I worked at my familys hardware store and theyve been using these for years to sell as a keyed master lock. They were always sticky at first but if you turn the lock about 20 or so times and beat the bottom against an anvil or so all the burs and pieces of pins come out and its as easy as a regular lock to turn. They were extremely popular among our customers.
4:20 .. that's how they go EVERY time :) ... they work .. but not really WELL until the key has been operated a few dozen times ... OFTEN a bad hit (like you made the first time) will scrap the lock .. I use a 2 pound hammer to set mine .. Master used to make a HUGE bench mounted tool to set these.
@@MikkoRantalainen It was just a mechanical lever how fast it went was depended solely on how fast you pulled the lever. The main advantage of it was it was always perfectly square to the lock face, before shearing attempt.
I have a feeling this lock is rather vulnerable to a brute force, but non-destructive attack. Try inserting any thin piece of steel or another random key, grabbing it with vice grips and turning it quickly to shear the pins again. The lock would still work with the original key and (unless you break off inside the lock) the user would be none the wiser.
I had the same feeling too, but I think the way LPL used the hammer, twice, it would probably be harder to twist than we imagine, at least with pocket sized tools. Would be great to see it tried though. I can only think of 2 possible preventions to this... zero-lifting the pins probably won't position the break-away gap to the sheer line; secondly, by splitting the pin, I reckon that would diminish the length a tiny amount (reducing the gap size) which could offset a second break gap position by a half depth or something (assuming specs are tight)... I mean these are just potential theories but yeah it's Master after all so who knows.
I worked as a locksmith for a bit and I absolutely HATED these things. Lol. The common practice in our shop was to first make a copy of the customer's original key and use the copy to set the pins. The key being stuck in the lock was incredibly common as well as not getting a solid first-strike-set. Most of the time, if you didn't get a clean set on the first hammer blow, there were gonna be complications. Great video as always, sir. Keep up the good work.
I never knew I would be so fascinated with locks. I've watched about 30 of your videos in just the past week since I found this channel. I appreciate your very fair and honest input and love the content. Thanks for helping me find a new interest!!
As a locksmith I always lubricate these with TriFlow BEFORE I hit the tool with the hammer. Master Lock's own instructions call for lubricating beforehand and running the key in and out once before hitting it with the tool . We sell these by the hundreds when a customer needs locks keyed in a hurry to existing locks they already have.
@@meade6291 I have found over the past year that these are getting worse - must be some quality control or something, and after keying them the keys are difficult to slide in and out.
@@ijsmale I teach my crew to tri-flo and then run the key in & out several times then strike it crisp and hard. We haven't had any issues, but we're a hardware store so we don't do a ton of them.
I bought three of these at least fifteen years ago. Two are still in regular service. The third was working when misplaced. As I recall, the guy at Home Depot did the setting for me. They work smoothly and I never had any problem with inserting or removing the key.
I got one on EBay a while back without a key. They said it was a Professional version. I tried to pick it. Now I realize I screwed up. It was un-keyed. Argh! Thank you so much for the video.
I worked as a locksmith when these were first released. On paper they seem great as a lock is "keyed" with the swing of a hammer. But in practice they are kind of terrible. Keys were always difficult to insert and remove. Plus 1-2 locks per dozen would not work after being set. It's also a one-time "keying", so the money saved by buying these locks was lost the next time they needed to be rekeyed. We'd get them working in the shop with a squirt of lubricant, but that's not going to keep them working long. We finally gave up on them and went back to the traditional removable cores as those can be rekeyed, or even rebuilt several times. Saving money is rarely the same as buying the least expensive product.
@@autopartsmonkey7992 The first pin drops into a channel, which is supposed to stop the core from being pulled out again. When he initially sheered it the core was sticking out, with all of the slots off by one. It's now been shunted forward into place. So you'd have to grip the core and pull it out again somehow, also breaking that first pin that's holding it in place.
@@wolffang489 it's takes a hammer strike to shear the pins, even the it takes 2 shots. They are no weaker the alot of anti pick pins. If you twisting a key hard enough to shear them your gonna need a real strong key. And with a key that strong you can go around and do it to any pin in most locks.
After wacking the key in I always take a large flat head and smack the edge of the metal around the keyhole at 3 o clock and 9 o clock to bend the metal down to hold the core in better. Makes the key removal much easier. 1 or 2 out of a box of six often fail during keying. Also worn or bad copy keys will cause problems if you Key it to them.
God I had so many problems with them when I worked for another company other than my own which I do now. People would bring in a 20th generation copy of a key to "key up" these 1UP padlocks they would bring in with the official master tool. The official tool has a tapered shoulder and is supposed to peen down the base plate so the core can't come out but we had them fail all the time, or not work with all the copies of keys floating around etc. The shop I worked for didn't even know how to code cut keys even though they had the equipment to do so.
@@jovinryan62 I was just thinking about your comment a lock with a built in key but requires another key to use it .. you could possibly get some kind of prototype together where a lock cylinder had 2 security bar's but the bars acted more like sliders and the key aspect of them would be when you slide a key into the cylinder it catches the 2 bars sliding them into place before actually letting the key hit the pins or even as the key hits them and you can even split the bars on different levels so it would have more pick resistance
As an old locksmith I keyed up hundreds of these. I always used triflow down in the cylinder first. After a couple of smacks it was a crap shoot as to whether or not the key would come back out. If you can turn the key both ways it would generally come out. If it would only turn one way then it almost always held the key and pliers were needed.
As much as we always make fun of Master Lock, they still are a huge company that makes a ton of interesting products. I find this lock intriguing, but don't see the market or demand for it?
R.P. Rosen well lets think the casual user doesn't want a lock they have to have tools and spend time rekeying, the lock isn't for informed people who want high security and it isn't realy useful for companies because they want to have one key for several locks but they still want a durable and easy to use locks that work well
Yeah I was going to comment. That this lock was only available to locksmiths back in the day. But LPL beat me to it. Funny because I have the tool but not the locks. I didn’t think they even existed outside of a few collectors items and especially one that wasn’t keyed yet.
These are useful as construction locks where your chaining up scaffolding or job boxes on several floors or different job sites. Everyone on your crew has the same key so you can replace or add locks as needed. High security is not always required, you just want to keep the stuff from walking away or being borrowed randomly.
I hate setting these at work. One out of six (on average) totally fails. I set two yesterday one wouldn't turn without lifting the key. The key was new and fully seated b4 setting. And the second turned but the shackle spring had already failed.
When I ran the family hardware store I sold a lot of these. The "key" to get them to set and work more smoothly is to run the key in and out several times before striking the setting tool. A heavier hammer is best like a machinists hammer (mini sledge) 2# ish. Claw hammers do not have all their mass centered on the striking surface for a clean blow.
That is an interesting lock. I like how the pins end up.all serrated. I get the impression that the purpose of this lock is not to make your own key, but to key it alike with another lock and key you already have. Master did something right. Still not a high security lock, but better than standard pins and a cheap easy way to gain another lock keyed the same as an existing lock.
OMG thanks for this video! I bought that lock here in Germany 2 years ago (on ebay or so) as an easy lockpicking lock to start learning lock picking, but could never open it and was always confused about that core sticking out a little. First I thought I was just so bad at lock picking, that I can't even open a master lock. Then after training on other locks, I thought it must be broken (due to the core sticking out a bit. Now I know what the issue was. Thanks a lot!
