How to Play Control with Jumbo Commander | The Command Zone 205 | Magic: the Gathering EDH
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Show Notes:
DJ from the Jumbo Commander TH-cam channel makes a guest appearance to talk about his favorite EDH Archetype: the Control deck. Tune in and learn everything there is to know about this challenging style of play!
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Came to the comment section for some control cards and all I found was love.
Your channel is really fantastic. Love your spotlight videos and deck techs and so happy you got this chance to feature on another channel.
Looking forward to whenever you get to play on game knights. Bring the pain Dj...bring the pain.
Your channel is my favorite for MTG content. I like your format and the good quality of your video's.
DJ: you rock!
I love your channel and so does my play group. Love from the uk! Also love how you try to interact with your audience in the comments
It was nice to have JumboCommander on the show. I often wind up being the group hug, support, or controller in our group. Part of my control strategy is to durdle and outlast everyone via life gain or protect effects. Approach of the Second Sun, Swords to Plowshares, Ghostly Prison are staples of course, but I love manipulating *other* people's life totals. Protect an ally from losing with a well timed Reverse the Sands to bring them back into fight to kill the other aggro / creature heavy deck is such a chaotic and fun control moment. :)
I don't know if I missed it while listening to this, but I feel like one thing you didn't touch on was how to end the game as a control player. Playing a control deck often means you're somewhat arbitrarily slowing down what can already be a very long game, and if you don't have a quick win-con you're just not going to be that much fun to play with. And the harder kind of control your playing, the faster you want to be able to end the game. You can't lock your opponents out of the game while sitting there playing draw-go.
I'm personally the more STAX kind of control player which has its own counter-strategies, but my advice in general for beating control decks would be: Make your deck threat-dense and try to find redundancies. Have ways to protect your stuff. Diversify your win-conditions. Try to avoid "hate" cards and silver bullets unless they already synergize with your deck.
Ultimately, like Jumbo mentioned, you need to tailor your control/anti-control strategy to your meta, but try to avoid an arms race.
"The commander keeps coming back". Makes me remind of the time when Hinder was putting the commanders to the bottom of their owner's library xD
Hey you guys did put my box in the set. Saw it sitting behind Josh's head back there
One thing I find works against control decks is having a lot of redundancy. If I'm counting on one card to win - then that creates a lot of opportunity for failure. But in a lot of my decks, it's more about gaining value, and that multiplying with each additional card that I play, rather than multiplying. If someone gets rid of one card - hey, I have another thing that's just as good not far away. Does make board wipes a bit more annoying, though!
Black blue ninjas is my jam
Every episode about commander damage now XD
So that's how jumbo commander looks like
So handsome ... actually, I have found that I fit MTGs demographics pretty spot on.
Jumbo Commander haha you actually look for a friendly. In not sure how to explain it. I love your work keep up!
OMFG This is happening!
Whats happening with those windows? Are they posters or stickers? I need these!@
Hey why don't you make a updated video for 101 commander for new players and what commander card specks to them cuz I was at my local store and I was talking to some one that was new to the game and they asked what commander should i play in commander i said look for one that calls to you and I said to look at the command zone on TH-cam cuz they have awesome videos for commander for new players
I use Keiga, the tide star in a clone deck and steal peoples commanders
I love Jumbo commander! Glad to see more people being brought onto the show recently
Would love to see him in a game knights episode!
Yes!
I love you back. Props to Josh & Jimmy for having so many guests. It can be extra work coordinating a show with a new person but they are damn professionals.
This is how stax works:
Imagine each deck as a racecar; optimized and perfectly tuned to rush across the track in order to reach the finish before the rest.
Stax covers the tracks with oil, caltrops, and potholes before driving a tractor.
Thank you guys for using your platform to support smaller MTG channels! I understand first-hand how hard it can be to build up an audience from scratch.
Just checked out your channel nice work dude
Let me brag on DJ really quick. I'm from the Houston Area and after Harvey he put up a video saying that he wanted to help someone who may have lost cards or lost their home or whatever else they lost. Our friend Norman from our shop lost his apartment and him and his wife and daughter had to move to a hotel for a long time. 10 or 15 of us messaged DJ about him helping Norman out and he sent him a Gahiji deck and a stuffed unicorn for his daughter. I know DJ may remember Norman and the whole crew from All Star. He really helped Norman out alot. DJ is a great guy. I'm glad he was on here.
