. Even comes with a warranty that parallels manufactures.
Actually the Bison front bumper has less clearance than the ZR2. Lower control arms are made by DSSV, if you look you can see it cast in the arm. After market coilovers and UCA's improve a already great front suspension. Sway bar removal improves off road performance, paired with the right springs and bump stops you eliminate any body sway at hiway speeds. Move those rear shocks to the outside of the frame.
Bingo👍
@@Bearded_SARTECH Uhhhh I never want you working on my truck.
@@lunamaria1048 Why is that? Because I moved my shocks outboard and gained a ton of rear axle clearance, or because I use better bump stops (Timbrens in the rear) or because I removed my front sway on my personal vehicle (and not someone elses)?
@@Bearded_SARTECH Your username was tagged by accident, because you were the last comment. Either way, the ZR2 works great, gets lots of travel and doesn't need things moved around or disconnected.
My fiance has had a ZR2 for a year now and it is the most off road capable mid-sized pickup we have ever had.
I see guys like you butchering 4x4s all the time. I have a feeling that the engineers that developed this truck knew what they were doing and why.
@@lunamaria1048 Wow! Guys like me? Butchering?
I agree, that in stock form, it is still the most capable mid-size out there, especially for the money, hence I bought one.
I also agree, it is the most capable vehicle YOU have ever owned. You have not met me, my truck, or seen my "butcher" work. There quite a few pics of a Search and Rescue ZR2 out there on the internet. While I know the butcher type stuff you refer to, I'm not that guy.
The engineers have many compromises they must make to sell a OEM vehicle. NHSA, EPA, not to mention cost effectiveness over mass production. Your logic is all stock vehicles are as good as they get...and with that, we would all still be driving Model Ts.
I’m buying a ZR2 CO now. So cool.
get one yet? been waiting for mine "in transit" for the last month lol
Ohhh finally you’re back. Story of the man and his lovely ramp.😉
I'm sorry I was away so long. 2020, amiright?
@@DanEdmunds yeah.. but not a problem. Hopefully you’re back again. Looking forward to seeing more of these professional reviews for various brands and models. 🙏 For sure like always take care doing them and consider safety first.😉👌
Also some reviews by off-roading would be a nice shot in your future plan, maybe after ending this episode.
Gotta love the Chevrolet Colorado ZR2 performance.
Dan - was hoping you would put the Bison score up on your scoreboard to see the comparisons with the other vehicles you already tested. Please add that final touch in the future if possible! thanks
I have got that planned for a follow-up you'll see soon! You'll understand why I waited when you see it.
take note 501 with sway bar connected. love my ZR2
It's a good score for a pickup. No doubt.
Very great informative video. Thank you for doing this. I’m in the process as we speak of buying my 2nd ZR2. Going to the dealer tomorrow. I’m just not sure if I should go regular ZR2 or the ZR2 Bison.
Any input would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Mj
Those are king shocks wich are the best now days and very famous for a very smoth drive on off roads
He’s back finally
2020 strikes again. So much stuff happened behind the scenes that I never expected. I think I can maintain my previous pace now - or at least come close.
@@DanEdmunds glad to hear it we’ve all been there.
I really like the in depth review on the ZR2. It's nice to see something different than just the run of the mill dealership review/test drive. Thanks for the content! Keep em coming!
Thanks! More subscriptions and views makes it easier for me to get vehicles, so tell your friends, post links on forums, social media, etc. I've got a long way to go to get Engineering Explained and Smoking Tire levels of viewers, but I think I offer something unique.
Great video, expecting more indexes from various off-road vehicles.
You should think that with a “heavier duty” type truck there would be some manual grease fittings on the front steering and suspension areas but from what I see by your vid at the beginning when you took the front tire off, I was sad to see only sealed ball joints
nice video. what about re-running the ramp test with the front anti sway bar disconnected? thanks
I was waiting from the last 5 month plz upload faster
Wish you were closer. Would love to show you my gental ZR2 mods and get your opinion on the increased abilities of the suspension.