I can see taking a pin that has middle of the line bitting and then just running the procedure to snap the pins as similarly done via the initial keying procedure. Turn the key hard as if you were trying to impression a key and find a way to snap a new shear line. Maybe an impact drill with a standard screwdriver bit in the chuck?
I find it hilarious that the only remotely pick resistant Master lock was made unintentionally. Its resistance was accidental to the desire to make keyable locks cheaper.
given the relative weakness of the pins and the convenient 'screwdriver' slot provided, how well would the lock last against a big screwdriver twisting the core?
+ThrowingItAway Nah, if you have a nice lever it will probably work... Maybe a pair of pliers on the lock and a ratchet with a flathead bit. You don't need to smack it, if you apply the equal amount of torque they will snap.
I work in the oilfield in Oklahoma and have a case of those locks never knew thay had a tool to key them I always just put the key in and hit the key with a hamer thay are stiff after keying either pulling the key out or closing the lock thay typically free up after a month of being opened and closed every day I had one lock jam up and wouldn't close I turned the lock upside down and taped it with a hamer and a piece of brass pin fell out a after that the lock worked fine also you should try freezing a master lock in liquid nitrogen and hitting it with a hamer to open it
Ive used 2 of these. One was destroyed trying to take the key out and Canadian tire replaced it and the second one worked just like yours. Took about 10 minutes of locking and unlocking to free the key. As far as I know the lock still works
I DO have one of these locks, as I had some older Master locks, and had a use for another one and wanted it to work with the same key as the rest of them. I too had the same experience you had. I inserted the key, and drove the cylinder in. It landed home with one firm punch, but same as you, the key didn't want to come back out of the core. A swift jerk with a needle nose, and it came out. The key DID feel funny for a month or so for daily use but it did always work, and just as you suggested, after it "wore in" during that first month, it worked just like any of my other locks. I was worried that the initial tightness and weirdness was going to destroy my key, and it would end up not working in my other locks, but that did not happen.
The reason why the key would not come out is because the lip over the cylinder of the outside of the housing has to be bent inward to accommodate for the plug not to just come out of the housing. Just like when you have tolerance in an outward of the plug, the plug tends to retain the key. If you look at Master Lock tool it accommodates for this. It's shears the pins and also caps the outer housing of the plug at the same time
When I was in the military there was a lock like that except you would simply put the key in then turn it counter clockwise then a full 360 and then it would be keyed. The lock was a nightmare because unless you did the counter clockwise turn first it would permanently jam in such a way that you would never get the lock off of whatever you put it on without damaging something. We also had this strange pin in some of our locks that had a piston and spring like mechanism that would allow you to push the pin into a position that if you didn't get it just right afterwards you would break the lock the moment you tried to turn it. That lock was only used in extremely high security situations and it couldn't be have any more than one key in existence at any time. I don't know everything about that lock but I do remember that unless you had some very special keys that they didn't allow you to have outside its shroud every military locksmith I talked to about them said they couldn't be picked and they were also nearly impossible to open unless you knew everything about that specific one.
Because of you I bought my first set of picks 3 weeks ago. I bought my second set this morning. An older friend I was talking to about lock picking expressed interest. He bought my clear locks n pick set, so I upgraded!
Hi LPL I have the tool for this I will send you the pictures. It uses a slow moving operation to shear the pins. I think the method you used may have burred the pins causing the issue you had removing the key.
Something that would be interesting to see would be if you could re-sheer the pins using an impact driver and a bit of steel shaped like the key (the warding not the bidding) and knowing the 5UP has those pins to see if that would work. That could also be a new 'Destructive' video series for you. "Will an impact driver open it?"
The press designed for these shears the pins smoothly where the key doesn't stick Smacking with a hammer will work it causes the pins to bounce and can cause burrs
In the shop I worked in we had a fixture the lock would set in and a lever to press the core home We usually did 60-70 of these locks at a time ( government contract)
Master lock’s instructions indicate using a hammer. See: th-cam.com/video/aAf3yO88p2U/w-d-xo.html And I’m surprised that a government contract allows use of these pins. That’s not good.
I know its 2 years later but I work at a hardware store where we key these commonly for farmers. The keys actually do get stuck quite often but normally after applying either graphite lube or Kroil and fiddling with it they become easier. Also not all the pins sheer correctly some actually get jammed and makes it not work, it wont unlock but the key is still retrievable.
Worked as a locksmith for a very long time in college and beyond, and yeah, the 5UP was a pain in the ass. Great for stuff that wouldn't be used a ton, but needed a ton of work to get smooth.
I have often shear metal using brute force for personal projects, and the trick is to go hard all in one go, that way, the metal more shatters at the stressed point rather than bending and dragging
My grandfather used one of these to lock his trailer for years, and it got to the point where you could easily open it with a screwdriver, much easier then using the actual key.
From one Harry to another................ The Master lock keying tool gets wider near the tip to prevent driving the plug too far. In spite of that, keys would always get stuck and be very hard to remove if you hit the tool to hard. I admit, I messed up a few of these before I got the hang of it. -Eric W.
We key a lot of these at the hardware store. The shearing pins leave some brass debris inside the lock. A few taps with the opening facing down shakes out quite a bit of it, but until then they are often a bit rough. We've had a couple get overset by the keying process; not sure if something bends out of shape or what, but they're useless if you swing that hammer too hard.
In the long term they are actually OK ... the older they get the smother they work ... it RARE instances a heavy handed user MIGHT be able to re-shear one of the pins by using the wrong key .. IF all depths match except one ...
Had to key up 96 master #3's and I can confirm all 96 of them where gritty or sticky on the inside. I find if you use moderate pressure and one really good swing with Teflon lubrication afterwards it helps release the key easier.
I have seen these and thought they might be slightly better than a standard Master Lock, but I believe these pins are susceptible to a brute force core turn. Basically turn it into a zero bitted lock by using a screwdriver to turn/shear a zero bitted set up. Either that, or insert a bump key and twist.
I used to use three if these at my old workplace. Two of the three locks were sticky, but the third was really easy to open. The two that were sticky were on rooms that were used for storage of random items. Both were opened 2-3 times a week on average. The third was on a janitor closet which was opened multiple times a day. I worked there for 10 years and don't recall the locks every changing. We used these kind I assume to keep keys the same as that same key also opened a few other locks in the building.
Have keyed some of these at our hardware store. The guy who sold them to us warned me to always ask the customer for their best key to use, and then to make a copy of it to use during the "keying" process. That way if the key stuck in or was damaged, you could junk the lock make another copy and try again. Expensive, but happier customer.
I am locksmith. The failure to remove a key freely is likely a burr from the striking the core. A Teflon based lubricant might help, I prefer DuPont’s as it’s all weather as well. The application for such a lock. It would have to be entities who use padlocks often and want to key alike to existing keys without factory order. It’s master’s way of avoiding special orders, slowing down production and cost avoidance of processing such orders. Better success when violently pinning the lock by using a “rap under the key bow head” slam tool so the sheer pressure is directly down in the top of the plug pin chamber.. That and getting the right snap force down pat may help avoid burrs. I agree with other reviewers - brute force of the plug could cause a shear line compromise. I am impressed at the ingenuity and yet have a dissatisfaction in the operation.