Of course, I remember Norman! Your LGS was amazing; you were all looking out for someone who needed a hand. Magic players can be some of the best people. I really hope Norman and his family are doing well.
Jumbo Commander Norman is doing good. They were able to go back to their apartment once they owners fixed everything up. It was really cool to see his face light up when Brian gave him your package. It was awesome. And he still plays that deck. It's brutal.
That's awesome to hear. Give my best to your whole playgroup!
*Sniff* *Sniff* It's enough to make a grown man cry
Sooooooooooo.... DJ on Game Knights? Yes?
Aiden Noir yes please.
I just finished listening to Jumbo Commander and look here’s the Command Zone! Perfect timing!
Yes! My two favourite MtG channels in the same video!
Same here! This made me so happy!
Same :D
I loooooove Jumbo Commander!! I'm so happy to see DJ on this episode! Man, I hope he'll be on a Game Knights soon!
San Lu he totally could have phoned in for a podcast...wonder why they needed him on set?
Hmmm...suspicious..very suspicious indeed...
DJ FINALLY GETTING BIG AND RECOGNIZED. keep up the good work my man I love all three of ya!
Congrats Jumbo way to go!!!
Thanks, as soon as Josh saw me play Vedalken Orrery he knew he had found a kindred spirit ... a guest spot on his show was almost inevitable.
Omg Jumbo is the best Channel
Hi Jens. I appreciate that
Jumbo Commander Personal reply made my year thank you ^-^
It's still only early April .... You still have time to cast Tefferi's Protection in response to a Cyclonic Rift which is certainly a year-topping-feeling
What is this the Avengers for Commander/EDH?
If this was the Avengers I would be Phil Coulson ... I finally meet my heroes and never get them to sign any cards for me ... then I get a spinoff that has loyal fans but isn't as successful as the real Avengers.
Your origin story for your channel name is better than most Super Heroes. All the best, keep up the great content!
Eclipse sleeves come in 100 packs now? Maybe I will finally get some because who needs 80 sleeves..?
Probably anyone who plays anything other than EDH
Yaknow 60 card deck + side board
I can confidently say that it is someone with 4 more packs of eclipse sleeves and 4 commander decks!
I bought two packs of 80 so that I would have 100 to sleeve up a commander deck and then 60 leftover to use for draft.
Resolves! My favorite commander channel. Glad to see him get some love.
What is this? A crossover episode!
Jumbo - “Don’t fight over the tutor, counter the thing they tutor for”
Opponent casts Intuition and the table loses instantly...
YES. Jumbo commander is one of my favorite MTG content producers! Thank you for hosting him!
I'm a simple man. I see a video by the command zone with Jumbo commander discussing how to play control in commander and I click on it.
DoubleHelixGamer, how many of those are there in existence?
Edgar S.H. at least 1
Dallas Chaffin for every alternate universe in existence.
"s i m p l e m a n"
Heck yea, Jumbo finally is on the command zone. Best day ever
I had that exact same thought.
Right?! That was my thought too! This made me so happy!
I love you too.
WAIT! JIMMY! We just watched “John died at the end” for Friday the 13th. I never realized you were in it until now!???? You’re Fred in the movie right???
Jumbo Commander is Great peoples
DJ needs to be on the podcast more often....great episode!🤯
Jumbo was the one who inspired me to start my own magic channel, good to see him on here
Krenko is a great place to start! Keep it going!
Get Dev from SBMtG for GameKnights!
My experience with control in a nutshell:
Control friend: yo you can cast Gishath now
Me: Damn dude its dino time now *casts commander*
Control player: Distainful nope
Me: oh
when is seffronolive going to be game knights!!!!?????
4:00 video starts
Omg Jumbo is here!!!
So glad Jumbo is here! Genuinely one of my favourite guests possible :)
I'm a hardcore control player and my pet card is Disallow. It's a counterspell you'll always be happy to have in your hand, especially if you have some sort of cost reduction on board (e.g. Baral or Jace's Sanctum). It's a hard counter that also hits triggered or activated abilities. That turns from a merely good card to run (Counterspell) into a fantastically versatile one.
