I'm coming up on (1) year of riding the Pivot Shuttle SL XTR and I agree 100% it is blistering fast. All of my buddies I ride with have full fat bikes, unlocked Levos, and one is a Luna with 160nm bafang motor. All of them go beyond the 20mph limiter. On some of the climbs I have to work hard to keep up, but when we get to flat or downhill sections good luck catching me on the Shuttle. We got to the point where they always want me to go 1st on the downhills we ride lol. Amazing bike when used for the right purpose. The team at Pivot have been incredible to deal with on a couple small issues and I also got to meet the guys from Fazua and they have been super helpful with some tuning. My bike is a large and weighs 40.5 lbs ready to ride. Hard to beat, literally. Expensive but it was worth every penny in my opinion. Great review!
I went with the 9.7 EXe. For myself, I wanted something that felt as close as possible to a regular bike, quiet, but that provided a little help. I might have checked into some other rides had this video come out before I jumped in, but I'm still pleased with the bike regardless. Thanks for putting this together, looking forward to future reviews.
@@JakeH-l4z I'm extremely happy with it. For me, it provides an excellent compromise between a full power e-bike and an acoustic bike, where I get just enough assist to make longer rides more enjoyable.
@@JakeH-l4z I love it. I ride it as much as I can, and only ride my regular bike about once a month or so as extra exercise. It's easily my favorite bike.
Exceptional work guys. In producing these it must take so much time and patience (and insect repellent!) It's massively appreciated and great to watch. 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
I have yet to break a chain on mine. I'm fairly confident most chains break because of shifting under load- and made even worse by the electric motor. Cycling and shifting fundamentals are essential for riding ebikes.
@@jmanswat2457 I have over 7,000 miles on my 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo and haven't ever broken a chain either. (4,300 miles on the original motor and 3,000 on replacement so far) I let off the pressure a bit before shifting. I have 2,000 miles on my SRAM XO 12 speed chain with no wear so far. I use Finishline Dry Lube on the chain after every ride if it's more than 20 miles. A lightweight ebike I'm interested in that is full power is the new Cannondale Moterra Carbon SL for $8,700. It's 43.4 lbs with a 600Wh battery and Shimano EP801 motor.
It would be really handy if you discussed the motors in a bit more detail. I used to have a Shimano EP8 powered e-bike and I really disliked how the power cut out really quickly at higher cadences. From memory I think it was any cadance over like 110rpm, the power would cut out completely which was horrible when you were going from a descent to a sudden climb and you shifted down to a lower gear pre-emptively so that when you hit the steep climb you could blast the cadance in a lower gear to get up the climb without losing too much speed with with the EP8 if I did this the motor would just go dead and would take way too long to kick back in so I would just lose all of my momentum. It was a horrible motor in that regard. It was quite torquey but didn't like high cadance so I think the EP8 was better suited to a lazy or old rider who wanted to just grind along at low cadance and let the bike do the work. I switched to the Bosch Gen 4 and it is SO much better. You can go up to insane cadance and the motor just keeps pushing. It really makes the experience that much better when you can blast a higher cadance for a couple of seconds in those scenarios and the motor is happy to comply. If I test rode any of these other motors and found that they behaved like the EP8 then it would be crossed off the list of potential purchases immediately.
I believe a key point for the SL ebikes that wasn't fully appreciated (or highly scored) here was weight and noise of the motor. The point of SL's is to be the closest Mt bike experience without it feeling like a motorcycle. To me this disqualifies the Giant entirely because of its 80nm motor. After some custom tuning I think most will find 55nm of torque to be plenty of power. I love how quiet my fuel exe is! Although that might come at the expense of efficiency (when compared to the pivot shuttle sl, which my friend has, Shuttle seems to get better range). I will also say that even with electric assistance, linkage and frame suspension kinematics still matter- which lends to the bikes perceived "speed". I can still tell the difference between my fuel exe and previously owned pivots. I will be getting a Pivot again in the future.
I didn’t like the one piece handlebars at first but they grew on my over time, now I really like them, however I wouldn’t pay that much for a set of handlebars (mine came with the bike).
I rode a full power ebike for a couple years and am curious how many of you would trade in your full power ebike for a lightweight and why? Thanks for the great content
Very tough call... With a range extender it's getting to be a closer decision but still a very tough one! I think its very much rider dependent but we think 75% of our crew will keep a good full power bike as of right now. 630-700 battery is great.
@@TheLoamWolf Is that due to how much longer the battery lasts or the extra power it puts out? I've never ridden full powers or SL's so i'm trying to gauge which direction to go.
@Isaac, it depends if you feel as and want to be a mtb-er. If you like the spirit and ethos of mtb-ing. If you want that in your life then, you'll like SL ebikes. If you don't care and all you want is big power uphill and big squishy on the downs, don't bother and keep your full fat ebike.
Really good review thanks guys. You have helped me limit my choice to the Giant or the Transition. I read that the Giant had an annoying habit of resetting the power settings after each ride. Do you know if this has been rectified?
Another decent review, thanks LW team. I believe these imposter/ebike lite/SL e-bikes are basically what we should expect emtb's in the near future. We will have lower weight bikes, with full power availability in an SL form factor, along with modular battery options to suit the rider's needs. There wont be a need to make a bike that is in between analog and and power assist, just a high quality emtb that allows it be setup based on the rider's desired experience. There is no reason we can't have a silent TQ sized motor with a sleek downtube, with a minimalist cockpit, that provides about a 700w peak/90+ ft/lbs of assist. That said..... I would like to see more info and demo's of all the "apps" and integration available in these type's of reviews, along with a deeper dive into the calibration possibilities that they offer. I don't think we can just ignore this aspect anymore and say whatever, the default settings are gtg and this is just how the bike rides. A "good" or properly configured calibration for a rider, can be the difference between loving and hating a bike.
On the questions asked: yes one-piece bar/stem setups need to go, along with integrated cables. On the chain issue, we need to look at possibly less gears and bigger beefier chains found on a 9-10 speed, or better yet internal gearbox, with belt drives possibly.
I’m looking at switching from a full power or should I say a full weight e-bike to an SL. I have a cube stereo hybrid 160 which is great when you take it into the hills where the chunky stuff is but most of my riding is pretty flat trails. I’m pretty fit and don’t need 85nm of torque with 700wh plus battery. I ride my cube in Eco mostly and have the torque set to 45nm. On steeper longer climbs I will move up to Tour+ which I have set at 60nm. Personally I think the biggest issue with full power e-bikes is that here in the UK, they are limited to 15.5mph. This is too low. It’s too easy to hit the limit on the flat and also on some gradients. You then feel the weight of the bike and it spoils the fun. I think an SL at around 19kg would feel a bit more lively and be less of a drag when you hit that limiter.
115-lb female rider, live in the Wasatch- it’s steep here! Been mtn biking forever - 35 years - and am ready to start using an SL on some of the steeper rides here. I like a playful, nimble short wheelbase climber with a mullet setup to flick around downhill corners & aspen trees. Eyeing the Specialized turbo levo expert carbon SL - the Giant Trance sounds awesome but heavier… and I’m worried about its range (I do longer rides). And 150mm travel in front is just fine. Advice?
Hey thanks for all the info as it helps for sure! Check out the newly released Ari Nebo Peak. The Levo SL isn’t super high on our list, it’s good and rides quite well when you don’t compare the drive unit and range head to head with others, but other bikes ride nearly as well, have more power, range and don’t cost as much!