This is all just for fun, because the lock sucks.... but all the shear force is being applied LATERALLY, not ROTATIONALLY. This is probably the only saving grace to minimize distortion. Use of the fixture is essential, but they later came out with what looks like a following tool for the DIY. I refused to sell these at all, favoring the ProSeries MAster and American brand
Several of these I sprayed lock lube in, and a couple with out.... Due to the location and metal shroud that covers my hasps, I am constantly dropping these locks on the ground, as is it a blind and confined space.... the units with out lube lock, that i dropped in the dirty water, end up freezing, in a bad way, even beating the key and or the lock is an absolute pain in the a$$, lol.... But, the other units, never any issues, and in have dropped them in dirty water also... I suppose water displacement on the 40th try formulas (WD-40) may help if the lock is frozen with dirty water in winter time, but, WD-40 seems to disappear or evaporates in time... A proper lock lube I recommend...
D Hawthorne, I work at a locksmith company that's been in business for almost 40 year's. Great locks for there price, the older they get the harder they are to pick (usual rust/dirt/misc inside the chamber and ball bearings). Using just a regular brass key blank does not work. It will just break the key head off and leave the broken blank inside which is relatively easy to extract. Possibly with a steel blank have never tried.
Watching this and seeing the key stuck, "Welp. It is now UNPICKABLE! Way to go Master Lock! You made something that can't be picked!" Can't pick something when the key is still in it *taps head*
We used these when shipping certain materials, or as temporary locks when setting up work sites. For the most part, they are a way for a client to specify how the container would be locked, by sending a rep with keys from the receiving end who would set the pattern, not just of the keys but the lock positions and orientation. This would be for high volumes of materials like gold, platinum etc. in a state that was not raw, but not pristine, and usually involved 8-10 locks and a record sheet with the key codes and orientation of each lock in that grid. The rep would then return with the keys and the record sheet and wait for the load. The other use we had was when setting up work sites for demolition and/or rehabilitation. When we first set up, these worked as temporary locks until the appropriate official locks were presented so inspectors and such could access, or if the scheduled key holder was ill. Being as all the materials were metals, we were able to recycle them as specialized scrap and brass. It just made things easier, albeit pricey.
Clever, but the first thing i thought of was "how in the world is it going to shear cleanly?" and of course the key was hard to use. I wouldn't be surprised if these locks suddenly just stop working one day. I would never use this on something important where i need to open in a hurry. So basically.. on nothing. Still, clever idea.
Backwards actually - they get better over time. The materials used here aren't going to shard off into little pieces to get jammed in a fashion that will seize the mechanism, they just aren't that brittle. Since these materials are pretty soft(relatively speaking, it's not like a super soft babbit materiel or anything, but it certainly isn't hardened steel), they stay together, and it's basically the burrs, rough edges, inevitably somewhat misshapen pins that get worked out in use. Again, since this these are relatively soft materials, the rough edges, burrs, even misshapen pins will wear in with use. However, given the way that this is designed to work, the amount of energy being exerted in a split second inside there, yea, you're going to end up with the occasional lock that's seized after 'pinning', likely caused by a badly bent pin. But, if it works from the moment you 'pin' it, you're just not realistically in any 'danger' of a core seizure than with any other lock. There just isn't any way for that to realistically happen. They may not exactly offer 'class leading security', MasterLock... ...but, they still employ engineers that understand materials science, and this would be as simple as making a bunch of batches of these, each batch with a set of pins with a different rockwell hardness than the pins of the previous and next batches of locks, start with one number(say, 30) and work up to another(say, 45, testing every or every number in between there or something of the such); then, take your batches of locks, use them as designed, record the data: what worked fine, what took some working in, what was difficult/impossible to work without the aid of a tool, and what has seized(or something of the such). Test the batches of locks, narrow down the field, continue further testing & refining until you end up with the dead nuts correct material properties for the given purpose. I really like the idea and certainly wouldn't be afraid to use it myself - worst case scenario, it's still just your standard entry level lock, tools will make short work of it if something were to actually happen. Hell, go to Harbor Freight and buy a $15 angle grinder if need be, cut it off, then you can trash it or throw it in a corner, doesn't much matter for $15 LOL.
I have a 6 types of these locks for years. I been going to my local Lock Smith for yrs as well. I bring him a Master padlock & get a duplicate, He asks for a spare key that in the best condition, so he can make the lock work. If you bring a older key that is worn from that older lock a spare key that was never used later may not work in the new re-keyed lock. They all work great no issues. I keep one new spare key & never use it for the purpose of making a new one when needed. This is the Key to the success for these locks to work properly.
It an interesting idea but since you break the pins to key it in the first place, whats to stop someone from forcing the core to turn by breaking them again.
My shop uses these locks all the time. The most important things are to use a factory cut key and to really whack it when setting it. Two hits leaves more burrs and they will be a lot stickier, similar to yours. Overall they are decent cheap locks that have their purpose.
Came across a couple of these on my mothers fire bus, Had trouble using the key but picking was easy, I didn't know what "5Up" was until I googled it, Did basic maintenance and prep work on the buses before fire season so I had the opportunity to clean up and pick various cheap locks, When I first tried to open the 5Up with the key it refused to turn untill I lubed it with dishwashing liquid, It was all we had at the time so I did it out of desperation to get it open. Overall I would steer clear of this lock and any other masterlock product. Cheers from Northern California.
johnnykache1000 It's usually a retired school bus that's used to carry fire crews ahead of and around fires to clear fire lines around wildfires, sometimes they can be clunky and old but they get the job done.
We sell these at the locksmith shop I work at, and they definitely need to be "worked in" a lot, before being smooth. And sometimes they never really feel great
I’ve used many of these for my customers. Once the pins are set they work pretty well. You do need to work them quite a bit until they move smoother. Problem is using worn keys to set the lock, it works but they can be a little tough to set and work smooth. The other problem is a customer with multiple key copies will have a problem with varying wear on the keys which translates to keys working great to not at all.
Hey LPL, how do you think one of these would stand up to a carbon steel key blank twist attack, like is used for a Kwikset Smartkey? If you had a very torsionally strong tool shaped to fit the keyway, and “bitted” to push all the pins up to a point where the “serrations” were in the shear line, don’t you suppose a big, hard twist would simply break the pins again and make another shearline?
I wonder if you could still beat this with a comb. I also wonder if you could pick this lock by “rekeying” it by forcefully turning something strong in the lock.
We sold these locks at the ace hardware that I used to work at. Almost always the keys were difficult to remove after keying them with the master lock tool. However, as you found, after working the key a few times they typically loosened up. The master lock tool that uses the ratcheting method provides a less violent keying experience and probably does not produce as many shears and burrs on the inside of the lock mechanism. Either way works though!
I work for a harbor that uses these to secure boxes of bumpers and such. Makes it so you can match the locks up to a common key. The long term durability is NOT good, and as they wear out, they become MUCH less secure (well, less secure at the keyway, we all know how insecure the masterlock design is anyway). They are also VERY rough on keys. People's keys sometimes wear down from use in the newer locks in a matter of weeks. I have also witnessed a few of these that, for whatever reason, just simply fell apart and spilled the pins all over the ground.
If it just falls apart, its likely that it was matched to a key with a very extreme bitting on cut one, leaving a very small piece of pin for the retention groove. Over time or with rough use such as being repeatedly jostled and worked to get the key out, the pin either wore down or the core was simply pushed or pulled past the tolerance and the pin slipped the groove andnrhe core came out of the mech.
@@metamorphicorder Hm. If that pin segment falls part way into that groove at the front, could it be bounced or tapped back into the shell if the whole thing is turned upside down?
Used to work at a hardware store where we regularly keyed these for customers. Never used a hammer, we had a vise-like mechanism you would sit the lock in with the key and that tubular tool. Then just turn it really quickly and it would jam that tool into the lock. We would regularly have keys that wouldn't come out of the lock at all so we would make a copy of the original before punching the lock.
