Good review. FYI, regarding the art and graphic design issue mentioned in the video, per the Kickstarter page the art and graphic design are currently undergoing a complete overhaul from the prototype look that's been at conventions and is on the main Kickstarter page. So hopefully that will make the game actually look a bit snazzier (not that how it looks is all that important to be honest given the type of game it is.) For people who have played Werewolf, there are three key difference in the TLDR - - No Player Elimination. If you die you lose your special ability but are still in the game, able to talk to everybody normally and still have one vote that game you can use on an execution. (Versus Werewolf where if you die you can't do anything but watch.) - Everybody has a unique character. There are no vanilla villagers. - Some characters allow the Storyteller to lie to players. The Drunk and Poisoner that are mentioned in the video are a couple of examples. Another example is the Lunatic who is a Good player who incorrectly believes they are the Demon. (The Storyteller wakes them up every night to pick someone to attack, then the Storyteller secretly tells the Demon who the Lunatic wants to kill and the Demon can kill whoever they like. Usually the Demon will kill the person the Lunatic wants to keep the delusion going.)
One thing to remember with price points is while fancy compents are nice. The play testing, writing, and creation process of the game also has costs associated with it. Sure it can be a print and play but the creative process/rules etc all have costs associated. Its for sure a game that I feel is reasonable for a gaming group to pool funds.
To add to the price point discussion, I made my own print-and-play version where I bought the felt and wooden tokens from online/local hobby stores, reused a game box I didn't care about and the price came to about $40 USD just for the 1ST SET (aka Trouble Brewing). I have not begun to make the tokens and the helper tokens or the player sheets for the other two sets ("Bad Moon Rising" and "Sects & Violets") yet. I cannot stress how important the Grimoire is and all of the helper tokens to making sure the storyteller doesn't mess up the game. I want to mention that I also backed the kickstarter and loved the game so much that I made a PNP just to hold me over till the game arives. I run games with it at least once a month and it has gotten a lot of milage. Cant wait for the full game to arrive!
Great review guys, I can't wait to watch the game play out, I feel like Wheels trying to be crafty will be fun! Not to tell you your business, but one thing that's very worth noting about Blood on the Clocktower that didn't get mentioned is the role of dead people. Whereas in other hidden role games once you die you basically just have to sit and wait or get a cup of tea or whatever, in BOTC you remain a part of (often very important part of) the game, contributing to discussions and votes and everything, so that's a major difference this game has over other games like it.
Coincidentally, I put together a vague version for folks at work today, and we largely loved it. It fixed the issue that a few people had with werewolves where you can get killed super early in the game. As a story teller, I loved it, and everyone seemed to have fun.
I'm tempted to try if it's feasible. What did you do for the storyteller's grimoire? I feel like I'd have to either make a word document I edit on a tablet (and hide it) or just deal with how annoying using tape/velcro/whatever is, or worst case just write it all out on paper and keep tossing it. (But I'd have to pretend to write stuff which could be problematic.)
Yeah, they are redoing the art for the release. The price point is high, but there are A LOT of tokens with it. There is an unboxing video on their youtube showing everything you get with it.
On kickstarter there are PDF's for the rulebook and roles lists with abilities, so i guess despite the steep price (with shipping to my country 145 USD, a LOT here), i guess you could do some kind of print an play
@@HariGtt Yeah, very relatable. Currently, I'm trying (emphasis on trying) to do board game nights in my town at my sister's bar (where I also work) and basically my plan is to MAYBE do a horribly painful PNP of this game just to gauge interest (if I can find a group of people to try it on a game night) and if I can get enough people regularly coming in to play that'd be interested in playing the real deal, I'm going to see if I can split costs with the bar (I pay a majority since I'm keeping it) and get it pre-ordered through Kickstarter. Just don't know how I'd PNP it without those handy felt pieces. I guess I could waste a lot of paper and just write on it and scratch stuff out as I go. Edit: Phrasing.
@@kyleb8117 Games nights are hard to start. However, with time, and people good will, they pick up eventually. I help organizing some in my college (twice per semester), and the way we managed to get money to get new games (besides those provided by participants/organizers), and replace the ones used up/broken is to have a small "donations" box to that effect. I don't know if that helps you, because we can do it because we are a "non profit" games night, and all the profits are to the CS students organization, to be able to buy materias for other stuff, and don't know how it adapts to a bar games night.