Back in the day we called it "Mother-May-I?" since everything the opponents do becomes that question, if done right.
You guys are awesome and we love you but that was nothing whatsoever like three part harmony sorry. LOL
We asked Craig to autotune us but clearly that didn't happen.
Oops. Lol. I thought Jumbo Commander was a oddball format that I hadn't heard of yet...
For over a year I've been wanting Jumbo Commander and the Command Zone to collaborate on an episode, and I find out you guys are in the same playgroup. Can we make DJ a regular recurring guest?
As for being a control player, a card I keep meaning to put in my decks but would love to hear some opinions on is Telepathy.
U
Enchantment
Your opponents play with their hands revealed.
I figure not only will this give you all the information you could possibly want on every player but will make your opponents even more paranoid of one another and more prone to answer each other's threats. Don't just control the board state, control your opponents aggression away from you.
We have shared a few games. It helps that I'm also based out of Los Angeles. I hope this episode gets a lot of positive feedback. It was really fun to work with them so it'd be great to go back. On Telepathy .. YES, I really love that card. It adds a whole new dimension to the game. Great control tech!
The talk about threat assessment made me think about a factor that always comes up.
And that’s real world money of a card.
If somebody plays a Doubling Season that to me is a scary card because of what it does and it is a expensive card. That means the rest of their deck could be scary, so I should kill it the player who plays the expensive cards.
Interesting thought on budget in gameplay
That's a super interesting factor that we didn't explore. Now that you mention it I'll look across the table at a beautifully altered/foiled commander and I know that the player REALLY thought about every card in that deck. Great insight!
Jumbo Commander um....... I screamed literally! when I saw you replied.
Max, when I read that you screamed at my reply I let out a throaty chuckle at the idea ... hmmmf-hmmmf-hmmmph
I’m around 7 minutes into the video and this peaks my interest, I haven’t created my first commander as I started about 2 months ago. I just want to ask if I was to try to make a control deck would Nicol Bolas or The Scarab god work for this type of play style?
Esper is best for control. :)
Simic or Sultai are best for Control. You get recursion in Green and Tutors in Black. You need the Green for sure to have ways of consistently getting your spells back.
Andrew Woodford red and blue are better at getting them back. Kess? And cards of her ilk? Umm Grixis is a hard control shell and certainly works at it.
Those would be awesome commanders if you were going to build one of the proactive control decks they were talking about.
Depends on the commander which color is best. Nicol Bolas would be fine, Grixis has good control cards in its colors. I'm not much of a control player, but my favorite commander for control is Sen Triplets.
What graphic are they running in the background? Looks really sweet
I would love to know too where do they get the dynamic backgrounds
YAY!!!! Jumbo Commander!! I love your channel bro
Thanks for the love BUT more importantly thanks for going to an LGS that helps new commander players. You are making our format better. You rock
I'm unsure what I love more: Jumbo Commander or control decks. Either way, I love it!
If you are unsure, may I suggest that you love me more than control decks ... just ... you know, a thought
The discussion you guys were having made me think of a question. I don't know if this has been talked about before. But, in a 4-player game if you're going to make a play that makes you a "friend", at least for a while, which player is the best Target? The person who's turn is just before yours or just after yours or in between those two?
I read this comment a few days ago and didn't have a good answer but ... it haunted me. I got it now. If they are playing an aggressive deck then you want them right after you in turn order. They will refill the board before other players after wipes and get the first attacks in. They will also draw aggression away from you as other decks respond to the threat that just hit them.
If your "friend" is a more controlling deck then you want them to be right before your turn. That way they use their resources to respond to the table and you can make better decisions based off of what they just did. Agree? Disagree?
First of all, thanks for the replies! Second of all, what the heck are we both doing up so late? Third of all, yes, your response makes a lot of sense. The whole thing gets me to thinking more about table position and how much of a factor it is in determining a game's winner.
Marvel: "Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover event in history"
Me: How to Play Control with Jumbo Commander | The Command Zone #205 | Magic: the Gathering EDH
I have to say that most people wouldn't agree with you ... but I was way more hyped for this than I am for Infinity War :D
The Jumbo Zone Podcast!
