I love the Heather / Courtney rivalry. It is not a typical rivalry between good girl vs bad girl, but between two competitors willing to do anything to win
Someone was always a bigger threat than her I guess. I mean Gwen always got far out of sheer luck and not being too bad at the challenges. Excluding Action, in World Tour she was wary of Alejandro and Courtney and in all stars the villain team was filled with strong competitors. Joe, Lightning, Alejandro, Scott, Duncan.
@@terellmitchell918 i don't know about it, i would rather see Gwen & Heather in the finale of Island, it was supposed to be them not Owen.. I would love too see the three of them, Gwen, Heather and Courtney in the finale of TDWT because they dynamic was so cool
@@kab00m_ they did, but not enough like they used to do in world tour. That season was shit anyways. Honestly i wish the three of them could become kind of besties at some point, like the hate & love dynamic between them was so real. But I don't understand why people keep saying Heather & Courtney are closer, like for real Gwen & Heather had more friendly moments in the show: - in Island they teamed up to beat the guys and they actually enjoyed it, didn't mind each other's company (Gwen even admired Heather's evilness at some point😂 - In the finale of Island Gwen friendly teased Heather about Chris (that's the scene when they already seemed as frenemies duo to me) - In Action Gwen chose Heather to be on her team and (unpopular opinion) I think in that season they should develop their friendship more instead of Leshawna & Heather. - In world tour and all stars both made a deal and agreed to vote Courtney off and people still saying Heather had better friendship with Courtney. I think the opposite actually, she respected Gwen more because despite their differences they both could actually put the team victory first not their feelings towards each other ulike Courtney in world tour (Heather did same thing to Gwen which Gwen to Courtney and yet Gwen preferred to win even if lets be honest she would have made a deal with Owen and Duncan to vote Heather off in that episode and I'm sure they would do it because they didn't like Heather either. Yet she chose the win and girl power while Courtney was trying to loose only to vote Gwen off (and that's why Heather teamed up with Gwen in the end, not because of Alejando). And of course I remember Gwen also did it in Action but it wasn't because she wanted to vote Heather off or something like that, it was her own personal issues. - They both know each other the most (they have always been in the same team), both are aware of each other's crushes. Heather knew Gwen liked Duncan and Gwen knew Heather liked Alejando, and Courtney her 'bestie to be' didn't and actually believed her when Heather denied her feelings? Like her feelings were so obvious, she should have known unless she just pretended to believe her to make yourself look good with the whole Alejandro thing. - Gwen and Heather had so much potential as friendship. Both were alike, determinated to win, made some mistakes to get whatever they wanted. Both were the most hated girls by others. And come on, old Heather & new Heather team? Iconic. I don't know why they made AS about Courtney and Gwen instead of developing Gwen & Heather friendship more. In fact they ruined their development by making Gwen hitting Heather for fun in their last scene (although it could be just playfull way but still the whole Heather talking to Gwen about her being as evil as she is, could also be handled differenntly. She could have simply tried to explain her why they aren't much different without the whole hurtting Courtney on purpose thing. Wasted potential if you Ask me. While all Heather & Courtney duo get is Heather pretending to comfort Courtney while in fact she enjoyed that the tension wasn't about her this time. And remember when Heather won World Tour? Everyone was happy for her including Gwen, everyone but Courtney. Lol.
@@duncan5627 I havent watched tdi in a long time but I remember heather and chef eliminating duncan heather did all the planning on the girls side gwen followed heather cuddled up to duncan then stole his and owens stuff so heather was still involved in duncan's elimination
To be fair this was because of heather’s jealousy since Alejandro was flirting with Courtney. With no Alejandro to flirt with, Courtney isn’t really an enemy.
Team Heather absolutely. Courtney is a cool character, but only in Island really: Action, World Tour and All Stars mad her dirty. Heather, on the other hand, was a GREAT antagonist in TDI and then a great anti-hero in Action and World Tour(All Stars wasn’t exactly her season but she made it kinda decent); also Heather is my all time Total Drama favorite character. Definitely Team Heather
Courtney just checked because she was going through a situation that a girl kissed the boy she was in love and knew how it Hurts. Plus, she couldnt be hypocrit. Not because she is friends with Heather, she doesn't even cared about Heather
Ok sure Heather won this round but if Courtney beat up Duncan than she can certainly beat up Heather. Because Heather is just a comeback machine and is particularly weak when it comes to actual fighting but Courtney on the other hand is slick and violent with others.