That looks like the lock our school had issued at the start of the school year. They also had a hard time opening it up when a person had lost their key. As a result, they removed all of those locks and issued combination locks to all students. I still remember that combination some 50 years after the time it was handed to me. Right 2 times to 30, left back to 48, and right to 6
I maintain a mobile home park that has a pool area, with a fence around it that we lock up at night, and sometimes because of storms here in Florida. The locks that were there before started failing, so we replaced them with these locks because we didn't want to distribute new keys to all the different maintenance people that need to get in after hours. We replaced these locks about 3 years ago. With them being opened 2-4 times a day and being left out in the weather/rain a few inches off the ground, they have held up quite well. I have found one oddity, 1 of the 2 lock's key will rotate past the normal stop point and will rotate 360 degrees. It will try to bind up only if you turn too far.
Used to sale these and key these all the time. Definitely have had the key sticking issue. Best way to minimize it is to turn the lock so that the pins are up before keying. You also want to rake the key through the un keyed lock a dozen times or so before keying. Was awesome to finally see how the guts work on these bad boys.
We used to sell quite a few of these when I was at my old shop, primarily to commercial customers who needed a lot of cheap, semi disposable, low security padlocks keyed all alike company wide. It actually makes a lot of sense in that instance, since the cheap master padlocks can't usually be ordered to a specific key after an initial order, unless you're buying A LOT of them direct from Master Lock. And YES, they DO almost always required quite a bit of "breaking in" when first pinned... I found that out when we had to do 50 of them for a customer and the boss "volunteered" me for the task to "learn the lock" as he put it.... A fresh code cut key with no wear works better than a key that already has a fair amount of wear (as the customer's key almost always does in these situation)... but for almost every one I'd have to work it with pliers a few dozen times before it would "wear in". It took virtually all day to do all 50 because of this. (and for the record, we did have the tool from Master Lock, so home/shopmade tools don't mitigate it)
I used to sell and key these for people. The trick is one sharp strike to set the pins. If you tap it multiple times it seems to cause the pins to not shear cleanly and causes more binding than when done with one hit. All of them felt gritty and the keys did not want to go in or come out easily but never anything suck like you had.
no better than any other number 5 master lock. this 5up is for those who need to keep a number of locks in use and do not want a different key for each lock, sure you can buy "sets" but future locks bought much easier this way. i had bought a couple of them and was not impressed. after years of use i do not know one from the other.
They used to offer a Residential Knobset that was similar. It did have a clip to retain the plug (it is NOT a "core" it's a plug) It was place in a special vise which you turned until the pins broke. They stopped selling those around 1996 when Schlage bought them and then discontinued them. I very seldom run into them any longer. When they are rekeyed, the entire pinstack is dumped and rebuilt.
![[687] U.S. Military “Miracle Lock” with Ingersoll 10-Lever Core Picked and Gutted](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FCY5iXqPOUc/mqdefault.jpg)
![[687] U.S. Military “Miracle Lock” with Ingersoll 10-Lever Core Picked and Gutted](/img/tr.png)
![[1432] Inside Perspective: Picking Serrated Pins](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/muPJjTBuYHY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[552] "Pickproof" Dual Cylinder Disc Brake Lock Picked](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dd-ZIIcgzPI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[1398] A Padlock I’d Use: Abus Granit 37RK/80 (Pick & Gut)](/img/n.gif)
Complication: Key has been embedded into the core.
Result: Very difficult to pick.
Yeah, that'd be pretty effective to stop picking
Is that a mother freaking KOTOR reference?
@@sunglassesdude4819 you know it
Or, no picking necessary since the key is still in the core.
Robert Oswalt yeah but if you wanted to pick it couldnt
I'm not even into locks, and the LockPickingLawyer has me coming home after work like..."Hmmm, I wonder what I can learn today about locks"
Matt Roberts dude same I just got home from work and first think I did was sit down in bed and start watching this video
I watch these over my lunch break lol
This channel is more relaxing for me than any ASMR
I've started to realize how integral locks are in our daily lives and his videos are just so relaxing and nice
Matt Roberts ** yeah ... I think he lives in a PRISON CELL. And only pretends to go into another room. Have you ever seen his WHOLE room/cell?
Would love to see the resulted pins in that lock now.
I agree
I wonder if you could put in the wrong key and twist it with a wrench to shear the pins again.
@@Skunkgasm I was wondering the same thing.
@@Skunkgasm If the initial key had lower ridges than the the latter, they should all be sheerable with enough force
@@Skunkgasm the key would snap. you would need something like tempered steel
I worked at my familys hardware store and theyve been using these for years to sell as a keyed master lock. They were always sticky at first but if you turn the lock about 20 or so times and beat the bottom against an anvil or so all the burs and pieces of pins come out and its as easy as a regular lock to turn. They were extremely popular among our customers.
Thanks. 👍
Try to use some lock lube
I would like to see what the pins look like after setting the key. I'm pretty sure they would be rough looking.
disappointed you didn't dissect it after, for science!
After some lube and use it gets smooth relatively quickly and much quicker than I would have thought
RoastBeefTaco that’s what she said!
@@Smash_Gravy ^_^
Tom Collins how to you pick this one oh easily just insert any key and force it.
4:20 .. that's how they go EVERY time :) ... they work .. but not really WELL until the key has been operated a few dozen times ... OFTEN a bad hit (like you made the first time) will scrap the lock .. I use a 2 pound hammer to set mine .. Master used to make a HUGE bench mounted tool to set these.
Thanks.
@@lockpickinglawyer lol use hammer better bro
Do you know if the original tool was more like a hydraulic press or something that shoots the core in rapidly?
@@MikkoRantalainen It was just a mechanical lever how fast it went was depended solely on how fast you pulled the lever. The main advantage of it was it was always perfectly square to the lock face, before shearing attempt.
@@lockpickinglawyer lol you can't even use a hammer bro
I have a feeling this lock is rather vulnerable to a brute force, but non-destructive attack. Try inserting any thin piece of steel or another random key, grabbing it with vice grips and turning it quickly to shear the pins again. The lock would still work with the original key and (unless you break off inside the lock) the user would be none the wiser.
D Hawthorne was about to suggest the same thing.
Had the same idea. Please try this!
Yes, was thinking the same :-)
I had the same feeling too, but I think the way LPL used the hammer, twice, it would probably be harder to twist than we imagine, at least with pocket sized tools. Would be great to see it tried though. I can only think of 2 possible preventions to this... zero-lifting the pins probably won't position the break-away gap to the sheer line; secondly, by splitting the pin, I reckon that would diminish the length a tiny amount (reducing the gap size) which could offset a second break gap position by a half depth or something (assuming specs are tight)... I mean these are just potential theories but yeah it's Master after all so who knows.
If it allows "9" cuts, then you could make it work without a key.
I worked as a locksmith for a bit and I absolutely HATED these things. Lol. The common practice in our shop was to first make a copy of the customer's original key and use the copy to set the pins. The key being stuck in the lock was incredibly common as well as not getting a solid first-strike-set. Most of the time, if you didn't get a clean set on the first hammer blow, there were gonna be complications. Great video as always, sir. Keep up the good work.
I never knew I would be so fascinated with locks. I've watched about 30 of your videos in just the past week since I found this channel. I appreciate your very fair and honest input and love the content. Thanks for helping me find a new interest!!