Ahhhh I once had a control deck where I gave niv miz deathtouch then sat around with instant draw and had counter back up lol so I pinged my friends to death while keeping them under my thumb by threat of removing their entire board.........needless to say I wasn’t allowed to play it for long -3-
Most of my decks have controlling aspects to them... Always 4 board wipes... all my decks have removal for various issues... mostly creatures tho :/
In fact i only have 1 deck that has a singular game plan and that if it pulls it off it wins...
But I don't have a single dedicated control deck... i may think about making one tho... what are good commanders for control decks? i was thinking the best color palate would be Esper for control... maybe Sen triplets...
the giant d20 in the back... where can I get one??
Hey, I have one too. It's awesome. It's made by a magic fan: website is underthebridgegameco dot com
I'm going to show off the box on my channel in a bit if you want to see some videos on it. Let me know if you have any questions. I like the idea of supporting your fellow magic players especially when they make a cool product.
The secret to beating control is actually as simple as the definition of control given at the start of the episode. It is a deck with more answers than questions. One way to win is just to pose more questions within a key window where they are unable to produce enough answers. Have a threat that can consistently get through or have versatile threats. Having a non creature threat can go a long ways because it forces them to take a break from attacking your creature base.
Love jumbo commander. Grate video. Good topic. Good guest. And you got to play both agro and control to keep your mind balanced. :)
Thanks for the love and the advice. I totally agree. Playing an opposing deck really gives you a feel for what is important and what isn't.
Great chemistry with jumbo commander, love this episode!
My friend has a mono green elf deck and hall of gemstone HOSES control!
My two favorite channels at the same time. You guys rock
I've been a huge fan of Jumbo Commander for a while now! It's great to see him on the show!
Question in card kingdom cardkingdom.com/commandzone i can get card singles which free right?
As much as I dislike playing against a control deck, it does make me a better player and brings my game IQ up. Being a newer player I am often on the losing end, especially in my meta where guys have been playing for a LONG time. One of my favorite combo that had taken the control by surprise was the Mirage Mirror / Knowledge Pool. I learned it watching Jumbo Commander and that was a defining moment for me. First, none of those guys knew about it so there was an element of gained respect from it. Second, not only did it win the game but it did it when their stuff, not just taking control of creatures but casting their spells. Anyway great video you guys!!
Cards for control I tend to like are Wash Out, Evacuation, Aetherspouts, Mystic Confluence, and Austere Command, (aside from the obvious choices like wrath of god, supreme verdict, or cyclonic rift). Sphinx of the Final Word, and Nezahal, the Primal Tide are great threats/finishers. I'm yet to try out Hour of Revelation but it seems like it'd be pretty good in certain situations.
Came here for help because I'm building control for the first time, it's a format that I've always hated because on the other side of it, sitting in top deck mode unable to do anything isn't fun. (Here's my reasoning: If you encounter mass creatures, it doesn't take much to add a couple board wipes. Against big creatures, a few targeted removal etc. The only way to deal with control is to completely revamp your deck for that 'lower mana curve' or to make your deck a control deck.)
After a decade of avoiding it, I figured I'll give it a shot. Using Oloro, have omnicience and academy rector, rhystic study, necropotence, 8 counters, 4 board wipes, 7 planewalkers (ugin, karn liberated, elspeth, Teferi, Tamiyo, Jace tMS), contagion engine, 37 land, 9 ramp, Jin-gitaxis, memnarch, consecrated sphinx and other goodies.
I have the feeling that my deck is more of what the video says is 'good stuff' rather than a focused plan. I'm hoping to get feedback, I know the video is old.
Things I think are great as a control player : Modular Cards, Commands, Charms, even Supreme will. Especially as someone who has Kess at the helm of his control deck, going "Cryptic Command, Counter something Draw." then on my turn "Cryptic Command..bounce draw" is beautiful.
My ABSOLUTE favourite three card play in my Zedruu the greathearted deck is Perplexing Chimera, Eidolon of Rhetoric and Homeward Path!
Great video guys, absolutely love your funny and detailed discussions!