Check out the new Cannondale Moterra Carbon SL. Full power Shimano EP8O1 motor with 600Wh battery and weighs 43.4 lbs and is $8,700 for a great component build. My current bike is a 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo that weighs about 54lbs. I would get the Cannondale for my next ebike as it has the high power and low weight combined. I look forward towards getting a lighter weight bike.
@@burnx45 The Moterra looks like a great bike! That’s a lot of power for the weight. I ordered my Ari Nebo Peak and should have it really soon. I think I’m going to love it! Their service has been awesome & their HQ is just right down the road, quite the busy hive in there :) Ari has a generous 30-day trial period so I’ll put it through its paces and report back!
Correct, we had just wrapped up the Shootout before the Heckler SL and it wasn't out yet or on our launch radar when we were filming our SL Shootout. We were saying it would have been a great bike to have there as it would have been a great contender.
Seems like these have similar battery issues as the earlier full strength eMTBs. Full strength eMTBs came with 500-600wh, but really benefit from the range boost when they started having 750-900wh options. These lower power eMTB seem to be coming with little 300-400wh batteries, but would really benefit from a 500-600wh option. The idea of an external range extender taking up my only water bottle location is a non-starter. If I'm out for a long adventure day to make use of the extender, I need the water. The lower power is likely fine for me. I'm only ever in eco or trail, never "Boost" on an EP8/900wh powered bike. I need the battery to be able to do some epic long days and adventures. In this roundup, I think the Orbea would be my only option. Thanks for the roundup!
The Turbo Levo SL is outrageously priced. I know Specialized make good quality bikes but this is just ridiculous. $13,500 NZD for a bike with a Fox 36 RHYTHM?!? They couldn't even give us the performance chassis? Are you serious, Specialized? What a slap in the face.
As a bigger rider ,205lbs, who rides a full fat now I'm considering a midweight e bike. The Giant has my attention. I like the Trek but at my weight I think I may burn through that battery to fast. I'm an Oregon rider too, Portland area. Sandy Ridge, Kloochy, Cold Creek, Hood River and syncline in the winter. How do you think the Giant would fare on those trails? Or would you recommend something else? Thanks. I've been home injured so watched the whole series and it was great.
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it. Hope you heal up quickly! Those are awesome spots to ride and the Giant with a range extender will definitely get you up quickest!! Plus at places like Sandy you can drop it off once drained and get a couple "lighter" laps or stash it for later in the day... 160mm fork upgrade could be dialed for you there. Same situation with Trek! 160 and range extender for sure. the added drive unit power will help with your weight though.
Rode a Relay (stock 29er, GX build) in Bellingham yesterday. 225# rider, 3000' of vert, 19 miles, 2 out of 5 battery bars left. I could see this being my only bike, and it would be awesome for Sandy Ridge, Syncline, and Post Canyon. Rode a Repeater the week before, liked it, but would gladly live with the lower power (but similar range) to benefit from a bike that can both play or plow, rather than just plow. With the Repeater, I'd have to keep my trailbike; with the Relay, I could see not needing it except as a spare.
As someone who owns the Orbea Rise and a Santa Cruz Hightower, I’m getting the Specialized Levo SL. I’ve ridden the new Heckler SL, the Pivot Shuttle SL, and the Levo. The Pivot is really light, but feels more trail than downhill. The Pivot is gorgeous in the desert sage color with Kashima coat. I was tempted to but it for the looks alone😂. The Heckler is nice, but honestly the Fazua system feels dull and seems to have a serious delay applying power. The Levo SL to me felt perfect. Just enough power help nicely with the climbs, but not so much that it sacrificed any playfulness downhill. The bike feels like a Porsche 911 on trails, and a Troohy truck downhill. A definite quiver killer.
Taking the rider's weight into consideration.....my 110lb girl rides the specialized levo SL mostly in eco(lowest) power, and kicks butt on the climbs. She refuses the high power settings as "uncontrollable" 😅
Great series! At the rate of ebike launches you'll have to do another round up in 6 months. Maybe do a series capping it at $8-9k/bike? Keep up the great work!
Great work on this series! I think this category is the gateway for those of use who started out on analogs but where life gets in the way of all day grind fests. For me, the ebike is a time machine, allowing more laps and more smiles. It also levels the playing field for those that are not as athletic. Not to feed into too much confirmation bias, but I bought a Relay PNW edition a few months ago after doing my own research and am so happy I did. You didn’t touch on my other use case for the Relay which is popping out the battery and hitting up the bike park. It’s so good!
Great roundup! Still looking forward to an in depth on the Heckler SL. I was all in on the Relay, but the lower builds are too heavy. The Heckler SL seems to fit the bill on the build I want. Looking forward to your take.
Thats the problem with so many of these test bikes. They get sent the top spec and by the time you get the "average" persons build, they are 5 pounds heavier
That’s right. To unlock the full potential, the power settings need to be bumped up in the app. Under controlled hill climb tests, the Levo SL has been as fast or faster than the 60 nm bikes.
I love your guys reviews. My only critique is that you test the highest end version of every bike. No one is buying those ones. I wish you would get the mid version of each one. If you buy a 10+ thousand bike in 2023 you are doing it wrong.
Unfortunately it’s all about what the companies send them. They all end up sending them their high end stuff. Pinkbike has talked about it in depth on their podcast
The problem with mid price comparison is the mixed bag of where costs were cut, one will have better brakes, the next better suspension etc. If it's all top spec then the review is about the frame and the part of the bike that won't get changed. Mid level reviews often end up describing which component ended up being the limit of the bike's performance, I can't stand them.
@Nugemart LOL, I think you mean a delayed response to an unusual spike in demand. I'm not aware of any industry that comes close to the level of customer focus and passion for the sport mountain biking has.
I've had the Specialized Levo SL 2023 for a few months now. Did a ton of research. Its a fantastic bike for 90% of things. As for the power comments... I think these guys are getting old and fat :) I'm 5'10", 185lbs and think Trail mode is cheating. :) That being said, I wanted a bike that didn't look like an e-bike. Only a couple of the bikes in this list fit that bill. My buddy has the Trek. The Trek is more stealthy / quieter, but has a bit less battery efficiency / range compared to the Specialized. If you want a super light, playful, fun, and poppy light e-bike that doesn't look like an e-bike, the Specialized is perfect. I can get ~30 miles on my local trails WITHOUT the range extender. I, personally, think it climbs super easily on Trail mode.... I don't even use the Power/Boost mode.
Scott Lumen seems to be for older riders (60+) that just stick to mellower trails, but could use the boost from the motor due to "getting older." I could see myself riding something like that once I'm retired. I probably won't be lapping jump lines or mega tech then. For all e-bikes I switched from full power (YT) to the Trek. The Trek provides "enough" power while remaining light and stealthy. I only want one bike and the Trek fits the bill for that. Cost is no objected I'd have a full power bike and an analog bike, but unfortunately cost is an object, so the mid-power bike covers most of the bases.
You might be surprised. I’m 67 and still love the tech and jump lines. The Lumen doesn’t interest me at all. The Transition would be my pick. I own a Fuel Exe with a 160 fork. A great bike but could use slightly more power.