I watched 30 Videos on one day when I found his channel 😄
I love these videos. And am in the same position as you Clloak. Nothing is safe anymore though.
As a locksmith I always lubricate these with TriFlow BEFORE I hit the tool with the hammer. Master Lock's own instructions call for lubricating beforehand and running the key in and out once before hitting it with the tool . We sell these by the hundreds when a customer needs locks keyed in a hurry to existing locks they already have.
I never got instructions from Master Lock just experience over time and I came to the same conclusion that you have
@@meade6291 I have found over the past year that these are getting worse - must be some quality control or something, and after keying them the keys are difficult to slide in and out.
@@ijsmale I teach my crew to tri-flo and then run the key in & out several times then strike it crisp and hard. We haven't had any issues, but we're a hardware store so we don't do a ton of them.
I bought three of these at least fifteen years ago. Two are still in regular service. The third was working when misplaced. As I recall, the guy at Home Depot did the setting for me. They work smoothly and I never had any problem with inserting or removing the key.
I got one on EBay a while back without a key. They said it was a Professional version. I tried to pick it. Now I realize I screwed up. It was un-keyed. Argh! Thank you so much for the video.
mike94560 you try to pick it with the core out like that?
How is your job at NASA going?
I worked as a locksmith when these were first released. On paper they seem great as a lock is "keyed" with the swing of a hammer. But in practice they are kind of terrible. Keys were always difficult to insert and remove. Plus 1-2 locks per dozen would not work after being set. It's also a one-time "keying", so the money saved by buying these locks was lost the next time they needed to be rekeyed.
We'd get them working in the shop with a squirt of lubricant, but that's not going to keep them working long. We finally gave up on them and went back to the traditional removable cores as those can be rekeyed, or even rebuilt several times.
Saving money is rarely the same as buying the least expensive product.
I want to see a keyed version gutted so we can see how the shear looks
its soo dumb....whats to keep you from just sheering the pins again..just shred them so almost any key will work.
might as well make the lock out of glass
@@autopartsmonkey7992 The first pin drops into a channel, which is supposed to stop the core from being pulled out again. When he initially sheered it the core was sticking out, with all of the slots off by one. It's now been shunted forward into place. So you'd have to grip the core and pull it out again somehow, also breaking that first pin that's holding it in place.
@@ProPuke The break lines go all the way around the pin so you could probably shear them again with a sharp twist from a random key.
@@wolffang489 it's takes a hammer strike to shear the pins, even the it takes 2 shots. They are no weaker the alot of anti pick pins. If you twisting a key hard enough to shear them your gonna need a real strong key. And with a key that strong you can go around and do it to any pin in most locks.
After wacking the key in I always take a large flat head and smack the edge of the metal around the keyhole at 3 o clock and 9 o clock to bend the metal down to hold the core in better. Makes the key removal much easier. 1 or 2 out of a box of six often fail during keying. Also worn or bad copy keys will cause problems if you Key it to them.
SE Lock and Key not
God I had so many problems with them when I worked for another company other than my own which I do now. People would bring in a 20th generation copy of a key to "key up" these 1UP padlocks they would bring in with the official master tool. The official tool has a tapered shoulder and is supposed to peen down the base plate so the core can't come out but we had them fail all the time, or not work with all the copies of keys floating around etc. The shop I worked for didn't even know how to code cut keys even though they had the equipment to do so.
4:02 Master Lock's first truly unpickable lock.
I wonder if that will work, a lock with a built in key but requires another "key" to open it....
@@jovinryan62 that just means you can pick the hole where the other key is needed.
@@jovinryan62 I was just thinking about your comment a lock with a built in key but requires another key to use it .. you could possibly get some kind of prototype together where a lock cylinder had 2 security bar's but the bars acted more like sliders and the key aspect of them would be when you slide a key into the cylinder it catches the 2 bars sliding them into place before actually letting the key hit the pins or even as the key hits them and you can even split the bars on different levels so it would have more pick resistance
Just make a lock where you have to take out the key to open it.
Here in the Desert Southwest WD-40 will, in time, make any key lock unpickable, just as epoxy would.
As an old locksmith I keyed up hundreds of these. I always used triflow down in the cylinder first. After a couple of smacks it was a crap shoot as to whether or not the key would come back out. If you can turn the key both ways it would generally come out. If it would only turn one way then it almost always held the key and pliers were needed.
Amazing. That's actually a really innovative idea and to see it coming from Master Lock of all companies is remarkable.
As much as we always make fun of Master Lock, they still are a huge company that makes a ton of interesting products. I find this lock intriguing, but don't see the market or demand for it?
R.P. Rosen well lets think the casual user doesn't want a lock they have to have tools and spend time rekeying, the lock isn't for informed people who want high security and it isn't realy useful for companies because they want to have one key for several locks but they still want a durable and easy to use locks that work well
It’s mostly used by locksmiths who need a fast, low security, KA padlock.
Yeah I was going to comment. That this lock was only available to locksmiths back in the day. But LPL beat me to it. Funny because I have the tool but not the locks. I didn’t think they even existed outside of a few collectors items and especially one that wasn’t keyed yet.
These are sold at my local ace hardware
These are useful as construction locks where your chaining up scaffolding or job boxes on several floors or different job sites. Everyone on your crew has the same key so you can replace or add locks as needed. High security is not always required, you just want to keep the stuff from walking away or being borrowed randomly.
I hate setting these at work. One out of six (on average) totally fails. I set two yesterday one wouldn't turn without lifting the key. The key was new and fully seated b4 setting. And the second turned but the shackle spring had already failed.
Master lock: makes a lock for just any key
Also master lock: accidentally makes it harder to pick than their other locks
When I ran the family hardware store I sold a lot of these. The "key" to get them to set and work more smoothly is to run the key in and out several times before striking the setting tool. A heavier hammer is best like a machinists hammer (mini sledge) 2# ish. Claw hammers do not have all their mass centered on the striking surface for a clean blow.
2:31 "Where it remains for the remainder of the lock's useful life." So in the case of a Master Lock, the 15 seconds that you take to key it.
That is an interesting lock. I like how the pins end up.all serrated. I get the impression that the purpose of this lock is not to make your own key, but to key it alike with another lock and key you already have.
Master did something right. Still not a high security lock, but better than standard pins and a cheap easy way to gain another lock keyed the same as an existing lock.
Indeed. These locks work well if you want to use just one key for all of your padlocks.
This channel has taught me that all locks do is keep honest people honest.
OMG thanks for this video!
I bought that lock here in Germany 2 years ago (on ebay or so) as an easy lockpicking lock to start learning lock picking, but could never open it and was always confused about that core sticking out a little.
First I thought I was just so bad at lock picking, that I can't even open a master lock. Then after training on other locks, I thought it must be broken (due to the core sticking out a bit.
Now I know what the issue was.
Thanks a lot!
I can see taking a pin that has middle of the line bitting and then just running the procedure to snap the pins as similarly done via the initial keying procedure. Turn the key hard as if you were trying to impression a key and find a way to snap a new shear line. Maybe an impact drill with a standard screwdriver bit in the chuck?
I am BRAND NEW to this sport/hobby and it is turning out to be absolutely awesome for the brain and super entertaining! I love your videos thank you!
Love how the more you do yourself, the more secure masterlocks get.
I find it hilarious that the only remotely pick resistant Master lock was made unintentionally. Its resistance was accidental to the desire to make keyable locks cheaper.