The nastiest EDH deck I've ever played against is with someone who plays with Daretti, Scrap Savant as his commander and can have him out on turn 1. Also has static orb, winter orb, and many other cards in it. Control decks focus so heavily on artifacts and enhancements, I like to use Return to Dust and Merciless Eviction in my deck (red, black, white with Edgar) and I use Blind Obedience to slow them down. If you're running a lot of artifacts for ramp, consider unwinding clock too.
My first commander control deck was built not too long ago, and it has the highest win percentage of all my deks. It's Rashmi Eternities Crafter. Last time I played it at a shop, I won the game and only dealt two damage the whole game. I made the other control player hold back his counter cause I tutored up Newlamog, and just held him in my hand for several turns, getting other threats and powerful spells like seasons past, which is amazing in a control deck, and Vorinclex out. Then I had way more than enough mana to cast ulamog+my own counters, and the other players scooped when I resolved ulamog.
Rashmi if you can resolve her and protect her with bots or greaves is a workhorse of a commander. The blue side of the deck wants to be reactive anyways, she rewards that by letting you ramp into your mana and your big plays while also giving you card advantage for things a control deck wants to do anyways. Big spells become free additional cards, small spells become cantrips, it wonderful. Even sweeter is the fact that the deck can function as a budget deck. I've added a few spendy cards to the deck, but at its core, the cards that make her work are pretty cheap.
@The Command Zone
hey guys, really love the channel. Just wanted ask if you guys could do an episode with the Battle Box Tribal Warfare from cardkingdom..would be fun.
Oh man dream come true!
There are several control decks in my local meta and it's always interesting to see how they're driven. I have a few decks that are particularly vulnerable to control, such as my theme heavy decks like Animar. To protect those types of decks I run things that prevent counter, such as Prowling Serpopard and Surrak. For my Captain Sisay deck, it's important that I get my spells off on my turn, so I run my own control spell in the form of Dragonlord Dromoka. If you're curious to see my decks, I have them listed on Tapped out.
tappedout.net/mtg-deck-folders/21-01-15-xvh-commander-decks/
I've found a lot of success playing control. Particularly with The Locust God. It might just be due to our playgroup, but having a bunch of small blockers out usually lets me sit back and just chumpblock anything.
My friends started all playing control, which suuuuper slowed down the games...So i put Saskia infect together.. they play other things now...
Hate if you must, but I have a mono white with Thalia, Guardian of Tharben some my 99 are Grand Abolisher and Vryn Wingmare, I don't struggle against control.
I didnt know this guy was called Jumbo Commander so I thought this topic was talking about playing a control deck with the oversized commanders :P (since having that puts more focus on you)
I miss more control strategy, like pillowfort and non-blue control decks, and more deck build cards medium/minimum ratio (% of counter, % of boardwipes) =/
Any threat you play gives you advantage NOW: Trinket Mage and Trophy Mage are amazing, they hold equipment very well. Garza is a really underrated card.
This is my control deck. It mainly plays a voltron subtheme to put a clock on my opponent when i lock down the board. Cards like umezawas jitte and sword of fire and ice really help pick off threats while also speeding up the clock on my opponents. Resolving an armegeddon/sunder/winter orb typically puts the deck in a well enoughy position where my opponents dont have the chance to rebuild in time to not die. Its alot of fun to pilot and its been a steady work of my entire magic career. Enjoy folks. tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ojutai-controlvoltron/
PS this list actually won me a commander tournament.
Since ultra pro reads the comment they can just read this and make a 100 pack full art eclipse sleeves like the full art sleeves dragon shield did ;). Not you average art sleeve but directly painting in the surface! Common ultra pro show us that you read comments xD!
Play the pace of the game! These guys touched on it quite a bit but still, it's an important aspect of playing "reactive" control decks. I've won countless games by being the "last man standing" and saving my card advantage until then. In my Sen Triplets deck (which sees automatic hate regardless of board state now) the best thing is to be able to predict how the game is going to go and play my threats\answers accordingly. One of my favorite ways to do this is Telepathy, it sure does draw out a lot of hate but if I can play it on turn 1 I will every time. Being able to see everyone hands so early in the game really gives me an inkling as to who is gonna threaten my board state or answer me, and who is going to play the threats that I have to answer, and then I can order how to play, or not play my cards. Draw, land, pass is the best turn you can have! Love this podcast you guys rule!