Played this at PAX Aus, and it was interesting. But did don't think it's worth the price myself, and I love hidden role games. The resistance: Avalon is in fact one of my favourite games. It just has too many barriers of entry, you need a lot of players, they all need to know the rules (everyone having their own character adds even more than the simple werewolf on which it's based). And given the role of the storyteller, the game lives and dies on their skill to make it interesting. I'd love to support this game. Love seeing Aussies doing well in this scene I love so, but just can't justify it in the end. If this were an app rather than a big box, I feel it'd be better than it is now and far cheaper.
I'm absolutely interested in a more complicated, deeper version of Werewolf, but I can't act like that price isn't a big factor in whether or not I'd actually pick this up. Looking forward to the Let's Play to see the game in action.
Alex! I can detail why your first game ended in the first day phase. *Ahem* The Investigator Chris said out of Mario and Nick one of them was evil. Michelle as the Empath said both people next to her (Mario and Julian) were good. Voted off Nick (who was the Scarlett Witch). The Chef Emma said there were 2 pairs of evil who were sat together. Nick was sat next to Julian and Dom. Dom claimed Soldier as Russ claimed Soldier. Voted off Dom (who was evil) and the Outsider Mak shot Russ who turned out to be the demon, which ended the game as the Scarlett Witch was also dead. Phew! :D I'm really sad in that I detailed this down cos I thought it was mad! ~Michelle
Price point maybe an issue, but as someone who lives in Australia I can honestly tell you it will probably cost them alot more than what they're selling it for to produce and post it out internationally. I do freelance illustration and half my prices are eaten up by postage fees, so yeah I can see why it's expensive. Actually, usually games from other countries are expensive to import here so the reverse being true shouldn't be a surprise anyway.
Played a beta version of this a couple of years ago with my gaming group and it was good fun, but pretty clear the price is a bit wild. The art looks like it's stayed the same and I'm glad they're updating all that.
if you'd like a video game version of this, or if the price is prohibitive, there's town of salem which is very similar. virtually everyone in each game has a role and it's a lot of fun
Well I'm suitably confused. Looking forward to seeing how it actually plays to clear up some of that, but sadly that price point has deemed it forever out of my reach. Do they really need to put more barriers in the way for a game that already requires getting quite a lot of people in one place at the same time for several hours?
@@nightcatarts I haven't seen an explicit P&P version myself, but the full rules and roles are available through the Kickstarter page, and you could mock up the rest fairly easily. What you're paying for with the production version is mostly the box/book, which looks fantastically useful, but also very expensive...
I've never heard of Ultimate Werewolf until I'd watched your first video on it and it reminded me of Town of Salem--which I've played on and off before--and this seems like a closer comparison. Neat.jpg
Woof. I like the concept, but that’s a hell of a price point for a game whose player count really makes it sound like a “couple times a year” thing. I see the appeal if you’ve got a large group that gets Werewolf & Resistance to the table so often they want some added complexity to keep it interesting, but I have to imagine that’s a pretty niche market. As it is we only get around to those (simpler & more accessible, it sounds like) games a few times a year, they’re still plenty strategically interesting, and at $20 or so, still a perfectly good value even if you do only play occasionally.
Looks interesting. However that price point is too much. Taking shipping out the equation, it's still $79 for the game. It might be a step up on Ultimate Werewolf, but that game cost me £15 ($18) and still has enough roles to add some interest and complexity in a large group. I can't marry up the difference in price and see how it's worth it. Will check out your let's play though and see if that changes anything
The phrase 'Blood on the Clock Tower' basically defines the boss fight against Lady Maria in Bloodborne, so I'm expecting something akin to that here. Edit: Oh well.
Those who unknowingly hinder the pursuit of Daemons are just as much foot soldiers of Chaos as those who do so willingly. Both are the product of wanton foolishness and must be stomped out. This is your thirty-third request to pay Dark Heresy First Edition.
The Kickstarter has links to all the rulebooks, so the only things you're missing are the box, the tokens, and the quick reference sheets, all of which you could mock-up yourself.