New fan! love your breakdown of vehicles
and those are nice cast LCA's...usually they're cheap stamped steel
Stunned that the spare is in fact a fifth AEV wheel and not a basic steelie.
It's like that with the regular ZR2, as weel - though not an AEV wheel in that case. I expected it here because we had a long term R2 diesel at my last job, and I had a flat in Arizona headed cross-country to a Jeep event. But I had to change the tire at the side of the road, and noticed -- and appreciated -- the matching wheel on the spare.
Shelby GT500 please.......or even a ZR1/ ZL1 1LE! Your channel rocks
Ramp travel index does not itself tell you much. The point is how high off the ground you can get that front tire. I have a 97 Cherokee it has an rti of 512 but only gets that front tire 17 inches off the ground. So your lower score of 501 is worse, yet you can get over an obstacle 22 inches high to my 17.
Can I ask where you got your speed handle breaker bar? I really like it.
Me, too. My favorite tool, by far. It's a Snap-on, but discontinued. They show up on Ebay now and again.
I just bought a 2021 Tacoma Pro. Lunar rock with manual. Want to bring your ramp up to the Bay Area?
Too hard to move this beast! It'd be easier for me to borrow a TRD Pro Tacoma.
@@DanEdmunds well if I end up heading south I will reach out for sure!!
I thought he kept a board comparing all the ramp scores from different vehicles
Yes, I do. But I'm saving it here. You won't have to wait long to see it again ... with this on it.
killer video. holy smokes.
den I want to see the Toyota tundra trd pro on that ramp and also the ford raptor. those are the ones I want to really see.. pls do those two trucks for us . thank you
I am super torn about the Bison vs a TRD Pro. I’m also torn about a diesel vs gas version. Thoughts?
I have driven ZR2 gas and diesel versions extensively. I like both, but would lean diesel if only for the off-road range. It's pretty effortless, too, and the diesel's MPG is easier to beat in real-world driving than the gas engine's. If you're doing payback calculations on the price, the diesel's mpg advantage is 1-2 mpg better in real life than it appears on the window stickers if you compare ZR2 diesel EPA combined to ZR2 gas EPA combined. It has to do with torque and how it fits better with the way people drive.
As for the vs TRD Pro argument, I do like the Toyota. Visibility out over the corners of the hood is much better off-road. It has more clearance underneath, and the rear shock placement is much better. The bed is way better, in my opinion: lower sides for easier loading, tie-down rails with cleats, a composite box that never needs a liner and has a built in power socket, lower tailgate liftover height even though the spare is tucked up MUCH higher and is less likely to drag the ground -- a neat trick. (I have had a couple ZR2 spare ground-outs off-road, and neither one was much fun.
But the engine does kinda suck (it's reliable, but not as responsive). Fuel economy is just OK. They fixed the seat in 2020 (or 2019) by adding a power height adjustment, but some still don't like the the seating position. Tacoma resale value is through the roof, though, and there are tons of parts because the suspension hard points go back something like 15 years.
I absolutely love my diesel ZR2. It's an 2018, I have 44K miles on mine with zero issues. The range is great, especially considering diesel is barely more than regular unleaded right now. The low end torque on the trail is also great, it climbs like a mountain goat. Plus, a baby diesel in a mid size off-road pickup is just cool.
Thanks so much guys. Really appreciate your replies
Great review of the suspension components! I agree with your assessment of the rear shock placement - Could have been done much better! Subscribed!!
Great show. Thanks
Those front calipers look different than my zr2 2018.
I think mine are 4 piston.
Hmm. I have not had access to the Edmunds.com ZR2 in over a year. That one was a 2017, so it would have been the same as yours. But, yes, I am seeing pictures that back that up. Now I need to track down when the change was made. And why?
That’s really weird about your front caliper configuration. My standard ZR2 has 4-piston fixed calipers up front. Is that just a Bison thing?
Not a Bison thing. I think a change was made to all ZR2s in 2020 or 2021.
@@DanEdmunds oh ok. That could be. Mine is a 2018.