I would have loved the Relay but went for the Shuttle SL back in February as I really needed something to get me back out after illness, having to remove the battery also put me off a bit. Glad I made a good choice as it was my first real experience of e-bikes (other than a trial on the Forestal that backs up everything you said). So far the Shuttle has done everything I could want . Quick blast on Rocket to 40 miles on breeze, gentle trails to full on Lake District epics. I've watched all the videos in this group and they are spot on, keep them coming.
Very different due to the travel and plus feeling suspension of the Transition vs the Heckler SL. We've not had enough time on Heckler SL, which is a very fun bike, but let's just say since we're not the biggest VPP suspension fans, it wouldn't have taken away the awards given for most of our crew. Still a rad and playful bike and in the right terrain, it rips!
Had an older levo sl with less power. Loved the bike and hated the motor. Would consider a kenevo with newer motor. Thought about relay, but at 49 pounds, I should just get a levo expert. Thanks for showing, look forward to the show.
Thanks for this perfect video, 1 week ago I did buy the specialized turbo levo sl carbon 2023 with the new 1.2 motor. Got it for 7100 dollars my bike shop made me an offer i couldent say no to. Had the first ride on it last day. And what a play full bike, for me the power is more than enough and on the downhill Parts the bike feels so good.
Coming from a stumpjumper evo and canyon torque:on cf8, I'm looking at a lightweight to eliminate the other 2 all together. From personal experience, I feel like 60nm tq and 38-48lb is the sweet spot... Any more torque and mtb tires hold you back. More weight and brakes become more an issue. The giant is the future... tunable power with more compact and efficient battery cells.
I Will be buying in this segment, possibly this fall. The decision will probably be between the Relay and Heckler SL. I have a Hightower and a Sentinel and assume some of the ride quality differences will extend to the e-bikes. The Sentinel is a clear winner in the gnar, but the Hightower is more balanced and what I’d choose for a long day of varied terrain. Both are great. I have a frame warranty issue starting with the Sentinel, and how Transition does or doesn’t handle it will probably be the deciding factor. The Shuttle SL would be a contender, but I can’t get past the steep-ish geometry, given the type of riding I’m going to be doing. I may still visit Tempe for a factory demo though.
After watching this review several times I still feel you GUYS some times do not get some of the SL bikes positives. Full power bikes are TOO heavy for 90+% of women. How about rounding up a gaggle of girls and have them do the SL review! My wife would not be able to lift a 55lb bike on to her bike rack. Love the vids by the way.
I agree with the bar/stem combo complaints. Great pointing out the chain weaknesses - any chains worth mentioning? I'm impressed with the Transition Relay (the base model) so much that I'm considering that over a Transition Patrol. The less expensive Trek and Levo SL might be runner-up options.
i own the Rise LTD, i removed the limit on both speed and torque, the RS mod is just settings, i have 85nm and it's super light, you guys never mention that, people DO derestrict their bikes, especialy in europe where the 25kph limit is just too low
Great review! Good to see you made adjustments to some of the the bikes power settings to get the best out of the bikes. Some manufacturer settings are a detriment to the proformance of the bikes for sure.
Watched & loved the whole series, now this final group review and just thumbs up! Nowhere did you mention (at least I didn’t catch it) the adjustability of the Nm on the Giant bike, it can be tuned down to 75Nm or 60Nm to save battery on longer days. I am a full size (fat) e-mtb owner looking to switch down into this newer SL category. Great series, thanks! 👍
I don't have an emtb YET, but I want a lightweight lower power emtb. Rode an Orbea Rise M20 in Bentonville for two days, and it really opened my eyes to the whole 'lightweight emtb' thing - can actually bunny hop it!
Yeah, the light ebikes are great. I been riding full fat since 2019 and really enjoy the full power, but they are a bit cumbersome and hefty. But I recently demoed and subsequently bought the Giant Trance Elite. Like the award says, it really is the best of both worlds! Lightness, agility, and the fun of a lighter bike without having to sacrifice the alluring power of a full fat. I looove it!!!
They did not give us the bike in time for this group review. However we will be riding it more to get some impressions beyond our First Ride thoughts and try to reference it to other bikes here.
We have not bee blown away by many Giants, including in our recent eMTB Shootout, but this bike has us seriously considering a purchase! Props to them.
Great vid! I bought the Relay on the back of this. Great bike. But the ring controller/remote is SUCH SUCH a disappointment!!! I’m on my second under warranty (1 split opened and the other just stopped working). Fazua have to sort this out! It’s spoiling an otherwise excellent bike!
Unless I missed it in your review, I think what you guys did NOT cover is a test on how long each bike lasted. I personally ride all 3 of my e-bikes in TURBO mode almost 100% of the time. I've recently started to use a lesser power mode while descening. With that said, a higher torque motor means faster depltion of the battery. I do own a 2023 Turbo Levo SL and have started to use MICROTUNE. It does allow me to e-longate how long/far I get to ride. I've also tried to use my 65 nm 57 pound e-bike in lesser powered modes. Here is my 2 cents. JUST TRY to ride up those same harder steep hills in a lesser power mode. I GUARANTEE that the LEVO SL (also in a lesser power mode) will be WAY easier. PLUS (as you guys have all mentioned) it is a WAY more "poppier" ride (I hate that term-😉)... But overall, a FANTASTIC REVIEW! MUCH THANKS! 🤙
This review leaves me believing that factory suspension tuning makes a huge difference to your opinion. Frequently, your reviews have very brief comments about the tune of the fork/shock. Before deciding how well a suspension design works, would you not tune them to what you feel is best? Including comments of "adding a volume spacer" tells me the stock tune is "off" or not to your liking. I suppose that custom-tuning all of these bikes to their best would take too long and delay your publishing. I believe that when you are testing or reviewing (a) (group of bike(s), you could or should level the field by doing the best tune for each and include this as part of your review. Your test riders appear to be similar in body type and somewhat similar weights, allowing for an update to the factory tune that suits your test team best. I agree that a mediocre tune results in a mediocre riding test bike. For a future subject, would you consider reviewing on how you would tune bike"X" from what is supplied by the factory?
Great job! I would love to see you guys time and do a 2-3k+ climb on them, as well as a short one. It would help reveal durability and engineering quality, imo.
Got a Relay on order for nest year. Can't wait! I do wish more brands made light EMTBs with removable battery though. Saves one from having both a E-bike and a meat-bike.
Great good guys!! I have a turbo levo gen 3 looking for a Sl and going probably on the light side. Going to be probably looking more with the fazua stuff it looks like better unite I think. Thanks for making my life easier.
The guy who said he couldn’t go up steep elevation with the Levo sl without being out of breath had the smallest legs. Just sayin 😂 he chose the trek yet that feels weaker than the Levo 🤷🏻♂️. Transition you have to take the battery out every time to charge it 👎
1 Piece Bar/Stem combo's a terrible idea from my perspective. I have a 3 of the exact same stems but each has a different length so I can get my bike set up with the best reach. Once you go 1 piece you kinda' lose that option.
Good review. All of these are great bikes. I did some testing of my own and was torn between the Giant and the Trek. I decided to go with the Giant for the price I paid, motor, and Live Valve suspension, which really seemed intriguing to me and couldn’t be happier. The versatility of the 85NM motor was what sold me, along with the great deal I got :-). It’s such a fun bike and as far as Live Valve is concerned, I think it’s a perfect match for this bike and once you get it dialed in and learn how to use it, it’s a fantastic system. No more forgetting to open the shock for the downhills like I sometimes do on my traditional pedal bikes :-) Shout out to The Path Bike Shop in OC, CA. Got my Giant there and the whole experience was awesome!