@@Metalagogo Also Heather is faster than Courtney remember when she ran from that bear and she out ran that duck in terms of strength yeah Courtney is strong but we didn't see that until she was with Duncan and broke up with Duncan I can think of 2 people who can match her Gwen and Sierra
@@gamingwithtdcoco Yes it might be true that Heather is faster than Courtney but she doesn't have the mental capacity to make out the situations she might be in like Courtney does. Because of Courtneys smarts, being fast is not always going to stop Courtney in fact Courtney has taken many classes of martial arts, has had training in the TDI business, had leadership training, and she has class in studying forensics. Courtney smarts could eventually stop Heather, it was even proved by the Blu productions Courtney would win the next TDI season coming up in the new series. They did not change a single thing about the characters and Blu Productions stated that Heather would be in the new season as well, she would potentially make it to the final three but she would be booted out for a special in the making. I respect your opinions but im trying to give a logical explanation of what was deemed against these two characters.
@@Metalagogo She may be smart but her smarts needs to be used the right way and not for greed because We know how greedy Courtney Can get so if she controls that she might have a chance
I love these two’s interactions so much. They’re the reason world tour is my favorite season bc i just love the way they are. neither take any shit from each other lmfao.
Heather’s VA does such a wonderful job tbh. She almost always speaks in a fake bitchy voice in island which she drops entirely in action and world tour. It highlights her maturing throughout the show.
@@marlkickou5480 why are you laughing? Noah was confirmed to be a villain in season one but they never went through with it his iq is 180 Izzy's is 188
I like Courtney better. She’s very strong and haves a strong body and she even took down a shark I remember. She is very talented and didn’t need to go through that shit. it was very fucked up for them to do that to her.
@@barackobama6715yes that’s obvious for world tour however in all stars Heather cared more about Gwen than Courtney and never mentioned anything about Courtney trying to lose on purpose.
Heather-Courtney okay Gwen goes home only if you promise me that You will not let me be out first voting me off alright? You promise not to vote me off today? Courtney-Okay Heather! I promise today I will not let you be voted off first Heather-🙂! Okay good 😊 thanks Courtney
I like heather,cz with her you know what to expect. Courtney on the other hand,is a fake nice girl...and as an abrasive personality too I prefer mean girls over fake nice girls honestly
The show did a good job on both of them. Heather is defiantly great. My moms name is Heather so it works for me. Team Heather. I also like Gwen because Her name used to be Heather lol😂
Heather: what? I'm not crazy. I'm just bald. Me: can it be both? Plus she was laughing maniacally about stealing someone's hair. Not to mention, she's been trying to steal people's hair instead of just wearing her wig and waiting for her hair to grow back like a normal person. I get she's bald, but that a bit too obsessie,, and she's way too patient to get her hair back.
I agree, I did not like her! She was okay in TDI I guess but after that I found her character really annoying and unlikable. At least Heather devolved better as a character!
@@danielmcallister7873 i get that feeling. I just can’t like her. The only season where Courtney is my favorite character is TDAS because she actually learns to become a better person
@@neveronhereXD With Heather, you’re able to root for her deep down because she’s confident in who she is and knows how to get what she wants. Courtney, on the other hand, maneuvers through everything by throwing fits 😒
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
I love the Heather / Courtney rivalry. It is not a typical rivalry between good girl vs bad girl, but between two competitors willing to do anything to win
Pick me girl she ain’t a good girl no offense courtney
I love Heather and Courtney. Especially as enemies. I would hate it if they were friendly.
Oof
heather really friendly with someone? nah
@@valeriasoledad3 what about alejandro sierra cody dj harold?
Whenever Courtney and Gwen gang up on Heather, I fall head over heels for both of them.
Heather would just befriend someone for her own advantage
It’s interesting how Heather always refused to send Gwen home.
I mean they shared some dark secrets in the first season so I’m guessing their close or she just was jealous for Alejandro.