There are 3 spool valves. 2 you talked about and a third that sits inside the piston so when the piston goes beyond the normal operating window like you could off-road the 3rd valve with stiffer springs is engaged to further dampen the shock. They loved having people drive at 40mph off steep drops to show the dampening effect of the spool valves when they revealed the ZR2. They also indicate that because the system uses spool valves instead of deflection disks it is far less likely to be effected by heat. The viscosity of the oil changes as it's heated whereas the compression doesn't change. Also the movement of the oil via the valves routes the oil back into the dampener along the exterior of the housing allowing for some heat to be released. th-cam.com/video/Q3iGlLmdRd4/w-d-xo.html
I’d like to see how the Tacoma trd pro suspension compares
I've measured one in the past -- before I shot video -- but I do plan on bringing one in soon.
I would also like to see a Tacoma TRD Pro. I bet it’s close or better.
lets flex out my home built basic suspension! im in central coast ca : )
Great informative video, thanks!
Land rover defender please.
It's on the schedule for January
A matching spare!
Yes. The regular non-bison ZR2 comes that way, too.
New subscriber. Enjoyed your video. Also like the Bison package. Agree with you 100% regarding the shock mount sentiment on the rear diff. Just plain wrong. 🖖🏾🇿🇦
Shock skids or 589 Fabrication relocation kit are the only options.
Relocation is a LOT if you don’t weld it yourself. Shock skids are $150 US.
Thanks for the feedback!
I wish I could find the same speed wrench you have
I've had that for a long time, and I don't think Snap-On makes it anymore. It is my favorite tool, and I don't use impacts in large part because of this 1/2"-drive breaking bar/speed wrench. I've gotten to the point where I can torque wheels to 90% of their value by feel, then I finish them off with a click-type torque wrench.
That's a 2021 Bison not a 2020, They've changed front calipers to 2 pistons instead of 4 for 2021 as well as those red tow hooks.
Yeah, I realized my mistake on the model year and corrected the title. I'm looking at a copy of the window sticker right now, in fact.
Looks like the land cruiser is still king though
As a purpose-built off-road SUV with a shorter wheelbase, it ought to be! The ZR2 is quite impressive, but it is adapted from a pickup with a longer wheelbase that holds it back.
Why do you call the effective arm length efficiency?
Efficiency is another way to look at the motion ratio. If the ZR2's wheel moves up an inch -- taking the knuckle and the outer ball joint up a like amount -- the spring will compress 80% of that (0.8 inches) and the stabilizer bar will deflect 85% of that (0.85 inches). Their mountings are less than 100% efficient, and so you will have to fit a stiffer spring and a larger bar to get the effect you want at the tire contact patch.
pro tip... sway bars connected dont allow for flex
Huh. That does look rad.
It's a nice turnkey rig.
A man of your means doesn’t have a cordless impact wrench? I’m astounded.
I do. I just prefer to do it this way. Less noise for the neighbors, and it doesn't set my dogs on edge.
It looks like it performs well but that front end does NOT look appealing.
The rear bumper is awesome.
I agree. I’m not a fan of the front bumper.
ZR2 + Bison rear bumper + something for the front (not sure yet) + AEV skids is how I’m going with mine.
@@jayl2331 I went with Relentless Fab for my rear bunper, it's a better bumper than the Bison version, plus has the swingarm for my spare and extra fuel. I did do full AEV skids, they've saved a lot of damage on my truck. I also have frame mounted sliders that get used frequently.
I saw it in person. I want one with no swing arm.
If u don't know the land cruiser is still more
That was too much math for me 😀
Land Cruiser scored 661 but costs 85K. But will outlast the Colorado.
The LC scores higher mainly because this is a long-wheelbase pickup. BoF SUVs almost always score higher because of their shorter wheelbase. But this does cost half as much, and you can fit a diesel engine to one of these.
@@DanEdmunds Maybe Edmunds should test out a Callaway supercharged variant, might be more fun than the diesel. Even comes with a warranty that parallels manufactures.
@@DanEdmunds But the LC also went higher up on the ramp too.
First
First