Great comparison guys nice job, can’t help but feel that if the trek fuel exe if only the tq motor put out 60nm of torque and had slightly large battery to accommodate the extra power it would be a no brained with the near silent operation of the tq motor
@@Maxi_Maxthe guys don't like normal bikes or SL ebikes... they've said it again and again, in almost every video. They ride dirtbikes so, the big ebikes are a natural extension for them.
Great stuff! …sounds like if the Transition Relay with it’s travel, and the Giant “Long Name” with its power, had a baby, That’d be the perfect EMTB!🤔😜
I'm probably correct in thinking that this is the first group review of half fat ebikes and a job well done.👏 And if anymore proof was needed that the Loam Wolf is impartial, a specialized didn't get top honours!👍
Thank you very much and we're also thinking it may have been the first ever lightweight eMTB Group Test! Which we're excited about. And we appreciate the kind words. We try our best to be as impartial and honest as we possibly can!
This was a great series! Please do an in-depth series on lower cost bikes. I work at a Giant and Pivot dealer and can say that the Shuttle SL is excellent here in Minnesota where we do not have big climbs. Im sure the Giant would be excellent too BUT these are expensive bikes and many of us want a reasonably capable bike for much less money.
Without trying them, I was choosing between the Transition Relay and Propain Ekano and ended up with the Ekano. Would be epic to see a shootout between the Relay and the new Heckler SL :) Thanks for an epic video but, very entertaining and well put together compared to many other mtb shootouts.
Love the honest reviews, as always. I totally understand about being split down the middle. I have been riding my Shuttle SL since December and my girlfriend has had her Fuel Exe since July of 2022. Sometimes we switch bikes and can agree that while each other's bike is pretty nice, we both chose the right bike for us. Worth mentioning, neither one of us has had any issues. I would consider the Transition for additional stability. But, I can accomplish that by throwing on a coil, when I need to. Mainly, I don't want to have to remove the battery to charge it. Thanks, again.
Great shootout and love your picks! Having owned both the Relay and now the Fuel Exe I can attest to the pro's and con's of each and they are great bikes. One thing you kept mentioning about both bikes was the range extenders. With the Relay, its removable battery and how it charges, I am not sure there would be a way to attach a range extender as there is no external charging port. And Trek did a good bit of marketing by sending and extender with the test bike as they are on back order for all of US, with the only people getting them had ordered them a year AGO... The Fazua system to be the best in the shootout really needs a better display. When you're riding steep trails in the PNW the difference between knowing that one dot is either 19% or 1% is kind of a big deal
A bike like these would be my first foray into the the e-bike world. I do not have the local trails to justify a longer travel big bike, let alone the money to really justify and e-bike. Maybe one of these days...
Go for it! Trust us, the amount of smiles and increase in riding you will do will only be positives. It's crazy how much more excited these things have made us about riding.
I'm on the fence about going to an eBike, but it would be an SL if I do. I'm 58 now and just can't climb like I used to be able to. My son is always have to wait on me.... I'm having a hard time accepting reality though....
We can understand the struggle, but look at it this way, once you get one and see how much fun you’re having, the new things it unlocks, and the increased stamina you’ll get cuz you’re riding more, it’ll only make your rides together more special!!
Same here, I’m 54 and getting an SL was the best scenario for me…I can enjoy longer rides more. One drawback is, battery-anxiety (what if i run out of juice even with the range-extender)😂. Demo the bikes…it is fun!
@@RealDriver8 From what I understand, the stock settings are somewhat detuned to maximize the battery. You're not getting 100 % boost unless you go into the settings.
Very cool to see this market expand, but a bit dismayed that there are no real choices that provide geo/stand-over/weight that would work for shorter riders (under 5'5"), even from Liv. It would be great to see the market go back to 27.5" wheels to make smaller eMTBs more functional for that demographic.
actually, no one wants it but brands keep thinking they will convince xc riders it is the best thing since tap water because of the reduce weight. in reality, every rider, no matter the discipline, has their own preferred set-up.
I'm coming up on (1) year of riding the Pivot Shuttle SL XTR and I agree 100% it is blistering fast. All of my buddies I ride with have full fat bikes, unlocked Levos, and one is a Luna with 160nm bafang motor. All of them go beyond the 20mph limiter. On some of the climbs I have to work hard to keep up, but when we get to flat or downhill sections good luck catching me on the Shuttle. We got to the point where they always want me to go 1st on the downhills we ride lol. Amazing bike when used for the right purpose. The team at Pivot have been incredible to deal with on a couple small issues and I also got to meet the guys from Fazua and they have been super helpful with some tuning. My bike is a large and weighs 40.5 lbs ready to ride. Hard to beat, literally. Expensive but it was worth every penny in my opinion. Great review!
Far too expensive.
I went with the 9.7 EXe. For myself, I wanted something that felt as close as possible to a regular bike, quiet, but that provided a little help. I might have checked into some other rides had this video come out before I jumped in, but I'm still pleased with the bike regardless.
Thanks for putting this together, looking forward to future reviews.
How you liking the 9.7, I'm looking at those as well.
@@JakeH-l4z I'm extremely happy with it. For me, it provides an excellent compromise between a full power e-bike and an acoustic bike, where I get just enough assist to make longer rides more enjoyable.
@@JakeH-l4z I love it. I ride it as much as I can, and only ride my regular bike about once a month or so as extra exercise. It's easily my favorite bike.
Exceptional work guys. In producing these it must take so much time and patience (and insect repellent!)
It's massively appreciated and great to watch. 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Thank you very much! And yes. We got 6 stings during the week! Not fun haha.
The chain discussion gets me even more excited about the gearbox ebikes with belt drives.
I have yet to break a chain on mine. I'm fairly confident most chains break because of shifting under load- and made even worse by the electric motor. Cycling and shifting fundamentals are essential for riding ebikes.
@@jmanswat2457 I have over 7,000 miles on my 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo and haven't ever broken a chain either. (4,300 miles on the original motor and 3,000 on replacement so far) I let off the pressure a bit before shifting. I have 2,000 miles on my SRAM XO 12 speed chain with no wear so far. I use Finishline Dry Lube on the chain after every ride if it's more than 20 miles.
A lightweight ebike I'm interested in that is full power is the new Cannondale Moterra Carbon SL for $8,700. It's 43.4 lbs with a 600Wh battery and Shimano EP801 motor.
My Relay is finally coming next week ! Great vids Guys. You just assured me that I’ve made good choice ordering Relay back in February. Cheers 👍😀
Owning a 2020 SC Heckler and pre-ordered a Heckler SL now… I‘m so ready for a lighter ebike! ❤
Knowing nothing about light e mountain bikes, the presentation and content of this video was excellent. I learned a lot. Thanks guys!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
It would be really handy if you discussed the motors in a bit more detail. I used to have a Shimano EP8 powered e-bike and I really disliked how the power cut out really quickly at higher cadences. From memory I think it was any cadance over like 110rpm, the power would cut out completely which was horrible when you were going from a descent to a sudden climb and you shifted down to a lower gear pre-emptively so that when you hit the steep climb you could blast the cadance in a lower gear to get up the climb without losing too much speed with with the EP8 if I did this the motor would just go dead and would take way too long to kick back in so I would just lose all of my momentum. It was a horrible motor in that regard. It was quite torquey but didn't like high cadance so I think the EP8 was better suited to a lazy or old rider who wanted to just grind along at low cadance and let the bike do the work. I switched to the Bosch Gen 4 and it is SO much better. You can go up to insane cadance and the motor just keeps pushing. It really makes the experience that much better when you can blast a higher cadance for a couple of seconds in those scenarios and the motor is happy to comply. If I test rode any of these other motors and found that they behaved like the EP8 then it would be crossed off the list of potential purchases immediately.