@@DD-po2hh idk maybe the first time, but she refused also in All-Stars and it had nothing to do with Alejandro
Heather play fair in s3 and she has reason for her voting
Someone was always a bigger threat than her I guess. I mean Gwen always got far out of sheer luck and not being too bad at the challenges. Excluding Action, in World Tour she was wary of Alejandro and Courtney and in all stars the villain team was filled with strong competitors. Joe, Lightning, Alejandro, Scott, Duncan.
There were times she did want Gwen to go home
They're two of the best players of the game.
They why Courtney wasn't even once in the final?
@@terellmitchell918 i don't know about it, i would rather see Gwen & Heather in the finale of Island, it was supposed to be them not Owen.. I would love too see the three of them, Gwen, Heather and Courtney in the finale of TDWT because they dynamic was so cool
@@spencerdrake400 i agree. I hated how Gwen and Courtney barely interacts with Heather in All Stars
@@kab00m_ they did, but not enough like they used to do in world tour. That season was shit anyways. Honestly i wish the three of them could become kind of besties at some point, like the hate & love dynamic between them was so real. But I don't understand why people keep saying Heather & Courtney are closer, like for real Gwen & Heather had more friendly moments in the show:
- in Island they teamed up to beat the guys and they actually enjoyed it, didn't mind each other's company (Gwen even admired Heather's evilness at some point😂
- In the finale of Island Gwen friendly teased Heather about Chris (that's the scene when they already seemed as frenemies duo to me)
- In Action Gwen chose Heather to be on her team and (unpopular opinion) I think in that season they should develop their friendship more instead of Leshawna & Heather.
- In world tour and all stars both made a deal and agreed to vote Courtney off and people still saying Heather had better friendship with Courtney. I think the opposite actually, she respected Gwen more because despite their differences they both could actually put the team victory first not their feelings towards each other ulike Courtney in world tour (Heather did same thing to Gwen which Gwen to Courtney and yet Gwen preferred to win even if lets be honest she would have made a deal with Owen and Duncan to vote Heather off in that episode and I'm sure they would do it because they didn't like Heather either. Yet she chose the win and girl power while Courtney was trying to loose only to vote Gwen off (and that's why Heather teamed up with Gwen in the end, not because of Alejando). And of course I remember Gwen also did it in Action but it wasn't because she wanted to vote Heather off or something like that, it was her own personal issues.
- They both know each other the most (they have always been in the same team), both are aware of each other's crushes. Heather knew Gwen liked Duncan and Gwen knew Heather liked Alejando, and Courtney her 'bestie to be' didn't and actually believed her when Heather denied her feelings? Like her feelings were so obvious, she should have known unless she just pretended to believe her to make yourself look good with the whole Alejandro thing.
- Gwen and Heather had so much potential as friendship. Both were alike, determinated to win, made some mistakes to get whatever they wanted. Both were the most hated girls by others. And come on, old Heather & new Heather team? Iconic. I don't know why they made AS about Courtney and Gwen instead of developing Gwen & Heather friendship more. In fact they ruined their development by making Gwen hitting Heather for fun in their last scene (although it could be just playfull way but still the whole Heather talking to Gwen about her being as evil as she is, could also be handled differenntly. She could have simply tried to explain her why they aren't much different without the whole hurtting Courtney on purpose thing. Wasted potential if you Ask me.
While all Heather & Courtney duo get is Heather pretending to comfort Courtney while in fact she enjoyed that the tension wasn't about her this time. And remember when Heather won World Tour? Everyone was happy for her including Gwen, everyone but Courtney. Lol.
@@spencerdrake400 are you aware about the fact that nobody said Courtney and Heather were friends, right?
“What? I’m not crazy... I’m just bald” plsssss 💀💀💀🕴🏼
Lmao fr
Hahaha 🤣
It's funny how Duncan crushed on heather on tdi and now he doesn't like her
Prolly cuz heather eliminated him in tdi
@@gachaakiememes3255 no chef did u idiot
he didn’t really have a crush he just thought she was hot lol
@@duncan5627 I havent watched tdi in a long time but I remember heather and chef eliminating duncan heather did all the planning on the girls side gwen followed heather cuddled up to duncan then stole his and owens stuff so heather was still involved in duncan's elimination
Heather wasn’t trustworthy in Island.