"That was definitely not a normal Master Lock pick." Did he just define that a "normal Master Lock pick" has to happen in under 10 seconds? :D
given the relative weakness of the pins and the convenient 'screwdriver' slot provided, how well would the lock last against a big screwdriver twisting the core?
Bill Todd same thought here. Pins designed to shear off seems like a real weakness..
I'm with you guys
You would need to apply an impact twisting force that was the same as that hammer blow. Good luck if the lock isn't in a vice.
+ThrowingItAway Nah, if you have a nice lever it will probably work... Maybe a pair of pliers on the lock and a ratchet with a flathead bit. You don't need to smack it, if you apply the equal amount of torque they will snap.
My gut feeling is that it will not work ... you’d probably break the screwdriver, but it’s worth a try.
I work in the oilfield in Oklahoma and have a case of those locks never knew thay had a tool to key them I always just put the key in and hit the key with a hamer thay are stiff after keying either pulling the key out or closing the lock thay typically free up after a month of being opened and closed every day I had one lock jam up and wouldn't close I turned the lock upside down and taped it with a hamer and a piece of brass pin fell out a after that the lock worked fine also you should try freezing a master lock in liquid nitrogen and hitting it with a hamer to open it
I ran out of breath just reading this.
Here, have some of these: . . . . , , , ,
@@captainx5246 I was reading it in my head and when i read your comment I realized I hadn't breathed the whole time. lol.
Ive used 2 of these. One was destroyed trying to take the key out and Canadian tire replaced it and the second one worked just like yours. Took about 10 minutes of locking and unlocking to free the key. As far as I know the lock still works
LPL- I accidentally bought 3 of these. If you hit the toolbox they were on with an open palm, 2 of the three would pop open. Major fail!
I DO have one of these locks, as I had some older Master locks, and had a use for another one and wanted it to work with the same key as the rest of them.
I too had the same experience you had. I inserted the key, and drove the cylinder in. It landed home with one firm punch, but same as you, the key didn't want to come back out of the core. A swift jerk with a needle nose, and it came out. The key DID feel funny for a month or so for daily use but it did always work, and just as you suggested, after it "wore in" during that first month, it worked just like any of my other locks. I was worried that the initial tightness and weirdness was going to destroy my key, and it would end up not working in my other locks, but that did not happen.
The reason why the key would not come out is because the lip over the cylinder of the outside of the housing has to be bent inward to accommodate for the plug not to just come out of the housing. Just like when you have tolerance in an outward of the plug, the plug tends to retain the key. If you look at Master Lock tool it accommodates for this. It's shears the pins and also caps the outer housing of the plug at the same time
So, the extra driver pin that was in slot 1, and falls into the channel, isn’t really what’s holding the core into the lock...?
Not into locks , just watch every night to sleep over lpl relaxing voice
Same. Him and Journey to the Microcosmos
Stettafire ur sick bro no way i could sleep after watching these things😂
And boring content
"ASMR"
When I was in the military there was a lock like that except you would simply put the key in then turn it counter clockwise then a full 360 and then it would be keyed. The lock was a nightmare because unless you did the counter clockwise turn first it would permanently jam in such a way that you would never get the lock off of whatever you put it on without damaging something. We also had this strange pin in some of our locks that had a piston and spring like mechanism that would allow you to push the pin into a position that if you didn't get it just right afterwards you would break the lock the moment you tried to turn it. That lock was only used in extremely high security situations and it couldn't be have any more than one key in existence at any time. I don't know everything about that lock but I do remember that unless you had some very special keys that they didn't allow you to have outside its shroud every military locksmith I talked to about them said they couldn't be picked and they were also nearly impossible to open unless you knew everything about that specific one.
Where I work, we had a vise type tool that presses it, without the risk of getting the key stuck or mis shearing pins
In my experience, the key seems to insert/extract easier if you set the pins with one whack.
Thanks. Good to know.
its incredible that master lock can release something like this, yet cant make their cores worth a damn.
First one I have seen or heard about just crazy .for low security lock not bad design. Thanks for sharing buddy 🌟⭐⭐⭐🌟😎
Because of you I bought my first set of picks 3 weeks ago. I bought my second set this morning. An older friend I was talking to about lock picking expressed interest. He bought my clear locks n pick set, so I upgraded!
Hi LPL I have the tool for this I will send you the pictures. It uses a slow moving operation to shear the pins. I think the method you used may have burred the pins causing the issue you had removing the key.
What tool is that? The master lock tool is a punch, like my improvised tool. See: th-cam.com/video/aAf3yO88p2U/w-d-xo.html
Thanks again for the picture. I’d never seen that one. 👍
Something that would be interesting to see would be if you could re-sheer the pins using an impact driver and a bit of steel shaped like the key (the warding not the bidding) and knowing the 5UP has those pins to see if that would work.
That could also be a new 'Destructive' video series for you. "Will an impact driver open it?"
The press designed for these shears the pins smoothly where the key doesn't stick
Smacking with a hammer will work it causes the pins to bounce and can cause burrs
In that case, he'd be better off using even a 2-jaw bearing puller with that same bit to get a closer diy result rather than just a punch.
In the shop I worked in we had a fixture the lock would set in and a lever to press the core home
We usually did 60-70 of these locks at a time ( government contract)
Good point, the fact that he had to take a second wack at it probably didn't help the matter much
Master lock’s instructions indicate using a hammer. See: th-cam.com/video/aAf3yO88p2U/w-d-xo.html
And I’m surprised that a government contract allows use of these pins. That’s not good.
LockPickingLawyer City and state use these for gates in parks etc and other low security areas
I know its 2 years later but I work at a hardware store where we key these commonly for farmers. The keys actually do get stuck quite often but normally after applying either graphite lube or Kroil and fiddling with it they become easier. Also not all the pins sheer correctly some actually get jammed and makes it not work, it wont unlock but the key is still retrievable.
For a better results try making the slotted pin shorter and use the vice to press the assembly together with the pins in the vertical position
Worked as a locksmith for a very long time in college and beyond, and yeah, the 5UP was a pain in the ass. Great for stuff that wouldn't be used a ton, but needed a ton of work to get smooth.
*Master:* "We've just introduced a great new convenience feature. The key remains in the lock at all times."
I have often shear metal using brute force for personal projects, and the trick is to go hard all in one go, that way, the metal more shatters at the stressed point rather than bending and dragging
Surely if the pins are designed to sheer, couldn't you just force it with a wrench and screwdriver bit?
I'm sure it's a lot more difficult to shear in a twisting motion than with a dang hammer, but that was my first thought too
fuck you
No, fuck YOU 😂
@@xxXthekevXxx -- That's how NYers say "hello"...
My grandfather used one of these to lock his trailer for years, and it got to the point where you could easily open it with a screwdriver, much easier then using the actual key.
I hope that the sheer part of the pins isn't going down to alow that but if you insert a nother key it should work
I used to sell these in my old lock shop. I never had a key get stuck but they did need some use to smooth out the operation.
I’ve used them on sheds and we always used a steel blank a buddy made with pliers to force it open if we lost the key
From one Harry to another................
The Master lock keying tool gets wider near the tip to prevent driving the plug too far. In spite of that, keys would always get stuck and be very hard to remove if you hit the tool to hard. I admit, I messed up a few of these before I got the hang of it.
-Eric W.
The first time I tried to set one of these, the core ejected after I lifted the tool and I lost some of the springs and pins.
We key a lot of these at the hardware store. The shearing pins leave some brass debris inside the lock. A few taps with the opening facing down shakes out quite a bit of it, but until then they are often a bit rough. We've had a couple get overset by the keying process; not sure if something bends out of shape or what, but they're useless if you swing that hammer too hard.