I believe a key point for the SL ebikes that wasn't fully appreciated (or highly scored) here was weight and noise of the motor. The point of SL's is to be the closest Mt bike experience without it feeling like a motorcycle. To me this disqualifies the Giant entirely because of its 80nm motor. After some custom tuning I think most will find 55nm of torque to be plenty of power. I love how quiet my fuel exe is! Although that might come at the expense of efficiency (when compared to the pivot shuttle sl, which my friend has, Shuttle seems to get better range).
I will also say that even with electric assistance, linkage and frame suspension kinematics still matter- which lends to the bikes perceived "speed". I can still tell the difference between my fuel exe and previously owned pivots. I will be getting a Pivot again in the future.
How would the new Santa Cruz Heckler SL compare to the top bikes you had (the Trek, Pivot, and Transition)? Thanks!
This is what I was hoping to hear about as well. Hopefully they release a video that addresses this soon.
Great job, really helped me making a decision.
Transition Relay!
Glad it helped!
Huge spread on pricing. I will take full power with good suspension under 8k. The weight isn't an issue for me.
It’ll be interesting to see where sales and the market goes based on consumer purchases!
Now that you guys have ridden a bunch of SL bikes and full power, can you do a short break down on why you might chose one over the other?
Great reviews. Like really good. Disappointed the Santa Cruz didn’t make it in the final video.
Yes we were bummed to not have it in time as well!
I didn’t like the one piece handlebars at first but they grew on my over time, now I really like them, however I wouldn’t pay that much for a set of handlebars (mine came with the bike).
I rode a full power ebike for a couple years and am curious how many of you would trade in your full power ebike for a lightweight and why? Thanks for the great content
Very tough call... With a range extender it's getting to be a closer decision but still a very tough one! I think its very much rider dependent but we think 75% of our crew will keep a good full power bike as of right now. 630-700 battery is great.
@@TheLoamWolf Is that due to how much longer the battery lasts or the extra power it puts out? I've never ridden full powers or SL's so i'm trying to gauge which direction to go.
@Isaac, it depends if you feel as and want to be a mtb-er. If you like the spirit and ethos of mtb-ing. If you want that in your life then, you'll like SL ebikes. If you don't care and all you want is big power uphill and big squishy on the downs, don't bother and keep your full fat ebike.
Really good review thanks guys. You have helped me limit my choice to the Giant or the Transition. I read that the Giant had an annoying habit of resetting the power settings after each ride. Do you know if this has been rectified?
That was resolved with firmware
How would the new Canondale moterra SL fit with these? Shoot it out!
Another decent review, thanks LW team.
I believe these imposter/ebike lite/SL e-bikes are basically what we should expect emtb's in the near future. We will have lower weight bikes, with full power availability in an SL form factor, along with modular battery options to suit the rider's needs. There wont be a need to make a bike that is in between analog and and power assist, just a high quality emtb that allows it be setup based on the rider's desired experience. There is no reason we can't have a silent TQ sized motor with a sleek downtube, with a minimalist cockpit, that provides about a 700w peak/90+ ft/lbs of assist.
That said.....
I would like to see more info and demo's of all the "apps" and integration available in these type's of reviews, along with a deeper dive into the calibration possibilities that they offer. I don't think we can just ignore this aspect anymore and say whatever, the default settings are gtg and this is just how the bike rides. A "good" or properly configured calibration for a rider, can be the difference between loving and hating a bike.
On the questions asked:
yes one-piece bar/stem setups need to go, along with integrated cables.
On the chain issue, we need to look at possibly less gears and bigger beefier chains found on a 9-10 speed, or better yet internal gearbox, with belt drives possibly.
Thank you for the input! Always looking to improve and we will include that in future emtb series reviews.
I’m looking at switching from a full power or should I say a full weight e-bike to an SL. I have a cube stereo hybrid 160 which is great when you take it into the hills where the chunky stuff is but most of my riding is pretty flat trails. I’m pretty fit and don’t need 85nm of torque with 700wh plus battery. I ride my cube in Eco mostly and have the torque set to 45nm. On steeper longer climbs I will move up to Tour+ which I have set at 60nm. Personally I think the biggest issue with full power e-bikes is that here in the UK, they are limited to 15.5mph. This is too low. It’s too easy to hit the limit on the flat and also on some gradients. You then feel the weight of the bike and it spoils the fun. I think an SL at around 19kg would feel a bit more lively and be less of a drag when you hit that limiter.
I think once we get a SL around 40lbs with about 70nm and decent battery that'll be the best of both worlds.
Big NO on the one-piece bar stem combo. I have no idea why a factory would begin to think they could dial in my RAD. Silly.
Could you please do a review for a group of lower spec versions less then $4000 or $6000 ?
Yes we will work that for next year!
really enjoyable vid!
Thank you!
Waiting to buy one until they get rid of chains and go to belt drive or honestly anything that's less maintenance.
115-lb female rider, live in the Wasatch- it’s steep here! Been mtn biking forever - 35 years - and am ready to start using an SL on some of the steeper rides here. I like a playful, nimble short wheelbase climber with a mullet setup to flick around downhill corners & aspen trees. Eyeing the Specialized turbo levo expert carbon SL - the Giant Trance sounds awesome but heavier… and I’m worried about its range (I do longer rides). And 150mm travel in front is just fine. Advice?
Hey thanks for all the info as it helps for sure! Check out the newly released Ari Nebo Peak. The Levo SL isn’t super high on our list, it’s good and rides quite well when you don’t compare the drive unit and range head to head with others, but other bikes ride nearly as well, have more power, range and don’t cost as much!
Wow yes- That’s the bike! Thanks a ton!
Check out the new Cannondale Moterra Carbon SL. Full power Shimano EP8O1 motor with 600Wh battery and weighs 43.4 lbs and is $8,700 for a great component build. My current bike is a 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo that weighs about 54lbs. I would get the Cannondale for my next ebike as it has the high power and low weight combined. I look forward towards getting a lighter weight bike.
@@burnx45 The Moterra looks like a great bike! That’s a lot of power for the weight.
I ordered my Ari Nebo Peak and should have it really soon. I think I’m going to love it! Their service has been awesome & their HQ is just right down the road, quite the busy hive in there :) Ari has a generous 30-day trial period so I’ll put it through its paces and report back!
@@GeoGoddessUT Enjoy your new Ari bike. I'm sure you'll love it.
question of noise... I've heard Ebikes have a rattle while descending??
Mentioned this shootout in the Heckler SL video but I wasn’t included or even talked about?
Correct, we had just wrapped up the Shootout before the Heckler SL and it wasn't out yet or on our launch radar when we were filming our SL Shootout. We were saying it would have been a great bike to have there as it would have been a great contender.
Seems like these have similar battery issues as the earlier full strength eMTBs. Full strength eMTBs came with 500-600wh, but really benefit from the range boost when they started having 750-900wh options. These lower power eMTB seem to be coming with little 300-400wh batteries, but would really benefit from a 500-600wh option. The idea of an external range extender taking up my only water bottle location is a non-starter. If I'm out for a long adventure day to make use of the extender, I need the water.