My friend decided that he loves to play a controlling Kruphix deck and so in response to that it built a very aggro Gruul deck with Xenagos to make my early creatures much more dangerous making him worry about 3-4-5 drop creatures and at the same time playing into every counter spell, when he threatens a counter or a cyclonic rift I never change my mind because if I don't than he gets away while holding the card still. One of the things that i always make sure to do when he does start having 7 mana to overload I always attack and cast during my second main phase in case I need to rebuild. Also avoiding the cast trigger is also a good dodge, things that let you place creatures, or to reveal, like lurking predators, all seem ways to null their decks power. A huge bane that i have found is like Jimmy said was ways to make them off balance and mess up timing. The importance of timing really seems like a make or break so Vornclex ruins timing for most every deck. Overall, I never play around control i just play through it to make it very hard to counter enough of my things and the others in my meta acknowledge that i do eat a vast majority of the spells so they tend not to crack back when they have the chance. My meta has 2 blue control decks out of 5 players and an Orzhov control as well. Since there are so may control I do a Craig and just junkyard dog on the first person to counter my spells and the other control decks use their counters to protect my spells because they know they need my favor to not die.
What should be noted. Although the format is different some things still remain the same. Even tho a lot of commander player ignore those basic guidelines.. If u cant go over the control strategy at the table -> take out the control player first. Even tho the player gets salty about being the priority target, u kinda have to. Specifically stacks. U HAVE to take out the deck first cause once it gets going u cant stop it anymore. Both the opponents and the player playing the control deck should really be aware of that. No salt needed just awareness on both sides.
Honestly the decks I play in commander I only use control to stop specific things normally. I find it's much easier to win when people stop playing the cards they know I will likely counter. Like my animar deck runs cards like will bender and glen elendra. They help my game plan and can protect my game plan. (Also will bender has got me extra turns before and that never gets old lol)
Try Hall of Gemstone if you're mono green. It's amazing how it shuts down controlly stuff during your turn while simultaneously screwing multi-color decks
Sometimes your irl mannerisms bait the aggro or the control player into overcommitting. I’ve had times where I’ve had a board wipe but just took some damage instead to give the opponent a false sense of security to “go for it” and walk into a game ending X-for-1 and essentially I traded some life for an insurmountable sum of advantage.
Is a creature less control deck feasible? That’s my ‘under construction’ deck right now. It’s very playable as long as I make an ally.
You kinda touched upon it with putting a name on it. But one of the things I do when I am in the control position in a commander game, is to attempt to keep track of who is the "critical player". Basically, if you have limited ressources to control with, it becomes less about the specific cards and more about which player you can influence the most, either by trying to control their plays and board position with your answers, or by helping/supporting them in taking down the player who is the biggest threat. The last one is often really great to do if your deck in general lines up well against them. Let them do the hard work, and while you support them, you try to move your own board into a position where you can take over vs their deck over 1-2 turns.
Sorry guys.. really?? How to play control?? That's not what we are here for.. just give us Game Knights if this is your new stuff
Too be fair mystical tutor is not really about card disadvantage in control decks but effiency. Often times you keep up mana for counterspells and in cases where you end up not countering you have essentially wasted mana. Mystical tutor and other instant cards lets you use that mana on your opponents end step instead. So technically it's card disadvantage but the nature of control decks makes it much better than say, worldly tutor in an elf ball deck.
Further I would argue that card advantage isn't as important in EDH since it is a singleton format, where some of your cards inherently will matter much more than others.
Countering the tutor can be correct. Even if you kill/counter that hermit druid/rhystic study etc it can then go to an accessible zone, the graveyard. Like you said, it's a spectrum and you have to learn what the right call is based on your answers and what you're up against.
I have this one playgroup where playing half the people play reactive decks, one of the worse games I've had with them was when we were 3 people with reactive decks. We just sat there, not doing much since nobody tried to win...
Against control when I play a red deck(like omnath locus of rage) I love to play price of glory. It says: whenever a player taps a land for mana during another players turn, destroy that land.
i pictured jumbo commander as a 17yr old boy when listening to his videos......unsubbed