In the long term they are actually OK ... the older they get the smother they work ... it RARE instances a heavy handed user MIGHT be able to re-shear one of the pins by using the wrong key .. IF all depths match except one ...
Had to key up 96 master #3's and I can confirm all 96 of them where gritty or sticky on the inside. I find if you use moderate pressure and one really good swing with Teflon lubrication afterwards it helps release the key easier.
I have seen these and thought they might be slightly better than a standard Master Lock, but I believe these pins are susceptible to a brute force core turn. Basically turn it into a zero bitted lock by using a screwdriver to turn/shear a zero bitted set up. Either that, or insert a bump key and twist.
Maybe...I should test it.
+LockPickingLawyer yea I'd like to see you test it if you get a chance I've always thought the same thing.
agreed also curios whether it would also be much easier to pull the core out as well due to the serrations for the core retention
Please do!
LockPickingLawyer Did you test it?
I used to use three if these at my old workplace. Two of the three locks were sticky, but the third was really easy to open.
The two that were sticky were on rooms that were used for storage of random items. Both were opened 2-3 times a week on average.
The third was on a janitor closet which was opened multiple times a day.
I worked there for 10 years and don't recall the locks every changing.
We used these kind I assume to keep keys the same as that same key also opened a few other locks in the building.
You sound like an optometrist when picking the lock-1or2, 3or4 lol all good 👍
Have keyed some of these at our hardware store. The guy who sold them to us warned me to always ask the customer for their best key to use, and then to make a copy of it to use during the "keying" process. That way if the key stuck in or was damaged, you could junk the lock make another copy and try again. Expensive, but happier customer.
3:02 - "I'm hoping this is relatively hard to pick"
_Less than 4 and a half minutes left in the video_
"...Uh oh"
To be fair, if it did take him four minutes to pick, then you could be confident that no thief would ever pick it. 😀
Relatively, for masterlock.
Very nice review, your tactics and narratives are superb.....subbed!
Thanks, and welcome to the party. 👍
I feel like if LPL robbed a bank he would leave a note saying how the lock was Faulty
I am locksmith. The failure to remove a key freely is likely a burr from the striking the core. A Teflon based lubricant might help, I prefer DuPont’s as it’s all weather as well. The application for such a lock. It would have to be entities who use padlocks often and want to key alike to existing keys without factory order. It’s master’s way of avoiding special orders, slowing down production and cost avoidance of processing such orders. Better success when violently pinning the lock by using a “rap under the key bow head” slam tool so the sheer pressure is directly down in the top of the plug pin chamber.. That and getting the right snap force down pat may help avoid burrs. I agree with other reviewers - brute force of the plug could cause a shear line compromise. I am impressed at the ingenuity and yet have a dissatisfaction in the operation.
That sums up my thoughts as well. Impressed by the ingenuity... but!
This is all just for fun, because the lock sucks.... but all the shear force is being applied LATERALLY, not ROTATIONALLY. This is probably the only saving grace to minimize distortion. Use of the fixture is essential, but they later came out with what looks like a following tool for the DIY. I refused to sell these at all, favoring the ProSeries MAster and American brand
Several of these I sprayed lock lube in, and a couple with out.... Due to the location and metal shroud that covers my hasps, I am constantly dropping these locks on the ground, as is it a blind and confined space.... the units with out lube lock, that i dropped in the dirty water, end up freezing, in a bad way, even beating the key and or the lock is an absolute pain in the a$$, lol.... But, the other units, never any issues, and in have dropped them in dirty water also... I suppose water displacement on the 40th try formulas (WD-40) may help if the lock is frozen with dirty water in winter time, but, WD-40 seems to disappear or evaporates in time... A proper lock lube I recommend...
All I saw was 'lube', 'dirty', 'water' and '@55' the first time I read.
D Hawthorne, I work at a locksmith company that's been in business for almost 40 year's. Great locks for there price, the older they get the harder they are to pick (usual rust/dirt/misc inside the chamber and ball bearings). Using just a regular brass key blank does not work. It will just break the key head off and leave the broken blank inside which is relatively easy to extract. Possibly with a steel blank have never tried.
Watching this and seeing the key stuck, "Welp. It is now UNPICKABLE! Way to go Master Lock! You made something that can't be picked!" Can't pick something when the key is still in it *taps head*
We used these when shipping certain materials, or as temporary locks when setting up work sites. For the most part, they are a way for a client to specify how the container would be locked, by sending a rep with keys from the receiving end who would set the pattern, not just of the keys but the lock positions and orientation. This would be for high volumes of materials like gold, platinum etc. in a state that was not raw, but not pristine, and usually involved 8-10 locks and a record sheet with the key codes and orientation of each lock in that grid. The rep would then return with the keys and the record sheet and wait for the load. The other use we had was when setting up work sites for demolition and/or rehabilitation. When we first set up, these worked as temporary locks until the appropriate official locks were presented so inspectors and such could access, or if the scheduled key holder was ill. Being as all the materials were metals, we were able to recycle them as specialized scrap and brass. It just made things easier, albeit pricey.
Clever, but the first thing i thought of was "how in the world is it going to shear cleanly?" and of course the key was hard to use. I wouldn't be surprised if these locks suddenly just stop working one day. I would never use this on something important where i need to open in a hurry. So basically.. on nothing. Still, clever idea.
Backwards actually - they get better over time. The materials used here aren't going to shard off into little pieces to get jammed in a fashion that will seize the mechanism, they just aren't that brittle. Since these materials are pretty soft(relatively speaking, it's not like a super soft babbit materiel or anything, but it certainly isn't hardened steel), they stay together, and it's basically the burrs, rough edges, inevitably somewhat misshapen pins that get worked out in use. Again, since this these are relatively soft materials, the rough edges, burrs, even misshapen pins will wear in with use.
However, given the way that this is designed to work, the amount of energy being exerted in a split second inside there, yea, you're going to end up with the occasional lock that's seized after 'pinning', likely caused by a badly bent pin. But, if it works from the moment you 'pin' it, you're just not realistically in any 'danger' of a core seizure than with any other lock. There just isn't any way for that to realistically happen.
They may not exactly offer 'class leading security', MasterLock... ...but, they still employ engineers that understand materials science, and this would be as simple as making a bunch of batches of these, each batch with a set of pins with a different rockwell hardness than the pins of the previous and next batches of locks, start with one number(say, 30) and work up to another(say, 45, testing every or every number in between there or something of the such); then, take your batches of locks, use them as designed, record the data: what worked fine, what took some working in, what was difficult/impossible to work without the aid of a tool, and what has seized(or something of the such). Test the batches of locks, narrow down the field, continue further testing & refining until you end up with the dead nuts correct material properties for the given purpose.
I really like the idea and certainly wouldn't be afraid to use it myself - worst case scenario, it's still just your standard entry level lock, tools will make short work of it if something were to actually happen. Hell, go to Harbor Freight and buy a $15 angle grinder if need be, cut it off, then you can trash it or throw it in a corner, doesn't much matter for $15 LOL.
I have a 6 types of these locks for years. I been going to my local Lock Smith for yrs as well. I bring him a Master padlock & get a duplicate, He asks for a spare key that in the best condition, so he can make the lock work. If you bring a older key that is worn from that older lock a spare key that was never used later may not work in the new re-keyed lock. They all work great no issues. I keep one new spare key & never use it for the purpose of making a new one when needed. This is the Key to the success for these locks to work properly.