The lower power is likely fine for me. I'm only ever in eco or trail, never "Boost" on an EP8/900wh powered bike. I need the battery to be able to do some epic long days and adventures.
In this roundup, I think the Orbea would be my only option. Thanks for the roundup!
The Turbo Levo SL is outrageously priced. I know Specialized make good quality bikes but this is just ridiculous. $13,500 NZD for a bike with a Fox 36 RHYTHM?!? They couldn't even give us the performance chassis? Are you serious, Specialized? What a slap in the face.
As a bigger rider ,205lbs, who rides a full fat now I'm considering a midweight e bike. The Giant has my attention. I like the Trek but at my weight I think I may burn through that battery to fast. I'm an Oregon rider too, Portland area. Sandy Ridge, Kloochy, Cold Creek, Hood River and syncline in the winter. How do you think the Giant would fare on those trails? Or would you recommend something else? Thanks. I've been home injured so watched the whole series and it was great.
Thanks and glad you enjoyed it. Hope you heal up quickly! Those are awesome spots to ride and the Giant with a range extender will definitely get you up quickest!! Plus at places like Sandy you can drop it off once drained and get a couple "lighter" laps or stash it for later in the day... 160mm fork upgrade could be dialed for you there. Same situation with Trek! 160 and range extender for sure. the added drive unit power will help with your weight though.
Rode a Relay (stock 29er, GX build) in Bellingham yesterday. 225# rider, 3000' of vert, 19 miles, 2 out of 5 battery bars left. I could see this being my only bike, and it would be awesome for Sandy Ridge, Syncline, and Post Canyon. Rode a Repeater the week before, liked it, but would gladly live with the lower power (but similar range) to benefit from a bike that can both play or plow, rather than just plow. With the Repeater, I'd have to keep my trailbike; with the Relay, I could see not needing it except as a spare.
Why are you calling it mid power? Seems like everyone wouldn't want less power.
One piece bar stem combos are bad!
Yeah. They should have brought back those paint jobs not the bar stem combo
Have you see tha same people that hate ebikes for noise, love exteremy loud freehubs on their acoustic bikes? Paradox ??
Haha. They also love shuttles and chairlifts.
Throw one piece stem/bar and the headset cable routing crap in the trash.
Trek the best, fuck the rest 😎
Couldn’t get past the terrible country music in the back ground to even watch the video
Wash yo feet homie
You caught me! Was washing bikes in the driveway right before filming. My wife just yelled the same thing when she watched.
Any thoughts on how the Santa Cruz Heckler SL would have done in this shootout? Too bad it wasn’t released in time to make it into this comparison.
It would’ve won.
Thank You for doing this.
All the stress and work is worth it thanks to awesome comments and supporters like you! We appreciate it.
As someone who owns the Orbea Rise and a Santa Cruz Hightower, I’m getting the Specialized Levo SL. I’ve ridden the new Heckler SL, the Pivot Shuttle SL, and the Levo. The Pivot is really light, but feels more trail than downhill. The Pivot is gorgeous in the desert sage color with Kashima coat. I was tempted to but it for the looks alone😂. The Heckler is nice, but honestly the Fazua system feels dull and seems to have a serious delay applying power. The Levo SL to me felt perfect. Just enough power help nicely with the climbs, but not so much that it sacrificed any playfulness downhill. The bike feels like a Porsche 911 on trails, and a Troohy truck downhill. A definite quiver killer.
Thanks for sharing. We appreciate your input.
Taking the rider's weight into consideration.....my 110lb girl rides the specialized levo SL mostly in eco(lowest) power, and kicks butt on the climbs. She refuses the high power settings as "uncontrollable" 😅
Great series! At the rate of ebike launches you'll have to do another round up in 6 months. Maybe do a series capping it at $8-9k/bike? Keep up the great work!
We are thinking of that for next year! It'll be rad to see how they perform.
Great work on this series! I think this category is the gateway for those of use who started out on analogs but where life gets in the way of all day grind fests. For me, the ebike is a time machine, allowing more laps and more smiles. It also levels the playing field for those that are not as athletic. Not to feed into too much confirmation bias, but I bought a Relay PNW edition a few months ago after doing my own research and am so happy I did. You didn’t touch on my other use case for the Relay which is popping out the battery and hitting up the bike park. It’s so good!
This really cements my opinion of the transition as my next bike. Thank you guys so much for doing this shootout!
Great roundup! Still looking forward to an in depth on the Heckler SL. I was all in on the Relay, but the lower builds are too heavy. The Heckler SL seems to fit the bill on the build I want. Looking forward to your take.
Ditto. Word for word my exact thoughts.
Thats the problem with so many of these test bikes. They get sent the top spec and by the time you get the "average" persons build, they are 5 pounds heavier
Did you guys put the Levo SL to 100%? By default it only gives 80% power in turbo.
That’s right. To unlock the full potential, the power settings need to be bumped up in the app. Under controlled hill climb tests, the Levo SL has been as fast or faster than the 60 nm bikes.
There are a few of us awaiting a reply on this question.
@@RealDriver8 maybe the silence is the answer?
I love your guys reviews. My only critique is that you test the highest end version of every bike. No one is buying those ones. I wish you would get the mid version of each one. If you buy a 10+ thousand bike in 2023 you are doing it wrong.
Unfortunately it’s all about what the companies send them. They all end up sending them their high end stuff. Pinkbike has talked about it in depth on their podcast
The problem with mid price comparison is the mixed bag of where costs were cut, one will have better brakes, the next better suspension etc. If it's all top spec then the review is about the frame and the part of the bike that won't get changed. Mid level reviews often end up describing which component ended up being the limit of the bike's performance, I can't stand them.
And why the bike industry is now bombing, greed led to screwing a great community.
@Nugemart LOL, I think you mean a delayed response to an unusual spike in demand. I'm not aware of any industry that comes close to the level of customer focus and passion for the sport mountain biking has.
Definitely this! Pick bikes in the 6k-8k range!
I've had the Specialized Levo SL 2023 for a few months now. Did a ton of research. Its a fantastic bike for 90% of things.
As for the power comments... I think these guys are getting old and fat :) I'm 5'10", 185lbs and think Trail mode is cheating. :)
That being said, I wanted a bike that didn't look like an e-bike. Only a couple of the bikes in this list fit that bill.
My buddy has the Trek. The Trek is more stealthy / quieter, but has a bit less battery efficiency / range compared to the Specialized.
If you want a super light, playful, fun, and poppy light e-bike that doesn't look like an e-bike, the Specialized is perfect. I can get ~30 miles on my local trails WITHOUT the range extender. I, personally, think it climbs super easily on Trail mode.... I don't even use the Power/Boost mode.
Scott Lumen seems to be for older riders (60+) that just stick to mellower trails, but could use the boost from the motor due to "getting older." I could see myself riding something like that once I'm retired. I probably won't be lapping jump lines or mega tech then. For all e-bikes I switched from full power (YT) to the Trek. The Trek provides "enough" power while remaining light and stealthy. I only want one bike and the Trek fits the bill for that. Cost is no objected I'd have a full power bike and an analog bike, but unfortunately cost is an object, so the mid-power bike covers most of the bases.
You might be surprised. I’m 67 and still love the tech and jump lines. The Lumen doesn’t interest me at all. The Transition would be my pick. I own a Fuel Exe with a 160 fork. A great bike but could use slightly more power.