Everyone talks about heather vs Gwen and leshawna, but heathers beef with Courtney is pretty good and underrated
I can't believe Courtney made an agreement with Heather a second time after Heather voted her off in world tour, kinda dumb of her not gonna lie
and she didi it again
Courtney was really dumb in TDAS
@@Herumbra Mostly a B I T C-
@@Herumbra everyone was dumb in all stars
To be fair this was because of heather’s jealousy since Alejandro was flirting with Courtney. With no Alejandro to flirt with, Courtney isn’t really an enemy.
Team Heather absolutely. Courtney is a cool character, but only in Island really: Action, World Tour and All Stars mad her dirty. Heather, on the other hand, was a GREAT antagonist in TDI and then a great anti-hero in Action and World Tour(All Stars wasn’t exactly her season but she made it kinda decent); also Heather is my all time Total Drama favorite character. Definitely Team Heather
On world tour courtney was decent
Agreed
Courtney: nothing gets past me
Heather (Cuts Courtney's hair).
i love heather but she had the iq of a caveman in all stars
you find the invincibility statue, and then just LEAVE IT THERE??
hilar0s, I am Still Team Courtney.
The fact courtney checked if Heather had feelings for Alejandro before flirting with him, YES THEY ARE BESTIES 🥰
If they were really besties she would realize Heather's obvious feelings for him, even Gwen knew she had crush on him.
They aren’t besties Courtney is just a nice person.
@@Naomi-xu4hq since when?
Courtney just checked because she was going through a situation that a girl kissed the boy she was in love and knew how it Hurts. Plus, she couldnt be hypocrit. Not because she is friends with Heather, she doesn't even cared about Heather
@@Ourlugardistante in my fantasy they are besties lol
Lets Say it. That triple with them and Gwen in Team Amazones in the first half of Season 3 was just too powerful
6:22 You know you’re obsessed when SIERRA calls you obsessed
“Nothing gets past me”
*didn’t notice Heather cut a lock of her hair off*
Its almost like its the joke
6:22 And This Coming From The Girl Who Obsess With Cody.
True lol the difference is Sierra admits she's obsessed with Cody. Takes one to know one lol
Ikr
🤣 good point
"Im not crazy, Im just bald"
Im gonna use it when i get older
0:22 aren’t we going to talk about how harold’s head looks broken?
2:09 bruh Heather whipping Courtney like we back in 1865 hold on 😂
Ok sure Heather won this round but if Courtney beat up Duncan than she can certainly beat up Heather. Because Heather is just a comeback machine and is particularly weak when it comes to actual fighting but Courtney on the other hand is slick and violent with others.
Heather Is better than Courtney
@@gamingwithtdcoco Elaborate please
@@Metalagogo Also Heather is faster than Courtney remember when she ran from that bear and she out ran that duck in terms of strength yeah Courtney is strong but we didn't see that until she was with Duncan and broke up with Duncan I can think of 2 people who can match her Gwen and Sierra
@@gamingwithtdcoco Yes it might be true that Heather is faster than Courtney but she doesn't have the mental capacity to make out the situations she might be in like Courtney does. Because of Courtneys smarts, being fast is not always going to stop Courtney in fact Courtney has taken many classes of martial arts, has had training in the TDI business, had leadership training, and she has class in studying forensics. Courtney smarts could eventually stop Heather, it was even proved by the Blu productions Courtney would win the next TDI season coming up in the new series. They did not change a single thing about the characters and Blu Productions stated that Heather would be in the new season as well, she would potentially make it to the final three but she would be booted out for a special in the making. I respect your opinions but im trying to give a logical explanation of what was deemed against these two characters.
@@Metalagogo She may be smart but her smarts needs to be used the right way and not for greed because We know how greedy Courtney Can get so if she controls that she might have a chance
I love these two’s interactions so much. They’re the reason world tour is my favorite season bc i just love the way they are. neither take any shit from each other lmfao.
I love both of them, literally best characters from the show. But if I have to choose, I choose Courtney.
I'd go for Heather
same
@@ijotit5668 no.
Get OUT
I personally choose Heather but I mean I can see why Courtney was a fan favorite.
These two queens are my favourite characters and Duncan ofc!