It an interesting idea but since you break the pins to key it in the first place, whats to stop someone from forcing the core to turn by breaking them again.
You may need more force than you could apply without breaking a key or screwdriver, but it may be possible.
My shop uses these locks all the time. The most important things are to use a factory cut key and to really whack it when setting it. Two hits leaves more burrs and they will be a lot stickier, similar to yours. Overall they are decent cheap locks that have their purpose.
Thanks.
Came across a couple of these on my mothers fire bus, Had trouble using the key but picking was easy, I didn't know what "5Up" was until I googled it,
Did basic maintenance and prep work on the buses before fire season so I had the opportunity to clean up and pick various cheap locks,
When I first tried to open the 5Up with the key it refused to turn untill I lubed it with dishwashing liquid, It was all we had at the time so I did it out of desperation to get it open.
Overall I would steer clear of this lock and any other masterlock product. Cheers from Northern California.
What's a " fire bus"?
johnnykache1000 It's usually a retired school bus that's used to carry fire crews ahead of and around fires to clear fire lines around wildfires, sometimes they can be clunky and old but they get the job done.
Thanks!
johnnykache1000 ur welcome
We sell these at the locksmith shop I work at, and they definitely need to be "worked in" a lot, before being smooth. And sometimes they never really feel great
No MasterLock fan, but this is quite clever
I’ve used many of these for my customers. Once the pins are set they work pretty well. You do need to work them quite a bit until they move smoother. Problem is using worn keys to set the lock, it works but they can be a little tough to set and work smooth. The other problem is a customer with multiple key copies will have a problem with varying wear on the keys which translates to keys working great to not at all.
Why not remove the cut pins and see how well did it cut inside maybe we can learn something from it.✌
tose22 tose22 are you Indian or middle eastern
Jaime Quiambao Does it fucking matter? No.
ytmndan damn gamer destroyed 😔
Because it's a lot of work.
Hey LPL, how do you think one of these would stand up to a carbon steel key blank twist attack, like is used for a Kwikset Smartkey?
If you had a very torsionally strong tool shaped to fit the keyway, and “bitted” to push all the pins up to a point where the “serrations” were in the shear line, don’t you suppose a big, hard twist would simply break the pins again and make another shearline?
th-cam.com/video/e3lb11eVcwM/w-d-xo.html
I wonder if you could still beat this with a comb. I also wonder if you could pick this lock by “rekeying” it by forcefully turning something strong in the lock.
We sold these locks at the ace hardware that I used to work at. Almost always the keys were difficult to remove after keying them with the master lock tool. However, as you found, after working the key a few times they typically loosened up. The master lock tool that uses the ratcheting method provides a less violent keying experience and probably does not produce as many shears and burrs on the inside of the lock mechanism. Either way works though!
My gut feeling is that any sentence ending with "...so it should be more of a challenge than a normal MasterLock." is most probably true.
"We're going down to the garage"
Probably not the first words a brand new lock wants to hear lol
I work for a harbor that uses these to secure boxes of bumpers and such. Makes it so you can match the locks up to a common key. The long term durability is NOT good, and as they wear out, they become MUCH less secure (well, less secure at the keyway, we all know how insecure the masterlock design is anyway). They are also VERY rough on keys. People's keys sometimes wear down from use in the newer locks in a matter of weeks. I have also witnessed a few of these that, for whatever reason, just simply fell apart and spilled the pins all over the ground.
Good to know. 👍
On the shoreline, I would recommend Hercules or Wilson Bohannon. TOTALLY non-ferrous, or with Stainless Steel shackle, they last and last and last.
If it just falls apart, its likely that it was matched to a key with a very extreme bitting on cut one, leaving a very small piece of pin for the retention groove. Over time or with rough use such as being repeatedly jostled and worked to get the key out, the pin either wore down or the core was simply pushed or pulled past the tolerance and the pin slipped the groove andnrhe core came out of the mech.
@@metamorphicorder Hm. If that pin segment falls part way into that groove at the front, could it be bounced or tapped back into the shell if the whole thing is turned upside down?
Used to work at a hardware store where we regularly keyed these for customers. Never used a hammer, we had a vise-like mechanism you would sit the lock in with the key and that tubular tool. Then just turn it really quickly and it would jam that tool into the lock. We would regularly have keys that wouldn't come out of the lock at all so we would make a copy of the original before punching the lock.
I wonder if the pins can be sheared by turning the key with sufficient force.
I wonder if a slide hammer could be used to open it.
That looks like the lock our school had issued at the start of the school year. They also had a hard time opening it up when a person had lost their key. As a result, they removed all of those locks and issued combination locks to all students. I still remember that combination some 50 years after the time it was handed to me. Right 2 times to 30, left back to 48, and right to 6
could you please try the nut spliter on the laminated body
I have. It doesn’t work well.
ok thanks for trying
I maintain a mobile home park that has a pool area, with a fence around it that we lock up at night, and sometimes because of storms here in Florida. The locks that were there before started failing, so we replaced them with these locks because we didn't want to distribute new keys to all the different maintenance people that need to get in after hours. We replaced these locks about 3 years ago. With them being opened 2-4 times a day and being left out in the weather/rain a few inches off the ground, they have held up quite well. I have found one oddity, 1 of the 2 lock's key will rotate past the normal stop point and will rotate 360 degrees. It will try to bind up only if you turn too far.
Nice video! Never seen this system.
Used to sale these and key these all the time. Definitely have had the key sticking issue. Best way to minimize it is to turn the lock so that the pins are up before keying. You also want to rake the key through the un keyed lock a dozen times or so before keying. Was awesome to finally see how the guts work on these bad boys.
"...so it should be more of a challenge than a normal masterlock."
...so not much 🤣
We used to sell quite a few of these when I was at my old shop, primarily to commercial customers who needed a lot of cheap, semi disposable, low security padlocks keyed all alike company wide. It actually makes a lot of sense in that instance, since the cheap master padlocks can't usually be ordered to a specific key after an initial order, unless you're buying A LOT of them direct from Master Lock.
And YES, they DO almost always required quite a bit of "breaking in" when first pinned... I found that out when we had to do 50 of them for a customer and the boss "volunteered" me for the task to "learn the lock" as he put it.... A fresh code cut key with no wear works better than a key that already has a fair amount of wear (as the customer's key almost always does in these situation)... but for almost every one I'd have to work it with pliers a few dozen times before it would "wear in". It took virtually all day to do all 50 because of this. (and for the record, we did have the tool from Master Lock, so home/shopmade tools don't mitigate it)
Maybe the keys can't be cut very aggressive.
These pins will cover all factory cuts... it’s intended to key a new lock to an existing one.
I used to sell and key these for people. The trick is one sharp strike to set the pins. If you tap it multiple times it seems to cause the pins to not shear cleanly and causes more binding than when done with one hit. All of them felt gritty and the keys did not want to go in or come out easily but never anything suck like you had.
no better than any other number 5 master lock.
this 5up is for those who need to keep a number of locks in use and do not want a different key for each lock, sure you can buy "sets" but future locks bought much easier this way.
i had bought a couple of them and was not impressed. after years of use i do not know one from the other.
They used to offer a Residential Knobset that was similar. It did have a clip to retain the plug (it is NOT a "core" it's a plug)
It was place in a special vise which you turned until the pins broke. They stopped selling those around 1996 when Schlage bought them and then discontinued them. I very seldom run into them any longer. When they are rekeyed, the entire pinstack is dumped and rebuilt.