I would have loved the Relay but went for the Shuttle SL back in February as I really needed something to get me back out after illness, having to remove the battery also put me off a bit. Glad I made a good choice as it was my first real experience of e-bikes (other than a trial on the Forestal that backs up everything you said). So far the Shuttle has done everything I could want . Quick blast on Rocket to 40 miles on breeze, gentle trails to full on Lake District epics. I've watched all the videos in this group and they are spot on, keep them coming.
Thank you very much and stoked to hear that you like the Shuttle SL! It's a rad bike.
Great review! Very curious how the new Hecker SL compares head to head with the Transition Relay?
Yeah hopefully the Loam wolf will give us their thoughts
Very different due to the travel and plus feeling suspension of the Transition vs the Heckler SL. We've not had enough time on Heckler SL, which is a very fun bike, but let's just say since we're not the biggest VPP suspension fans, it wouldn't have taken away the awards given for most of our crew. Still a rad and playful bike and in the right terrain, it rips!
Had an older levo sl with less power. Loved the bike and hated the motor. Would consider a kenevo with newer motor. Thought about relay, but at 49 pounds, I should just get a levo expert. Thanks for showing, look forward to the show.
Full power is a handful on really steep, tight tech. Thinking about going down to an SL.
Giant might be powerful but it’s also noisy as hell. I hate that aspect of e-bikes
If you guys love the Relay, you should REALLY try the PNW version. It's everything you said and then some!
Thanks for this perfect video, 1 week ago I did buy the specialized turbo levo sl carbon 2023 with the new 1.2 motor. Got it for 7100 dollars my bike shop made me an offer i couldent say no to. Had the first ride on it last day. And what a play full bike, for me the power is more than enough and on the downhill Parts the bike feels so good.
Great to hear! Congrats and enjoy your new bike.
Even my 35Nm KSL has allowed me as a family man to hit trails more often and still be home to cook dinner.
Awesome video and literally covered just about every popular motor. Congrats Transition!!!! They make the best bikes hands down.
Coming from a stumpjumper evo and canyon torque:on cf8, I'm looking at a lightweight to eliminate the other 2 all together. From personal experience, I feel like 60nm tq and 38-48lb is the sweet spot... Any more torque and mtb tires hold you back. More weight and brakes become more an issue. The giant is the future... tunable power with more compact and efficient battery cells.
I Will be buying in this segment, possibly this fall. The decision will probably be between the Relay and Heckler SL. I have a Hightower and a Sentinel and assume some of the ride quality differences will extend to the e-bikes. The Sentinel is a clear winner in the gnar, but the Hightower is more balanced and what I’d choose for a long day of varied terrain. Both are great. I have a frame warranty issue starting with the Sentinel, and how Transition does or doesn’t handle it will probably be the deciding factor. The Shuttle SL would be a contender, but I can’t get past the steep-ish geometry, given the type of riding I’m going to be doing. I may still visit Tempe for a factory demo though.
After watching this review several times I still feel you GUYS some times do not get some of the SL bikes positives.
Full power bikes are TOO heavy for 90+% of women. How about rounding up a gaggle of girls and have them do the SL review!
My wife would not be able to lift a 55lb bike on to her bike rack.
Love the vids by the way.
I really do love them all and would take any one of them , I've got a 21' sl with a Specialized shop just 20 mi from me , the choice was simple
I agree with the bar/stem combo complaints. Great pointing out the chain weaknesses - any chains worth mentioning? I'm impressed with the Transition Relay (the base model) so much that I'm considering that over a Transition Patrol. The less expensive Trek and Levo SL might be runner-up options.
We've had great luck with KMC chains so far.
i own the Rise LTD, i removed the limit on both speed and torque, the RS mod is just settings, i have 85nm and it's super light, you guys never mention that, people DO derestrict their bikes, especialy in europe where the 25kph limit is just too low
Went from a Levo to a Relay. Never looking back. The Levo was too much of a tank.
I have a Levo and I’m reaching the same conclusion. Would like something lighter weight.
Great review! Good to see you made adjustments to some of the the bikes power settings to get the best out of the bikes. Some manufacturer settings are a detriment to the proformance of the bikes for sure.
Watched & loved the whole series, now this final group review and just thumbs up!
Nowhere did you mention (at least I didn’t catch it) the adjustability of the Nm on the Giant bike, it can be tuned down to 75Nm or 60Nm to save battery on longer days.
I am a full size (fat) e-mtb owner looking to switch down into this newer SL category.
Great series, thanks! 👍
Thanks and good point! It may have actually been in there and gotten edited out of the already long round table of rants. haha. But good point!
I don't have an emtb YET, but I want a lightweight lower power emtb. Rode an Orbea Rise M20 in Bentonville for two days, and it really opened my eyes to the whole 'lightweight emtb' thing - can actually bunny hop it!
Yeah, the light ebikes are great. I been riding full fat since 2019 and really enjoy the full power, but they are a bit cumbersome and hefty. But I recently demoed and subsequently bought the Giant Trance Elite. Like the award says, it really is the best of both worlds! Lightness, agility, and the fun of a lighter bike without having to sacrifice the alluring power of a full fat. I looove it!!!
Cool - one thing they never mention is that you actually have to lift the dang thing into a bike rack or truck!@@jasper_of_puppets
What happened with the Santa Cruz?
They did not give us the bike in time for this group review. However we will be riding it more to get some impressions beyond our First Ride thoughts and try to reference it to other bikes here.
I think the story here is the Giant. After bringing so many subpar to average bikes to market, they produce this ripper. I'm sold.
We have not bee blown away by many Giants, including in our recent eMTB Shootout, but this bike has us seriously considering a purchase! Props to them.
Great review, Thanks! I am demoing the Giant Elite +2 this week. I did not care for the non elite version, too heavy and not nimble enough.
How'd the demo go? Did you like the bike?
Great vid! I bought the Relay on the back of this. Great bike.
But the ring controller/remote is SUCH SUCH a disappointment!!! I’m on my second under warranty (1 split opened and the other just stopped working). Fazua have to sort this out! It’s spoiling an otherwise excellent bike!
Unless I missed it in your review, I think what you guys did NOT cover is a test on how long each bike lasted. I personally ride all 3 of my e-bikes in TURBO mode almost 100% of the time. I've recently started to use a lesser power mode while descening. With that said, a higher torque motor means faster depltion of the battery. I do own a 2023 Turbo Levo SL and have started to use MICROTUNE. It does allow me to e-longate how long/far I get to ride. I've also tried to use my 65 nm 57 pound e-bike in lesser powered modes. Here is my 2 cents. JUST TRY to ride up those same harder steep hills in a lesser power mode. I GUARANTEE that the LEVO SL (also in a lesser power mode) will be WAY easier. PLUS (as you guys have all mentioned) it is a WAY more "poppier" ride (I hate that term-😉)...
But overall, a FANTASTIC REVIEW! MUCH THANKS! 🤙
If you want chains that last on ebikes ditch 12spd! there is a reason shimano went back to 10-11spd with their linkglide.