Courtney has literally the best Heather's qualities except she's actually a nice and genuine person i love her
Courtney has her own qualities
We didn’t even get 10 minutes of these two
Ik we need another season of them
I wish they would have formed a friendship between them instead of courtney and gwen
@@saynotoerrors4355 I would have liked them as frenemies
Can you do top 10 satisfying total drama eliminations
two queens
I love both but Heather is my number 1!💕
wait you’re that td writer on wp
@@orioti I've been exposed lol
Heather’s VA does such a wonderful job tbh. She almost always speaks in a fake bitchy voice in island which she drops entirely in action and world tour. It highlights her maturing throughout the show.
Heather and Duncans relationship us everything😂
Nope.
I still believe Courtney and Noah were supposed to be villains aside with heather
NOAH??🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@marlkickou5480 why are you laughing? Noah was confirmed to be a villain in season one but they never went through with it his iq is 180 Izzy's is 188
@TielMama777 Never said it did, and read my full comment, btw.
Even in Noah’s audition tape and label revealed that he was supposed to be antagonistic
0:28 GWEN'S FACEEEE-
"what i'm not crazy, i'm bald" 💀
My favorites
2:59-3:08 Courtney is spicy and smart
That's not spicy, that's venting
@@youjustgotburned3980 hating. for wut get a life.
@@JuliaEsAwesome thats not really hating, you sound more triggered than the first comment tbh
@@americanapple4608 why r u reading randoms comments made 6 months ago and replying to them.
for wut get a life.
@@JuliaEsAwesome you do realize your comment was a reply to a comment made 6 months before you replied right?
I like Courtney better. She’s very strong and haves a strong body and she even took down a shark I remember. She is very talented and didn’t need to go through that shit. it was very fucked up for them to do that to her.
@Cartoon Lad proves my point! Thank you for correcting me.
Courtney defeats 3 sharks in action
Courtney bribed 2 sharks to not eat her in all stars
What happened to my favourite character 😭😭😭😭
I love them 🥰
"MORE LIKE A BITC-"
PLSSSS
1:15 Bald Heather touching Courtney's hair: "great to havve your hairr..." 🤣🤣🤣 7:09 😂
The typical boss bitch rivalry. 😁😁😁
Heather vs Courtney. I’m on Team Heather.
Team Courtney
I’m team Courtney, always.
I’m on team Heather but I like Courtney a lot too.
@@kassimasinia3314 I’m team Courtney
Team Courtney
i have a feeling that would slap and fight eachtoghther offscreen
But court wud beat her to death
@@thestanofCS courtney wolf probadly do that if heather annoyed her way to much
Am I the only one who simps for Courtney? ;-;
U still simping?
@@shelbyy470 Yes ;-:
hell no, im a straight female and i simp for her
Me to
She was my bi awakening
2:05 Courtney sounded like Peach from Mario Kart using an item lol
2:41 gwen smiles in a few seconds
Heather >> Courtney
3:28 most iconic moment
3:30 if only she finished it.
“What I’m not crazy , I’m just bald!”
“i am a cit” “more like bitc-“ -heather and courtney tdwt
she almost tried tospell the b word😂
It really gives me a headache hearing Courtney say " I am a CIT", girl everyone knows that
"What im not crazy,just bald!"
Heather vs Courtney
Courtney
Team Amazon
Courtney (Leader)
Heather (Second in Command)
Gwen
Cody
Sierra
The Men are in some serious trouble! And I love it!
When I saw the title I was like “ OOoooOOo this is gonna get heated” . I was right 😂
This is so Awesome
Are we sure Eva is the one with Anger Issues?
I always root for heather
Courtney for the WIN😩👆🏿
3:30 Heather, this a a kids show
I love Courtney
💜Team 👑 Courtney 💜
Heather whipped Courtney
You’d think heather would hate Gwen more but you’re wrong
Heather is always determined to win, she hated Gwen, but Courtney was purposely trying to lose.
@@barackobama6715yes that’s obvious for world tour however in all stars Heather cared more about Gwen than Courtney and never mentioned anything about Courtney trying to lose on purpose.
@@eliseiscool2732 to be fair courtney helped alejandro in the wt final and gwen was cheering for heather
@@chande1404 well Gwen was cheering for Cody but not Alejandro so you got a point but honestly they kinda forgot about wt and country liking him
Perhaps Heather was unwilling to vote off Gwen because in Island the final 5 shared secrets
one of my favorite ships honestly lmao
Tne show is better when Courtney, Heather, Gwen and Lindsay are in it
They are so hot❤.