They talk about the feasibility of a PNP (and the costs) in the Kickstarter and I'm inclined to believe them based on my experience with making PNP games.
@@kyleb8117 You can get felt and poker chips pretty cheaply. It'd be a lot of work to assemble - maybe 100 tokens to glue felt to the backs of, and apply a suitable image to the front of, plus lining a suitable box - but the cost of materials would be maybe a fifth the cost (with shipping) of the full game. And that's if you don't decide to adopt a different solution - such as assigning playing cards to the roles and creating a lookup table as part of the reference sheet. It wouldn't be the same as having a proper, professionally made set, but it wouldn't be unrealistic either.
@@rmsgrey Update on that: I decided to bite the bullet and make one and I'm most of the way through it and it was pretty reasonable in costs...I think around $20 or $30. Had to custom make the reminder tokens and I'm trying to dig around to find images of the "Your minions are..." type tokens to turn into playing cards for the P&P. Also should probably figure out a divided tuckbox to make. It's a really good feeling when you put the finished pieces on the felt and test it out. (I used cheap, heavy poker chips and my old glue gun.)
Good review. FYI, regarding the art and graphic design issue mentioned in the video, per the Kickstarter page the art and graphic design are currently undergoing a complete overhaul from the prototype look that's been at conventions and is on the main Kickstarter page. So hopefully that will make the game actually look a bit snazzier (not that how it looks is all that important to be honest given the type of game it is.)
For people who have played Werewolf, there are three key difference in the TLDR -
- No Player Elimination. If you die you lose your special ability but are still in the game, able to talk to everybody normally and still have one vote that game you can use on an execution. (Versus Werewolf where if you die you can't do anything but watch.)
- Everybody has a unique character. There are no vanilla villagers.
- Some characters allow the Storyteller to lie to players. The Drunk and Poisoner that are mentioned in the video are a couple of examples. Another example is the Lunatic who is a Good player who incorrectly believes they are the Demon. (The Storyteller wakes them up every night to pick someone to attack, then the Storyteller secretly tells the Demon who the Lunatic wants to kill and the Demon can kill whoever they like. Usually the Demon will kill the person the Lunatic wants to keep the delusion going.)
One thing to remember with price points is while fancy compents are nice. The play testing, writing, and creation process of the game also has costs associated with it.
Sure it can be a print and play but the creative process/rules etc all have costs associated.
Its for sure a game that I feel is reasonable for a gaming group to pool funds.
To add to the price point discussion, I made my own print-and-play version where I bought the felt and wooden tokens from online/local hobby stores, reused a game box I didn't care about and the price came to about $40 USD just for the 1ST SET (aka Trouble Brewing). I have not begun to make the tokens and the helper tokens or the player sheets for the other two sets ("Bad Moon Rising" and "Sects & Violets") yet. I cannot stress how important the Grimoire is and all of the helper tokens to making sure the storyteller doesn't mess up the game. I want to mention that I also backed the kickstarter and loved the game so much that I made a PNP just to hold me over till the game arives. I run games with it at least once a month and it has gotten a lot of milage. Cant wait for the full game to arrive!
I think the high price is a function of it being such a large group game and will probably mostly be collectively purchased
Great review guys, I can't wait to watch the game play out, I feel like Wheels trying to be crafty will be fun! Not to tell you your business, but one thing that's very worth noting about Blood on the Clocktower that didn't get mentioned is the role of dead people. Whereas in other hidden role games once you die you basically just have to sit and wait or get a cup of tea or whatever, in BOTC you remain a part of (often very important part of) the game, contributing to discussions and votes and everything, so that's a major difference this game has over other games like it.
Coincidentally, I put together a vague version for folks at work today, and we largely loved it. It fixed the issue that a few people had with werewolves where you can get killed super early in the game. As a story teller, I loved it, and everyone seemed to have fun.
I'm tempted to try if it's feasible. What did you do for the storyteller's grimoire? I feel like I'd have to either make a word document I edit on a tablet (and hide it) or just deal with how annoying using tape/velcro/whatever is, or worst case just write it all out on paper and keep tossing it. (But I'd have to pretend to write stuff which could be problematic.)