This review leaves me believing that factory suspension tuning makes a huge difference to your opinion. Frequently, your reviews have very brief comments about the tune of the fork/shock. Before deciding how well a suspension design works, would you not tune them to what you feel is best? Including comments of "adding a volume spacer" tells me the stock tune is "off" or not to your liking. I suppose that custom-tuning all of these bikes to their best would take too long and delay your publishing. I believe that when you are testing or reviewing (a) (group of bike(s), you could or should level the field by doing the best tune for each and include this as part of your review. Your test riders appear to be similar in body type and somewhat similar weights, allowing for an update to the factory tune that suits your test team best. I agree that a mediocre tune results in a mediocre riding test bike.
For a future subject, would you consider reviewing on how you would tune bike"X" from what is supplied by the factory?
Great job! I would love to see you guys time and do a 2-3k+ climb on them, as well as a short one. It would help reveal durability and engineering quality, imo.
Got a Relay on order for nest year. Can't wait! I do wish more brands made light EMTBs with removable battery though. Saves one from having both a E-bike and a meat-bike.
Great good guys!! I have a turbo levo gen 3 looking for a Sl and going probably on the light side. Going to be probably looking more with the fazua stuff it looks like better unite I think. Thanks for making my life easier.
The guy who said he couldn’t go up steep elevation with the Levo sl without being out of breath had the smallest legs. Just sayin 😂 he chose the trek yet that feels weaker than the Levo 🤷🏻♂️. Transition you have to take the battery out every time to charge it 👎
1 Piece Bar/Stem combo's a terrible idea from my perspective. I have a 3 of the exact same stems but each has a different length so I can get my bike set up with the best reach. Once you go 1 piece you kinda' lose that option.
Thanks for sharing!
Good review. All of these are great bikes. I did some testing of my own and was torn between the Giant and the Trek. I decided to go with the Giant for the price I paid, motor, and Live Valve suspension, which really seemed intriguing to me and couldn’t be happier. The versatility of the 85NM motor was what sold me, along with the great deal I got :-). It’s such a fun bike and as far as Live Valve is concerned, I think it’s a perfect match for this bike and once you get it dialed in and learn how to use it, it’s a fantastic system. No more forgetting to open the shock for the downhills like I sometimes do on my traditional pedal bikes :-) Shout out to The Path Bike Shop in OC, CA. Got my Giant there and the whole experience was awesome!
Thanks so much for sharing and we’re stoked to hear you are loving the new bike.
Great comparison guys nice job, can’t help but feel that if the trek fuel exe if only the tq motor put out 60nm of torque and had slightly large battery to accommodate the extra power it would be a no brained with the near silent operation of the tq motor
No, the guys have forgotten the point of a light ebike If you approach it with that perspective, you should buy a normal one or wait for the Bosch SX
@@Maxi_Maxthe guys don't like normal bikes or SL ebikes... they've said it again and again, in almost every video.
They ride dirtbikes so, the big ebikes are a natural extension for them.
I have a 2022 trance. It doesn’t rip at all, it’s a heavy boy for a 140/150 bike.
$14000 😂
You guys have lost your minds
Great stuff! …sounds like if the Transition Relay with it’s travel, and the Giant “Long Name” with its power, had a baby, That’d be the perfect EMTB!🤔😜
I'm probably correct in thinking that this is the first group review of half fat ebikes and a job well done.👏 And if anymore proof was needed that the Loam Wolf is impartial, a specialized didn't get top honours!👍
Thank you very much and we're also thinking it may have been the first ever lightweight eMTB Group Test! Which we're excited about.
And we appreciate the kind words. We try our best to be as impartial and honest as we possibly can!
This was a great series! Please do an in-depth series on lower cost bikes. I work at a Giant and Pivot dealer and can say that the Shuttle SL is excellent here in Minnesota where we do not have big climbs. Im sure the Giant would be excellent too BUT these are expensive bikes and many of us want a reasonably capable bike for much less money.
Great suggestion! We will work on that for sure!
Without trying them, I was choosing between the Transition Relay and Propain Ekano and ended up with the Ekano. Would be epic to see a shootout between the Relay and the new Heckler SL :) Thanks for an epic video but, very entertaining and well put together compared to many other mtb shootouts.
Thank you very much!
1 piece bar and stem-just NO!!
Love the honest reviews, as always. I totally understand about being split down the middle. I have been riding my Shuttle SL since December and my girlfriend has had her Fuel Exe since July of 2022. Sometimes we switch bikes and can agree that while each other's bike is pretty nice, we both chose the right bike for us. Worth mentioning, neither one of us has had any issues. I would consider the Transition for additional stability. But, I can accomplish that by throwing on a coil, when I need to. Mainly, I don't want to have to remove the battery to charge it. Thanks, again.
Awesome thank you so much!
Great shootout and love your picks! Having owned both the Relay and now the Fuel Exe I can attest to the pro's and con's of each and they are great bikes.
One thing you kept mentioning about both bikes was the range extenders. With the Relay, its removable battery and how it charges, I am not sure there would be a way to attach a range extender as there is no external charging port. And Trek did a good bit of marketing by sending and extender with the test bike as they are on back order for all of US, with the only people getting them had ordered them a year AGO...
The Fazua system to be the best in the shootout really needs a better display. When you're riding steep trails in the PNW the difference between knowing that one dot is either 19% or 1% is kind of a big deal
A bike like these would be my first foray into the the e-bike world. I do not have the local trails to justify a longer travel big bike, let alone the money to really justify and e-bike. Maybe one of these days...
Go for it! Trust us, the amount of smiles and increase in riding you will do will only be positives. It's crazy how much more excited these things have made us about riding.
Thank you for reaffirming my decision to but a full power e mtb. Went for an Orbea Wild no regrets with the power or weight.
You are welcome! haha. Glad you enjoy it.
I'm on the fence about going to an eBike, but it would be an SL if I do. I'm 58 now and just can't climb like I used to be able to. My son is always have to wait on me.... I'm having a hard time accepting reality though....
We can understand the struggle, but look at it this way, once you get one and see how much fun you’re having, the new things it unlocks, and the increased stamina you’ll get cuz you’re riding more, it’ll only make your rides together more special!!
Same here, I’m 54 and getting an SL was the best scenario for me…I can enjoy longer rides more. One drawback is, battery-anxiety (what if i run out of juice even with the range-extender)😂. Demo the bikes…it is fun!
Great reviews gentlemen! I'm really hoping the new SRAM transmissions prove to have much better longevity on ebikes.
Hopefully Pinion will become more mainstream
Great review! Just wondering if you guys played with the mission control app to see if you could give the Levo Sl more uphill grunt?
Would sure like an answer on this too
@@RealDriver8 From what I understand, the stock settings are somewhat detuned to maximize the battery. You're not getting 100 % boost unless you go into the settings.
Fuel EXe is my pick, especially with its new 2024 spec and pricing update this week!!
Very cool to see this market expand, but a bit dismayed that there are no real choices that provide geo/stand-over/weight that would work for shorter riders (under 5'5"), even from Liv. It would be great to see the market go back to 27.5" wheels to make smaller eMTBs more functional for that demographic.
Curious, what was your most reliable chain (make/model) on the test? Enquiry emtb owners want to know 🤓
We've been having good luck with KMC chains.
@@TheLoamWolf Thanks, I appreciate the reply. I'm on a Shimano SLX at the moment(RM Powerplay) with over 1100km.
One piece bar and stem is something only the road and XC bikes are wanting. Not the rest of the riders
actually, no one wants it but brands keep thinking they will convince xc riders it is the best thing since tap water because of the reduce weight. in reality, every rider, no matter the discipline, has their own preferred set-up.