@@konstantindrevojorov3550what….
@@-emmathetotaldramafanbeauty and passion. I love them.
Don't forget Leshawna
I Love It A Lot
I think I had a little crush on Heather because She almost resembled Misty? Years ago!
Who is Misty?
@@konstantindrevojorov3550 I meant from the Pokémon Series. Heather looks identical to Misty from Pokémon.
@@Fan_of_The_Sailor_Scouts 👍
TEAM HEATHER. Screw Courtney
I agree! Courtney annoyed me!
she sounds like misty from pokemon espacially when she screams
Cmon we all agree heather wins
3:28 LOL HAHAHAHAHAAHA IN SPANISH THIS SCENE ITS DIFFERENT HAHAHAHAHAHA
WHAT WAS IT?
@@honeydewof7975 they changed the words
@@honeydewof7975 in spanish 'b-i-t-c' is remplaced whit 'loser' yeah so burred
3:30
Lmao 💀
Heather-Courtney okay Gwen goes home only if you promise me that You will not let me be out first voting me off alright?
You promise not to vote me off today?
Courtney-Okay Heather! I promise today I will not let you be voted off first
Heather-🙂! Okay good 😊 thanks Courtney
3:30 I agree with Heather lol!
3:48 lolll
Owen should have let the ball hit heather
Nope.
@@konstantindrevojorov3550 what
@@TalibTaylor83 Heather is a beautiful girl. Our queen.
@@konstantindrevojorov3550 No
@@TalibTaylor83 are you racist?
There head strong personalities mixed like a gas leak and Fire...no.
I like heather,cz with her you know what to expect. Courtney on the other hand,is a fake nice girl...and as an abrasive personality too
I prefer mean girls over fake nice girls honestly
The show did a good job on both of them. Heather is defiantly great. My moms name is Heather so it works for me. Team Heather. I also like Gwen because Her name used to be Heather lol😂
I say her whole “fake nice girl” is probably the show driving her insane
Destiny: I team heather!!
1:38 TF💀💀
3:30 …. Omg
Winner Winner Chicken Dinner
This Means "WAR" ! !
Heather vs Leshawna
Heather vs Gwen
Heather vs Courtney
Heather vs Universe
@@konstantindrevojorov3550 I mean, those 3 have arguably one of the most intense and long-running conflicts with Heather the most, in the series
@@user-ur5qn8im2b Heather The Great.
Courtney had more vs.
Courtney vs Gwen
Courtney vs Heather
Courtney vs Duncan
Courtney vs Lindsay (season 2)
Courtney vs Beth( season 2 too)
3:30 how did that get there like dang never thought they would go this far
I think heather is better
3:48 how does it feel when you are covered in blue
Heather: what? I'm not crazy. I'm just bald.
Me: can it be both?
Plus she was laughing maniacally about stealing someone's hair. Not to mention, she's been trying to steal people's hair instead of just wearing her wig and waiting for her hair to grow back like a normal person. I get she's bald, but that a bit too obsessie,, and she's way too patient to get her hair back.
I found it funny Courtney and heather were fighting over alejandro
3:29 Wait Heather, i thought this was a kids show
That had me dying 😂
Can you please do Sierra vs Heather next?
6:18
I’m detest to Courtney
I agree, I did not like her! She was okay in TDI I guess but after that I found her character really annoying and unlikable. At least Heather devolved better as a character!
Team Heather. I hate Courtney
I want to like Courtney so bad but like… she’s a bitch there’s no way around it 😭
@@danielmcallister7873 i get that feeling. I just can’t like her. The only season where Courtney is my favorite character is TDAS because she actually learns to become a better person
@@neveronhereXD With Heather, you’re able to root for her deep down because she’s confident in who she is and knows how to get what she wants. Courtney, on the other hand, maneuvers through everything by throwing fits 😒
@@danielmcallister7873 *She keeps bragging about being a damn C.I.T 😭*
*But she's a pretty*
as a courtney stan i completely agree lmfao😭😭
2:07 👹MUSH👹
Courtney by far
No
Plot twist. Heather has a crush on gwen. And is bisexual
Heather though 😳