He came to my work a couple of weeks ago to do this and it was so good! We are actually bringing him back to run a personal session for a day
Nicely done review! As soon as its out, how about a Let’s Play with the lineup from Eurogamer and OutsideXBox? 😍
Oh yeah.
yes please...this.
Yeah, they are redoing the art for the release. The price point is high, but there are A LOT of tokens with it. There is an unboxing video on their youtube showing everything you get with it.
On kickstarter there are PDF's for the rulebook and roles lists with abilities, so i guess despite the steep price (with shipping to my country 145 USD, a LOT here), i guess you could do some kind of print an play
Just keep in mind the Storyteller's role is going to be a pain in the butt without those felt lined pieces.
@@kyleb8117 Yup, the prop set seems very usefull, but, you know, the part of "if you have coin" of "Khajiit has wares"
@@HariGtt Yeah, very relatable.
Currently, I'm trying (emphasis on trying) to do board game nights in my town at my sister's bar (where I also work) and basically my plan is to MAYBE do a horribly painful PNP of this game just to gauge interest (if I can find a group of people to try it on a game night) and if I can get enough people regularly coming in to play that'd be interested in playing the real deal, I'm going to see if I can split costs with the bar (I pay a majority since I'm keeping it) and get it pre-ordered through Kickstarter. Just don't know how I'd PNP it without those handy felt pieces. I guess I could waste a lot of paper and just write on it and scratch stuff out as I go.
Edit: Phrasing.
@@kyleb8117 Games nights are hard to start. However, with time, and people good will, they pick up eventually. I help organizing some in my college (twice per semester), and the way we managed to get money to get new games (besides those provided by participants/organizers), and replace the ones used up/broken is to have a small "donations" box to that effect.
I don't know if that helps you, because we can do it because we are a "non profit" games night, and all the profits are to the CS students organization, to be able to buy materias for other stuff, and don't know how it adapts to a bar games night.
@@HariGtt No doubt. It's extra tough here, but I'm hoping it builds up.
This sounds amazing!!!
It is!
Played this at PAX Aus, and it was interesting. But did don't think it's worth the price myself, and I love hidden role games. The resistance: Avalon is in fact one of my favourite games.
It just has too many barriers of entry, you need a lot of players, they all need to know the rules (everyone having their own character adds even more than the simple werewolf on which it's based). And given the role of the storyteller, the game lives and dies on their skill to make it interesting.
I'd love to support this game. Love seeing Aussies doing well in this scene I love so, but just can't justify it in the end. If this were an app rather than a big box, I feel it'd be better than it is now and far cheaper.
Enjoyed watching Wheels interact with someone who is not Johnny.
I'm absolutely interested in a more complicated, deeper version of Werewolf, but I can't act like that price isn't a big factor in whether or not I'd actually pick this up. Looking forward to the Let's Play to see the game in action.
Alex! I can detail why your first game ended in the first day phase.
*Ahem*
The Investigator Chris said out of Mario and Nick one of them was evil. Michelle as the Empath said both people next to her (Mario and Julian) were good. Voted off Nick (who was the Scarlett Witch). The Chef Emma said there were 2 pairs of evil who were sat together. Nick was sat next to Julian and Dom. Dom claimed Soldier as Russ claimed Soldier. Voted off Dom (who was evil) and the Outsider Mak shot Russ who turned out to be the demon, which ended the game as the Scarlett Witch was also dead. Phew! :D
I'm really sad in that I detailed this down cos I thought it was mad! ~Michelle
When was this recorded? Because the Kickstarter ended in April 2019.
You can still back the game. I ordered mine 2 weeks ago.
Price point maybe an issue, but as someone who lives in Australia I can honestly tell you it will probably cost them alot more than what they're selling it for to produce and post it out internationally. I do freelance illustration and half my prices are eaten up by postage fees, so yeah I can see why it's expensive. Actually, usually games from other countries are expensive to import here so the reverse being true shouldn't be a surprise anyway.
Played a beta version of this a couple of years ago with my gaming group and it was good fun, but pretty clear the price is a bit wild. The art looks like it's stayed the same and I'm glad they're updating all that.
if you'd like a video game version of this, or if the price is prohibitive, there's town of salem which is very similar. virtually everyone in each game has a role and it's a lot of fun
10/10 would recommend Wheels new 'do to a friend! 😍😍
Alex wearing my home team makes me happy. Go Jags.
Played this game at PAX East. Definitely an interesting experience. Never been so happy to be a "Virgin". Won us the game.
Well I'm suitably confused. Looking forward to seeing how it actually plays to clear up some of that, but sadly that price point has deemed it forever out of my reach. Do they really need to put more barriers in the way for a game that already requires getting quite a lot of people in one place at the same time for several hours?
You can always make a print and play
@@darthmegan4237 Oh they offer one for this game? That's not so bad; I thought they were only doing the fancy factory made one.
@@nightcatarts I haven't seen an explicit P&P version myself, but the full rules and roles are available through the Kickstarter page, and you could mock up the rest fairly easily. What you're paying for with the production version is mostly the box/book, which looks fantastically useful, but also very expensive...
@@rmsgrey Yea.. I kind of wish there was some middle ground, but it's not like I have enough friends to play it anyway.
Alex is a jags fan? DUVAAAAALLLL.
Please play this with Outside Xbox and Outside Xtra! The other storylines have really cool mechanics. Pale Moon Rising is particularly tense
You guys could team up with eg and oxboxtra for a bigger game :)
Cool, the shipping's only $25! Usually shipping's about $40 to NZ. I suppose it's because it's made in Aussie and possibly printed in US or Canada.
I've never heard of Ultimate Werewolf until I'd watched your first video on it and it reminded me of Town of Salem--which I've played on and off before--and this seems like a closer comparison. Neat.jpg
That's true, the way in which everyone has a role does seem quite reminiscent of Town of Salem
Woof. I like the concept, but that’s a hell of a price point for a game whose player count really makes it sound like a “couple times a year” thing. I see the appeal if you’ve got a large group that gets Werewolf & Resistance to the table so often they want some added complexity to keep it interesting, but I have to imagine that’s a pretty niche market. As it is we only get around to those (simpler & more accessible, it sounds like) games a few times a year, they’re still plenty strategically interesting, and at $20 or so, still a perfectly good value even if you do only play occasionally.
I think this title could use a revision.
Looks interesting. However that price point is too much. Taking shipping out the equation, it's still $79 for the game. It might be a step up on Ultimate Werewolf, but that game cost me £15 ($18) and still has enough roles to add some interest and complexity in a large group. I can't marry up the difference in price and see how it's worth it. Will check out your let's play though and see if that changes anything
AKA "150€ Werewolf"
The phrase 'Blood on the Clock Tower' basically defines the boss fight against Lady Maria in Bloodborne, so I'm expecting something akin to that here.
Edit: Oh well.
Those who unknowingly hinder the pursuit of Daemons are just as much foot soldiers of Chaos as those who do so willingly. Both are the product of wanton foolishness and must be stomped out. This is your thirty-third request to pay Dark Heresy First Edition.
Massively overpriced. Could use a Print&Play version
The Kickstarter has links to all the rulebooks, so the only things you're missing are the box, the tokens, and the quick reference sheets, all of which you could mock-up yourself.
They talk about the feasibility of a PNP (and the costs) in the Kickstarter and I'm inclined to believe them based on my experience with making PNP games.
@@kyleb8117 You can get felt and poker chips pretty cheaply. It'd be a lot of work to assemble - maybe 100 tokens to glue felt to the backs of, and apply a suitable image to the front of, plus lining a suitable box - but the cost of materials would be maybe a fifth the cost (with shipping) of the full game. And that's if you don't decide to adopt a different solution - such as assigning playing cards to the roles and creating a lookup table as part of the reference sheet. It wouldn't be the same as having a proper, professionally made set, but it wouldn't be unrealistic either.
@@rmsgrey I'll definitely look into the cost of felt lining chips. I like the idea. I might even have some old poker chips lying around.
@@rmsgrey Update on that: I decided to bite the bullet and make one and I'm most of the way through it and it was pretty reasonable in costs...I think around $20 or $30. Had to custom make the reminder tokens and I'm trying to dig around to find images of the "Your minions are..." type tokens to turn into playing cards for the P&P. Also should probably figure out a divided tuckbox to make. It's a really good feeling when you put the finished pieces on the felt and test it out. (I used cheap, heavy poker chips and my old glue gun.)